How competitive is WvW in your opinion? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

How competitive is WvW in your opinion?

enkidu.5937enkidu.5937 Member ✭✭
edited November 20, 2018 in WvW

Hey fellow WvWlers,

Back from a 2-year break (desert borderlands, ughh), I just wonder how you would describe WvW atm? It may have changed over time, due to server linking, fight-guild starving, reward tracks etc.

Atm it seem, at the most, some kind of semi-competitive. On one hand, there is still a GvG-option for high-quality fights, and at least some kind of competition between servers that claim the title "best fight server" (btw who is it actually?), or the best server in that region, or the best among those that share the same nationality etc.

On the other hand, constant transferring makes leaderboards feel some kind of meaningless. And server-linking seems like an anti-competitive mechanism:"You are the worst server ever? No prob, Anet helps you out. Get your link and move up to T3 again. Enjoy!".Also, there is no real reward for standing on top. Not even sure, if one gets rewarded with better fights in the upper tiers, or just more massive blobs, and night watchers.

Just from my personal experience, at the beginning, when EBG was a mysterious place, hidden behind a massive queue, it seemed that the commander's skills decided map domination. Then, also the skill gap between casuals and pro's grew bigger, with guilds dominating most of the maps. And today, it seems that there is a stack of 20ish true veterans, that fight for everyone willing to lead them into battle, and that the commander's main skill is to recruit, and entertain, as many casuals as possible to raise up the numbers to 40-60ish, then school them, or accept them, and lead with handbreak on.

Thoughts?

How competitive is WvW in your opinion? 127 votes

competitive
4% 6 votes
semi-competitive
18% 23 votes
casual mode with fight guilds as a competitive option
29% 37 votes
it's nothing but flowers and unicorns, or whatever makes u happy
48% 61 votes
<1

Comments

  • Lexi.1398Lexi.1398 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 20, 2018

    Eh, it's half competitive i guess.

    Most of the competition comes from players themselves as opposed to an actual game mechanic.

    PPT is what decides who wins or loses- for pips, if you have high PPT -> high war score -> more pips (and also more likely to be in higher teir next week), buuut... it's more rewarding to not care about PPT in a way- flip paper keeps/towers back and forth and all sides get more loot, exp, karma, participation, achievement counts. Despite being the main determinate of teir (via warscore), PPT is an inherently uncompetitive thing for that reason, which just seems weird to me. On the other hand if your server actually wants to rise teirs it matters, but what's the incentive there? I'm always happy to get out of t4 (and t1 for that matter, blackgate boring to fight) because servers stuck in t4 get discouraged and eventually on t4 purgatory servers the only thing you can do is roam. Winning servers get stacked by people who love ez fights people who want more pips i assume, wipe the floor for a month, kill at least 1 server in the process, and in the end all they get is a couple hrs worth of extra pips. I wonder if when the alliance system comes it might get more competitive, either gives ppt a real incentive to chase or provides the foundation for other things to introduce competition.

  • Not at all. To be competitive it would need:
    1) Set clear goal(s) of the competition. That they have, but the goal presents little value to most so more attractive ones would be needed.
    2) Balance each and every aspect in respect to viability in relation to reaching said goal and nothing else. This is completely missing, less than a half of the classes (let alone builds) are in fact viable competitively for reaching the matchup victory. The rest are just for floating around and have fun, but that is not what a competition is about.

    Don't think it is a bad thing though, having it non-competitive attracts more people so it can last longer.

  • Hitman.5829Hitman.5829 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Its competitive alright.
    Everyone is competing for the karma and exp from capturing paper towers and forts.

    Charr Warrior Master Race!
    Black Gate Beast Roamer chicken chaser!

  • Israel.7056Israel.7056 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Need a better definition of what you consider competitive as it seems unclear to me from your post.

  • @Israel.7056 said:
    Need a better definition of what you consider competitive as it seems unclear to me from your post.

    That's a bit of a problem, since everyone has his/her/its own definition. Feel free to add yours ;) For me in short: doing a lot that is not fun, in the first place, but helps to work towards a (mutual) goal, and that's where the fun comes from

    What it needs imo:

    Riko.9214 already mentioned:

    • a clear goal to achieve (I guess winning the match-up would be the closest fit)
    • good balance of game mechanics, classes etc.

    I might add:

    • skill-based MM, good players play against each other in the top league, bad players play against each other in the bottom league (or a guild deciding by their own who is welcome and who's not)
    • prizes for the winner
    • clear rules (there seems to be a lot of WvW-ethics around, at least sometimes xD)
    • a ranking system
    • a good system to determine who played better (is sitting in a siege Golem and defending a camp skill? idk xD)
    • fair conditions for every participant (is it fair, that one server starts at desert borderlands? idk)
    • no pay-to-win
      . . . there might be more
  • SkyShroud.2865SkyShroud.2865 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 20, 2018

    Nah, it isn't competitive, not even the fight guilds.

