in raids. i get kicked everytime by people using ARCdps. why are they allowed to see my dps? - Page 3 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

in raids. i get kicked everytime by people using ARCdps. why are they allowed to see my dps?

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Answers

  • ReaverKane.7598ReaverKane.7598 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @DiZ.1086 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @DiZ.1086 said:
    I agree with everything the OP says. I don't play raids so I can only talk about my experiences in fractals and I can tell the elitist attitude of some players is really annoying. I have been getting kicked from groups lately because of my 'low dps'. This is strange to me because in groups with normal people I don't have any problem and we clear the fractals in a decent time. FYI I run a full berserk stats herald. This isnt considered to be a meta build anymore on sites like metabattle but who cares? I still love playing the build and IMO that's the thing that should matter the most in PVE. Therefor I also don't like people getting information on my performances. In the end, this is just a game and people should be able to play it as they like.

    While I feel your pain, let me repeat what you said though:

    @DiZ.1086 said:
    In the end, this is just a game and people should be able to play it as they like.

    This goes both ways, you get to play the game the way you like and other people get to play the game how they like. If you play with like minded people who do not care as much about peak performance, then all is fine. Why do suddenly players who want better performance be forced to adapt to your play-style?

    Isn't that a double standard?

    EDIT: and just to be clear, arcdps tells people NOTHING about your gear or build or setup. It merely gives an indicator of your performance. As such you are given as much freedom as possible to be creative, as long as your performance is up to par (and par is very VERY low in pug groups). This is most evident for people who run their own off meta builds and no one ever notices.

    You make a valid point but I am afraid you are mixing some things up. Of course I have nothing against people playing with metabuilds. However, the whole discussion was about how people interact with each other in PUG. If people want to play in optimized groups thats their choice but I just feel like in PUG you should be prepared to have people with you that run builds they love playing and aren't rly the best of the best. You don't have to go around kicking people for that.

    This is not about meta builds or non meta builds. There is tons of people who play non meta builds, but they also bring performance.

    There is tons of people who play meta builds and suck big time.

    Meta builds =/= good performance.

    Terrible dps on arc = terrrbile dps.

    Exactly... A lot of people forget that ArcDPS doesn't tell us the build, the gear or anything else. It tells us what's in the name, the DPS. You can get a bit more information after the fact through logs, but that's a whole other step that most people don't take.
    When i'm looking at a person's DPS, i don't care the build, i don't care the profession, what i care is two things: If he's DPS, is his DPS suficient? (10k+ is usually the benchmark for Fractals and most raid groups).
    If he's playing support, all i care is about the boons or heals that the group is getting. Banner warriors have to do a bit of both, but full heal druids and full support chronos don't really need to be outstanding in DPS.

    So if you have a off-meta build (i run several of them) and you're doing well, no one will notice, or they might notice but not complain. You're more likely to get berated for using off-meta builds from a person not using a DPS meter than from one using one.
    Because for a person not using a dps meter they have to rely on qualitative methods to determine your performance, so whether you're using this or that skill, this or that weapon, etc. If a person is using a dps meter, he's looking at your dps, and if it's sufficient, he won't care whether you're using akimbo shields (i dream of a day we'll use akimbo shields).

  • I have to point out a major falacy to that DPS viewpoint. Your DPS reaches 0 if you're dead.

  • Naxos.2503Naxos.2503 Member ✭✭
    edited November 21, 2018

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Naxos.2503 said:
    I'm going to play devil's advocate here, and read between the lines of what OP said.

    He's not asking to be carried. He's asking for -leniency- on the basis that his build is decent, just not Meta.

    I've been given the honor of participating in a VG run, without checking my credentials. It was my first random join, and would be my first succesful run. I was familiar with the mechanics beforehand, but had no victories on it prior. The run went exceptionally well. I was on a Condi DPS holosmith, with emphasis on Condi. Even as the run went smooth as silk, and was done in 1 try, someone went ahead and said "Holo on 5k...." at the very end, as a spike to me. I did not reply, but could have pointed to that person that 5k DPS is my Raw damage. Without condi included. I consistently deal 12k burning damage a tick. I took down the red guardian split with a guardian, and most of the damage was done by me, with the guardian helping and giving some sustain heals. The red split was consistently downed in 10 seconds flat, each time.

