Commanders after losing a fight — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Commanders after losing a fight

RisenHowl.2419RisenHowl.2419 Member ✭✭✭
edited November 12, 2018 in WvW

<1

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  • GDchiaScrub.3241GDchiaScrub.3241 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Queue, but forgiven.

    D:

    RISE guild best guild super RPers trash blob guild [RISE] always dies on inc masters of the Die On Inc technique where Prince Jarvan just died.

    Holy Warriors of [Kazo] following Kazo doctrine guided by, Our Lord and Commander, Zudo in the holy Trinity of Him and his two firm glutes.

  • DanAlcedo.3281DanAlcedo.3281 Member ✭✭✭✭

    And thats why i want to see all allied players on the map as green dots.

    Where the kitten is everybody?!?!???!!

  • Zero.3871Zero.3871 Member ✭✭✭

    @DanAlcedo.3281 said:
    And thats why i want to see all allied players on the map as green dots.

    Where the kitten is everybody?!?!???!!

    I HAVE FOUND THEM!!!! on spawn… Clearing their bank.

  • DanAlcedo.3281DanAlcedo.3281 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @DanAlcedo.3281 said:
    And thats why i want to see all allied players on the map as green dots.

    Where the kitten is everybody?!?!???!!

    Tags up havoc so that the blue commander and everyone else on the border can see where our roaming party is and not pointlessly attack the same objective from two directions

    Commander: "NEED ALL ON TAG kitten JOIN SQUAD OTHER TAG, TAG OFF OR LEAVE BORDER!!!"

    The QQ would be glorious!

  • enkidu.5937enkidu.5937 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 22, 2018

    Not sure why people leave the squad after some losses (or not even join from the start), because they lost? Maybe, but there are only a couple of precious hours during prime time, were most of the big scale action takes place. So, why not try over again? You still can roam the other 22 hours.

    Because the commi is bad, made mistakes? Surely not, casuals are very forgiving, and most commis know what they do.

    I guess its because the commi's rant / bad mood / "let's train movement and big bombs then". Which is ok I guess, from time to time, but prime time is precious, and people want to play during that 2 hours, not school, when most of the WvW action, and big scale fights takes place. Pretty sure they are not even receptive at that time.

    PS: I prefer those commis, that just lead, don't comment, and make a resume or commented fight once every hour, and then continue to play without many comments.

  • subversiontwo.7501subversiontwo.7501 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 24, 2018

    @grave of hearts.7830 said:
    [List]

    Some of the points you raise are well and good.

    Other points you raise sadly show the same disrespect you claim some commanders have but from a PPT perspective.

    Some commanders develop egos, at other times it may be out of frustration of trying to do something for others but not getting the support they need (either verbal or actual). Sometimes they care little for their scouts, other times they are committed to something the scouts do not see or understand. Sometimes commanders dodge competition, sometimes they simply just have to go and are under no obligation to stay tagged. Sometimes they are hopeless with planning, siege and captures and sometimes they are just not as well versed in it as those who spend most of their time with that and could do that themselves without the help of the tag.

    Sometimes they attempt to over-farm bags but to go as far as to say that what they enjoy is pointless shows a rather poor attitude on your end. Sometimes they handle resources poorly, but often times it is not their job to do so (not that it is anyone's job but you really don't need a tag to back-cap or stock camps and towers). There are too many players who attempt to scout or play the defensive game (something I can appreciate) that are just too unorganized to achieve anything on their own. A small group can be extremely effective in defense or havoc-capture if they are good enough at it. Those groups may talk to commanders in mapchat but they do not rely on them enough to complain about them.

    Sometimes commanders make poor estimation of their chances to win, other times they just attempt to create content in uneven scenarios because, newsflash, it's content and there is no option. They don't care enough about winning PPT to sacrifice all other gameplay for it. Sometimes you have to provide bags to some people, some fun whether it's your guys or their guys. Most commanders appreciate other commanders who try to fight uphill battles and go about it best-as. That shows respect for the mode and its players. Content is created between the players not just by one side attempting to win.

    Sometimes they ignore well-thought and well-delivered suggestions but most of the times it is just someone who wants to armchair their content and is unable to manage their own content. The tag is there for himself and with the tag up for his friends, if the tag is blue it may be there for players in general but the tag is never there for you or to cater to your personal needs.

    We see this quite frequently, how eg., roamers (in contrast to the big bad blob) are mentioned on the forums - but players or player-groups who are actually good at roaming, havoc-capture or havocing around commanders - they generally do not complain about commanders. They manage their own fun.

  • @grave of hearts.7830 said:

    @enkidu.5937 said:

    1:Bigger ego than capabilities,verbal abusing everyone.
    2:Ignoring scout calls for reinforcements,and ignoring information about enemy Zerg location.
    3:Bullet dodgeing,aka when they tag down whenever opposition shows up which is basically cowardice and letting everything to burn.
    That alone droves a commanders popularity down fast.
    4:Non existent map awareness,leading into delivering bags to enemy.
    5:Pointless SM headbutting,wasting everyone's time while also delivering bags to enemy.
    6:shameless promotions,tagging for 30 mins to backcap paper and spamming guild recruitment for 2 hours past that.
    7:bad logistics,draining all objectives from supply without going to backcap the camps.
    8:inability to preplan presiege and be at an objective before the enemy arrives to it.
    9:inability to calculate the odds of winning on open field and in close quarters against an organised boonspam+scourge guild Zerg with just pugs.
    1 time you can ignore it,but the 3rd time you just dump the com.
    10:not taking criticism and advice,and not improving.
    11:taking credit for other people work.

    Sounds a lot like Piken commanders and mostly the reason i stopped playing like 6 weeks or so ago.

  • JusticeRetroHunter.7684JusticeRetroHunter.7684 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 24, 2018

    In my experience commanding and following other commanders, the majority of wipes happen because of

    A -Squirreling
    B -180 Retreating
    C -Bad positioning

    When commanders ignore their tail, especially while wandering in enemy territory while under siege, they won’t have enough numbers when engaging the enemy zerg(bad positioning) if you decide to squirrel around in said territory, and not engage and push the other zergs back line, then you’ll get picked off 1 by 1. If you squirrel about and then the enemy decides to push and THEN you 180 retreat, that’s how you wipe.

    This is the reason commanders lose fights most of the time. Sometimes what I see is the Zerg itself not understanding or following a commander who may actually be trying to push or gain a better position, but the Zerg won’t listen, and eventually the Zerg dies because of those three things mentioned above.

    When commanders say “get on tag” you should get on tag...because in most situations when you aren’t pushing on the tag you are just detrimental to the Zerg. If you notice a tag that pushes head on into another Zerg, it’s a sign of a bad commander. Good commanders will always push into the back line by circling around (forcing the enemy Zerg to move so that the tail is more obvious) and push straight into the tail, which usually forces an enemy retreat (which is when they wipe)

    If you notice in guild v guild Zerg battles it’s about 20 minutes of Zerg dance-off to try and get a good position and opportunity to reach into the tail. A good gvg Zerg will move so tightly that no tail will ever be present...which is why they are so deadly.

  • cobbah.3102cobbah.3102 Member ✭✭✭

    Hmm do not forget streaming commanders , that is like here we are come get us nyah nyah . Commanding is an awareness of what followers want mix it up ,bit of this bit of that not head banging SMC endlessly.

  • enkidu.5937enkidu.5937 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 25, 2018

    @Rayya.2591 said:
    To lead a group takes extra effort that is not currently rewarded.
    Don't get me wrong but it often happened while i was active to message enemy commanders for months to ask for fights, and the most usual answer is :" i cba to fight organized blobs with pugs" can't rely on those pugs / can't get more than 40 on voice, with queue on map. Fact is , most of the commanders i know rely on their guilds and friends if they want to get something done, the randoms that are on map are mostly" extra".

    Mostly agree with your other points, but this part . . . What "rewards" does a commander expect? A public zerg with 100% Meta-builds, TS, and good movement? The enemy commander also has to deal with casuals, newbies, rally bots etc., so blaming those players for the loss is often just a lazy excuse imo.

