TwiceDead.1963
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Title. Help me out, you wizards, you... Optimizing my builds right now.

I need to know how to hit 100% WITHOUT using any boons of my own.

EDIT: Think I found my answer. 2073 precision seems to be the number I have to hit before spotters, fury and banners to get 100%.

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## Comments

Depends on the class. Each class has atleast 1 trait that boosts its crit chance. Example being decimate defences, righteous instincts, twin fangs, danger time etc

I am a giant tomato filled with love. I have come to sell you a house made out of pancakes.

It's easy

Even if you don't trait for it or slot a rune, this means you'll need:

80-5-7=68

68×21 = 2428 points in precision.

If we add a precision rune it's simply:

2428-175= 2253, which is easily doable with assasins gear or get very close with ascended marauder/zerker with traits and other food/utility buffs.

This heavily depends on the class und build you are using. Guards can gain 60% (up to 75% for 1h weapons) critical rate just from using Radiance. Renegades can get 73% from Roiling Mists (Invocation) and Brutal Momentum (Renegade). Also team comp is important. Have you access to perma fury, banners, spotter? Also also runes, sigil, food und stat conversions. The question is simply to complex to give an simple answer without knowing details. Also 100% crit chance is not needed as it depends what you have to sacrifice for this crit rate (stats).

This wiki site (Average damage increase) might also be interesting.

Yeah, but... Here's what I said in my first post:

So I really don't want to know how to hit 100% if I have crit-chance sources of my own. I want to know how I can hit 100% when everybody else buffs me. I know you're trying to help, but that doesn't tell me what I want to know.

This is exactly what I was looking for. Thank you

You do realize though that the math rng.1024 did was for reaching 100% crit WITH fury boon right?

80 (80% crit chance desired) - 5 (base crit chance) - 7 (Sigil of Accuracy) = 68 (68% crit chance with base crit chance and Sigil of Accuracy)Thus if you wanted to reach 100% crit without boons you would have to calculate:

100 - 5 - 7 = 88

88 x 21 = 2848 (base 1000 being in there)

Now this does not take into account which class you play and any traits you might be using which increase crit chance beside boons.

## No worries, with a party:

Buffs from others:Fury (20%)

Traited Banner of Discipline (170 precision)

Spotter (100 precision)

Buffs from gear:Sigil of Accuracy (7%)

So you want to cap at 80%, so with fury you have 100% chance so no stats go to waste and you can put them into more damage instead. So let's deduct:

100% (max crit chance) - 20% (fury)- 7% (sigil) - 5% (base crit chance) = 68% needed.

Every 21 points in precision raises your crit chance by 1%, so right now you'll need 68*21 = 1428 + 1000 (base precision at lvl 80) =

2428 precision.## Time to incorporate the party buffs onto this value:

2428 (current precision) - 170 (banner) - 100 (spotter) =

2158 pointsneeded in precision to reach 100% crit chance.## Time for profession specific bonuses:

Ele:

With Signet of Fire (2158-180=

1978)With Lightning Hammer (2158-180=

1978)With both (2158-180-180=

1798)Thief:

With Signet of Agility (2158-180=

1978)Warrior:

With Signet of Fury passive (2158-180=

1978)With Signet of Fury Active (2158-360=

1798)With traited banner (2158-(255-170 since already accounted for)85=

2073)With traited banner and passive signet(2158-85-180=

1893)## Why not other modifiers?

These values are useful in order to achieve an easy constant 100% crit rate for all classes in a regular raid/fractal scenario.

There are other benefits, like thief's precision when under quickness, interrupt sigils and the like, but they sometimes don't have 100% uptime and therefore can't be relied upon in every group.

## Further calculations:

If there are other flat crit chance modifiers you want to calculate, remember to subtract the 1000 base precision first before calculating percentages.

Example:

A guardian with the trait "Righteous Instincts" that give him 50% extra crit chance when under the effect of retaliation.

We already calculated above that the generic class will need 2158 precision with party buffs to reach 100% crit chance.

You calculate this by first subtracting the base precision (2158-1000=1158), then apply the percentage (1158×0,5=579) then add the base value again so it fits with the hero panel (579+1000=1579). A guardian with the buffs only need

1579precision to get 100% crit chance. Remember the minor traits too, like 10% crit chance on burning enemies, 15% with one handed weapons - just add these to the percentage (here 0,5-0,1-0,15=0,25, so with those modifiers you'll only need 1158*0,25~290+1000=1290points in precision.Just post if you have questions, even better for a specific class and I can tailor a value for you if need be

Edit: If you have a rune with 175 precision, use (2158-175=) 1983 as the generic value before you subtract the signet modifiers to see how much precision you'll need.

You want to reach 2305 precision (including food) before buffs which is equal to 67.142857% critchance to get to exaclty 100%

Buffs= Fury(=+20%crit/420prec) +Spotter(=100 prec/4.761904%)

+Banner of Discipline(170(about 8.095238%)/or (255prec/12,142857%) if you are warrior and using inspiring banner trait (+85)= 32.857143% crit chance.

Critical Chance = (Precision - 895) / 21 = Crit Chance %

(In other words, Critical Chance is 0% when Precision is 895, and increases by 1% for every 21 Precision above that).

From the above equation it follows that 2995 Precision is enough to reach 100% Critical Chance when fully buffed + all boons)

Subtract the amount you get from banner of discipline(170), spotter(100) and fury(20*21=420), and you reach 2305, which is the number we will be aiming for.

49.7% base Crit Chance using ALL ascended berserker’s gear.

69.8% base Crit Chance using ALL ascended assassin’s gear.

Superior Sigil of Accuracy(7%) gives the equivalent of 147 precision

meaning we will need to aim for 2158 base precision if we are using it.

Superior Sigil of Perception stacking increase (+11.90% max/250prec).

Source: https://discretize.eu/guides/crit-cap https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Precision

"It is impossible to live without failing at something, unless you live so cautiously that you might has well not have lived at all, in which case you have failed by default"- J.K Rowling

“The more you know, the more you know you don't know.”-Aristotle

False, here from wiki how to calc: Critical Chance is 0% when Precision is 895, and increases by 1% for every 21 Precision above that).

"It is impossible to live without failing at something, unless you live so cautiously that you might has well not have lived at all, in which case you have failed by default"- J.K Rowling

“The more you know, the more you know you don't know.”-Aristotle

Remember you reach this value before lvl 80 (since attributes cap at 1000 then) meaning you get 105 extra precision at max level - which is 105/21=5% bonus that I took into account before converting crit chance into precision.

I would argue that 100% uptime for Lightning Hammer is hard to achieve (other players picking it up, boss has to remain 100% of the time static) and it isn't the optimal dps choice.

The Signet of Fury Active should not be listed as it has no 100% uptime, no even worse you lose the passive after the 4sec active and have 80% downtime.

I also think you point about reliance on boons (like the quickness example) it a weak point to dismiss other effects. If you go down this route you have to take away fury, spotter, banners. Basically all outside sources. You can't say with 100% certanty that those will be up 100%. That's why personal modifiers are so important. Most of them can be controlled by you. If they have no 100% uptime, that's on you. The other buffs from other players are not under your controll, so they shouldn't be used for 100% uptime calculations according to your own logic. And if 100% crit rate is the way to go for all builds (even power, average damage increase and power calcs are the important points here) is questionable too.

See my math above pls. Cus your math is wrong. And links if you need proof

Note.(2073precision-895)/21=56.0952% crit chance + banner of discipline(8.095238%) +spotter (4.761904%)+fury (20%)= 88.9523% crit chance

"It is impossible to live without failing at something, unless you live so cautiously that you might has well not have lived at all, in which case you have failed by default"- J.K Rowling

“The more you know, the more you know you don't know.”-Aristotle

True, at 895 precision crit chance is 0. You reach 895 precision before hitting level 80.

Again, at level 80 you have 1,000 base precision without any gear or trait bonuses. Those 105 extra precision are the 5% base crit chance.

When Arenanet changed the system way back, this was changed. So yes, while you are technically correct that there is no base crit chance, the fact that you are given free 105 precision above the 895 base accounts for a free 5% crit at level 80.

Very easy to check, strip a level 80 character of all stats (gear and traits) and you will see that your base precision is 1,000.

EDIT: the wiki even states this:

Yeah.

I listed class specific effects (signets and conjures) because at the time we didn't know op's preferred profession. Never stated conjures and active signets have 100% uptime, they are included because you can control when they are used. The reason I then calculate with actives, is in case you can cap out without the fury boon, which is suboptimal.

As for other effects: It's a whole lot easier to get a warr and ranger dropping these 2 buffs than it is to get a 100% boon duration chronomancer who knows his rotations (and a party who stick close enough to get them). The banner and spotter don't require active gameplay, and therefore stands to reason they are more easily obtainable in a group.

Let's revise the quickness example:

Yes a thief can get perma quick on his own. Will he then be able to do damage? No. So he need a chrono or fb. The buff isn't even party wide, why would anyone want to include it in order to cap when you don't have full uptime on yourself? Again suboptimal.

According to my own logic only gear, banner, spotter, utility skills and fury can provide a reliable stable 100% crit rate. Taking into account everything else

in casethe stars align means you're bound to underperform at times since these factors aren't under your control. If your profession is in it for the dps - it won't have 50% boon duration.Please enlighten us on how capping out on a 100% crit-rate is questionable for achieving top dps ^^

With 2073 precision you wont reach 100%. its to little

“The more you know, the more you know you don't know.”-Aristotle

You need to reread what was written and which target values were aimed for.

The initial calculation was for reaching 80% crit (which is obvious from the calculation of rng). The later calculations took into account more than just the fury boon.

Second, it makes no difference if you calculate from 895 and 0% crit or from 1,000 and 5% crit, mathematically in relations to crit, it's the same.

Third, you compare base banner of discipline (170 precision) to inspired banner of discipline (255 precision) which rng was using in his later math. On top of that rng was using 7% crit from a Sigil of Accuracy. These two issues make up the difference in your and his calculation.

You deserve a cookie!

I never said something about the thief getting the quickness itself. That would be wasted potential. But you mentioned FB yourself. And getting 100% quickness uptime as a FB isn't really that hard. Pressing 2 buttons every couple seconds and maybe a third, depending on boonduration can't be really messed up. But that's the thing, yes the buff are easy to get, this means if you have this classes, always. And this is the problem. What if you don't have them. Either you take optimal conditions into account (right classes, 100% uptime on relevant buffs) or you don't. That's my problem with your logic.

It depends on what you need to sacrifice for the 100% crit-rate. If you take more precision oriented gear just to meet 100% critrate you might miss out on power/ condi dmg. Depending on power calcs/condi application this might lower the damage. Also by taking utilities just to meet 100% critrate you might miss out on powerful abilities which would boost your dps far more. Coming close to 100% sure, but getting 100% at all costs is questionable especially on condi builds as crit procs are not frequent enough to put 100% above all else in priority.

idk bout yall but if I can get 90% crit with fury then I call it a day.

Again, 2 passive buffs with a huge range that require you only to stay close vs. gear dependent usage of skills cast by a 2nd party with their own limitations. Anyone can plop down a banner and equip a trait, asking for more will inevitably leave you short. I'm not arguing that this is hard - even if we assume every pug group got a guardian, there will be some you can't rely on. If you want to argue opinions, I'm perfectly fine with you feeling it's all or nothing - if that's the case disregard my math and substitute your own for the benefit of all ^^

The whole point of giving precision numbers was so that you could invest as little points into precision as possible for more power. 100% critrate coupled with full minor ferocity stat will

alwaysyield higher damage over time.Why on earth would a condi build care about precision? In PvE there are no cleanses, so expertise is king. If the few procs you get for precision is the bulk of your damage, then you are doing it wrong. Looking at the scenario we created above, without any investment in precision you'd already (255(banner)+100(spotter)=355/21=16,9%+5%(lvl80 crit chance)+20%(fury)~42%) crit every 2,5 hit, and since most trait procs have an internal cooldown of more than (let's be generous) 3 seconds, any further investment in precision will be a waste.

Inspiring Battle Standard stats increase only applies to you not allies. Which means you need to be warrior to benefit from it, and in some places for example fractals its better to have Sigil of Impact (+10% damage vs stunned or knocked down foes) to benefit from frequently broken defiance bars.And from the wiki page as you linked

''At level 80, the formula relating Precision to Critical Chance via the Hero Panel is:Critical Chance = (Precision - 895) / 21''

Warrior player(including food)= (2073precision-895)/21=56.0952% crit chance + Banner of Discipline with Inspiring battle standard(255prec/12,142857%) +Spotter (100/4.761904%)+fury (20x21=420/20%)+ Sigil of Accuracy(147/+7%)=

2995 Precision/ 100% Crit chancePlayers who can not benefit from banner trait(including food)=(2073precision-895)/21=56.0952% crit chance + Banner of Discipline (170/8.095238%) +Spotter (100/4.761904%)+Fury (20x21=420/20%)+ Sigil of Accuracy(147/+7%)= 2910 Precision/95.952380% Crit chance

Players who can not benefit from banner trait(including food)=(2073precision-895)/21=56.0952% crit chance + Banner of Discipline (170/8.095238%) +Spotter (100/4.761904%)+Fury (20x21=420/20%)+Sigil of Perception stacking increase (+11.90% max/250prec)= 3013 Precision/100.857142% Crit chance which is to much.

Players who can not benefit from banner trait (including food)2305 precision=(2305-895)/21=67.142857% crit chance + Fury(=+20%crit/420prec) +Spotter(=100 prec/4.761904%)

+Banner of Discipline(170(about 8.095238%)=

2995 Precision/100% Crit Chancei.e ( 2995precision-895)/21= 100%.Before the Spotter nerf (May 08, 2018) when it did give 150 precision all that matters is that you did hit 2255 Precision, but now its at 100 precision which leaves us to where we are today at 2305 Precision (before buffs)

Heres an video before the May 8th 2018 patch (when we would want to have 2255)-

“The more you know, the more you know you don't know.”-Aristotle

@Cyninja.2954 @rng.1024

Yeah only for power based build/proffesion you want to have 100% crit chance, Condition Damage cannot critically strike.

Consequently, condition damage gains no benefit from precision or critical damage modifiers.

A character's chance of critical cannot become higher than 100%.

For condi builds you want to have 100%condi duration + 555 expertise.

For every 15 points of expertise, you gain 1% condition duration.

For every 15 points of concentration, you gain 1% boon duration.

Power based builds= Its possible that some proffesion will get slightly higher affective power with less than 100% crit chance however from quality of life perspective having exatly 100% is very desirable in even if potentially the dps is 0.000001% sub optimal , many proffesions have traits thats convert certain precent of stats X to stats Y, says convert Precision to Ferocity, your stats from gear and food contribute to this but not from signets or buffs.

“The more you know, the more you know you don't know.”-Aristotle

That's the point. You wanted to know why 100% crit rate could be questionable (you made no difference between condi or power in your posts). But I'm out of this discussion. It leads to nothing of value. Thank you for your time anyway.

You keep saying the exact same thing, which aside from the mistake on the banner of discipline for other characters beside warrior from rng and my side, is the same thing rng has been doing the math on.

rng did the math WITH 7% crit from a Sigil of Accuracy and based on the 1,000 precision each character has at level 80 (which he refered to as base 5% crit).

Since you like to point to the wiki but fail to read what I wrote from it, once again:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Precision

You can NOT drop below 1,000 precision. It's the base value at level 80. You are forced to have a base 5% crit, which was accounted for earlier. You repeating the 895 precision being 0% crit does nothing to change this, on the contrary, it simply proves that 1,000 precision is accountable for 5% base crit.

Nobody is disputing the 2995 precision needed for 100% crit. It does not apply though once you factor in 7% crit Sigil and other effects which reduce this number, which was again mentioned in every post. The only mistake was the added precision from the warrior banner affecting other classes.

You said:

Which at that point was not wrong, you simply missed the Sigil of Accuracy and the fact that the calculation was meant for 80% crit (and thus a fury boon). The banner mistake came in later.

And you still dont calc with subtracting 1000 from the hero panel value to get your crit chance.

(2073precision-895)/21=56.0952% crit chance + banner of discipline(8.095238%) +spotter (4.761904%)+fury (20%)+ sigil or accuracy(+7%)= 95.9523% crit chance.

Which banner mistake?, its either youre warrior which have the trait or not or its youre an another class for example guardian and then you cant get the trait ''Inspiring Battle Standard''

And here from 1 year ago when we would want 2255: https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/5vtbpk/lets_talk_about_max_crit_chance/de4ul93/

but now Spotter dont give 150 longer its instead 100, So we want to have 2305 (with Spotter) or 2405 (without Spotter).

A full ascended set of Berserker items is equal to 961 Precision (dual wield) or 960 Precision (two-handed).

To ez see how much extra you need we subtract from 2995:

You can subtract the following values in general:

1000 base Precision at level 80

20% Critical Chance from Fury (= 420 Precision)

170 Precision from Banner of Discipline

In groups with a Druid: 100 Precision from Spotter

Which brings it down to 1405 Precision or 1305 Precision required (with Spotter).

So 1405 (without Spotter) or 1305 (with Spotter) + 1000 base= 2305 Precision/67.14%

“The more you know, the more you know you don't know.”-Aristotle

I can calculate how ever I want, if I account for the 5% crit chance when subtracting 1,000 precision. Which I did.

This also makes way more sense since it is the base value at 80 and one can not go below it.

Not when you shall calc

“The more you know, the more you know you don't know.”-Aristotle

Good catch! Haven't used the trait since it's rework, so updated the original post to reflect how it only affects warrior

As for your choice of food, the last thing you want to use it for (this also goes for runes and infusions) is precision. This is simple because power give you the most value (direct) damage increase, precision comes second (more extra damage) and ferocity third (extra damage on that extra damage). So if you cap out on crit chance, which you should by only using gear/traits/skills, then power and ferocity food will pay off tenfold compared to precision food, this also apply to infusion and runes - which is why rune of the Scholar and power infusions are so important for max dps (no precision).

Your math isn't wrong, but there are 2 things that keep messing it up:

As for sigil of impact:

Lets assume a regular ascended 961 ferocity. This gives 961/15=64%+150%(base crit damage at lvl 80)=214%. Now assume we cap at 90% crit chance because we want this sigil instead. Now let's take a random number, lets say 100 damage each hit that doesn't crit. If it crits it's 100x2,14=214. With this precision it is bound to crit 9/10 times.

This gives us (9x214)+100 = 2026 total damage. Let's pretend he is constantly stunned here, so 2026x1,1= 2228,6 total damage with the sigil.

Now what happens if we cap at 100% crit chance instead? Now it's (10*214) = 2114 total damage. So in a way you are right. The problem here lies in how often we can benefit from the sigil. But we can't when the bar goes dowm or up, or when it's immune leaving a 5 sec window every 15 secs (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Defiance_bar), giving an efficacy of 5/15=0,33x100=33%. So those 10% become 3,3% in consistent damage. Then we get the realistic value, which is 2026x1,033 ~ 2093 total damage done. Consistently critting will always pay more than situational damage increases, the longer the interval the bigger the advantage.

