How to fight a Mesmer. Tips and Tricks — Guild Wars 2 Forums

How to fight a Mesmer. Tips and Tricks

brappish.8715brappish.8715 Member ✭✭✭
edited November 9, 2018 in PVP

I've noticed a lot of people struggling to comprehend the mechanics of a Mesmer when confronting one. They usually become discouraged and frustrated and take to the forums to let loose about the class, demanding Nerfs and changes. Feel free to post here if you have anything to add.

Settings
Some people might not have a choice when it comes to settings, but removing the enable same character model setting can be a real disadvantage if you are fighting multiple Mesmers at once. (5v5) You'll notice that there are, not only one Mesmer with his clones up, but multiple other Mesmers with the same character model. It becomes confusing and you're basically spending more time tabbing through or looking for the right target. Turn this off and you'll have at least two different character models to go differentiate between making it a little easier to decipher who to burst down.

Tabbing
Although tabbing is pretty convenient at times If the Mesmer breaks targeting and you need to re-target, try to refrain from using this as much as possible. It'll most likely lose you valuable seconds and end up getting you killed. Keep an eye out and try to position your cursor in a good spot on the screen so that you can grab camera angles and also react to new targets every few seconds.

Selecting the_ real _mesmer
Mesmer clones:
1. They move less often, or rather depending on what weapons they have and their range capabilities, they move with their target. Greatswords illusions won't move as much, as they don't need to because they have range. Whereas, sword illusions have to get to melee range to attack you.
2. The illusion will never use sidestepping/strafe. They always run straight forward and turn according to the position of their target.
3. You'll notice a copious amount of buffs/food/signets on the real Mesmer. Illusions don't share the same buffs as the main Mesmer. You'll be able to see when you select the right or wrong Mesmer when you look at their selected health bar/name.
4. The real Mesmer has a bouncing arrow above their head.

Bursting power
Mesmers are a get in, getting out kinda class/player. We want to drop you quickly and then rotate back to the point we were going to initially. Hop in tele back out, and use deception to play mind games. So in theory (and in practice), you can expect the first few seconds of an engagement to be either a stealth or an opening burst. So get ready to block, Dodge, CC, invis, teleport, burst back or sustain however you can to avoid getting burst down. After that first burst, the power mes has used:

(NOT IN THIS ORDER)1. mind wrack 2.(usually) blink 3.power spike 4.power lock 5. mirror blade 6.mind stab 7. Phantasmal Berserker 8.The prestige

Commonly, more times than not, I'd say the Mesmer is in defense mode assuming-> He/she has either successfully burst you to downstate, or you were smart enough to mitigate or completely avoid being damaged. From here it's up to you to learn who you are playing against. It could be a hesitant player or it could be a player with patience. Either way, you need to feel it out. Watch for its defensive capabilities. If they're running both mantras, then you already know they don't have a stealth option now because they're utilities are slotted to mantras and blink and they opened with torch 4 invis, assuming they're not specd to mass invisibility. If they didn't open with torch 4, then you can expect a three-second stealth. The other big defense is our dodging (everyone has this) and our distortion and mirage mirrors. Pressure us hard with CC, conditions or bursts, and get ready to switch back to defense.
Don't be afraid to break line of sight with us either, this is super handy for our opening strikes. Even being behind the smallest formations can break our line of sight and we can miss one of our sword skills giving you the upper hand.
There's plenty more to add to this but I'm sure you can figure it out by practicing.

