WoD + Scourge bomb zerg meta gotta go

WvW zerg fights are becoming really stale these days, it's pretty much who's got more spellbreakers and scourge who wins, the winning side will just steam roll through the other side in seconds

the scourges just hide within chained up WoD bubbles, ranged magic and physical projectiles cannot hit them, while they can spam their shade outside the bubbleand if you are inside the bubble to melee them they just summon more shades inside the bubble or get cut up by other classes as soon as you steps in

Must be incorrect. According to all the warriors, Warrior is dead in Zergs.

@crepuscular.9047 said:WvW zerg fights are becoming really stale these days, it's pretty much who's got more spellbreakers and scourge who wins, the winning side will just steam roll through the other side in seconds

the scourges just hide within chained up WoD bubbles, ranged magic and physical projectiles cannot hit them, while they can spam their shade outside the bubbleand if you are inside the bubble to melee them they just summon more shades inside the bubble or get cut up by other classes as soon as you steps in

The bubbles last what? 5 seconds? Not hard to bypass them. Chained is a different story, but sounds like stepping back would be a good play.

@Strider Pj.2193 said:Must be incorrect. According to all the warriors, Warrior is dead in Zergs.

@crepuscular.9047 said:WvW zerg fights are becoming really stale these days, it's pretty much who's got more spellbreakers and scourge who wins, the winning side will just steam roll through the other side in seconds

the scourges just hide within chained up WoD bubbles, ranged magic and physical projectiles cannot hit them, while they can spam their shade outside the bubbleand if you are inside the bubble to melee them they just summon more shades inside the bubble or get cut up by other classes as soon as you steps in

bubble is only effective for 3 seconds.now. upon drop it does not remove. but it stops u from booning, and then you have 4 seconds, 1 second reaction time of players so it becomes 3.

will show in vid.at end of the week. we fought off two servers with a simple setup of rev and scourge. 13 to 18 vs two 30 to 40 players or so

it is broken. and easy. dropping fbs from calling for setup.

try it. all cele scourge all mara revs

what about reflect? you cant reflect ground target

Scourge is making wvw really boring now.

Nerf firebrand susitain too

and deadeye stealth, mirage burst, holosmith's holographic shockwave, soulbeast burst

The Problem is that anet still didnt balance POF 12 month after release.

in zergs:

Full Minstrel support FB is superior to every other support class in wvw because:

-Druids have heal but no boons-chronos have boons but no heal-some niche builds for example support warri could cleanse a lot of condis, but has neither heal nor boons-or scrapper can heal but has no real booncast for the group

but FB has boons + expecially stabi & resistance + massive heal + massive CC (axe 2, staff 5, F1-3, F3-2, Shield 5)

all of this in one class in 1 build is way too much and make every other supporter redundant.

Spellbreaker can yolopush into 60 men and are nearly unkillable casting their WoD that can kill a whole zerg. you can Escape from 1 wod but if 3 or 4 spellbreaker are pushing you its impossible to dodge 8 times backwards to Escape from every bubble. the Sustain of SB is still beyond broken so they can solo push into 60 men without risk.

scourges in my experience doesnt kill you, cause the dmg Output of them isnt great in 1 spike. its more the boonhate in combination with 12k+ dmg burst from heralds hammer every 4-8 seconds that kills People. the Problem of scourge is that this class is still way too easy to play. stay next to your FB and every 30 seconds cast all shades and wells at once. ….

in roaming:

you have the dominating triad of:

-unkillable mirages because of CC immunity by Mirage cloak. very fast, massive condi bombs, great Sustain

-Soulbeasts that hit you on 1500+ range on AA chain like other classes with their burst skills for 10k dmg because of sick em and many other dmg multiplicators + massive mobility by double swoop on 10 sec cd + Sustain by gs4 block (very short cooldown) and signet of Stone and massive dodge uptime.

-and DE's that are unkillable because you cant kill what you cant see while they oneshoting you out of invis.

@Zero.3871 said:

in roaming:

you have the dominating triad of:

-unkillable mirages because of CC immunity by Mirage cloak. very fast, massive condi bombs, great Sustain

-Soulbeasts that hit you on 1500+ range on AA chain like other classes with their burst skills for 10k dmg because of sick em and many other dmg multiplicators + massive mobility by double swoop on 10 sec cd + Sustain by gs4 block (very short cooldown) and signet of Stone and massive dodge uptime.

