playing revenant is borderline exploiting - Page 3 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

playing revenant is borderline exploiting

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Comments

  • Alatar.7364Alatar.7364 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 5, 2018

    @JayAction.9056 said:

    @Alatar.7364 said:

    @rowdy.5107 said:
    rev is just a poor mans thief in my opinion. fun class to play. but thieves and mesmers do everything a rev can do, but so much better.

    Funny, the thieves say that Rev is a rich mans Thief.
    Tell me, what exactly is that "everything" which thieves can do better?

    Thief has;

    Way higher damage than rev, it’s no competition. Even in a PVE environment it’s not even close. Power vs Power

    High mobility than rev/sustain (once again no competition). Thief can cross entire DBL in like a minute.

    People keep complying on rev because they lose to Revs that are nowhere near their own skill level. Rev has the LOWEST power damage by about 20-30% and LOWEST burst but people died to Rev hardest hitting attack and just can’t take it mentally.

    Lowest power dmg, lowest burst....

    I am sorry, but I am not even gonna argument against this as this is utterly and objectively not true and very widely known fact at that.

    The point of my sarcastic post was that Rev has by miles higher dmg than thief, by miles higher sustain, same engage potential and only worse disengage.
    You could not, even as a joke, say that Rev has lowest burst dmg, or dmg overall.

    ~ I Aear cân ven na mar

  • JayAction.9056JayAction.9056 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 5, 2018

    @Alatar.7364 said:

    @JayAction.9056 said:

    @Alatar.7364 said:

    @rowdy.5107 said:
    rev is just a poor mans thief in my opinion. fun class to play. but thieves and mesmers do everything a rev can do, but so much better.

    Funny, the thieves say that Rev is a rich mans Thief.
    Tell me, what exactly is that "everything" which thieves can do better?

    Thief has;

    Way higher damage than rev, it’s no competition. Even in a PVE environment it’s not even close. Power vs Power

    High mobility than rev/sustain (once again no competition). Thief can cross entire DBL in like a minute.

    People keep complying on rev because they lose to Revs that are nowhere near their own skill level. Rev has the LOWEST power damage by about 20-30% and LOWEST burst but people died to Rev hardest hitting attack and just can’t take it mentally.

    Lowest power dmg, lowest burst....

    I am sorry, but I am not even gonna argument against this as this is utterly and objectively not true and very widely known fact at that.

    The point of my sarcastic post was that Rev has by miles higher dmg than thief, by miles higher sustain, same engage potential and only worse disengage.
    You could not, even as a joke, say that Rev has lowest burst dmg, or dmg overall.

    Do you know what dead eye is? Do you know what staff DD is? Core thief?

    Every class has the capabilities to do higher burst than Rev in a pvp viable build. In all game modes Rev burst is the lowest. Even more so in PvP however. I’m guessing you got dumpstered by somebody playing rev?

  • Alatar.7364Alatar.7364 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 5, 2018

    @JayAction.9056 said:

    @Alatar.7364 said:

    @JayAction.9056 said:

    @Alatar.7364 said:

    @rowdy.5107 said:
    rev is just a poor mans thief in my opinion. fun class to play. but thieves and mesmers do everything a rev can do, but so much better.

    Funny, the thieves say that Rev is a rich mans Thief.
    Tell me, what exactly is that "everything" which thieves can do better?

    Thief has;

    Way higher damage than rev, it’s no competition. Even in a PVE environment it’s not even close. Power vs Power

    High mobility than rev/sustain (once again no competition). Thief can cross entire DBL in like a minute.

    People keep complying on rev because they lose to Revs that are nowhere near their own skill level. Rev has the LOWEST power damage by about 20-30% and LOWEST burst but people died to Rev hardest hitting attack and just can’t take it mentally.

    Lowest power dmg, lowest burst....

    I am sorry, but I am not even gonna argument against this as this is utterly and objectively not true and very widely known fact at that.

    The point of my sarcastic post was that Rev has by miles higher dmg than thief, by miles higher sustain, same engage potential and only worse disengage.
    You could not, even as a joke, say that Rev has lowest burst dmg, or dmg overall.

    Do you know what dead eye is? Do you know what staff DD is? Core thief?

    Every class has the capabilities to do higher burst than Rev in a pvp viable build. In all game modes Rev burst is the lowest. Even more so in PvP however. I’m guessing you got dumpstered by somebody playing rev?

    S/D 3 button combo + almost half of Ini pool = 6763.
    D/P 4 button combo + more than half Ini pool = 7853 if you get behind, 3890 if front.

    Rev, 1 button = 9789

    All critics. Medium target. Match tested.

    Staff Thief.... lol... not gonna react to that.

    Was not talking about DE at all, would have said so if I did.

    I main Rev, oh clever one.
    I know of only one other Rev that can and will effectively beat me every single time. Second one I dont know the name off but remember getting shreked.
    You using such a weak argument such as "dumpstered by somebody playing Rev" only shows your bias toward something you like, proving you don't argue here from an objective point of view.

    Once again, I can't for the love of god, believe my eyes that somebody is actually claiming Rev burst is the lowest. Only biased Rev main could possibly release such a statement in to the world.

    ~ I Aear cân ven na mar

  • idolin.2831idolin.2831 Member ✭✭✭

    @JayAction.9056 said:

    @Alatar.7364 said:

    @JayAction.9056 said:

    @Alatar.7364 said:

    @rowdy.5107 said:
    rev is just a poor mans thief in my opinion. fun class to play. but thieves and mesmers do everything a rev can do, but so much better.

    Funny, the thieves say that Rev is a rich mans Thief.
    Tell me, what exactly is that "everything" which thieves can do better?

    Thief has;

    Way higher damage than rev, it’s no competition. Even in a PVE environment it’s not even close. Power vs Power

    High mobility than rev/sustain (once again no competition). Thief can cross entire DBL in like a minute.

    People keep complying on rev because they lose to Revs that are nowhere near their own skill level. Rev has the LOWEST power damage by about 20-30% and LOWEST burst but people died to Rev hardest hitting attack and just can’t take it mentally.

    Lowest power dmg, lowest burst....

    I am sorry, but I am not even gonna argument against this as this is utterly and objectively not true and very widely known fact at that.

    The point of my sarcastic post was that Rev has by miles higher dmg than thief, by miles higher sustain, same engage potential and only worse disengage.
    You could not, even as a joke, say that Rev has lowest burst dmg, or dmg overall.

    Do you know what dead eye is? Do you know what staff DD is? Core thief?

    Every class has the capabilities to do higher burst than Rev in a pvp viable build. In all game modes Rev burst is the lowest. Even more so in PvP however. I’m guessing you got dumpstered by somebody playing rev?

    Ask the best Revs right now and I bet a majority of them will agree OH sword is very strong right now (some might even say broken). I've heard Rev streamers say that, and almost everyone on this forum (except for you) says that. Rev might be weak at a few things but burst damage is definitely NOT one of them.

  • JayAction.9056JayAction.9056 Member ✭✭✭

    @Alatar.7364 said:

    @JayAction.9056 said:

    @Alatar.7364 said:

    @JayAction.9056 said:

    @Alatar.7364 said:

    @rowdy.5107 said:
    rev is just a poor mans thief in my opinion. fun class to play. but thieves and mesmers do everything a rev can do, but so much better.

    Funny, the thieves say that Rev is a rich mans Thief.
    Tell me, what exactly is that "everything" which thieves can do better?

    Thief has;

    Way higher damage than rev, it’s no competition. Even in a PVE environment it’s not even close. Power vs Power

    High mobility than rev/sustain (once again no competition). Thief can cross entire DBL in like a minute.

    People keep complying on rev because they lose to Revs that are nowhere near their own skill level. Rev has the LOWEST power damage by about 20-30% and LOWEST burst but people died to Rev hardest hitting attack and just can’t take it mentally.

    Lowest power dmg, lowest burst....

    I am sorry, but I am not even gonna argument against this as this is utterly and objectively not true and very widely known fact at that.

    The point of my sarcastic post was that Rev has by miles higher dmg than thief, by miles higher sustain, same engage potential and only worse disengage.
    You could not, even as a joke, say that Rev has lowest burst dmg, or dmg overall.

    Do you know what dead eye is? Do you know what staff DD is? Core thief?

    Every class has the capabilities to do higher burst than Rev in a pvp viable build. In all game modes Rev burst is the lowest. Even more so in PvP however. I’m guessing you got dumpstered by somebody playing rev?

    S/D 3 button combo + almost half of Ini pool = 6763.
    D/P 4 button combo + more than half Ini pool = 7853 if you get behind, 3890 if front.

    Rev, 1 button = 9789

    All critics. Medium target. Match tested.

    Staff Thief.... lol... not gonna react to that.

    Was not talking about DE at all, would have said so if I did.

    I main Rev, oh clever one.
    I know of only one other Rev that can and will effectively beat me every single time. Second one I dont know the name off but remember getting shreked.
    You using such a weak argument such as "dumpstered by somebody playing Rev" only shows your bias toward something you like, proving you don't argue here from an objective point of view.

