in raids. i get kicked everytime by people using ARCdps. why are they allowed to see my dps? - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

in raids. i get kicked everytime by people using ARCdps. why are they allowed to see my dps?

2

Answers

  • Grogba.6204Grogba.6204 Member ✭✭✭

    I imagine 6k dps per player in the last phase would end up killing the group due to strain from mechanics before enrage hits.

  • mindcircus.1506mindcircus.1506 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Blake.1908 said:
    I play my own style making me as a player unique, yes I do have not so good dps, but I have a bunch of other great attributes, so my questions are as follow
    1: why are people allowed to see my dps? it is my account and allowing others to see what happens on my account is in my opinion not fair.
    2: if i dont want to run Beserker stats on my warrior (meaning I don't do enough dps) then am I not entitled to get my legendary armor?
    3: players say guild wars is a game about player skill... uh so wheres the "player skill" in pressing what a website says you must press? isn't that the same as bot... hmm makes it pretty hard to mess up... might aswell use macro's because its the same keys over and over, I mean who will ever know
    4: and last question is... instead of making it so that players have to depend on each others healing/damage buff's. why not make it an individual thing? (will add some competitivity)

    thank you in advance for any feedback

    1. You are in group content. If your build brings nothing to the fight, (if your DPS build isn't doing DPS) what specifically gives you the right to be carried? Arenanet has decided that Arc is fair game. It's not your DPS, it's your contribution to the group's DPS and as such the group has every right to know if you are holding up your end.
      Post your "unique" build. Let's see if your "own style" actually brings any other great attributes to the team.
    2. There are plenty of stat sets that can offer acceptable DPS. Or you using one of those or are you one of those players showing up for a rain an a mismatched collection of Rares and uncommons?
    3. Have you ever tried to hit a good skill rotation in the middle of a fight?
    4. This is Group Content. Just because you dont want to play support doesn't mean no one else does. Why marginalize those players just because you want to be "unique"?

    What's clear from your post is you don't play much group content and have decided that rather that do your job in the group adequately (and conform to the expectations of 4-9 other people relying on you), you have hopped on the forums to argue about why you should be carried. It's typical of a huge number of players in this community who believe that just showing up and tagging a boss is good enough for top tier rewards in this game.
    It's not.
    Nor should it be.

    I'm starting to think this is indeed a troll looking for a slot on one of Nike's raid rant videos.

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    You could also save up some gold and pay for a carry too. Options.

  • Zunki.3916Zunki.3916 Member ✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Tyson.5160 said:

    @zombyturtle.5980 said:

    @Blake.1908 said:
    i understand that people prefer the tried and trusted and i have no issue with the players in raids, my real issue is the content that is restricted to that, im sure a lot of people want the legendary armor but cant get it because they cannot raid, i would just like to be able to get my armor even if its in a different way or even another armor set that has some good looking features because lets be honest the WvW/pvp armor doesn't look nearly as good as the raid armor, its like they put 0 effort into them. i say add a Pve armor set make it grindy sure i still don't mind, but atleast then i know i am able to obtain it the same way i was able to make 7 legendary weapons

    If you want the shiny raid skin, then you have to put in the effort to raid. If you just want non ugly legendary armor, you can craft wvw or pvp then reskin it with your favorite pve cosmetics.

    Raid bosses have an enrage timer, meaning they will wipe your group if you dont kill them in time. If you dont deal enough damage, you wont kill them in time. You need to find a build that deals enough damage to beat the timer. Your build right now isnt working for that. Groups have a right to replace you if your personal performance is bad enough to cause failure.

    Just an FYI, but PvP is releasing a new shiny skin on November 13, that can be converted into a Legendary status item.

    But we also know, that the actual legendary unique skins for wvw and spvp aren't going to happen, and that the legendary armor for both of those modes was allowed only under this (no unique skin) requirement. And only because they neither count for already existing legendary armor achievement, nor have they their own achieves.

    At this point it is the other way round: WvW and PvP get their legendary skin without the need to upgrade it to actual legendary status for some currency.
    It's just like if the PvE leg armor precursor would be the same skin as the actual leg armor, you have your skins, with pretty neat effects. It's just not legendary stat swap to begin with, but can be upgraded.
    What's better is for you to decide, I think it's fair that you can show your dedication to the gamemmode with the skin without being forced to also have the currency to upgrade it, but it also makes it "easier" to get, but the complaining about the lack of PvP/WvW leg armors is getting old....

    Viable != Optimal

    Not viable = You only get carried, 10 players with a build as "viable as yours" can't properly do it.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Zunki.3916 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Tyson.5160 said:

    @zombyturtle.5980 said:

    @Blake.1908 said:
    i understand that people prefer the tried and trusted and i have no issue with the players in raids, my real issue is the content that is restricted to that, im sure a lot of people want the legendary armor but cant get it because they cannot raid, i would just like to be able to get my armor even if its in a different way or even another armor set that has some good looking features because lets be honest the WvW/pvp armor doesn't look nearly as good as the raid armor, its like they put 0 effort into them. i say add a Pve armor set make it grindy sure i still don't mind, but atleast then i know i am able to obtain it the same way i was able to make 7 legendary weapons

    If you want the shiny raid skin, then you have to put in the effort to raid. If you just want non ugly legendary armor, you can craft wvw or pvp then reskin it with your favorite pve cosmetics.

    Raid bosses have an enrage timer, meaning they will wipe your group if you dont kill them in time. If you dont deal enough damage, you wont kill them in time. You need to find a build that deals enough damage to beat the timer. Your build right now isnt working for that. Groups have a right to replace you if your personal performance is bad enough to cause failure.

    Just an FYI, but PvP is releasing a new shiny skin on November 13, that can be converted into a Legendary status item.

    But we also know, that the actual legendary unique skins for wvw and spvp aren't going to happen, and that the legendary armor for both of those modes was allowed only under this (no unique skin) requirement. And only because they neither count for already existing legendary armor achievement, nor have they their own achieves.

    At this point it is the other way round: WvW and PvP get their legendary skin without the need to upgrade it to actual legendary status for some currency.
    It's just like if the PvE leg armor precursor would be the same skin as the actual leg armor, you have your skins, with pretty neat effects. It's just not legendary stat swap to begin with, but can be upgraded.
    What's better is for you to decide, I think it's fair that you can show your dedication to the gamemmode with the skin without being forced to also have the currency to upgrade it, but it also makes it "easier" to get, but the complaining about the lack of PvP/WvW leg armors is getting old....