    Unless you were running arc, your subjective"feeling" of what you were running is absolute without value. If the other person was saying you were running 5k on arc, you were providing 5k damage per second over the entire fight. Other dps will have been at 10-15k under the same conditions.

    You were carried and others were covering for your low dps. With 5k you were actually below the minimum required dps to complete VG within the enrage timer by the way.

    There is no raw damage. Arc gives total damage over x amount of time. Every single person is subject to the same restrictions in that fight (aka waiting for splits, moving, etc.).

    If you want a serious representation of your dps, go to the training golem and do 1-2 rotations. This entire raw dps argument is literally bs when ther eis a damage meter present which records the fight.

    @Naxos.2503 said:

    Yet because someone misguided figured Holo = Raw DPS, I was singled out as if I didn't carry my weight. My only fault during that run was to have forgotten to bring food. Didn't prevent me from hitting 5k Raw, and 11k Condi ticks on average. I have no problem with efficiency. I dislike however that it Has to take precedence over Everything else, to the point that if you're not running the Exact Meta build, with the Exact gear and the Exact rotation, you're labelled as a scrub, regardless of your performance. THAT is elitism.

    Again, that person was very likely referring to arcdps. Your subjective feeling is simply wrong.

    @Naxos.2503 said:

    Edit : I should point out that even if no credential was asked, I pointed out I never succeeded at that raid. I was open about my condition, and clearly said what role I would take. I carried out my role appropriately, regardless of what that one person said.

    Great, now go to the training dummy and check your performance there. The in-game message will give you exact damage per second values every 20% life of the golem. Don't assume, get hard evidence and data that you are performing as well as you are. Please don't come again with this "my ticks do xyz damage". That's the biggest nonsense one can argue with.

    I get 12k DPS with a group buff, 9k without on the Kitty golem. I rest my case. Really now, I didn't start raids without atleast informing myself and preparing myself adequately. Just because I dont do things THE best way, doesn't mean I dont do it well enough to succeed. How is my DPS 5k when my Condi alone reaches 12k per tick, and my non condi damage is 5k ?

  • @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Naxos.2503 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Naxos.2503 said:
    I'm going to play devil's advocate here, and read between the lines of what OP said.

    He's not asking to be carried. He's asking for -leniency- on the basis that his build is decent, just not Meta.

    I've been given the honor of participating in a VG run, without checking my credentials. It was my first random join, and would be my first succesful run. I was familiar with the mechanics beforehand, but had no victories on it prior. The run went exceptionally well. I was on a Condi DPS holosmith, with emphasis on Condi. Even as the run went smooth as silk, and was done in 1 try, someone went ahead and said "Holo on 5k...." at the very end, as a spike to me. I did not reply, but could have pointed to that person that 5k DPS is my Raw damage. Without condi included. I consistently deal 12k burning damage a tick. I took down the red guardian split with a guardian, and most of the damage was done by me, with the guardian helping and giving some sustain heals. The red split was consistently downed in 10 seconds flat, each time.

    Unless you were running arc, your subjective"feeling" of what you were running is absolute without value. If the other person was saying you were running 5k on arc, you were providing 5k damage per second over the entire fight. Other dps will have been at 10-15k under the same conditions.

    You were carried and others were covering for your low dps. With 5k you were actually below the minimum required dps to complete VG within the enrage timer by the way.

    There is no raw damage. Arc gives total damage over x amount of time. Every single person is subject to the same restrictions in that fight (aka waiting for splits, moving, etc.).

    If you want a serious representation of your dps, go to the training golem and do 1-2 rotations. This entire raw dps argument is literally bs when ther eis a damage meter present which records the fight.

    @Naxos.2503 said:

    Yet because someone misguided figured Holo = Raw DPS, I was singled out as if I didn't carry my weight. My only fault during that run was to have forgotten to bring food. Didn't prevent me from hitting 5k Raw, and 11k Condi ticks on average. I have no problem with efficiency. I dislike however that it Has to take precedence over Everything else, to the point that if you're not running the Exact Meta build, with the Exact gear and the Exact rotation, you're labelled as a scrub, regardless of your performance. THAT is elitism.