    Once again, I can't for the love of god, believe my eyes that somebody is actually claiming Rev burst is the lowest. Only biased Rev main could possibly release such a statement in to the world.

    9789 from1 “button” on rev. What’s this button bro? You did that much damage, I’ll assume berserker so this is almost possible. I’ll assume 25 might stacks to..

    You did this vs medium armor dummy? Screens or it didn’t happen lol.

  • JayAction.9056JayAction.9056 Member ✭✭✭

    @idolin.2831 said:

    @JayAction.9056 said:

    @Alatar.7364 said:

    @JayAction.9056 said:

    @Alatar.7364 said:

    @rowdy.5107 said:
    rev is just a poor mans thief in my opinion. fun class to play. but thieves and mesmers do everything a rev can do, but so much better.

    Funny, the thieves say that Rev is a rich mans Thief.
    Tell me, what exactly is that "everything" which thieves can do better?

    Thief has;

    Way higher damage than rev, it’s no competition. Even in a PVE environment it’s not even close. Power vs Power

    High mobility than rev/sustain (once again no competition). Thief can cross entire DBL in like a minute.

    People keep complying on rev because they lose to Revs that are nowhere near their own skill level. Rev has the LOWEST power damage by about 20-30% and LOWEST burst but people died to Rev hardest hitting attack and just can’t take it mentally.

    Lowest power dmg, lowest burst....

    I am sorry, but I am not even gonna argument against this as this is utterly and objectively not true and very widely known fact at that.

    The point of my sarcastic post was that Rev has by miles higher dmg than thief, by miles higher sustain, same engage potential and only worse disengage.
    You could not, even as a joke, say that Rev has lowest burst dmg, or dmg overall.

    Do you know what dead eye is? Do you know what staff DD is? Core thief?

    Every class has the capabilities to do higher burst than Rev in a pvp viable build. In all game modes Rev burst is the lowest. Even more so in PvP however. I’m guessing you got dumpstered by somebody playing rev?

    Ask the best Revs right now and I bet a majority of them will agree OH sword is very strong right now (some might even say broken). I've heard Rev streamers say that, and almost everyone on this forum (except for you) says that. Rev might be weak at a few things but burst damage is definitely NOT one of them.

    I farm every rev NA

  • Alatar.7364Alatar.7364 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 6, 2018

    @JayAction.9056 said:

    @Alatar.7364 said:

    @JayAction.9056 said:

    @Alatar.7364 said:

    @JayAction.9056 said:
    @Alatar.7364 said:

    @rowdy.5107 said:
    rev is just a poor mans thief in my opinion. fun class to play. but thieves and mesmers do everything a rev can do, but so much better.

    Funny, the thieves say that Rev is a rich mans Thief.
    Tell me, what exactly is that "everything" which thieves can do better?

    Thief has;

    Way higher damage than rev, it’s no competition. Even in a PVE environment it’s not even close. Power vs Power

    High mobility than rev/sustain (once again no competition). Thief can cross entire DBL in like a minute.

    People keep complying on rev because they lose to Revs that are nowhere near their own skill level. Rev has the LOWEST power damage by about 20-30% and LOWEST burst but people died to Rev hardest hitting attack and just can’t take it mentally.

    Lowest power dmg, lowest burst....

    I am sorry, but I am not even gonna argument against this as this is utterly and objectively not true and very widely known fact at that.

    The point of my sarcastic post was that Rev has by miles higher dmg than thief, by miles higher sustain, same engage potential and only worse disengage.
    You could not, even as a joke, say that Rev has lowest burst dmg, or dmg overall.

    Do you know what dead eye is? Do you know what staff DD is? Core thief?

    Every class has the capabilities to do higher burst than Rev in a pvp viable build. In all game modes Rev burst is the lowest. Even more so in PvP however. I’m guessing you got dumpstered by somebody playing rev?

    S/D 3 button combo + almost half of Ini pool = 6763.
    D/P 4 button combo + more than half Ini pool = 7853 if you get behind, 3890 if front.

    Rev, 1 button = 9789

    All critics. Medium target. Match tested.

    Staff Thief.... lol... not gonna react to that.

    Was not talking about DE at all, would have said so if I did.

    I main Rev, oh clever one.
    I know of only one other Rev that can and will effectively beat me every single time. Second one I dont know the name off but remember getting shreked.
    You using such a weak argument such as "dumpstered by somebody playing Rev" only shows your bias toward something you like, proving you don't argue here from an objective point of view.

    Once again, I can't for the love of god, believe my eyes that somebody is actually claiming Rev burst is the lowest. Only biased Rev main could possibly release such a statement in to the world.

    9789 from1 “button” on rev. What’s this button bro? You did that much damage, I’ll assume berserker so this is almost possible. I’ll assume 25 might stacks to..

    You did this vs medium armor dummy? Screens or it didn’t happen lol.

    Had to ask a guy to duel me after your denial post.
    Told you the screenshot was Match tested, so this one is with even much less might stacks then Rev will actually achieve in actual Match and much less then what you even though I did it with, so ...
    The HP bar is exactly at 50% capacity with 11k HP so keep your Berserker excuses to yourself ;)
    Have fun.

    ~ I Aear cân ven na mar

  • Ario.8964Ario.8964 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @JayAction.9056 said:

    @idolin.2831 said:

    @JayAction.9056 said:

    @Alatar.7364 said:

    @JayAction.9056 said:

    @Alatar.7364 said:

    @rowdy.5107 said:
    rev is just a poor mans thief in my opinion. fun class to play. but thieves and mesmers do everything a rev can do, but so much better.

    Funny, the thieves say that Rev is a rich mans Thief.
    Tell me, what exactly is that "everything" which thieves can do better?

    Thief has;

    Way higher damage than rev, it’s no competition. Even in a PVE environment it’s not even close. Power vs Power

    High mobility than rev/sustain (once again no competition). Thief can cross entire DBL in like a minute.

    People keep complying on rev because they lose to Revs that are nowhere near their own skill level. Rev has the LOWEST power damage by about 20-30% and LOWEST burst but people died to Rev hardest hitting attack and just can’t take it mentally.

    Lowest power dmg, lowest burst....

    I am sorry, but I am not even gonna argument against this as this is utterly and objectively not true and very widely known fact at that.

    The point of my sarcastic post was that Rev has by miles higher dmg than thief, by miles higher sustain, same engage potential and only worse disengage.
    You could not, even as a joke, say that Rev has lowest burst dmg, or dmg overall.

    Do you know what dead eye is? Do you know what staff DD is? Core thief?

    Every class has the capabilities to do higher burst than Rev in a pvp viable build. In all game modes Rev burst is the lowest. Even more so in PvP however. I’m guessing you got dumpstered by somebody playing rev?

    Ask the best Revs right now and I bet a majority of them will agree OH sword is very strong right now (some might even say broken). I've heard Rev streamers say that, and almost everyone on this forum (except for you) says that. Rev might be weak at a few things but burst damage is definitely NOT one of them.

    I farm every rev NA

    Cute, let's see those screens you like to ask people for when they make ridiculous claims.

    Jokes aside, Jay has a point with rev not being as monstrous as people think, especially when making comparisons to a thief you have to take into account that thief wins the 1v1 against rev assuming equal skill between players. It's not as noticeable now with OH sword giving you the ability to 1 shot (needs a damage nerf, that can't be argued no matter who you are) but it's an important factor. It's the same reason why power mes or FA ele were never top tier meta builds, thief shut them out too easily for their advantages over thief performance to be worth it. If rev's OH sword is nerfed, as it should be, then you will see a significant decrease in rev's viability compared to other profs simply because OH sword's damage is the main thing keeping them in the game right now.

  • Alatar.7364Alatar.7364 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 6, 2018

    @Ario.8964 said:

    Cute, let's see those screens you like to ask people for when they make ridiculous claims.

    You can check my screenshots for my ridiculous statement right now above your very post.
    I even kited long enough until my Might stacks dropped. It is practically impossible for Rev to not have 20-25 might stacks, since Rev grants them to itself automaticaly and very very very frequently.
    If that person above wanted a screen without might stacks, then that would be pure alibism which practically can't be reached in actual Match, it would be like asking Mes/Mirage to post screens of F1/2/3 without Clones.

    ~ I Aear cân ven na mar

  • Ario.8964Ario.8964 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 6, 2018

    @Alatar.7364 said:

    @Ario.8964 said:

    Cute, let's see those screens you like to ask people for when they make ridiculous claims.

    You can check my screenshots for my ridiculous statement right now above your very post.
    I even kited long enough until my Might stacks dropped. It is practically impossible for Rev to not have 20-25 might stacks, since Rev grants them to itself automaticaly and very very very frequently.
    If that person above wanted a screen without might stacks, then that would be pure alibism which practically can't be reached in actual Match, it would be like asking Mes/Mirage to post screens of F1/2/3 without Clones.

    Was asking Jay for the screens of him farming every rev NA since he likes to talk big, sorry it wasn't clear.

  • Alatar.7364Alatar.7364 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ario.8964 said:

    @Alatar.7364 said:

    @Ario.8964 said:

    Cute, let's see those screens you like to ask people for when they make ridiculous claims.

