Does alt considered as smurfing or griefing? Will it become a problem?

For those who don't know what smurfing means....In games where individual elo exist, smurfing means experienced players create another account that has zero record inorder to match with inexperienced players or to game the elo system for his or her amusement.

For those who don't know what griefing means...It is an act of annoying or angering people through the use of various means of the game's aspects which are unintended by the game.

1. Do you consider alt as smurfing? Why?
2. Do you consider alt as griefing? Why?
3. Do you think we should, selectively or not, perm ban alt(s) and temp ban main (as warning) inorder to provide a better gaming environment for all?
4. While we all do not have the statistic of alts, do you think it will become a problem for alliance as it does include those in the mix and match system?

Smurfing in a ladder game is annoying becuase people do it to pick on noobs. But you can't really do that in WvW. I guess people could see you as a low rank and target you but that's hardly the same.

Unless you're actually harassing/sabotoging/breaking the rules and using an alt as cover, I don't think that should be bannable.

Wouldn't targeting a low level specifically because you'd expect an easy fight be greifing? What better recipient of a smurfing could there be?

@LetoII.3782 said:Wouldn't targeting a low level specifically because you'd expect an easy fight be greifing? What better recipient of a smurfing could there be?

Exactly. If you came for an easy kill and get killed, nobody else to blame it on.

So not really sure what the topic is about yet.

Well, define an ‘Alt’.

Most aren’t linked to primary accounts making it effectively a moot point for Anet from an enforcement standpoint.

now i am not sure how playing on alt could be considered griefing as long as you dont, well grief the server they are on ?its is also not smurfing as your rank has nothing to do with the opponents you face.

i have a few alt accounts yet i mostly play them when there is nothing going on in my mains matchup, like when you log on and see your own PPT is 300, then you know you wont face many opponents. but playing on them i miss many QoL items so i dont play them too much.if i had an option to randomly join a more active matchup as a mercenary, like a temporary help to one of the servers there, then i probably wouldnt need my alts.

could you elaborate more what you personally see as an issue in alts? because i dont really see what exactly is bothering you about them. in a zerg fight it hardly matters if i kill a diamond legend or an assaulter and in roaming the rank usually is no sign of competence. if you would like to see some 'romer skilllevel' attached to the nameplate, feel free to make suggestions how the game should determine that.

How a alt can possibility deem as griefing even if you are just playing normally. Let see. For example causing irregularity in population and performance level? I am sure people are not gonna play their alt account all the time, subjective to their main. Therefore the alt servers will have their population and likewise performance fluctuate. While we all do not have the statistic on number of alts there are in every server, we can't say that it doesn't contribute to that irregularity.

About smurfing, well. Yes, WvW indeed does not have a elo system and therefore it is very hard for individuals to judge another individuals skill level. However, because we do not have elo, we can also say that the WvW is inherently skill unbalanced. Does this alt contribute to further this skill imbalance between servers?

@SkyShroud.2865 said:How a alt can possibility deem as griefing even if you are just playing normally. Let see. For example causing irregularity in population and performance level? I am sure people are not gonna play their alt account all the time, subjective to their main. Therefore the alt servers will have their population and likewise performance fluctuate. While we all do not have the statistic on number of alts there are in every server, we can't say that it doesn't contribute to that irregularity.

sure the amount played counts towards the population as during that time you contribute. would you also call somone a griefer who is just plaing irregular with his main account due to RL , mood or whatever?

About smurfing, well. Yes, WvW indeed does not have a elo system and therefore it is very hard for individuals to judge another individuals skill level. However, because we do not have elo, we can also say that the WvW is inherently skill unbalanced. Does this alt contribute to further this skill imbalance between servers?

i dont get your point here sry.

1. No, I know what you mean by saying "alt", but here smurf definition is not accurate.
2. If on alt account you fight against your main account server, then yes, its a bit like griefing.
3. Hell no, the only alt account ban I would like to see is for those spies that purposely pull tactivators.
4. No idea, we barely know anything about what alliances will look like and when we can see it live.

Sometimes its just fun to play with different people, or with friends that are on another server. Its cool and there's nothing wrong with it as long as you don't "play" against server that you are in that moment playing on.

@SkyShroud.2865 said:For those who don't know what smurfing means....In games where individual elo exist, smurfing means experienced players create another account that has zero record inorder to match with inexperienced players or to game the elo system for his or her amusement.

For those who don't know what griefing means...It is an act of annoying or angering people through the use of various means of the game's aspects which are unintended by the game.

1. Do you consider alt as smurfing? Why?
2. Do you consider alt as griefing? Why?
3. Do you think we should, selectively or not, perm ban alt(s) and temp ban main (as warning) inorder to provide a better gaming environment for all?
4. While we all do not have the statistic of alts, do you think it will become a problem for alliance as it does include those in the mix and match system?

Smurfing; No, I don't consider it smurfing. Firstly, there's nothing to gain as the opponent's skill does not vary just because your rank is different. Secondly, if I try to kill something I always give it maximum effort, partially out of respect for the other player and also because I'm far less likely to get caught out for playing badly like that.

Griefing; No. Because of the way I approach fights, if a low rank player catches me out he deserves to win, and if someone underestimates that player because of his rank he deserves to lose.

Bans for alts; lol nope. Look at the practical side of it, how on earth are you going to keep track of what alts people play, through IP addresses? Why would the devs waste time on comparing IP addresses to find people playing alts instead of working on literally anything else? Especially when it's not even a problem?

Alliances; It won't be a problem, because the whole point of alliances is to manage matchup sizes through guilds, not servers, and you will have to choose one guild to base your alliance on. This means it will be waaaaay harder to swap alliances as a solo player, as each alt would need a different set of guilds to guarantee being in a different alliance, and the amount of playtime required on each alt to maintain those guilds if they clean their rotas regularly would defeat the object of having an alt for strategic purposes or otherwise.

@MUDse.7623 said:

@SkyShroud.2865 said:How a alt can possibility deem as griefing even if you are just playing normally. Let see. For example causing irregularity in population and performance level? I am sure people are not gonna play their alt account all the time, subjective to their main. Therefore the alt servers will have their population and likewise performance fluctuate. While we all do not have the statistic on number of alts there are in every server, we can't say that it doesn't contribute to that irregularity.

But the RL dude doesn't have two accounts or more while the other has. The one that does has two accounts or more is actively contributing to this irregularity.

@MUDse.7623 said:

About smurfing, well. Yes, WvW indeed does not have a elo system and therefore it is very hard for individuals to judge another individuals skill level. However, because we do not have elo, we can also say that the WvW is inherently skill unbalanced. Does this alt contribute to further this skill imbalance between servers?

The servers are inherently skills unbalanced because the servers are not made using a competitive matchup system which matchup people of equal skill. In other words, the system its in nature will allow 999 exp players to be one servers while 999 inexp to be in another. Naturally, in such system, the system will quantify the entirety of 999 people as one single entity and give them a so-called elo, in this case a server elo.

Commonly, people who made alt account are not new players, I mean only old players have time for that, wouldn't you agree? This means that the players for whatever reasons they made their alt, chose to go to the servers with 999 exp players, wouldn't that further the skills imbalance between servers while at the same time, actively contributing to irregularity to performance level in both his main and alt server? Therefore, contributing to the win and loss of the said servers thus putting them in a unfavorable or favorable matchup?

@SkyShroud.2865 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@SkyShroud.2865 said:How a alt can possibility deem as griefing even if you are just playing normally. Let see. For example causing irregularity in population and performance level? I am sure people are not gonna play their alt account all the time, subjective to their main. Therefore the alt servers will have their population and likewise performance fluctuate. While we all do not have the statistic on number of alts there are in every server, we can't say that it doesn't contribute to that irregularity.

@MUDse.7623 said:

About smurfing, well. Yes, WvW indeed does not have a elo system and therefore it is very hard for individuals to judge another individuals skill level. However, because we do not have elo, we can also say that the WvW is inherently skill unbalanced. Does this alt contribute to further this skill imbalance between servers?

ok overall alts add irregular contribution to a server, just like any other player. both in time spent on that server aswell as skill level.any alt could aswell be an overperforming casual (assuming that the 'experienced' player actually did improve with the experience).why is the fact that the player behind that account might aswell be playing somewhere else from time to time is such an important factor to you?unless ofc there is 100s of active alts online in a week on a server just to be on their mains the next week, putting that one server in a bad spot for a week. then again people could also transfer, take a week break etc. if they want to manipulate the matches.

@"SkyShroud.2865" said:For those who don't know what smurfing means....In games where individual elo exist, smurfing means experienced players create another account that has zero record inorder to match with inexperienced players or to game the elo system for his or her amusement.

For those who don't know what griefing means...It is an act of annoying or angering people through the use of various means of the game's aspects which are unintended by the game.

1. Do you consider alt as smurfing? Why?
2. Do you consider alt as griefing? Why?
3. Do you think we should, selectively or not, perm ban alt(s) and temp ban main (as warning) inorder to provide a better gaming environment for all?
4. While we all do not have the statistic of alts, do you think it will become a problem for alliance as it does include those in the mix and match system?

1 I think you are making up issues for no real or valid reason.

2 To equate "griefing" as using an alt account to play is pretty far reaching... Try reporting someone for "annoying" or "angering" you because they are using an alt account to play and see how far that gets ya.

3 Why do you think banning a customer, who purchased and uses anet's product within the rules, would be a rational idea?

4 I think you are making up issues for no real or valid reason.

@MUDse.7623 said:

@SkyShroud.2865 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@SkyShroud.2865 said:How a alt can possibility deem as griefing even if you are just playing normally. Let see. For example causing irregularity in population and performance level? I am sure people are not gonna play their alt account all the time, subjective to their main. Therefore the alt servers will have their population and likewise performance fluctuate. While we all do not have the statistic on number of alts there are in every server, we can't say that it doesn't contribute to that irregularity.

@MUDse.7623 said:

About smurfing, well. Yes, WvW indeed does not have a elo system and therefore it is very hard for individuals to judge another individuals skill level. However, because we do not have elo, we can also say that the WvW is inherently skill unbalanced. Does this alt contribute to further this skill imbalance between servers?

No, alts actively contribute to irregularity, they are not just any other players who play at randomly.Actually, there were cases like that but they got tired of doing that after awhile.Like I have said, I don't have the statistic (neither do anyone) but if the number of alts do amount to the point that they can change the flow of the matchup, wouldn't that be bad for the game mode, putting servers at tier they should not be at?

@Swagger.1459 said:

@SkyShroud.2865 said:For those who don't know what smurfing means....In games where individual elo exist, smurfing means experienced players create another account that has zero record inorder to match with inexperienced players or to game the elo system for his or her amusement.

For those who don't know what griefing means...It is an act of annoying or angering people through the use of various means of the game's aspects which are unintended by the game.

1. Do you consider alt as smurfing? Why?
2. Do you consider alt as griefing? Why?
3. Do you think we should, selectively or not, perm ban alt(s) and temp ban main (as warning) inorder to provide a better gaming environment for all?
4. While we all do not have the statistic of alts, do you think it will become a problem for alliance as it does include those in the mix and match system?

Oh? In non-mmo games, mutiplayer games like RTS etc. Alt accounts are also viewed as griefers, other than, commonly smurfing. Simply because they are actively disrupting the matchup balance. And they do perm ban the alt accounts while doing a temp ban on the main.

@SkyShroud.2865 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@SkyShroud.2865 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@SkyShroud.2865 said:How a alt can possibility deem as griefing even if you are just playing normally. Let see. For example causing irregularity in population and performance level? I am sure people are not gonna play their alt account all the time, subjective to their main. Therefore the alt servers will have their population and likewise performance fluctuate. While we all do not have the statistic on number of alts there are in every server, we can't say that it doesn't contribute to that irregularity.

@MUDse.7623 said:

About smurfing, well. Yes, WvW indeed does not have a elo system and therefore it is very hard for individuals to judge another individuals skill level. However, because we do not have elo, we can also say that the WvW is inherently skill unbalanced. Does this alt contribute to further this skill imbalance between servers?

if the matchups would be balanced otherwise and winning them would matter to anyone etc. then yes it would be bad. but you would need an enourmous amount of coordinated alts to achieve that. yet i dont think the matches will ever be balanced as long as it is 168 hours matches with so many participants, thats just not possible - so i guess it doesnt really matter. but the as it cannot be balanced in its current design should be pushed to be encounter based instead of matchup. then one would balance differently with less QQ and one could reward winning encounters actually more, but guess thats also not going to happen. so WvW will remain the game mode that is not played as it intended as its core design is flawed.

@SkyShroud.2865 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@SkyShroud.2865 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@SkyShroud.2865 said:How a alt can possibility deem as griefing even if you are just playing normally. Let see. For example causing irregularity in population and performance level? I am sure people are not gonna play their alt account all the time, subjective to their main. Therefore the alt servers will have their population and likewise performance fluctuate. While we all do not have the statistic on number of alts there are in every server, we can't say that it doesn't contribute to that irregularity.

@MUDse.7623 said:

About smurfing, well. Yes, WvW indeed does not have a elo system and therefore it is very hard for individuals to judge another individuals skill level. However, because we do not have elo, we can also say that the WvW is inherently skill unbalanced. Does this alt contribute to further this skill imbalance between servers?

@Swagger.1459 said:

@SkyShroud.2865 said:For those who don't know what smurfing means....In games where individual elo exist, smurfing means experienced players create another account that has zero record inorder to match with inexperienced players or to game the elo system for his or her amusement.

For those who don't know what griefing means...It is an act of annoying or angering people through the use of various means of the game's aspects which are unintended by the game.

1. Do you consider alt as smurfing? Why?
2. Do you consider alt as griefing? Why?
3. Do you think we should, selectively or not, perm ban alt(s) and temp ban main (as warning) inorder to provide a better gaming environment for all?
4. While we all do not have the statistic of alts, do you think it will become a problem for alliance as it does include those in the mix and match system?

The devs only care about match up manipulation for spvp… where there are tournaments and ladders and player rankings... https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/32066/recent-pvp-match-manipulation

Think you have a very skewed view of what wvw is. Can't believe you would actually bring up banning accounts of paying customers in a mode like this... Good luck trying to sell the devs on banning accounts because they "annoy" you in wvw…

@MUDse.7623 said:

@SkyShroud.2865 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@SkyShroud.2865 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@SkyShroud.2865 said:How a alt can possibility deem as griefing even if you are just playing normally. Let see. For example causing irregularity in population and performance level? I am sure people are not gonna play their alt account all the time, subjective to their main. Therefore the alt servers will have their population and likewise performance fluctuate. While we all do not have the statistic on number of alts there are in every server, we can't say that it doesn't contribute to that irregularity.

@MUDse.7623 said:

About smurfing, well. Yes, WvW indeed does not have a elo system and therefore it is very hard for individuals to judge another individuals skill level. However, because we do not have elo, we can also say that the WvW is inherently skill unbalanced. Does this alt contribute to further this skill imbalance between servers?

I can't argue back if you put it that way. Sad.

@Swagger.1459 said:

@SkyShroud.2865 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@SkyShroud.2865 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@SkyShroud.2865 said:How a alt can possibility deem as griefing even if you are just playing normally. Let see. For example causing irregularity in population and performance level? I am sure people are not gonna play their alt account all the time, subjective to their main. Therefore the alt servers will have their population and likewise performance fluctuate. While we all do not have the statistic on number of alts there are in every server, we can't say that it doesn't contribute to that irregularity.

@MUDse.7623 said:

About smurfing, well. Yes, WvW indeed does not have a elo system and therefore it is very hard for individuals to judge another individuals skill level. However, because we do not have elo, we can also say that the WvW is inherently skill unbalanced. Does this alt contribute to further this skill imbalance between servers?

@Swagger.1459 said:

@SkyShroud.2865 said:For those who don't know what smurfing means....In games where individual elo exist, smurfing means experienced players create another account that has zero record inorder to match with inexperienced players or to game the elo system for his or her amusement.

For those who don't know what griefing means...It is an act of annoying or angering people through the use of various means of the game's aspects which are unintended by the game.

1. Do you consider alt as smurfing? Why?
2. Do you consider alt as griefing? Why?
3. Do you think we should, selectively or not, perm ban alt(s) and temp ban main (as warning) inorder to provide a better gaming environment for all?
4. While we all do not have the statistic of alts, do you think it will become a problem for alliance as it does include those in the mix and match system?

You are suggesting that the people who got banned in the other games for playing alt are not paying customers..... /shrug

It all depends if anet view this as a casual mode or competitive mode.

@SkyShroud.2865 said:It all depends if anet view this as a casual mode or competitive mode.

the game is a casual game, the mode is an extension to PvE. we are all PvE players here.

By "alt", you mean ALTernative accounts?If yes:1) Yes, making an alt and playing WvW (or PvP) is the exact definition of smurfing.2) No, I don't see how making a 2nd account would make griefing easier/different from griefing with a main account.3) Absolutely not for smurfing (I don't see anything too bad in it, ranking will eventually settle on the range of main account's one after few matches), moreover it would be hard to ascertain if a new account is an alt or just a new account, good results in competitive modes don't prove anything;yes for grifieng but just like main accounts, I may do griefing with both main and alt and they both deserve the same treatment, which may range from no ban to a temporary ban depending of cases at hand, though permanent is too harsh im any case for this imho.4) I doubt it, most people don't have alts and a big part of those who have it only use it for farming dailies and cheap rewards.

@SkyShroud.2865 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@SkyShroud.2865 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@SkyShroud.2865 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@SkyShroud.2865 said:How a alt can possibility deem as griefing even if you are just playing normally. Let see. For example causing irregularity in population and performance level? I am sure people are not gonna play their alt account all the time, subjective to their main. Therefore the alt servers will have their population and likewise performance fluctuate. While we all do not have the statistic on number of alts there are in every server, we can't say that it doesn't contribute to that irregularity.