    Again, that person was very likely referring to arcdps. Your subjective feeling is simply wrong.

    @Naxos.2503 said:

    Edit : I should point out that even if no credential was asked, I pointed out I never succeeded at that raid. I was open about my condition, and clearly said what role I would take. I carried out my role appropriately, regardless of what that one person said.

    Great, now go to the training dummy and check your performance there. The in-game message will give you exact damage per second values every 20% life of the golem. Don't assume, get hard evidence and data that you are performing as well as you are. Please don't come again with this "my ticks do xyz damage". That's the biggest nonsense one can argue with.

    I get 12k DPS with a group buff, 9k without on the Kitty golem. I rest my case. Really now, I start raids without atleast informing myself and preparing myself adequately. Just because I dont do things THE best way, doesn't mean I dont do it well enough to succeed. How is my DPS 5k when my Condi alone reaches 12k per tick, and my non condi damage is 5k ?

    12k, top dps get 35-38k with all boons, class buffs and 25 weakness. You are far off with only 12k.

    It was my first raid, on partly ascended, partly exotic, non meta build, with 2 support skills that I used for sustain. I know what causes that drop in DPS, it's my rotation. I use my condi sustain to make up for lack of order in it. That's why I make sure I have atleast 12k condi without help Constantly. Provided I'm not downed, I can keep that tick just as high the whole fight. It's not efficient, but it makes up for my human body's less than ideal abilities. I'm not hiding it to you, or to anyone whom I join the raid of, or to people who join my party. To note : I also used my CC to keep the group free from red seekers, because our group was static (Tanking, overheal). That cannot be measured in DPS. DPS is not everything. I advertised condi, I delivered condi, and a little more.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 21, 2018

    snip mislclick

  • Naxos.2503Naxos.2503 Member ✭✭
    edited November 21, 2018

    In your previous post's edit, you mentionned 25 stacks of weakness. The test I did, with the results I mentionned didn't have that. The golem had no debuff (that I didn't cause). So my DPS is infact incorrect, based on what you mentionned, I also only used All boons, not all class buffs, or food utility buffs.
    I'm not refusing evidence, I just Assumed that you cannot realistically get All the ideal that this test allows. I went with what my group at the time could provide. So fair enough, my assumptions are incorrect, and I can infact perform much higher based on the settings you're saying.

    One thing however is unlikely to change, my rotation. That's not due to unwillingness, but due to (ugh) dyspraxia. I would if I could, but cannot. That doesn't mean I'm not aware of it though. I Simply Cannot run my rotation in order. I consciously use engineer's wide availability of skills to make up for that, and Kinda focus on consistently doing damage. That does mean I occasionally miss my CC (trigger them after the boss defiance bar entered recovery) for example. That part falls in an impossible challenge for me.

    Edit : When I mean consistently keep the tick at peak, I do mean on the same target, not the whole fight, apologies for the confusion. I was also instructed to stay on the red area until the other two were killed, so during the split, after the red target was killed, I literally stood around dodging seekers. Wouldn't that mean my DPS dropped then ?

  • Shikaru.7618Shikaru.7618 Member ✭✭✭

    @Naxos.2503 said:
    In your previous post's edit, you mentionned 25 stacks of weakness. The test I did, with the results I mentionned didn't have that. The golem had no debuff (that I didn't cause). So my DPS is infact incorrect, based on what you mentionned, I also only used All boons, not all class buffs, or food utility buffs.
    I'm not refusing evidence, I just Assumed that you cannot realistically get All the ideal that this test allows. I went with what my group at the time could provide. So fair enough, my assumptions are incorrect, and I can infact perform much higher based on the settings you're saying.

    One thing however is unlikely to change, my rotation. That's not due to unwillingness, but due to (ugh) dyspraxia. I would if I could, but cannot. That doesn't mean I'm not aware of it though. I Simply Cannot run my rotation in order. I consciously use engineer's wide availability of skills to make up for that, and Kinda focus on consistently doing damage. That does mean I occasionally miss my CC (trigger them after the boss defiance bar entered recovery) for example. That part falls in an impossible challenge for me.