    I understand that commanders mainly get their fun out of coordinated teamplay. For many, the win rate even comes secondary. But "the team" is not just the commander and his/her 50 zerglings, its also the 100 ppl that are active on the maps. During off-tag roaming activities, that soulbeast in your squad already contributed a lot directly to the commander's and the zerg's performance / game experience / fun / QoL:

    • providing supps: the commander can just port into that T3 keep, grab 300 supps, and immediately continue doing stuff that's fun
    • providing intelligence data: spotting enemy zergs and hinder enemy scouts to outspot our zerg
    • keeping enemy keeps at T0-1, so the commander can walk in and have some fun there
    • providing bloodlust

    The trade-off: such roamers need some big-scale fun, as well. Just pay them off with a lead from time to time, even if they can't handle a meta build with key binds, refuse to TS, and maybe will never become a good zergling at all.

    There are also newbies, that may contribute in the future. And there are bad players, that only contribute by numbers.

  • gimo.3281gimo.3281 Member ✭✭
    edited November 27, 2018

    you charge with 3 people and the rest of your map queue zerg is 6 inches behind you.

  • @ThunderPanda.1872 said:
    People who complains about commanders should tag up and lead themselves if they think they could do better

    I do, and I'm just as guilty of the meme. Which is why I made it

    It's a game man, chill lol

  • @Rayya.2591 said:

    Actually a good portion of it is that the commander is an idiot.
    It is the reason scout numbers declined over time.
    The fundamental flaws in a commander behavior:

    1:Bigger ego than capabilities,verbal abusing everyone.
    2:Ignoring scout calls for reinforcements,and ignoring information about enemy Zerg location.
    3:Bullet dodgeing,aka when they tag down whenever opposition shows up which is basically cowardice and letting everything to burn.
    That alone droves a commanders popularity down fast.
    4:Non existent map awareness,leading into delivering bags to enemy.
    5:Pointless SM headbutting,wasting everyone's time while also delivering bags to enemy.
    6:shameless promotions,tagging for 30 mins to backcap paper and spamming guild recruitment for 2 hours past that.
    7:bad logistics,draining all objectives from supply without going to backcap the camps.
    8:inability to preplan presiege and be at an objective before the enemy arrives to it.
    9:inability to calculate the odds of winning on open field and in close quarters against an organised boonspam+scourge guild Zerg with just pugs.
    1 time you can ignore it,but the 3rd time you just dump the com.
    10:not taking criticism and advice,and not improving.
    11:taking credit for other people work.

    And list goes on,bottom line there is no rule that says people are obligated to follow a commander.
    And small groups/solo roamers usually provide more contribution.

    it is funny how many players try to blame commander for everything, yet take credits when things went well.
    So public commanders have to deal with

    • players that refuse to join squad
    • players that refuse to join voice channels
    • players that try to give advices on how they belive battle should go on , yet they don;t want to lead themself
    • random squad composition , because is not an RTS game where you pick your units before fight, you deal with what you got
    • pin snipe - not always
    • players that shout like cows that they lost a camp in a middle of the fights
    • cry babies that cry the commander drained keep supply after they escorted the dolyak
    • classic scout reports like "inc" "help" / ping objective on map and say contested 15 seconds latter
    • ranged players that blame commander that they got rekt by enemy melee , 2000 range away from their tag
    • melee that won't move with tag
      Yet you see topics on forums like " what happened with commanders" why they don;t tag. To lead a group takes extra effort that is not currently rewarded.
      Don't get me wrong but it often happened while i was active to message enemy commanders for months to ask for fights, and the most usual answer is :" i cba to fight organized blobs with pugs" can't rely on those pugs / can't get more than 40 on voice, with queue on map. Fact is , most of the commanders i know rely on their guilds and friends if they want to get something done, the randoms that are on map are mostly" extra".

    I am just pointing the obvious reasons why a commander popularity declines ,and as much you try to blanket excuse commanders I never made a blanket statement over all commanders.
    And your list is practically a mirror copy of a bad commander consequences list springled with a blame the players mentality.

  • Rayya.2591Rayya.2591 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 29, 2018

    @grave of hearts.7830 said:

    I am just pointing the obvious reasons why a commander popularity declines ,and as much you try to blanket excuse commanders I never made a blanket statement over all commanders.
    And your list is practically a mirror copy of a bad commander consequences list springled with a blame the players mentality.

    no you actualy only express your own oppinion, wich some may disagree with. While in the past 6 years of the game majority understood that a commander can be good or bad (depending on the quality of his followers) it actualy surpirse me that there are still players that belive the commander is the deciding factor.
    the only time that commander can be the deciding factor, is when player quality is close to even on both sides, wich is rare
    However in the past 6 years of the game i've seen plently of examples of good commanders losing fights against blobs without commander. Yet the losers could blame their commander right?

