Back in 2012 we said Add Ons wasnt needed, but did we change our views since then?

Digging back through the archives I found this old 2012 thread on MMO Champion, titled "Why Addons are NOT Needed in Guildwars 2"

I included a picture of the OP in that thread in case the old post doesnt work on your browser.

But looking back on this, whats your thoughts now? were we a little naive back then due to the hype? Anything you still agree with from back then?

One person's opinion; most of the mods mentioned are still not needed.The one thing that changed was the addition of Raids; and now we have a DPS meter (3rd party).

This was made by a player? If it was a dev, that would be more telling about the intended direction of the game.

Not needed =/= not wanted.

I don't think addons are necessary outside of tracking performance. However, I have always wanted 100% customization in regards to the UI. I probably wouldn't be playing this game right now if not for ArcDPS's absolutely god-tier build templates.

I really don't want this to turn into WoW where there's so many add-ons it basically plays the game for you.

@Vyrulisse.1246 said:I really don't want this to turn into WoW where there's so many add-ons it basically plays the game for you.

well that never existed in WoW since thats called a bot and thats not legal in that game.

@"Knighthonor.4061" said:Digging back through the archives I found this old 2012 thread on MMO Champion, titled "Why Addons are NOT Needed in Guildwars 2"

I included a picture of the OP in that thread in case the old post doesnt work on your browser.

But looking back on this, whats your thoughts now? were we a little naive back then due to the hype? Anything you still agree with from back then?

So let's go by this point by point.

Nope:

• UI Customization Mod: Not Needed because ANET has developed a Customizable UI at Launch (Moving UI Frames / Size (Confirmed)

To this day, I really want more direct control over the user interface. While it's more minor in GW2 compared to other games, I really want complete control over the UI. Things like where I want my health bar. Where I want my target's health bar. Can I please be able to see my target's target?

*Recount DMG Meters Mod: Could be somewhat useful for testing DMG Only but not overly desireable or needed in Guildwars 2. Boss fights are not static infact boss fights are more about positioning and evasion then direct damage. Since There is no Tanks and threat is random it wouldnt be fair to base a players performance by his DPS alone, Because in a 5 man The Elementalist for example might find himself constantly gaining agro. Which means he must evade and position himself correctly to keep himself alive and prevent unwanted dmg to occure within the group, This also means his DPS would be lower on that paticular boss fight. So with this new Combat Style Mechanic Recount would be trying to use a blunt stone hammer to test computers performance. Too many moving parts to be an effective tool.

This point ultimately had no understanding of GW2's combat system and how it would ultimately end up playing out. DPS meters are important and powerful tools. It helps you understand which party members are carrying their weight. It helps you understand when yourself or others who are good are using the wrong tool for the job.

And while the blog post didn't address it, build templates ended up being a desperately needed mod that filled a whole Arenanet still haven't been able to address yet.

Iffy:

• Deadly Boss Mods: Not needed Because Deadly Boss mods is built into the Game. When Engaged in a Boss fight you can see what abilities the boss performs and since boss mechanics are heavly based on mobility DBM is almost useless in most situations. Also Since Bosses Scale in Difficulty and aquire new abilities based on the group dynamic DBM wouldnt be effective.
• Quest Helper Mod: No Quest Logs = No Quest Helper Needed.

GW2 TacO ended up being both of these mods combined. TacO is used by less experienced raid groups for encounters like Sabetha, where it can really help newer players keep track of where the next cannons will spawn. It also basically provides markers for achievements, current events, those sorts of things. So even though there is less need for a Deadly Boss Mod, it still has some uses. And even though there is less need for a dedicated quest log, certain achievements (Which are often GW2's equivalent to quests anyway) are made much easier with quest markers. And without TacO, it just makes Dulfy that much more of an important resource for the community.

These ended up being accurate:

• Recount Healing meters Mod: Not Needed since thier is no Healing Specific class you dont need healing meters your life is in your own hands, You dieing is the groups Recount because it means you didnt do your job. So filtering out the baddies is easy.
• Healbot (Clicky Mod): Not needed since classes dont have a target other heal ability anways. 80% of Healing abilities are self heals then a few classes / classes with trait upgrades have AoE Healing or Positioning Healing I.E. ( Lightwell ) type abilities.
• Combat Log Mod: Not needed because Guildwars 2 has combat Logs built into the game.
• Threat Meters Mod: Again No Tanks / No Threat Generation means not needed.

So what happened? Well that was one guy's opinion and he was wrong about many of his assumptions. Heck, even for things that don't have mods but are still useful resources like world event timer.s

@Knighthonor.4061 said:

@"Vyrulisse.1246" said:I really don't want this to turn into WoW where there's so many add-ons it basically plays the game for you.

Yep, although at the very start it was possible to write addons that could control your character Blizzard quickly removed that functionality from their API.

I'd love something like WeakAuras in GW2, custom alerts to tell you when buffs have faded, skills have come off cooldown or ICDs on runes or sigils have run out.

That said I don't think "we" said they weren't needed. "We" weren't asked.

