DPS shaming — Guild Wars 2 Forums

DPS shaming

Are players allowed to shame others for their DPS in /say, /party, /squad, /team, /map, /whisper ... etc. with the use of the data they receive from a dps-meter?

With reference to Guild Wars 2 Rules of Conduct:

  1. While playing Guild Wars 2, you must respect the rights of others and their rights to play and enjoy the Game. To this end, you may not defraud, harass, threaten, embarrass or cause distress and/or unwanted attention to other players. This includes posting insulting, offensive, or abusive comments about players, repeatedly sending unwanted messages, reporting players maliciously, attacking a player based on race, sexual orientation, religion, heritage, etc. Hate speech is not tolerated.

Do the Rules of Conduct apply to this special situation, or is there a rule that allows this behavior?

Example:
"Player X what are you doing? Your DPS is ridiculously low? Seriously 3k? Are you playing on support? The thief over there does 13k!"

Allowed or not?

Knowlege is power, but without fame you are just a maniac. Keep scrolling, this is not the information you are looking for.
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Comments

  • Blocki.4931Blocki.4931 Member ✭✭✭✭

    People want to beat content and move on. If somebody is severely underperforming they are a liability to the entire group and that's not something they need to accept.

    Logging out forever.

  • @HnRkLnXqZ.1870 said:
    Are players allowed to shame others for their DPS in /say, /party, /squad, /team, /map, /whisper ... etc. with the use of the data they receive from a dps-meter?

    With reference to Guild Wars 2 Rules of Conduct:

    1. While playing Guild Wars 2, you must respect the rights of others and their rights to play and enjoy the Game. To this end, you may not defraud, harass, threaten, embarrass or cause distress and/or unwanted attention to other players. This includes posting insulting, offensive, or abusive comments about players, repeatedly sending unwanted messages, reporting players maliciously, attacking a player based on race, sexual orientation, religion, heritage, etc. Hate speech is not tolerated.

    Do the Rules of Conduct apply to this special situation, or is there a rule that allows this behavior?

    Example:
    "Player X what are you doing? Your DPS is ridiculously low? Seriously 3k? Are you playing on support? The thief over there does 13k!"

    Allowed or not?

    This topic and the rhetoric around it becomes more stale every time it is posted.

  • this might apply if someone repeatedly sends another messages even after that person leaves the party.

  • SoulSin.5682SoulSin.5682 Member ✭✭✭

    Technically speaking, regardless of reason, Harassement is considered bannable/warn offense. So you can report the person normally.

    That said, specifically speaking, ANET has, as far I am aware off, not created any specific rules that DPS Shaming as bannable. That said the act of shaming is bannable in itself.

  • Fallesafe.5932Fallesafe.5932 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 17, 2018

    @HnRkLnXqZ.1870 said:
    Are players allowed to shame others for their DPS in /say, /party, /squad, /team, /map, /whisper ... etc. with the use of the data they receive from a dps-meter?

    With reference to Guild Wars 2 Rules of Conduct:

    1. While playing Guild Wars 2, you must respect the rights of others and their rights to play and enjoy the Game. To this end, you may not defraud, harass, threaten, embarrass or cause distress and/or unwanted attention to other players. This includes posting insulting, offensive, or abusive comments about players, repeatedly sending unwanted messages, reporting players maliciously, attacking a player based on race, sexual orientation, religion, heritage, etc. Hate speech is not tolerated.

    Do the Rules of Conduct apply to this special situation, or is there a rule that allows this behavior?

    Example:
    "Player X what are you doing? Your DPS is ridiculously low? Seriously 3k? Are you playing on support? The thief over there does 13k!"

    Allowed or not?

    Yes. People are allowed to draw attention to group members who aren't pulling their weight. Because it's everybody's business. Don't like it? Leave, and join another group.

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Deimos.4263 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:
    Basically, you're asking whether ANet should punish people for being rude; they don't and they won't.

    They can and they should, at least according to their own ToS. You can inform a player their DPS is sub-par without being rude about it. It is possible.

    There are ways to call people out on their performance. The second it goes from hey tighten up those rotations to your a kitten idiot, is where I would be sending a report.

  • maxwelgm.4315maxwelgm.4315 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 17, 2018

    Some people in this thread are missing the point but then again this is the raids forum and as usual the forum format prohibits discussions that are not one-sided.

    Of the many possible interactions regarding dealing with an underperforming player, publicly calling them out in a rude away (see Deimos' post above) is a direct violation of Anet's own RoC, and yes this includes OP's example. This is clearly defined by Anet's wording and does not need to account for any sentiment we might have about it (i.e if you don't mind being called out in a rude way in public, It doesn't matter, as collective rules cannot base themselves on your personal feelings or lack thereof). There are other ways to deal with that which are quite time consuming in comparison, like whispering the person and asking if they are willing to inform their traits and if they can at least explain the gist of their rotation if they are even doing any. If they are not ideal it also doesn't matter because they are ways that nevertheless do not violate GW2 rules of conduct.

    With this said, OP should also consider that Anet has limited power and probably limited willingness to actually intervene in player interactions. In designing raids they had to throw out one of their designing cornerstones out the window, which was "you should never feel bad for seeing another player". This intent is still seen in raids but it now has the caveat of "you should never feel bad for seeing a good player". This is required for the content to be anywhere near "challenging" in any sense and so they were probably aware of the distress it would cause here or there to many people. In short, I don't believe most of these cases will ever get addressed, but if they did it would probably leave a bitter taste in what has come to be the raiding community, because after all, and as OP can clearly see, what he [and Anet's own rule of conduct] considers to be bad behavior, is actually the norm in here.

  • SoulSin.5682SoulSin.5682 Member ✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    I don't see calling out someone for their low dps as being insulting, offensive or abusing.

    @SoulSin.5682 said:
    Technically speaking, regardless of reason, Harassement is considered bannable/warn offense. So you can report the person normally.

    How is calling out someone that is doing terrible dps "harassment"?
    How is the question provided by the OP: ""Player X what are you doing? Your DPS is ridiculously low? Seriously 3k? Are you playing on support? The thief over there does 13k!" harassment?

    For some people, this is indeed harassment.

  • @Deimos.4263 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:
    Basically, you're asking whether ANet should punish people for being rude; they don't and they won't.

    They can and they should, at least according to their own ToS.

    No, that's not what their own ToS says. ANet GM's aren't authorized members of the etiquette police. Being rude is a far step from "personal attacks or harassment." It might make someone a bad person to be rude; it doesn't mean that ANet is going to suspend them from the game.

    You can inform a player their DPS is sub-par without being rude about it. It is possible.

    Of course. I don't think that's in dispute. That's not the question, however.

    "With great power comes not-so-great utility bills."

  • Pro tips :read LFG
    -T4 Chill you can't be blamed because of your dps
    -T4+CM= elitist if you're dps is bad DON'T JOIN!!!
    Problem solved

  • Draco.9480Draco.9480 Member ✭✭✭

    i guess you don't understand english and can't read properly. pointing out your bad gameplay (pointing the truth why raid boss is slow and wipes the group and drags the team down) isn't shaming. if people play however they want, they can just ruin raids, fracs, dungeons etc however they want and people should respect that? if you play in a team and your goal is to win and some feeder always drag down the team and the team loses cuz of under performing would you respect him? or point out the obvious, either he improves and if he doesn't want to improve he shouldn't play with the team.

  • @Blocki.4931 said:
    People want to beat content and move on. If somebody is severely underperforming they are a liability to the entire group and that's not something they need to accept.

    You're wrong.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @SoulSin.5682 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    I don't see calling out someone for their low dps as being insulting, offensive or abusing.

    @SoulSin.5682 said:
    Technically speaking, regardless of reason, Harassement is considered bannable/warn offense. So you can report the person normally.