    You can check my screenshots for my ridiculous statement right now above your very post.
    I even kited long enough until my Might stacks dropped. It is practically impossible for Rev to not have 20-25 might stacks, since Rev grants them to itself automaticaly and very very very frequently.
    If that person above wanted a screen without might stacks, then that would be pure alibism which practically can't be reached in actual Match, it would be like asking Mes/Mirage to post screens of F1/2/3 without Clones.

    Was asking Jay for the screens of him farming every rev NA since he likes to talk big, sorry it wasn't clear.

    Nah, that was my bad apparently.
    Sorry

    ~ I Aear cân ven na mar

  • JayAction.9056JayAction.9056 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 6, 2018

    @Alatar.7364

    you did about 20% less damage than your claimed scenario with 13 might and 8 vuln on a thief with none of the possible damage reductions. I assumed best case scenario in hopes your claim could magically happen.

    Thief can burst much higher than that

    Everything I said still stands.

    @Ario.8964

    I don’t take screens of daily occurrences. Though Im not near my computer to post screens atm.

  • Alatar.7364Alatar.7364 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 6, 2018

    @JayAction.9056 said:
    @Alatar.7364

    you did about 20% less damage than your claimed scenario with 13 might and 8 vuln on a thief with none of the possible damage reductions. I assumed best case scenario in hopes your claim could magically happen.

    Thief can burst much higher than that

    Everything I said still stands.

    @Ario.8964

    I don’t take screens of daily occurrences. Though Im not near my computer to post screens atm.

    Nothing you said stands.
    The vul was done by SW, D'Uh.
    You said I did 9.7 with zerk and 25 mights, I did 8.2 with Marauder and 13 stacks.
    Real case scenario would be 25 stacks which equals roughly the dmg I stated original.
    Nothing you say stands. You got a proof but you deliberately chose to ignore it. Nothing you said stands...

    ~ I Aear cân ven na mar

  • idolin.2831idolin.2831 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ario.8964 said:

    @JayAction.9056 said:

    I farm every rev NA

    Cute, let's see those screens you like to ask people for when they make ridiculous claims.

    Jokes aside, Jay has a point with rev not being as monstrous as people think, especially when making comparisons to a thief you have to take into account that thief wins the 1v1 against rev assuming equal skill between players. It's not as noticeable now with OH sword giving you the ability to 1 shot (needs a damage nerf, that can't be argued no matter who you are) but it's an important factor. It's the same reason why power mes or FA ele were never top tier meta builds, thief shut them out too easily for their advantages over thief performance to be worth it. If rev's OH sword is nerfed, as it should be, then you will see a significant decrease in rev's viability compared to other profs simply because OH sword's damage is the main thing keeping them in the game right now.

    Yeah I'm just countering his point of Rev having low burst damage. Thief obviously has many advantages over rev - just as rev also does. I'm not sure about 1v1 - both Rev and Thief are not for that purpose but with UA, Reveal, high burst damage, good gap-closer and okay-ish sustain in 1v1s, I'd be more inclined to say Rev. I'm not too good however so I might be wrong :/

    As for OH sword nerf: It's reasonable to nerf OH sword, but there needs to be a buff along with it - either to sustain (like a buff to Shield, or a defensive buff to traits), and/or a buff to MH sword. A buff to both MH sword and Shield would be interesting - I'd love to try playing Sword/Shield and be more of a 1v1 role.

  • Ario.8964Ario.8964 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @idolin.2831 said:

    @Ario.8964 said:

    @JayAction.9056 said:

    I farm every rev NA

    Cute, let's see those screens you like to ask people for when they make ridiculous claims.

    Jokes aside, Jay has a point with rev not being as monstrous as people think, especially when making comparisons to a thief you have to take into account that thief wins the 1v1 against rev assuming equal skill between players. It's not as noticeable now with OH sword giving you the ability to 1 shot (needs a damage nerf, that can't be argued no matter who you are) but it's an important factor. It's the same reason why power mes or FA ele were never top tier meta builds, thief shut them out too easily for their advantages over thief performance to be worth it. If rev's OH sword is nerfed, as it should be, then you will see a significant decrease in rev's viability compared to other profs simply because OH sword's damage is the main thing keeping them in the game right now.

    Yeah I'm just countering his point of Rev having low burst damage. Thief obviously has many advantages over rev - just as rev also does. I'm not sure about 1v1 - both Rev and Thief are not for that purpose but with UA, Reveal, high burst damage, good gap-closer and okay-ish sustain in 1v1s, I'd be more inclined to say Rev. I'm not too good however so I might be wrong :/

    As for OH sword nerf: It's reasonable to nerf OH sword, but there needs to be a buff along with it - either to sustain (like a buff to Shield, or a defensive buff to traits), and/or a buff to MH sword. A buff to both MH sword and Shield would be interesting - I'd love to try playing Sword/Shield and be more of a 1v1 role.

    Shield would be so much better if they got rid of the root on 5. Then bringing it for disengage and repositioning would be a viable pick. As far as the thief and rev 1v1, if the thief is d/p they win cause stealth destroys revs damage as their skills require targets to go off (except for autos and sword 4). If the thief is s/d the fight is much closer but thief's positioning advantage plus the very strong influence of the stolen skill I think ends up shifting the fight just ever so slightly to the thief. It's not unwinnable by any means, but from all the testing I've done with people the fight is favored to thief.

  • Ario.8964Ario.8964 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @JayAction.9056 said:
    @Alatar.7364

    you did about 20% less damage than your claimed scenario with 13 might and 8 vuln on a thief with none of the possible damage reductions. I assumed best case scenario in hopes your claim could magically happen.

    Thief can burst much higher than that

    Everything I said still stands.

    @Ario.8964

    I don’t take screens of daily occurrences. Though Im not near my computer to post screens atm.

    So basically, you have 0 evidence and are making baseless claims. Got it.

  • Noha.3749Noha.3749 Member ✭✭✭

    i cant understand how you dont see that a thief got way better mobility than a revenant.
    Its not even a competition, thieves got the best mobility ingame and their entire kit is all about evasion and mobility.

    Every thief runs a shortbow, and with shortbow and steal alone they rock the field with mobility, now add in daredevil dodges for more mobility, shadowstep, MH sword 2 heck, even heartseeker is a decent mobility option if MH dagger.

    it wont ever be a contest, thieves got most mobility in game and thats completely fine, thats what they are about.

  • Koen.1327Koen.1327 Member ✭✭✭

    @Noha.3749 said:
    i cant understand how you dont see that a thief got way better mobility than a revenant.
    Its not even a competition, thieves got the best mobility ingame and their entire kit is all about evasion and mobility.

    Every thief runs a shortbow, and with shortbow and steal alone they rock the field with mobility, now add in daredevil dodges for more mobility, shadowstep, MH sword 2 heck, even heartseeker is a decent mobility option if MH dagger.

    it wont ever be a contest, thieves got most mobility in game and thats completely fine, thats what they are about.

    it depends on the situation, roaming around with a shortbow, or racing towards a node yea d/p thief wins for sure, because of this has an additional role of taking decapping to the extreme

    in +1 situations, when an enemy duelist flees the node and you need to kill it will be rev who has instant 1800 port (pt+s5), with another 1200 coming 5 seconds later. Sure this is something a thief can match using shortbow and ports (and back if needed), but at a much higher cost.
    Rev can reset much faster, and do this over and over again, all utilies and skills are low cooldown.

    you only have to kite for 10 seconds towards a nice safe no port spot, or just wait 10 seconds trying to pick a target to have 100% energy in shiro, turning you into an absolute deathmachine with really no counter other than no port spots itself.

  • Noha.3749Noha.3749 Member ✭✭✭

    @Koen.1327 said:

    @Noha.3749 said:
    i cant understand how you dont see that a thief got way better mobility than a revenant.
    Its not even a competition, thieves got the best mobility ingame and their entire kit is all about evasion and mobility.

    Every thief runs a shortbow, and with shortbow and steal alone they rock the field with mobility, now add in daredevil dodges for more mobility, shadowstep, MH sword 2 heck, even heartseeker is a decent mobility option if MH dagger.

    it wont ever be a contest, thieves got most mobility in game and thats completely fine, thats what they are about.

    it depends on the situation, roaming around with a shortbow, or racing towards a node yea d/p thief wins for sure, because of this has an additional role of taking decapping to the extreme

    in +1 situations, when an enemy duelist flees the node and you need to kill it will be rev who has instant 1800 port (pt+s5), with another 1200 coming 5 seconds later. Sure this is something a thief can match using shortbow and ports (and back if needed), but at a much higher cost.
    Rev can reset much faster, and do this over and over again, all utilies and skills are low cooldown.

    you only have to kite for 10 seconds towards a nice safe no port spot, or just wait 10 seconds trying to pick a target to have 100% energy in shiro, turning you into an absolute deathmachine with really no counter other than no port spots itself.

    I still completely dissagree :p (isnt it lovely that we all have different opinions xD?)