I think the only function I've really wished for which we don't have is the ability to customise the UI more - being able to move things around more than we can or resize elements of the UI. It would be great to be able to control what appears in the list down the right side of the screen. I don't mind whether that's via an addon or the base game (although I'd prefer it to be in the base game).

I do use mods or addons or whatever you want to call them in other games, but usually only when something is bothering me enough that it seems worth going to find a fix for it, not just to make the game easier or to tell me what to do, and mainly in single-player games without on-going development where the chances of something being fixed or added after release are pretty much zero. Given the option I'd prefer to see solutions to those 'pain' points added to the actual game rather than rely on a 3rd party to do it.

You know, a person (Hellspawn) made some guesses ~6 months before the release of the game. He/she really had no idea what would occur down the line. The first guess certainly didn't turn out to be accurate; not sure why it was thought to be 'confirmed'.

The only 'mod', if one can call it that, I seem to have had needed/wanted is GW2Efficiency. I think my friend uses TacO, or something like that.

I think the answer is obvious. We actually do more than abuse the crap out of it, we actually use it to shun players, kick them from groups, and make them realize they're playing their classes incorrectly and need to spend three more months practicing things they already know about.

@Pifil.5193 said:

@Knighthonor.4061 said:

@"Vyrulisse.1246" said:I really don't want this to turn into WoW where there's so many add-ons it basically plays the game for you.

No no, I meant the type that tell you about mechanics happening before they happen, where to go etc... those exist to this day. That's what I meant by "basically playing the game for you" not literally.

The game was far less complex than now. We have actual builds, actual rotations, thousand smaller things to keep track off. Addons aren't exactly necessary, but they sure can be very convenient.

A personal DPS info (that only shows the player’s own DPS) would greatly help players improve their builds and I would really like one added in the game. I pick weapons, skills, and talents that I find to be the most fun/convenient for me, even if they’re not the best DPS. However, there are situations where I like all the talents just the same and I would like to simply choose whatever gives me the best DPS. Without a personal DPS info, there’s often no way to know which talent is better.

I’m currently using the DPS bot in the raid area, but it’s lacking. I don’t know which of my abilities or conditions are doing the most damage, therefore, have no idea which abilities or conditions I should boost. Since the bot doesn’t attack, it’s useless for any damage that triggers upon being attacked. Also, I have to go to that area to check my DPS, rather than having that info available to me at all times when I’m playing in real environments.

Many players don’t want a full DPS meter because they don’t want it to be used by poor sports to attack other players with. A personal DPS info won’t show others’ DPS, so there’s no worry about that type of toxicity.

I actually installed arcDPS for the first time a few days ago, and it has opened my eyes about what is effective and what isn't in certain scenarios. It changed the way I play for the better.

I'd like ArenaNet to facilitate such addons through an official API like what WoW uses to run its addons through, which tells us that any addons running that way are safe to use and not bannable. That's always a fear of mine using an addon installed through a .dll like arcDPS.

Still not needed.

Are they needed? No. Are they nice to have? Yes. Exactly how it was six years ago.

Add Ons are definitely not needed in GW2, and they’re not needed in WoW either. The only thing that makes add ons “needed” is the community thinking they are because people need a crutch like DBM to help them play and notice stuff.

Personally, I’m fine with people having their DPS meters, and UI customization (which should be baseline honestly) but I think that should be the limit. There’s no need for more than that.

Like I tell my kid, there is a difference between WANT and NEED. If these things were needed in GW2, then they would have been shipped with it.

They can be useful for people who care but overall they are pointless for most of the game's PvE content and some people are far too toxic about it for my tastes so I don't even want to play with them.

Moving UI frames and sizing them is not a whole lot of customization... Still think this would be cool, and in some cases particularly useful.

Damage tracking, I won't anything beyond we could use better support.

This post covers some of the top most popular mods for WoW. So if the argument is against add-ons, would it be useful to cover more than just popular mods and instead the principals and system-level benefits of add-on support?

I still don't use addons in GW2 and hate MMOs that heavily rely on addons (ESO). You have to update them all the time and if you don't do that, they can crash the game. And sometimes you can't update them because the creator stopped working on the addon. 3rd party things are always a pain in the Charr tail.

@Vyrulisse.1246 said:I really don't want this to turn into WoW where there's so many add-ons it basically plays the game for you.

Then you have little to worry, the only legal addons collect and distribute information, or let you toggle mounts easier. And you’re free not to use any. ArcDPS is useful for raiders, but not necessary/required in the slightest

Addons are prob the best thing that an mmo could have.

@Mea.5491 said:I still don't use addons in GW2 and hate MMOs that heavily rely on addons (ESO). You have to update them all the time and if you don't do that, they can crash the game. And sometimes you can't update them because the creator stopped working on the addon. 3rd party things are always a pain in the Charr tail.

Twitches mod manager auto-updates all add-ons when you boot up. That could be implemented quite easily.

Creators are essentially doing it for free... Can ya blame them for not mainting a codebase 5 years later when it's simply a pet project they're moving on from? Just be grateful you had access... Or doate, make it worth their time because you found it useful.