  • ArchonWing.9480ArchonWing.9480 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 29, 2018

    @enkidu.5937 said:
    Not sure why people leave the squad after some losses (or not even join from the start), because they lost? Maybe, but there are only a couple of precious hours during prime time, were most of the big scale action takes place. So, why not try over again? You still can roam the other 22 hours.

    Because the commi is bad, made mistakes? Surely not, casuals are very forgiving, and most commis know what they do.

    I guess its because the commi's rant / bad mood / "let's train movement and big bombs then". Which is ok I guess, from time to time, but prime time is precious, and people want to play during that 2 hours, not school, when most of the WvW action, and big scale fights takes place. Pretty sure they are not even receptive at that time.

    PS: I prefer those commis, that just lead, don't comment, and make a resume or commented fight once every hour, and then continue to play without many comments.

    It's a difficult balance to achieve. You need to let people know they're screwing up, because doing it again will just ruin things. But you also can't dwell on it and this is what people do.

    And of course people shouldn't act like they own the squad either, since they're nothing without the followers anyways.

    @ThunderPanda.1872 said:
    People who complains about commanders should tag up and lead themselves if they think they could do better

    I've noticed a lot of that backseat commanding comes from people that are too afraid to do it themselves, since they know they'll probably fail at it anyways. Opposite side of the coin; it seems like the presence of a tag seems to threaten their ego.

    If they were any good, they wouldn't need a icon telling them what to do anyways.

  • i know a commander who is so very cryptic in his desicions/movements and make his followers go "????".

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @luzonophir.7134 said:
    i know a commander who is so very cryptic in his desicions/movements and make his followers go "????".

    Well scouts do the same so it's really universal. I always go into WvW expecting reports like "5 enemies on west gate bay" followed by orange swords on lord 3 seconds later.

  • Junkpile.7439Junkpile.7439 Member ✭✭✭

    This game need npc commanders. Those would probably be much smarter than player commanders. :D

    Low quality trolling since launch
    Seafarer's Rest EotM Hero

  • LetoII.3782LetoII.3782 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2, 2018

    @Junkpile.7439 said:
    This game need npc commanders.

    You're going to hurt Siegerazer's feelings if you're not careful

    [HUNT] the predatory instinct

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2, 2018

    @LetoII.3782 said:

    @Junkpile.7439 said:
    This game need npc commanders.

    You're going to hurt Siegerazer's feelings if you're not careful

    Yeah it had NPC commanders until Anet decided "kitten it we cant be kitten to make them work again, lets promote spawncamping instead and make the weak servers a little weaker"

  • luzonophir.7134luzonophir.7134 Member ✭✭
    edited December 4, 2018

    @Junkpile.7439 said:
    This game need npc commanders. Those would probably be much smarter than player commanders. :D

    i've seen kraits dodging my rifle warrior's kill shot, centaurs in kessex hills evading my whirling axe and kitten mordrems in dragon stand fight like 1 level up to pro pvpers.

  • gebrechen.5643gebrechen.5643 Member ✭✭✭

    @Zero.3871 said:

    @DanAlcedo.3281 said:
    And thats why i want to see all allied players on the map as green dots.

    Where the kitten is everybody?!?!???!!

    I HAVE FOUND THEM!!!! on spawn… Clearing their bank.

    Nah, that's what I thought after seeing that 60 EBG queue last week. There were 5-10 people standing around at spawn and EB keep combined and the pin had 31 in his squad + 4. That still leaves a lot of numbers for roamers. Wonder where or what they roam.
    I support the "like to see all allied players as dots on the map - thingie"

    Disciples of the monkey god [Apes]

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @gebrechen.5643 said:

    @Zero.3871 said:

    @DanAlcedo.3281 said:
    And thats why i want to see all allied players on the map as green dots.

    Where the kitten is everybody?!?!???!!

    I HAVE FOUND THEM!!!! on spawn… Clearing their bank.

    Nah, that's what I thought after seeing that 60 EBG queue last week. There were 5-10 people standing around at spawn and EB keep combined and the pin had 31 in his squad + 4. That still leaves a lot of numbers for roamers. Wonder where or what they roam.
    I support the "like to see all allied players as dots on the map - thingie"

    I guess I would ask what the real benefit of that would be?