    Sure a revenant got great "burst engage", but using up pt + s5 you really only have enough energy for a single shortened burstrotation, and switching into glint to add up with more burst locks you our of shiros mobility options for the duration. They do however bring great cleave and distruption against multiple opponents.
    = Fast engage, great burst, avrage disengage

    A thief can s2 through a wall for (is it 900 range?) (or shadowshot if d/p for 600range), steal with 1200 range, shadowstep 1200 range, shortbow5 whenever for whatever innitiative there is to spare for 900range and none of this really effects their way to disengage or burst. Also alot of thieves run that heal+dodge thingy with is it.. 300range?.
    I do think revenants burst is harder though, but a thief is more "disruptive" against a single target with boonrip + daze(if s/d), daze+daze(if d/p) and alot of the damage actually comes from the auto attacks and "well timed" dazes/boonrips.
    = fastest engage, good burst, great single target distruption, great disengage.

  • Fat Disgrace.4275Fat Disgrace.4275 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 6, 2018

    @Noha.3749 said:

    @Koen.1327 said:

    @Noha.3749 said:
    i cant understand how you dont see that a thief got way better mobility than a revenant.
    Its not even a competition, thieves got the best mobility ingame and their entire kit is all about evasion and mobility.

    Every thief runs a shortbow, and with shortbow and steal alone they rock the field with mobility, now add in daredevil dodges for more mobility, shadowstep, MH sword 2 heck, even heartseeker is a decent mobility option if MH dagger.

    it wont ever be a contest, thieves got most mobility in game and thats completely fine, thats what they are about.

    it depends on the situation, roaming around with a shortbow, or racing towards a node yea d/p thief wins for sure, because of this has an additional role of taking decapping to the extreme

    in +1 situations, when an enemy duelist flees the node and you need to kill it will be rev who has instant 1800 port (pt+s5), with another 1200 coming 5 seconds later. Sure this is something a thief can match using shortbow and ports (and back if needed), but at a much higher cost.
    Rev can reset much faster, and do this over and over again, all utilies and skills are low cooldown.

    you only have to kite for 10 seconds towards a nice safe no port spot, or just wait 10 seconds trying to pick a target to have 100% energy in shiro, turning you into an absolute deathmachine with really no counter other than no port spots itself.

    I still completely dissagree :p (isnt it lovely that we all have different opinions xD?)

    Sure a revenant got great "burst engage", but using up pt + s5 you really only have enough energy for a single shortened burstrotation, and switching into glint to add up with more burst locks you our of shiros mobility options for the duration. They do however bring great cleave and distruption against multiple opponents.
    = Fast engage, great burst, avrage disengage

    A thief can s2 through a wall for (is it 900 range?) (or shadowshot if d/p for 600range), steal with 1200 range, shadowstep 1200 range, shortbow5 whenever for whatever innitiative there is to spare for 900range and none of this really effects their way to disengage or burst. Also alot of thieves run that heal+dodge thingy with is it.. 300range?.
    I do think revenants burst is harder though, but a thief is more "disruptive" against a single target with boonrip + daze(if s/d), daze+daze(if d/p) and alot of the damage actually comes from the auto attacks and "well timed" dazes/boonrips.
    = fastest engage, good burst, great single target distruption, great disengage.

    Yeah, thief can out mobilty most classes from a to b, but has little to no iniaitve left to be a real threat where as rev can still crazy dangerous.

  • everyman.4375everyman.4375 Member ✭✭✭

    @JayAction.9056 said:

    @Alatar.7364 said:

    @rowdy.5107 said:
    rev is just a poor mans thief in my opinion. fun class to play. but thieves and mesmers do everything a rev can do, but so much better.

    Funny, the thieves say that Rev is a rich mans Thief.
    Tell me, what exactly is that "everything" which thieves can do better?

    Thief has;

    Way higher damage than rev, it’s no competition. Even in a PVE environment it’s not even close. Power vs Power

    High mobility than rev/sustain (once again no competition). Thief can cross entire DBL in like a minute.

    People keep complying on rev because they lose to Revs that are nowhere near their own skill level. Rev has the LOWEST power damage by about 20-30% and LOWEST burst but people died to Rev hardest hitting attack and just can’t take it mentally.

    I don't honestly know if you play PvP, Revs have one of the best burst in the game right now an i don't know how you can't notice it, maybe you don't see a lot of decent revenants but still. Claming that they have the lowest power damage ? kitten

  • Actually tbh ......since everyone is agrees with the sword 4 5 nerf.......i like to see what happens is their auto attacks are nerfed ......will be fun to watch

  • Azure The Heartless.3261Azure The Heartless.3261 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 6, 2018

    @incisorr.9502 said:
    whatever i guess there's no hope that this class will ever get addressed?

    rips off sunglasses
    It's been addressed since revenant dropped!
    Are you really freaking out over glint shiro power heralds?

    @kin korn karn.9023 said:
    relatively high sustain (at least in short bursts)

    I don't know if that sounds reasonable to you, but to me it sounds like "I'm upset I burst damaged infuse light."
    You cannot sustain in short bursts. Sustain is not synonymous with "healing that depends on incoming damage for 6 seconds every minute."

    Sword 4 might need shaving for what it can do. On the whole though, it's far from "borderline exploiting." If you're mad because a revenant got all his health back by swapping into glint and flipping light facet in time with your burst, you got outplayed.

    EDIT:
    Op is a Mirage main, balance cluelessness checks out.

    [Charr Noises]
    [Plays every class]
    [JUST GIT EVEN GUDDER ITS FINE]

  • JayAction.9056JayAction.9056 Member ✭✭✭

    @everyman.4375 said:

    @JayAction.9056 said:

    @Alatar.7364 said:

    @rowdy.5107 said:
    rev is just a poor mans thief in my opinion. fun class to play. but thieves and mesmers do everything a rev can do, but so much better.

    Funny, the thieves say that Rev is a rich mans Thief.
    Tell me, what exactly is that "everything" which thieves can do better?

    Thief has;

    Way higher damage than rev, it’s no competition. Even in a PVE environment it’s not even close. Power vs Power

    High mobility than rev/sustain (once again no competition). Thief can cross entire DBL in like a minute.

    People keep complying on rev because they lose to Revs that are nowhere near their own skill level. Rev has the LOWEST power damage by about 20-30% and LOWEST burst but people died to Rev hardest hitting attack and just can’t take it mentally.

    I don't honestly know if you play PvP, Revs have one of the best burst in the game right now an i don't know how you can't notice it, maybe you don't see a lot of decent revenants but still. Claming that they have the lowest power damage ? kitten

    You don’t know if I play PVP? You must be low ranked

    @Ario.8964 said:

    @JayAction.9056 said:
    @Alatar.7364

    you did about 20% less damage than your claimed scenario with 13 might and 8 vuln on a thief with none of the possible damage reductions. I assumed best case scenario in hopes your claim could magically happen.

    Thief can burst much higher than that

    Everything I said still stands.

    @Ario.8964

    I don’t take screens of daily occurrences. Though Im not near my computer to post screens atm.

    So basically, you have 0 evidence and are making baseless claims. Got it.

    Do you ever look at the leaderboard? I’ve been trashing people since the game has been out consistently. I don’t take screens of daily occurrences dude. I’ve been ranked 50+ plenty. You have to beat near everyone for that...

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @JayAction.9056 said:

    @everyman.4375 said:

    @JayAction.9056 said:

    @Alatar.7364 said:

    @rowdy.5107 said:
    rev is just a poor mans thief in my opinion. fun class to play. but thieves and mesmers do everything a rev can do, but so much better.

    Funny, the thieves say that Rev is a rich mans Thief.
    Tell me, what exactly is that "everything" which thieves can do better?

    Thief has;

    Way higher damage than rev, it’s no competition. Even in a PVE environment it’s not even close. Power vs Power

    High mobility than rev/sustain (once again no competition). Thief can cross entire DBL in like a minute.

    People keep complying on rev because they lose to Revs that are nowhere near their own skill level. Rev has the LOWEST power damage by about 20-30% and LOWEST burst but people died to Rev hardest hitting attack and just can’t take it mentally.

    I don't honestly know if you play PvP, Revs have one of the best burst in the game right now an i don't know how you can't notice it, maybe you don't see a lot of decent revenants but still. Claming that they have the lowest power damage ? kitten

    You don’t know if I play PVP? You must be low ranked

    @Ario.8964 said:

    @JayAction.9056 said:
    @Alatar.7364

    you did about 20% less damage than your claimed scenario with 13 might and 8 vuln on a thief with none of the possible damage reductions. I assumed best case scenario in hopes your claim could magically happen.

    Thief can burst much higher than that

    Everything I said still stands.

    @Ario.8964

    I don’t take screens of daily occurrences. Though Im not near my computer to post screens atm.

    So basically, you have 0 evidence and are making baseless claims. Got it.

    Do you ever look at the leaderboard? I’ve been trashing people since the game has been out consistently. I don’t take screens of daily occurrences dude. I’ve been ranked 50+ plenty. You have to beat near everyone for that...

