PvP Video: Non-Meta Power Mirage — Guild Wars 2 Forums

PvP Video: Non-Meta Power Mirage

Tiah.3091Tiah.3091 Member ✭✭✭

Hello, guys!
I know what you think: "power mirage, mantras, stealth and oneshots, what else there is to see", right?
Wrong.
Personally, I don't like the aesthetics of torch for power build (despite admitting, how effective in fact it is). Yet, being a little autistic, still I think of torch as of condi weapon. And I don't like condi that much (probably for no particular reason).

So, started looking for a weapon for the power build. Tried focus, pistol, off-hand sword. And, to my surprise, I found, that off-hand sword is not that bad of a weapon, as they say it is.
At least I could immediately say, that I absolutely enjoy the aesthetics. Having that "17th century duelling" touch and all =)
Illusionary Riposte seemed like an exceptional ability, with versatility of a daze, block, evade, a huge spike of damage and very short cooldown.
The Illusionary Swordsman, on the other hand, seemed clunky as kitten. Anything more mobile, than a chair could just simply walk away from it. Yet the damage (if everything hits) was absolutely superb.
So, I initially thought of stunning the target, so it couldn't avoid the swordsman. But mesmers don't have that much stuns. Especially now, after Confounding Suggestions was nerfed.
But then I remembered about the trait, called Chaotic Interruption. Which provides guaranteed Immobilize on interrupt. Without GCD. Which means, you can STACK IMMOB.
Which is a pretty big deal, after all: because roots in GW2 not only prevent you from moving, but also from dodging.
Which means, target in Immob can't avoid swordsman. Unless it blows some serious condi cleanse

Well, about that. There's one additional psychological factor, which I think might be important: Immobilize is a condi debuff. It doesn't have a distinct tell, like stun, for example. And people probably not considering it "dangerous", or expecting it to fall off soon. Because, REALLY, have you ever seen a root, lasting longer than 2 seconds? Especially FROM A MESMER, LOL?
Root is indeed a very short condition and people know that. And ignore it, not wasting a precious condi cleanse. And that's where they are wrong.

Well, check the video yourself and see why ;)

BUILD LINK
For build explanation check THIS THREAD in mesmer's profession forum.

Comments

  • Alatar.7364Alatar.7364 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 29, 2018

    @Tiah.3091 said:
    Because, REALLY, have you ever seen a root, lasting longer than 2 seconds?

    Excuse me sir, have you ever heard about our Lord and Immobilizer Ranger?
    Sorry, came here just for this comment, I'll happily check the Build later.

    ~ I Aear cân ven na mar

  • Tiah.3091Tiah.3091 Member ✭✭✭

    Yeah, lol, I was thinking about mentioning this particular dude, but got too lazy. Besides, such rangers are kind of a rare beasts anyways =)

  • Simonoly.4352Simonoly.4352 Member ✭✭✭

    Hurrah for Chaotic Interruption! I've been running it since they added immobilise and a random condition back in, err, 2013 apparently (blimey). It's a tremendously good trait and you quite rightly say in your video that the interrupt play style available to Mesmer is very engaging. It's so very very satisfying when you lock someone down with consecutive interrupts and they can't really move utterly shutting them down - it's as Mesmery as you can get. And yes people don't tend to bother cleansing immobilise which is bizarre at times but works in our favour I guess.

  • Mbelch.9028Mbelch.9028 Member ✭✭✭

    @Simonoly.4352 said:
    And yes people don't tend to bother cleansing immobilise which is bizarre at times but works in our favour I guess.