@MUDse.7623 said:

About smurfing, well. Yes, WvW indeed does not have a elo system and therefore it is very hard for individuals to judge another individuals skill level. However, because we do not have elo, we can also say that the WvW is inherently skill unbalanced. Does this alt contribute to further this skill imbalance between servers?

@Swagger.1459 said:

@SkyShroud.2865 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@SkyShroud.2865 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@SkyShroud.2865 said:How a alt can possibility deem as griefing even if you are just playing normally. Let see. For example causing irregularity in population and performance level? I am sure people are not gonna play their alt account all the time, subjective to their main. Therefore the alt servers will have their population and likewise performance fluctuate. While we all do not have the statistic on number of alts there are in every server, we can't say that it doesn't contribute to that irregularity.

@MUDse.7623 said:

About smurfing, well. Yes, WvW indeed does not have a elo system and therefore it is very hard for individuals to judge another individuals skill level. However, because we do not have elo, we can also say that the WvW is inherently skill unbalanced. Does this alt contribute to further this skill imbalance between servers?

@Swagger.1459 said:

@SkyShroud.2865 said:For those who don't know what smurfing means....In games where individual elo exist, smurfing means experienced players create another account that has zero record inorder to match with inexperienced players or to game the elo system for his or her amusement.

For those who don't know what griefing means...It is an act of annoying or angering people through the use of various means of the game's aspects which are unintended by the game.

1. Do you consider alt as smurfing? Why?
2. Do you consider alt as griefing? Why?
3. Do you think we should, selectively or not, perm ban alt(s) and temp ban main (as warning) inorder to provide a better gaming environment for all?
4. While we all do not have the statistic of alts, do you think it will become a problem for alliance as it does include those in the mix and match system?

I honestly don't care what happens in other games to alt accounts.

Are you saying that you really can't draw a distinction between wvw and STRUCTURED pvp here? Are you not aware that the last tournament was in 2014? Are you really that hung up on "winning" a match that you are pulling out all stops, and actually suggest BANNING players for playing, to compete in a casual mode?

I think you need to learn what wvw and spvp are so you can understand the differences...

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/World_versus_World

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Structured_PvP

Edit- And I can guarantee that when a dev reads posts like these in the wvw section it just reinforces their decision to not have tournaments.

There are reasons why the devs made skirmishes and created personal rewards, as opposed to seasons or tournaments and “winner” reward structures...

I've been ganged up on and tombstoned by high ranking players more often on my bronze alt than I ever have been on my main Plat account. Ask me these questions and it comes across as not a problem of who might be on the other side of the lowbies monitor, but a problem of why this lowbie is being attacked in the first place and why banning fake lowbies would be good for real lowbies.

@SkyShroud.2865 said:

1. Do you consider alt as smurfing? Why?
2. Do you consider alt as griefing? Why?
3. Do you think we should, selectively or not, perm ban alt(s) and temp ban main (as warning) inorder to provide a better gaming environment for all?
4. While we all do not have the statistic of alts, do you think it will become a problem for alliance as it does include those in the mix and match system?

1. In PVP sure, but free alt would not cut it (not fully) since it only gives core. In WvW there is no such thing.
2. Abusing tactivators yes, spying to some degree also, noting beyond that in WvW
3. No, the real harm is only from tactivators and it should be dealt with in some other way
4. That might be already a solution to tactivators_pulling by itself, so if anything it can solve the only existing problem with alts

@"Widmo.3186" said:

Sometimes its just fun to play with different people, or with friends that are on another server. Its cool and there's nothing wrong with it as long as you don't "play" against server that you are in that moment playing on.

Sometimes I play on my alt against the server my main is on. Got to max those pips and get the weekly tickets somehow.When i'm on my alt I play the same as I do on my main. And it's fun against my main server, seeing who is as good as they think they are or who knows my alt and can get me.

There's nothing inherently wrong with having multiple accounts.

@Celsith.2753 said:

@"Widmo.3186" said:

Sometimes its just fun to play with different people, or with friends that are on another server. Its cool and there's nothing wrong with it as long as you don't "play" against server that you are in that moment playing on.

You’ve got me wrong, by saying „play against the server you are atm on” i meant griefing. For example in MU theres Server 1 and Server 2. Your main is on S1 but you log to alt char on S2 and spend supps, pull tactivators, fake scout reports, troll tags, build useless sieges etc.

@Widmo.3186 said:

You’ve got me wrong, by saying „play against the server you are atm on” i meant griefing. For example in MU theres Server 1 and Server 2. Your main is on S1 but you log to alt char on S2 and spend supps, pull tactivators, fake scout reports, troll tags, build useless sieges etc.

Ah I see! People should be banned for that.