Condition
Honestly, I'm not even sure if some Mesmers understand the concept of the meta build right now and play it as just spam Axe 2-3 and shatter life away. Perhaps I'm wrong. The point of this latest build is to, if I'm not mistaken, stack burn and then cover it with torment and confusion.<---- Use that however you find necessary. Regardless, we need to be close to you to win most of the time. I Find fighting Condi Mesmers the same as fighting a necro. Don't standpoint with them.... stay back, stay mobile and kite the best you can. Condi Mes is powerful, in this era of GW, I think it's safe to say everyone should expect to have Condi removal on their bars somewhere or in their builds.
Fighting a Condi Mes is timing, almost comparable to a thief with a lot of evades. Watch the animations and wait for the appropriate time to attack.

that's all for now until I can think of more things to make it easier for others. Feel free to add to the list. Don't nerf classes...learn to overcome them. It'll make you a force to be messed with.

Overpowered.

Comments

  • As a mesmer main i would say what reliably brings me down: my own mistake. Short of that, i am so sorry, nothing else is working.
    Also, move this thread to PVP.

  • Apokriphos.7042Apokriphos.7042 Member ✭✭
    edited November 9, 2018

    Mesmer combat pressure literally doubled with the "rework" that make phantasms and clones unique.
    Cleaving the clones can work, but a mesmer build for stealth or evades will focus you while continually putting out more, turning it into a one sided match of attrition, if they don't burst you outright at the start.

    Mesmers need to be heavily nerfed in all game modes.

    However, there isn't any balance to speak of, so if you can't beat one, play one.

  • Vieux P.1238Vieux P.1238 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 9, 2018

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Best advice? Play one yourself and get to understand the class.

    No amount of well meant explanations will help bad players overcome a class they do not understand.

    Good players, they've already done what I recommended.

    You are asking to much from complainers...

    Winter Nerf is coming!

  • @brappish.8715 said:

    Fighting a Condi Mes is timing, almost comparable to a thief with a lot of evades. Watch the animations and wait for the appropriate time to attack.

    except half or more than half of condi mes' burst have no animation because they are instant cast. Everytime i fight one it's always random guess dodging. Sometimes they do axe 3 or axe 2, which i dodge because it has clear animation, then immediately shatter afterwards so i have to double dodge, but sometimes they dont and i either end up wasting my 2nd dodge or they land a burst on me because i didnt dodge. Other times (this happen quite often), it will be me chasing after them, and they can suddenly burst me with their shatter while running away and have their backs faced towards me so i have to randomly dodge into them again just to chase them. Instant cast bursts from condi mes are bs.

  • NorthernRedStar.3054NorthernRedStar.3054 Member ✭✭
    edited November 10, 2018

    Fighting a mesmer depends a lot on whether you have the setup and class to apply sufficient counter-pressure. Playing with thief compared to, say, warrior; makes tons of difference.

    I'd recommend trying the class for yourself to see the cooldowns and effects of each ability, also to see the timing of dodge for illusion breaks. Generally speaking, however, if a competent mesmer is holding a node you're extremely unlikely to (de-)cap it from them.

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @LazySummer.2568 said:

    @brappish.8715 said:

    Fighting a Condi Mes is timing, almost comparable to a thief with a lot of evades. Watch the animations and wait for the appropriate time to attack.

    except half or more than half of condi mes' burst have no animation because they are instant cast. Everytime i fight one it's always random guess dodging. Sometimes they do axe 3 or axe 2, which i dodge because it has clear animation, then immediately shatter afterwards so i have to double dodge, but sometimes they dont and i either end up wasting my 2nd dodge or they land a burst on me because i didnt dodge. Other times (this happen quite often), it will be me chasing after them, and they can suddenly burst me with their shatter while running away and have their backs faced towards me so i have to randomly dodge into them again just to chase them. Instant cast bursts from condi mes are bs.

    In general, it's usually pretty obvious when a mesmer is going to use one of their damaging shatters since they're going to do it while their clones are surrounding you and they have 2-3 of them.

    The torch skills are pretty important to avoid but both have very obvious tells.

    It's important to avoid the pistol phantasm but it can be both line of sighted, reflected, and it's attack is a longer channel so you have a lot of opportunity to avoid the whole thing.

    Axe 3 also has an obvious tell, but breaking targeting definitely hurts with this skill.

