Newish Player Thoughts on Mesmer OP

GW2 is my first MMO, and I've only been playing since earlier this year. I've been reading a lot of the "mesmer OP, need nerf" threads and they've prompted me to make my first post. My first, and still main, character is a Mesmer. I had no clue what playing it would be like. I was simply drawn to the unique concept and pretty effects.

I haven't even begun to scratch the surface of advanced PvE modes, but I've played a good number of unranked sPvP matches over the months. I am by no means good, but maybe competent at best (pretty much a 1:1 win/loss record over hundreds of matches). I've spent some time studying the Wiki, some YouTubes, and mostly just casually practiced in unranked. I've experimented with different builds, but have never actually looked into metas. Something about that turns me off, like copying someone else's solution, or going for pure optimization over fun.

So it saddens me that the profession I innately gravitated to from the start, and even weapon sets I settled into (staff, sceptor/torch) simply because they felt good, are deemed by many to be "OP" and thus subjected to nerf after nerf when I'm still learning.

I completely agree that mesmer in general can be challenging for inexperienced opponents or anyone who doesn't know how the class works. That's because the abilities are so unconventional. The class is unique to GW and one has to do some homework to see what it's about. This probably explains many of the "I tried mes for 5 mins and dominated, therefore it's OP" stories. Against those who don't know how to counter it, it takes no prisoners. That said, I don't need to be a mesmer expert to state that playing the class alone isn't a guarantee of success. As mentioned here and elsewhere, a number of professions/elites hard counter it, and anyone who knows how mes works can likely hold their own against it with most any class.

I think mesmer is a perfect example of a "minutes to learn, months to master" class. So intricate are its mechanics, with so much to work with (although contrary to what complainers think, you can't have everything at once in one build), a fair amount of thought, strategy, and timing goes into playing mes. It's a complex and high learning curve profession. It's not as easy as it looks or may seem just because one gets lucky versus a batch of noobs in a PUG.

Just because a class has a lot of tools to choose from, or has unique, esoteric mechanics does not make it OP. To this day, I have not touched Necromancer or Deadeye, but both have given me trouble in PvP. The first time I faced a pair of Scourges cheesing double-stacked ground AOEs, I kept getting melted in seconds. Same with getting nuked by Reapers and Deadeyes. Yes these playstyles were frustrating, but mostly because I didn't, and largely still don't, know how to deal with them. I learned about Necros and have since done much better against them by using mesmer's evades to escape and pressure them from distance. I've dodged/blocked some DE snipes. It's an ongoing learning process. But I'm certainly not about to get on the forums to accuse professions I know little about of being OP, let alone advocating nerfs.

Anyhow, it seems like most on this forum are pretty advanced players, so my thoughts may be dismissed as nooby. But just wanted to share a different perspective. Thanks for reading.

Mesmer is no way op, i mean even when EM was in its after nerf state with 3 sec exhaust it was still viable because thats the only normal GM trait in Mirage for sPvP, and mesmer is outscaled by a lot of other classes for example holo no matter what build we take holo has a huge AoE CC, boons, surviability and much more. I seen a lot of people crying mesmer having a button for full invuln i mean it would be a big thing if other classes woudnt have that by a passive(maybe even works better than the Distort). Its just that most of the people crying mesmer is too OP are ones who are around Silver and they meet with a lot of higher rank players who beat them but their mesmer sucks. Its just that mesmer needs time to learn and when someone learned it it was profitable to be used but now its close to unplayable because you just get chased down by a slb or something and get chain locked by any class.Yes mesmer has a huge AoE burst i agree with that, it can melt most of the classes in seconds (sorry, it used to) but that needed a setup and while it was hard to dodge it had a CD on it. The second thing mesmer was ranged okey, and could burst from there, but what it takes to survive it? Basically most of the times your passive traits make you survive it anyway.Mesmer is OP because people cant play against it, and not because its that strong or somethingCondi Mirage is a whole another story, i hope all of the people who were crying for power mesmer bursting them down in one sec now they get bursted down by conditionsFor some reason i dont see anyone cry for 1,5k ranged bursts from DE, perma stealth one shot backstabs, boon slb, the new holo with a lot of boons, power heralds, trapper DH all of these classes are countering mesmer, even reaper does a little, only time i can think of mesmer being OP is when the phantasms got reworked and there was a Disenchanter meta and ofc the confusion sword meta

@Nepster.4275 said:Mesmer is no way op, i mean even when EM was in its after nerf state with 3 sec exhaust it was still viable because thats the only normal GM trait in Mirage for sPvP, and mesmer is outscaled by a lot of other classes for example holo no matter what build we take holo has a huge AoE CC, boons, surviability and much more. I seen a lot of people crying mesmer having a button for full invuln i mean it would be a big thing if other classes woudnt have that by a passive(maybe even works better than the Distort). Its just that most of the people crying mesmer is too OP are ones who are around Silver and they meet with a lot of higher rank players who beat them but their mesmer sucks. Its just that mesmer needs time to learn and when someone learned it it was profitable to be used but now its close to unplayable because you just get chased down by a slb or something and get chain locked by any class.Yes mesmer has a huge AoE burst i agree with that, it can melt most of the classes in seconds (sorry, it used to) but that needed a setup and while it was hard to dodge it had a CD on it. The second thing mesmer was ranged okey, and could burst from there, but what it takes to survive it? Basically most of the times your passive traits make you survive it anyway.Mesmer is OP because people cant play against it, and not because its that strong or somethingCondi Mirage is a whole another story, i hope all of the people who were crying for power mesmer bursting them down in one sec now they get bursted down by conditionsFor some reason i dont see anyone cry for 1,5k ranged bursts from DE, perma stealth one shot backstabs, boon slb, the new holo with a lot of boons, power heralds, trapper DH all of these classes are countering mesmer, even reaper does a little, only time i can think of mesmer being OP is when the phantasms got reworked and there was a Disenchanter meta and ofc the confusion sword meta

I started playing mirage and mesmer for the first time ever in wvw solo roam, it's a pretty powerful spec as expected, can't deny that.

Before trying it out I was one of them who raged a lot against mirages, especially axe builds, but after playing it myself I learnt different things.

It's a noob stomper build, if you are a bad player who random dodge and don't know how to keep track on the screen after the break target skills you will get punished insanely.It's even more punishing than bad players against spellbreaker.

But against good players, well... completely different story, if people know how to dodge, you will find yourself with zero evades and burst skills left and your opponent still at 90% health ready to blow you up.

To be honest lately I am seeing always less mirages roaming, it's all a fiesta of soulbeasts (top 1vs1 spec atm), revenants, reapers, megabane spellbreakers, of course deadeyes and last but not least holosmiths, which usually lose only against boonbeast, they are the second top 1vs1 duelist build with zero counters, crazy high sustain against both power and condi specs.

The only thing currently completely broken and out of control is deadeye stealth on dodge that cannot be countered by anything in the game.

@whoknocks.4935 said:

@Nepster.4275 said:Mesmer is no way op, i mean even when EM was in its after nerf state with 3 sec exhaust it was still viable because thats the only normal GM trait in Mirage for sPvP, and mesmer is outscaled by a lot of other classes for example holo no matter what build we take holo has a huge AoE CC, boons, surviability and much more. I seen a lot of people crying mesmer having a button for full invuln i mean it would be a big thing if other classes woudnt have that by a passive(maybe even works better than the Distort). Its just that most of the people crying mesmer is too OP are ones who are around Silver and they meet with a lot of higher rank players who beat them but their mesmer sucks. Its just that mesmer needs time to learn and when someone learned it it was profitable to be used but now its close to unplayable because you just get chased down by a slb or something and get chain locked by any class.Yes mesmer has a huge AoE burst i agree with that, it can melt most of the classes in seconds (sorry, it used to) but that needed a setup and while it was hard to dodge it had a CD on it. The second thing mesmer was ranged okey, and could burst from there, but what it takes to survive it? Basically most of the times your passive traits make you survive it anyway.Mesmer is OP because people cant play against it, and not because its that strong or somethingCondi Mirage is a whole another story, i hope all of the people who were crying for power mesmer bursting them down in one sec now they get bursted down by conditionsFor some reason i dont see anyone cry for 1,5k ranged bursts from DE, perma stealth one shot backstabs, boon slb, the new holo with a lot of boons, power heralds, trapper DH all of these classes are countering mesmer, even reaper does a little, only time i can think of mesmer being OP is when the phantasms got reworked and there was a Disenchanter meta and ofc the confusion sword meta

I must say, credit and respect where it's due - good on you for putting aside the past prejudices and trying it for yourself. /tips hat

It is true that mirage adds to the core design of mesmer as a class that stomps all over weaker players who struggle with the mechanics or have bad targeting keybinds etc. I haven't played for a while but just yesterday jumped into wvw and won a few 1v2/3s as well as surviving/kiting a 1v6 in open field for quite frankly a ridiculous amount of time.

But come up against one or two good players and yes it is a different story. Out of all the classes, the turning point in the learning curve and corresponding ability of players to fight against mesmer is the most extreme - once they've passed that point the difficulty drastically diminishes.

@Curunen.8729 said:

@whoknocks.4935 said:

@Nepster.4275 said:Mesmer is no way op, i mean even when EM was in its after nerf state with 3 sec exhaust it was still viable because thats the only normal GM trait in Mirage for sPvP, and mesmer is outscaled by a lot of other classes for example holo no matter what build we take holo has a huge AoE CC, boons, surviability and much more. I seen a lot of people crying mesmer having a button for full invuln i mean it would be a big thing if other classes woudnt have that by a passive(maybe even works better than the Distort). Its just that most of the people crying mesmer is too OP are ones who are around Silver and they meet with a lot of higher rank players who beat them but their mesmer sucks. Its just that mesmer needs time to learn and when someone learned it it was profitable to be used but now its close to unplayable because you just get chased down by a slb or something and get chain locked by any class.Yes mesmer has a huge AoE burst i agree with that, it can melt most of the classes in seconds (sorry, it used to) but that needed a setup and while it was hard to dodge it had a CD on it. The second thing mesmer was ranged okey, and could burst from there, but what it takes to survive it? Basically most of the times your passive traits make you survive it anyway.Mesmer is OP because people cant play against it, and not because its that strong or somethingCondi Mirage is a whole another story, i hope all of the people who were crying for power mesmer bursting them down in one sec now they get bursted down by conditionsFor some reason i dont see anyone cry for 1,5k ranged bursts from DE, perma stealth one shot backstabs, boon slb, the new holo with a lot of boons, power heralds, trapper DH all of these classes are countering mesmer, even reaper does a little, only time i can think of mesmer being OP is when the phantasms got reworked and there was a Disenchanter meta and ofc the confusion sword meta

Exactly that, i won a lot of 1vs2 as well because the level of players around is not the best, I am running the reflect projectiles buff on evade and half of the rangers i fought on 1vs2 literally killed themselves with rapid fire xD

But as soon as i encountered a good holo, thief or rev, they blowed me up 100-0.

I love the profession already not because i am killing people like a monster, but for the disengage ability i have... unfortunately wvw right now is all about gankers who goes 2vs1 3vs1 4vs1 or even 10vs1 and the only way to survive 100% is deadeye, 90% is mirage, 80% holo and spellbreaker.

So fun there was the reset and i already killed some players i had in my blocklist in 1vs1s and they barely touched me and stayed on the ground 2 minutes before going back to spawn xDFinally some sweet revenge.

I usually block those players who trash talk or siege everytime they kill you for zero reason but annoy and tease, sweet revenge.

It's funny how many whispers i received being called hacker or noob or cancer...

@whoknocks.4935 said:After 1vs4 I always had 'gg anet' . Thankfully? xDAlso its aids permareflect trait ... idk how its EVADE all nerfs XD

@tinyreborn.1938 said:

@whoknocks.4935 said:After 1vs4 I always had 'gg anet' . Thankfully? xDAlso its aids permareflect trait ... idk how its EVADE all nerfs XD

I even got trash talked by an holosmith, which are supposed to be a good mirage counter, calling me noob.

I told him: if a noob killed you, what are you then?He blocked me...

Nobody says it's not a damn strong spec, but shines against noobs and gets less effective the more the player you face is good, to be honest right now soulbeast (boonbeast) and holosmith are in a better spot than mirage in 1vs1 and small fights scenarios.

Mirage has better disengage and reset abilities, but with all the gankers around you are forced to...

@whoknocks.4935 said:

@tinyreborn.1938 said:

@whoknocks.4935 said:After 1vs4 I always had 'gg anet' . Thankfully? xDAlso its aids permareflect trait ... idk how its EVADE all nerfs XD

When first time I went holo full zerk gear cuz I dont have other and kinda first time seen wvw , been on desert map,they tried to kill chicken champion ... Well I ended up killing 7 people and 4 of them were mirages(If being fair half of them were busy with boss and I was trying to survive on stairs, got downedstate fight win and his buddies forgot to help him XD...) Weird but its not hard to play holo there with proper gear/food ,probably because most of them really bad and serve a meme material for videos 'Look how good I'm farming potatos' , imo its a shame to upload it ... xDBtw try sword. Fight 1vs3+ . Use frenzy on half hp (I roamed solo only with glassy gear no toughness/vitality) and was looking where to blink ,by the time i moved mouse to spot where I want to blink out ...I died to retal...because even pistol whip from thief does only 4 hits,but mesmer ultra fast 8 hits with no damage attached to it , you will find lots of fun and deaths.. :D

@tinyreborn.1938 said:

@whoknocks.4935 said:After 1vs4 I always had 'gg anet' . Thankfully? xDAlso its aids permareflect trait ... idk how its EVADE all nerfs XD

Evasive Mirror does have one big downside though - can't use much stealth with it or risk breaking stealth (sometimes immediately) which makes those skills more awkward to use. Even with only using prestige, sometimes it just breaks instantly making a big waste of 30s cd defensive ability.

It's bad enough that traited axe projectile can break stealth due to hitting a target after a delay, which makes prestige in close range after axe attack require momentary pause to let the axe projectile strike first, but with evasive mirror it can be quite tricky to manage not breaking stealth due to reflects.

I think it's certainly ridiculously powerful in open field with all the pew pew spam going on and perhaps could be shaved slightly in reflect duration, but sometimes I'd say having more stealth (edit - and blinding dissipation, I forgot) can be better for survival and disengage potential.

@"Curunen.8729" said:Out of all the classes, the turning point in the learning curve and corresponding ability of players to fight against mesmer is the most extreme - once they've passed that point the difficulty drastically diminishes.

This. Anyone can pick up Mesmer and crush noobs all day (this statement may be more true for Mes than any other prof). Both sides will think it's OP.

Against good players, one needs to actually know how to play Mes. "Minutes to learn, months to master."

@Curunen.8729 said:

@tinyreborn.1938 said:

@whoknocks.4935 said:After 1vs4 I always had 'gg anet' . Thankfully? xDAlso its aids permareflect trait ... idk how its EVADE all nerfs XD

Sadly you everything I knew long ago and very obvious stuff ...Yet its doesnt justify fact that you get nearly permanent reflect because you dont just used endurance to get it but any 'evade' . Fyi fighting permareflect mirages as axe/x staff which is 100% based on projectiles...Or whatever using ranged weapons mostly MUST either go full melee vs any mesmer build using this trait or run away .Single trait that make projectiles useless and fire them back ...Its remind me stupid dodge stealth trait tbh xD

@tinyreborn.1938 said:

@Curunen.8729 said:

@tinyreborn.1938 said:

@whoknocks.4935 said:After 1vs4 I always had 'gg anet' . Thankfully? xDAlso its aids permareflect trait ... idk how its EVADE all nerfs XD

Of course, perma relfect isn't healthy for the game same as numerous other powercrept mechanics. I am simply pointing out there are some sacrifices/downsides to using it - which you already know. In fact it's the main reason I use sand through glass in wvw instead of signet of midnight - because I have had times using signet of midnight where it is just a glorified blind/stunbreak and the stealth may as well not exist, because of a random reflect breaking it. Nevermind some matchups where it has little value (eg vs melee warrior). I think the trait is conceptually fine beyond perhaps a fractional shave to the reflect duration, if Anet considers it to be an issue. If anything it would be helpful to be able to more easily use stealth around the reflects. For the record as someone who plays axe/torch +staff, I have not had issues landing damage against mirages that have used this trait - at least no issues because of the trait, rather because of other usual things like avoiding damage, cleansing etc.

One other problem (I'm stating this for forum benefit as you probably know this) which fortunately they fixed some time during the year was that the reflect procced from evasive mirror if evading an attack while in front of an opponent with clones behind you would reflect your clone staff ambushes backwards if using IH which while had some funny applications like standing opposite side from a target and reflecting it back through them, but could cause it to block a lot of damage from reaching the target and prevent boon gain. Now fortunately it doesn't do that.

@"Twilight Tempest.7584" mesmer gets a lot of hate from other classes because they don't understand it. When its played well its an exceptional class, and can take you to the top, and ever since mirage was released even a mediocre player can be fairly decent in PvP on mirage (but then again, the same is true for other elite specs, so this is not a mesmer problem).

Now, I main mesmer and I will be the first to tell you, mesmer has absolutely had parts of its class that were broken. Synergies that were ridiculous, traits that never should have made it into the game, a while back now the ridiculousness of chronophantasma and illusionary reversion back when you could shatter both phantasms and clones (which had a whole host of other balance issues mind you). A lot of levelheaded mesmers are always in favor of bringing those in line, because its not fun to play a busted class. However, when deciding how to nerf mesmer (and more rarely deciding how to buff it), ANet never, ever listens to mesmer mains about how to go about this. They listen to people who don't play the class but never stop whining about it. Which means that these players don't actually understand why something is overpowered, and they inevitably want both a huge over-nerf, and the wrong thing nerfed. Anet has gotten better, imo, about not doing the over-nerf for most patches, however they still listne to those other players and nerf the completely wrong aspects ofthe class. This means that underlying issues that made it overpowered are never addressed, which leads mesmer to get nerfed multiple times, usually in a row, to try to get it in line.

Don't expect this behavior to change. Mesmer is a really fun class, but if you can't live with this it is the wrong class for you. Because Anet has shown that this is the only way they are interested in "balancing" the class

The mesmer subforum always was a "to go when stomped" forumi mean you got killed by a deadeye? go on mesmer forum asking for nerf cuz it dodges in one placeYou cant kill a boonbeast? Mesmer has too much surviabilityHolo is too strong? nerf mesmer because of itAll of the people above me seem like they know how it really works. Yes mesmers can/will punish you for bad dodges or full zerker builds, but basically its really hard in beating mesmers maybe the condi one is a bit tricky but usually most of the meta builds can outsustain it.I see a lot of mesmer players rolling onto other classes, but today i still got blamed for my broken class when 1v2d a guardian and a thief. I know that there were times when a mesmer was really good but those times are gone, but people are still living in that, if someone get oneshot by a mesmer its mostly because you play a full glass build or you just dont know how your utility skills work, thats allAfter reading some on the forums, it made me to play more PvP i just want to see the rage in people as they trash talk for playing a OP broken classDear @ANet i think mesmer gets too much fury from Dueling trait line, i would be glad if you would look at that. My suggestion would be that make those trait give self-bleeding instead of fury. Thanks!

@whoknocks.4935 said:

@Nepster.4275 said:Mesmer is no way op, i mean even when EM was in its after nerf state with 3 sec exhaust it was still viable because thats the only normal GM trait in Mirage for sPvP, and mesmer is outscaled by a lot of other classes for example holo no matter what build we take holo has a huge AoE CC, boons, surviability and much more. I seen a lot of people crying mesmer having a button for full invuln i mean it would be a big thing if other classes woudnt have that by a passive(maybe even works better than the Distort). Its just that most of the people crying mesmer is too OP are ones who are around Silver and they meet with a lot of higher rank players who beat them but their mesmer sucks. Its just that mesmer needs time to learn and when someone learned it it was profitable to be used but now its close to unplayable because you just get chased down by a slb or something and get chain locked by any class.Yes mesmer has a huge AoE burst i agree with that, it can melt most of the classes in seconds (sorry, it used to) but that needed a setup and while it was hard to dodge it had a CD on it. The second thing mesmer was ranged okey, and could burst from there, but what it takes to survive it? Basically most of the times your passive traits make you survive it anyway.Mesmer is OP because people cant play against it, and not because its that strong or somethingCondi Mirage is a whole another story, i hope all of the people who were crying for power mesmer bursting them down in one sec now they get bursted down by conditionsFor some reason i dont see anyone cry for 1,5k ranged bursts from DE, perma stealth one shot backstabs, boon slb, the new holo with a lot of boons, power heralds, trapper DH all of these classes are countering mesmer, even reaper does a little, only time i can think of mesmer being OP is when the phantasms got reworked and there was a Disenchanter meta and ofc the confusion sword meta

You mentioned you played for the first time. When I played condi bunker for the first time, I destroyed everything except more experienced condi mesmers.

Btw.: I can't remember one single competent player stating that power shatter mirage is overpowered. It is and has always been a one trick pony countered by one single well timed dodge and a counterburst.

@Curunen.8729 Welcome back. I was beginning to think you quit.

@KrHome.1920 said:

@whoknocks.4935 said:

@"Nepster.4275" said:Mesmer is no way op, i mean even when EM was in its after nerf state with 3 sec exhaust it was still viable because thats the only normal GM trait in Mirage for sPvP, and mesmer is outscaled by a lot of other classes for example holo no matter what build we take holo has a huge AoE CC, boons, surviability and much more. I seen a lot of people crying mesmer having a button for full invuln i mean it would be a big thing if other classes woudnt have that by a passive(maybe even works better than the Distort). Its just that most of the people crying mesmer is too OP are ones who are around Silver and they meet with a lot of higher rank players who beat them but their mesmer sucks. Its just that mesmer needs time to learn and when someone learned it it was profitable to be used but now its close to unplayable because you just get chased down by a slb or something and get chain locked by any class.Yes mesmer has a huge AoE burst i agree with that, it can melt most of the classes in seconds (sorry, it used to) but that needed a setup and while it was hard to dodge it had a CD on it. The second thing mesmer was ranged okey, and could burst from there, but what it takes to survive it? Basically most of the times your passive traits make you survive it anyway.Mesmer is OP because people cant play against it, and not because its that strong or somethingCondi Mirage is a whole another story, i hope all of the people who were crying for power mesmer bursting them down in one sec now they get bursted down by conditionsFor some reason i dont see anyone cry for 1,5k ranged bursts from DE, perma stealth one shot backstabs, boon slb, the new holo with a lot of boons, power heralds, trapper DH all of these classes are countering mesmer, even reaper does a little, only time i can think of mesmer being OP is when the phantasms got reworked and there was a Disenchanter meta and ofc the confusion sword meta

I tried staff but the playstyle is boring, it shines in pvp due to node holding, but in wvw i prefer sword main hand 100% of the times, even just for ambush#1 mobility and "spammable" interrupt and sword2 evade, it's more fun gameplay that allow you to disengage better and be more mobile, staff gameplay is somewhat passive, just spawn the clones and shatter them and autoattack spam, but that's just preference.> @Curunen.8729 said:

@tinyreborn.1938 said:

@Curunen.8729 said:

@tinyreborn.1938 said:

@whoknocks.4935 said:After 1vs4 I always had 'gg anet' . Thankfully? xDAlso its aids permareflect trait ... idk how its EVADE all nerfs XD

Why perma reflect is not healthy for the game when instead exist perma stealth and stealth on dodge which has zero counters in the entire game?You are forced to run it because of deadeyes and rangers around the map; and as you said it has drawbacks too.

People is mad at mirage especially in wvw because they gank you even 5vs1 and if there isn't a thief or mesmer in their comp, you have great chances of getting away and make them cry because they wasted time chasing you.

To be honest i run quite a bit of different professions in wvw for solo roaming, multiclass style, wvw roaming is what i enjoy the most to do in the game, and nothing to say, i wish i gave mirage a try before, i stopped being salty for people who jump 1vs2 against me, because unless they are very good players no way they can kill me unless I make a mistake, i just run away and they cry, i stopped being salty because now i am playing a pure 1vs1 build and i have very good matchups against other roamers.

Why i shouldnt play a class i am having fun with and which is even one of the strongest in its role?

Deadeye is probably even better to roam with, it's number 1 roamer right now, you literally never die unless you decide to die because you too greedy, i tried it myself and even tho it's powerful, it has a playstyle who doesn't fit myself and i dislike it a lot.

For example I dont get why i get always salty whispered by reaper and revenant mains when i kill them... and they ATTACKED ME FIRST.First dear revenants, my class counters yours pretty heavily, especially the condi variant, just accept it and move on, and maybe avoid attack me next time.And dear reapers, your damn class is NOT a 1vs1 spec, but a team fighter spec, how do you expect to win against a 1vs1 duelist build like mine?And this guy who trash talked to me was a mithrill rank main reaper he has no clue about his class role, you can roam with reaper and complain about zero mobility or condi cleanse, but if you are a reaper main you gotta accept that and move on, some builds are not designed for solo roaming and win every 1vs1, that's not my problem is you play a suboptimal roaming build and then complain saying it's my fault for playing mirage, that's stupid.

@KrHome.1920 said:

@whoknocks.4935 said:

@"Nepster.4275" said:Mesmer is no way op, i mean even when EM was in its after nerf state with 3 sec exhaust it was still viable because thats the only normal GM trait in Mirage for sPvP, and mesmer is outscaled by a lot of other classes for example holo no matter what build we take holo has a huge AoE CC, boons, surviability and much more. I seen a lot of people crying mesmer having a button for full invuln i mean it would be a big thing if other classes woudnt have that by a passive(maybe even works better than the Distort). Its just that most of the people crying mesmer is too OP are ones who are around Silver and they meet with a lot of higher rank players who beat them but their mesmer sucks. Its just that mesmer needs time to learn and when someone learned it it was profitable to be used but now its close to unplayable because you just get chased down by a slb or something and get chain locked by any class.Yes mesmer has a huge AoE burst i agree with that, it can melt most of the classes in seconds (sorry, it used to) but that needed a setup and while it was hard to dodge it had a CD on it. The second thing mesmer was ranged okey, and could burst from there, but what it takes to survive it? Basically most of the times your passive traits make you survive it anyway.Mesmer is OP because people cant play against it, and not because its that strong or somethingCondi Mirage is a whole another story, i hope all of the people who were crying for power mesmer bursting them down in one sec now they get bursted down by conditionsFor some reason i dont see anyone cry for 1,5k ranged bursts from DE, perma stealth one shot backstabs, boon slb, the new holo with a lot of boons, power heralds, trapper DH all of these classes are countering mesmer, even reaper does a little, only time i can think of mesmer being OP is when the phantasms got reworked and there was a Disenchanter meta and ofc the confusion sword meta

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:

@whoknocks.4935 said:

@"Nepster.4275" said:Mesmer is no way op, i mean even when EM was in its after nerf state with 3 sec exhaust it was still viable because thats the only normal GM trait in Mirage for sPvP, and mesmer is outscaled by a lot of other classes for example holo no matter what build we take holo has a huge AoE CC, boons, surviability and much more. I seen a lot of people crying mesmer having a button for full invuln i mean it would be a big thing if other classes woudnt have that by a passive(maybe even works better than the Distort). Its just that most of the people crying mesmer is too OP are ones who are around Silver and they meet with a lot of higher rank players who beat them but their mesmer sucks. Its just that mesmer needs time to learn and when someone learned it it was profitable to be used but now its close to unplayable because you just get chased down by a slb or something and get chain locked by any class.Yes mesmer has a huge AoE burst i agree with that, it can melt most of the classes in seconds (sorry, it used to) but that needed a setup and while it was hard to dodge it had a CD on it. The second thing mesmer was ranged okey, and could burst from there, but what it takes to survive it? Basically most of the times your passive traits make you survive it anyway.Mesmer is OP because people cant play against it, and not because its that strong or somethingCondi Mirage is a whole another story, i hope all of the people who were crying for power mesmer bursting them down in one sec now they get bursted down by conditionsFor some reason i dont see anyone cry for 1,5k ranged bursts from DE, perma stealth one shot backstabs, boon slb, the new holo with a lot of boons, power heralds, trapper DH all of these classes are countering mesmer, even reaper does a little, only time i can think of mesmer being OP is when the phantasms got reworked and there was a Disenchanter meta and ofc the confusion sword meta

I'll have to agree to disagree here, Staff is a utility weapon, it should never be used as a purely offensive weapon. It's what you pair with on the off set.

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:

@whoknocks.4935 said:

@"Nepster.4275" said:Mesmer is no way op, i mean even when EM was in its after nerf state with 3 sec exhaust it was still viable because thats the only normal GM trait in Mirage for sPvP, and mesmer is outscaled by a lot of other classes for example holo no matter what build we take holo has a huge AoE CC, boons, surviability and much more. I seen a lot of people crying mesmer having a button for full invuln i mean it would be a big thing if other classes woudnt have that by a passive(maybe even works better than the Distort). Its just that most of the people crying mesmer is too OP are ones who are around Silver and they meet with a lot of higher rank players who beat them but their mesmer sucks. Its just that mesmer needs time to learn and when someone learned it it was profitable to be used but now its close to unplayable because you just get chased down by a slb or something and get chain locked by any class.Yes mesmer has a huge AoE burst i agree with that, it can melt most of the classes in seconds (sorry, it used to) but that needed a setup and while it was hard to dodge it had a CD on it. The second thing mesmer was ranged okey, and could burst from there, but what it takes to survive it? Basically most of the times your passive traits make you survive it anyway.Mesmer is OP because people cant play against it, and not because its that strong or somethingCondi Mirage is a whole another story, i hope all of the people who were crying for power mesmer bursting them down in one sec now they get bursted down by conditionsFor some reason i dont see anyone cry for 1,5k ranged bursts from DE, perma stealth one shot backstabs, boon slb, the new holo with a lot of boons, power heralds, trapper DH all of these classes are countering mesmer, even reaper does a little, only time i can think of mesmer being OP is when the phantasms got reworked and there was a Disenchanter meta and ofc the confusion sword meta

If you talk of sPvP staff mirage is the "meta" to go more than power mirage, only really good mesmer can make work power mirage in high level ranks,

for roaming wvw you can run staff and win almost any 1vs1 at duel spot, but it's slow, boring and takes so much time to kill things and you are less mobile than usual.

It's a comparison like longbow/greatsword soulbeast is better than boonbeast for pure roaming and getting fast kills, but boonbeast is the top 1vs1 spec in the game.

Power mirage is the equivalent of longbow/greatsword soulbeast, and staff condi bunker the equivalent of boonbeast to some extent.

@Arlette.9684 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:

@whoknocks.4935 said:

@"Nepster.4275" said:Mesmer is no way op, i mean even when EM was in its after nerf state with 3 sec exhaust it was still viable because thats the only normal GM trait in Mirage for sPvP, and mesmer is outscaled by a lot of other classes for example holo no matter what build we take holo has a huge AoE CC, boons, surviability and much more. I seen a lot of people crying mesmer having a button for full invuln i mean it would be a big thing if other classes woudnt have that by a passive(maybe even works better than the Distort). Its just that most of the people crying mesmer is too OP are ones who are around Silver and they meet with a lot of higher rank players who beat them but their mesmer sucks. Its just that mesmer needs time to learn and when someone learned it it was profitable to be used but now its close to unplayable because you just get chased down by a slb or something and get chain locked by any class.Yes mesmer has a huge AoE burst i agree with that, it can melt most of the classes in seconds (sorry, it used to) but that needed a setup and while it was hard to dodge it had a CD on it. The second thing mesmer was ranged okey, and could burst from there, but what it takes to survive it? Basically most of the times your passive traits make you survive it anyway.Mesmer is OP because people cant play against it, and not because its that strong or somethingCondi Mirage is a whole another story, i hope all of the people who were crying for power mesmer bursting them down in one sec now they get bursted down by conditionsFor some reason i dont see anyone cry for 1,5k ranged bursts from DE, perma stealth one shot backstabs, boon slb, the new holo with a lot of boons, power heralds, trapper DH all of these classes are countering mesmer, even reaper does a little, only time i can think of mesmer being OP is when the phantasms got reworked and there was a Disenchanter meta and ofc the confusion sword meta

@Arlette.9684 said:@Curunen.8729 Welcome back. I was beginning to think you quit.