Now you are just being stubborn for the sake of it.

It makes no difference if I calculate:

A.) 895 precision and then add 105 precision to achieve the base value of 1,000

or

B.) with 1,000 precision and factor in the already 5% crit since I can not go below 1,000 precision no matter how hard I try

unless you don't understand this basic math.

yes i do, ask any player in the top guild (MnF/SC etc) then will tell you the same , and wiki states it too

ps, yes i know base at lvl 80 is 5% but when calc you dont remove 1000prec from the value, you remove 895 then devide by how much you gain per percent which is 21.

“The more you know, the more you know you don't know.”-Aristotle

Or you subtract 1,000 and calculate for 95% crit.

The wiki states no such thing, it states that 895 is 0% and at 1,000 you have automatically 5%. That's what it states, nothing more, nothing less. Do what you want with this information.

double post

yes it does- https://imgur.com/a/x5QlOUF and https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/8ivx05/weekly_rguildwars2_question_thread_may_12_2018/dz6e39i/ ( TheRealC [ChrOhNo] come up to the same number as me 2305

“The more you know, the more you know you don't know.”-Aristotle

You're kind of calculating two different things to arrive at the same result. You're calculating a target number of precision, including the base. @Cyninja.2954 is going the other route, by calculating "I want X crit chance from added precision, how much precision is that?"

Answering either the question "What precision do I need to reach to have 80% crit" or "How much precision do I need from gear etc to add +75% crit" will end up at the same point - 80% crit chance.

Good job, now read what it says right after the equation in the wiki which you were refering to which is more comprehensive in explaining the situation:

Let me bolden the significant part for you:

In other words, Critical Chance is 0% when Precision is 895, and increases by 1% for every 21 Precision above that. Since the minimum value of Precision at level 80 is 1000, this means the minimum Critical Chance at level 80 is 5.0%.and again the exact part which is of relevance:

Since the minimum value of Precision at level 80 is 1000, this means the minimum Critical Chance at level 80 is 5.0%.Unless you are incapable of solving simple rules of proportion or for basic functions, either way works. It actually makes more sense to solve for -1,000 precision because that is a value forced on you where 895 precision is a pre change value which is unattainable currently in game. So in your case, you will always have to account for the 105 extra precision, while in the other calculation you always have to account for the 5% base crit chance always there.

Either calculation works depending on what you are calculating for, and once again, this entire debate started with you just being careless and calling someone out on being wrong on his math even though he was right simply because you could not bother to realize that the calculation was not to reach 100% crit and contained Superior Sigil of Accuracy. Let me do the math for you:

2995 precision - 147 precision (Superior Sigil of Accuracy = 7% crit) - 420 precision (fury boon = 20% crit) = 2428 precision needed to reach 100% crit.Exactly as rng had said and which you decided to criticize because you were to lazy to read what was actually said. No one ever disputed that 2995 precision is needed to reach 100% crit, you simple did not do due diligence in reading and comprehending what others had written.

you didnt event read the reddit page, so your equal ''lazy'', edit your calc: 2995 precision - 147 precision (Superior Sigil of Accuracy = 7% crit) - 420 precision (fury boon = 20% crit) + Spotter (100)+ banner of discipline (170)= 2158 precision needed to reach 100% crit.

My math was for reach the amount of precision you need

before100% crit chance not when.“The more you know, the more you know you don't know.”-Aristotle

Am I the only one here that's worried about how 895 precision is subtracted (assuming lower than lvl 80 character) and the remaining 105 at lvl 80 is never added after that? That's 5% completely missing from the calculation.

So if we choose to subtract 895 instead of 1000, the desired value will then be 95% crit chance (because at lvl 80 it will be 100% in effect).