    I can honestly say enough commanders don’t like just anyone following them, and those that DO want them following them might just turn it into a toxic mess.

  • Blackarps.1974Blackarps.1974 Member ✭✭✭

    The best ones are the ones that have 50/50 squads, lose 10 people on engage then are already back in their keeps from running while their slow players are still getting eaten alive.

  • SkyShroud.2865SkyShroud.2865 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 6, 2018

    Commanding isn't hard these days since you do not have call for blast. The only difficult part of commanding now is getting people to join you on coms. If you got tons of people on coms, you can easily roll people down, if you only got handful, not much different from pug zerg without com.

    Founder & Leader of Equinox Solstice [TIME], a Singapore-Based International PvX Guild
    Henge of Denravi Server
    www.gw2time.com

    --

    Explanations of WvW Structures & Populations Issues

  • zionophir.6845zionophir.6845 Member ✭✭
    edited December 7, 2018

    you don't even need comms to command coz i've seen a pug commander who doesn't even (spam) type his commands with mixed population of milita pwned Cloudfly's JQ strong group before.

    and that commander only had 6 people in his squad. the rest, of course, are not in the squad.

  • Trajan.4953Trajan.4953 Member ✭✭✭

    @zionophir.6845 said:
    you don't even need comms to command coz i've seen a pug commander who doesn't even (spam) type his commands with mixed population of milita pwned Cloudfly's JQ strong group before.

    and that commander only had 6 people in his squad. the rest, of course, are not in the squad.

    Random pugs vs. Random pugs are not really a good metric for a decent fight.

  • zionophir.6845zionophir.6845 Member ✭✭
    edited December 8, 2018

    @Trajan.4953 said:

    @zionophir.6845 said:
    you don't even need comms to command coz i've seen a pug commander who doesn't even (spam) type his commands with mixed population of milita pwned Cloudfly's JQ strong group before.

    and that commander only had 6 people in his squad. the rest, of course, are not in the squad.

    Random pugs vs. Random pugs are not really a good metric for a decent fight.

    it was random pugs vs Cloudfly's guild and some JQ pugs.

    You should've seen it. was EPIC.

    well it was classified = For Our Eyes Only anyway so yeah.

    Note: "Hidden Tactics"

  • @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:
    In my experience commanding and following other commanders, the majority of wipes happen because of

    A -Squirreling
    B -180 Retreating
    C -Bad positioning

    When commanders ignore their tail, especially while wandering in enemy territory while under siege, they won’t have enough numbers when engaging the enemy zerg(bad positioning) if you decide to squirrel around in said territory, and not engage and push the other zergs back line, then you’ll get picked off 1 by 1. If you squirrel about and then the enemy decides to push and THEN you 180 retreat, that’s how you wipe.

    This is the reason commanders lose fights most of the time. Sometimes what I see is the Zerg itself not understanding or following a commander who may actually be trying to push or gain a better position, but the Zerg won’t listen, and eventually the Zerg dies because of those three things mentioned above.

    When commanders say “get on tag” you should get on tag...because in most situations when you aren’t pushing on the tag you are just detrimental to the Zerg. If you notice a tag that pushes head on into another Zerg, it’s a sign of a bad commander. Good commanders will always push into the back line by circling around (forcing the enemy Zerg to move so that the tail is more obvious) and push straight into the tail, which usually forces an enemy retreat (which is when they wipe)

    If you notice in guild v guild Zerg battles it’s about 20 minutes of Zerg dance-off to try and get a good position and opportunity to reach into the tail. A good gvg Zerg will move so tightly that no tail will ever be present...which is why they are so deadly.

    Well said. Bro

  • ArchonWing.9480ArchonWing.9480 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 4, 2019

    I love the fact that so many commanders don't realize that if you're 2 miles ahead of your zerg that the enemy will naturally all unload on the first thing in sight.

    They still think they're being "sniped". Same goes for the backliner that's also somewhere in middle of the Pacific.

  • avey.4201avey.4201 Member ✭✭
    edited January 9, 2019

    I block commanders who turn and run, may as well lay down and give them the kill, 10v20 you can run away and die with no kills, or hit them killing around 60% before you die.

  • BadMed.3846BadMed.3846 Member ✭✭✭

    I laugh at commanders who demand the map queue to join their squad or leave the map. Dude, I came to kill fireflies in EBG, let me do that!