    This is as irrelevant as it gets in assessing rev performance. Power herald is meta, nothing else is even useable. Why does this thread has too many pointless posts?

  • ArthurDent.9538ArthurDent.9538 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @everyman.4375 said:

    @JayAction.9056 said:

    @Alatar.7364 said:

    @rowdy.5107 said:
    rev is just a poor mans thief in my opinion. fun class to play. but thieves and mesmers do everything a rev can do, but so much better.

    Funny, the thieves say that Rev is a rich mans Thief.
    Tell me, what exactly is that "everything" which thieves can do better?

    Thief has;

    Way higher damage than rev, it’s no competition. Even in a PVE environment it’s not even close. Power vs Power

    High mobility than rev/sustain (once again no competition). Thief can cross entire DBL in like a minute.

    People keep complying on rev because they lose to Revs that are nowhere near their own skill level. Rev has the LOWEST power damage by about 20-30% and LOWEST burst but people died to Rev hardest hitting attack and just can’t take it mentally.

    I don't honestly know if you play PvP, Revs have one of the best burst in the game right now an i don't know how you can't notice it, maybe you don't see a lot of decent revenants but still. Claming that they have the lowest power damage ? kitten

    https://snowcrows.com/benchmarks/
    When max damage builds are objectively compared between all the classes, rev along with necro are the 2 bottom power dps classes in the game. Necro was slightly higher before the rune and sigil update and herald simply hasn't been updated, so it will probably be a bit lower from the scholar rune change, regardless every other class has a power build that does 2-10k more dps than rev. There are a few problems with applying these numbers to pvp: there are a lot of skill splits currently so pvp balance is quite different from pve, some classes can self buff better than others which is more important in pvp, and classes don't run max damage builds in pvp.

    With regards to skill splits between game modes, most classes except for maybe ele would lose a decent amount of damage if pvp balance was applied to pve. While it is hard to say conclusively (much harder than I want to bother with), there is a high probability that if pvp balance was applied to pve, and the damage benchmarks were redone, rev would probably be the lowest on the list and by a fairly large margin. This is because since people started doing these benchmarks, rev has always been at or near the bottom of the list for power damage, and as such has received a very high number of pve specific damage buffs and pvp specific damage nerfs over the years, yet despite all that it is still at the bottom of the pve dps rankings.

    With regards to self buffing capabilities, yes rev can self stack might better than most classes though they can all self stack 25 might if they build for it. What this does is allow rev to catch-up with and slightly surpass higher potential dps builds that can't stack might. Balance wise it makes sense for the might stacker to surpass the non might stacker all else being equal because might can be countered with boon rip unlike higher natural damage, and a non might stacker can potentially gain might from an ally to gain even higher damage where a self might stacker is already capped and gains nothing.

    With regards to classes not running max damage, this is obviously true aside from meme builds. Most classes run at least 1 defensive traitline and 2 defensive utilities in their meta builds with the exceptions being herald and non blood necros. Pure pvp'ers like to say that weaver does too low of damage, but they don't consider that standard weaver build is using almost full defensive traits, utilities, and a mender's amulet while using a fairly defensive rotation dipping into water to riptide off cool down almost every time. A weaver with fire, air, and marauder does an absurd amount of damage but dies insanely easily so it isn't really worth it (see which is wvw but still way more damage than a rev could do in the same settings). Meta rev on the other hand has decent enough baseline survivability to not be a rally bot, so they go nearly full damage with their build to compensate the inherently low damage potential.

  • Solori.6025Solori.6025 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 6, 2018

    @ArthurDent.9538 said:

    @everyman.4375 said:

    @JayAction.9056 said:

    @Alatar.7364 said:

    @rowdy.5107 said:
    rev is just a poor mans thief in my opinion. fun class to play. but thieves and mesmers do everything a rev can do, but so much better.

    Funny, the thieves say that Rev is a rich mans Thief.
    Tell me, what exactly is that "everything" which thieves can do better?

    Thief has;

    Way higher damage than rev, it’s no competition. Even in a PVE environment it’s not even close. Power vs Power

    High mobility than rev/sustain (once again no competition). Thief can cross entire DBL in like a minute.

    People keep complying on rev because they lose to Revs that are nowhere near their own skill level. Rev has the LOWEST power damage by about 20-30% and LOWEST burst but people died to Rev hardest hitting attack and just can’t take it mentally.

    I don't honestly know if you play PvP, Revs have one of the best burst in the game right now an i don't know how you can't notice it, maybe you don't see a lot of decent revenants but still. Claming that they have the lowest power damage ? kitten

    https://snowcrows.com/benchmarks/
    When max damage builds are objectively compared between all the classes, rev along with necro are the 2 bottom power dps classes in the game. Necro was slightly higher before the rune and sigil update and herald simply hasn't been updated, so it will probably be a bit lower from the scholar rune change, regardless every other class has a power build that does 2-10k more dps than rev. There are a few problems with applying these numbers to pvp: there are a lot of skill splits currently so pvp balance is quite different from pve, some classes can self buff better than others which is more important in pvp, and classes don't run max damage builds in pvp.

    With regards to skill splits between game modes, most classes except for maybe ele would lose a decent amount of damage if pvp balance was applied to pve. While it is hard to say conclusively (much harder than I want to bother with), there is a high probability that if pvp balance was applied to pve, and the damage benchmarks were redone, rev would probably be the lowest on the list and by a fairly large margin. This is because since people started doing these benchmarks, rev has always been at or near the bottom of the list for power damage, and as such has received a very high number of pve specific damage buffs and pvp specific damage nerfs over the years, yet despite all that it is still at the bottom of the pve dps rankings.

    With regards to self buffing capabilities, yes rev can self stack might better than most classes though they can all self stack 25 might if they build for it. What this does is allow rev to catch-up with and slightly surpass higher potential dps builds that can't stack might. Balance wise it makes sense for the might stacker to surpass the non might stacker all else being equal because might can be countered with boon rip unlike higher natural damage, and a non might stacker can potentially gain might from an ally to gain even higher damage where a self might stacker is already capped and gains nothing.

    With regards to classes not running max damage, this is obviously true aside from meme builds. Most classes run at least 1 defensive traitline and 2 defensive utilities in their meta builds with the exceptions being herald and non blood necros. Pure pvp'ers like to say that weaver does too low of damage, but they don't consider that standard weaver build is using almost full defensive traits, utilities, and a mender's amulet while using a fairly defensive rotation dipping into water to riptide off cool down almost every time. A weaver with fire, air, and marauder does an absurd amount of damage but dies insanely easily so it isn't really worth it (see which is wvw but still way more damage than a rev could do in the same settings). Meta rev on the other hand has decent enough baseline survivability to not be a rally bot, so they go nearly full damage with their build to compensate the inherently low damage potential.

    Why are you bringing WvW and PvE discussions in a spvp thread?
    Like those modes are HIGHLY irrelevant to the entire discussion at hand.
    Why even attempt to draw a comparison or even bring up those two game modes?

    Tingle my stingleberry

  • ArthurDent.9538ArthurDent.9538 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Solori.6025 said:

    @ArthurDent.9538 said:

    @everyman.4375 said:

    @JayAction.9056 said:

    @Alatar.7364 said:

    @rowdy.5107 said:
    rev is just a poor mans thief in my opinion. fun class to play. but thieves and mesmers do everything a rev can do, but so much better.

    Funny, the thieves say that Rev is a rich mans Thief.
    Tell me, what exactly is that "everything" which thieves can do better?

    Thief has;

    Way higher damage than rev, it’s no competition. Even in a PVE environment it’s not even close. Power vs Power

    High mobility than rev/sustain (once again no competition). Thief can cross entire DBL in like a minute.

    People keep complying on rev because they lose to Revs that are nowhere near their own skill level. Rev has the LOWEST power damage by about 20-30% and LOWEST burst but people died to Rev hardest hitting attack and just can’t take it mentally.

    I don't honestly know if you play PvP, Revs have one of the best burst in the game right now an i don't know how you can't notice it, maybe you don't see a lot of decent revenants but still. Claming that they have the lowest power damage ? kitten

    https://snowcrows.com/benchmarks/
    When max damage builds are objectively compared between all the classes, rev along with necro are the 2 bottom power dps classes in the game. Necro was slightly higher before the rune and sigil update and herald simply hasn't been updated, so it will probably be a bit lower from the scholar rune change, regardless every other class has a power build that does 2-10k more dps than rev. There are a few problems with applying these numbers to pvp: there are a lot of skill splits currently so pvp balance is quite different from pve, some classes can self buff better than others which is more important in pvp, and classes don't run max damage builds in pvp.

    With regards to skill splits between game modes, most classes except for maybe ele would lose a decent amount of damage if pvp balance was applied to pve. While it is hard to say conclusively (much harder than I want to bother with), there is a high probability that if pvp balance was applied to pve, and the damage benchmarks were redone, rev would probably be the lowest on the list and by a fairly large margin. This is because since people started doing these benchmarks, rev has always been at or near the bottom of the list for power damage, and as such has received a very high number of pve specific damage buffs and pvp specific damage nerfs over the years, yet despite all that it is still at the bottom of the pve dps rankings.