    How is calling out someone that is doing terrible dps "harassment"?
    How is the question provided by the OP: ""Player X what are you doing? Your DPS is ridiculously low? Seriously 3k? Are you playing on support? The thief over there does 13k!" harassment?

    For some people, this is indeed harassment.

    For some people, those doing 3k dps and ruining runs are also harassing the group with their incompetence.

  • phs.6089phs.6089 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 18, 2018

    You know if person would doing 8-10k I would agree with you it sounds offensive, let me explain, we all were new and messed up build/rotation, simply didn't have enough experience etc. But 3k is just slaking on your class, on your build, on rotation, on general knowledge of fight mech.

    It's like saying others 'carry me, your peasants while my highness slacks '

    I dream of elves in GW2.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @maxwelgm.4315 said:
    Of the many possible interactions regarding dealing with an underperforming player, publicly calling them out in a rude away (see Deimos' post above) is a direct violation of Anet's own RoC, and yes this includes OP's example.

    I was in a group for Matthias once, asked for an experienced person to fill the last spot, got a Thief that pinged 250 Li (once, I should've known by then that one ping means nothing), and during the fight they didn't know how to cleanse, instead they stayed on the group and caused a wipe. Should I've been polite towards that person? No, he didn't deserve it, I pointed out that they were a cheat, a fraud and a liar, then simply kicked them. Was he polite towards me? Of course not, his behavior was abusive and insulting towards me and the rest of my group, by Anet's raw definition he should've been reported and banned. If you want to ban people for being rude by dps shaming, let's ban people for lying, pinging Li to join groups they don't deserve, and being really rude towards other players too. That's way worse than dps shaming.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:
    Well if this is shaming then instead of saying anything i will kick those players now.

    Then they will come on the forums and complain that they get kicked from groups without an explanation.

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 22, 2018

    The bar for entry for raids is pretty low tbh.

    I stand with Mo.

  • HnRkLnXqZ.1870HnRkLnXqZ.1870 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 19, 2018

    About that example: Fractal T4 Dailies + Rec + Chilled
    The accuser joined the party, he did not create it. We did the first fractal about 2/3 and then he started to flag a player by publicly talking about his/her dps performance in the way I showed above.

    I know that the professionals of you do not see the fractals as a place where peak-performance is required. It was unnecessary, we lost about 5-6 minutes overall completion time of the entire run for having that person in the group. Not a single wipe or death.

    About the question in general:
    You have an advantage to everyone in the group who is not actively running ArcDPS. A third eye if you say so that can see beyond the player-characters. As far as I remember, you mostly argument that it is for self-optimization and self-tracking, yet it has a function to track other players performance as well. Everyone is free to use a dps-meter. Everyone is free to use afk-farming. Everyone is free to play the market. ... etc. The thing is, if everyone does what everyone is allowed to, this place will not be so nice anymore. You do not care about that, but deep inside you know it.

    ANet does not want to act in this case. So most of you think that you can do whatever you want. The majority of you is equipped with common sense and would not dare to mess around like a maniac. But some people see the dps-meter as a police-badge on their chest. Same issue we have in several countries with the dash-cams in cars.

    It would be nice to have an ArcDPS rule package, officially licensed. Even a recommendation-package would be nice. But at the moment, all we have is "ANet allowed the use of ArcDPS" and that is it. A free pass to get crazy with the scanning. If the Rules of Conduct apply to ArcDPS, what should be the case. We would have a base of discussion.

    You fear the restrictions would limit your abilities and ruin your elite-experience in the only real group-content this game has to offer. Agreed, I do not want to ruin that. There is a simple way to solve that and grant you the right to be as professional as you want to be:

    Just upload a text on metabattle, call it Terms of Efficiency - T0E. Write in all the things you feel are common standard for a good, efficient group-experience. And put T0E inside your LFG descriptions. Everyone who joins your parties either agrees to the T0E, or will ask what it is about. You can either explain it, or link to it and then people can decide before the run if they really want to go through that.

    Knowlege is power, but without fame you are just a maniac. Keep scrolling, this is not the information you are looking for.
  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @HnRkLnXqZ.1870 said:
    Just upload a text on metabattle, call it Terms of Efficiency - T0E. Write in all the things you feel are common standard for a good, efficient group-experience. And put T0E inside your LFG descriptions. Everyone who joins your parties either agrees to the T0E, or will ask what it is about. You can either explain it, or link to it and then people can decide before the run if they really want to go through that.

    Or simply add the word "experienced" in your LFG description and expect actually experienced people to join. "Experience" is common sense and a person doing 3k is not exactly experienced, more like a freeloader.

  • Deepcuts.9740Deepcuts.9740 Member ✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    Or simply add the word "experienced" in your LFG description and expect actually experienced people to join. "Experience" is common sense and a person doing 3k is not exactly experienced, more like a freeloader.

    Tried that when I was completing my dungeon collections.
    There were always fresh new accounts (under 500AP) joining without any experience. When asked to leave, they were not responding in party chat at all. That is not until they were kicked, then they would suddenly learn english and would start cursing on /w
    Text on LFG means nothing to many people. They payed for a game and want to enjoy the game their own way, without considering they are playing it with other human beings.
    I joined many carry groups for raids, fractals and dungeons where people specifically stated if we are ok with a carry for a friend. Was ok with me.
    Then there are people who just hide behind the "I will not respond to party chat. Maybe they will not notice me". And "If they ask me anything, I will just post in forums that I was harassed"
    Imagine these kind of people reacting the same way at their jobs. HR would be sued daily.

  • Blocki.4931Blocki.4931 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @The Bassist.5410 said:

    @Blocki.4931 said:
    People want to beat content and move on. If somebody is severely underperforming they are a liability to the entire group and that's not something they need to accept.

    You're wrong.

    How so? And why haven't you offered to carry me through raids while I place banners and afk yet?

    Is it because I don't deal enough DPS?

    Try being constructive if you disagree with something at least.

    Logging out forever.

  • kasoki.5180kasoki.5180 Member ✭✭✭

    @Linken.6345 said:
    Pointing out that your underpreforiming is shaming now, were have the world gone.
    Start your own squad/parties with no dps meters in lfg and play with like minded people mate.

    To be fair its about how it was said, and not about the gist of the message. There are countless ways you can tell someone that they are underperforming, publicly shaming them is just one of them.

    Its about how you say it, not what you say.

  • Vinceman.4572Vinceman.4572 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 18, 2018

    @HnRkLnXqZ.1870 said:
    About that example: Fractal T4 Dailies + Rec + Chilled
    The accuser joined the party, he did not create it. We did the first fractal about 2/3 and then he started to flag a player by publicly talking about his/her dps performance in the way I showed above.

    Your answer should have been: Hey dude, maybe you misread the lfg. It's a chilled run. We don't care about the best performance." Trust me, this guy would have either left the group or started being silent. A tiny minority would still curse around and gives a clear reason of being kicked by the other members of the group.
    Life is too short to care about such situations longer than really needed.

  • Following your logic, telling people they have no clothes on them should be also some kind of shaming.
    Basically if you were to fulfill requirements of people you want to team up with there would be no 'shaming'

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 18, 2018

    @HnRkLnXqZ.1870 said:
    Snip
    About the question in general:
    You have an advantage to everyone in the group who is not actively running ArcDPS. A third eye if you say so that can see beyond the player-characters. As far as I remember, you mostly argument that it is for self-optimization and self-tracking, yet it has a function to track other players performance as well. Everyone is free to use a dps-meter. ~~Everyone is free to use afk-farming.~~ Everyone is free to play the market.
    Snip

    All fine and dandy except your wrong about one of those afk farming is not allowed.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 18, 2018

    @Vinceman.4572 said:

    @HnRkLnXqZ.1870 said:
    About that example: Fractal T4 Dailies + Rec + Chilled
    The accuser joined the party, he did not create it. We did the first fractal about 2/3 and then he started to flag a player by publicly talking about his/her dps performance in the way I showed above.