    Also, the worst commanders often just blame the pugs. Like the lost wolves on a kane stack.

  • Inoki.6048Inoki.6048 Member ✭✭✭

    @BadMed.3846 said:
    I laugh at commanders who demand the map queue to join their squad or leave the map. Dude, I came to kill fireflies in EBG, let me do that!

    Also, the worst commanders often just blame the pugs. Like the lost wolves on a kane stack.

    sounds like Deso, Vabbi, WSR and a few others you're talking about.

  • BadMed.3846BadMed.3846 Member ✭✭✭

    @Inoki.6048 said:

    @BadMed.3846 said:
    I laugh at commanders who demand the map queue to join their squad or leave the map. Dude, I came to kill fireflies in EBG, let me do that!

    Also, the worst commanders often just blame the pugs. Like the lost wolves on a kane stack.

    sounds like Deso, Vabbi, WSR and a few others you're talking about.

    I'm sure it would be present there too. I was talking about NA. I'm sure most people on NA know what I'm talking about.

  • Threather.9354Threather.9354 Member ✭✭✭

    @BadMed.3846 said:
    Also, the worst commanders often just blame the pugs. Like the lost wolves on a kane stack.

    This is pretty much all the commanders these days. The level is so low., not just the commander, also the playerbase...

    Great guilds are gone, there's some good ones left, and most active people bandvagon the moment they start losing fights thus almost no1 is keeping their own skilllevel.

    For veteran decent commanders at this stage of game it is pretty obvious what corrupts do and which boons and conditions are important so they forget to explain this stuff to the new players. Then theres also mostly other commanders that have no clue what they're doing and can't tell difference of what will happen from moving left right back or front.

    Anyways what I am saying is that commanders and communities should teach their players. Not only promote builds and voice comms but also explain how they work. It doesn't matter how many people you have on voice comms if you're not utilizing it. The group should get better every day regarding the game, not stay the same or regress...

    Ri Ba - WvW Commander/hard carry
    Making Desolation great again/Alt somewhere
    Diamond Legend

  • Odinens.5920Odinens.5920 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 11, 2019

    If there's one thing I hate in WvW it's backseat commanders. There's really only one thing I say to them when I see them goin off on a commander in chat - Tag up or shut up!

    It takes a certain amount of courage and confidence to tag up and have people follow you. Unless you have it, and are willing to show that you possess it, you can pretty much say hello to my block list, cuz I have no respect for you at that point, and couldn't care less what else you may have to say.

  • BadMed.3846BadMed.3846 Member ✭✭✭

    @Odinens.5920 said:
    If there's one thing I hate in WvW it's backseat commanders.

    On the contrary, I hate dumb people who would defend bad commanders. It's like blind faith and religious to them that they defy all logic. One must use their own judgement.

    Even bigger idiots are the ones who demand that backstage commanders should tag up. Why? If I criticise the president it doesn't mean I should run for president. Get over it! A bad commander is a bad commander. Take it on the chin and learn to play.

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @BadMed.3846 said:

    @Odinens.5920 said:
    If there's one thing I hate in WvW it's backseat commanders.

    On the contrary, I hate dumb people who would defend bad commanders. It's like blind faith and religious to them that they defy all logic. One must use their own judgement.

    Even bigger idiots are the ones who demand that backstage commanders should tag up. Why? If I criticise the president it doesn't mean I should run for president. Get over it! A bad commander is a bad commander. Take it on the chin and learn to play.

    As a PM, sure. Publicly? Have to agree with Odi. I mean, you can do it, but if your intent is to be helpful, mapchat is kind of a young cat move honestly.

  • LetoII.3782LetoII.3782 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Nobody likes backseat drivers
    Hence the phrase

    [HUNT] the predatory instinct

  • shiri.4257shiri.4257 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 11, 2019

    @BadMed.3846 said:
    Even bigger idiots are the ones who demand that backstage commanders should tag up. Why? If I criticise the president it doesn't mean I should run for president. Get over it! A bad commander is a bad commander. Take it on the chin and learn to play.

    Actually it does, just means you need to take it on the chin and man up.

    Spectre [VII] - Wood League Champion. Making "fight guilds" stack on higher tiers since 2013.
    Wood League News Network [WLNN]- www.twitch.tv/shirirx

  • Odinens.5920Odinens.5920 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 11, 2019

    @BadMed.3846 said:

    @Odinens.5920 said:
    If there's one thing I hate in WvW it's backseat commanders.

    On the contrary, I hate dumb people who would defend bad commanders. It's like blind faith and religious to them that they defy all logic. One must use their own judgement.

    Even bigger idiots are the ones who demand that backstage commanders should tag up. Why? If I criticise the president it doesn't mean I should run for president. Get over it! A bad commander is a bad commander. Take it on the chin and learn to play.

    People make bad decisions. Do you call out good commanders when they make them? Probably not. It's called taking orders, good OR bad, and anyone that's ever been in the military (since you'd like to compare this to a real world scenario) will tell you the military is the least democratic organization in the world. You don't get to vote on an order. Just like following a commander, you don't get a vote....if you don't like the way he's driving you can leave or tag up and try to do better yourself.

    Criticizing commanders in team or map chat does nothing but discourage newer commanders from continuing to learn and command, and keeps people that have never tagged from wanting to, due to inconsiderate people being toxic to their every move.

    Fewer commanders = fewer people following anybody, and that means people new to WvW are less likely to stay.

  • I leave a commander for a couple of reasons.
    1. They never fully commit to a fight. They sort of get in there and then run away. They throw up siege and run away if there is the slightest opposition. And it is no because they are responding to a call out. I don't find that fun.
    2. As part of number 1, I leave when commanders abandon their zerg. It will seem like we've committed to a fight or objective, and you follow the commander into the fray or jump on siege cause you have maxed stats and a can do good damage with the siege. Then you die because the commander veered off and is running from the fight, everyone who committed to the fight or working the siege are left to die.
    I hear you say, it is your fault. You weren't paying attention or not on teamspeak or whatever is being used. Maybe true, but I've had bad luck with headphones -- mostly my cat finding them delicious and I don't want some of the conversations that take place blasting through my speakers.
    Which brings me to ...
    3. Insistence on only communicating in voice chat, making it hard to follow if you don't use it.
    4. Insistence that if you don't have the right build, armor, or class you have no business in wvw. I've wvw'ed since launch. I think I make a good pug. I can hold
    5. I know what I am doing and have quietly led fellow roamers to so pretty awesome feats.
    I agree one doesn't need to abuse commanders. They are trying and I always give them multiple chance. Some improve. But if they don't they will find themselves zerging alone.

  • BadMed.3846BadMed.3846 Member ✭✭✭

    Each to their own I guess. Some people like being minions.
    Btw, military ranks are not 300g a piece. It's different.

  • ArchonWing.9480ArchonWing.9480 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 11, 2019

    @BadMed.3846 said:

    Even bigger idiots are the ones who demand that backstage commanders should tag up. Why? If I criticise the president it doesn't mean I should run for president. Get over it! A bad commander is a bad commander. Take it on the chin and learn to play.

    Nah. It's more like if you criticize the president by asking him why doesn't he just fire Congress. In that case, you don't even understand what a president can or cannot do, and are simply talking because you want to be heard.

    Remember, you both can be terrible and that's what people are really seeing. Bad commanders should indeed take feedback, but not all feedback is useful.

    Finally, why are people idiots for weighing between having a bag tag or no tag at all? You don't provide any benefit to them and if you logged off they wouldn't care. In fact, it'd be a net benefit to them. Just because they're protecting their own interests doesn't make them idiots.

  • Odinens.5920Odinens.5920 Member ✭✭✭

    @BadMed.3846 said:
    Each to their own I guess. Some people like being minions.
    Btw, military ranks are not 300g a piece. It's different.

    Paying for a tag and using it are 2 different things. I've had a tag for almost a year but only use it in PvE. What's your point?

  • BadMed.3846BadMed.3846 Member ✭✭✭

    @Odinens.5920 said:

    @BadMed.3846 said:
    Each to their own I guess. Some people like being minions.
    Btw, military ranks are not 300g a piece. It's different.

    Paying for a tag and using it are 2 different things. I've had a tag for almost a year but only use it in PvE. What's your point?

    Everyone using it is not a good commander. Everyone on map has every right to be honest enough to say it and refuse to follow. You like it or not, it's your problem. Sort it out yourself.

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