    In competitive scene, real competitive scene. You don't ever see people part of multiple teams competing in the same game or tournament. They belong to one team. In this game, people can join multi guilds and in fight guilds, you do see people part of multiple fight guilds. That alone already make such guilds no longer considered as competitive. Likewise, competitive plaeyrs don't just hop from team to team so frequently. This also not a very welcomed behavior. This is just from philosophy perspective.

    There is also the attitude perspective. Trash talking. Trash talking and words out frustration are complete different things. Competitive people don't trash talks, they don't talk down on other teams or guilds. They are focused on being competitive. In that aspect, this make it such that extremely little guilds are competitive in this game. Also note that it is important to differentiate between retaliation to trash talking and the one who literally initiate the trash talk.

    There is also the balance perspective. Well, you can visit the balance threads.

    There is also the match balance perspective. I mean, you can't consider 20 vs 30 as competitive right?

    This game isn't competitive by design. The community isn't competitive by nature.

    Founder & Leader of Equinox Solstice [TIME], a Singapore-Based International PvX Guild
    Henge of Denravi Server
    www.gw2time.com

    --

    Explanations of WvW Structures & Populations Issues

  • its just a pvd game no wonder most ppl find it boring. World vs Door ! lol

  • Its a video game where you press buttons and pretend that its somehow a real 'competition'.

  • MUDse.7623MUDse.7623 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 20, 2018

    @enkidu.5937 said:

    @Israel.7056 said:
    Need a better definition of what you consider competitive as it seems unclear to me from your post.

    That's a bit of a problem, since everyone has his/her/its own definition. Feel free to add yours ;) For me in short: doing a lot that is not fun, in the first place, but helps to work towards a (mutual) goal, and that's where the fun comes from

    What it needs imo:

    Riko.9214 already mentioned:

    • a clear goal to achieve (I guess winning the match-up would be the closest fit)
    • good balance of game mechanics, classes etc.
    • clear rules (there seems to be a lot of WvW-ethics around, at least sometimes xD)
    • a good system to determine who played better (is sitting in a siege Golem and defending a camp skill? idk xD)

    with a clear goal, clear rules aswell as balance of game mechanics you dont need an additional 'system' to determine who played better as winning will indicate who did play better. tho from your example i guess for you playing better is pulling of more difficult moves instead of doing the best thing you can do in any given moment to achieve victory?
    ever fought a burst ele inside his camp that had multiple golems for stealth bursting?(ele goes down, vapor into golem , golem explodes, full hp stealthed ele bursts you)

    read this, become a better player now.

  • It was never competitive to begin with, and what you have here is already a pale shadow when many that pretended to be competitive already left.

  • Go to PvP.

  • morrolan.9608morrolan.9608 Member ✭✭✭

    Completely non-competitive

  • Jeknar.6184Jeknar.6184 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Some sandbox with open world pvp

    Ferguson's Crossing Mithril Raider (Rank 4444) - PvP Phoenix (Rank 72) - 29k Achievment Points
    Calamis Fatima / Kawagima / Hanna Flintlocke / Sabetha Deadeye

  • Junkpile.7439Junkpile.7439 Member ✭✭✭

    Less competitive than EotM was.

    Low quality trolling since launch
    Seafarer's Rest EotM Hero

  • Klypto.1703Klypto.1703 Member ✭✭✭

    Nope the auctioneers were beaten and sent away from these lands never to return. Although I'm pretty sure anet is working on this plan starting with deadeye where they are going to make a supply consumable that completely counters every class in the game so that there won't be anymore complaining you will soon just throw supply at your enemy and until one side wins.

    Warrior: cannot melee
    Rev: All power damage reflected back to you (unavoidable) and all damage being reflected back is converted into condition damage
    Guardian: Using boons and healing kills all allies within 10000 range
    Ranger: Rapid fire heals the enemy
    Engineer: Turns all turrets and gadgets into terminator dolyaks with lasers on their heads
    necro: all keybinds are removed
    ele: meteor shower summons an asteroid and kills all allies and enemies on all of the maps at once
    mesmer: pushes you into an entry portal and then pulls you out of an exit portal and then turns you into a clone

    All of these things will occur when marked now depending on your class to make the game more competitive.

  • @ArchonWing.9480 said:
    It was never competitive to begin with, and what you have here is already a pale shadow when many that pretended to be competitive already left.

    Eeeeexactly.

  • Israel.7056Israel.7056 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 21, 2018

    I would say it's competitive insofar as people are competing against other people but that the competition itself isn't usually particularly fair.

    It plays out more like a sim war than a sport which was the intent as far as I can tell.