-and DE's that are unkillable because you cant kill what you cant see while they oneshoting you out of invis.

Someone should post stats of what they encounter in an evening. I'm guessing power spellbreakers will be at a 5:1 ratio vs condi mirages?

As per usual, there is alot of presupposition here that needs to be wittled out.

The OP is correct in his assumption: WoD and Shades comes with a problem for WvW and makes gameplay stale. In both cases it is a question of balance with both abilities not having enough counters, looking at mechanics alone. For WoD we have already discussed it at length and reducing size has always been the best option since that makes stun breaks eligble counterplay. For Shades I would assume the best approach to be range or cooldown time (perhaps range since present damage may not be enough to warrant cooldown nerfs while range directly affect the pirateshipping).

However, as per usual people go about it the wrong way and look at classes and somehow try to argue class balancing while pointing at their own squads. Squads where commanders build a certain way that is easy to play and no one else takes initiative to do something else. That is one of the major downsides of guilds- or otherwise organized player-groups disappearing even if the game mode is still decently populated. Those players tend to take initiative and organize alternatives that prove the value of other classes. There are plenty of party comps where I would eg., chose other healers over an FB because I want access to the things they have but the FB do not. They even have things valuable in a WoD-shade meta but you have to think outside the most boring brown box to see their value (and accept that said value may not be in the same volume as the meat-and-potatoes classes, the meta-and-potatoes classes heh, but that has always been the case in WvW).

Use more Revenants.

@Lahmia.2193 said:Use more Revenants.

And more chronos and weavers.

@crepuscular.9047 said:WvW zerg fights are becoming really stale these days, it's pretty much who's got more spellbreakers and scourge who wins

If that were true, then no outnumbered zerg would ever win, and yet I've seen it happen many times. Even as a militia I've seen what a skilled commander can accomplish with sheer tactics alone, whether it be baiting the enemy into a choke, setting up a portal bomb, or having the courage / recklessness to charge through the line to break up the enemy's organization.

Even in blob vs blob, I don't think we can entirely dismiss the impact of player skill and leadership. Certainly a team with many SB and Scourge would have a big advantage over a team that has none or very few, but those two professions (oddly you don't mention Firebrand) aren't the sole indicator for success in my opinion.

I don't think that the fights became stale. After the nerf, WOD doesn't hurt as much anymore. With a scrapper in each third group, you can also usually counter corruption nicely... The rev-damage spikes hurt a lot, though... and there is still a stability problem, since there is only little long-lasting fear to be converted.So, for me at least, the stability is the only ciritcal thing at the moment. WOD and necro-corrupt might be reasons, why the stability does not last long enough, but I see more problems in how it is corrupted (all stacks at once) and where it comes from (only guard).Giving more classes better group stability access to be comparable to the guard output or making corrupt only corrupting one stack of stability instead of all would probably be enough to make fights more strategically (and long-lasting) again.

@Sovereign.1093 said:what about reflect? you cant reflect ground targetExcept for throwing elixirs, mortar-skills, flamethrower, granades and engi-pistol skills... poor engis...

@"Zero.3871" said:The Problem is that anet still didnt balance POF 12 month after release.

in zergs:

scrapper can heal but has no real booncast for the groupInfight scrapper groups enjoy the full boon cocktail they would get from a boonshare mesmer. Less might stacks maybe, but more quickness and alacrity. The problem is prefight buffing boons. With purity of purpose you need conditions to get boons.But the main disadvantage is the lack of group stabilty. If there would be a group-share ability for stability (for example "if you grant yourself stability, grant allies 1 stack, too") final-salvo (bulwark+blast+function gyro) and perfectly weighted together with defense field would be enough stability output to bring a group through CC for some time. At the moment only defense field is granting group stability, which is much too less to replace guards.

But at the moment, scrappers don't replace guards, but are taken additionally in zerg compositions anyway. Since 1 scrapper is enough to support 15-20 people, 1-2 scrappers per zerg are usually enough. With ticking superspeed, tanky builds and always avaiable heals and cleanses, they always make a good addition.

Also a holosmith with maraudeur stats, durability rune, anticorrosive armor, hardlight arena, elixir gun, medikit, sword shield and overshield is still the best, in my opinion, for condition removal. In addition brings great CC and damage, but no heal.It might be great to counter the corruption, but since there is so little condition damage these days, I feel more useful as a heal scrapper most of the time.

