[Suggestion] Racial Elite specs

Now when this topic comes up it is normally shunned and often screamed at, people get upset and then say its a dumb Idea but hear me out because this might be a good and Inevitable thing to come. The Guardian had its tomes removed sometime ago and only saw a resurgence of them when the Firebrand returned to the game, and they were brought back and made into a wonderful experience. The Firebrand is AMAZINGLY fun and offers some really unique and cool feels to its game-play, and to its lore implications as well. Which is fun to see and witness. Why not do the same thing to the racial skills? Remove them COMPLETELY and only have them return in the form of their own spec's and or making the decisions you make when making your character have some correlation to it? The issue of leveling Alts is not here anymore with tomes, and free/purchasable level 80 scrolls. So there is no reason as to why we cant have this happen.

• For Example Remove the Norn eliet skills and have them return as a Racial eliet spec, The Havroun which is a shaman of high standing in their society and often considered to potentially be the ruling body of that specific animal spirits lodge.(Snow leopard gets stealth and burst dps, Raven is condi, Wolf is a buff bot and team support, Bear is tanky)

• Charr could become a Tribune of sorts, offered the rank due to their deeds in the world and their prestige and have their racial skills removed and brought back as a proper spec.( Ash is a stealthy burst, Blood is a condi/power, and Iron gives you benefits to your arsenal and tools.)

• Asuran could become a high standing member of the colleges and get skills based on which one they choose. ( golems, Drones and much much more )

• Sylvari could actually become a Wild Hunt Valiant and have their skills in this spec Reflect this, having their racial skills be removed and brought up along with the other races to be beneficial and offer a different style of play.( With the time of day they were born under, effecting the type of character they would become or making it a choice similar to the others where you the player decide what variant you want.)

• Humans Could become a member of one of the Six god's temples, and get unique skills based on their particular choice. (Grenth gets minions , Balth Gets burning, Dwayna and melandru are healing based utilities, and kormir gets to be a buff bot, with lyssa getting a shutdown build.)

Now bringing these in SHOULD NOT take the space of an eliet spec, but rather the top Trait-line slot so that way you can be a Renegade Tribune and use all those together regardless of whether or not your a base Revenant(or whatever class you choose). In the lore and even in game ANYONE can be one of these or become one of these respectively, so offering this up as a potential epic addition to our arsenal and offering something NEW for the next expansion. This also makes every character unique and makes them feel different while fundamentally being the same. So you get some sense of "Im a charr not a human" , its not benefiting races for better roles or potential better stats( all other mmo's out there) but it is making them different to one another. It allows us to see how a norn warrior might tackle things differently than a human, or a sylvari. Or how a Charr might handle their dealings as a thief when compared to a human, or a asuran but does not take away from the other options. It also could make your choices important when you start the game and make your character, which could offer a replay-ability which at this point seems lacking. Why make a norn when you can be a human? Fundamentally they are the same thing with one having tattoos and a different voice actor not really offering anything to the contrary, this could easily fix that issue.

The Racial specs are usable alongside the Eliet spec's, They don't take anything away from you and wont hurt you in any way but offer a new way to play as well offer more tools for you to use. The revenant though might seem like its own race because it distinctly lacks racial abilities so I feel they might need something entirely their own to justify them getting something, but you could totally put the racial spec in if you could find a way to make it work. ( revenants could just Get the Razah legend which simply makes them loose the ability to switch legends? Making them have more utilities than the previous expansions? Or the ability to choose between a couple?) Revenants fall under a weird place which is hard to view how they could benefit from this as they cant change utilities really, perhaps this is what could allow them to pick different skills while being in their respective legends?

All In all this needs to happen, It needs to happen before they even look at adding a new race so that the new race feels different to the previous ones outside of a mere cosmetic alone. This wont hurt the game, and as someone who wants a new race I cant help but feel the old ones need a way to be truly distinguished among one another. Something that makes them feel, and act different than the others. This is Akin to a secondary profession, and offering that a homage of sorts as it was a big part of guild wars 1 and while it might not fit here this could be its spiritual successor. On top of that I cant think of very many games that could pull this off, or have things similar to it as the Norn would effectively be lycanthropes ( this should not have a time limit, you choose when you transform and you stay in that form until toggled off similar to the soulbeast.) Which really only has one game that offers that type of character, being ESO who does not do it all that well compared to what most people wanted. The charr would be like cheap fighting warriors or casters who are not afraid to pull dirty tricks to win, which is something they are known for (aka Hidden pistol). Humans would have their respective avatars ( like the guild wars 1 dervish) that could be toggled on or off, offering unique skills based on their theme. Sylvari could have various plant based skills, maybe even being offered a little mini oak-heart who follows them around for support? Asuran could have golems who follow them as minions, or even the ability to toggle on and offer their golem battle suit(like Taimi and Scruffy).

This could offer alot of fun to the franchise, and could offer players and Incentive to buy more character slots and level 80 boosters... Plus the mix match with the eliet specs? That would add alot of spicy little mixes into the current game. Im pretty sure that everyone would end up having one of every race as every profession, maybe even duplicates to make for example a Balthazar blessed warrior, or a grenth based warrior and see how they change the play-style and feel different from one another. You essentially have just added A pluthra of new class's and class combinations to the game. This alone could make the next expansion out do both HoT and PoF as it add's something that is completely unique to guild wars 2, and something that could shake the foundations of what we currently know of this game and Mmorpgs as a whole. ( Which was guild wars 2's original motif, They wanted to revolutionize the market and this could very well do just that.) Think of it this way, each race feels and acts differently they are living breathing beings in this universe, their culture and up-bringing would reflect how they handle combat. This adds clarity and depth to the races, while not making it so one race is above the others thus giving us a completely unique experience that other games have yet to offer.

Has to be weaker than a normal build though. Anet is against racism.

I dont think that it needs to happen, but could see it work with a lot of effort. Probably would be better as an elite spec though in order to minimize OP interactions with the, generally, superior existing elite specs.

It does need to happen, and it needs to be on par with normal builds. Its not racism, its allowing these fantasy races to live up to their lore and having more than one of each class worth it. Because at this point it really is not.

Racials will never and should never be on par with normal builds, as it pushes people to play a certain race-profession combination that they might not like. Let's not become World of Warcraft where humans were absolutely required for PvP for 5 years.

By the way, it's "elite" not "eliet".

@Thornwolf.9721 said:It does need to happen, and it needs to be on par with normal builds. Its not racism, its allowing these fantasy races to live up to their lore and having more than one of each class worth it. Because at this point it really is not.

There is a huge difference between something needing to happen and something one wants to happen. The game has done just fine for five years without your proposal. That is a fairly solid indication that this is a want, not a need.

On par with normal buds does not mean access to an exclusive spec in addition to an elite spec. All post launch spec lines are mutually exclusive with each other. What you suggest would be the opposite of a normal build.

Again, I think racial specs could be made to work, but I think that they should probably follow the pattern set wherein unique thematic specs go in the elite spec slot.

@Rika.7249 said:Racials will never and should never be on par with normal builds, as it pushes people to play a certain race-profession combination that they might not like. Let's not become World of Warcraft where humans were absolutely required for PvP for 5 years.

By the way, it's "elite" not "eliet".

If you actually went through and read it, you would see I said it does NOT take anything away from the class/race combo just offers differing ways to play. It should happen as all it does is give each race their LORE based abilities that most champions and warriors/heroes would have, The humans have their gods and the norn have their animal spirits. The charr rely on cheeky tenacity, and the asuran rely on their brains while the sylvari rely on their code of conduct and their beliefs.

This by no means will make any one build better than the other, its just an alternative way to play and is not REQUIRED much like a regular eliet spec but its special to your race. Which validates the existence of anything outside human and sylvari.

cant we just play the game they took two years to redevelop?

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Thornwolf.9721 said:It does need to happen, and it needs to be on par with normal builds. Its not racism, its allowing these fantasy races to live up to their lore and having more than one of each class worth it. Because at this point it really is not.

That too is fine, just offer something for the races so that those of us who enjoy their lore and bought the game for what the races could offer have it. I want to be a shapeshifter, thats what I wanted to be when I made my norn. Sadly I cant be that because they said "We dont want you to have anything cool exclusive to you" when most people have Alt's in each race anyhow.

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@Rika.7249 said:Racials will never and should never be on par with normal builds, as it pushes people to play a certain race-profession combination that they might not like. Let's not become World of Warcraft where humans were absolutely required for PvP for 5 years.

By the way, it's "elite" not "eliet".

I did read it, and I didn't mention anything about taking anything away from the class/race combo. It's about one race being superior to another, which there always will be. There's a reason most MMOs are getting rid of racial abilities, or at least keep them toned down - it's because nobody wants to be forced to play an Asura Elementalist who can use a robot-suit because it provides more DPS than a Human Elementalist who can summon wolves from Balthazar. Neither of them should be at an advantage for picking their race.

Arenanet have a difficult enough time just balancing the game around 9 professions - needing to balance for certain racial abilities that are "on-par" with normal abilities would make it an even bigger nightmare. There are already racial abilities that "feel" like something the race would do - and they are rightfully underpowered.Adding a racial spec would be terrifying to balance.

It doesn't need to happen and goes against the fundamental design intents of the racial skills, they're there for flavour and that's all.

ArenaNet do not want a situation where any race is better at a profession than the others. Not to mention the headaches from trying to balance 5 racial elites with 45 other traitlines and hundreds of skills.

@Rika.7249 said:

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@Rika.7249 said:Racials will never and should never be on par with normal builds, as it pushes people to play a certain race-profession combination that they might not like. Let's not become World of Warcraft where humans were absolutely required for PvP for 5 years.

By the way, it's "elite" not "eliet".

Then only make humans playable, offer us all a race change because the validation for playing anything outside of a human/sylvari is not there. In most cases the other three races look horrible in the armor as its not made for them, Im not saying "Skills" im saying full fledged specs that ANYONE of the race can use. They would have to be tuned like a normal eliet specs so they would all be strong in "Different" Areas. Example: The human racial spec might be good for raiding, but craptastic at pvp where as the asuran golem might be good in pvp but not in raiding? They already did this with this expansion. Spellbreaker is a pvp built elite spec with pvp and wvw in mind and not raiding once so ever.

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@Rika.7249 said:

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@Rika.7249 said:Racials will never and should never be on par with normal builds, as it pushes people to play a certain race-profession combination that they might not like. Let's not become World of Warcraft where humans were absolutely required for PvP for 5 years.

By the way, it's "elite" not "eliet".

You really don't see an issue with my Human Thief being unable to compete because your Charr Thief happens to be a charr?Races were and will always be a 100% cosmetic choice. And no - they shouldn't make only humans playable. I like my big cat. I also like having in-game balance. Luckily I can have both, and I won't have to regret choosing a big cat because a gnome engineer would've been better for raiding.

@Pifil.5193 said:It doesn't need to happen and goes against the fundamental design intents of the racial skills, they're there for flavour and that's all.

ArenaNet do not want a situation where any race is better at a profession than the others. Not to mention the headaches from trying to balance 5 racial elites with 45 other traitlines and hundreds of skills.

mounts goes against the fundamental nature of guild wars 2 as a whole and the franchise, we had waypoints but they still did it? So there is no reason they cant make this work. The eliet specs function similarly, You will never see a spellbreaker in raiding but you will see a scourage as the spellbreaker was built for pvp which they even came out and flat out said. "Some of the eliet specs are built more for pvp than pve", what your afraid of is already happening and has happened for sometime now all im asking for is for each race to have something special for them and those who play them.

It is not increased stats, it is simply a build you can run that can even take the place of your eliet spec as your eliet spec but only your race can use this spec. Only a charr can be a legionnaire, and only a norn can be a havroun... they are not required but optional terms of play.

Dear OP you are not ever going to get racial skills (ones that matter anyway) and abilities or be able to create builds based on racials.

@Rika.7249 said:

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@Rika.7249 said:

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@Rika.7249 said:Racials will never and should never be on par with normal builds, as it pushes people to play a certain race-profession combination that they might not like. Let's not become World of Warcraft where humans were absolutely required for PvP for 5 years.

By the way, it's "elite" not "eliet".

The charr wont be better it merely would have different utlities in its Racial "Eliet Spec" just like there is a difference between deadeye and Daredevil? Its not different just that the skills function a bit differently for the same result? So the skills look different and might offer something a tiny bit different, but in the end its the same result... And besides I dont think it would overpower daredevil which is still an option for you to use? So with the eliet specs being racially based all we get are those skills being utilized properly and effectively and allowing them be used in all game modes and having them reworked to be a "Option"

It is not increased stats, it is simply a build you can run that can even take the place of your eliet spec as your eliet spec but only your race can use this spec. Only a charr can be a legionnaire, and only a norn can be a havroun... they are not required but optional terms of play.

You can NEVER guarantee this. Ever. Unless you purposefully keep them underpowered, someone somewhere is going to scream because their full asura-account can't raid anymore due to charrs being the best raiders.

The charr wont be better it merely would have different utlities in its Racial "Eliet Spec" just like there is a difference between deadeye and Daredevil? Its not different just that the skills function a bit differently for the same result? So the skills look different and might offer something a tiny bit different, but in the end its the same result... And besides I dont think it would overpower daredevil which is still an option for you to use? So with the eliet specs being racially based all we get are those skills being utilized properly and effectively and allowing them be used in all game modes and having them reworked to be a "Option"

Which brings us back to the impossibility of balancing it. If at any point, one race becomes better at something than another, there's a problem. Yes, there's a difference between Deadeye and Daredevil - one is terrible and will never be used, and the other is required to play power. Now imagine if suddenly I found out that Charr thieves were able to play Deadeyes to the point of competing (perfect balance can NEVER exist), I'd have to remake a thief into a race I don't want to play to compete.

@setdog.1592 said:Dear OP you are not ever going to get racial skills and abilities or be able to create builds based on racials.

Then remove the racial skills completely like they did for Rev <3. Then Ill stop, until then im going to bring it up because it is a valid complaint... I bought the game to be a norn shapeshifter which is something I dont have? Yet that was what the norn were in GW1 and are even showcased as IN THEIR STARTING STORY cutscene. So... Cant help but want to be able to do what they are showcased as being capable of.

@Rika.7249 said:

It is not increased stats, it is simply a build you can run that can even take the place of your eliet spec as your eliet spec but only your race can use this spec. Only a charr can be a legionnaire, and only a norn can be a havroun... they are not required but optional terms of play.

make them strong enough to stand up with the other specs, but not stronger than them? So make them capable but like with anything else its how you use those skills, and in what situations that they could and might shine? Its no different then current Specs we get each expansion.

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@Rika.7249 said:

It is not increased stats, it is simply a build you can run that can even take the place of your eliet spec as your eliet spec but only your race can use this spec. Only a charr can be a legionnaire, and only a norn can be a havroun... they are not required but optional terms of play.

Dude, they can't even make the 9 elite specs stand up to each other, have you taken a look at scrapper/necro? Now you're asking them to throw in cross-balance of potentially 27*5 specs?

bought the game to be a shapeshifter

And you can. Swap it in.

@Rika.7249 said:

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@Rika.7249 said:

It is not increased stats, it is simply a build you can run that can even take the place of your eliet spec as your eliet spec but only your race can use this spec. Only a charr can be a legionnaire, and only a norn can be a havroun... they are not required but optional terms of play.

it would be five spec's and they would function like Eliet spec's and take the place of Eliet spec's unless they felt they could make them work alongside our current new specs. Otherwise it would just be racial eliets where you choose which one you want, and IF they even offered us the ability to use it might come out to 20 something specs or they could just give us ALL of them on different F1 - F6 abilties and let us use them alongside some utilities. And the only ones who would need 6 F1 abilities would be the humans so they can fumble through their avatars, Norn would need 4 as would the others really.

This means they would need reworks, and new models but they could still function properly and add in a decent amount of gameplay and besides that they would only need to do this ONCE. Unless they add a new race, which is their choice.

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@Rika.7249 said:

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@Rika.7249 said:

It is not increased stats, it is simply a build you can run that can even take the place of your eliet spec as your eliet spec but only your race can use this spec. Only a charr can be a legionnaire, and only a norn can be a havroun... they are not required but optional terms of play.

Except adding a racial elite (NOT ELIET) would not remove the professions' weapon skills, meaning you're still playing a hybrid class of a thief's weaponry with a charr's utilities. Thus you need to count each spec 5 times, meaning 9*5. And these need to rival the existing 18 other elite specs. If we assume that you can only play baseline classes with a racial elite, that makes 45 possible combinations. 45 specs that they need to balance. Plus the 18. And the 9 if you're just playing baseline. That makes 72 specs that they need to balance. They can't even balance 9.

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@Pifil.5193 said:It doesn't

need

to happen and goes against the fundamental design intents of the racial skills, they're there for flavour and that's all.

ArenaNet do not want a situation where any race is better at a profession than the others. Not to mention the headaches from trying to balance 5 racial elites with 45 other traitlines and hundreds of skills.

Mounts don't go against the fundamental nature of GW2. Waypoints are a fast travel feature, not part of the fundamental nature of GW2. Mounts are another system.

What I was talking about is balancing 5 racial elites with all 9 professions. That will inevitably end up with one of two situations, the first is that where one race becomes the best choice for at least profession, so for example charr could become the best warrior because of their elite spec. The other is that the racial specs are worse than the current options in all races and all professions and no one uses them. So they will either never be used or will be the new meta, neither seems like a good option to me.

@Rika.7249 said:

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@Rika.7249 said:

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@Rika.7249 said:

It is not increased stats, it is simply a build you can run that can even take the place of your eliet spec as your eliet spec but only your race can use this spec. Only a charr can be a legionnaire, and only a norn can be a havroun... they are not required but optional terms of play.

Pretty much. It just offers more utilities and F1-6 abilities and a different way to play, its not fundamentally changing the classes in anyway outside of it being an option of anyone in X race to use X racial Elite which is just something special to them, It functions like an eliet spec but it has some fundamental differences. You dont HAVE to use it but its an option...

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@Rika.7249 said:

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@Rika.7249 said:

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@Rika.7249 said:

It is not increased stats, it is simply a build you can run that can even take the place of your eliet spec as your eliet spec but only your race can use this spec. Only a charr can be a legionnaire, and only a norn can be a havroun... they are not required but optional terms of play.

And unless these specs are going to be competitive, which they can't be for reasons we just discussed, this NEEDS to be added because?They don't. They'll make balancing the game even more difficult unless they're worse by default. You're already able to pick 2 utilities, a heal and an elite ability to use that are RACIAL, and frankly they shouldn't even be here to begin with.