    As a holo, I can say this is because we need movement /sometimes/ to cleanse the immob lol. I have a video where I’m stuck for a few seconds because I have no cleanse skills available to me without being able to move :p

  • EnderzShadow.2506EnderzShadow.2506 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 30, 2018

    Nice job. I dont play mesmer, but enjoyed the video nonetheless.
    ps-Im a sucker for new builds.

    mhm, ok, sure, whatever you say, no after you, I insist, no really, please, be my guest,

  • Yeah I've been running interrupt build whenever I got back into PvP, even tried core (CI/PB/Ineptitude) and chronomancer (with slow traits) at some point. You should consider sigil of ruthlessness if you're looking for burst damage as together with CI its very quick to ramp up the burst (though doesn't last long).

    Mesmer has a lot of options to outplay opponent, and with nerf to pulsing stab few years back I've been finding joy in punishing people for spamming "rotations". Only opponent I can't do that with power interrupt builds would be holo as they can easily proc stab off illusions, and unfortunately there are quite a lot of them floating around in current meta :P

    [RED] Crimson Sunspears...your small family guild since 2015.

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Played a similar chrono version before pof, the problem is anything with easy stab access or dd hardcounter this.
    But after watching the video I'm dying to try your build.

  • Tiah.3091Tiah.3091 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 30, 2018

    @NICENIKESHOE.7128 said:
    You should consider sigil of ruthlessness if you're looking for burst damage

    Well, honestly, I WAS looking at it very closely and I didn't understand the kitten point of it. 5 stacks of might for THREE SECONDS with THREE SECONDS internal cooldown ON INTERRUPT
    I mean, interrupts on most builds do not come that easily. There's a similar talent "Furious Interruption" with 3s of quick on 3s cd. And you can actually see from a video, that there is probably only one or two moments, where I manage to maintain even 6 seconds of quickness back-to back, by chain-interrupting the enemy.
    And in other cases there's a decent gap between quickness buffs. Same numbers would apply to 5xMight from this sigil.
    Seriously, why bother, when you can get 5 stacks permanently from sigil of courage by simply auto-attacking the enemy, or 4 stacks on something as trivial, as weapon swap (from sig. of battle).
    Like why would ANYONE bother themselves with such a lackluster thing, as sig. of ruthlessness?
    Make it x10 for 3s, and even then I would think twice if not thrice, before considering it instead of sig. of absorbtion (which is a boon steal, and can get you the same 5 stacks of might randomly. Or 25, if you're lucky)

    Mesmer has a lot of options to outplay opponent, and with nerf to pulsing stab few years back I've been finding joy in punishing people for spamming "rotations". Only opponent I can't do that with power interrupt builds would be holo as they can easily proc stab off illusions, and unfortunately there are quite a lot of them floating around in current meta :P

    Yeah, hundred percent agree about Holos. The stab SPAM from Corona Burst (which is a 6 sec cd) is annoying as kitten to deal with. Especially taking into account, that it destroys clones. Probably the only viable tactic is to wait for the avatar to end, while kiting around, and only then attempt to go for interrupt.

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:
    Played a similar chrono version before pof, the problem is anything with easy stab access or dd hardcounter this.

    Well, if it's 1-2 stabs per few seconds, then it's not a problem, because sword clones EACH attempt to apply daze. 3 clones + yourself is 4 dazes, which means -4 stability. And you can do this every 5 seconds on average. So, if the enemy can not upkeep at least 4 stacks of stability per 5 seconds rate - then it's quite likely, that you will interrupt him eventually.
    About stab, I'd say, that 10 stab stacks for a long duration (like ele and ranger have) is more nasty, than 1-2 stacks per couple of seconds. Because you won't strip the stab TOO FAST in this case (unless you're lucky with Arcane Thievery). And it can stall the fight long enough for the enemy to kick your kitten.

    Holo is another story, because not only he maintains stacks, but he also kills clones super easily.
    Well, everything, that kills clones super easily is kinda dangerous for this build (as for any mesmer build in general).

    But after watching the video I'm dying to try your build.