    Edit : When I mean consistently keep the tick at peak, I do mean on the same target, not the whole fight, apologies for the confusion. I was also instructed to stay on the red area until the other two were killed, so during the split, after the red target was killed, I literally stood around dodging seekers. Wouldn't that mean my DPS dropped then ?

    A few clarification points. In order to add 25 vulnerability (not weakness as was stated above) it is a setting in the golem summoning panel. As for rotations, the meta condi holo build does a decent amount of swapping and isn't the most friendly build to play. If you love playing it, more power to you but there's a sword variant that does competitive power damage but much much easier to execute. If you want to reach some higher numbers you should check out kitless holo.

  • Aye, I appreciate the advice and the insight. I wish more people reacted that way when I explain myself

    I actually already kind of map up my skill position to avoid "mishaps". Unfortunately, dyspraxia enforce muscle memory, to the point that changing keys would result in me fumbling around trying to even move... As for changing class, it's a tough one, my engineer is my first char, and I love it's mechanics, so I want to see it succeed at Something. I did notice I have a noticeably easier time on other classes, but I didn't lavish nearly as much love and care into getting the gear up to snuff (relatively speaking) and finding a way to fight that's at least reliable, if not efficient in time.

    My guild and I are currently in the process of building up our own raid group, to be able to take things a bit more slowly, without too much heat. We're gifted with a few members who Actually have a knack for raids, and are willing to help us through it, as well as guildies very eager to learn, however long it takes. It's a slow process.
    I actually have a great appreciation for the party who Did allow me to join their run that one time, as it was my first successful raid, and pushed me to go much deeper into it, and eventually spur the creation of that guild squad. It was nice of them, even if they knew my capacities were not on par with the usual runners.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Naxos.2503 said:
    Aye, I appreciate the advice and the insight. I wish more people reacted that way when I explain myself

    I actually already kind of map up my skill position to avoid "mishaps". Unfortunately, dyspraxia enforce muscle memory, to the point that changing keys would result in me fumbling around trying to even move... As for changing class, it's a tough one, my engineer is my first char, and I love it's mechanics, so I want to see it succeed at Something.

    I should have been clearer but luckily Shikaru.7618 caught that. Changing class can be as easy as changing up your build. Maybe give the sword Holo a go. That way you can stay on your favorite class.

    Good luck and remember, if the people you surround yourself with are fun and easy going, you will enjoy any and all content a lot more in a MMO. One of my main and repeated piece of advice to people who want to raid is: find a guild of like minded and friendly people.

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    One of my main and repeated piece of advice to people who want to raid is: find a guild of like minded and friendly people.

    I think this generally good advice for everyone. Even brininging a friend or guild mate to a PvP match can raise the fun bar exponentially.

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sephylon.4938 said:

    @Blake.1908 said:
    I play my own style making me as a player unique, yes I do have not so good dps, but I have a bunch of other great attributes, so my questions are as follow
    1: why are people allowed to see my dps? it is my account and allowing others to see what happens on my account is in my opinion not fair.

    dps is public information you don't own it.

    2: if i dont want to run Beserker stats on my warrior (meaning I don't do enough dps) then am I not entitled to get my legendary armor?

    Yes, you can get legy armor, just not with the groups that don't want you. Either make a group of your own with friends you know and trust, or grind pvp/wvw for its legendary armor. If you pug, you are subject to their rules as its their group.

    3: players say guild wars is a game about player skill... uh so wheres the "player skill" in pressing what a website says you must press? isn't that the same as bot... hmm makes it pretty hard to mess up... might aswell use macro's because its the same keys over and over, I mean who will ever know

    The point is to have those memorized so you don't have to think about them when kitten hits the fan because of mechanics and you're not panicking because of it. Also certain bosses have dps checks that must be passed or causes the group to wipe.

    4: and last question is... instead of making it so that players have to depend on each others healing/damage buff's. why not make it an individual thing? (will add some competitivity)

    Because then it would just be 10 people playing beside each other instead of with each other. Also not all classes have access to all boons.

    I agree with you. But right now. There's literally no playing with each other.
    The only ones doing that, are druids, chronos and people that have to do mechanics at certain bosses.
    For me, playing with each other was epibounce. Because it required at least some communication.
    Sure it was too strong.
    But right now, it's just braindead button smashing, no need to communicate. Just do your job as DPS.

