Rune and Sigil Changes - 13 November 2018 [Merged] - Page 4 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Rune and Sigil Changes - 13 November 2018 [Merged]

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  • "A majority of runes and sigils are also changing to create greater variety and versatility and to promote more active gameplay."

    Anet employee 1: lets change every 60% to 100% and all 10% damage to x-species to 7%to x-species + 3% overall and just call it a day
    Anet employee 2: sold, lets make tyria great again
    what a joke

  • Victory.2879Victory.2879 Member ✭✭✭

    More damage boosts- just what we needed... /sarcasm.

  • Victory.2879Victory.2879 Member ✭✭✭

    18k and 19k vault from stealth, target hanging over your head unremovable, huge hits from death's judgement with little to no counterplay. Boosting sigils proc just makes the skills even more overpowered. Need a rework of multipliers given the mess wvw is, but that might involve too much work.

    As for the new stealth traps and marked, we'll see them used for a couple weeks then they will go back in the box of 'little to never used tricks in wvw'.

    The huge overhaul to rune sets will take some getting used to and until it settles down I have no strong opinion either way as to whether overall good change. certainly spiced things up a bit.

  • Lolivia.3219Lolivia.3219 Member ✭✭
    edited November 13, 2018

    I don't like it cause it barely changes anything, how do those changes give more variety, when infact all the sigils are updated with the same general boost. "change 60% to 100%" sure, thats a huge buff in some cases, how does it give more active gameplay though? more like, 'just auto-attack cause it will always procc anyways.
    Then on the other side of the spectrum, we have sigil of concentration, that change actually made pretty sure, as a chrono, you cant have as much partial dps gear anymore, you're only good for boons now.
    everyone knows chrono isnt the easiest class, and the concentration sigil was a nice extra step, like, if you're still practicing chrono, just go full commanders/minstril to get used to it, once you get the hang of that, you add the weaponswapping and also dps next to that.
    now its really the exact opposite of "variety" and instead of active gameplay, just stand about and spread boons, no worry about squeezing as much into the 7 second time window, its all good, doesnt matter.
    I really dont understand why it would've seemed a good idea to take the enjoyment of that away from chrono's. I really don't, so please do explain the reasoning behind that, and not something like : it seemed mandatory on high-end... yeah..thats why the sigil itself was high-end..

  • Blocki.4931Blocki.4931 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Victory.2879 said:
    18k and 19k vault from stealth, target hanging over your head unremovable, huge hits from death's judgement with little to no counterplay. Boosting sigils proc just makes the skills even more overpowered. Need a rework of multipliers given the mess wvw is, but that might involve too much work.

    As for the new stealth traps and marked, we'll see them used for a couple weeks then they will go back in the box of 'little to never used tricks in wvw'.

    The huge overhaul to rune sets will take some getting used to and until it settles down I have no strong opinion either way as to whether overall good change. certainly spiced things up a bit.

    Why are you bringing this up? No damage was increased.

    Very passive aggressively chuckling, because I'm totally not mad on the Internet.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Being more bold with the buff and nerfs to actually make a change would be nice. Or are you gonna treat sigils and runes like necro axe and after a year of X% buffs the trash one will be useable.

  • Rysdude.3824Rysdude.3824 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lolivia.3219 said:
    I really dont understand why it would've seemed a good idea to take the enjoyment of that away from chrono's. I really don't, so please do explain the reasoning behind that, and not something like : it seemed mandatory on high-end... yeah..thats why the sigil itself was high-end..

    I'd be interested in seeing which chrono's enjoy this change and which don't.

  • Dreddo.9865Dreddo.9865 Member ✭✭✭

    I welcome the changes, big thanks to Anet. For a long time we were used to utilise a handful of runes/sigils while now they seem a lot more interesting to experiment and provide more options for sure.

  • Blocki.4931Blocki.4931 Member ✭✭✭✭

    So let's recap:

    Most stuff is more of the same, but less garbage and might actually offer options. You won't have to use this one set and only that, now there are more sets that offer very similar benefits. I like that.

    I like the 30%/60% on hit/crit runes being changed to 100% (by the way they use 100% instead of simply "on crit" so that they can later easily fine tune numbers if they wanted to instead of having to rewrite that part).

    I was positively surprised when I saw more 10% health increases. That stuff is always fun. Nerfs to %boon duration. Maybe we're just too used to it and have gotten really entitled, but does everything really need a 100% perfect up time? Probably not. It's a nerf, but it's not like that will make the game unplayable at all.

    Rune sets of Baelfire and Balthazar giving 50% burn duration flat.. this could be fun to play with. Especially that conversion on Baelfire for 7% of your power to expertise.

    We'll see how it turns out. I'm glad I bought almost all runes available some time ago :)

    Very passive aggressively chuckling, because I'm totally not mad on the Internet.

  • LucianDK.8615LucianDK.8615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Chronos well deserved a nerf.

  • @Lolivia.3219 said:
    I don't like it cause it barely changes anything, how do those changes give more variety, when infact all the sigils are updated with the same general boost. "change 60% to 100%" sure, thats a huge buff in some cases, how does it give more active gameplay though? more like, 'just auto-attack cause it will always procc anyways.
    Then on the other side of the spectrum, we have sigil of concentration, that change actually made pretty sure, as a chrono, you cant have as much partial dps gear anymore, you're only good for boons now.
    everyone knows chrono isnt the easiest class, and the concentration sigil was a nice extra step, like, if you're still practicing chrono, just go full commanders/minstril to get used to it, once you get the hang of that, you add the weaponswapping and also dps next to that.
    now its really the exact opposite of "variety" and instead of active gameplay, just stand about and spread boons, no worry about squeezing as much into the 7 second time window, its all good, doesnt matter.
    I really dont understand why it would've seemed a good idea to take the enjoyment of that away from chrono's. I really don't, so please do explain the reasoning behind that, and not something like : it seemed mandatory on high-end... yeah..thats why the sigil itself was high-end..

    i can give u a good reason.

    $$$$$$$$$

    Every balance change means a buff or nerf of a build.

    Every buff or nerf means u have to build up an entire new charcter with an entire new equipment.

    For veteran players like me it is not a broken leg.

    For new players it means, u have to spent Gold.

    For the employee it means their is a possibility for gold exchange for rl money to gain the gold to use it up on the new needed equipment.

    This is a hidden treatmeal we face now for some time.

  • Mithos.9023Mithos.9023 Member ✭✭✭

    I have mixed feelings. While the new rune structure looks much cleaner it seems also a lot more boring, as most runes have only one active effect now.
    Not to mention that many changes here are a big downgrade when it comes to this. A +10 % health is nothing compared to what is lost on many runes. Not to mention an active effect would have been much more interesting than a flat health increase, which will probably have zero influence on actual combat.
    But as mentioned the before after patch note made working through it quite easy, thanks for that.
    Last I like the new effect of permanent companion on the runes, seems like fun.

  • Morte de Angelis.7986Morte de Angelis.7986 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 13, 2018

    I dislike a lot of the changes. Most of the changes feel like remove conditional then add stat or Change to 100%

    Flame Leigon, Fire and Baelfire runes are now very very similar. With the only difference being the 6th bonus with Flame Legion coming out on top due to +7% to burning foes.
    Not enough classes has reliable access to fire aura to make it useful and I can't even remember what the other one was.
    They also changed Altuism's on heal affects and I really want to know why. It allowed classes like FB, Rene, Scrapper, Ele real nice and easy access to Might + Fury for raid encounters (as Druid's have constant fury on pet). The closest we get now is a Rune that gives it as you enter combat, but that's a single application. The only classes out of those three can give constant fury is FB through its Elite Shout (I might be wrong) and Ele if it traits the Fury on aura.

    A lot of the runes interesting (if useless) effects have just been gutted and given stats. Vamprism was really cool with all its life leech is now just a stat stick with a heal when you get too low. Where is the "Vampire" in "Vamprisim" if there is no actual stealing life? I assume that the name was based off the "Vampire" game mods in older shooters like Unreal tournament and Halo.

    Infiltration is another one that I feel like has been changed to simplify for almost no reason. Change all the +% damage to just straight power, so now its a Pwr/Prec rune with vigor on stealth (I don't know why?) and 10% over 14% which now comes into direct confrontation with Eagle but the difference is that Eagle has Prec/Ferocity except gives more stats and doesn't give vigor on health. They are practically the same rune. Granted they didn't have big differences before but I don't see how "promoting diversity" = "making everything really simple"

    There no other way then to say everything just got dumbed down. Anything that was interesting and different or followed a theme just got replaced for stats. I was excited to see that runes were being changed but I didn't think it would be like this. You change all these runes and I really wonder for what reason.

  • Carcharoth Lucian.1378Carcharoth Lucian.1378 Member ✭✭
    edited November 13, 2018

    Patch notes : "Salvage Kits: The chance to extract a rune or sigil from equipment is now a chance to salvage the upgrades directly into their crafting materials. This does not affect Black Lion Salvage Kits, which will continue to always extract upgrades intact."

    PSA : use of Black Lion Salvage Kits on exotic runes and sigils don't give you all the materials !
    Example, i use 5 of them -> no charms and no symbols, just some lucent motes :(

    Carcharoth Lucian/Mini Chibii
    Augury Rock world
    PvE : [CdL] Les Chasseurs De Légendes
    WvW : [MIMs] Mobile Ingénieuse Et Marteau

  • mrauls.6519mrauls.6519 Member ✭✭✭

    @Gaile Gray.6029

    Hey again! I suggest we add Rune of the Lynx to PvE/WvW and change the condition damage part to ferocity everywhere. Thoughts?

  • @cylin.7048 said:
    You just want to sell your fricking upgrade extractors.

    1. I agree and feel that the Dev's should have provided players with a set of extractors FoC so we can rebuild or recover costs associated with builds.
    2. Feels harsh on Mesmer, peeps can have a giggle at that but the net net is less boons for all and prolly less mesmers.
    3. Game is unplayable currently DC's from server within a minute.
    4. Overall I do not see the any 'added value for the player base with these changes:- Cylin nailed it if you ask me.. Mooo goes the cash cow
  • So far I can see that a lot of the less popular runes and sigils have been nerfed heavily. Many of the upgrades I liked have become useless.

    PvP? What's that? Never heard of it.

  • @Blocki.4931 said:

    @Deaths.9165 said:

    @Lolivia.3219 said:
    I don't like it cause it barely changes anything, how do those changes give more variety, when infact all the sigils are updated with the same general boost. "change 60% to 100%" sure, thats a huge buff in some cases, how does it give more active gameplay though? more like, 'just auto-attack cause it will always procc anyways.
    Then on the other side of the spectrum, we have sigil of concentration, that change actually made pretty sure, as a chrono, you cant have as much partial dps gear anymore, you're only good for boons now.
    everyone knows chrono isnt the easiest class, and the concentration sigil was a nice extra step, like, if you're still practicing chrono, just go full commanders/minstril to get used to it, once you get the hang of that, you add the weaponswapping and also dps next to that.
    now its really the exact opposite of "variety" and instead of active gameplay, just stand about and spread boons, no worry about squeezing as much into the 7 second time window, its all good, doesnt matter.
    I really dont understand why it would've seemed a good idea to take the enjoyment of that away from chrono's. I really don't, so please do explain the reasoning behind that, and not something like : it seemed mandatory on high-end... yeah..thats why the sigil itself was high-end..

    i can give u a good reason.

    $$$$$$$$$

    Every balance change means a buff or nerf of a build.

    Every buff or nerf means u have to build up an entire new charcter with an entire new equipment.

    For veteran players like me it is not a broken leg.

    For new players it means, u have to spent Gold.

    For the employee it means their is a possibility for gold exchange for rl money to gain the gold to use it up on the new needed equipment.

    This is a hidden treatmeal we face now for some time.

    Yes, having to spend 50 gold to restat your entire set really is the biggest and newest ploy to get you to bust out your credit card. Glad people like you have figured it out and educate the unwashed masses

    50 Gold means 5h of farm. A rune change means i cant participitate in Raids as new player with my nerfed build. 5h means for a working person. i have less time on to play my favorite modes. Less time for the family. Less time for sports and so on.

    Or i spent rl money for the gold.

  • @Carcharoth Lucian.1378 said:
    Patch notes : "Salvage Kits: The chance to extract a rune or sigil from equipment is now a chance to salvage the upgrades directly into their crafting materials. This does not affect Black Lion Salvage Kits, which will continue to always extract upgrades intact."

    PSA : use of Black Lion Salvage Kits on exotic runes and sigils don't give you all the materials !
    Example, i use 5 of them -> no charms and no symbols, just some lucent motes :(

    Hmmm. If that's counter to the messaging, would you mind posting that in the Bugs Forum, as well? I'll then point to it for the devs. Thanks!

    Gaile Gray
    Communications Manager: ArenaNet
    Fansite & Guild Relations; In-Game Events; Community Showcase Live

  • Turk.5460Turk.5460 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Upon entering combat = if still in combat and cooldown is up, automatically applied again?

    Fort Aspenwood
    Jekkies

  • here is the thing, and, this is obviously mostly about the sigil of concentration.

    the goal was to add more variety, and more active gameplay.
    how does this change promote that?
    every support class that used it, will now lose 23% buff uptime, meaning, they will have to go full support gear, meaning, if you were good and "mastered" your class, and were able to use the sigil to you adventage, meaning you could take less concentration gear, you could also add some dps to the table.

    now, it doesnt matter anymore. if you try REAALLY moderately hard, you can effortlessly squeeze out a solid 2000 dps, and thats it. there is no skill or speed requirement, no planning on when to swap or when to cast, no significant benefit from adding some dps. the difference between someone who mastered their class, and someone who is more at the casual level, is too small, and the limit has now been set to a beginners level with no variety and no point to progress from there further..
    sorry but i dont see how that change, fits into the idea of achieving more active gameplay, it only forces braindead rotation, knowing that before this change, you were able to do much better

  • Turkeyspit.3965Turkeyspit.3965 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 13, 2018

    @Morte de Angelis.7986 said:
    Infiltration is another one that I feel like has been changed to simplify for almost no reason. Change all the +% damage to just straight power, so now its a Pwr/Prec rune >with vigor on stealth (I don't know why?) and 10% over 14% which now comes into direct confrontation with Eagle but the difference is that Eagle has Prec/Ferocity >except gives more stats and doesn't give vigor on health. n't think it would be like this. You change all these runes and I really wonder for what reason.

    lol, all I could think of when I saw the change to Infiltration was:

    "Non-DE Players": ANET, stealth off of dodge is stupid broken. plz fix
    "ANET": Hold my beer!

    Seriously though, there was a lot of work put in to this, and while I don't know the ins or outs, I knew that before this patch there were only a handful of sigils and runes worth looking at, and now at least, I'm looking over all of them trying to figure out if they would be useful.

  • @Turk.5460 said:
    Upon entering combat = if still in combat and cooldown is up, automatically applied again?

    Should be easy enough to test, shouldnt it?
    A bit hard right now with the constant DC's, but I hear a hotfix is in the works.

  • LucianDK.8615LucianDK.8615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Have you forgotten about Facet of Nature from revenants? Herald revs fell out of meta because classes could cap out on boon duration of their own. Which never should have happened.

  • Turk.5460Turk.5460 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @TwiceDead.1963 said:

    @Turk.5460 said:
    Upon entering combat = if still in combat and cooldown is up, automatically applied again?

    Should be easy enough to test, shouldnt it?
    A bit hard right now with the constant DC's, but I hear a hotfix is in the works.

    Not for another 6 hours 15 minutes for me

    Fort Aspenwood
    Jekkies

  • @Turk.5460 said:

    @TwiceDead.1963 said:

    @Turk.5460 said:
    Upon entering combat = if still in combat and cooldown is up, automatically applied again?

    Should be easy enough to test, shouldnt it?
    A bit hard right now with the constant DC's, but I hear a hotfix is in the works.

    Not for another 6 hours 15 minutes for me

    Oof. I'll see what I can do.

  • Hashberry.4510Hashberry.4510 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 13, 2018

    66 percent swiftness from sigil of speed. I assume you only see that boost in combat?

    Wonderfull effort by ANet, love what you did overall.

  • @LucianDK.8615 said:
    Have you forgotten about Facet of Nature from revenants? Herald revs fell out of meta because classes could cap out on boon duration of their own. Which never should have happened.

    Oh good, we go from 4 locked slots to 6 locked slots. So good right?
    I saw the Renegade was Meta on Dhumm according to SC :shrug:

  • Hesacon.8735Hesacon.8735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Before I only had one or two valid options at runes and now I have dozens of options. I like the changes, except that damage modifiers in wvw were likely not adjusted.

  • Ebonfire.8270Ebonfire.8270 Member ✭✭
    edited November 13, 2018

    The combination of Nightmare and Trapper have been a staple for condi classes, but Nightmare has been changed from general condi duration to Fear duration. Trapper has been improved, but still, the change to Nightmare, given the means to attain it, is kind of uncool.

  • Well, the permanent boons on melee was disgusting. And really the only answer were necros. I'm glad they got rid of that.

  • LucianDK.8615LucianDK.8615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Morte de Angelis.7986 said:

    @LucianDK.8615 said:
    Have you forgotten about Facet of Nature from revenants? Herald revs fell out of meta because classes could cap out on boon duration of their own. Which never should have happened.

    Oh good, we go from 4 locked slots to 6 locked slots. So good right?
    I saw the Renegade was Meta on Dhumm according to SC :shrug:

    Considering the big sale point of facet of nature is boon duration increase for buddies, it renders it completely useless if people can boon duration cap on their own.

  • Naxos.2503Naxos.2503 Member ✭✭✭

    @Mithos.9023 said:
    I have mixed feelings. While the new rune structure looks much cleaner it seems also a lot more boring, as most runes have only one active effect now.
    Not to mention that many changes here are a big downgrade when it comes to this. A +10 % health is nothing compared to what is lost on many runes. Not to mention an active effect would have been much more interesting than a flat health increase, which will probably have zero influence on actual combat.
    But as mentioned the before after patch note made working through it quite easy, thanks for that.
    Last I like the new effect of permanent companion on the runes, seems like fun.

    I agree with that, I feel there is a bit of "special" some of the upgrade components lost post update. Sometime, it's good to have special effects, it makes systems interesting, it gives players more possibilities to have a unique playstyle. Focusing on stats will make "min maxers" players happy, as they value efficiency more than anything. I for my part like "out of the box" builds, and those rely on varieties and possibilities. A sigil to summon on kill was unique

  • @Turk.5460 said:

    @TwiceDead.1963 said:

    @Turk.5460 said:
    Upon entering combat = if still in combat and cooldown is up, automatically applied again?

    Should be easy enough to test, shouldnt it?
    A bit hard right now with the constant DC's, but I hear a hotfix is in the works.

    Not for another 6 hours 15 minutes for me

    I tested Superior Runes of the Pack "Grants Swiftness, Fury and Might for 10 seconds on a 20 sec CD upon entering combat."

    The boons did not re-apply after the initial engagement, even after 20+ seconds. Curiously though, they do apply once you exit combat.
    I tested this running around a wyvern enemy for a minute or more just letting it attack me.

  • Overall, I am liking this change. I haven't gone over all the sigils and runes in the update post yet, just the ones I use. But that led me to discovering that one of the sigils I use was replaced with a version useless to my guardian. I dunno, was I the only one that liked Sigil of Demon Summoning? I liked having the ability to get an ally to help me in combat when I was out soloing. It was a small sacrifice to my overall performance, sure. But, to me, it was worth it when I could have something else to take the aggro.

    While I do like the new Sigil of Demons, it's just completely useless to my guardian.

  • aside from that, is there even content that would make these changes to SIGILS (not saying anything about the runes, those changes are fine) usefull?
    I mean, not even 99cm is -that- hard, that i would considder making an extra ascended weapon on all my characters, just to have sigil of serpent slaying instead of sigil of force.
    meaning, sigil of force will still do 2% more dps than the other sigils that are species specific in 90% of all cases, and im not gonna carry around a different sigil for each different fractal....
    so it would be open world..well, most of the time in open world, even more dps is the last thing you'll need on a random mob...
    (let alone the amount of enemies that have no classified race, or the amount of sigils you would have to carry around just to swap constantly)
    so that only leaves the % chance to do x-effect... well, instead of 60%, its now 100%, meaning its garantueed, you dont have to watch your boon anymore to see IF it procced, it will always procc on your first hit when going into combat.
    again, how does this promote more active gameplay

  • Naxos.2503Naxos.2503 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ebonfire.8270 said:
    The combination of Nightmare and Trapper have been a staple for condi classes, but Nightmare has been changed from general condi duration to Fear duration. Trapper has been improved, but still, the change to Nightmare, given the means to attain it, is kind of uncool.

    Awww man ! I spent a while getting the tokens to kit my Renegade with nightmare runes ! Just a Week ago

  • FaboBabo.3581FaboBabo.3581 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I like most changes and I'm looking forward to check some runes and sigils out.
    On the other hand some things instantly look very strong for me.

    Swiftness movespeed increased to 66% basically gives you perma superspeed amirite?
    many interesting things. 20%heal to Barrier - gotta check out on which things this would block
    5% max health on block - guards say helloooo.

    Much more might generation, which can make interesting builds i guess.

    Looking forward for the dc's to stop so i can start waisting money <3

    Mirage since Day 1 - It got better!

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @LucianDK.8615 said:
    Chronos well deserved a nerf.

    Chronos are going to be perfectly fine. They'll just be forced into chaos even more than before. It's all other potential support options that got the ax, because they will now have to run full support gear and lose all the dps they had.

    Not sure how i feel about the change to sigil of Water however - it's a healer spec sigil, and those usually do not have precision.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

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