  • borgs.6103borgs.6103 Member ✭✭✭

    It has come to the point of being subjectively competitive. Like P.E. classes or special olympics.

    Hi.

  • I'm ready for the GW3-waiting room.

    Tyyphóón (Thief) | Lil Tyy (Thief) | Mini Tyy (Ele)
    [HUNT] Predatory Instinct | [Caps] Glorious Dappers
    What does not kill me, makes me stronger. -Nietzsche
    Victory is reserved for those who are willing to pay it's price. -Sun Tzu

  • Kraljevo.2801Kraljevo.2801 Member ✭✭
    edited November 21, 2018

    @enkidu.5937 said:
    there is still a GvG-option for high-quality fights
    high-quality fights
    quality

  • enkidu.5937enkidu.5937 Member ✭✭
    edited November 21, 2018

    @Kraljevo.2801 said:
    there is still a GvG-option for high-quality fights
    high-quality fights
    quality

    I'm about to find an up-to-date mind-set, that suits todays WvW, so I can't get around to ask: what does "quality fights" mean for you (definition)? :) (or anyone else who likes to share his mind on this issue, as well

  • XenesisII.1540XenesisII.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Competitive... that ship sailed long ago.
    There's no leader boards for anything.
    T1 just means you have more people and coverage.
    There are no fight servers, now it's a bunch of guilds bandwagoning to a server in the name of alliances to run over enemy servers that have been pillaged for players and now ran over for bags.
    The last NA gvg tournie was filled with guilds that had no business being in a gvg.

    Another derailing post. ^^
    EBG North Keep: One of the village residents will now flee if their home is destroyed!
    Maguuma: Free ppt, come and get it!

  • Trajan.4953Trajan.4953 Member ✭✭✭

    @Junkpile.7439 said:
    Less competitive than EotM was.

    Hehehehe

  • samo.1054samo.1054 Member ✭✭✭

    It's exactly as competitive as it was meant to be - Which is as competitive as people make it.

  • Not competitive at all, there is not a real ranking system to be the best sv since it depends on guilds moving to servers back and forth and for sure not with commanders karma training, or fighting eachother relying on who has the better zerg or blob.
    Roaming wise there can be a bit competition if you like to run small as a havoc squad or solo doing a 1 vs x (3-5) or a small guild 10 players vs a blob. Those challanges could be a bit of a competition but its not like you would get a reward for it aside of karma lootbag or pips hehe, if your really into competition pvp is a great aspect of the game showing competition between skilled players on top rating with tournies :)

    Or atleast thats my opinion of the competition in this game.

  • @kronnokos.6913 said:
    Roaming wise there can be a bit competition if you like to run small as a havoc squad or solo doing a 1 vs x (3-5) or a small guild 10 players vs a blob. Those challanges could be a bit of a competition but its not like you would get a reward for it aside of karma lootbag or pips hehe

    Often reminds me of the Olymic Games: it starts with fencing and shooting, and continues with, depending on the map situation, 100 metres, or 1500 metres, or 110 metre hurdles, sometimes swimming. At the end, the enemy dances for you on the victory ceremony (aka your burrial), or rewards you with siege love. So yeah, there might be some competition, as well, kind of :)

  • @enkidu.5937 said:

    @kronnokos.6913 said:
    Roaming wise there can be a bit competition if you like to run small as a havoc squad or solo doing a 1 vs x (3-5) or a small guild 10 players vs a blob. Those challanges could be a bit of a competition but its not like you would get a reward for it aside of karma lootbag or pips hehe

    Often reminds me of the Olymic Games: it starts with fencing and shooting, and continues with, depending on the map situation, 100 metres, or 1500 metres, or 110 metre hurdles, sometimes swimming. At the end, the enemy dances for you on the victory ceremony (aka your burrial), or rewards you with siege love. So yeah, there might be some competition, as well, kind of :)

    Welp, true that not much we can do about it, its mostly to make them remindable of who they are and annoy players. But yeah, stuff happens to challenge xD

  • Non competitive at all,the mode got degraded when a good portion of the guild drivers can't function without a spy and saboteurs.
    Add on top of it shady deals between servers and guilds,and basically wvw is but a shade of what it was at launch.
    Still functional to grind your wvw armor,but shouldn't expect any skill play on it.

  • I think it's just casual stuff...nobody cares if they win or lose, no benefit at all. Ticket system and legendary armours make WvW a farming ground. I do agree they are great, but it doesn't encourage you to win at all. I have moved to NA servers recently after playing in EU for a long time (since launch lol) as I was a little disappointed in how EU servers were competitive. And man...I am so sad I did it. Top NA servers are not even close to mid EU servers, any top EU server would simply farm top NA server. WvW needs massive revamp, it's still dieing.

    Why NA servers suck in WvW?