    Your answer should have been: Hey dude, maybe you misread the lfg. It's a chilled run. We don't care about the best performance." Trust me, this guy would have either left the group or started being silent. A tiny minority would still curse around and gives a clear reason of being kicked by the other members of the group.
    Life is too short to care about such situations longer than really needed.

    This.

    @ TC
    You could have also mutually kicked the new player.

    Instead you let him be and later you come to the forum asking for Arenanet to step in on something you had control over.

    I will agree though that it is insane to call people out among PUG groups. I generally simply excuse myself if the group is terrible (as in all 4 other members are clearly clueless) and leave. Or if someone starts harassing one of the group members while himself being poor performance wise, I might take a look at arc and see if this person should be mouthing off.

  • @HnRkLnXqZ.1870 said:
    About that example: Fractal T4 Dailies + Rec + Chilled
    The accuser joined the party, he did not create it. We did the first fractal about 2/3 and then he started to flag a player by publicly talking about his/her dps performance in the way I showed above.

    Why would ANet need to be involved? You had the option of kicking them for undermining the party.

    I know that the professionals of you do not see the fractals as a place where peak-performance is required. It was unnecessary, we lost about 5-6 minutes overall completion time of the entire run for having that person in the group. Not a single wipe or death.

    In that case, their attitude was the liability, not anyone's DPS.

    You have an advantage to everyone in the group who is not actively running ArcDPS. A third eye if you say so that can see beyond the player-characters. As far as I remember, you mostly argument that it is for self-optimization and self-tracking, yet it has a function to track other players performance as well. Everyone is free to use a dps-meter. Everyone is free to use afk-farming. Everyone is free to play the market. ... etc. The thing is, if everyone does what everyone is allowed to, this place will not be so nice anymore. You do not care about that, but deep inside you know it.

    On the contrary, I completely disagree. You've conflated a bunch of ideas and tried to draw a conclusion from facts not in evidence.

    • If everyone self-optimized (never gonna happen, but we can pretend), then everyone's performance would improve, the "bottom" would rise, coming closer to the middle. People who are adequate wouldn't try to group with people who are in the top 5%. On the whole, I'd expect a happier community.
    • If everyone played the market (again, never happening) then prices would largely be lower (speculation and flipping would be much much much less lucrative). Again, people would be more satisfied with the situation because they would understand what's going on.
    • No one is free to AFK-farm; it's against the rules. If everyone did inattentive farming, then the markets would go up because there would be a lot fewer mats entering the economy, because it's highly inefficient. Or if you mean people farming inattentively in addition to whatever they are doing, no, not going to happen because it's too dull for most people.
    • And finally, you've somehow assumed that "doing what one is allowed to do" is somehow inherently bad. There's no evidence of that.

    ANet does not want to act in this case. So most of you think that you can do whatever you want.

    "Most of you" ? That's a completely unsupported statement. It's a fact that some people are jerks. Why does it surprise anyone that some people who use DPS meters are, too? It's not the DPS meter that is the problem; jerks found ways to be annoying even before DPS meters were available.

    But some people see the dps-meter as a police-badge on their chest.

    Yes, some people. Why would you keep playing with those people?

    It would be nice to have an ArcDPS rule package, officially licensed. Even a recommendation-package would be nice.

    Explain how that would change anything. How would that prevent jerks from being jerks?

    A free pass to get crazy with the scanning. If the Rules of Conduct apply to ArcDPS, what should be the case. We would have a base of discussion.

    The rules of conduct apply to one's conduct in the game. Telling someone their DPS isn't against the rules. Being rude isn't against the rules. Calling someone names is, regardless of the reasons behind it.

    You fear the restrictions would limit your abilities

    What restrictions are you talking about? Are you asking ANet to get into the etiquette business? How would they even enforce it? Are you recommending that no one be allowed to mention DPS? That would be a massive reversal of ANet's opinion that combat data isn't private, it's not protected..

    and ruin your elite-experience in the only real group-content this game has to offer.

    No, again, you've jumped to a conclusion based on some inadequate assumptions.

    Just upload a text on metabattle, call it Terms of Efficiency - T0E. Write in all the things you feel are common standard for a good, efficient group-experience. And put T0E inside your LFG descriptions. Everyone who joins your parties either agrees to the T0E, or will ask what it is about. You can either explain it, or link to it and then people can decide before the run if they really want to go through that.

    Honestly, people already do that. The problem is that most people don't read descriptions. You get people joining an "LF DPS" as support; you get people joining an "LF support chrono" as a mirage. You get people saying "casual run, killing all foes" and rushing ahead, as if it's a speed clear.

    ANet cannot legislate behavior. They can draw a line in the sand identifying egregious conduct and suspend people who go beyond the norm. But they can't ensure that everyone follows whatever local customs one wants to set up.

    The fact is not everyone in the world is gracious or polite or supportive. And more importantly, not everyone is like everyone else. Some people like trash talk; some are triggered by it. Some like to speed clear, some like to take it easy. Some like to be efficient; some like a more lackadaisical approach. There's nothing wrong with any of that. There's no problem if people are upfront about such preferences. There's only an issue when people assume that others in the party act as if they know everyone else's preferences ... and those assumptions turn out to be wrong.

    "With great power comes not-so-great utility bills."

  • @Vinceman.4572 said:

    @HnRkLnXqZ.1870 said:
    About that example: Fractal T4 Dailies + Rec + Chilled
    The accuser joined the party, he did not create it. We did the first fractal about 2/3 and then he started to flag a player by publicly talking about his/her dps performance in the way I showed above.

    Your answer should have been: Hey dude, maybe you misread the lfg. It's a chilled run. We don't care about the best performance." Trust me, this guy would have either left the group or started being silent. A tiny minority would still curse around and gives a clear reason of being kicked by the other members of the group.
    Life is too short to care about such situations longer than really needed.

    Indeed.

    "With great power comes not-so-great utility bills."

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Deepcuts.9740 said:
    Then there are people who just hide behind the "I will not respond to party chat. Maybe they will not notice me". And "If they ask me anything, I will just post in forums that I was harassed"

    I notice that kind of behavior a lot when my static group is missing some people and we have to pug. The most annoying is when you ask to ping their LI multiple times in a row and they simply don't say anything (because they can't and they used chat codes) then when you kick them for not doing as instructed they get all angry about it. This IS actual harassment and trolling but can't do anything about it I guess, other than kick/block them.

  • Zenith.7301Zenith.7301 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 18, 2018

    I have been in groups where I formed a group or joined a sub 30 essence "chill run" PRECISELY because I wanted to play power chrono DPS or herald or reaper without anyone kitten about not being a dragonhunter,holosmith or let alone weaver about it.

    Because I'm sick of having to play ele/guard for 5 years straight in PuGs and want to play something different for a change, and because the whole point of a game is to have fun.

    And even in these chill groups I formed, or have joined, I have had instances of even people from the guild MnF passive aggressively whining about if I could change class, or when in a group someone else pulls the "power herald :(" to kitten about a group that was clearly NOT made with " READ WEAVERS ONLY 250+ ESSENCES".

    I mean, there's a difference of a person doing 3k DPS (which I don't even buy, that's just plain impossible unless you're playing a magi druid or minstrel chrono) and doing 10-13k DPS and still getting a clean run with no wipes but still having a nolifer who rages because he spent 10-15 more minutes in a fractal instead of his 3x weaver/bs/chrono comp despite a run with no wipes, because god forbid those 10-15 minutes he probably spends more of just meandering around his house is suddenly too precious and worth berating strangers over knowing full well he has the safety of anonymity and would never be so petty in front of a real human being.

