Can we only salvage upgrades with black lion now? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Can we only salvage upgrades with black lion now?

I like that upgrades are salvageable but... what if we want to keep the upgrade, but not buy gems for black lion salvage kits??

Answers

  • @Saniyah.1984 said:
    I like that upgrades are salvageable but... what if we want to keep the upgrade, but not buy gems for black lion salvage kits??

    Your choices to obtain sigils/runes are now:

    • Upgrade extractors (infinite or single-use)
    • BL Salvage Kit
    • TP
    • Crafting (covers any upgrade that previously dropped from gear alone and several others).
    • Previous sources (e.g. dungeons)

    "Face the facts. Then act on them. It's ...the only doctrine I have to offer you, & it's harder than you'd think, because I swear humans seem hardwired to do anything but. Face the facts. Don't pray, don't wish, ...FACE THE FACTS. THEN act." — Quellcrist Falconer

  • MokahTGS.7850MokahTGS.7850 Member ✭✭✭

    and the TP prices go wild...

  • I understand that, but that meant the prices will go up :(

  • kharmin.7683kharmin.7683 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I really love the P2W panic. So overhyped.

    I am a very casual player.
    Very.
    Casual.

  • Palador.2170Palador.2170 Member ✭✭✭

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:
    Nice way to force people to buy gems to obtain stuff that used to be free...
    Its nice to see a game that you have to buy becoming more and more pay to win!
    Enjoy your game guys.

    Except that you can also get the upgrade extractors and the Black Lion Salvage Kits for free. Yes, it requires a bit of luck, but it can and does happen.

    Also, you want to allow a couple of days for things to settle down, and data to be gathered. Then we'll have a better idea of the costs to craft sigils and runes, and if it's even practical to spend gems to use extractors and BLSKs on any specific runes/sigils.

    Lip synching is just mime karaoke.

  • Gop.8713Gop.8713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I don't see how this could end badly for players. It will be crazy at first with ppl speculating on prices and trying out a bunch of new builds, but over time once a new 'meta' settles in -- which it inevitably will -- mats will drop in much larger quantities than they are consumed and crafting will be a cheap and reliable way to get new runes, which will also drive down their tp prices for ppl who refuse to craft . . .

    Or put another way, do you swap your runes and sigils out of non-leg weaps and armor more or less often than you get loots . . ?

    It could theoretically have other outcomes ofc, but it won't . . .

  • Just a flesh wound.3589Just a flesh wound.3589 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 13, 2018

    If I understand the consequences correctly minor and major runes and sigils will disappear from the trading post as they salvage when gear is salvaged, unless you use BL salvage kit or an extractor, and Superior Runes and Sigils will be rarer and increase in price.

    When people asked for the ability to salvage gear upgrades I thought they’d put it in as an option with regular salvages.

    Be careful what you ask for
    ANet might give it to you.

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  • Gop.8713Gop.8713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Just a flesh wound.3589 said:
    If I understand the consequences correctly minor and major runes and sigils will disappear from the trading post as they salvage when gear is salvaged, unless you use BL salvage kit or an extractor, and Superior Runes and Sigils will be rarer and increase in price.

    When people asked for the ability to salvage gear upgrades I thought they’d put it in as an option with regular salvages.

    But the result of that is there will be all these mats out there which can be turned into runes and sigils. If prices rise to the point where it will be profitable to do so, ppl will craft and list them . . .

  • Khisanth.2948Khisanth.2948 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Just a flesh wound.3589 said:
    If I understand the consequences correctly minor and major runes and sigils will disappear from the trading post as they salvage when gear is salvaged, unless you use BL salvage kit or an extractor, and Superior Runes and Sigils will be rarer and increase in price.

    When people asked for the ability to salvage gear upgrades I thought they’d put it in as an option with regular salvages.

    But the result of that is there will be all these mats out there which can be turned into runes and sigils. If prices rise to the point where it will be profitable to do so, ppl will craft and list them . . .

    The materials will probably plummet in price pretty quickly once people are done spending the charms and stuff on the new recipe sheets.

  • @Gop.8713 said:

    @Just a flesh wound.3589 said:
    If I understand the consequences correctly minor and major runes and sigils will disappear from the trading post as they salvage when gear is salvaged, unless you use BL salvage kit or an extractor, and Superior Runes and Sigils will be rarer and increase in price.

    When people asked for the ability to salvage gear upgrades I thought they’d put it in as an option with regular salvages.

    But the result of that is there will be all these mats out there which can be turned into runes and sigils. If prices rise to the point where it will be profitable to do so, ppl will craft and list them . . .

    True
    They won’t be selling for vendor price anymore though if they have to be crafted first. Should make the lower tier mats increase in price also.

    Be careful what you ask for
    ANet might give it to you.

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  • Gop.8713Gop.8713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Khisanth.2948 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Just a flesh wound.3589 said:
    If I understand the consequences correctly minor and major runes and sigils will disappear from the trading post as they salvage when gear is salvaged, unless you use BL salvage kit or an extractor, and Superior Runes and Sigils will be rarer and increase in price.

    When people asked for the ability to salvage gear upgrades I thought they’d put it in as an option with regular salvages.

    But the result of that is there will be all these mats out there which can be turned into runes and sigils. If prices rise to the point where it will be profitable to do so, ppl will craft and list them . . .

    The materials will probably plummet in price pretty quickly once people are done spending the charms and stuff on the new recipe sheets.

    Yes, the price of the runes/sigils flesh wound was referring to was what I meant. Sry if that was unclear . . .

    The increasing availability of mats is what would make crafting expensive runes and sigils profitable, which would cause their prices to fall . . .

  • Gop.8713Gop.8713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Just a flesh wound.3589 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Just a flesh wound.3589 said:
    If I understand the consequences correctly minor and major runes and sigils will disappear from the trading post as they salvage when gear is salvaged, unless you use BL salvage kit or an extractor, and Superior Runes and Sigils will be rarer and increase in price.

    When people asked for the ability to salvage gear upgrades I thought they’d put it in as an option with regular salvages.

    But the result of that is there will be all these mats out there which can be turned into runes and sigils. If prices rise to the point where it will be profitable to do so, ppl will craft and list them . . .

    True
    They won’t be selling for vendor price anymore though if they have to be crafted first. Should make the lower tier mats increase in price also.

    Yeah it all depends on drop rates and how many sigils you have to salvage to craft a new sigil, etc. And the high-demand runes and sigils will prolly still be pricier than the junk ones, but still, how often do you really need to craft a new set . . ?

  • Khisanth.2948Khisanth.2948 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Already have one of the charms drop by around 10s(a quarter of its previous value) from a few minutes ago ...

  • Palador.2170Palador.2170 Member ✭✭✭

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:

    Hey, i can also win the lottery, or i can strike oil while digging a well...
    It was already RNG, now i have to wait for the RNG of getting a Black lion salvage kit with it's whole 25 charges from the daily login, or have to be even more lucky and get a black lion chest key to get whatever...
    While i used to have a 80% chance of salvaging upgrades from an item i'd buy on the nearest NPC or the Guild Hall... Pretty sure the chance of getting a Black lion salvage kit isn't 80%.
    And yes, i do have several extra black lion salvage kits, but unlike you, i don't think only for myself.

    Ah, but I'm not thinking only of (I assume that's what you meant) myself. I am, however, thinking long term.

    Sigils and runes will be craftable now. If I understand it right, there will no longer be ANY that come only from drops. Given that, a lot of formerly expensive upgrades may soon drop in price. (There will be a period of instability in the prices as things sort themselves out, naturally.) So, how many are going to be worth salvaging intact? Of those, how many are going to be in something that you don't want to keep?

    If it's not worth taking out intact, then you'll be using any other salvage kit you want. And if it's in something you want to keep, then you'd need to use an Extractor anyway even before this change.

    Now, how long will those 25 charges in just one kit last you? Well... you said it yourself, you already have several extra Black Lion Salvage Kits. And if you wanted to make sure you got the upgrade, you already had to use them or an Extractor. So, you're apparently getting them faster than you needed them. And if you were willing to take a 20% chance of not getting the upgrade, then it couldn't have been that important to you, right? With this change, those upgrades should become less rare, and less vital to recover, making those 25 charges last even longer.

    Now, you may notice I didn't mention how many BL Salvage Kits I may or may not have. That's because it doesn't matter. I tried to look at this from the point of view of a brand new player, or one that's tossed out the kits before now. Someone starting from zero in this area, basically. And yes, for them, this may have an added cost in the short term. In the long term, however, I think this is going to be an improvement for everyone.

    Once things stabilize, that is.

    Lip synching is just mime karaoke.

  • Danikat.8537Danikat.8537 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 13, 2018

    Maybe I'm just less organised than other people (a real possibility) but I can't remember the last time I salvaged runes or sigils from something because I wanted to use them myself. The chances of having an item with the right upgrade at the right time is extremely low, in my experience lower than the chance of getting a free black lion kit or even free upgrade extractor (I've got 2 or 3 of those, can't even remember where they came from). And I'm not going to keep a piece of equipment because I might one day want the upgrade that's in it.