Never! :p Just breaks from time to time either due to RL or playing something else - ie Gwent Homecoming at the moment.

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Arlette.9684 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:

@whoknocks.4935 said:

@"Nepster.4275" said:Mesmer is no way op, i mean even when EM was in its after nerf state with 3 sec exhaust it was still viable because thats the only normal GM trait in Mirage for sPvP, and mesmer is outscaled by a lot of other classes for example holo no matter what build we take holo has a huge AoE CC, boons, surviability and much more. I seen a lot of people crying mesmer having a button for full invuln i mean it would be a big thing if other classes woudnt have that by a passive(maybe even works better than the Distort). Its just that most of the people crying mesmer is too OP are ones who are around Silver and they meet with a lot of higher rank players who beat them but their mesmer sucks. Its just that mesmer needs time to learn and when someone learned it it was profitable to be used but now its close to unplayable because you just get chased down by a slb or something and get chain locked by any class.Yes mesmer has a huge AoE burst i agree with that, it can melt most of the classes in seconds (sorry, it used to) but that needed a setup and while it was hard to dodge it had a CD on it. The second thing mesmer was ranged okey, and could burst from there, but what it takes to survive it? Basically most of the times your passive traits make you survive it anyway.Mesmer is OP because people cant play against it, and not because its that strong or somethingCondi Mirage is a whole another story, i hope all of the people who were crying for power mesmer bursting them down in one sec now they get bursted down by conditionsFor some reason i dont see anyone cry for 1,5k ranged bursts from DE, perma stealth one shot backstabs, boon slb, the new holo with a lot of boons, power heralds, trapper DH all of these classes are countering mesmer, even reaper does a little, only time i can think of mesmer being OP is when the phantasms got reworked and there was a Disenchanter meta and ofc the confusion sword meta

If I end up in a situation where I fight a condi Mirage with my roaming Axe build and I force the Power Shatter to gain distance, I just run the other way and reset, then proceeding to taunt him. 9 out of 10 times I never get engaged again. I'm not sure where you're going with this, but as I've said many times... NA and EU Metas play out very differently.

@Arlette.9684 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Arlette.9684 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:

@whoknocks.4935 said:

@"Nepster.4275" said:Mesmer is no way op, i mean even when EM was in its after nerf state with 3 sec exhaust it was still viable because thats the only normal GM trait in Mirage for sPvP, and mesmer is outscaled by a lot of other classes for example holo no matter what build we take holo has a huge AoE CC, boons, surviability and much more. I seen a lot of people crying mesmer having a button for full invuln i mean it would be a big thing if other classes woudnt have that by a passive(maybe even works better than the Distort). Its just that most of the people crying mesmer is too OP are ones who are around Silver and they meet with a lot of higher rank players who beat them but their mesmer sucks. Its just that mesmer needs time to learn and when someone learned it it was profitable to be used but now its close to unplayable because you just get chased down by a slb or something and get chain locked by any class.Yes mesmer has a huge AoE burst i agree with that, it can melt most of the classes in seconds (sorry, it used to) but that needed a setup and while it was hard to dodge it had a CD on it. The second thing mesmer was ranged okey, and could burst from there, but what it takes to survive it? Basically most of the times your passive traits make you survive it anyway.Mesmer is OP because people cant play against it, and not because its that strong or somethingCondi Mirage is a whole another story, i hope all of the people who were crying for power mesmer bursting them down in one sec now they get bursted down by conditionsFor some reason i dont see anyone cry for 1,5k ranged bursts from DE, perma stealth one shot backstabs, boon slb, the new holo with a lot of boons, power heralds, trapper DH all of these classes are countering mesmer, even reaper does a little, only time i can think of mesmer being OP is when the phantasms got reworked and there was a Disenchanter meta and ofc the confusion sword meta

And to be honest even with axe, mirage has enough ports (eg blink, jaunt, illusionary ambush, axe 3, reverse phase retreat) to pressure and burst a power mesmer trying to range unless they swap to sword and mirage thrust into the sunset. Still can be caught although requires a bit of good fortune and porting gymnastics.

The number 1 reason I currently play Mesmer right now is because of insta invites to raids and fractals. It's no longer fun to roam on it, its 1 role in WvW comps is literally absurdly boring, and... Yeah. I don't know.

I won't say I don't "enjoy" playing it. But knowing that it's outclassed in every game mode except PvE (which is beyond faceroll), kinda sucks. Heck, even in PvE, due to people complaining about speedrunners "metas", the class has gotten gutted. This is the lowest amount of build variation we've EVER had with Mesmer. It's not fun, it's rotation is no longer fun.

Same goes for roaming/PvP. We're 1 trick ponies competing against stallions.