    (If that was the case that all classes were all things, then only the top dps classes would ever be taken and you'd have even less of a chance to get in unless you mained the top dps class, prob ele)

    thank you in advance for any feedback

    edit
    adding more to it, people prefer the tried and tested as they know the odds of it and it is familiar to them. Your special build is a wild card to them and they'd prefer to avoid such things especially since there are enough seemingly random factors that lead to wipes.

  • @Vashan.3098 said:

    If there's a raid encounter that requires one to solo a bunch of mobs and a boss you'll be the first one I call. The current raid environment does not require that. If I'm taking a mirage they need to be dealing 15k+ dps in a raid setting. If your open world mirage can do that you're more than welcome to join. Don't actually care what build you run as long as it produces results.

    That is exactly the type of people we need in online gaming.

    As I said, I have never been in any raid so I dont know what the encounters and strategy are. I dont even have all ascended pieces yet and I am rly not sure about my dps and also it can get much higher when buffed by teammates (as everyone elses)
    And you are absolutely correct about my "build" as I do more dps when there is boss with mobs around than I do when damaging the boss alone.

    Dont take what I am going to write as arguing, I think you are inteligent person and I agree with what you said.
    What I want to say that there might be other aspect to party's dps and I will use my experience from T3 fracts.
    With sigil of stamina that refills my endurance when I kill a foe, it really makes killing bunches of mobs easier, but on boss that doesnt summon anyone it is not that effective.
    But still, there are in game effects making your endurance faster -> Helping you summon more your coppies and doing my ambush attacks more often.
    Result of this is that even if my overall long term damage is lower, I am trading the damage sacrificed for invulnerability (both me and my copies), helping your teammates with survivability which might result into bigger "overall party dps".

    I think you get my point. And I am aware of there might be better ways to improve my dps while maintaining same survivability but I didnt reach it yet. :)

    I think you will find that 90% of pug groups have the same attitude, that as long as you are doing your job they dont care if you are running meta builds or not. The problem is, most people who dont use meta builds do a bad job so people are distrustful of them.

    In raids you have support classes providing you with survivability. They give defensive buffs (protection/aegis) and also heal any damage you might take so as long as they do THEIR job, you never need to worry about staying alive, just doing maximum damage.

    Its also while its really important that people actually do their job, because if the healer is failing to heal, then the whole group will wipe since people dont bring survivability into their build since they are expecting it to be covered. This is why its a big problem when people like OP join groups. It brings the whole team down and the only way to overcome that is to kick the failing player. You cant reasonably expect 9 random, inexperienced people to change their gameplay to cover the failure of that person.

  • Deepcuts.9740Deepcuts.9740 Member ✭✭✭

    Another experience just now:
    Joined a guild W6B1 training run as a Druid out of boredom.
    Understanding that a training run is well, a training run, I kept my mouth shut in /d
    In 6 tries, only the Commander, a Daredevil , did over 10K dps with a max of 12K dps.
    Another one, I forgot the class did a constant 8K dps.
    And the rest, wait for it...all under 5K dps.
    Not even talking about the fact that they had no clue about tactics and they kept repeating the same mistakes over and over. Its the job of the Commander to point them out not a random join like me.
    After the 3rd try, I told the Commander in /w that we need a lot more dps. No reaction besides the reply "I know"
    After the 6th try, I told them that without a lot more dps, they will not manage to kill it and that I am out.
    Couple of seconds later, the same group on lfg added the text: "NO flame".

  • Zunki.3916Zunki.3916 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 27, 2018

    I am at 300 Li, 95% gained offmeta while pugging. Noone cares for your spec as long as you deliver (depending on the encounter thats 10k-20k, really nothing insane - Every weapon combination paired with the right attributes can do this).
    If you don't they might ask you about the spec, and that's actually implying it's the spec fault and not the players skill, which might be even a nice move if you ask me.

    Before ArcDps and raids everyone was wanting me to link zerker gear or I got kicked, THAT SUCKED

    Viable != Optimal

    Not viable = You only get carried, 10 players with a build as "viable as yours" can't properly do it.

  • ProtoGunner.4953ProtoGunner.4953 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Deepcuts.9740 said:
    Another experience just now:
    Joined a guild W6B1 training run as a Druid out of boredom.
    Understanding that a training run is well, a training run, I kept my mouth shut in /d
    In 6 tries, only the Commander, a Daredevil , did over 10K dps with a max of 12K dps.
    Another one, I forgot the class did a constant 8K dps.
    And the rest, wait for it...all under 5K dps.
    Not even talking about the fact that they had no clue about tactics and they kept repeating the same mistakes over and over. Its the job of the Commander to point them out not a random join like me.
    After the 3rd try, I told the Commander in /w that we need a lot more dps. No reaction besides the reply "I know"
    After the 6th try, I told them that without a lot more dps, they will not manage to kill it and that I am out.
    Couple of seconds later, the same group on lfg added the text: "NO flame".

    That't the biggest problem: newer players to raids are in this limbo. If you are good but can't show any proof of how good you are. Some people just learn much faster/are more talented than others. I had this a lot of times. Though I don't do raids that often (or playing the whole game since a couple of years).

  • They should get rid of arc dps and implement thier own system. And im sorry to tell you but dps does matter. If everyone played your "style" then the boss would enrage and you would constantly wipe, which will make every1 enrage.

  • Turin.6921Turin.6921 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 4, 2018

    @Naxos.2503 said:
    Aye, I appreciate the advice and the insight. I wish more people reacted that way when I explain myself

    I actually already kind of map up my skill position to avoid "mishaps". Unfortunately, dyspraxia enforce muscle memory, to the point that changing keys would result in me fumbling around trying to even move... As for changing class, it's a tough one, my engineer is my first char, and I love it's mechanics, so I want to see it succeed at Something. I did notice I have a noticeably easier time on other classes, but I didn't lavish nearly as much love and care into getting the gear up to snuff (relatively speaking) and finding a way to fight that's at least reliable, if not efficient in time.

    My guild and I are currently in the process of building up our own raid group, to be able to take things a bit more slowly, without too much heat. We're gifted with a few members who Actually have a knack for raids, and are willing to help us through it, as well as guildies very eager to learn, however long it takes. It's a slow process.
    I actually have a great appreciation for the party who Did allow me to join their run that one time, as it was my first successful raid, and pushed me to go much deeper into it, and eventually spur the creation of that guild squad. It was nice of them, even if they knew my capacities were not on par with the usual runners.

    If you do not want to change class i would say to look up kitless sword holo :

    https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Holosmith_-_Power_DPS_No_Kit

    or if you really want to stay condi to use the simplified condi rotation:

    It has an actual pattern and much easier to learn and do correctly on a raid encounter than the meta rota.

  • Kitless Holo+sword is a lot of fun. And it's much, much, much easier than kitful Holo+Rifle. You have a lot more time to give attention to working on "footwork" and mechanics. (The biggest down side is that the 'cleave' is "too good" in a couple of fights in which you don't want adds to die too soon.)

    "With great power comes not-so-great utility bills."

  • I did manage to jumpstart my DPS to a more useful 18k using more explosives in my rotation. The rest of the DPS will come when my gear is finalized. As it turns out, my build was burning centered. I did reach Very high Numbers with it, but I underestimated the cumulative conditions that are accessible to a pistol pistol holo. I took down another VG with some guildies. I still do some messes due to my fingers fumbling, but having 3 kits active seems to make it so it's not That handicapping (Always a skill active, and a chrono with Alacrity helps even more. Guild raid party is well on it's way too.

  • yann.1946yann.1946 Member ✭✭✭

    @Naxos.2503 said:
    I did manage to jumpstart my DPS to a more useful 18k using more explosives in my rotation. The rest of the DPS will come when my gear is finalized. As it turns out, my build was burning centered. I did reach Very high Numbers with it, but I underestimated the cumulative conditions that are accessible to a pistol pistol holo. I took down another VG with some guildies. I still do some messes due to my fingers fumbling, but having 3 kits active seems to make it so it's not That handicapping (Always a skill active, and a chrono with Alacrity helps even more. Guild raid party is well on it's way too.

    congratulations on the VG kill, and gl with youre hands.

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