About our Policy on RMT - Page 3 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

About our Policy on RMT

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Comments

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 1, 2018

    @Bloodstealer.5978 said:
    One thing that does still itch in my skull though.. and likely others... is there truth in the recent reddit posts where the poster was apparently warned while asleep for the mail then upon opening received further penalising ( at least that is what I recall was the crux of the original forum tension), though tbh I never looked to deep into the discussion surrounding the issue beyond the GW2 forums. Just that you mention it's not normal practice or account suspensions when handling RMT deliveries.

    The original RMT policy did say that you would be penalized for receiving ill-gotten gold/objects. Most likely they haven't thought of the possibility of someone spending real cash to grief someone else then. All the cases mentioned on reddit/forums happened under that previous policy.

    The one we have now is a recent (very recent - as in "yesterday") change.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • @Gaile Gray.6029 said:
    Here's some additional info about our RMT policy: We do not suspend (or “ban”) accounts for receiving RMT gold or items. We seem to have two questions about deliveries: “Will my account be banned or suspended for accepting gold or items that came from an RMT company?” and “Can someone grief me by sending me an RMT delivery, hoping that I will be suspended?” As the RMT policy states, there are several steps that our Customer Support Team may take if someone receives gold or items from an RMT company. For instance, the gold or items usually will be removed from the account. However, account suspensions are not part of the normal process for handling RMT deliveries. So the answer to both questions above is “No, that will not happen.”

    The RMT Policy includes tips on what to do if you receive an unexpected delivery, including simply choosing “Return to sender” for any deliveries from an unknown or unexpected source. It also explains that if you accept delivery of something that came from an RMT, the received gold or items probably will be removed from your account at some point. That could happen whether you ordered from RMT or someone else ordered and had it delivered to you. But again, the account itself is not suspended or banned.

    I hope that this info puts your mind at rest. We do our best to curtail RMT activities because RMT companies are the largest perpetrators of account theft around, and we want to protect our players. We built the Trading Post with the same purpose in mind: To allow sales or exchanges of gold or items in a safe environment. So please don’t buy from RMT companies and please do use the Trading Post. Taking that advice really will help everyone, player and company alike.

    This is what I believe most of us were hoping to see. Clear and reassuring.

    It will probably not be enough for a few people, but I presume it should be more enough for most. And it will be something to link in case someone tries to funnel the flames on the issue.

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I belive this would have happened even with out the wolf cry from the personin question, sadly we will never know.

  • Dedicant.6820Dedicant.6820 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 1, 2018

    @Daddicus.6128 said:
    It's hard for US to tell, but it's easy for ANet to tell. So, I believe ANet. Their track record of integrity is pretty darned good. (Their track record on communication … not so good, but this thread is one step in the right direction as communication goes.)

    Except in this case anet support was wrong in punishing this account and had to apologise and face a huge controversy on reddit and elsewhere. If it's easy for them to tell someone messed up big then. I'm glad that the issue was brought up so that the punishment was retracted especially since it may have only worked out favourably for them and any future victims because of said drama. Especially considering on one of the past examples I linked anet explicitly said the punishment was maintained on their "assumption" that rmt griefing did not exist and yet here there is an example of it. It's a shame that account never got this level of publicity on their punishment.

  • Zeivu.3615Zeivu.3615 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 1, 2018

    @omgdracula.6345 said:
    This is way overblown and such a non issue it is crazy. I am not saying Anets policy is perfect by any means but it is fine. The fact of the matter is none of the people who brought up the issue got perma banned. They are all playing the game still or have an account that is not banned that is able to play the game.

    Looking at RMT sites for 200G they would have to pay around 10 USD for 200 gold(that isn't including tax or other fees that may be charged). Not many people are going to spend 10 bucks to troll someone.

    Which brings me to my next point. Yes you are fine if someone sends you small amounts of gold for tips. Why? Anet doesn't care and those small amounts don't throw of a warning. You may ask to yourself why? Because you can easily farm over 20 gold in an hour if you wanted, especially now with the Halloween event, etc. 200 gold I am sure does. It isn't a small amount of money to the majority of the community.