  • It's casual with moments of competitive play here and there. But mostly just empty-headed blobbing and backcapping.

    But if your hand touches metal, I swear by my pretty floral bonnet I will end you.

  • Iozeph.5617Iozeph.5617 Member ✭✭✭

    There's no option in your poll for, 'not competitive at all due to population and profession imbalances that haven't been sorted in the past and still won't be sorted with the coming of the dubious 'alliances' mechanic. All the other things listed here are just dressings draped over the rot at the core.

  • Dayra.7405Dayra.7405 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 25, 2018

    A match that last 158 hours and has mostly (20 out of 24 hours) only a handful people running around on a place for 1200 can be hardly competitive.

  • Everyone knows who they can and can't beat at this point. When you have a map queue running from 20 guys, you know you're doing something right. Its not competitive though because of the running and no incentive to stay and try and win. People would rather run away, waypoint out, and capture an empty tower/keep/castle elsewhere because it gives them a false sense of accomplishment.

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 26, 2018

    WvW is a karma train map like Orr used to be... If you go to WvW to kill players, just about everyone will remind you that you're destroying WvW and not playing the mode properly.

    Anet have even listened to these players and have made arrangements to squash out anything but karma trains, just look to automatic upgrades, the watchtower, guild hall upgrades aimed at wvw that are nearly unobtainable to small guilds, marked feature, traps, fortified gates and so forth for the evidence of this.

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    CLICK HERE FOR A FREE SCREEN CLEANING SERVICE
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion - Playing till last friend leaves.

  • RedShark.9548RedShark.9548 Member ✭✭✭✭

    There isnt even any reason to win a match rly... Some more pips, wow great.
    Not really a reason for a server to be competetive as far as im concerned. Ppl just stack where they can karmatrain as best as possible

  • Straegen.2938Straegen.2938 Member ✭✭✭

    There is no reliable score in WvW. The built in scoring still heavily favors servers with good coverage. The KDR method typically favors servers with greater populations. Competition in WvW is a variable state. When 2-3 servers get even numbers and duke it out, WvW is one of the most fun parts of GW2 hands down. When one server dominates a match, WvW can be a soulless game mode more akin to PvE farming.

  • It is not competitive for one pure reason: there is no matchmaking based upon skill, play-time, timezone. It is stagnant except for those willing to bandwagon in grossly unfair ways to your profiting advantage. This also creates a setting where new players can never even get into the mode. Loyal servers may have been on par before, but it’s stagnating in a big way now. You’re about to lose wvw, in fact it is already really too late to recover popultion health. For years gvgs and competitive guild fighting was some of the most fun end-game content and it’s never even been officially sanctioned for most of its existence. I’m really happy for the idea of alliances and attempts to change this now. It should have been done much sooner, but at least something is happening. I fear the competitive quality of the mode is kind of a joke now with bandwagoning totally ruining the challenge. If you give people the chance to pay for an unfair advantage, they will take it every time.

  • Gop.8713Gop.8713 Member ✭✭✭

    Chose option 4, it's as competitive as you'd like to make it I guess . . ?

    Your complaint about link servers and the lack of rewards for 'winning' misses the mark though. Player behavior indicates the majority of players are not looking for a balanced game mode and anet cannot introduce rewards for winning unless they can provide a balanced game mode. So they're in a bit of a catch-22, if they want to created a more interesting, competitive game environment they will necessarily anger their playerbase . . .

  • enkidu.5937enkidu.5937 Member ✭✭
    edited November 29, 2018

    @Gop.8713 said:
    Chose option 4, it's as competitive as you'd like to make it I guess . . ?

    Your complaint about link servers and the lack of rewards for 'winning' misses the mark though. Player behavior indicates the majority of players are not looking for a balanced game mode and anet cannot introduce rewards for winning unless they can provide a balanced game mode. So they're in a bit of a catch-22, if they want to created a more interesting, competitive game environment they will necessarily anger their playerbase . . .

    Sure, I totally agree with WvW as a casual mode, with a competitive option for who likes to do it. I made this poll because some ppl claim it to be competitive, and thus coordinated meta would be the only way to go to have fun. "That one Ranger is ruining the fun of the other 49 zerglings.", just wanted to know if these other 49 zergling really take WvW as a competitive game mode. Obviously, thats not the case. Though this poll doesn't reveal if someone who says "its a casual mode" also wants it to be a casual mode, or maybe whould like it to be competitive.

<1
©2010–2018 ArenaNet, LLC. All rights reserved. Guild Wars, Guild Wars 2, Heart of Thorns, Guild Wars 2: Path of Fire, ArenaNet, NCSOFT, the Interlocking NC Logo, and all associated logos and designs are trademarks or registered trademarks of NCSOFT Corporation. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners.