Raid DPS Golem Question — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Raid DPS Golem Question

So, I know this may be a silly question but couldn't really find it anywhere but...
I've seen alot of benchmark DPS for raids reaching up to things like 40k or over and whatnot. Which sounds incredibly impressive to me (at least numberwise).

However, what I'm not sure on is if such DPS numbers are PER TICK of the Golem when it reaches its threshold or if its COMBINED from all the ticks until it dies.
Honestly the difference here really makes my morale jump up and down depending on what it goes to.
If it's per tick, I'm honestly baffled how such DPS can be achieved, especially with so many doing so 'casually'. Since even in full zerkers, I feel lacking.

This is also with perks of 25 might, fury, alacrity, 25 vuln and quickness. Just as a standard base since I know the other buffs aren't always reliably there.
If it's per tick, then it's not looking too good for me in raiding in the future lol.

If it is combined though, what is usually an accepted DPS threshold (minimum to meet) to generally be welcomed in most raid groups?
Either way though, thanks for taking the time to read.

Comments

  • Sephylon.4938Sephylon.4938 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Talonblaze.3175 said:
    So, I know this may be a silly question but couldn't really find it anywhere but...
    I've seen alot of benchmark DPS for raids reaching up to things like 40k or over and whatnot. Which sounds incredibly impressive to me (at least numberwise).

    However, what I'm not sure on is if such DPS numbers are PER TICK of the Golem when it reaches its threshold or if its COMBINED from all the ticks until it dies.
    Honestly the difference here really makes my morale jump up and down depending on what it goes to.
    If it's per tick, I'm honestly baffled how such DPS can be achieved, especially with so many doing so 'casually'. Since even in full zerkers, I feel lacking.

    This is also with perks of 25 might, fury, alacrity, 25 vuln and quickness. Just as a standard base since I know the other buffs aren't always reliably there.
    If it's per tick, then it's not looking too good for me in raiding in the future lol.

    If it is combined though, what is usually an accepted DPS threshold (minimum to meet) to generally be welcomed in most raid groups?
    Either way though, thanks for taking the time to read.

    Its the total amount. Average dps is 12- 15k, below 10k=kick

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  • maxwelgm.4315maxwelgm.4315 Member ✭✭✭

    @Talonblaze.3175 said:
    So, I know this may be a silly question but couldn't really find it anywhere but...
    I've seen alot of benchmark DPS for raids reaching up to things like 40k or over and whatnot. Which sounds incredibly impressive to me (at least numberwise).

    However, what I'm not sure on is if such DPS numbers are PER TICK of the Golem when it reaches its threshold or if its COMBINED from all the ticks until it dies.
    Honestly the difference here really makes my morale jump up and down depending on what it goes to.
    If it's per tick, I'm honestly baffled how such DPS can be achieved, especially with so many doing so 'casually'. Since even in full zerkers, I feel lacking.

    This is also with perks of 25 might, fury, alacrity, 25 vuln and quickness. Just as a standard base since I know the other buffs aren't always reliably there.
    If it's per tick, then it's not looking too good for me in raiding in the future lol.

    If it is combined though, what is usually an accepted DPS threshold (minimum to meet) to generally be welcomed in most raid groups?
    Either way though, thanks for taking the time to read.

    You won't have issues completing encounters if arcDPS is showing anywhere from 15k to 20k, even less depending on the encounter. Mechanically heavy fights like Qadim really drop that number down as well due to prolonging the fight with things other than hitting enemies. Mursaat Overseer and arguably Gorseval are the ones where you should be anywhere close to a benchmark, and even then, you can hit anywhere from 18k to 25k in such DPS heavy encounters and still succeed, even if it's KC or Largos. Keep in mind that you will depend on the Chronos, the druids, the BS, and on whoever is performing mechanics so your DPS may vary greatly during actual fights. It might also be that you get top DPS but wipe your team @Dhuum in the last green because you stubbornly didn't revive your green teammate during an unlucky soul split, so don't fret too much about DPS and focus on being a mechanically good player.

  • @maxwelgm.4315 said:
    You won't have issues completing encounters if arcDPS is showing anywhere from 15k to 20k, even less depending on the encounter. Mechanically heavy fights like Qadim really drop that number down as well due to prolonging the fight with things other than hitting enemies. Mursaat Overseer and arguably Gorseval are the ones where you should be anywhere close to a benchmark, and even then, you can hit anywhere from 18k to 25k in such DPS heavy encounters and still succeed, even if it's KC or Largos. Keep in mind that you will depend on the Chronos, the druids, the BS, and on whoever is performing mechanics so your DPS may vary greatly during actual fights. It might also be that you get top DPS but wipe your team @Dhuum in the last green because you stubbornly didn't revive your green teammate during an unlucky soul split, so don't fret too much about DPS and focus on being a mechanically good player.

    I understand that mechanics are very important for sure, you are doing 0 dps if you're dead.
    But it was more of an issue of simply getting into raids overall, since I've seen a couple with DPS entry requirements.
    I was getting 7.5k dps per tick on the golem, but was concerned since most quoted to have their numbers in the double digits like above for 40k.
    So last thing I wanted was to be booted for not meeting expectations of damage before even beginning.
    Hence the inquiry on calculation.

  • maxwelgm.4315maxwelgm.4315 Member ✭✭✭

    @Talonblaze.3175 said:

    @maxwelgm.4315 said:
    You won't have issues completing encounters if arcDPS is showing anywhere from 15k to 20k, even less depending on the encounter. Mechanically heavy fights like Qadim really drop that number down as well due to prolonging the fight with things other than hitting enemies. Mursaat Overseer and arguably Gorseval are the ones where you should be anywhere close to a benchmark, and even then, you can hit anywhere from 18k to 25k in such DPS heavy encounters and still succeed, even if it's KC or Largos. Keep in mind that you will depend on the Chronos, the druids, the BS, and on whoever is performing mechanics so your DPS may vary greatly during actual fights. It might also be that you get top DPS but wipe your team @Dhuum in the last green because you stubbornly didn't revive your green teammate during an unlucky soul split, so don't fret too much about DPS and focus on being a mechanically good player.

    I understand that mechanics are very important for sure, you are doing 0 dps if you're dead.
    But it was more of an issue of simply getting into raids overall, since I've seen a couple with DPS entry requirements.
    I was getting 7.5k dps per tick on the golem, but was concerned since most quoted to have their numbers in the double digits like above for 40k.
    So last thing I wanted was to be booted for not meeting expectations of damage before even beginning.
    Hence the inquiry on calculation.

    As mentioned above, it shows total amount. Which class are you attempting to DPS with? Choosing classes with high benchmarks might not be as rewarding due to the sheer complexity of their rotations (Renegade and Weaver are good examples of this). Go with anything you can do 10k+ with.

  • Sephylon.4938Sephylon.4938 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 15, 2018

    @Talonblaze.3175 said:

    @maxwelgm.4315 said:
    You won't have issues completing encounters if arcDPS is showing anywhere from 15k to 20k, even less depending on the encounter. Mechanically heavy fights like Qadim really drop that number down as well due to prolonging the fight with things other than hitting enemies. Mursaat Overseer and arguably Gorseval are the ones where you should be anywhere close to a benchmark, and even then, you can hit anywhere from 18k to 25k in such DPS heavy encounters and still succeed, even if it's KC or Largos. Keep in mind that you will depend on the Chronos, the druids, the BS, and on whoever is performing mechanics so your DPS may vary greatly during actual fights. It might also be that you get top DPS but wipe your team @Dhuum in the last green because you stubbornly didn't revive your green teammate during an unlucky soul split, so don't fret too much about DPS and focus on being a mechanically good player.

    I understand that mechanics are very important for sure, you are doing 0 dps if you're dead.
    But it was more of an issue of simply getting into raids overall, since I've seen a couple with DPS entry requirements.
    I was getting 7.5k dps per tick on the golem, but was concerned since most quoted to have their numbers in the double digits like above for 40k.
    So last thing I wanted was to be booted for not meeting expectations of damage before even beginning.
    Hence the inquiry on calculation.

    What class are you playing, whats your build, are you following the rotation, and are you using the proper buffs and debuffs?
    Edit
    Post your build from this
    http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/

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  • @maxwelgm.4315 said:
    As mentioned above, it shows total amount. Which class are you attempting to DPS with? Choosing classes with high benchmarks might not be as rewarding due to the sheer complexity of their rotations (Renegade and Weaver are good examples of this). Go with anything you can do 10k+ with.

    I don't run any of the meta stuff, going to be blunt there. But not high cap classes like those two.
    Mostly been running power Reaper (just recently hit 38k on a rough test) and Herald/Jalis. Was planning on trying power thief and perhaps burn engie, but more focused on getting something viable mostly.

    Can't say my rotations are optimal, but not rolling my face across the keyboard either.
    But if 10k -15k is the total to meet, that seems like a pretty low bar to reach for qualifications.

  • Dzjudz.9142Dzjudz.9142 Member ✭✭✭

    @Talonblaze.3175 said:

    @maxwelgm.4315 said:
    As mentioned above, it shows total amount. Which class are you attempting to DPS with? Choosing classes with high benchmarks might not be as rewarding due to the sheer complexity of their rotations (Renegade and Weaver are good examples of this). Go with anything you can do 10k+ with.

    I don't run any of the meta stuff, going to be blunt there. But not high cap classes like those two.
    Mostly been running power Reaper (just recently hit 38k on a rough test) and Herald/Jalis. Was planning on trying power thief and perhaps burn engie, but more focused on getting something viable mostly.

    Can't say my rotations are optimal, but not rolling my face across the keyboard either.
    But if 10k -15k is the total to meet, that seems like a pretty low bar to reach for qualifications.

    38k on a power reaper? Wait, how are you calculating this?

    On the dps golem, your chat should have some numbers, like this:

    https://i.imgur.com/40JR2ob.png

    Those are the numbers at respectively 80%, 60%, 40%, 20% and 0% HP of the golem. You can see my dps starts at 29,947 (almost 30k), and goes down the longer the fight goes on (because the starting burst is higher than the average), resulting in an end average dps of 26,786 (almost 27k). You don't add numbers, the numbers show the average dps up to that point. So the 60% number shows the average dps after the first 40% of the golem HP.

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  • @Dzjudz.9142 said:
    38k on a power reaper? Wait, how are you calculating this?

    On the dps golem, your chat should have some numbers, like this:

    https://i.imgur.com/40JR2ob.png

    Those are the numbers at respectively 80%, 60%, 40%, 20% and 0% HP of the golem. You can see my dps starts at 29,947 (almost 30k), and goes down the longer the fight goes on (because the starting burst is higher than the average), resulting in an end average dps of 26,786 (almost 27k). You don't add numbers, the numbers show the average dps up to that point. So the 60% number shows the average dps after the first 40% of the golem HP.

    That's quite informative, thank you.
    So, I was wrong entirely about the golem's information being shown. It's not cumulative, but separate.
    Disappointing, but at least I can understand the reading of it better.
    So I should have been looking at those as per tick for standalone dps. That's really all I needed to know.

    Might have to resort to some meta builds after all.

  • Try to get to 80% of the benchmark on golem and then you will be more then fine in actual raids.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 16, 2018

    @Talonblaze.3175 said:

    @Dzjudz.9142 said:
    38k on a power reaper? Wait, how are you calculating this?

    On the dps golem, your chat should have some numbers, like this:

    https://i.imgur.com/40JR2ob.png

    Those are the numbers at respectively 80%, 60%, 40%, 20% and 0% HP of the golem. You can see my dps starts at 29,947 (almost 30k), and goes down the longer the fight goes on (because the starting burst is higher than the average), resulting in an end average dps of 26,786 (almost 27k). You don't add numbers, the numbers show the average dps up to that point. So the 60% number shows the average dps after the first 40% of the golem HP.

    That's quite informative, thank you.
    So, I was wrong entirely about the golem's information being shown. It's not cumulative, but separate.
    Disappointing, but at least I can understand the reading of it better.
    So I should have been looking at those as per tick for standalone dps. That's really all I needed to know.

    Might have to resort to some meta builds after all.

    Make sure you are setup properly first:

    1.) use correct food and utility (yes even when trying on the golem once you want to see your peak performance)
    2.) setup the conditions, 25 weakness is usually given
    3.) setup your boons, 25 might, fury, quickness and alacrity, potentially all the boons on some classes where traits increase damage based on boons
    4.) add class unique buffs even if the game warns you about adding them

    Now practice your rotation. That is the basic setup people use to see how they perform as damage dealer.

    There are reasons to not activate certain buffs and boons, but that has more to do with testing builds and things. For a regular Joe who just wants to practice his dps rotation this setup is fine.

    If you are still far off from the meta performance (and you very well might be unless you are semi experienced at your class and making builds) read up and see what meta builds do differently (and try to understand why). Then adapt your build as much as needed. There is no need to go full meta, some optimization is usually fine unless you just want to copy a meta build.

  • Nephalem.8921Nephalem.8921 Member ✭✭✭

    @Talonblaze.3175 said:

    However, what I'm not sure on is if such DPS numbers are PER TICK of the Golem when it reaches its threshold or if its COMBINED from all the ticks until it dies.

    You use most of the time the end number of a 4 million hp golem. Benchmark videos show also previous percentages to show burst or how long condis need to ramp up.

    If it is combined though, what is usually an accepted DPS threshold (minimum to meet) to generally be welcomed in most raid groups?

    Power reaper has terrible benchmark dps so you have to know how to play to be accepted into raids. Autoattacking thief does basically same dps as a reaper with a good rotation. At least the reaper rotation is not that hard.
    There is currently just one build being able to reach 40k dps and that is never played in raids because it really only works on the golem.
    Most of the builds do 33k-37k on the golem. Try to hit 28k on the golem and you will be fine.

  • Henry.5713Henry.5713 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 16, 2018

    New players, or those new to raids, are often misled by single Skills dealing high damage or by how the game accumilates numbers of multi-hit skills such as Hundred Blades. That 120k seems impressive on first glance but it happens over multiple seconds and your damage drops off heavily once you have used your one hard hitting skill. This is the reason why some builds work in situations where you need quick burst over a few seconds while they aren't too impressive in raids where phases usually take much longer (especially if the overall damage is quite low).

    These DPS numbers (damage per second) are nothing more than all of the combined damage you dish out ON AVERAGE PER SECOND over something like a minute. So, yes they are dealing 40k damage every second on that golem. Which is certainly impressive but will never happen in actual raids but you should still aim to do like 30k+ DPS on some of the more golem-like bosses such as MO.
    Don't let this discourage you. Everyone had to start somewhere. Rather use it as a goal to improve and don't forget that nobody will ever ask you to perform perfect benchmark DPS outside of some of the most hardcore groups.

    Nothing is particularly hard if you divide it into small jobs. Henry Ford

  • Turin.6921Turin.6921 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 23, 2018

    @Talonblaze.3175 said:
    That's quite informative, thank you.
    So, I was wrong entirely about the golem's information being shown. It's not cumulative, but separate.
    Disappointing, but at least I can understand the reading of it better.
    So I should have been looking at those as per tick for standalone dps. That's really all I needed to know.

    Might have to resort to some meta builds after all.

    There is a reason why meta is meta...As a small clarification: All the benchmarks consider the last value (the dps at 0%) when reporting the benchmark. So when you usually hear a value as a benchmarks its that one. If you can get yourself around the 80% of the benchmark it is more than enough to be useful on a raids scenario.

    As for the DPs per bosses things are always very different than in the golem. Every bosses has different mechanics, different defense stats burn phases and so on. Some of the meta sites have average dps per boss per class but they are not always updated and these tend to be done by really hardcore players that perform way better than the average. The best way to track yourself during bosses is to use a dps meter and compare your self to other players. A good resource is also youtube that ppl post their bosses runs with the dps meter visible. There you tend to have player from the whole spectrum.

  • ArthurDent.9538ArthurDent.9538 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dzjudz.9142 said:

    @Talonblaze.3175 said:

    @maxwelgm.4315 said:
    As mentioned above, it shows total amount. Which class are you attempting to DPS with? Choosing classes with high benchmarks might not be as rewarding due to the sheer complexity of their rotations (Renegade and Weaver are good examples of this). Go with anything you can do 10k+ with.

    I don't run any of the meta stuff, going to be blunt there. But not high cap classes like those two.
    Mostly been running power Reaper (just recently hit 38k on a rough test) and Herald/Jalis. Was planning on trying power thief and perhaps burn engie, but more focused on getting something viable mostly.

    Can't say my rotations are optimal, but not rolling my face across the keyboard either.
    But if 10k -15k is the total to meet, that seems like a pretty low bar to reach for qualifications.

    38k on a power reaper? Wait, how are you calculating this?

    On the dps golem, your chat should have some numbers, like this:

    https://i.imgur.com/40JR2ob.png

    Those are the numbers at respectively 80%, 60%, 40%, 20% and 0% HP of the golem. You can see my dps starts at 29,947 (almost 30k), and goes down the longer the fight goes on (because the starting burst is higher than the average), resulting in an end average dps of 26,786 (almost 27k). You don't add numbers, the numbers show the average dps up to that point. So the 60% number shows the average dps after the first 40% of the golem HP.

    38k power reaper is probably using all buffs and all conditions while using the trait Dread, which gives 30% more damage to feared foes. Dread isn't used in standard benchmarks because high fear uptimes aren't viable outside the training golem.

  • yann.1946yann.1946 Member ✭✭✭

    @ArthurDent.9538 said:

    @Dzjudz.9142 said:

    @Talonblaze.3175 said:

    @maxwelgm.4315 said:
    As mentioned above, it shows total amount. Which class are you attempting to DPS with? Choosing classes with high benchmarks might not be as rewarding due to the sheer complexity of their rotations (Renegade and Weaver are good examples of this). Go with anything you can do 10k+ with.

    I don't run any of the meta stuff, going to be blunt there. But not high cap classes like those two.
    Mostly been running power Reaper (just recently hit 38k on a rough test) and Herald/Jalis. Was planning on trying power thief and perhaps burn engie, but more focused on getting something viable mostly.

    Can't say my rotations are optimal, but not rolling my face across the keyboard either.
    But if 10k -15k is the total to meet, that seems like a pretty low bar to reach for qualifications.

    38k on a power reaper? Wait, how are you calculating this?

    On the dps golem, your chat should have some numbers, like this:

    https://i.imgur.com/40JR2ob.png

    Those are the numbers at respectively 80%, 60%, 40%, 20% and 0% HP of the golem. You can see my dps starts at 29,947 (almost 30k), and goes down the longer the fight goes on (because the starting burst is higher than the average), resulting in an end average dps of 26,786 (almost 27k). You don't add numbers, the numbers show the average dps up to that point. So the 60% number shows the average dps after the first 40% of the golem HP.

    38k power reaper is probably using all buffs and all conditions while using the trait Dread, which gives 30% more damage to feared foes. Dread isn't used in standard benchmarks because high fear uptimes aren't viable outside the training golem.

    The op said he added all the dps numbers that's where the confusion came from.

  • didn't realize DPS was a thing in Guild Wars?

    ......what's the highest dps in gw2 and which class?

  • Sephylon.4938Sephylon.4938 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cedric Ambidexter.9174 said:
    didn't realize DPS was a thing in Guild Wars?

    ......what's the highest dps in gw2 and which class?

    https://snowcrows.com/benchmarks/

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