    So for me the process has always been: Get drops > salvage > sell runes/sigils on the TP or to a merchant > later buy different runes/sigils from the TP or a merchant. So this system changes nothing. Yes the price of runes and sigils has gone up, but the new materials are also worth more than the upgrades were so that helps balance it out, and it's way too early to say what will happen long-term.

    And this way there's a second option - using the materials to craft upgrades to use or to sell, depending on which is more economical.

    "You can run like a river, Till you end up in the sea,
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  • @ReaverKane.7598 said:
    Nice way to force people to buy gems to obtain stuff that used to be free...

    How is anyone remotely forced to buy gems? Previously, the sole source for most of this stuff was luck or the TP. Now, you can make just about any rune or sigil, that doesn't have some other predictable source.

    Plus, we have no idea what the market is going to be like in a month or three. People are over-spending today because everything is new & shiny, but over time, the supply of lucent motes, charms, and symbols is going to outstrip the demand and prices will fall. Unlike before, that means that the most coveted runes & sigils won't be priced at 500 times the cheapest; most will be roughly the same price. Plus, since most people aren't changing runes & sigils most of the time, they'll be able to sell more stuff of value on the TP, giving them more to spend.

    tl;dr on the whole, this change is going to turn out to increase savings for people, not increase costs.

    "Face the facts. Then act on them. It's ...the only doctrine I have to offer you, & it's harder than you'd think, because I swear humans seem hardwired to do anything but. Face the facts. Don't pray, don't wish, ...FACE THE FACTS. THEN act." — Quellcrist Falconer

  • Psientist.6437Psientist.6437 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 13, 2018

    Consider as well, the TP will be processing a change in upgrade production as well as a change and sometimes increase in upgrade functionality.

    edit: I believe a new player will experience this new upgrade path as a parallel of the general gear crafting path. By the time a new player is ready to craft exotic gear they should have the resources to craft the upgrades they want as well.

    BL salvage kits have increased in value, or put another way, the path of cash is more distinct. I am willing to trade that increase in value and distinction for an increase in the narrative of upgrades.

    edit 2 for worst thing this change demands is tradeable BL salvage kits.

    edit 3 and back to new players....all of those upgrades where a pain in the neck to manage and encouraged investing in bank tabs. This change, imo, makes a new player lighter.

    all primes work and not tearing down has value
    ready purrlayer @ any parsed feels enhance the value of something that is already worth everything
    what other chordal approach but penultimate singing along to quantum cuddle clocks

  • All this changes is I'll use my mystic forge conduit less.

  • Khisanth.2948Khisanth.2948 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:
    Nice way to force people to buy gems to obtain stuff that used to be free...

    How is anyone remotely forced to buy gems? Previously, the sole source for most of this stuff was luck or the TP. Now, you can make just about any rune or sigil, that doesn't have some other predictable source.

    Plus, we have no idea what the market is going to be like in a month or three. People are over-spending today because everything is new & shiny, but over time, the supply of lucent motes, charms, and symbols is going to outstrip the demand and prices will fall. Unlike before, that means that the most coveted runes & sigils won't be priced at 500 times the cheapest; most will be roughly the same price. Plus, since most people aren't changing runes & sigils most of the time, they'll be able to sell more stuff of value on the TP, giving them more to spend.

    tl;dr on the whole, this change is going to turn out to increase savings for people, not increase costs.

    We don't know exactly how the market will be like but it is pretty safe to say these things will be cheaper, probably much cheaper unless someone has reason to believe that nobody is going to be salvaging things any more. Imagine Eye of Kormir now expand that to all content instead of just 1/3rd.

  • Aaralyna.3104Aaralyna.3104 Member ✭✭✭

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    @Saniyah.1984 said:
    I like that upgrades are salvageable but... what if we want to keep the upgrade, but not buy gems for black lion salvage kits??

    Your choices to obtain sigils/runes are now:

    • Previous sources (e.g. dungeons)

    Is this confirmed not to salvage the runes on it with a copper fed salvage tool or the yellow salvage tool that used to give the runes after salvaging the orange item? Or we need the black lion salvage tool to do it. Not taking chances under a reliable option for this btw :P

  • @Gop.8713 said:

    @Khisanth.2948 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Just a flesh wound.3589 said:
    If I understand the consequences correctly minor and major runes and sigils will disappear from the trading post as they salvage when gear is salvaged, unless you use BL salvage kit or an extractor, and Superior Runes and Sigils will be rarer and increase in price.

    When people asked for the ability to salvage gear upgrades I thought they’d put it in as an option with regular salvages.

    But the result of that is there will be all these mats out there which can be turned into runes and sigils. If prices rise to the point where it will be profitable to do so, ppl will craft and list them . . .

    The materials will probably plummet in price pretty quickly once people are done spending the charms and stuff on the new recipe sheets.

    Yes, the price of the runes/sigils flesh wound was referring to was what I meant. Sry if that was unclear . . .

    The increasing availability of mats is what would make crafting expensive runes and sigils profitable, which would cause their prices to fall . . .

    Why would there be an increasing availability of mats? The rate of salvaging should be about the same.

    Be careful what you ask for
    ANet might give it to you.

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  • They should not changed salvage kits and just made it so you could salvage upgrades than people had choice

  • Gop.8713Gop.8713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Just a flesh wound.3589 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Khisanth.2948 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Just a flesh wound.3589 said:
    If I understand the consequences correctly minor and major runes and sigils will disappear from the trading post as they salvage when gear is salvaged, unless you use BL salvage kit or an extractor, and Superior Runes and Sigils will be rarer and increase in price.

    When people asked for the ability to salvage gear upgrades I thought they’d put it in as an option with regular salvages.

    But the result of that is there will be all these mats out there which can be turned into runes and sigils. If prices rise to the point where it will be profitable to do so, ppl will craft and list them . . .

    The materials will probably plummet in price pretty quickly once people are done spending the charms and stuff on the new recipe sheets.

    Yes, the price of the runes/sigils flesh wound was referring to was what I meant. Sry if that was unclear . . .

    The increasing availability of mats is what would make crafting expensive runes and sigils profitable, which would cause their prices to fall . . .

    Why would there be an increasing availability of mats? The rate of salvaging should be about the same.

    But they will be consumed less. With all the rune and sigil changes a lot of ppl will be crafting or purchasing new sets. But once that initial flurry of activity settles down, the mats will be flowing into the market at the same rate but they won't be getting consumed by all the new sets being crafted. Talking about the new rune/sigil mats here, symbols, charms and such . . .

  • Just a flesh wound.3589Just a flesh wound.3589 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 13, 2018

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Just a flesh wound.3589 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Khisanth.2948 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Just a flesh wound.3589 said:
    If I understand the consequences correctly minor and major runes and sigils will disappear from the trading post as they salvage when gear is salvaged, unless you use BL salvage kit or an extractor, and Superior Runes and Sigils will be rarer and increase in price.

    When people asked for the ability to salvage gear upgrades I thought they’d put it in as an option with regular salvages.

    But the result of that is there will be all these mats out there which can be turned into runes and sigils. If prices rise to the point where it will be profitable to do so, ppl will craft and list them . . .

    The materials will probably plummet in price pretty quickly once people are done spending the charms and stuff on the new recipe sheets.

    Yes, the price of the runes/sigils flesh wound was referring to was what I meant. Sry if that was unclear . . .

    The increasing availability of mats is what would make crafting expensive runes and sigils profitable, which would cause their prices to fall . . .

    Why would there be an increasing availability of mats? The rate of salvaging should be about the same.

    But they will be consumed less. With all the rune and sigil changes a lot of ppl will be crafting or purchasing new sets. But once that initial flurry of activity settles down, the mats will be flowing into the market at the same rate but they won't be getting consumed by all the new sets being crafted. Talking about the new rune/sigil mats here, symbols, charms and such . . .

    How will they be consumed less when a new crafting sink has been added? New people will be leveling crafting and needing runes and sigils as well as when the meta changes.

    Or we talking about the same thing? When I’m referring to mats I’m talking about the Tier 1 through Tier 6 mats.

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    ANet might give it to you.

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  • @DaFishBob.6518 said:
    All this changes is I'll use my mystic forge conduit less.

    Would you go back to using it more if the MF became easier to use?

    all primes work and not tearing down has value
    ready purrlayer @ any parsed feels enhance the value of something that is already worth everything
    what other chordal approach but penultimate singing along to quantum cuddle clocks

  • dusanyu.4057dusanyu.4057 Member ✭✭✭

    @Gop.8713 said:
    I don't see how this could end badly for players. It will be crazy at first with ppl speculating on prices and trying out a bunch of new builds, but over time once a new 'meta' settles in -- which it inevitably will -- mats will drop in much larger quantities than they are consumed and crafting will be a cheap and reliable way to get new runes, which will also drive down their tp prices for ppl who refuse to craft . . .

    Or put another way, do you swap your runes and sigils out of non-leg weaps and armor more or less often than you get loots . . ?

    It could theoretically have other outcomes ofc, but it won't . . .

    they made the symbols required to craft upgrades a Rare drop adding in more coin flip play i don't mind the harder to extract runes but, the RNG that annoys me

  • Gop.8713Gop.8713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Just a flesh wound.3589 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Just a flesh wound.3589 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Khisanth.2948 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Just a flesh wound.3589 said:
    If I understand the consequences correctly minor and major runes and sigils will disappear from the trading post as they salvage when gear is salvaged, unless you use BL salvage kit or an extractor, and Superior Runes and Sigils will be rarer and increase in price.

    When people asked for the ability to salvage gear upgrades I thought they’d put it in as an option with regular salvages.

    But the result of that is there will be all these mats out there which can be turned into runes and sigils. If prices rise to the point where it will be profitable to do so, ppl will craft and list them . . .

    The materials will probably plummet in price pretty quickly once people are done spending the charms and stuff on the new recipe sheets.

    Yes, the price of the runes/sigils flesh wound was referring to was what I meant. Sry if that was unclear . . .

    The increasing availability of mats is what would make crafting expensive runes and sigils profitable, which would cause their prices to fall . . .

    Why would there be an increasing availability of mats? The rate of salvaging should be about the same.

    But they will be consumed less. With all the rune and sigil changes a lot of ppl will be crafting or purchasing new sets. But once that initial flurry of activity settles down, the mats will be flowing into the market at the same rate but they won't be getting consumed by all the new sets being crafted. Talking about the new rune/sigil mats here, symbols, charms and such . . .

    How will they be consumed less when a new crafting sink has been added? New people will be leveling crafting and needing runes and sigils as well as when the meta changes.

    Or we talking about the same thing? When I’m referring to mats I’m talking about the Tier 1 through Tier 6 mats.

    No I mean the new rune/sigil mats. Charms, symbols and the motes. I thought it was misconstrued tried to clarify in the last line of the post you just quoted . . .

  • Gop.8713Gop.8713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @dusanyu.4057 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:
    I don't see how this could end badly for players. It will be crazy at first with ppl speculating on prices and trying out a bunch of new builds, but over time once a new 'meta' settles in -- which it inevitably will -- mats will drop in much larger quantities than they are consumed and crafting will be a cheap and reliable way to get new runes, which will also drive down their tp prices for ppl who refuse to craft . . .

    Or put another way, do you swap your runes and sigils out of non-leg weaps and armor more or less often than you get loots . . ?

    It could theoretically have other outcomes ofc, but it won't . . .

    they made the symbols required to craft upgrades a Rare drop adding in more coin flip play i don't mind the harder to extract runes but, the RNG that annoys me

    That really only matters rn bc they're new and bc a lot of ppl will be changing sets with all the new rune and sigil changes. Over time I really think the new charms and symbols will be a non-factor . . .

  • @Gop.8713 said:

    @Just a flesh wound.3589 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Just a flesh wound.3589 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Khisanth.2948 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Just a flesh wound.3589 said:
    If I understand the consequences correctly minor and major runes and sigils will disappear from the trading post as they salvage when gear is salvaged, unless you use BL salvage kit or an extractor, and Superior Runes and Sigils will be rarer and increase in price.

    When people asked for the ability to salvage gear upgrades I thought they’d put it in as an option with regular salvages.

    But the result of that is there will be all these mats out there which can be turned into runes and sigils. If prices rise to the point where it will be profitable to do so, ppl will craft and list them . . .

    The materials will probably plummet in price pretty quickly once people are done spending the charms and stuff on the new recipe sheets.

    Yes, the price of the runes/sigils flesh wound was referring to was what I meant. Sry if that was unclear . . .

    The increasing availability of mats is what would make crafting expensive runes and sigils profitable, which would cause their prices to fall . . .

    Why would there be an increasing availability of mats? The rate of salvaging should be about the same.

    But they will be consumed less. With all the rune and sigil changes a lot of ppl will be crafting or purchasing new sets. But once that initial flurry of activity settles down, the mats will be flowing into the market at the same rate but they won't be getting consumed by all the new sets being crafted. Talking about the new rune/sigil mats here, symbols, charms and such . . .

    How will they be consumed less when a new crafting sink has been added? New people will be leveling crafting and needing runes and sigils as well as when the meta changes.

    Or we talking about the same thing? When I’m referring to mats I’m talking about the Tier 1 through Tier 6 mats.

    No I mean the new rune/sigil mats. Charms, symbols and the motes. I thought it was misconstrued tried to clarify in the last line of the post you just quoted . . .

    Oh. Well I figured those would drop to coppers after a bit so I wasn’t really thinking of them.

    Be careful what you ask for
    ANet might give it to you.

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  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I am glad I have an Endless Upgrade Extractor. Really comes even more in handy now. ;)

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