    There is a large mount of chip damage that is instant cast, such as jaunt. But like I said, it's chip damage. not bursts.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion.

  • @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @LazySummer.2568 said:

    @brappish.8715 said:

    Fighting a Condi Mes is timing, almost comparable to a thief with a lot of evades. Watch the animations and wait for the appropriate time to attack.

    except half or more than half of condi mes' burst have no animation because they are instant cast. Everytime i fight one it's always random guess dodging. Sometimes they do axe 3 or axe 2, which i dodge because it has clear animation, then immediately shatter afterwards so i have to double dodge, but sometimes they dont and i either end up wasting my 2nd dodge or they land a burst on me because i didnt dodge. Other times (this happen quite often), it will be me chasing after them, and they can suddenly burst me with their shatter while running away and have their backs faced towards me so i have to randomly dodge into them again just to chase them. Instant cast bursts from condi mes are bs.

    In general, it's usually pretty obvious when a mesmer is going to use one of their damaging shatters since they're going to do it while their clones are surrounding you and they have 2-3 of them.

    i mean, as long as shatters are instant cast, it's still ultimately guessing because nothing is preventing them from not using it when clones dont expire on their own after a certain time. they can, for example, easily bait u with axe 2 first before shattering or just run around with weapon stowed then suddenly jaunt onto you with a shatter. There's nothing obvious about instant cast abilities

  • Sampson.2403Sampson.2403 Member ✭✭✭

    The biggest BS class out there is thief with the evade and teleport spam

  • whoknocks.4935whoknocks.4935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @LazySummer.2568 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @LazySummer.2568 said:

    @brappish.8715 said:

    Fighting a Condi Mes is timing, almost comparable to a thief with a lot of evades. Watch the animations and wait for the appropriate time to attack.

    except half or more than half of condi mes' burst have no animation because they are instant cast. Everytime i fight one it's always random guess dodging. Sometimes they do axe 3 or axe 2, which i dodge because it has clear animation, then immediately shatter afterwards so i have to double dodge, but sometimes they dont and i either end up wasting my 2nd dodge or they land a burst on me because i didnt dodge. Other times (this happen quite often), it will be me chasing after them, and they can suddenly burst me with their shatter while running away and have their backs faced towards me so i have to randomly dodge into them again just to chase them. Instant cast bursts from condi mes are bs.

    In general, it's usually pretty obvious when a mesmer is going to use one of their damaging shatters since they're going to do it while their clones are surrounding you and they have 2-3 of them.

    i mean, as long as shatters are instant cast, it's still ultimately guessing because nothing is preventing them from not using it when clones dont expire on their own after a certain time. they can, for example, easily bait u with axe 2 first before shattering or just run around with weapon stowed then suddenly jaunt onto you with a shatter. There's nothing obvious about instant cast abilities

    If you far enough from the clones the shatter won't work and fail, you will see the clones coming to you and that's easy to dodge, it's same as scourge, melee range is where the big burst and damage comes from, axe torch set is a melee range set, plus the shatter works if you are near them.
    They are insta cast but when the screen is flood with clones you must expect an incoming shatter, and the big damage don't even comes from shatter, F2 just apply some extra confusion which vanish pretty fast, the big burst comes from axe/torch set and autos especially if using IH so clones do ambush as well.

    You must learn to stow weapon for few seconds when you got confusion on, you can't unload and spam all your skills like fighting a scourge because you need to get rid of its barrier, if you use a spammy playstyle you get punished hard, same as spamming against spellbreaker full counter, it's a profession which punishes noobs at his best.

    The only profession which can use a kinda spammy playstyle and win against condi mirage is holosmith, easy to get rid of clones with photon forge, he denies stealth and big damage even from autos cleave the mesmer away.

    Except revenant which is hard countered by condi mirage, all the other meta builds holds and counter mirage back pretty good, holos, spellbreaker, boonbeast, thieves, core guards.

  • MyPuppy.8970MyPuppy.8970 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Nice, i never thought of disabling standard ennemy model. If only it was available only for asuras...

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 10, 2018

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Best advice? Play one yourself and get to understand the class.

    No amount of well meant explanations will help bad players overcome a class they do not understand.

    Good players, they've already done what I recommended.

    ^ This.
    Whoknocks who posted in this thread did this and his opinion is not the same anymore. So follow his example.

    Dodge when the mirage and clones jump on you (axe 3), a shatter is coming.
    Cleave clones when possible.
    When the mesmer disappears, count to 3 and dodge or dodge when you see a flying gs coming at you.
    If you're a spb use clones for a free fc.

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Best advice? Play one yourself and get to understand the class.

    No amount of well meant explanations will help bad players overcome a class they do not understand.

    Good players, they've already done what I recommended.

    ^ This.
    Whoknocks who posted in this thread did this and his opinion is not the same anymore. So follow his example.

    Dodge when the mirage and clones jump on you (axe 3), a shatter is coming.
    Cleave clones when possible.
    When the mesmer disappears, count to 3 and dodge or dodge when you see a flying gs coming at you.
    If you're a spb use clones for a free fc.

    If that's true it's good to see some people really do try to walk a mile in the other classes shoes to understand it better, rather than screaming loudly "it's so broken" and asking ANet devs to nerf it even more when it shouldn't beat any 1v1 currently.

    Another good tip is to wander around at the ready up part and see what your enemy is running, if mesmer is greatsword or sword they're usually power, staff or axe is usually condition. There's some running weird builds but those are generally niche and reliant on certain traits or interrupts, stab up, cleave and kill.

  • Learn to kite clones. They have npc pathing so they are rather easy to avoid.

  • @Sampson.2403 said:
    The biggest BS class out there is thief with the evade and teleport spam

    Unhindered Combatant, the trait I assume you're complaining about, applies exhaust on you after cleansing a condition so reckless evade spam will lead to you being out of endurance in no time; either forcing you to use initiative to escape, or blowing your heal skill for the endurance regen.

    Thief has no such thing as 'teleport spam'. Shadowstep's on a massive cooldown, and SB 5 has a cast + travel time, on top of a massive initiative cost.

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 11, 2018

    Do you have any advice on how to fight Mesmers who spam detargetting abilities combined with clone spam that only leaves name plates visible?

    Theres a Mesmer I struggle with who does this, "I am beta Mes" or a name something like that, same goes for a dude nhififel or something, I struggle against those 2 with thier playstyles lol

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    PvP forum members must be making a new football oval judging by the way they move the goalposts of every post.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion

  • Sampson.2403Sampson.2403 Member ✭✭✭

    @NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

    @Sampson.2403 said:
    The biggest BS class out there is thief with the evade and teleport spam

    Unhindered Combatant, the trait I assume you're complaining about, applies exhaust on you after cleansing a condition so reckless evade spam will lead to you being out of endurance in no time; either forcing you to use initiative to escape, or blowing your heal skill for the endurance regen.

    Thief has no such thing as 'teleport spam'. Shadowstep's on a massive cooldown, and SB 5 has a cast + travel time, on top of a massive initiative cost.

    Nah talking about the daredevils who can dance in a circle evading everything and port back n forth with their sword and shadowstep.

  • Crab Fear.1624Crab Fear.1624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sampson.2403 said:

    @NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

    @Sampson.2403 said:
    The biggest BS class out there is thief with the evade and teleport spam

    Unhindered Combatant, the trait I assume you're complaining about, applies exhaust on you after cleansing a condition so reckless evade spam will lead to you being out of endurance in no time; either forcing you to use initiative to escape, or blowing your heal skill for the endurance regen.

    Thief has no such thing as 'teleport spam'. Shadowstep's on a massive cooldown, and SB 5 has a cast + travel time, on top of a massive initiative cost.

    Nah talking about the daredevils who can dance in a circle evading everything and port back n forth with their sword and shadowstep

    low damage and health...what more do you want bad ele?

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @sephiroth.4217 said:
    Do you have any advice on how to fight Mesmers who spam detargetting abilities combined with clone spam that only leaves name plates visible?

    Theres a Mesmer I struggle with who does this, "I am beta Mes" or a name something like that, same goes for a dude nhififel or something, I struggle against those 2 with thier playstyles lol

    Depends on your class tbh, if you have lots of cleave then kill the clones all over, if you're single target only it'll be harder and you'll want to get a good alpha strike on them to put them on the defensive. Don't be afraid to back off, get a better view and find the mesmer out of the clones.

    You also have to pay attention to which detarget they use, illusionary ambush is an evade and so is the axes of symmetry are evades so no point trying to attack or counter immediately but with some AoE cleave you can destroy most of the clones. If they use stealth you can follow the normal advice for stealth which is keep attacking the area (so long as you don't have too much confusion) to find out where they go and do some extra damage.

    If they don't have sword take the time to kite a bit or back off as they won't be able to chase as well as with sword.

  • Chilli.2976Chilli.2976 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Don't spam all your skills within the first 2 seconds of the fight.

    twitch.tv/chillichur

  • @Crab Fear.1624 said:

    @Sampson.2403 said:

    @NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

    @Sampson.2403 said:
    The biggest BS class out there is thief with the evade and teleport spam

    Unhindered Combatant, the trait I assume you're complaining about, applies exhaust on you after cleansing a condition so reckless evade spam will lead to you being out of endurance in no time; either forcing you to use initiative to escape, or blowing your heal skill for the endurance regen.

    Thief has no such thing as 'teleport spam'. Shadowstep's on a massive cooldown, and SB 5 has a cast + travel time, on top of a massive initiative cost.

    Nah talking about the daredevils who can dance in a circle evading everything and port back n forth with their sword and shadowstep

    low damage and health...what more do you want bad ele?

    Is this some sort of new meme, saying thieves have low damage?
    Well if you compare sword with oneshot dj/backstab/vault I guess it does "low damage".

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:
    Do you have any advice on how to fight Mesmers who spam detargetting abilities combined with clone spam that only leaves name plates visible?

    Theres a Mesmer I struggle with who does this, "I am beta Mes" or a name something like that, same goes for a dude nhififel or something, I struggle against those 2 with thier playstyles lol

    Depends on your class tbh, if you have lots of cleave then kill the clones all over, if you're single target only it'll be harder and you'll want to get a good alpha strike on them to put them on the defensive. Don't be afraid to back off, get a better view and find the mesmer out of the clones.

    You also have to pay attention to which detarget they use, illusionary ambush is an evade and so is the axes of symmetry are evades so no point trying to attack or counter immediately but with some AoE cleave you can destroy most of the clones. If they use stealth you can follow the normal advice for stealth which is keep attacking the area (so long as you don't have too much confusion) to find out where they go and do some extra damage.

    If they don't have sword take the time to kite a bit or back off as they won't be able to chase as well as with sword.

    I cant see anything but name plates... these 2 players I mentioned are very aggressive players and are probably the only 2 mesmers ive come across that make me struggle...

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    PvP forum members must be making a new football oval judging by the way they move the goalposts of every post.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion

  • Daishi.6027Daishi.6027 Member ✭✭✭

    Evade shatters by reading the positioning of clones around you. Anticipate the common timings and play around it. If you notice them playing around with timings because you react well to them, adjust your perception accordingly to feel for the adjustment. It wont be a free kill, sorry. (A lot of people attribute this to "needing to make a mistake" when this is simply equal opportunity, when people believing they have none.)

    Illusions are resources, cleave them with the mesmer. Be sure they don't have any 'in face' burst options that will shift momentum.

    Disable Auto target, you never want it for PvP it gets in the way. Most of you know some of this but I include for the few of you who don't.

    Enable Promote target. This way you can precast on illusions and switch to the real mesmer even when you do not have him or are trying to find him.
    -have "stow weapon" easily bound, canceling these attacks if you failed to target them can allow you to starve the mesmer of options as you maintain yours.

    Tab targeting is a pain, but there is some priority towards the center of your screen. Turn your camera to aim for the real mesmer.

    Stealth skills are at most 3 seconds, on a 30 - 40 second cooldown respectively. Most people only slot 2 max. Core and Chrono may have Massinvis for elite.

    • use this knowledge to play around stealth and help anticipate burst.

    When heavily pressured get distance to maximize illusion travel time. Best way to mitigate is to roll into them.

    Remember to try and make good cooldown trades.

    If they run in conquest you've won. Usually you wont want to chase. If you spend cooldowns trying and you don't read really well, you'll quickly starve yourself of options that land well, while your opponent is coming off of cooldown.

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:
    Do you have any advice on how to fight Mesmers who spam detargetting abilities combined with clone spam that only leaves name plates visible?

    Theres a Mesmer I struggle with who does this, "I am beta Mes" or a name something like that, same goes for a dude nhififel or something, I struggle against those 2 with thier playstyles lol

    Depends on your class tbh, if you have lots of cleave then kill the clones all over, if you're single target only it'll be harder and you'll want to get a good alpha strike on them to put them on the defensive. Don't be afraid to back off, get a better view and find the mesmer out of the clones.

    You also have to pay attention to which detarget they use, illusionary ambush is an evade and so is the axes of symmetry are evades so no point trying to attack or counter immediately but with some AoE cleave you can destroy most of the clones. If they use stealth you can follow the normal advice for stealth which is keep attacking the area (so long as you don't have too much confusion) to find out where they go and do some extra damage.

    If they don't have sword take the time to kite a bit or back off as they won't be able to chase as well as with sword.

    I cant see anything but name plates... these 2 players I mentioned are very aggressive players and are probably the only 2 mesmers ive come across that make me struggle...

    If they're very aggressive then chances are they will burn all cool downs without a moments thought so use your dodges and defenses when they go ham, bonus if you can attack while using them. Even if we assume they're a bit better than that you know they're going to constantly roll onto the next skill, kite and use AoE damage to kill the clones. Go onto no port spots to mess up axes of symmetry and illusionary ambush. If they're spamming out so many clones and de-targetting abilities you can't keep up ask them, politely, if they'd mind duelling you in a private arena so you can get used to this aggressive play style and help find the real mesmer and read the fight better.

    It really depends on class and build though, if you were spellbreaker I'd say just proc FC off clones as much as you can and get an extra source of resistance. If you were sceptre ele then you shouldn't be in a 1v1, it's a much harder fight for you to win than the mesmer so buy time and go elsewhere. If you're a holo in current meta build just go very aggressive on AoE damage, kite onto no port while out of photon forge.

  • Bigpapasmurf.5623Bigpapasmurf.5623 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Learned mirage (condi) a while back as I was getting condi dead a lot (Mained DrD at that time in PvP and WvW). Learned the mechanics so much, I changed my main to a non meta DPS Mirage build. 1 on 1 my K/D ratio vs condi mirage was in my favor. GS ambush hits multiple targets (ie clones) and its ranged. If you are ranged and at least somewhat mobile, you will have an easier time. Don't go melee unless you

    1.) have a burst/rotation that you know will down or give you an edge if it connects

    or

    2.) You know they have nothing left off CD

    CC's work wonders as do condis (i mean dont condis typically do wonders on 80% of builds lol)

    If you have stealth access and you see a mirage go stealth...count to 2, stealth yourself and move

    Red = Dead...or someone runs away. Either way it's gone.
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