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DPS shaming


HnRkLnXqZ.1870

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Are players allowed to shame others for their DPS in /say, /party, /squad, /team, /map, /whisper ... etc. with the use of the data they receive from a dps-meter?

With reference to Guild Wars 2 Rules of Conduct:

  1. While playing Guild Wars 2, you must respect the rights of others and their rights to play and enjoy the Game. To this end, you may not defraud, harass, threaten, embarrass or cause distress and/or unwanted attention to other players. This includes posting insulting, offensive, or abusive comments about players, repeatedly sending unwanted messages, reporting players maliciously, attacking a player based on race, sexual orientation, religion, heritage, etc. Hate speech is not tolerated.

Do the Rules of Conduct apply to this special situation, or is there a rule that allows this behavior?

Example:"Player X what are you doing? Your DPS is ridiculously low? Seriously 3k? Are you playing on support? The thief over there does 13k!"

Allowed or not?

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No, you shouldn't be a jerk with the information it provides and it is grounds for a report if you're abused over it. DPS meters are in a gray area of permissibility and players shouldn't screw that up by being jerks with them.

Conversely however if you're playing a class that should be doing far more damage/healing/etc and you join a group asking for experience in a specific role and you are not fulfilling that role either due to inexperience or incompetence, you have no grounds to argue should/when they kick you over it.

Lying about your experience or ability isn't exactly kosher either and will endear you to no one.

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@"HnRkLnXqZ.1870" said:Are players allowed to shame others for their DPS in /say, /party, /squad, /team, /map, /whisper ... etc. with the use of the data they receive from a dps-meter?

With reference to Guild Wars 2 Rules of Conduct:

  1. While playing Guild Wars 2, you must respect the rights of others and their rights to play and enjoy the Game. To this end,
    you may not
    defraud, harass,
    threaten, embarrass
    or
    cause distress and/or unwanted attention to other players
    . This includes posting insulting, offensive, or abusive comments about players, repeatedly sending unwanted messages, reporting players maliciously, attacking a player based on race, sexual orientation, religion, heritage, etc. Hate speech is not tolerated.

Do the Rules of Conduct apply to this special situation, or is there a rule that allows this behavior?

Example:"Player X what are you doing? Your DPS is ridiculously low? Seriously 3k? Are you playing on support? The thief over there does 13k!"

Allowed or not?

This topic and the rhetoric around it becomes more stale every time it is posted.

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Technically speaking, regardless of reason, Harassement is considered bannable/warn offense. So you can report the person normally.

That said, specifically speaking, ANET has, as far I am aware off, not created any specific rules that DPS Shaming as bannable. That said the act of shaming is bannable in itself.

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@"HnRkLnXqZ.1870" said:"Player X what are you doing? Your DPS is ridiculously low? Seriously 3k? Are you playing on support? The thief over there does 13k!"

Allowed or not?

Allowed.It's no different than someone saying, "Player X why didn't you CC? Why don't you know what CC is? Are you new?"Basically, you're asking whether ANet should punish people for being rude; they don't and they won't.

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I don't see calling out someone for their low dps as being insulting, offensive or abusing.

@"SoulSin.5682" said:Technically speaking, regardless of reason, Harassement is considered bannable/warn offense. So you can report the person normally.

How is calling out someone that is doing terrible dps "harassment"?How is the question provided by the OP: ""Player X what are you doing? Your DPS is ridiculously low? Seriously 3k? Are you playing on support? The thief over there does 13k!" harassment?

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@"HnRkLnXqZ.1870" said:Are players allowed to shame others for their DPS in /say, /party, /squad, /team, /map, /whisper ... etc. with the use of the data they receive from a dps-meter?

With reference to Guild Wars 2 Rules of Conduct:

  1. While playing Guild Wars 2, you must respect the rights of others and their rights to play and enjoy the Game. To this end,
    you may not
    defraud, harass,
    threaten, embarrass
    or
    cause distress and/or unwanted attention to other players
    . This includes posting insulting, offensive, or abusive comments about players, repeatedly sending unwanted messages, reporting players maliciously, attacking a player based on race, sexual orientation, religion, heritage, etc. Hate speech is not tolerated.

Do the Rules of Conduct apply to this special situation, or is there a rule that allows this behavior?

Example:"Player X what are you doing? Your DPS is ridiculously low? Seriously 3k? Are you playing on support? The thief over there does 13k!"

Allowed or not?

Yes. People are allowed to draw attention to group members who aren't pulling their weight. Because it's everybody's business. Don't like it? Leave, and join another group.

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@Deimos.4263 said:

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:Basically, you're asking whether ANet should punish people for being rude; they don't and they won't.

They can and they should, at least according to their own ToS. You can inform a player their DPS is sub-par without being rude about it. It is possible.

There are ways to call people out on their performance. The second it goes from hey tighten up those rotations to your a fucking idiot, is where I would be sending a report.

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Some people in this thread are missing the point but then again this is the raids forum and as usual the forum format prohibits discussions that are not one-sided.

Of the many possible interactions regarding dealing with an underperforming player, publicly calling them out in a rude away (see Deimos' post above) is a direct violation of Anet's own RoC, and yes this includes OP's example. This is clearly defined by Anet's wording and does not need to account for any sentiment we might have about it (i.e if you don't mind being called out in a rude way in public, It doesn't matter, as collective rules cannot base themselves on your personal feelings or lack thereof). There are other ways to deal with that which are quite time consuming in comparison, like whispering the person and asking if they are willing to inform their traits and if they can at least explain the gist of their rotation if they are even doing any. If they are not ideal it also doesn't matter because they are ways that nevertheless do not violate GW2 rules of conduct.

With this said, OP should also consider that Anet has limited power and probably limited willingness to actually intervene in player interactions. In designing raids they had to throw out one of their designing cornerstones out the window, which was "you should never feel bad for seeing another player". This intent is still seen in raids but it now has the caveat of "you should never feel bad for seeing a good player". This is required for the content to be anywhere near "challenging" in any sense and so they were probably aware of the distress it would cause here or there to many people. In short, I don't believe most of these cases will ever get addressed, but if they did it would probably leave a bitter taste in what has come to be the raiding community, because after all, and as OP can clearly see, what he [and Anet's own rule of conduct] considers to be bad behavior, is actually the norm in here.

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@maddoctor.2738 said:I don't see calling out someone for their low dps as being insulting, offensive or abusing.

@"SoulSin.5682" said:Technically speaking, regardless of reason, Harassement is considered bannable/warn offense. So you can report the person normally.

How is calling out someone that is doing terrible dps "harassment"?How is the question provided by the OP: ""Player X what are you doing? Your DPS is ridiculously low? Seriously 3k? Are you playing on support? The thief over there does 13k!" harassment?

For some people, this is indeed harassment.

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@Deimos.4263 said:

@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:Basically, you're asking whether ANet should punish people for being rude; they don't and they won't.

They can and they should, at least according to their own ToS.

No, that's not what their own ToS says. ANet GM's aren't authorized members of the etiquette police. Being rude is a far step from "personal attacks or harassment." It might make someone a bad person to be rude; it doesn't mean that ANet is going to suspend them from the game.

You can inform a player their DPS is sub-par without being rude about it. It is possible.Of course. I don't think that's in dispute. That's not the question, however.

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i guess you don't understand english and can't read properly. pointing out your bad gameplay (pointing the truth why raid boss is slow and wipes the group and drags the team down) isn't shaming. if people play however they want, they can just ruin raids, fracs, dungeons etc however they want and people should respect that? if you play in a team and your goal is to win and some feeder always drag down the team and the team loses cuz of under performing would you respect him? or point out the obvious, either he improves and if he doesn't want to improve he shouldn't play with the team.

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@SoulSin.5682 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:I don't see calling out someone for their low dps as being insulting, offensive or abusing.

@SoulSin.5682 said:Technically speaking, regardless of reason, Harassement is considered bannable/warn offense. So you can report the person normally.

How is calling out someone that is doing terrible dps "harassment"?How is the question provided by the OP: ""Player X what are you doing? Your DPS is ridiculously low? Seriously 3k? Are you playing on support? The thief over there does 13k!" harassment?

For some people, this is indeed harassment.

For some people, those doing 3k dps and ruining runs are also harassing the group with their incompetence.

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You know if person would doing 8-10k I would agree with you it sounds offensive, let me explain, we all were new and messed up build/rotation, simply didn't have enough experience etc. But 3k is just slaking on your class, on your build, on rotation, on general knowledge of fight mech.

It's like saying others 'carry me, your peasants while my highness slacks '

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@maxwelgm.4315 said:Of the many possible interactions regarding dealing with an underperforming player, publicly calling them out in a rude away (see Deimos' post above) is a direct violation of Anet's own RoC, and yes this includes OP's example.

I was in a group for Matthias once, asked for an experienced person to fill the last spot, got a Thief that pinged 250 Li (once, I should've known by then that one ping means nothing), and during the fight they didn't know how to cleanse, instead they stayed on the group and caused a wipe. Should I've been polite towards that person? No, he didn't deserve it, I pointed out that they were a cheat, a fraud and a liar, then simply kicked them. Was he polite towards me? Of course not, his behavior was abusive and insulting towards me and the rest of my group, by Anet's raw definition he should've been reported and banned. If you want to ban people for being rude by dps shaming, let's ban people for lying, pinging Li to join groups they don't deserve, and being really rude towards other players too. That's way worse than dps shaming.

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