    It got accepted they got flagged and slapped on the wrist and are fine.

    This is such a non issue that it is crazy. Even this now being widely known because of the hella threads about it, players are not going to go dropping 10 bucks just to troll random people. Or it will be painfully obvious if you get large amounts of gold in your mail from people you don't know or you don't actively command etc.

    Non issue. Log in and play and like you already kitten should trust people you know.

    I don't know where you live, but 10 bucks has almost little value thanks to the removal of the Gold Standard and Minimum Wage hikes. There are sociopaths who will do it and can afford to do it several times a month, if they want you to suffer badly. In my state, we are required to give that an hour.

    I really do hope that they have the tools and the know-how to link or debunk griefing and legitimate purchases regarding RMT.

  • Karaha.3290Karaha.3290 Member ✭✭✭

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    @Karaha.3290 said:

    @Vagrant.7206 said:
    Hi @Gaile Gray.6029, thanks for posting this.

    The concern right now is that sometimes people will use RMT and buy gold for somebody else's account in attempts to try and get them banned. How does the ANet support team plan to address this issue so that the uninformed are not targeted or penalized by this kind of behavior as well? What assurances do we have from the support team?


    Context for those who are unaware of what has been happening: https://old.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/9d7orp/how_to_get_someone_banned_for_less_than_3/?st=jnxsx4dd&sh=df055dc4

    They wrote about it in the updated policy.

    If you suspect you’ve received items or gold from a gold seller or RMT account, the best action is to report the message, return it if it still contains the items, and contact support if you are concerned that further action may be taken. We will work with you to secure your account and track the items back to the RMT account(s).

    But let's say you're an average GW2 user who doesn't read either this forum or the Reddit. How are you to know it isn't one of your guildies or friends paying you back for something? Most people get money in the mail and they'll happily take it without a second thought.

    Some users on reddit have reported receiving bans before even checking their mail, let alone accepting the money.

    I think you would know the name of your friend or guild mate who borrowed gold from you.
    But I also think you are right in general. I remember when a guy from map chat sent me 50g (cause i was complaining in a funny way about something) and I took it without any thought. I haven't even checked the name.
    On the other hand, every now and then, when I get some Junk (minis, festival items, and so on), I make bundles out of it (low lvl food, a mini and/or tonics and 2-5 gold) and send them to new players, just as an welcome present.
    It would be sad to get them back, only because these new players are afraid that it could be an RMT mail.

  • Leaa.2943Leaa.2943 Member ✭✭

    Thanks for clearing all the worries from the players i appreciate you took the time to do so :)

  • Daddicus.6128Daddicus.6128 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dedicant.6820 said:

    @Daddicus.6128 said:
    It's hard for US to tell, but it's easy for ANet to tell. So, I believe ANet. Their track record of integrity is pretty darned good. (Their track record on communication … not so good, but this thread is one step in the right direction as communication goes.)

    Except in this case anet support was wrong in punishing this account and had to apologise and face a huge controversy on reddit and elsewhere. If it's easy for them to tell someone messed up big then. I'm glad that the issue was brought up so that the punishment was retracted especially since it may have only worked out favourably for them and any future victims because of said drama. Especially considering on one of the past examples I linked anet explicitly said the punishment was maintained on their "assumption" that rmt griefing did not exist and yet here there is an example of it. It's a shame that account never got this level of publicity on their punishment.

    That may be, but we're not talking about the OLD policy. We're talking about the subject of this thread, which is the NEW policy. And that was very clear; Gaile did not need to clarify, except for the fact that people simply weren't reading it carefully enough.

    But, I'm glad she did. Perhaps now people can get back to gaming instead of inventing scenarios that don't exist.

  • Daddicus.6128Daddicus.6128 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Zeivu.3615 said:
    I really do hope that they have the tools and the know-how to link or debunk griefing and legitimate purchases regarding RMT.

    They already know that the sender is bogus, or they wouldn't be investigating. With the policy as stated, the worst that can happen is the money is removed twice (once by ANet and also by the player, at roughly the same time). In that case, they would return it. They bend over backwards to right wrongs that are their fault.

  • Daddicus.6128Daddicus.6128 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Karaha.3290 said:

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    @Karaha.3290 said:

    @Vagrant.7206 said:
    Hi @Gaile Gray.6029, thanks for posting this.

    The concern right now is that sometimes people will use RMT and buy gold for somebody else's account in attempts to try and get them banned. How does the ANet support team plan to address this issue so that the uninformed are not targeted or penalized by this kind of behavior as well? What assurances do we have from the support team?


    Context for those who are unaware of what has been happening: https://old.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/9d7orp/how_to_get_someone_banned_for_less_than_3/?st=jnxsx4dd&sh=df055dc4

    They wrote about it in the updated policy.

    If you suspect you’ve received items or gold from a gold seller or RMT account, the best action is to report the message, return it if it still contains the items, and contact support if you are concerned that further action may be taken. We will work with you to secure your account and track the items back to the RMT account(s).

    But let's say you're an average GW2 user who doesn't read either this forum or the Reddit. How are you to know it isn't one of your guildies or friends paying you back for something? Most people get money in the mail and they'll happily take it without a second thought.

    Some users on reddit have reported receiving bans before even checking their mail, let alone accepting the money.

    I think you would know the name of your friend or guild mate who borrowed gold from you.
    But I also think you are right in general. I remember when a guy from map chat sent me 50g (cause i was complaining in a funny way about something) and I took it without any thought. I haven't even checked the name.
    On the other hand, every now and then, when I get some Junk (minis, festival items, and so on), I make bundles out of it (low lvl food, a mini and/or tonics and 2-5 gold) and send them to new players, just as an welcome present.
    It would be sad to get them back, only because these new players are afraid that it could be an RMT mail.

    This could be a real issue. In fact, it has a parallel in the real world: phishing schemes.

    So, how does an email sender avoid the recipient possibly thinking (in real life) it's phishing?

    Simple: send two emails. The first explains why, and the second includes the item. I do it several times a week in my job.

    The same would help in a game world.

  • @Gaile Gray.6029 said:
    So the answer to both questions above is “No, that will not happen.”

    >

    Thank you!

  • Tiawal.2351Tiawal.2351 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 2, 2018

    @Gaile Gray.6029 said:
    Here's some additional info about our RMT policy: We do not suspend (or “ban”) accounts for receiving RMT gold or items. We seem to have two questions about deliveries: “Will my account be banned or suspended for accepting gold or items that came from an RMT company?” and “Can someone grief me by sending me an RMT delivery, hoping that I will be suspended?” As the RMT policy states, there are several steps that our Customer Support Team may take if someone receives gold or items from an RMT company. For instance, the gold or items usually will be removed from the account. However, account suspensions are not part of the normal process for handling RMT deliveries. So the answer to both questions above is “No, that will not happen.”

    The RMT Policy includes tips on what to do if you receive an unexpected delivery, including simply choosing “Return to sender” for any deliveries from an unknown or unexpected source. It also explains that if you accept delivery of something that came from an RMT, the received gold or items probably will be removed from your account at some point. That could happen whether you ordered from RMT or someone else ordered and had it delivered to you. But again, the account itself is not suspended or banned.

    I hope that this info puts your mind at rest. We do our best to curtail RMT activities because RMT companies are the largest perpetrators of account theft around, and we want to protect our players. We built the Trading Post with the same purpose in mind: To allow sales or exchanges of gold or items in a safe environment. So please don’t buy from RMT companies and please do use the Trading Post. Taking that advice really will help everyone, player and company alike.

    Thanks for the answers and the update to RMT policy, which still needs better wording:
    "If the account is directly linked to RMT—by way of evidence that amounts to more than just receiving items" it's not quite clear, but Lead GM Magister already explained it better "that is, if evidence is found that the account is further distributing or storing wealth for such purposes."

