Salvage Kits Can't Extract Runes Anymore? This is Stupid.

I haven't played this game continuously for years. I don't have BL Salvage Kits and Upgrade Extractors piled up from login rewards. It's really stupid that I can't use ordinary Salvage Kits anymore (I use the 15s one to extract upgrades).

I'm working on crafting my last six ascended armor pieces, and I crafted my ascended chest today. I thought that I could use my Master Salvage Kit as always to take my Superior Scholar Rune out of my old exotic chest to put it into my new one. Rather than the rune I expected to get, I got a green worth about 60 silver. I lost 6g because I can no longer do something that used to work.

Salvaged a bunch of older exotic pieces from my alts to see if it really didn't work like it used to, and lo, I didn't get a single sigil back.

And since I don't have tons of BL Salvage Kits or Upgrade Extractors piled up, I would have to drop real cash to do something I used to do with only 15 silver. As someone who doesn't have the time to farm tons of gold, this patch screwed me more than it benefited me. Again, it's really stupid that I can't pull runes and sigils out with Salvage Kits anymore. This shouldn't be locked behind cash shop items.

There's no reason why Salvage Kits couldn't work as they did before, and we can choose to salvage the runes and sigils ourselves rather than have it kill them automatically so you can sell more cash shop items. Why is forcing me to use cash shop items any better than the old way for the player?

I feel like I'm being swindled. I'd rather have a ton of green sigils hogging my inventory that I have to vendor than this.

And I feel the exact opposite I like that I dont have to bother with green sigils/runes anymore and have about 35 black lion kits collecting dust on a mule.The information that change was coming this tuseday was from a week or 2 ago so you had plenty of time to salvage that exotic chest armor before the change mate.

@Linken.6345 said:And I feel the exact opposite I like that I dont have to bother with green sigils/runes anymore and have about 35 black lion kits collecting dust on a mule.BLKs were indeed relatively easy to obtain once, but not anymore. I'm getting at best one per month (and often not even that much), and i do salvage way more than 25 exotics monthly. I still have some kits from the earlier days, but i can easily see the moment when i will run out. And it's not so far away.

For someone that wasn't playing since the very beginning and started much later, when they weren't as easy to obtain anymore, the change will be way, way more problematic, as they will probably have none at all.

IIRC, BLK are craftable as still very easily obtained ... dump some combo of kits into the MF (I forget the recipe). Is that no longer possible? Am I thinking something else?

EDIT: Nope, I was thinking Mystic Salvage kit.

@Obtena.7952 said:IIRC, BLK are craftable as still very easily obtained ... dump some combo of kits into the MF (I forget the recipe). Is that no longer possible? Am I thinking something else?

EDIT: Nope, I was thinking Mystic Salvage kit.

That's the Mystic Salvage kit(for rare). BLK come from login rewards or the Gem store.

yeah this is really lame. I thought it was a bug at first lol.really disappointed.

At least give us a choice to extract the rune/sigil or the materials they provide. The system for runes now is good...if you are piled up in gold already, but some of us do not stockpile gold and this rune update sucks for us.

@Emberstone.2904 said:I don't have BL Salvage Kits and Upgrade Extractors piled up from login rewards.Most people do not have endless kits available either. I'm not sure why you think this is unique.

It's really stupid that I can't use ordinary Salvage Kits anymore (I use the 15s one to extract upgrades).You can use ordinary kits still.

I thought that I could use my Master Salvage Kit as always to take my Superior Scholar Rune out of my old exotic chest to put it into my new one.It was never the case that a master's salvage kit had a guaranteed chance to extra a rune or sigil. There was always a chance of failure.

Rather than the rune I expected to get, I got a green worth about 60 silver. I lost 6g because I can no longer do something that used to work.You got a different result because you missed the memo. That's annoying, to be sure, but it's a one time issue; you won't make that mistake again.

However, like all games, things change. It's not reasonable to expect that everything in the game can (or should) remain as it was at launch.

And since I don't have tons of BL Salvage Kits or Upgrade Extractors piled up, I would have to drop real cash to do something I used to do with only 15 silver. As someone who doesn't have the time to farm tons of gold, this patch screwed me more than it benefited me. Again, it's really stupid that I can't pull runes and sigils out with Salvage Kits anymore. This shouldn't be locked behind cash shop items.You're looking at this too shortsightedly. On any individual transaction, yeah, you have a really good chance to get a lot less than you would have gotten before. However, in the long run, the salvage of masterwork gear got a lot more valuable. Previously, we'd salvage with basic kits for a 20% chance to get a 16 copper rune|sigil. Now, we have a 20% chance to get a lucent mote (worth about 20 copper still) plus a lower chance of getting symbols or charms worth a lot more. Given that none of the minor sigils|runes that we could get from random gear were worth more than 16c, this ends up being a better deal.

In the long run, we will see the price of all runes|sigils adjust to the new economic reality. Some previously dirt cheap ones will never be vendor price again, and thus will cost more. Some previously incredibly-expensive ones will drop in price, because there are now guaranteed sources

There's no reason why Salvage Kits couldn't work as they did before, and we can choose to salvage the runes and sigils ourselves rather than have it kill them automatically so you can sell more cash shop items.You're assuming a lot in making that statement. The whole idea is to supplant the random source of upgrades with a crafting source. Just as we don't usually need to save exotic gear any longer (because it's cheap enough to replace), the runes & sigils (for the most part) are also going to be cheaper to replace, on the whole.

And instead of getting dozens and dozens of different kinds of runes and sigils, most of which no one wants, we end up with only 3 types of charms, 3 types of symbols, and lucent motes, all of which everyone will want (directly or indirectly)

Why is forcing me to use cash shop items any better than the old way for the player?You aren't forced to use cash shop items.

I feel like I'm being swindled. I'd rather have a ton of green sigils hogging my inventory that I have to vendor than this.I'm sorry you feel that way. I think you'll find that, in 3 months or maybe 12, the new status quo will be better for more people. Processing lot takes less time, generates less detritus, which has more overall value (and is easier to store).

By far the worst change with the new system.

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@Emberstone.2904 said:I thought that I could use my Master Salvage Kit as always to take my Superior Scholar Rune out of my old exotic chest to put it into my new one.It was

never

the case that a master's salvage kit had a guaranteed chance to extra a rune or sigil. There was always a chance of failure.

A 20% chance to lose 6g is a lot better than 100% chance. There's absolutely no reason why salvaging the sigils/runes can't be separate from salvaging the item, instead of salvaging them both in one go 100% of the time like it is post-patch.

You still haven't provided a good reason why salvaging the rune/sigil can't be my choice. Let it be a 80% chance to salvage the rune out intact with a Master Salvage Kit, for example, and then let me salvage it myself for the new materials if I want to.

That was probably a move to make sigils/runes more valuable so players can craft them for profit, keeping the game economy healthy, whereas before most sigils/runes were vendored while also being a nuisance in clogging up inventory. It also makes BL savage kits more valuable which is a gem store item. For players who dont care about crafting though it might be better to be able to have the option to keep salavaged runes/sigils but it would conflict with the design to make sigils/runes worth something.

PSA: You can get BL salvage kit from black lion statuettes, do a key run every week to open a chest and in 3 weeks you got another BL salvage kit. Heck, you might even get an upgrade extractor before getting all the statuettes you need.

@eldrjth.7384 said:That was probably a move to make sigils/runes more valuable so players can craft them for profit, keeping the game economy healthy, whereas before most sigils/runes were vendored while also being a nuisance in clogging up inventory. It also makes BL savage kits more valuable which is a gem store item. For players who dont care about crafting though it might be better to be able to have the option to keep salavaged runes/sigils but it would conflict with the design to make sigils/runes worth something.

@DaFishBob.6518 said:PSA: You can get BL salvage kit from black lion statuettes, do a key run every week to open a chest and in 3 weeks you got another BL salvage kit. Heck, you might even get an upgrade extractor before getting all the statuettes you need.

In both cases the player lost something they have been able to do for six years.

As for key runs:1.) It is really stupid to have a character slot relegated to getting a free key for the express purpose of being able to do something I've been able to do for years.2.) Taking three weeks to do something I've been able to do for years whenever I wanted for 15 silver is also really stupid.

I don't feel my key-runner characters/slots are stupid.In fact, I guess it was smart as I have many extractors and a boatload of BL Salvage Kits now.

Another update to make the game Pay To Win.

Everyone happy they can salvage crap runes but we don't get good runes anymore.

They could keep the same drop rate from salvage and ppl would decide to salvage the runes or not, but nop they saw a good opportunity to make ppl use the gem store.

A sneaky way to make ppl buy blsk or extractors.

GG anet you doing really well, keep up the good work.

@Emberstone.2904 said:

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@Emberstone.2904 said:I thought that I could use my Master Salvage Kit as always to take my Superior Scholar Rune out of my old exotic chest to put it into my new one.It was

never

the case that a master's salvage kit had a guaranteed chance to extra a rune or sigil. There was always a chance of failure.

Isn't it still your choice? You chose not to use an extractor to get your upgrade. You chose to risk losing it, percentage chance is irrelevant, you chose a method which could result in a net loss of the upgrade, and got components required to make the upgrade instead of nothing. The patch notes, and the early information were all available, the early information is actually what brought me back to the game, well, that and a YouTube video. Where all those green sigils weren't worth the time to vendor them if I wasn't standing at a vendor, they're now worth something in the form of getting materials I can use to craft better upgrades. I'd call that a win.

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Emberstone.2904 said:

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@Emberstone.2904 said:I thought that I could use my Master Salvage Kit as always to take my Superior Scholar Rune out of my old exotic chest to put it into my new one.It was

never

the case that a master's salvage kit had a guaranteed chance to extra a rune or sigil. There was always a chance of failure.

Give me one good reason why I shouldn't be allowed to salvage the rune intact just like before, but then choose to salvage it after if I chose to.

Also, don't tell me my point is irrelevant just because I had a 20% chance to lose my upgrade. I have a 100% chance now unless I fork over gems or wait to get lucky with login rewards.

I shouldn't have to pay or wait for something I've been able to do for years.

@Emberstone.2904 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Emberstone.2904 said:

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@Emberstone.2904 said:I thought that I could use my Master Salvage Kit as always to take my Superior Scholar Rune out of my old exotic chest to put it into my new one.It was

never

the case that a master's salvage kit had a guaranteed chance to extra a rune or sigil. There was always a chance of failure.

I actually got an upgrade back today, so there is a chance to get them. Granted, I was surprised, but it did happen. As for your "one good reason" question: that's not the way the system works any more.

@"robertthebard.8150" said:I actually got an upgrade back today, so there is a chance to get them. Granted, I was surprised, but it did happen. As for your "one good reason" question: that's not the way the system works any more.Then I'll probably just find a different game to play, then. I started back up recently, I'm not too far in to stop. I abhor games that press microtransactions upon their players, especially ones that take already-existing features away and put them behind microtransactions for no good reason.

And for the people who say "well the information was out there, you should've known." I don't live on the forums. I don't have the time to do research about the thing I use to kill time away from my real-life research work. I'm supposed to be able to come here and relax, not be frustrated over something that shouldn't be.

If a means to do this existed as an in-game item for a reasonable price (not 300 gems) from traditional vendors for gold, then I wouldn't be complaining.

An option to choose between the two outcomes might have been nice, but we don't have any information about how technically difficult this might have been to implement. BLCs are easy enough to obtain just by logging in and, as it was before players got large numbers of them from login rewards, are best used when you actually want to recover the rune/sigil due to its value.

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:You're looking at this too shortsightedly. On any individual transaction, yeah, you have a really good chance to get a lot less than you would have gotten before. However, in the long run, the salvage of masterwork gear got a lot more valuable. Previously, we'd salvage with basic kits for a 20% chance to get a 16 copper rune|sigil. Now, we have a 20% chance to get a lucent mote (worth about 20 copper still) plus a lower chance of getting symbols or charms worth a lot more. Given that none of the minor sigils|runes that we could get from random gear were worth more than 16c, this ends up being a better deal.That's for lower gear ties only. For exotics, not so much. If you happen to get an exotic with a force sigil (for example), then now it's either gemshop item, or suffering a loss.

There's no reason why Salvage Kits couldn't work as they did before, and we can choose to salvage the runes and sigils ourselves rather than have it kill them automatically so you can sell more cash shop items.You're assuming a lot in making that statement. The whole idea is to supplant the random source of upgrades with a crafting source. Just as we don't usually need to save exotic gear any longer (because it's cheap enough to replace), the runes & sigils (for the most part) are also going to be cheaper to replace, on the whole.I doubt that, on average the crafting recipes will ensure they will cost

more

. And that's even when we ignore the cost of lucent motes, charms and symbols.

@Astralporing.1957 said:

BLCs are easy enough to obtain just by logging inNot really. The chance from login rewards is not all that much. You will get one occasionally, but one per 2-3 months at best (unless you are extremely lucky of course, but being extremely lucky is not a norm) is way too low compared to the demand. In that time you are sure to get way more than 25 exotics you would really want to extract upgrades from.

Just this cycle alone I got 3 salvage kits lol

And if lucky, 25 exotics is the amount I get in half a year. Plus, I wouldn't want at least half of the sigils in there,. This is not an issue at all, people are just mad for no reason.

@Blocki.4931 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

BLCs are easy enough to obtain just by logging inNot really. The chance from login rewards is not all that much. You will get one occasionally, but one per 2-3 months at best (unless you are extremely lucky of course, but being extremely lucky is not a norm) is way too low compared to the demand. In that time you are sure to get way more than 25 exotics you would really want to extract upgrades from.

This was poorly implemented as ANet failed to consider how upset players would be that they can no longer salvage intact runes the way they used to. You should have been able to salvage the intact rune first and then salvage the rune itself for materials. Bypassing this 2 step system by making it jump completely to deconstruction obviously means they are expecting increased gem store purchases.

This really should have been 2 steps, One we had before the update and new salvage runes and sigils, so one can chose what items they want to salve.Fully destroying sigils and runs vs 20% chance to get them and do what I want after should be the chose.