    You do that, man! And, please, write here your impressions after ;)

  • Koen.1327Koen.1327 Member ✭✭✭

    you can only remove 1 stab every 0.75 sec, so usually its only -1 stab but your follow up does work if the enemy only has 1 stab

  • Tiah.3091Tiah.3091 Member ✭✭✭

    Hm.. didn't know that, thanks!
    But I'm fairly certain, that I managed to rip at least 2.
    Probably because you and your clones all arrive to the target at various times with mirage thrust. Sometimes the delay can be pretty big.

    One weird thing that also happens with Mirage Thrust, is sometimes it does DOUBLE INTERRUPT.
    Like 2 (and even 3) interrupts with micro-delay on the same target, which appear on the screen almost simultaneously.

    I think you can even spot a couple in the video.

    I'm not sure how it's possible, because target should stop casting after the first interrupt, and, therefore, be immune to consequent interrupts. At least for a second.

    I thought it might be a visual bug, but Chaotic Interrupt condis and boons apply for every instance.

  • incisorr.9502incisorr.9502 Member ✭✭✭

    15k hp build

    nice 1.3k elo adventures there

    also "non-meta power mirage ", you're implying mirage has been meta in any form for the past 4 months or what?

  • @Tiah.3091 said:
    One weird thing that also happens with Mirage Thrust, is sometimes it does DOUBLE INTERRUPT.

    Played with sword a lot and always been triggered that ambush miss almost every single time cuz of terrain ... But sure , for you its double interrupts kappa...
    p.s build only for unrankeds at best :disappointed:

  • Tiah.3091Tiah.3091 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 30, 2018

    @incisorr.9502 said:
    15k hp build
    nice 1.3k elo adventures there
    also "non-meta power mirage ", you're implying mirage has been meta in any form for the past 4 months or what?

    The remark about 15k hp I didn't understand. Noone forces you wear berserker. Use marauder - 30% more durability, 10% less damage. The difference is minimal. I use berserker/marauder 50-50.

    About rating: I play this game for only 2 months, and as you could guess, I kinda suck.
    Though, I had 0 problems maintaining 1400, by playing 90% of time with berserker amulet.
    But that's just me, again, just a random noob. I'm pretty sure, that a leaderboard superstar like yourself could grab a mara and easily carry it to 1800 (which you are at, playing the condi mirage, if I'm not mistaken).
    At least I do not see any obstacles, why a skilled player could not reach a high rating with it. For kitten sake, people playing FA eles at 1800.

    By "meta" I mean explicitly the build for power mirage, which is represented at metabattle. I don't give a kitten about what they play up there on 1800. Although, I know, that you kinda take a serious kitten pride in being "THE one and only mirage in top 100". Or whatever you usually say here on the forums, I don't really care.
    I only meant, that THAT BUILD is what people usually think, when someone says "power mirage".
    Saying "non-meta" was supposed to distinguish my build from that one. I thought it was quite obvious.


    @tinyreborn.1938 said:
    Played with sword a lot and always been triggered that ambush miss almost every single time cuz of terrain ... But sure , for you its double interrupts kappa...
    p.s build only for unrankeds at best :disappointed:

    Well, Incisorr at least made himself pretty clear. But this I don't get at all. You played with a sword a lot, and ambush miss everytime cuz terrain?
    Why not just use it, at <600 units and when there's a plain terrain? How kitten hard that can get?
    Probably I don't understand something...
    And the second sentence "sure for me it's double interrupt" -- like, what the kitten that supposed to mean? Because you failed to do that, that immediately suppose, that I'm lying?

  • @Tiah.3091 said:
    Well, Incisorr at least made himself pretty clear. But this I don't get at all. You played with a sword a lot, and ambush miss everytime cuz terrain?
    Why not just use it, at <600 units and when there's a plain terrain? How kitten hard that can get?
    Probably I don't understand something...
    And the second sentence "sure for me it's double interrupt" -- like, what the kitten that supposed to mean? Because you failed to do that, that immediately suppose, that I'm lying?

    What you cant understand? Or you cant notice that sword ambush miss a lot ? Hell , you can jump in right moment and avoid getting hit by bullcharge even on plain ground,thats how fkd game is and one of reasons why I hate 1h sword, thats miss too many times when I need it .
    "failed to do that" ... is that supposed to mean something ? Feel free to record and show how you hit with MT twice or that your lack of attention (if you had a clone that did that ambush abit later and interrupted something) Before saying something like that do a research and reproduce bug or dont talk about it

  • Tiah.3091Tiah.3091 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 30, 2018

    @tinyreborn.1938 said:
    one of reasons why I hate 1h sword, thats miss too many times when I need it

    Well, nobody said you have to hit MT 100 out of 100. Also, if you missed it, your clones still have a decent chance. CHANCE, you see? Relying on MT for a guaranteed targeted interrupt is stupid and you should never do that. Or at least you do that, but "do not get triggered, if it fails"
    Because it MAY fail. With Infinite Horizon the chance is lowered significantly. With Illusionary Ambush it's lowered even more (because IA usually places you and your clones on a plain terrain next to the target at <600 range).
    If you miss ONE series of MT, the only thing you lost in that case - is endurance. Which isn't that much of a deal. But if you succeeded, then you have a decent chance of killing the target outright from this moment.
    That's the whole point of the build - you pray for interrupts, then make stuff happen.
    (if you want guaranteed targeted interrupts for heals - use mantra, not MT, lol)

    (if you had a clone that did that ambush abit later and interrupted something)

    That is exactly what I meant: a clone doing his interrupt immediately after MY OWN interrupt. If I interrupted the spell - nothing is being cast. Then what did the clone just interrupted (mere 0.1 seconds after my interrupt).
    That what I was asking,

  • If you miss ONE series of MT, the only thing you lost in that case - is endurance.

    Losing entire dodge for nothing is nothing special without access to permavigor (in your case any vigor) like s/d thief /holo is ok?

    That's the whole point of the build - you pray for interrupts, then make stuff happen.

    That was is stupid , LOL. Pray for random interrupts to get a small chance of making build work

    That is exactly what I meant: a clone doing his interrupt immediately after MY OWN interrupt. If I interrupted the spell - nothing is being cast. Then what did the clone just interrupted (mere 0.1 seconds after my interrupt).
    That what I was asking,

    1/4s daze , not 1s daze . They keep spamming and get rupt . If you insist on your 'bug' theory . I told you what to do , make a video

    With Infinite Horizon the chance is lowered significantly

    Your build dont have clone generation . GS trait and no powerblock -> another reason to never play it xD

    @Tiah.3091 said:
    Relying on MT for a guaranteed targeted interrupt is stupid and you should never do that

    What???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
    Dont rely on freaking interrupt on that leap is STUPID? Why that thing doing there in first place there? RANDOM interrupt? ? ? Use it for what its made and dont get it because of stupid terrain or whatnot is fail on my part and stupid?W T F?

  • Tiah.3091Tiah.3091 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 30, 2018

    @tinyreborn.1938 said:
    Losing entire dodge for nothing is nothing special without access to permavigor (in your case any vigor) like s/d thief /holo is ok?

    You have a decent uptime of vigor in combat through Chaos traitline.
    Also, you don't LOSE dodge. If you need dodge - you dodge, like you would normally do in case of any non-Mirage build. But IF you HAPPEN TO INTERRUPT, WHILE DOING YOUR NORMAL DODGE (avoiding the damage and what not) - then why not capitalize on in?
    What's wrong with it being "almost random"? Because when you get the interrupt - you don't really care what spell you just interrupted. Because you Immobilize the target, additionally apply either Blind or Chilled, AND 5x Might, Quickness and random boons (including Vigor) to yourself.

    That was is stupid , LOL. Pray for random interrupts to get a small chance of making build work

    It's not a "small chance". During the encounter, if target is not stacking 5 stab every 5 seconds, you WILL GET the interrupt eventually. And you really only need it ONCE to get the root. Then follow up with Sword-2, then summon Illusionary Swordsman (with quickness).
    Then the target is usually dead, unless it's blown some serious defensive ability.

    Your build dont have clone generation . GS trait and no powerblock -> another reason to never play it xD

    You have MORE THAN ENOUGH clones for Mirage Thrust from Sword-Sword through ambush ITSELF, from Sw-2, Sw-4, Sw-5 and Self-Deception.
    On the other hand, nor Imagined Burden, nor Power Block are NOT REALLY NEEDED for the build to work. Because you really only need that Immob from Chaotic Interrupt, and you usually will get it from Sword's ambush.
    Though, both traits certainly WOULDN'T HURT. I chose the IB, because I like it with GS. You can take PB - your GS kit will be slightly weaker as a result, but Sw-Sw will be much stronger.

    P.S.
    As a side note: you could chill the kitten down a little. Then try the build (in Unranked, lol) yourself, instead of theorising . Then come here and whine some more. Or not. Who cares.

  • @Tiah.3091 said:
    You have a decent uptime of vigor in combat through Chaos traitline.

    Your lack of understanding what you talking about amusing me ...

    Then come here and whine some more

    Where im whining? Thats you making clown out of yourself with that nonsense ...And apparently I'm too by responding to you...

  • Tiah.3091Tiah.3091 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 31, 2018

    @tinyreborn.1938 said:
    Your lack of understanding what you talking about amusing me ...

    Your inability to read the description of a single kitten trait doesn't bother me at all.

    1) First fight - 20s duration, 13s Vigor uptime
    2) Second fight - 24s duration, 19s uptime.
    3) Third - 7 seconds duration, 2 seconds uptime (didn't proc, no luck)
    4) Fourth - 12s duration, 9 uptime

    And so on.
    Chaotic Interrupt gives 5s of Vigor randomly. And since there's no ICD, you can stack it to some meaningful duration (with luck, of course)

  • @Tiah.3091 said:

    Its not my fault you wrote it like chaos traitline grant you vigor despite of your trait choice like vigor on crit from dueling .
    At least you realize thats random and still dont understand that you get nothing without random interrupts xD
    Mr.I-Maintain.1400 I tried CI when mirage been even stronger (and we had okayish population) and that been a bit fun in duels but no more than that . So flanby is right , low elo adventures are real

  • Tiah.3091Tiah.3091 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 31, 2018

    @tinyreborn.1938 said:
    Mr.I-Maintain.1400 I tried CI when mirage been even stronger (and we had okayish population) and that been a bit fun in duels but no more than that . So flanby is right , low elo adventures are real

    So far, if I didn't miss anything, your only attempt at "constructive criticism" failed somewhere at the point: "You can't rely on random interrupts for the build to work - Why not, if these interrupts (Mirage Thrust) are just a bonus and do not cost you anything - Autistic Screeching"

    And the whole thing eventually boiled down to "author is a gold noob, ignore"
    Because apparently, anyone less than platinum 1 is a kitten clown, and the game only matters on top 250.

    That's a nice argument, of course, except not everyone here would sell their anal virginity to get an additional 100 rating on the leaderboard.
    In fact, most people don't give a kitten.
    I play ranked mostly for fair matchups (which are not always fair), for rewards and for fun. And what fun is it to play with a boring build, like condi mirage, or mantra shatter?

    The whole point of this thread, was to create a build, which is FUN and ENGAGING to play.

  • tinyreborn.1938tinyreborn.1938 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 31, 2018

    "If someone is in plat1+ they 100% sold anal virginity!" - Tiah.3091 2k18 .
    I wonder what sold those who are at 1800+? You have to know ...right ?
    What constructive criticism? You cant even progress with it.
    Bad traits choice .Why ? IB is...been okay in old phantasm shatter build which frostball been played, but in CI build ? If you just want phantasm build just play illusions and phantasm traits? Why you even want to play IC if you dont focus on interrupts? If you focus on interrupts why not play power block that way more useful ? Deny enemy heal by another 15 is just crazy ,on corona burst ,holo leap ,healing turret , etc .Heck you can even interrupt MIRAGE AMBUSHES and put a 15s cd . By saying you dont need it you just dont understand how powerful that trait .
    Chaos(random)storm once per two heals? How is that good? Another example how you rely on randomness to help you. You have master manipulation trait that reduce cooldown of 2 really good utilities - blink, AT + reflect as bonus that is very usful in some matchups/situations.
    90s cd mirror of anguish - insane long cd , wont do anything on those who had stab (2 other traits pretty much useless as well ,for your build xD)
    You said smth like " During the encounter, if target is not stacking 5 stab every 5 seconds,you WILL GET the interrupt eventually" . Why 5 stacks ? why every 5 seconds?Your boon rip ends on arcane thieverly that doesnt have stability priority like steal, if you use it as attempt to remove stab, where is your cleanses against all those condi mesmers or scourges or burn guardians that 100% exist on that elo(you also need to land it to actually transfer condis)?
    You will surprise someone once and then they will know what to expect and be prepared to cleanse/stow/stab to counter.
    Who you want to surprise with it? Mesmers who dodge in immob/stuns? Boonbeast that have 'i dont care about your interrupts,immobilize,cripple,chill' stance? Core guardian with high sustain/cleanses/stability ? Dodge spellbreakers?Tanky spellbreakers with breakstun trait?
    What could have been better? Even mantra for daze with new CS trait would be good instead of AT . Because you will have ability to interrupt key skills from decent range instant as you seen it ? Even traited GS4 into interrupt from mantra would be looking very solid . Bad reaction ?
    I dont care if you play for fun ,for rewards or something else. I said my opinion - build is trash and for unrankeds only AND my experience with a sword ambush.
    But why just stop there? Lets start talk bs like

    Relying on MT for a guaranteed targeted interrupt is stupid and you should never do that

    I have a skill that have interrupt in it , I want to interrupt 1s casting skill , I'm close enough and nearly hugging him ...but he say its stupid to use skill that supposed to interrupt things.
    Meanwhile

    @Tiah.3091 said:
    That's the whole point of the build - you pray for interrupts, then make stuff happen.

    Idea of praying for random interrupts - very smart .
    I need a help to understand that because I just cant

  • Grogba.6204Grogba.6204 Member ✭✭✭

    @Tiah.3091 said:

    And the whole thing eventually boiled down to "author is a gold noob, ignore"
    Because apparently, anyone less than platinum 1 is a kitten clown, and the game only matters on top 250.

    Welcome to PvP boards in a nutshell.

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 31, 2018

    @Tiah.3091 said:
    You do that, man! And, please, write here your impressions after ;)

    Hey, I've tried your build and while I had some fun with it, it has some downsides.
    I had forgot how bad sword phantasm is, it misses a lot (wonder why the heck ANet changed the animation, previous phantasm was so much better).
    And what was expectable, stab ruins the entire premise and some professions have a lot of it.

    But thanks to you I'm having fun currenlty playing the chrono variant again (haven't played it for a long time) so thank you for that.

  • Tiah.3091Tiah.3091 Member ✭✭✭

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:
    I had forgot how bad sword phantasm is, it misses a lot (wonder why the heck ANet changed the animation, previous phantasm was so much better).
    And what was expectable, stab ruins the entire premise and some professions have a lot of it.

    Well, I know how bad it is, because the whole point of Chaotic Interrupt was to get the Immob and ONLY THEN summon sword phantasm. While target is rooted and can't run away nor dodge the phantasm.
    Though, I agree, that both MH OH swords and especially the sword passive trait could use some lovin from A-Net.
    Stab on the other hand ruins the fun a lot, yes. You either have to pray for Arcane Thievery to steal it randomly, or just kite until it falls off on its own.

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