    With regards to self buffing capabilities, yes rev can self stack might better than most classes though they can all self stack 25 might if they build for it. What this does is allow rev to catch-up with and slightly surpass higher potential dps builds that can't stack might. Balance wise it makes sense for the might stacker to surpass the non might stacker all else being equal because might can be countered with boon rip unlike higher natural damage, and a non might stacker can potentially gain might from an ally to gain even higher damage where a self might stacker is already capped and gains nothing.

    With regards to classes not running max damage, this is obviously true aside from meme builds. Most classes run at least 1 defensive traitline and 2 defensive utilities in their meta builds with the exceptions being herald and non blood necros. Pure pvp'ers like to say that weaver does too low of damage, but they don't consider that standard weaver build is using almost full defensive traits, utilities, and a mender's amulet while using a fairly defensive rotation dipping into water to riptide off cool down almost every time. A weaver with fire, air, and marauder does an absurd amount of damage but dies insanely easily so it isn't really worth it (see which is wvw but still way more damage than a rev could do in the same settings). Meta rev on the other hand has decent enough baseline survivability to not be a rally bot, so they go nearly full damage with their build to compensate the inherently low damage potential.

    Why are you bringing WvW and PvE discussions in a spvp thread?
    Like those modes are HIGHLY irrelevant to the entire discussion at hand.
    Why even attempt to draw a comparison or even bring up those two game modes?

    Because there is a debate about whether revenant damage is high compared to other classes and the only non anecdotal evidence available to us is through pve. So we take a look at the data we have, consider all factors on why it would be different in pvp and conclude that rev probably has a lower damage potential then the other classes but gets closer to it in practical application. It is simple.

  • Solori.6025Solori.6025 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 6, 2018

    @ArthurDent.9538 said:

    @Solori.6025 said:

    @ArthurDent.9538 said:

    @everyman.4375 said:

    @JayAction.9056 said:

    @Alatar.7364 said:

    @rowdy.5107 said:
    rev is just a poor mans thief in my opinion. fun class to play. but thieves and mesmers do everything a rev can do, but so much better.

    Funny, the thieves say that Rev is a rich mans Thief.
    Tell me, what exactly is that "everything" which thieves can do better?

    Thief has;

    Way higher damage than rev, it’s no competition. Even in a PVE environment it’s not even close. Power vs Power

    High mobility than rev/sustain (once again no competition). Thief can cross entire DBL in like a minute.

    People keep complying on rev because they lose to Revs that are nowhere near their own skill level. Rev has the LOWEST power damage by about 20-30% and LOWEST burst but people died to Rev hardest hitting attack and just can’t take it mentally.

    I don't honestly know if you play PvP, Revs have one of the best burst in the game right now an i don't know how you can't notice it, maybe you don't see a lot of decent revenants but still. Claming that they have the lowest power damage ? kitten

    https://snowcrows.com/benchmarks/
    When max damage builds are objectively compared between all the classes, rev along with necro are the 2 bottom power dps classes in the game. Necro was slightly higher before the rune and sigil update and herald simply hasn't been updated, so it will probably be a bit lower from the scholar rune change, regardless every other class has a power build that does 2-10k more dps than rev. There are a few problems with applying these numbers to pvp: there are a lot of skill splits currently so pvp balance is quite different from pve, some classes can self buff better than others which is more important in pvp, and classes don't run max damage builds in pvp.

    With regards to skill splits between game modes, most classes except for maybe ele would lose a decent amount of damage if pvp balance was applied to pve. While it is hard to say conclusively (much harder than I want to bother with), there is a high probability that if pvp balance was applied to pve, and the damage benchmarks were redone, rev would probably be the lowest on the list and by a fairly large margin. This is because since people started doing these benchmarks, rev has always been at or near the bottom of the list for power damage, and as such has received a very high number of pve specific damage buffs and pvp specific damage nerfs over the years, yet despite all that it is still at the bottom of the pve dps rankings.

    With regards to self buffing capabilities, yes rev can self stack might better than most classes though they can all self stack 25 might if they build for it. What this does is allow rev to catch-up with and slightly surpass higher potential dps builds that can't stack might. Balance wise it makes sense for the might stacker to surpass the non might stacker all else being equal because might can be countered with boon rip unlike higher natural damage, and a non might stacker can potentially gain might from an ally to gain even higher damage where a self might stacker is already capped and gains nothing.

    With regards to classes not running max damage, this is obviously true aside from meme builds. Most classes run at least 1 defensive traitline and 2 defensive utilities in their meta builds with the exceptions being herald and non blood necros. Pure pvp'ers like to say that weaver does too low of damage, but they don't consider that standard weaver build is using almost full defensive traits, utilities, and a mender's amulet while using a fairly defensive rotation dipping into water to riptide off cool down almost every time. A weaver with fire, air, and marauder does an absurd amount of damage but dies insanely easily so it isn't really worth it (see which is wvw but still way more damage than a rev could do in the same settings). Meta rev on the other hand has decent enough baseline survivability to not be a rally bot, so they go nearly full damage with their build to compensate the inherently low damage potential.

    Why are you bringing WvW and PvE discussions in a spvp thread?
    Like those modes are HIGHLY irrelevant to the entire discussion at hand.
    Why even attempt to draw a comparison or even bring up those two game modes?

    Because there is a debate about whether revenant damage is high compared to other classes and the only non anecdotal evidence available to us is through pve.

    This is a horrible comparison as the data does not translate into any realistic spvp scenarios or even accurate ability values. It's like comparing apples to doritos, the only thing they have in common is they are food...

    You are trying to justify something with unrelated data, that's not at all simple that is lazy.
    If you want to find accurate data on whether or not Rev has low or high burst you can do a few things.
    Go PVP --
    Then after that
    Do some more pvp..
    Repeat this for every class ( would recommend getting friends,like snow crows does)
    Notate the damage values in spvp
    Come back and make a detailed comparison as you just did.
    It will be more relevant, and actually hold some type of value rather than using unrelated and innaccurate data to make a point.

    Edit:
    Also if we are going by the logic of using pve data.

    Condition Renegade should be top spec for pvp
    Warriors should be running condi zerker-
    Mesmers should all be chrono power
    Holo should be condition
    rangers shouldnt be using longbow
    Reapers shouldn't exist in spvp at all
    Firebrand shouldnt be support as Chrono does it better.
    All theives should only be deadeye rifle and dominate spvp with an iron fist.

    Tingle my stingleberry

  • Ario.8964Ario.8964 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @JayAction.9056 said:

    @everyman.4375 said:

    @JayAction.9056 said:

    @Alatar.7364 said:

    @rowdy.5107 said:
    rev is just a poor mans thief in my opinion. fun class to play. but thieves and mesmers do everything a rev can do, but so much better.

    Funny, the thieves say that Rev is a rich mans Thief.
    Tell me, what exactly is that "everything" which thieves can do better?

    Thief has;

    Way higher damage than rev, it’s no competition. Even in a PVE environment it’s not even close. Power vs Power

    High mobility than rev/sustain (once again no competition). Thief can cross entire DBL in like a minute.

    People keep complying on rev because they lose to Revs that are nowhere near their own skill level. Rev has the LOWEST power damage by about 20-30% and LOWEST burst but people died to Rev hardest hitting attack and just can’t take it mentally.

    I don't honestly know if you play PvP, Revs have one of the best burst in the game right now an i don't know how you can't notice it, maybe you don't see a lot of decent revenants but still. Claming that they have the lowest power damage ? kitten

    You don’t know if I play PVP? You must be low ranked

    @Ario.8964 said:

    @JayAction.9056 said:
    @Alatar.7364

    you did about 20% less damage than your claimed scenario with 13 might and 8 vuln on a thief with none of the possible damage reductions. I assumed best case scenario in hopes your claim could magically happen.

    Thief can burst much higher than that

    Everything I said still stands.

    @Ario.8964

    I don’t take screens of daily occurrences. Though Im not near my computer to post screens atm.

    So basically, you have 0 evidence and are making baseless claims. Got it.

    Do you ever look at the leaderboard? I’ve been trashing people since the game has been out consistently. I don’t take screens of daily occurrences dude. I’ve been ranked 50+ plenty. You have to beat near everyone for that...

    I look at the leaderboard, and when I see that the #1 player is a 1 shot DE I stop looking because that alone shows how absurd the leaderboard is to begin with. Rank means nothing and the fact that you have it drilled into your head that being on the leaderboard means you "farm every rev NA" baffles me. Is your ego THAT big? Or could it be that you still have 0 evidence of these "daily occurrences" you have been mentioning and are making poor excuses because someone finally called you out? If it's a daily thing, take 2 seconds out of your normal routine to press 1 button for a screenshot of you farming all these revs and post it. It's not hard, the problem is that you can't and won't because it simply isn't true. Better yet, go and take unedited videos of you"farming" lora, fahad, rarnark, mur, and zol on their revs 1v1 and I will write you a personal apology post admitting how wrong I am. Until then, cut the BS.

  • JayAction.9056JayAction.9056 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 6, 2018

    @Ario.8964 said:

    @JayAction.9056 said:

    @everyman.4375 said:

    @JayAction.9056 said:

    @Alatar.7364 said:

    @rowdy.5107 said:
    rev is just a poor mans thief in my opinion. fun class to play. but thieves and mesmers do everything a rev can do, but so much better.

    Funny, the thieves say that Rev is a rich mans Thief.
    Tell me, what exactly is that "everything" which thieves can do better?

    Thief has;

    Way higher damage than rev, it’s no competition. Even in a PVE environment it’s not even close. Power vs Power

    High mobility than rev/sustain (once again no competition). Thief can cross entire DBL in like a minute.

    People keep complying on rev because they lose to Revs that are nowhere near their own skill level. Rev has the LOWEST power damage by about 20-30% and LOWEST burst but people died to Rev hardest hitting attack and just can’t take it mentally.

    I don't honestly know if you play PvP, Revs have one of the best burst in the game right now an i don't know how you can't notice it, maybe you don't see a lot of decent revenants but still. Claming that they have the lowest power damage ? kitten

    You don’t know if I play PVP? You must be low ranked

    @Ario.8964 said:

    @JayAction.9056 said:
    @Alatar.7364

    you did about 20% less damage than your claimed scenario with 13 might and 8 vuln on a thief with none of the possible damage reductions. I assumed best case scenario in hopes your claim could magically happen.

    Thief can burst much higher than that

    Everything I said still stands.

    @Ario.8964

    I don’t take screens of daily occurrences. Though Im not near my computer to post screens atm.

    So basically, you have 0 evidence and are making baseless claims. Got it.

    Do you ever look at the leaderboard? I’ve been trashing people since the game has been out consistently. I don’t take screens of daily occurrences dude. I’ve been ranked 50+ plenty. You have to beat near everyone for that...

    I look at the leaderboard, and when I see that the #1 player is a 1 shot DE I stop looking because that alone shows how absurd the leaderboard is to begin with. Rank means nothing and the fact that you have it drilled into your head that being on the leaderboard means you "farm every rev NA" baffles me. Is your ego THAT big? Or could it be that you still have 0 evidence of these "daily occurrences" you have been mentioning and are making poor excuses because someone finally called you out? If it's a daily thing, take 2 seconds out of your normal routine to press 1 button for a screenshot of you farming all these revs and post it. It's not hard, the problem is that you can't and won't because it simply isn't true. Better yet, go and take unedited videos of you"farming" lora, fahad, rarnark, mur, and zol on their revs 1v1 and I will write you a personal apology post admitting how wrong I am. Until then, cut the BS.

    @Ario.8964 said:

    @JayAction.9056 said:

    @everyman.4375 said:

    @JayAction.9056 said:

    @Alatar.7364 said:

    @rowdy.5107 said:
    rev is just a poor mans thief in my opinion. fun class to play. but thieves and mesmers do everything a rev can do, but so much better.

    Funny, the thieves say that Rev is a rich mans Thief.
    Tell me, what exactly is that "everything" which thieves can do better?

    Thief has;

    Way higher damage than rev, it’s no competition. Even in a PVE environment it’s not even close. Power vs Power

    High mobility than rev/sustain (once again no competition). Thief can cross entire DBL in like a minute.

    People keep complying on rev because they lose to Revs that are nowhere near their own skill level. Rev has the LOWEST power damage by about 20-30% and LOWEST burst but people died to Rev hardest hitting attack and just can’t take it mentally.

    I don't honestly know if you play PvP, Revs have one of the best burst in the game right now an i don't know how you can't notice it, maybe you don't see a lot of decent revenants but still. Claming that they have the lowest power damage ? kitten

    You don’t know if I play PVP? You must be low ranked

    @Ario.8964 said:

    @JayAction.9056 said:
    @Alatar.7364

    you did about 20% less damage than your claimed scenario with 13 might and 8 vuln on a thief with none of the possible damage reductions. I assumed best case scenario in hopes your claim could magically happen.

    Thief can burst much higher than that

    Everything I said still stands.

    @Ario.8964

    I don’t take screens of daily occurrences. Though Im not near my computer to post screens atm.

    So basically, you have 0 evidence and are making baseless claims. Got it.

    Do you ever look at the leaderboard? I’ve been trashing people since the game has been out consistently. I don’t take screens of daily occurrences dude. I’ve been ranked 50+ plenty. You have to beat near everyone for that...

    I look at the leaderboard, and when I see that the #1 player is a 1 shot DE I stop looking because that alone shows how absurd the leaderboard is to begin with. Rank means nothing and the fact that you have it drilled into your head that being on the leaderboard means you "farm every rev NA" baffles me. Is your ego THAT big? Or could it be that you still have 0 evidence of these "daily occurrences" you have been mentioning and are making poor excuses because someone finally called you out? If it's a daily thing, take 2 seconds out of your normal routine to press 1 button for a screenshot of you farming all these revs and post it. It's not hard, the problem is that you can't and won't because it simply isn't true. Better yet, go and take unedited videos of you"farming" lora, fahad, rarnark, mur, and zol on their revs 1v1 and I will write you a personal apology post admitting how wrong I am. Until then, cut the BS.

    Dude if you're so great let me see you get top 10. Leaderboard is literally everything lmfao.

    Rank means "nothing"? Dude come into reality.

    Lora? Mediocre at rev.... and loses to me playing Holo, while I'm on Rev. LMFAO

    Mur????? Doesn't even play rev, and i beat him while I'm on rev easily.

    Rarnark???? who is this????? This person plays rev? Dude you just be saying stuff that isn't even true lmfao...

    ZOL???? I smash him every game dude.

    If leaderboard doesn't mean anything why are you even mentioning those names? Have you ever even been top 25? I can't take you serious with all this emotional kitten dude. The leaderboard is there for a reason bro.

    Clown isn't that great ima be real... but I'm pretty sure he will farm you lol.... DO YOU EVEN HAVE A TOP 25 TITLE? HAVE YOU EVER EXISTED IN TOP 25.

    You must not be high rated at all dude. The fact I have to even convince you of this says you haven't been playing high rating at least for a good year or long if you ever have lmfao. Ima do like Naru and stop arguing with everybody so clueless on the forums lmfao.

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Well I mean, it does do rather a lot of damage just like holo. The only small comfort is at least rev takes devastation and damage traits in multiple lines unlike soulbeast and holo that trait utility and do insane damage regardless.

  • JayAction.9056JayAction.9056 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 6, 2018

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @Alatar.7364 said:

    @JayAction.9056 said:
    @Alatar.7364

    you did about 20% less damage than your claimed scenario with 13 might and 8 vuln on a thief with none of the possible damage reductions. I assumed best case scenario in hopes your claim could magically happen.

    Thief can burst much higher than that

    Everything I said still stands.

    @Ario.8964

    I don’t take screens of daily occurrences. Though Im not near my computer to post screens atm.

    Nothing you said stands.
    The vul was done by SW, D'Uh.
    You said I did 9.7 with zerk and 25 mights, I did 8.2 with Marauder and 13 stacks.
    Real case scenario would be 25 stacks which equals roughly the dmg I stated original.
    Nothing you say stands. You got a proof but you deliberately chose to ignore it. Nothing you said stands...

    JayAction is the incissor of revs.

    Here comes big brother crying on the forums after he’s literally been farmed at spawn.

    Nice jokes bro.

  • Alatar.7364Alatar.7364 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    JayAction is the incissor of revs.

    Amen

    ~ I Aear cân ven na mar

  • Goodness I felt like we're approaching LoL level of toxicity on this thread, where people just use "farm" and "cry" like that means something.

    At least put up some evidence on your claims, someone already did, so burden of evidence shifts.

    [RED] Crimson Sunspears...your small family guild since 2015.

  • Solori.6025Solori.6025 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Master Ketsu.4569 said:

    The dark secret of GW2 balance is that if the same lack of scrub pandering that went into Rev was applied to the design of every other spec then GW2 pvp would be in a much better state and possibly still have a professional Esports league.

    ...Even you know that is wishful thinking. The spvp community wouldn't survive if people actually had to pay attention to things they and their opponents were doing in order to be successful. That was made apparent in the pre-beta weekends

    Tingle my stingleberry

  • Noha.3749Noha.3749 Member ✭✭✭

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @Noha.3749 said:

    @Koen.1327 said:

    @Noha.3749 said:
    i cant understand how you dont see that a thief got way better mobility than a revenant.
    Its not even a competition, thieves got the best mobility ingame and their entire kit is all about evasion and mobility.

    Every thief runs a shortbow, and with shortbow and steal alone they rock the field with mobility, now add in daredevil dodges for more mobility, shadowstep, MH sword 2 heck, even heartseeker is a decent mobility option if MH dagger.

    it wont ever be a contest, thieves got most mobility in game and thats completely fine, thats what they are about.

    it depends on the situation, roaming around with a shortbow, or racing towards a node yea d/p thief wins for sure, because of this has an additional role of taking decapping to the extreme

    in +1 situations, when an enemy duelist flees the node and you need to kill it will be rev who has instant 1800 port (pt+s5), with another 1200 coming 5 seconds later. Sure this is something a thief can match using shortbow and ports (and back if needed), but at a much higher cost.
    Rev can reset much faster, and do this over and over again, all utilies and skills are low cooldown.

    you only have to kite for 10 seconds towards a nice safe no port spot, or just wait 10 seconds trying to pick a target to have 100% energy in shiro, turning you into an absolute deathmachine with really no counter other than no port spots itself.

    I still completely dissagree :p (isnt it lovely that we all have different opinions xD?)

    Sure a revenant got great "burst engage", but using up pt + s5 you really only have enough energy for a single shortened burstrotation, and switching into glint to add up with more burst locks you our of shiros mobility options for the duration. They do however bring great cleave and distruption against multiple opponents.
    = Fast engage, great burst, avrage disengage

    A thief can s2 through a wall for (is it 900 range?) (or shadowshot if d/p for 600range), steal with 1200 range, shadowstep 1200 range, shortbow5 whenever for whatever innitiative there is to spare for 900range and none of this really effects their way to disengage or burst. Also alot of thieves run that heal+dodge thingy with is it.. 300range?.
    I do think revenants burst is harder though, but a thief is more "disruptive" against a single target with boonrip + daze(if s/d), daze+daze(if d/p) and alot of the damage actually comes from the auto attacks and "well timed" dazes/boonrips.
    = fastest engage, good burst, great single target distruption, great disengage.

    Yeah, thief can out mobilty most classes from a to b, but has little to no iniaitve left to be a real threat where as rev can still crazy dangerous.

    A thief can travel 2400 without using a single innitiative. that argument will never work :p
    Any good thief travels faster and further than anything else and still got plenty of innitiative reserves to pull off "more abilities" than a revenant after thier innitial engage :p i mean comeon man.... I know you do know this unless you are salty bout revenants at the moment for some reason :p

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I genuinely do not understand why anyone would complain about Glint Shiro Herald when Boonbeast and Holo are the most dominant over performing builds right now to hilarious degrees, unless you were a thief with Revs starting to encroach your +1 territory.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • I guess this is what the OP was talking about xD : https://streamable.com/b07fo
    As PT is a teleport skill, If you remove it, you should remove all tp skills (including Mirage thrust and Blink)

  • Alatar.7364Alatar.7364 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Noha.3749 said:

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @Noha.3749 said:

    @Koen.1327 said:

    @Noha.3749 said:
    i cant understand how you dont see that a thief got way better mobility than a revenant.
    Its not even a competition, thieves got the best mobility ingame and their entire kit is all about evasion and mobility.

    Every thief runs a shortbow, and with shortbow and steal alone they rock the field with mobility, now add in daredevil dodges for more mobility, shadowstep, MH sword 2 heck, even heartseeker is a decent mobility option if MH dagger.

    it wont ever be a contest, thieves got most mobility in game and thats completely fine, thats what they are about.

    it depends on the situation, roaming around with a shortbow, or racing towards a node yea d/p thief wins for sure, because of this has an additional role of taking decapping to the extreme

    in +1 situations, when an enemy duelist flees the node and you need to kill it will be rev who has instant 1800 port (pt+s5), with another 1200 coming 5 seconds later. Sure this is something a thief can match using shortbow and ports (and back if needed), but at a much higher cost.
    Rev can reset much faster, and do this over and over again, all utilies and skills are low cooldown.

    you only have to kite for 10 seconds towards a nice safe no port spot, or just wait 10 seconds trying to pick a target to have 100% energy in shiro, turning you into an absolute deathmachine with really no counter other than no port spots itself.

    I still completely dissagree :p (isnt it lovely that we all have different opinions xD?)

    Sure a revenant got great "burst engage", but using up pt + s5 you really only have enough energy for a single shortened burstrotation, and switching into glint to add up with more burst locks you our of shiros mobility options for the duration. They do however bring great cleave and distruption against multiple opponents.
    = Fast engage, great burst, avrage disengage

    A thief can s2 through a wall for (is it 900 range?) (or shadowshot if d/p for 600range), steal with 1200 range, shadowstep 1200 range, shortbow5 whenever for whatever innitiative there is to spare for 900range and none of this really effects their way to disengage or burst. Also alot of thieves run that heal+dodge thingy with is it.. 300range?.
    I do think revenants burst is harder though, but a thief is more "disruptive" against a single target with boonrip + daze(if s/d), daze+daze(if d/p) and alot of the damage actually comes from the auto attacks and "well timed" dazes/boonrips.
    = fastest engage, good burst, great single target distruption, great disengage.

    Yeah, thief can out mobilty most classes from a to b, but has little to no iniaitve left to be a real threat where as rev can still crazy dangerous.

    A thief can travel 2400 without using a single innitiative. that argument will never work :p
    Any good thief travels faster and further than anything else

    Wrong.
    an actual good thief will never use the 2,4 Combo. It wastes the two single most precious assets of its build and using it's Steal part to move puts Thief at INSANE, almost terminal, disadvantage.

    ~ I Aear cân ven na mar

  • tinyreborn.1938tinyreborn.1938 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 7, 2018

    @Eugchriss.2046 said:
    I guess this is what the OP was talking about xD : https://streamable.com/b07fo
    As PT is a teleport skill, If you remove it, you should remove all tp skills (including Mirage thrust and Blink)

    Fyi neither mirage thrust or blink doesnt ignore walls like PT/sword5 . Those skills you try to mention nothing alike . Only skills that are similar is thief signet and steal and sword2

  • Boonbeast and holo are still the best class out there for now imo but revenant (and i'm a revenant player) is crazy in term of dmg output.

    Hopefully it's hard to survive vs condies and if 2 players (or more sometimes) are harrassing. It's simple ... if there's a revenant in the enemy team ... he's the primary target for me. Too dangerous to let him free casting but easily killed if pressured .

  • Eugchriss.2046Eugchriss.2046 Member ✭✭
    edited December 7, 2018

    @tinyreborn.1938 said:

    @Eugchriss.2046 said:
    I guess this is what the OP was talking about xD : https://streamable.com/b07fo
    As PT is a teleport skill, If you remove it, you should remove all tp skills (including Mirage thrust and Blink)

    Fyi neither mirage thrust or blink doesnt ignore walls like PT/sword5 . Those skills you try to mention nothing alike . Only skills that are similar is thief signet and steal and sword2

    Well they actually are. They re all in the category "teleportation skills". While mes/thief/ele ones teleports to a LOCATION, rev/thief/guard/nec ones teleport to a TARGET. They re entirely the same.

  • Miles Smiles.8951Miles Smiles.8951 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 7, 2018


    12k on heavy armor core guard as you can see, marauder+scholar on me, no sword buff or crowd favor yet. Funny how I never hit a mesmer for anywhere near 10k or how you can hit a heavy armor guard for 12k and then weakness glance a soulbeast for 1k. The damage spread is real.

    And yeah @incisorr.9502 you cannot precast other skills with Phase Traversal and you can still react to the second part of the Deathstrike.

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Eugchriss.2046 said:

    @tinyreborn.1938 said:

    @Eugchriss.2046 said:
    I guess this is what the OP was talking about xD : https://streamable.com/b07fo
    As PT is a teleport skill, If you remove it, you should remove all tp skills (including Mirage thrust and Blink)

    Fyi neither mirage thrust or blink doesnt ignore walls like PT/sword5 . Those skills you try to mention nothing alike . Only skills that are similar is thief signet and steal and sword2

    Well they actually are. They re all in the category "teleportation skills". While mes/thief/ele ones teleports to a LOCATION, rev/thief/guard/nec ones teleport to a TARGET. They re entirely the same.

    It's still pretty annoying that ground targeted shadowsteps like shadow step, lightning flash, and blink need line of sight while Phase Traversal, Steal, Infiltrator's Strike and the like can be used through walls with targets having 0 chance to see the opponent coming.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • Eugchriss.2046Eugchriss.2046 Member ✭✭
    edited December 7, 2018

    I am pretty sure it s the same annoyement that the classes which have 0 target TP feel when a class with location TP manage to escape with 1 hp.
    Thus if you want to add line of sight in the TP algorithm, then add it for all kind of TP. Meaning that the mes in my vid could t have TP since there were no line of sight (from his POV) to get up there. The stairs were hidden by a wall (again from his POV).

    I'm just asking for equality. If you guys want line of sight for target TP then let's add it for ALL KIND of TP..

  • @Eugchriss.2046 said:
    I am pretty sure it s the same annoyement that the classes which have 0 target TP feel when a class with location TP manage to escape with 1 hp.
    Thus if you want to add line of sight in the TP algorithm, then add it for all kind of TP. Meaning that the mes in my vid could t have TP since there were no line of sight (from his POV) to get up there. The stairs were hidden by a wall (again from his POV).

    I'm just asking for equality. If you guys want line of sight for target TP then let's add it for ALL KIND of TP..

    Ahahahahahaha ,just ahahhahahaha. Blink can be used regardless of LOS! Breakings news

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