    The next part of the same explanation both gives peace of mind to those not involved in RMT buying, but it is also a potential victory for RMT gold buyers - and they shouldn't be encouraged at all, buyers are just as guilty as gold sellers:
    "Simply receiving gold from RMT is not enough to warrant an account action, though users who do accept this gold may receive a cautionary message that simply warns against the dangers of buying gold and items via real money traders"
    This should be changed to something like "Accepting gold from RMT could lead to suspension (not ban) of your account, that will last until the situation is clarified", because some may receive such gold while on a 1 year break from GW2 for example, so they can react when they return. There are gold buyers out there, not everyone is just a victim of such attacks. Just rather let guilty players get away, than keep everyone worried about losing their account.

    ArenaNet did great job of limiting and almost eliminating RMT in GW2. Those of you who played few years ago, 3+ or more, may remember the constant gold seller spam in map chat, then later followed in whisper chat; almost all of those are gone now. The in-game tools of block & reporting them were also great, I miss them in many other games, where RMT still dominates the chat channels. The war against the RMT shouldn't stop, and buyers are just as guilty as sellers, without buyers RMT wouldn't exist.

    We should just make sure innocent people can play without fear, but RMT buyers shouldn't get away easily: they hurting not just the game company, but everyone playing the game. There must be ways to make certain that someone is a buyer, and not just a victim of an attack, and a Mail filter option would go a long way helping the team see who is open to receiving RMT and who is against.

    We don't want RMT back, please take care of them, because so far what you did had great results. Thank You for that!

    P.S. / Edit: I know that accepting RMT gold and doing this repeatedly WILL lead to actions (including ban), but the updated RMT policy also should say that clearly, because right now doesn't, and while "We do not suspend (or “ban”) accounts for receiving RMT gold or items" sounds great, shouldn't look like green light for RMT buyers. The RMT policy just needs further clarification and rework.

  • Inculpatus cedo.9234Inculpatus cedo.9234 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 11, 2018

    Even if their accounts aren't suspended or terminated, what good does it do 'buyers' if their ill-gotten gains are removed each time? Would seem like a waste of money after once or twice.

  • Boogiepop Void.6473Boogiepop Void.6473 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 3, 2018

    Last time I was in game someone threatened to "send [me] some gold and get [me] banned, you [EXPLETIVES DELETED]". Since the ban process is apparently applied to victims and has no recourse, I am scared to log into my account on which I have several hundred dollars and who knows how many hours invested. What am I supposed to do to protect myself? ANet is saying they want "proof" that you didn't buy RMT gold, but you can't prove a negative. If I can't defend myself I have no choice not to play at all until a method of defense is implemented.

  • Or more simply: that's not a thing. It was an empty threat (which you can report if you still have the mail/screenshots).

    "With great power comes not-so-great utility bills."

  • Send the person the link to the thread saying you won’t get banned and a link to the game rules about threats and harassment and tell them if you get gold from a gold seller then you’ll report them for harassment. Then block them. That should cool their jets.

    Be careful what you ask for
    ANet might give it to you.

    Forum Guides: Images. Text

  • rng.1024rng.1024 Member ✭✭✭

    No reason to worry. As stated above, unless the other person has your account password they can only send the gold via the in-game mail, just make sure you return to sender without receiving any attachments. Should there still be action taken to suspend your account, you're still free to open a ticket about it to explain your side of the story.

    Anyone claiming otherwise have been found guilty and try to wash their name clean - as long as you don't accept high value items through mail, and make sure to specify purity of intent when sending said items, there's nothing to worry about. Of course it's not a foolproof system, but it's a far cry from what the "bullies" want you to believe.

  • Danikat.8537Danikat.8537 Member ✭✭✭✭

    On a related note if anyone threatens to deliberately get you banned you can report them for verbal abuse.

    Nothing will happen immediately, so you'll probably want to block them too, but it will alert Anet to the threats and then they can take whatever action they think is appropriate.

    "You can run like a river, Till you end up in the sea,
    And you run till night is black, And keep on going in your dreams,
    And you know all the long while, It's the journey that you seek,
    It's the miles of moving forward, With the wind beneath your wings."

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