    Agreed, and it once again brings up the topic of, why does spvp get a legendary to begin with? Absolutely useless for the game mode. If at all spvp should have gotten an amazing skin for very devoted players, would have made way more sense game mode wise.

    The only reason for the spvp legendary armor availability is to bring players into the game mode which don't actually want to be there. We could start an entire argument on if that is a good or bad idea alone.

    As such my position is, and this thread derailed heavily by now, let people be happy with what they have and hope that spvp and wvw (biased here, way more of a wvw player than spvp) get some much needed love game mode wise (not only rewards).

  • sarkysek.1085sarkysek.1085 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 12, 2018

    Delete raids from the game and ban all third-party software users. Case solved nice and easy. Raids have no place in GW2, nor do DPS meters.

  • Hex.2579Hex.2579 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 16, 2018

    As someone who in an off meta static, i can tell ya that dps is important.
    The websites help players to understand which are damaging skills and you can do this, do that to create a rotation loop. In time, you'll get better as your muscle memory remembers everything.
    However, like me and my friends, we'd have to spend extra time, even golds to test other options, figure out your own rotation. I wouldn't recommend it to anybody. But hey i like that and we just have to switch trinkets to get back to wvw. Kinda convenient. Plus you don't change with the meta unless something worthy come out. Like rune/sigil rework.
    The dps meter pull data from Anet. So there's nothing against you.

    As a dps, you have to perform your part to a certain degree. Noone would expect you to hit the benchmark but at least reasonable so that you pull your own weight.
    If you can't dps, you could play support. And these roles are harder. Mechanics that you have to do alone. But you'd still get your leggy armor. Just need more practice.

    It's teamwork so we rely on each other boons/heal. So as a dps, people could rest assure that they're covered and can focus their skills instead of running around trying to heal themselves.

  • lodjur.1284lodjur.1284 Member ✭✭✭

    @Blake.1908 said:

    I play my own style making me as a player unique, yes I do have not so good dps, but I have a bunch of other great attributes, so my questions are as follow
    1: why are people allowed to see my dps? it is my account and allowing others to see what happens on my account is in my opinion not fair.

    If you are a warrior in raids the only real contributions you have to a fight in raids is Banners, Empower Allies, DPS and some boonhate (for fights where it matters).

    The DPS is not on your account, it is towards the boss, from your account. This basically reads as "I am aware of that I am performing poorly, I don't want people to see it however so I can leech of them and get what I want without contributing".

    2: if i dont want to run Beserker stats on my warrior (meaning I don't do enough dps) then am I not entitled to get my legendary armor?

    You are entitled only to a chance to earn it like everyone else. You are entitled to have the ability to make your own groups where you call the shots.
    You are not entitled to people not kicking you if they don't want you in the group. Whoever is raid leader is entitled to kick whoever they want to, if people don't like it they are entitled the right to leave the group .

    3: players say guild wars is a game about player skill... uh so wheres the "player skill" in pressing what a website says you must press? isn't that the same as bot... hmm makes it pretty hard to mess up... might aswell use macro's because its the same keys over and over, I mean who will ever know

    That would be all of PvE more or less?

    4: and last question is... instead of making it so that players have to depend on each others healing/damage buff's. why not make it an individual thing? (will add some competitivity)

    Because this is raids. They are group content, group content is supposed to be made for groups, the only way to change this would be to remove support builds, which would kill the desire for many people to play PvE at all.

    Ögonen omges av vita och svarta penseldrag som gör att de ser större ut än vad de egentligen är. Baksidan av lodjurets öron kantas av svart päls som slutar i den karaktäristiska tofsen högst upp på örat. Lodjurets svans är kortare än de flesta andra kattdjurs.

  • DiZ.1086DiZ.1086 Member ✭✭

    I agree with everything the OP says. I don't play raids so I can only talk about my experiences in fractals and I can tell the elitist attitude of some players is really annoying. I have been getting kicked from groups lately because of my 'low dps'. This is strange to me because in groups with normal people I don't have any problem and we clear the fractals in a decent time. FYI I run a full berserk stats herald. This isnt considered to be a meta build anymore on sites like metabattle but who cares? I still love playing the build and IMO that's the thing that should matter the most in PVE. Therefor I also don't like people getting information on my performances. In the end, this is just a game and people should be able to play it as they like.

  • Belorn.2659Belorn.2659 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 19, 2018

    @Blake.1908 said:
    I play my own style making me as a player unique

    You are not unique. It might sound harsh but every role and player is replaceable.

    yes I do have not so good dps, but I have a bunch of other great attributes

    What attributes do you bring? A raid encounter has mechanics that get solved by matching a number of successful combined attributes of the players in the squad. If an encounter has a mechanic of CC then the squad need to bring a combined amount of CC dealing skills or the mechanic fails and the teams die. A great attribute is ones that solve the mechanics of the raid, and bad attributes are those that do not solve the mechanics. Warrior is commonly given the role of bringing CC to counter CC mechanics and DPS and DPS boosters to counter DPS mechanics. All other attributes that do not contribute to solving the mechanics of the raid are by definition worthless, not unique.

    1: why are people allowed to see my dps? it is my account and allowing others to see what happens on my account is in my opinion not fair.

    Every player in the squad can see the mechanics being solved in a raid encounter. They can see who has highest toughness, who has low health, high health, has poison, get teleported and so on. DPS is just one of many mechanics that a squad need to solve, so why would you want to make it harder for the group to see if they are succeeding with the mechanic?

    2: if i dont want to run Beserker stats on my warrior (meaning I don't do enough dps) then am I not entitled to get my legendary armor?

    As many other players has said, you are not entitled to having 9 other players help you get your legendary armor. If you want to dictate the ways you get your armor, either form your own group or pay up. Just like real life, if you want people to work together you either pay, cooperate as a group, or dictate the terms and hope others will accept them.

    3: players say guild wars is a game about player skill... uh so wheres the "player skill" in pressing what a website says you must press? isn't that the same as bot... hmm makes it pretty hard to mess up... might aswell use macro's because its the same keys over and over, I mean who will ever know

    A raid encounter has a long list of mechanics, one is DPS. if you don't want to do DPS then switch to a role that deal with other mechanics. Anet has so far not made a raid boss without a DPS mechanic so you can always wish that anet make one.

    4: and last question is... instead of making it so that players have to depend on each others healing/damage buff's. why not make it an individual thing? (will add some competitivity)

    There is a easy individual way to get this. Pay others to do it for you. Raid is a team activity so its pay or cooperate.

  • Hyper Cutter.9376Hyper Cutter.9376 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @thrag.9740 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:
    Many people don't like the idea that anyone can just buy a legendary with gold (generation I) and many don't like the idea that legendary armor is just a matter of grind (gen I & II). "Legendary" to some folks means something requiring more than showing up at the right place on enough occasions.

    Sure, but then you dig deeper, and realize that the envoy armor doesn't fit their definition of "legendary" either.

    Which also speaks against the OP's argument.

    The point remains: envoy armor is a skin that was specifically designed as a reward for those committing to so-called challenging group content. For those without inherent interest, there are two choices: don't try it (giving up on the skins) or take a stab (after which one might decide it is fun or that it's worth pushing through or give up on it).

    They also have the option of buying raid kills. If you buy just enough to get the collections done, and then just grind to 150 LI from MO,escort, and trio weekly, it only doubles the cost and takes around 10 months. This is a pretty reasonable way for a non-raider to get the armor.

    Listen to yourself. The "reasonable" way for a non-raider to get legendary armor should be to craft it, same as the weapons. There is literally no reason the acquisition of the two should be different, unlike every other tier of gear.

  • DiZ.1086DiZ.1086 Member ✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @DiZ.1086 said:
    I agree with everything the OP says. I don't play raids so I can only talk about my experiences in fractals and I can tell the elitist attitude of some players is really annoying. I have been getting kicked from groups lately because of my 'low dps'. This is strange to me because in groups with normal people I don't have any problem and we clear the fractals in a decent time. FYI I run a full berserk stats herald. This isnt considered to be a meta build anymore on sites like metabattle but who cares? I still love playing the build and IMO that's the thing that should matter the most in PVE. Therefor I also don't like people getting information on my performances. In the end, this is just a game and people should be able to play it as they like.

    While I feel your pain, let me repeat what you said though:

    @DiZ.1086 said:
    In the end, this is just a game and people should be able to play it as they like.

    This goes both ways, you get to play the game the way you like and other people get to play the game how they like. If you play with like minded people who do not care as much about peak performance, then all is fine. Why do suddenly players who want better performance be forced to adapt to your play-style?

    Isn't that a double standard?

    EDIT: and just to be clear, arcdps tells people NOTHING about your gear or build or setup. It merely gives an indicator of your performance. As such you are given as much freedom as possible to be creative, as long as your performance is up to par (and par is very VERY low in pug groups). This is most evident for people who run their own off meta builds and no one ever notices.

    You make a valid point but I am afraid you are mixing some things up. Of course I have nothing against people playing with metabuilds. However, the whole discussion was about how people interact with each other in PUG. If people want to play in optimized groups thats their choice but I just feel like in PUG you should be prepared to have people with you that run builds they love playing and aren't rly the best of the best. You don't have to go around kicking people for that.

  • lodjur.1284lodjur.1284 Member ✭✭✭

    @Hyper Cutter.9376 said:

    Listen to yourself. The "reasonable" way for a non-raider to get legendary armor should be to craft it, same as the weapons. There is literally no reason the acquisition of the two should be different, unlike every other tier of gear.

    Some items requires you to do map completion, some force you to do sPvP, some WvW and others Raids. Just because item A can be acquired one way doesn't mean item B should be acquirable the same way. Legendary is not another tier of gear, legendary is a huge "waste" of gold for a minor convenience. Even so you can get legendary armor currently from sPvP and WvW too. I hardly see how this is a problem.

    Ögonen omges av vita och svarta penseldrag som gör att de ser större ut än vad de egentligen är. Baksidan av lodjurets öron kantas av svart päls som slutar i den karaktäristiska tofsen högst upp på örat. Lodjurets svans är kortare än de flesta andra kattdjurs.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 20, 2018

    When for most pve players the most reasonable source of a legendary armor is a pvp content, even when a pve armor does exist, something is wrong.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • @Hyper Cutter.9376 said:
    There is literally no reason the acquisition of the two should be different, unlike every other tier of gear.

    There literally is a reason: it's a reward for raiding.

    And incidentally, you do craft legendary armor; the recipes are unlocked via collections which are completed primarily (not exclusively) through raiding, as well as one of the mats/currencies. It requires a lot of PvE, too.

    Hype is the path to the dark side. Hype leads to unfulfilled expectations. Disappointment leads to anger. Anger leads to disgust. Disgust leads to "oh, new shinies! I'm back!"

  • thrag.9740thrag.9740 Member ✭✭✭

    @Hyper Cutter.9376 said:

    @thrag.9740 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:
    Many people don't like the idea that anyone can just buy a legendary with gold (generation I) and many don't like the idea that legendary armor is just a matter of grind (gen I & II). "Legendary" to some folks means something requiring more than showing up at the right place on enough occasions.

    Sure, but then you dig deeper, and realize that the envoy armor doesn't fit their definition of "legendary" either.

    Which also speaks against the OP's argument.

    The point remains: envoy armor is a skin that was specifically designed as a reward for those committing to so-called challenging group content. For those without inherent interest, there are two choices: don't try it (giving up on the skins) or take a stab (after which one might decide it is fun or that it's worth pushing through or give up on it).

    They also have the option of buying raid kills. If you buy just enough to get the collections done, and then just grind to 150 LI from MO,escort, and trio weekly, it only doubles the cost and takes around 10 months. This is a pretty reasonable way for a non-raider to get the armor.

    Listen to yourself. The "reasonable" way for a non-raider to get legendary armor should be to craft it, same as the weapons. There is literally no reason the acquisition of the two should be different, unlike every other tier of gear.

    The method I described above is the crafting method....Do you not know that legendary armor is crafted?

  • @Blake.1908 said:
    I play my own style making me as a player unique, yes I do have not so good dps, but I have a bunch of other great attributes, so my questions are as follow
    1: why are people allowed to see my dps? it is my account and allowing others to see what happens on my account is in my opinion not fair.
    2: if i dont want to run Beserker stats on my warrior (meaning I don't do enough dps) then am I not entitled to get my legendary armor?
    3: players say guild wars is a game about player skill... uh so wheres the "player skill" in pressing what a website says you must press? isn't that the same as bot... hmm makes it pretty hard to mess up... might aswell use macro's because its the same keys over and over, I mean who will ever know
    4: and last question is... instead of making it so that players have to depend on each others healing/damage buff's. why not make it an individual thing? (will add some competitivity)

    thank you in advance for any feedback

    I completely agree with you, Iam quite new player (about 330hours in), playing mirage and I am still learning new things. I recently went to Jahai and started closing those rift where there are hordes of creatures and a boss, I found out that with my build I am able to deal all by myself without dieing (actualy without a problem, just requires sashing buttons for a while) yet I think I would get kicked from raids too because people are like you need to play meta or you are useless.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 20, 2018