If you want the current meta to go, at the very least you must describe the new meta you'd like. Otherwise you may get your wish but then be stuck in an even worse meta.

@Strider Pj.2193 said:Must be incorrect. According to all the warriors, Warrior is dead in Zergs.

@crepuscular.9047 said:WvW zerg fights are becoming really stale these days, it's pretty much who's got more spellbreakers and scourge who wins, the winning side will just steam roll through the other side in seconds

the scourges just hide within chained up WoD bubbles, ranged magic and physical projectiles cannot hit them, while they can spam their shade outside the bubbleand if you are inside the bubble to melee them they just summon more shades inside the bubble or get cut up by other classes as soon as you steps in

Hard for some of us to step back since we removed our S key :tongue:

@Shagaliscious.6281 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:Must be incorrect. According to all the warriors, Warrior is dead in Zergs.

@crepuscular.9047 said:WvW zerg fights are becoming really stale these days, it's pretty much who's got more spellbreakers and scourge who wins, the winning side will just steam roll through the other side in seconds

the scourges just hide within chained up WoD bubbles, ranged magic and physical projectiles cannot hit them, while they can spam their shade outside the bubbleand if you are inside the bubble to melee them they just summon more shades inside the bubble or get cut up by other classes as soon as you steps in

i am so proud of you

@aspirine.6852 said:Scourge is making wvw really boring now.

The only reason why scourge is good, is because firebrand has op support.If there wasn't so much support, scourge wouldn't be as good I think, as it's self sustain is laughable

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Zero.3871 said:

in roaming:

you have the dominating triad of:

-unkillable

mirages

because of CC immunity by Mirage cloak. very fast, massive condi bombs, great Sustain

-

Soulbeasts

that hit you on 1500+ range on AA chain like other classes with their burst skills for 10k dmg because of sick em and many other dmg multiplicators + massive mobility by double swoop on 10 sec cd + Sustain by gs4 block (very short cooldown) and signet of Stone and massive dodge uptime.

-and

DE's

that are unkillable because you cant kill what you cant see while they oneshoting you out of invis.

Someone should post stats of what they encounter in an evening. I'm guessing power spellbreakers will be at a 5:1 ratio vs condi mirages?

Last night, this is what I saw when I was roaming for about 1.5 hours:

2x Reapers (1 condi, one hybrid, both high quickness uptime)1x Core necro (condi Minion mancer)3x Spell Breakers (GS/Axe + shield and GS/Hammer)3x Mirages (2 condi, one DPS)1x Firebrand (condi)2x Dragonhunter (GS/LB trapper and Scepter+Focus/GS)1x Deadeye (Typical perma stealth)1x Daredevil (D+P/Staff vault spammer)

These are outside zergs (Small scale and solo/duo roamers)

@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Zero.3871 said:

in roaming:

you have the dominating triad of:

-unkillable

mirages

because of CC immunity by Mirage cloak. very fast, massive condi bombs, great Sustain

-

Soulbeasts

that hit you on 1500+ range on AA chain like other classes with their burst skills for 10k dmg because of sick em and many other dmg multiplicators + massive mobility by double swoop on 10 sec cd + Sustain by gs4 block (very short cooldown) and signet of Stone and massive dodge uptime.

-and

DE's

that are unkillable because you cant kill what you cant see while they oneshoting you out of invis.

Someone should post stats of what they encounter in an evening. I'm guessing power spellbreakers will be at a 5:1 ratio vs condi mirages?

And now you want what? Your "experience" means pretty much nothing for the statistic.

Bubble got nerfed to toilet level. It's just scourges, revs, and firebrand. Also I'd like to see a warrior actually taking down a zerg, I haven't seen a warrior going into an enemy zerg actually do anything to them.

@"aspirine.6852" said:Scourge is making wvw really boring now.

"Now?' Try since PoF release. The "new" WvW meta has sucked since.

Too bad it won't be for another 18 months at least, for a new expansion, because WvW has been a shit show since PoF, and won't likely change until a new meta with new elites comes out.

HoT meta was worse, but that's not saying much. I know many Guilds, GvG or raiding guilds from the past,won't come back, because not much has really changed, apart from the meta being even more AOE dependant.

You're STILL complaining about WoD? LOL

@ProverbsofHell.2307 said:You're STILL complaining about WoD? LOL

Ikr? Should replace the spell breaker with a scourge since they will do more damage, and rip more boons then an SB now...

D: