Runes and Sigils rework at 11/13 - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Runes and Sigils rework at 11/13

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Comments

  • These changes are an initial step because of a chance in policy.

    There was to be further changes down the road. That much should be pretty obvious.

  • MyPuppy.8970MyPuppy.8970 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I want to play now!

  • breno.5423breno.5423 Member ✭✭✭

    @MikeL.8260 said:
    I'm not sure why most people fail to see why the 3 second 100% crit is better than next 3 attacks.

    Because some builds cast much more than 3 skills in 3 seconds, i gave some examples (idk why i have to explain such obvious fact).

  • Ghos.1326Ghos.1326 Member ✭✭✭

    I wonder how Sigil of Courage will be affected. I'm interested in seeing this new revamp soon.

    The greatest enemy to improvement, is ignorance. But the desire to learn will cast ignorance into the fire.

  • RisenHowl.2419RisenHowl.2419 Member ✭✭✭

    @breno.5423 said:

    @MikeL.8260 said:
    I'm not sure why most people fail to see why the 3 second 100% crit is better than next 3 attacks.

    Because some builds cast much more than 3 skills in 3 seconds, i gave some examples (idk why i have to explain such obvious fact).

    Right? And it's not like 3s invulns/block are on a 10s CD

  • Yannir.4132Yannir.4132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I appreciate you guys looking into outdated things but this seems like it'll be an absolute farce on the WvW side of the game. Nobody really cares about more powercreep in PvE. And this doesn't concern PvP as much.
    Can we just get 5k more HP on all classes now? Thanks.

  • sigil of vision is not going to be good lol. as soon as you see that sigil buff pop up guess what? dodge. now their build is useless because theyre using Valkyrie or cavalier amulet.
    quickness sigil is gonna be stronk. maybe some of the rune reworks will be stronk but I cant imagine most of them will be close to viable considering how bad most of them are.

    pew~

  • mrauls.6519mrauls.6519 Member ✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    sigil of vision is not going to be good lol. as soon as you see that sigil buff pop up guess what? dodge. now their build is useless because theyre using Valkyrie or cavalier amulet.
    quickness sigil is gonna be stronk. maybe some of the rune reworks will be stronk but I cant imagine most of them will be close to viable considering how bad most of them are.

    Vision is going to be strong as hell. Not sure what it's going to compete with because we haven't seen the full list, but classes like Holo (that currently use intelligence) will have that 3 second window up frequently (holo mode on/off - guessing 9 second CD)

    Twitch | YouTube

    Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

  • @Cal Cohen.3527 said:
    If you do the math on the Scholar change you'll see that 125 ferocity is about a 3-4% damage increase depending on amulet choice and additional crit chance. Given that the 6 bonus loses 5%>90% the overall damage ends up being pretty similar. You get a bit more damage while under 90% at the cost of damage over 90%, which is probably a positive most of the time but isn't an increase to 1-shot potential.

    Alright, perhaps math was never my strong suit, but from where I'm sitting the Scholar rune change looks like a direct buff.

    I know the context of Cal's message was in reference to a pvp environment, where you can't guarantee 100% critical chance, but in a raid environment, you can.

    125 extra ferocity (15 points of ferocity equals 1% more Crit hit damage) translates to 8.33% increase to your critical hit damage, multiplied by 100% critical hit chance (aka, 1) is 8.33%. Doesn't this mean that the rune set causes you to deal 8.33% higher dps? This more than makes up for the lost 5% over 90% HP. Assuming you stay over 90% in a raid, wont you be doing MORE dps with new scholar than with old?

  • @Shadowshear.2095 said:
    Alright, perhaps math was never my strong suit, but from where I'm sitting the Scholar rune change looks like a direct buff.

    I know the context of Cal's message was in reference to a pvp environment, where you can't guarantee 100% critical chance, but in a raid environment, you can.

    125 extra ferocity (15 points of ferocity equals 1% more Crit hit damage) translates to 8.33% increase to your critical hit damage, multiplied by 100% critical hit chance (aka, 1) is 8.33%. Doesn't this mean that the rune set causes you to deal 8.33% higher dps? This more than makes up for the lost 5% over 90% HP. Assuming you stay over 90% in a raid, wont you be doing MORE dps with new scholar than with old?

    No, because that's not the whole picture.

    Assuming that you're a Deadeye with:

    • Ascended Berserker Equipment
    • 6 Superior Runes of the Scholar
    • Ability: "Signet of Agility"
    • Trait: "Practiced Tolerance (10% Precision is converted to Ferocity)" and "No Quarter (+250 Ferocity with Fury)"

    This results in:

    • 1524 Ferocity (251.60% on Critical Strike) before the change
    • 1649 Ferocity (259.93% on Critical Strike) after the change

    This is the "8.33%" which was mentioned.

    However, assuming that each Attack does "100 Damage", which on Critical Strike is "251.60 Damage" before and "259.93" Damage after.

    251.60 Damage × (1 + 10%) = 276.76 Damage
    259.93 Damage × (1 + 5%) = 272.93 Damage

    As you can see, it is a 3.83% decrease (3.83 less for every 100 dealt) in overall damage.

    I would agree that it is a good change in terms of stability due to the fact that players are more likely to fight with their faces instead of actual weapons.
    However, the fact that it is actually a nerf in the most optimal situation should not be ignored.

  • @Nodius Caelestis.3892 said:

    This is the "8.33%" which was mentioned.

    However, assuming that each Attack does "100 Damage", which on Critical Strike is "251.60 Damage" before and "259.93" Damage after.

    251.60 Damage × (1 + 10%) = 276.76 Damage
    259.93 Damage × (1 + 5%) = 272.93 Damage

    As you can see, it is a 3.83% decrease (3.83 less for every 100 dealt) in overall damage.

    Thank you! That makes total sense now.

  • DEATHsCLAW.1978DEATHsCLAW.1978 Member ✭✭
    edited November 14, 2018

    just want to give in my 2 cents to rune changes:
    overall good changes but there are 2 exeptions which stand out:

    -rune of mirage: the torment on dodge needs an icd or we will see even more permandodge mirages and even thiefs abusing the additional condi application while permaevading

    -rune of sanctuary: under focus this rune increases healing applied to you by 20%, which is to strong already. on top there are exploits like when being ressed the rune applies enourmous amounts of barrier and another one is with scrourge vampiric heals and abrasive grit.. I dont think this can be balanced so I suggest a redesign here!

    the other runes seem ok ish to me. I also want to point out that the only class who really benefits from the new "op" rune of speed is necromancer (and to a lesser extend pewpew ranger and revenant). all other classes have acces to multiple teleports/leaps or superspeed to engange and disengage so the actual speed buff wont really affect the total distance travelled too much. on top the rune gives vitality which is not really a desired stat for rune id say since u can get that easily otherwise. if the total swiftness buff with rune shoud be 99% (speedfactor 1.5) or 66% (spfactor 1.25) is debatable.. in pvp 66% is definitely the way to go

  • I understand that very few people use Rune of Rata Sum, but I am one of them and the rework makes 0 sense. It is completely unnecessary and absolutely absurd! Why would you add might stack to a condi rune that had 0 issues and few complaints to begin with! It needs to be put back to how it was.

  • bunker meta here we come!!! (?)

  • reikken.4961reikken.4961 Member ✭✭✭

    @Draakfire.3691 said:
    I understand that very few people use Rune of Rata Sum, but I am one of them and the rework makes 0 sense. It is completely unnecessary and absolutely absurd! Why would you add might stack to a condi rune that had 0 issues and few complaints to begin with! It needs to be put back to how it was.

    I don't use the rune either, but seeing a 180 on its primary function got a frown out of me while I was reading through the list of rune changes

  • august.8016august.8016 Member ✭✭
    edited November 14, 2018

    Superior Rune of the Daredevil it's a "little" broke.
    (6): Next attack is guaranteed to crit after completing a dodge roll while in combat.
    Instead ingame do 3 sec of inifinite crits not only one.
    Pls fix it

    update: Daredevil runes proc off any mirage cloak whether you dodge or not

  • Superior Rune of the Evasion need an andjustament with the interaction of weaver elite spec.
    (6): +125 ferocity ; gain Swiftness for 6 seconds after evading an attack.
    No Internal cd activates a sequence of trait cause a permanent immunity to all condition with water/weaver trait lines.

  • MyPuppy.8970MyPuppy.8970 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @august.8016 said:
    Superior Rune of the Evasion need an andjustament with the interaction of weaver elite spec.
    (6): +125 ferocity ; gain Swiftness for 6 seconds after evading an attack.
    No Internal cd activates a sequence of trait cause a permanent immunity to all condition with water/weaver trait lines.

    2 GM traits, and dps of a dead oyster. Just do as usual: power burst and spike damage.

  • @MyPuppy.8970 said:

    @august.8016 said:
    Superior Rune of the Evasion need an andjustament with the interaction of weaver elite spec.
    (6): +125 ferocity ; gain Swiftness for 6 seconds after evading an attack.
    No Internal cd activates a sequence of trait cause a permanent immunity to all condition with water/weaver trait lines.

    2 GM traits, and dps of a dead oyster. Just do as usual: power burst and spike damage.

    How about a 5s icd on weaver traits, you know the same as was done to scourge.

  • MyPuppy.8970MyPuppy.8970 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @RisenHowl.2419 said:

    @MyPuppy.8970 said:

    @august.8016 said:
    Superior Rune of the Evasion need an andjustament with the interaction of weaver elite spec.
    (6): +125 ferocity ; gain Swiftness for 6 seconds after evading an attack.
    No Internal cd activates a sequence of trait cause a permanent immunity to all condition with water/weaver trait lines.

    2 GM traits, and dps of a dead oyster. Just do as usual: power burst and spike damage.

    How about a 5s icd on weaver traits, you know the same as was done to scourge.

    Woven stride already has 3s icd. Albeit for swiftness proc on impeding conditions. That would make it the only trait with 2 different icd, for the weakest prof.

  • @MyPuppy.8970 said:

    @RisenHowl.2419 said:

    @MyPuppy.8970 said:

    @august.8016 said:
    Superior Rune of the Evasion need an andjustament with the interaction of weaver elite spec.
    (6): +125 ferocity ; gain Swiftness for 6 seconds after evading an attack.
    No Internal cd activates a sequence of trait cause a permanent immunity to all condition with water/weaver trait lines.

    2 GM traits, and dps of a dead oyster. Just do as usual: power burst and spike damage.

    How about a 5s icd on weaver traits, you know the same as was done to scourge.

    Woven stride already has 3s icd. Albeit for swiftness proc on impeding conditions. That would make it the only trait with 2 different icd, for the weakest prof.

    You're right, a 5s cd on the water trait that cleanses conditions on granting regeneration is more appropriate here

  • the problem are the runes here not the traits

    rune of mirage (6): gain swiftness when evading an attack

    rune of evasion (6): apply torment when evading an attack

    both bonuses need an icd of 1-2 seconds otherwise they can be abused on high evade specs like weaver, thief, mirage, ...

  • MyPuppy.8970MyPuppy.8970 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @RisenHowl.2419 said:

    @MyPuppy.8970 said:

    @RisenHowl.2419 said:

    @MyPuppy.8970 said:

    @august.8016 said:
    Superior Rune of the Evasion need an andjustament with the interaction of weaver elite spec.
    (6): +125 ferocity ; gain Swiftness for 6 seconds after evading an attack.
    No Internal cd activates a sequence of trait cause a permanent immunity to all condition with water/weaver trait lines.

    2 GM traits, and dps of a dead oyster. Just do as usual: power burst and spike damage.

    How about a 5s icd on weaver traits, you know the same as was done to scourge.

    Woven stride already has 3s icd. Albeit for swiftness proc on impeding conditions. That would make it the only trait with 2 different icd, for the weakest prof.

