What happens when a Deadeye meets a Deadeye?

It gets unbelievably boring. Worse than if you were another class on the receiving end of a Deadeye.

I watched this streamer on a DE and when he met another DE enemy while roaming, they both did everything to practically remain perma stealth and circled the area waiting for the other to reveal first. 5 mins of perma stealth later, neither knew for sure if the other dude was still hanging around and the streamer decided to leave the area with nothing happening.

As for other classes, It is entirely not fun fighting a class with so much access to re-stealth in combat and range and mobility and ability to remove already very limited reveal tools on other professions.

It was the first time I felt turned off by having to fight another class due to its design. It was just unbelievably boring and sets other players in a passive reactive situation for much of the fight with their extremely limited reveal tools made useless.

Very sorry for my response in advance, I read the title outside and I thought that this is going to be a pun. So I started thinking of an answer:

What happens when a Deadeye meets a Deadeye?They will make two healthy eyes

Sorrrrrrry, I never be the guy that doesn't take serious, but I couldn't help it. I like your post though.

you see killing another player just to kill him is not an objective in WvW.as soon as one deadeye starts providing any impact on the mode, the other might use it to kill them.why do they HAVE to fight each other over nothing? take a sentry , take a camp or a dolyak. if the other deadeye can utilize it its his win, if he cant kill you while you keep doing stuff you win.on my deadeye i killed fire keep lord with an opposing deadeye (allied with the lord) trying to kill me and then when the circle appeared he aswell had to take action and he died. but on openfield without reason i wouldnt bother with him, why would i?

@PrinceKhaled.5104 said:Very sorry for my response in advance, I read the title outside and I thought that this is going to be a pun. So I started thinking of an answer:

What happens when a Deadeye meets a Deadeye?They will make two healthy eyes

Sorrrrrrry, I never be the guy that doesn't take serious, but I couldn't help it. I like your post though.

Actually when a Deadeye meets a Deadeye, both eyes are dead and they become blind. Literally. With all their perma stealth shenigans. Neither can see the other.

That's why I play a tanky acro deadeye that can take a 1 malice backstab from the permastealth build and kite out before they can finish, you need to bait them. Death's judgement is very easy to avoid if you're paying attention, so is keeping track of how much malice he has so you know when to kite out to avoid a hit you can't tank and when to use your stealth so he can't remark so he loses malice. Landing binding shadows at the end of their dodge then bursting when you know their shadowstep is on cooldown is usually a guaranteed kill then, they may be steathed but they're unable to avoid the damage.

Yeah, it's still pretty boring. I've had enemy deadeyes chase me all the way around the map unable to kill me before, I like to think it's annoying them at least.

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:

@"PrinceKhaled.5104" said:Very sorry for my response in advance, I read the title outside and I thought that this is going to be a pun. So I started thinking of an answer:

What happens when a Deadeye meets a Deadeye?They will make two healthy eyes

Sorrrrrrry, I never be the guy that doesn't take serious, but I couldn't help it. I like your post though.

I give the other DE reasons to open up on me by not being in stealth.

I simply choose not to fight Perma Stealth DE's. They can't really chase much...

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:Actually when a Deadeye meets a Deadeye, both eyes are dead and they become blind. Literally. With all their perma stealth shenigans. Neither can see the other.

@"Dawdler.8521" said:When they run out of cooldowns they can just yell "I'm stealthed!" to each other and hope the other fall for it.

lol, touché! This topic is not going as expected here! :D

How do you know two deadeyes are there when no one sees them. The more interesting following question will be: Do they make noises?

@Turk.5460 said:I simply choose not to fight Perma Stealth DE's. They can't really chase much...

great, in a PVP MODE we all decide just not to fight against other PLAYERS. no offense to you, but what you said is the whole Problem of DE. its a class that kills every serious PVP mode, because this class Prevent every pvp Action by design...

@geist.4126 said:How do you know two deadeyes are there when no one sees them. The more interesting following question will be: Do they make noises?

Oh my. We have a philosopher in the house!Great question :o

@geist.4126 said:How do you know two deadeyes are there when no one sees them. The more interesting following question will be: Do they make noises?

yes, the minimum amount of tells during permastealth is 0 visual tells and 1 audio tell, when you use your endurance.but that is only doable while remaining in a limited area. so you will see/hear more of a travelling deadeye. i personally dont permastealth while travelling, i go into stealth only when i expect or see an opponent. this probably cost me a few kills of people teleporting away but the time i would need to permastealth would cost me even more.

@Zero.3871 said:

@Turk.5460 said:I simply choose not to fight Perma Stealth DE's. They can't really chase much...

killing the deadeye is just one way to fight the deadeye in this pvp mode. this is not deaths match.

@Zero.3871 said:

@Turk.5460 said:I simply choose not to fight Perma Stealth DE's. They can't really chase much...

How many different serious pvp modes are there? DE isn't a big factor in pvp modes, if it were, squads would be full of them so how can it kill any mode? That stealth heavy DE is doing something specific that might be a waste of time for someone depending on how they play in this mode, some people bother, some don't. I'll saunter around another DE and see what's up but I won't hang around if I know it will be a waste of time, let them waste theirs.

Oh oh oh give me a chance to post this again!

@Zero.3871 said:

@Turk.5460 said:I simply choose not to fight Perma Stealth DE's. They can't really chase much...

If you feel you must fight every player that crosses your path then that's your prerogative. I main DE, and I feel that the perma-stealth versions of DE are over-tuned directly due to the frequency of stealth access, along with that frequent stealth access being uninterruptible. However, since you don't seem to be suggesting any meaningful change or fix, I decided present a resolution to your problem - don't fight them, you take the wind out of their sails if you just walk away and find a different build to fight, or camp to capture, or sentry to......

well, there is a meaningful way to fix deadeye - and thieves in general. And mesmers.

REMOVE STEALTH FROM THE GAME.

Nothing of worth will be lost.

@Turk.5460 said:I simply choose not to fight Perma Stealth DE's. They can't really chase much...

That's doesn't conform with my experience. Had a situation where a permanently stealthed deadeye was chasing me (soulbeast) for 5+ min, and despite me spamming my leaps i couldn't get away. I was permanently in combat (and marked), that's why i know the thief was always there, even if i couldn't see him. And after several minutes and two failed burst attempts he oneshot me with a Binding Shadow + 21k DJ combo. Fun stuff ... not.

Old ghost thief had much more counterplay than this.

@UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

@Turk.5460 said:I simply choose not to fight Perma Stealth DE's. They can't really chase much...

If you were playing Soulbeast the solution was to turn around and breathe on Mr. 21k. Reveal them and put them on the defensive, if they're forced to back off you don't even have to chase -- you can break combat and leave.

They're annoying, but pretty much any Mirage build (yes, even power) is much much worse. You can't 'unblockable' evasion frames.

~ Kovu

Welcome to why SA thief is and was always a horrible concept, why the stealth sniper idea is terrible/why this outcome was expected and warned about years before it was released, and why I was happy the style of play got nerfed years ago, as a thief player.

We've got the best combat system of any MMO and even the most "interactive" and what's supposed to be the most mechanically-intensive class both can and needs to play passively like something from WoW.

And that's really the saddest truth of all. Everything's just so broken and passive the only way to realistically deal with everyone elses' nonsense (as a direct combatant, not for +1s/ganks) is via DE for the most part.

@UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

@"Turk.5460" said:I simply choose not to fight Perma Stealth DE's. They can't really chase much...

how can you fail to reach a tower/keep/spawn while spamming your leaps for 5 minutes?

most deadeyes can either chase or permastealth and if they doing both, they usually got either assassins signet or binding shadows - not both, reducing their chance greatly to take out a running target. so yeah running is against most a rather safe option.one can build to be able to permastealth + chase and keep both of those offensive utilities, but many dont know how to do that without adding further weaknesses to the build. (further as in only 1 slot for a stunbreak as the 1st weakness). so running is not allways safe, but most likely.

what i found did work well while i was playing my ranger : while running its very hard to apply a backstab so most will try to use deaths judgement, that skill is usually not just easy to dodge but also will miss often by weird 'obstructed' or 'out of range' when shot at a moving target (message depends on the direction you move from the deadeye) so they usually will combine it with binding shadows. now what you can do is use 'protect me!', kind of have to anticipate the first one and then just use off CD as it has the same as binding shadows. then it will interrupt the bindig shadows -> deaths judgement combo (you have to use protect me before you get hit by binding shadows). you might need another stunbreak/stability if you want to utilize that taunt for a counterburst tho.

@"DeceiverX.8361" said:Welcome to why SA thief is and was always a horrible concept, why the stealth sniper idea is terrible/why this outcome was expected and warned about years before it was released, and why I was happy the style of play got nerfed years ago, as a thief player.

We've got the best combat system of any MMO and even the most "interactive" and what's supposed to be the most mechanically-intensive class both can and needs to play passively like something from WoW.

And that's really the saddest truth of all. Everything's just so broken and passive the only way to realistically deal with everyone elses' nonsense (as a direct combatant, not for +1s/ganks) is via DE for the most part.

So much this.

POF elite specs really made combat so un-skilled and un-fun. Not just Deadeyes to be fair.

Take Scourge for example. Mindless spamming of skills off CD the moment you get in range (if you get in range). So much skill, so much wow.

Take Soulbeast for example.Their favorite tactic is to burst you with LB 2, kite with low CD mobility skills when you get close until they opened up the gap again before turning and blasting you with LB 2 again. Rinse and repeat until you're dead. So much skill, so much wow.

Swoop (1200 range leap, 10seconds CD)Hornet Sting (400 range rollback, 8 seconds CD)Monarch's Leap (600 range leap, 8 seconds CD)

2200 range movement on approx. 10 seconds CD.

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:That's why I play a tanky acro deadeye that can take a 1 malice backstab from the permastealth build and kite out before they can finish, you need to bait them. Death's judgement is very easy to avoid if you're paying attention, so is keeping track of how much malice he has so you know when to kite out to avoid a hit you can't tank and when to use your stealth so he can't remark so he loses malice. Landing binding shadows at the end of their dodge then bursting when you know their shadowstep is on cooldown is usually a guaranteed kill then, they may be steathed but they're unable to avoid the damage.

Yeah, it's still pretty boring. I've had enemy deadeyes chase me all the way around the map unable to kill me before, I like to think it's annoying them at least.

I do this too - I like to bait their responses and make myself look vulnerable in order for them to use up utilities and initiative. I don't find it boring because I like to see in general how people are playing it, every now and then you will find a more capable player than the average casual. I think a lot of them seem to concentrate more on their rotations instead of paying attention to enemy actions and are not so reactive because I catch many off guard, mostly because I think the ones I come across are less experienced. If you can bait their bursts/defense that use up initiative you can really mess them up good. 99.9% of the time they will camp rifle.

we had a saying in TF2'when I as a

Quote: @"EremiteAngel.9765" "What happens when a Deadeye meets a Deadeye?"

Maybe they look each other dead in the eye before fighting.