    @Vashan.3098 said:

    @Blake.1908 said:
    I play my own style making me as a player unique, yes I do have not so good dps, but I have a bunch of other great attributes, so my questions are as follow
    1: why are people allowed to see my dps? it is my account and allowing others to see what happens on my account is in my opinion not fair.
    2: if i dont want to run Beserker stats on my warrior (meaning I don't do enough dps) then am I not entitled to get my legendary armor?
    3: players say guild wars is a game about player skill... uh so wheres the "player skill" in pressing what a website says you must press? isn't that the same as bot... hmm makes it pretty hard to mess up... might aswell use macro's because its the same keys over and over, I mean who will ever know
    4: and last question is... instead of making it so that players have to depend on each others healing/damage buff's. why not make it an individual thing? (will add some competitivity)

    thank you in advance for any feedback

    I completely agree with you, Iam quite new player (about 330hours in), playing mirage and I am still learning new things. I recently went to Jahai and started closing those rift where there are hordes of creatures and a boss, I found out that with my build I am able to deal all by myself without dieing (actualy without a problem, just requires sashing buttons for a while) yet I think I would get kicked from raids too because people are like you need to play meta or you are useless.

    Again, in the end noone is even able to see your build, so it's not about being meta. It's about doing your job and not messing up mechanics. If you get kicked, it's because you failed at one (or both) of those.
    Unfortunately, raids have relatively high requirements in that regard. 10 people playing their usual non-meta open world builds simply won't be able to do those encounters, unless they also happen to be extremely skilled and accidentally fulfill the minimum requirements (that last is by no means a guarantee, by the way).
    If having a few of such people didn't result in much lower chances of succesfully finishing the encounter, i'm sure there would be far less discrimination going out. Unfortunately, it does result in lower chances, and not by a small degree.
    It's an encounter problem, not people problem.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • sigur.9453sigur.9453 Member ✭✭✭

    @Vashan.3098 said:

    @Blake.1908 said:
    I play my own style making me as a player unique, yes I do have not so good dps, but I have a bunch of other great attributes, so my questions are as follow
    1: why are people allowed to see my dps? it is my account and allowing others to see what happens on my account is in my opinion not fair.
    2: if i dont want to run Beserker stats on my warrior (meaning I don't do enough dps) then am I not entitled to get my legendary armor?
    3: players say guild wars is a game about player skill... uh so wheres the "player skill" in pressing what a website says you must press? isn't that the same as bot... hmm makes it pretty hard to mess up... might aswell use macro's because its the same keys over and over, I mean who will ever know
    4: and last question is... instead of making it so that players have to depend on each others healing/damage buff's. why not make it an individual thing? (will add some competitivity)

    thank you in advance for any feedback

    I completely agree with you, Iam quite new player (about 330hours in), playing mirage and I am still learning new things. I recently went to Jahai and started closing those rift where there are hordes of creatures and a boss, I found out that with my build I am able to deal all by myself without dieing (actualy without a problem, just requires sashing buttons for a while) yet I think I would get kicked from raids too because people are like you need to play meta or you are useless.

    no one requires meta DPS builds. there are off meta build that work really well in raids. im pretty confident to say a player with high knowledge of his off meta build and class will achieve higher dps numers than a player that copypasted a metabuild 15 minutes before heading in the raid.
    The Problem is, a lot of traits are pretty useless and you lose a lot of dps by n using them. also there are only 2-3 viable stat combinations for dps classes, the rest again, is pretty useless in instanced pve content. tanking mechanics and staying alive isn´t achieved through stats, its achieved via teamplay and knowing the encounter. but you can simply see for yourself. would be actually awesome if you would go to the golem trainings arena and post your results here with your "pretty good ow build" or share it with us via http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/ . remember all you are in for as a dps class in raids is doing dps.

  • Shikaru.7618Shikaru.7618 Member ✭✭✭

    @Vashan.3098 said:

    @Blake.1908 said:
    I play my own style making me as a player unique, yes I do have not so good dps, but I have a bunch of other great attributes, so my questions are as follow
    1: why are people allowed to see my dps? it is my account and allowing others to see what happens on my account is in my opinion not fair.
    2: if i dont want to run Beserker stats on my warrior (meaning I don't do enough dps) then am I not entitled to get my legendary armor?
    3: players say guild wars is a game about player skill... uh so wheres the "player skill" in pressing what a website says you must press? isn't that the same as bot... hmm makes it pretty hard to mess up... might aswell use macro's because its the same keys over and over, I mean who will ever know
    4: and last question is... instead of making it so that players have to depend on each others healing/damage buff's. why not make it an individual thing? (will add some competitivity)

    thank you in advance for any feedback

    I completely agree with you, Iam quite new player (about 330hours in), playing mirage and I am still learning new things. I recently went to Jahai and started closing those rift where there are hordes of creatures and a boss, I found out that with my build I am able to deal all by myself without dieing (actualy without a problem, just requires sashing buttons for a while) yet I think I would get kicked from raids too because people are like you need to play meta or you are useless.

    If there's a raid encounter that requires one to solo a bunch of mobs and a boss you'll be the first one I call. The current raid environment does not require that. If I'm taking a mirage they need to be dealing 15k+ dps in a raid setting. If your open world mirage can do that you're more than welcome to join. Don't actually care what build you run as long as it produces results.

  • Vashan.3098Vashan.3098 Member ✭✭
    edited November 21, 2018

    If there's a raid encounter that requires one to solo a bunch of mobs and a boss you'll be the first one I call. The current raid environment does not require that. If I'm taking a mirage they need to be dealing 15k+ dps in a raid setting. If your open world mirage can do that you're more than welcome to join. Don't actually care what build you run as long as it produces results.

    That is exactly the type of people we need in online gaming.

    As I said, I have never been in any raid so I dont know what the encounters and strategy are. I dont even have all ascended pieces yet and I am rly not sure about my dps and also it can get much higher when buffed by teammates (as everyone elses)
    And you are absolutely correct about my "build" as I do more dps when there is boss with mobs around than I do when damaging the boss alone.

    Dont take what I am going to write as arguing, I think you are inteligent person and I agree with what you said.
    What I want to say that there might be other aspect to party's dps and I will use my experience from T3 fracts.
    With sigil of stamina that refills my endurance when I kill a foe, it really makes killing bunches of mobs easier, but on boss that doesnt summon anyone it is not that effective.
    But still, there are in game effects making your endurance faster -> Helping you summon more your coppies and doing my ambush attacks more often.
    Result of this is that even if my overall long term damage is lower, I am trading the damage sacrificed for invulnerability (both me and my copies), helping your teammates with survivability which might result into bigger "overall party dps".

    I think you get my point. And I am aware of there might be better ways to improve my dps while maintaining same survivability but I didnt reach it yet. :)

  • Deepcuts.9740Deepcuts.9740 Member ✭✭✭

    Would like some kicks for lousy support classes also, not only dps.
    Most people using ArcDPS only look at dps table. Boons table is unknown to many. (hint: alt+shift+B)
    Just met a Druid recently that had very low boon duration (shown by ArcDPS) for might.
    At the end of the run, I told him in private that he should look into fixing his boon up time for might.
    The Druid's response: "-It is not my role to provide Might, We had a BS for that and he was not providing enough Might. Not my problem". The account was over 20K AP.
    And I am seeing this with other support classes, yet mostly dps roles gets the short stick usually and get kicked for low performance.
    I am not saying that low dps should get a pass, but maybe be fair and look into support also. Support that usually goes unnoticed if they under-perform.

  • yann.1946yann.1946 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Deepcuts.9740 said:
    Would like some kicks for lousy support classes also, not only dps.
    Most people using ArcDPS only look at dps table. Boons table is unknown to many. (hint: alt+shift+B)
    Just met a Druid recently that had very low boon duration (shown by ArcDPS) for might.
    At the end of the run, I told him in private that he should look into fixing his boon up time for might.
    The Druid's response: "-It is not my role to provide Might, We had a BS for that and he was not providing enough Might. Not my problem". The account was over 20K AP.
    And I am seeing this with other support classes, yet mostly dps roles gets the short stick usually and get kicked for low performance.
    I am not saying that low dps should get a pass, but maybe be fair and look into support also. Support that usually goes unnoticed if they under-perform.

    If he still lives in that Meta you probably should have mentioned his grace of the land uptime. :p

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Deepcuts.9740 said:
    Would like some kicks for lousy support classes also, not only dps.
    Most people using ArcDPS only look at dps table. Boons table is unknown to many. (hint: alt+shift+B)
    Just met a Druid recently that had very low boon duration (shown by ArcDPS) for might.
    At the end of the run, I told him in private that he should look into fixing his boon up time for might.
    The Druid's response: "-It is not my role to provide Might, We had a BS for that and he was not providing enough Might. Not my problem". The account was over 20K AP.
    And I am seeing this with other support classes, yet mostly dps roles gets the short stick usually and get kicked for low performance.
    I am not saying that low dps should get a pass, but maybe be fair and look into support also. Support that usually goes unnoticed if they under-perform.

    to be fair if druids might is lacking the whole team feels it in their dps.

  • Naxos.2503Naxos.2503 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 21, 2018

    I'm going to play devil's advocate here, and read between the lines of what OP said.

    He's not asking to be carried. He's asking for -leniency- on the basis that his build is decent, just not Meta.

    I've been given the honor of participating in a VG run, without checking my credentials. It was my first random join, and would be my first succesful run. I was familiar with the mechanics beforehand, but had no victories on it prior. The run went exceptionally well. I was on a Condi DPS holosmith, with emphasis on Condi. Even as the run went smooth as silk, and was done in 1 try, someone went ahead and said "Holo on 5k...." at the very end, as a spike to me. I did not reply, but could have pointed to that person that 5k DPS is my Raw damage. Without condi included. I consistently deal 12k burning damage a tick. I took down the red guardian split with a guardian, and most of the damage was done by me, with the guardian helping and giving some sustain heals. The red split was consistently downed in 10 seconds flat, each time.

    Yet because someone misguided figured Holo = Raw DPS, I was singled out as if I didn't carry my weight. My only fault during that run was to have forgotten to bring food. Didn't prevent me from hitting 5k Raw, and 11k Condi ticks on average. I have no problem with efficiency. I dislike however that it Has to take precedence over Everything else, to the point that if you're not running the Exact Meta build, with the Exact gear and the Exact rotation, you're labelled as a scrub, regardless of your performance. THAT is elitism.

    Edit : I should point out that even if no credential was asked, I pointed out I never succeeded at that raid. I was open about my condition, and clearly said what role I would take. I carried out my role appropriately, regardless of what that one person said.

  • ReaverKane.7598ReaverKane.7598 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @DiZ.1086 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @DiZ.1086 said:
    I agree with everything the OP says. I don't play raids so I can only talk about my experiences in fractals and I can tell the elitist attitude of some players is really annoying. I have been getting kicked from groups lately because of my 'low dps'. This is strange to me because in groups with normal people I don't have any problem and we clear the fractals in a decent time. FYI I run a full berserk stats herald. This isnt considered to be a meta build anymore on sites like metabattle but who cares? I still love playing the build and IMO that's the thing that should matter the most in PVE. Therefor I also don't like people getting information on my performances. In the end, this is just a game and people should be able to play it as they like.

    While I feel your pain, let me repeat what you said though:

    @DiZ.1086 said:
    In the end, this is just a game and people should be able to play it as they like.

    This goes both ways, you get to play the game the way you like and other people get to play the game how they like. If you play with like minded people who do not care as much about peak performance, then all is fine. Why do suddenly players who want better performance be forced to adapt to your play-style?

    Isn't that a double standard?

    EDIT: and just to be clear, arcdps tells people NOTHING about your gear or build or setup. It merely gives an indicator of your performance. As such you are given as much freedom as possible to be creative, as long as your performance is up to par (and par is very VERY low in pug groups). This is most evident for people who run their own off meta builds and no one ever notices.

    You make a valid point but I am afraid you are mixing some things up. Of course I have nothing against people playing with metabuilds. However, the whole discussion was about how people interact with each other in PUG. If people want to play in optimized groups thats their choice but I just feel like in PUG you should be prepared to have people with you that run builds they love playing and aren't rly the best of the best. You don't have to go around kicking people for that.

    This is not about meta builds or non meta builds. There is tons of people who play non meta builds, but they also bring performance.

    There is tons of people who play meta builds and suck big time.

    Meta builds =/= good performance.

    Terrible dps on arc = terrrbile dps.

    Exactly... A lot of people forget that ArcDPS doesn't tell us the build, the gear or anything else. It tells us what's in the name, the DPS. You can get a bit more information after the fact through logs, but that's a whole other step that most people don't take.
    When i'm looking at a person's DPS, i don't care the build, i don't care the profession, what i care is two things: If he's DPS, is his DPS suficient? (10k+ is usually the benchmark for Fractals and most raid groups).
    If he's playing support, all i care is about the boons or heals that the group is getting. Banner warriors have to do a bit of both, but full heal druids and full support chronos don't really need to be outstanding in DPS.

    So if you have a off-meta build (i run several of them) and you're doing well, no one will notice, or they might notice but not complain. You're more likely to get berated for using off-meta builds from a person not using a DPS meter than from one using one.
    Because for a person not using a dps meter they have to rely on qualitative methods to determine your performance, so whether you're using this or that skill, this or that weapon, etc. If a person is using a dps meter, he's looking at your dps, and if it's sufficient, he won't care whether you're using akimbo shields (i dream of a day we'll use akimbo shields).

  • Naxos.2503Naxos.2503 Member ✭✭✭

    I have to point out a major falacy to that DPS viewpoint. Your DPS reaches 0 if you're dead.

  • Naxos.2503Naxos.2503 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 21, 2018

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Naxos.2503 said:
    I'm going to play devil's advocate here, and read between the lines of what OP said.

    He's not asking to be carried. He's asking for -leniency- on the basis that his build is decent, just not Meta.

    I've been given the honor of participating in a VG run, without checking my credentials. It was my first random join, and would be my first succesful run. I was familiar with the mechanics beforehand, but had no victories on it prior. The run went exceptionally well. I was on a Condi DPS holosmith, with emphasis on Condi. Even as the run went smooth as silk, and was done in 1 try, someone went ahead and said "Holo on 5k...." at the very end, as a spike to me. I did not reply, but could have pointed to that person that 5k DPS is my Raw damage. Without condi included. I consistently deal 12k burning damage a tick. I took down the red guardian split with a guardian, and most of the damage was done by me, with the guardian helping and giving some sustain heals. The red split was consistently downed in 10 seconds flat, each time.

    Unless you were running arc, your subjective"feeling" of what you were running is absolute without value. If the other person was saying you were running 5k on arc, you were providing 5k damage per second over the entire fight. Other dps will have been at 10-15k under the same conditions.

    You were carried and others were covering for your low dps. With 5k you were actually below the minimum required dps to complete VG within the enrage timer by the way.

    There is no raw damage. Arc gives total damage over x amount of time. Every single person is subject to the same restrictions in that fight (aka waiting for splits, moving, etc.).

    If you want a serious representation of your dps, go to the training golem and do 1-2 rotations. This entire raw dps argument is literally bs when ther eis a damage meter present which records the fight.

    @Naxos.2503 said:

    Yet because someone misguided figured Holo = Raw DPS, I was singled out as if I didn't carry my weight. My only fault during that run was to have forgotten to bring food. Didn't prevent me from hitting 5k Raw, and 11k Condi ticks on average. I have no problem with efficiency. I dislike however that it Has to take precedence over Everything else, to the point that if you're not running the Exact Meta build, with the Exact gear and the Exact rotation, you're labelled as a scrub, regardless of your performance. THAT is elitism.

    Again, that person was very likely referring to arcdps. Your subjective feeling is simply wrong.

    @Naxos.2503 said:

    Edit : I should point out that even if no credential was asked, I pointed out I never succeeded at that raid. I was open about my condition, and clearly said what role I would take. I carried out my role appropriately, regardless of what that one person said.

    Great, now go to the training dummy and check your performance there. The in-game message will give you exact damage per second values every 20% life of the golem. Don't assume, get hard evidence and data that you are performing as well as you are. Please don't come again with this "my ticks do xyz damage". That's the biggest nonsense one can argue with.

    I get 12k DPS with a group buff, 9k without on the Kitty golem. I rest my case. Really now, I didn't start raids without atleast informing myself and preparing myself adequately. Just because I dont do things THE best way, doesn't mean I dont do it well enough to succeed. How is my DPS 5k when my Condi alone reaches 12k per tick, and my non condi damage is 5k ?

  • Naxos.2503Naxos.2503 Member ✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Naxos.2503 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Naxos.2503 said:
    I'm going to play devil's advocate here, and read between the lines of what OP said.

    He's not asking to be carried. He's asking for -leniency- on the basis that his build is decent, just not Meta.

    I've been given the honor of participating in a VG run, without checking my credentials. It was my first random join, and would be my first succesful run. I was familiar with the mechanics beforehand, but had no victories on it prior. The run went exceptionally well. I was on a Condi DPS holosmith, with emphasis on Condi. Even as the run went smooth as silk, and was done in 1 try, someone went ahead and said "Holo on 5k...." at the very end, as a spike to me. I did not reply, but could have pointed to that person that 5k DPS is my Raw damage. Without condi included. I consistently deal 12k burning damage a tick. I took down the red guardian split with a guardian, and most of the damage was done by me, with the guardian helping and giving some sustain heals. The red split was consistently downed in 10 seconds flat, each time.

    Unless you were running arc, your subjective"feeling" of what you were running is absolute without value. If the other person was saying you were running 5k on arc, you were providing 5k damage per second over the entire fight. Other dps will have been at 10-15k under the same conditions.

    You were carried and others were covering for your low dps. With 5k you were actually below the minimum required dps to complete VG within the enrage timer by the way.

    There is no raw damage. Arc gives total damage over x amount of time. Every single person is subject to the same restrictions in that fight (aka waiting for splits, moving, etc.).

    If you want a serious representation of your dps, go to the training golem and do 1-2 rotations. This entire raw dps argument is literally bs when ther eis a damage meter present which records the fight.

    @Naxos.2503 said:

    Yet because someone misguided figured Holo = Raw DPS, I was singled out as if I didn't carry my weight. My only fault during that run was to have forgotten to bring food. Didn't prevent me from hitting 5k Raw, and 11k Condi ticks on average. I have no problem with efficiency. I dislike however that it Has to take precedence over Everything else, to the point that if you're not running the Exact Meta build, with the Exact gear and the Exact rotation, you're labelled as a scrub, regardless of your performance. THAT is elitism.

    Again, that person was very likely referring to arcdps. Your subjective feeling is simply wrong.

    @Naxos.2503 said:

    Edit : I should point out that even if no credential was asked, I pointed out I never succeeded at that raid. I was open about my condition, and clearly said what role I would take. I carried out my role appropriately, regardless of what that one person said.

    Great, now go to the training dummy and check your performance there. The in-game message will give you exact damage per second values every 20% life of the golem. Don't assume, get hard evidence and data that you are performing as well as you are. Please don't come again with this "my ticks do xyz damage". That's the biggest nonsense one can argue with.

    I get 12k DPS with a group buff, 9k without on the Kitty golem. I rest my case. Really now, I start raids without atleast informing myself and preparing myself adequately. Just because I dont do things THE best way, doesn't mean I dont do it well enough to succeed. How is my DPS 5k when my Condi alone reaches 12k per tick, and my non condi damage is 5k ?

    12k, top dps get 35-38k with all boons, class buffs and 25 weakness. You are far off with only 12k.

    It was my first raid, on partly ascended, partly exotic, non meta build, with 2 support skills that I used for sustain. I know what causes that drop in DPS, it's my rotation. I use my condi sustain to make up for lack of order in it. That's why I make sure I have atleast 12k condi without help Constantly. Provided I'm not downed, I can keep that tick just as high the whole fight. It's not efficient, but it makes up for my human body's less than ideal abilities. I'm not hiding it to you, or to anyone whom I join the raid of, or to people who join my party. To note : I also used my CC to keep the group free from red seekers, because our group was static (Tanking, overheal). That cannot be measured in DPS. DPS is not everything. I advertised condi, I delivered condi, and a little more.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 21, 2018

    snip mislclick

  • Naxos.2503Naxos.2503 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 21, 2018

    In your previous post's edit, you mentionned 25 stacks of weakness. The test I did, with the results I mentionned didn't have that. The golem had no debuff (that I didn't cause). So my DPS is infact incorrect, based on what you mentionned, I also only used All boons, not all class buffs, or food utility buffs.
    I'm not refusing evidence, I just Assumed that you cannot realistically get All the ideal that this test allows. I went with what my group at the time could provide. So fair enough, my assumptions are incorrect, and I can infact perform much higher based on the settings you're saying.

    One thing however is unlikely to change, my rotation. That's not due to unwillingness, but due to (ugh) dyspraxia. I would if I could, but cannot. That doesn't mean I'm not aware of it though. I Simply Cannot run my rotation in order. I consciously use engineer's wide availability of skills to make up for that, and Kinda focus on consistently doing damage. That does mean I occasionally miss my CC (trigger them after the boss defiance bar entered recovery) for example. That part falls in an impossible challenge for me.

    Edit : When I mean consistently keep the tick at peak, I do mean on the same target, not the whole fight, apologies for the confusion. I was also instructed to stay on the red area until the other two were killed, so during the split, after the red target was killed, I literally stood around dodging seekers. Wouldn't that mean my DPS dropped then ?

  • Shikaru.7618Shikaru.7618 Member ✭✭✭

    @Naxos.2503 said:
    In your previous post's edit, you mentionned 25 stacks of weakness. The test I did, with the results I mentionned didn't have that. The golem had no debuff (that I didn't cause). So my DPS is infact incorrect, based on what you mentionned, I also only used All boons, not all class buffs, or food utility buffs.
    I'm not refusing evidence, I just Assumed that you cannot realistically get All the ideal that this test allows. I went with what my group at the time could provide. So fair enough, my assumptions are incorrect, and I can infact perform much higher based on the settings you're saying.

    One thing however is unlikely to change, my rotation. That's not due to unwillingness, but due to (ugh) dyspraxia. I would if I could, but cannot. That doesn't mean I'm not aware of it though. I Simply Cannot run my rotation in order. I consciously use engineer's wide availability of skills to make up for that, and Kinda focus on consistently doing damage. That does mean I occasionally miss my CC (trigger them after the boss defiance bar entered recovery) for example. That part falls in an impossible challenge for me.

    Edit : When I mean consistently keep the tick at peak, I do mean on the same target, not the whole fight, apologies for the confusion. I was also instructed to stay on the red area until the other two were killed, so during the split, after the red target was killed, I literally stood around dodging seekers. Wouldn't that mean my DPS dropped then ?

    A few clarification points. In order to add 25 vulnerability (not weakness as was stated above) it is a setting in the golem summoning panel. As for rotations, the meta condi holo build does a decent amount of swapping and isn't the most friendly build to play. If you love playing it, more power to you but there's a sword variant that does competitive power damage but much much easier to execute. If you want to reach some higher numbers you should check out kitless holo.

  • Naxos.2503Naxos.2503 Member ✭✭✭

    Aye, I appreciate the advice and the insight. I wish more people reacted that way when I explain myself

    I actually already kind of map up my skill position to avoid "mishaps". Unfortunately, dyspraxia enforce muscle memory, to the point that changing keys would result in me fumbling around trying to even move... As for changing class, it's a tough one, my engineer is my first char, and I love it's mechanics, so I want to see it succeed at Something. I did notice I have a noticeably easier time on other classes, but I didn't lavish nearly as much love and care into getting the gear up to snuff (relatively speaking) and finding a way to fight that's at least reliable, if not efficient in time.

    My guild and I are currently in the process of building up our own raid group, to be able to take things a bit more slowly, without too much heat. We're gifted with a few members who Actually have a knack for raids, and are willing to help us through it, as well as guildies very eager to learn, however long it takes. It's a slow process.
    I actually have a great appreciation for the party who Did allow me to join their run that one time, as it was my first successful raid, and pushed me to go much deeper into it, and eventually spur the creation of that guild squad. It was nice of them, even if they knew my capacities were not on par with the usual runners.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Naxos.2503 said:
    Aye, I appreciate the advice and the insight. I wish more people reacted that way when I explain myself

    I actually already kind of map up my skill position to avoid "mishaps". Unfortunately, dyspraxia enforce muscle memory, to the point that changing keys would result in me fumbling around trying to even move... As for changing class, it's a tough one, my engineer is my first char, and I love it's mechanics, so I want to see it succeed at Something.

    I should have been clearer but luckily Shikaru.7618 caught that. Changing class can be as easy as changing up your build. Maybe give the sword Holo a go. That way you can stay on your favorite class.

    Good luck and remember, if the people you surround yourself with are fun and easy going, you will enjoy any and all content a lot more in a MMO. One of my main and repeated piece of advice to people who want to raid is: find a guild of like minded and friendly people.

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    One of my main and repeated piece of advice to people who want to raid is: find a guild of like minded and friendly people.

    I think this generally good advice for everyone. Even brininging a friend or guild mate to a PvP match can raise the fun bar exponentially.

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sephylon.4938 said:

    @Blake.1908 said:
    I play my own style making me as a player unique, yes I do have not so good dps, but I have a bunch of other great attributes, so my questions are as follow
    1: why are people allowed to see my dps? it is my account and allowing others to see what happens on my account is in my opinion not fair.

    dps is public information you don't own it.

    2: if i dont want to run Beserker stats on my warrior (meaning I don't do enough dps) then am I not entitled to get my legendary armor?

    Yes, you can get legy armor, just not with the groups that don't want you. Either make a group of your own with friends you know and trust, or grind pvp/wvw for its legendary armor. If you pug, you are subject to their rules as its their group.

    3: players say guild wars is a game about player skill... uh so wheres the "player skill" in pressing what a website says you must press? isn't that the same as bot... hmm makes it pretty hard to mess up... might aswell use macro's because its the same keys over and over, I mean who will ever know

    The point is to have those memorized so you don't have to think about them when kitten hits the fan because of mechanics and you're not panicking because of it. Also certain bosses have dps checks that must be passed or causes the group to wipe.

    4: and last question is... instead of making it so that players have to depend on each others healing/damage buff's. why not make it an individual thing? (will add some competitivity)

    Because then it would just be 10 people playing beside each other instead of with each other. Also not all classes have access to all boons.

    I agree with you. But right now. There's literally no playing with each other.
    The only ones doing that, are druids, chronos and people that have to do mechanics at certain bosses.
    For me, playing with each other was epibounce. Because it required at least some communication.
    Sure it was too strong.
    But right now, it's just braindead button smashing, no need to communicate. Just do your job as DPS.

    (If that was the case that all classes were all things, then only the top dps classes would ever be taken and you'd have even less of a chance to get in unless you mained the top dps class, prob ele)

    thank you in advance for any feedback

    edit
    adding more to it, people prefer the tried and tested as they know the odds of it and it is familiar to them. Your special build is a wild card to them and they'd prefer to avoid such things especially since there are enough seemingly random factors that lead to wipes.

  • @Vashan.3098 said:

    If there's a raid encounter that requires one to solo a bunch of mobs and a boss you'll be the first one I call. The current raid environment does not require that. If I'm taking a mirage they need to be dealing 15k+ dps in a raid setting. If your open world mirage can do that you're more than welcome to join. Don't actually care what build you run as long as it produces results.

    That is exactly the type of people we need in online gaming.

    As I said, I have never been in any raid so I dont know what the encounters and strategy are. I dont even have all ascended pieces yet and I am rly not sure about my dps and also it can get much higher when buffed by teammates (as everyone elses)
    And you are absolutely correct about my "build" as I do more dps when there is boss with mobs around than I do when damaging the boss alone.

    Dont take what I am going to write as arguing, I think you are inteligent person and I agree with what you said.
    What I want to say that there might be other aspect to party's dps and I will use my experience from T3 fracts.
    With sigil of stamina that refills my endurance when I kill a foe, it really makes killing bunches of mobs easier, but on boss that doesnt summon anyone it is not that effective.
    But still, there are in game effects making your endurance faster -> Helping you summon more your coppies and doing my ambush attacks more often.
    Result of this is that even if my overall long term damage is lower, I am trading the damage sacrificed for invulnerability (both me and my copies), helping your teammates with survivability which might result into bigger "overall party dps".

    I think you get my point. And I am aware of there might be better ways to improve my dps while maintaining same survivability but I didnt reach it yet. :)

    I think you will find that 90% of pug groups have the same attitude, that as long as you are doing your job they dont care if you are running meta builds or not. The problem is, most people who dont use meta builds do a bad job so people are distrustful of them.

    In raids you have support classes providing you with survivability. They give defensive buffs (protection/aegis) and also heal any damage you might take so as long as they do THEIR job, you never need to worry about staying alive, just doing maximum damage.

    Its also while its really important that people actually do their job, because if the healer is failing to heal, then the whole group will wipe since people dont bring survivability into their build since they are expecting it to be covered. This is why its a big problem when people like OP join groups. It brings the whole team down and the only way to overcome that is to kick the failing player. You cant reasonably expect 9 random, inexperienced people to change their gameplay to cover the failure of that person.

  • Deepcuts.9740Deepcuts.9740 Member ✭✭✭

    Another experience just now:
    Joined a guild W6B1 training run as a Druid out of boredom.
    Understanding that a training run is well, a training run, I kept my mouth shut in /d
    In 6 tries, only the Commander, a Daredevil , did over 10K dps with a max of 12K dps.
    Another one, I forgot the class did a constant 8K dps.
    And the rest, wait for it...all under 5K dps.
    Not even talking about the fact that they had no clue about tactics and they kept repeating the same mistakes over and over. Its the job of the Commander to point them out not a random join like me.
    After the 3rd try, I told the Commander in /w that we need a lot more dps. No reaction besides the reply "I know"
    After the 6th try, I told them that without a lot more dps, they will not manage to kill it and that I am out.
    Couple of seconds later, the same group on lfg added the text: "NO flame".

  • Zunki.3916Zunki.3916 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 27, 2018

    I am at 300 Li, 95% gained offmeta while pugging. Noone cares for your spec as long as you deliver (depending on the encounter thats 10k-20k, really nothing insane - Every weapon combination paired with the right attributes can do this).
    If you don't they might ask you about the spec, and that's actually implying it's the spec fault and not the players skill, which might be even a nice move if you ask me.

    Before ArcDps and raids everyone was wanting me to link zerker gear or I got kicked, THAT SUCKED

    Viable != Optimal

    Not viable = You only get carried, 10 players with a build as "viable as yours" can't properly do it.

  • ProtoGunner.4953ProtoGunner.4953 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Deepcuts.9740 said:
    Another experience just now:
    Joined a guild W6B1 training run as a Druid out of boredom.
    Understanding that a training run is well, a training run, I kept my mouth shut in /d
    In 6 tries, only the Commander, a Daredevil , did over 10K dps with a max of 12K dps.
    Another one, I forgot the class did a constant 8K dps.
    And the rest, wait for it...all under 5K dps.
    Not even talking about the fact that they had no clue about tactics and they kept repeating the same mistakes over and over. Its the job of the Commander to point them out not a random join like me.
    After the 3rd try, I told the Commander in /w that we need a lot more dps. No reaction besides the reply "I know"
    After the 6th try, I told them that without a lot more dps, they will not manage to kill it and that I am out.
    Couple of seconds later, the same group on lfg added the text: "NO flame".

    That't the biggest problem: newer players to raids are in this limbo. If you are good but can't show any proof of how good you are. Some people just learn much faster/are more talented than others. I had this a lot of times. Though I don't do raids that often (or playing the whole game since a couple of years).

  • Magnus Godrik.5841Magnus Godrik.5841 Member ✭✭✭✭

    They should get rid of arc dps and implement thier own system. And im sorry to tell you but dps does matter. If everyone played your "style" then the boss would enrage and you would constantly wipe, which will make every1 enrage.