    You're right, a 5s cd on the water trait that cleanses conditions on granting regeneration is more appropriate here

    It would be, but it won't happen.

  • @MyPuppy.8970 said:

    @RisenHowl.2419 said:

    @MyPuppy.8970 said:

    @RisenHowl.2419 said:

    @MyPuppy.8970 said:

    @august.8016 said:
    Superior Rune of the Evasion need an andjustament with the interaction of weaver elite spec.
    (6): +125 ferocity ; gain Swiftness for 6 seconds after evading an attack.
    No Internal cd activates a sequence of trait cause a permanent immunity to all condition with water/weaver trait lines.

    2 GM traits, and dps of a dead oyster. Just do as usual: power burst and spike damage.

    How about a 5s icd on weaver traits, you know the same as was done to scourge.

    Woven stride already has 3s icd. Albeit for swiftness proc on impeding conditions. That would make it the only trait with 2 different icd, for the weakest prof.

    You're right, a 5s cd on the water trait that cleanses conditions on granting regeneration is more appropriate here

    It would be, but it won't happen.

    You know, we said that about scourge and sanctuary runes. Thing is, if they don't follow the same route with the ele trait there's going to be outrage lol

  • Ganathar.4956Ganathar.4956 Member ✭✭✭

    @RisenHowl.2419 said:

    @MyPuppy.8970 said:

    @RisenHowl.2419 said:

    @MyPuppy.8970 said:

    @RisenHowl.2419 said:

    @MyPuppy.8970 said:

    @august.8016 said:
    Superior Rune of the Evasion need an andjustament with the interaction of weaver elite spec.
    (6): +125 ferocity ; gain Swiftness for 6 seconds after evading an attack.
    No Internal cd activates a sequence of trait cause a permanent immunity to all condition with water/weaver trait lines.

    2 GM traits, and dps of a dead oyster. Just do as usual: power burst and spike damage.

    How about a 5s icd on weaver traits, you know the same as was done to scourge.

    Woven stride already has 3s icd. Albeit for swiftness proc on impeding conditions. That would make it the only trait with 2 different icd, for the weakest prof.

    You're right, a 5s cd on the water trait that cleanses conditions on granting regeneration is more appropriate here

    It would be, but it won't happen.

    You know, we said that about scourge and sanctuary runes. Thing is, if they don't follow the same route with the ele trait there's going to be outrage lol

    Except having an ICD on effects that happen on evading is the norm. It's only the new mirage and evasion runes that are the exception. There was no precedent for the sanctuary rune. Also, idk if it's just me but potentially getting minutes of swiftness from dodging is broken by itself anyway, even without the trait interaction. There is a difference here, even if you refuse to admit it. Not that Anet's decision to nerf necro was the best that they could have done. And there is going to be outrage either way. Either the necros will complain or eles will complain about PvP. Ele is already barely semi-viable in PvP and woven stride is a huge reason why. If it goes, then ele will probably disappear.

  • Give me rune of mercy!!!
    Rezz thief new meta! :)

    Im fine with the rework, can someone tell me the dmg of different runes? (Like grenth)

    Ty and have a great day <3

  • @Chaith.8256 said:
    I'm growing tired of the players (and devs) who keep suggesting (and implemented) these new ICDs on previously fine traits. Doing this as responses to new Runes...

    It wasn't the right decision to massively nerf Abrasive Grit in order for reasonable level of performance IF Sanct runes were taken. It's still not the right choice to nerf Woven Stride or Cleansing Water into obscurity unless the mandatory Evasion runes are present.

    Ideally the classes and traitlines should be widely functional with many rune options.. Not balanced around having a single set of Runes.

    This ^^

    I fear the current trend of treating the symptom and not the cause will only make balance worse -_-

    Sparkr's Wonderful World of Engineering - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEONFRaJV2u2f12ytXEir9A

  • Crinn.7864Crinn.7864 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Chaith.8256 said:
    Ideally the classes and traitlines should be widely functional with many rune options.. Not balanced around having a single set of Runes.

    This so much this.

    Sanity is for the weak minded
    YouTube

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