    These are usually the same people who think they can jump bug flux bombs on Shattered Observatory and end up dropping them on top of Arkk occassionally or on Siax or puking over everybody or spawning a nightmare in 99CM because god forbid they move off the boss to do a mechanic and their precious meter drops. Same with anomalies on Arkk, you could just kill the kitten anomaly which takes less than 5 seconds to be safe instead of being a greedy kitten and trying to skip every phase and remove every challenge possible from an encounter by trying to brute force it with burst DPS. Then things go wrong when they find out not every group can burst efficiently and they throw a tantrum when said group can still pull off mechanics cleanly for a kill with no wipes.

  • maxwelgm.4315maxwelgm.4315 Member ✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @maxwelgm.4315 said:
    Of the many possible interactions regarding dealing with an underperforming player, publicly calling them out in a rude away (see Deimos' post above) is a direct violation of Anet's own RoC, and yes this includes OP's example.

    I was in a group for Matthias once, asked for an experienced person to fill the last spot, got a Thief that pinged 250 Li (once, I should've known by then that one ping means nothing), and during the fight they didn't know how to cleanse, instead they stayed on the group and caused a wipe. Should I've been polite towards that person? No, he didn't deserve it, I pointed out that they were a cheat, a fraud and a liar, then simply kicked them. Was he polite towards me? Of course not, his behavior was abusive and insulting towards me and the rest of my group, by Anet's raw definition he should've been reported and banned. If you want to ban people for being rude by dps shaming, let's ban people for lying, pinging Li to join groups they don't deserve, and being really rude towards other players too. That's way worse than dps shaming.

    I actually agree with that. Lying your way into a group and being offensive to people not carrying you is also a (graver) violation of Anet's principle of not distressing other people's playtime.

    My last argument stands however, and I don't think they actually want to apply their usual terms when it comes to "elite" instanced content. Letting player interactions act out by themselves is arguably better since they know the community is bound to be a little insulated anyway, as a consequence of the game mode itself. As I said, many of us are missing the point here, including the OP: yes these things can be reported, but Anet is probably not going to intervene except for quite extreme cases, because it's too much work/it depreciates the self-established community standards.

  • ReaverKane.7598ReaverKane.7598 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Deimos.4263 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:
    Basically, you're asking whether ANet should punish people for being rude; they don't and they won't.

    They can and they should, at least according to their own ToS. You can inform a player their DPS is sub-par without being rude about it. It is possible.

    And yet, as polite as you are there's always people that will take any criticism as constructive as you make it, as harassment.

    @Zenith.7301 said:
    I mean, there's a difference of a person doing 3k DPS (which I don't even buy, that's just plain impossible unless you're playing a magi druid or minstrel chrono)

    Get a DPS meter... You'll be surprised. I've outdpsed "DPS" Necromancers, thieves and Elementalists on full Minstrel Chrono. There's a lot of people out there that don't know what they're doing.
    There's people that just copy the builds from the page, don't even read why the build works, or how. And then go do content and just don't do anything, because they don't know how their rotation works, don't know how to avoid taking damage, and don't know how to fight, so they die a lot (especially thieves and Eles) and don't do squat. Or simply are playing too defensive builds that have little to no synergy, and don't work.
    I've carried so many of these people on the backs of decent groups that i really lost count. People complaining about the "elitists" should shut up and be thankful that they have someone to carry them through content. Because if you're doing 1k DPS on a DPS class with a decent support component, you're not going to be doing any better outsie.

    These are usually the same people who think they can jump bug flux bombs on Shattered Observatory and end up dropping them on top of Arkk occassionally or on Siax or puking over everybody or spawning a nightmare in 99CM because god forbid they move off the boss to do a mechanic and their precious meter drops. Same with anomalies on Arkk, you could just kill the kitten anomaly which takes less than 5 seconds to be safe instead of being a greedy kitten and trying to skip every phase and remove every challenge possible from an encounter by trying to brute force it with burst DPS. Then things go wrong when they find out not every group can burst efficiently and they throw a tantrum when said group can still pull off mechanics cleanly for a kill with no wipes.

    And yet, if there's a more efficient way of doing things by "brute forcing" through mechanics, why wouldn't you?

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