Raiding is on the verge of destroying huge segments of the GW2 community, if it hasn't already — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Raiding is on the verge of destroying huge segments of the GW2 community, if it hasn't already

I wish I could post this anonymously....

I write this as a semi-casual, semi-serious player. I've played GW2 off-and-on since launch. I've also raided regularly, in other games, at "competent" levels, but never at top-tier / world-first / competitive levels....In those times, I loved raiding....I loved figuring out that last 1% of mechanics, or positioning. or build....that let us finally beat that "impossible" boss.....and I never gave 2 kitten about the gear! Gear was only a means to an end....to allow us to kill that boss, and have more fun.

But in GW2....I see such a huge rift between raiders and not-raiders.....a rift that grows with every update, every raid...

Even in my own guilds, when recruiting for their raid team(s)....they are only interested in "experienced" raiders. I understand their view...they did their time in PUG raids back in 2016 and 2017, learning mechanics and classes and how to build a raid team. They don't want to waste infinitely - 1 sec training others! But at the same time, when I look in LFG, every raid wants me to ping a trophy count...to prove to them that I have tons of kill experience, in every raid.. Or they want to sell me boss kills.....something I'd never, ever, consider paying for!

So what is a 'semi-casual', "competent-but-not-uber DPS", though "wants-to-learn" supposed to do?

<13456

Comments

  • Emberstone.2904Emberstone.2904 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 21, 2018

    @Fallesafe.5932 said:

    @qwerty.8943 said:
    So what is a 'semi-casual', "competent-but-not-uber DPS", though "wants-to-learn" supposed to do?

    Don't worry. The next Guild Wars will come out on mobile, and have such a bad/limited interface that everybody can be an elite raider by the end of a week! But for now... why don't you join the raid-training discord, and group up with other people in the same boat?

    Where can I find this raid-training Discord? I've been wanting to try them out now that my Weaver is geared.

  • sigur.9453sigur.9453 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 21, 2018

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:
    So the minority of casuals are larger then the minority of the raiders that yell at eachother.
    Were is the numbers to back that up Cristalyan

    Are you going to seriously claim here that raiders outnumber casuals?

    i think the important part of her/his sentence was "that yell at each other". as a comment on "I think that you see now the other problem the GW2 community have - a part of it (the small part) despise the other (larger) part." but the discussion is going nowhere anyway.

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @sigur.9453 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:
    So the minority of casuals are larger then the minority of the raiders that yell at eachother.
    Were is the numbers to back that up Cristalyan

    Are you going to seriously claim here that raiders outnumber casuals?

    i think the important part of her/his sentence was "that yell at each other". as a comment on "I think that you see now the other problem the GW2 community have - a part of it (the small part) despise the other (larger) part." but the discussion is going nowhere anyway.

    You got it man.
    The small part of both commuities are yelling at eachother noone knows how big either of those parts are so saying that one is larger then the other is wrong.
    Statistically the casual group is bigger but how many of them really engaging the raiding people?

  • Kanok.3027Kanok.3027 Member ✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Disagree completely. Maybe between dedicated players (who also frequent the forums more) but the vast majority of players in this game do not care about raids, do not care about the drama in raids and have never heard of raid guilds like snowcrows or sites like metabattle.

    Let's not grow something out of proportion which is a forum drama favorite.

    Agreed. I was going to pretty much say this exact thing, but you beat me to it. When people talk about raiding, they don't screech about it. They want to know more. I have never really seen raiders talking garbage to others because they have better things to do or they tell people to join a guild that does raid training.

    Tearing apart the community? Sorry, I'm not buying it.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 21, 2018

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    I guess we're playing completely different games then. Which, by the way, just proves my point about the split existing and being really massive. It's apparently so big that you can't even see the other side anymore.

    Considering I am in 3 guilds with a wide mix of players from hardcore raiders, to casual raiders, to no raiders, not sure I'm the one not seeing the other side.

    Raids are a niche, just as spvp and wvw. 80% of the player base don't give 1 cent about those game modes.

    I do agree though that to the small group of "want to raid players but I don't have a raid yet or entered raids", there is nothing more challenging or toxic. That's based on the very nature of a desire not fulfilled.

  • Yargesh.4965Yargesh.4965 Member ✭✭✭

    @Tzarakiel.7490 said:
    Half the new players I've met wanted to try raids before they found out that it was basically impossible. Most players I've met wanted to try raids, but they could never find an entry point into the raid community.
    The reason why most players don't talk about raids is because they have given up on the raid community.

    Point them to the guild or raid forums where they advertise teaching guild runs?

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 21, 2018

    @Tzarakiel.7490 said:
    Half the new players I've talked to wanted to try raids before they found out that it was basically impossible. Most players I've met wanted to try raids, but they could never find an entry point into the raid community.
    The reason why most players don't talk about raids is because they have given up on the raid community.

    Yet most training runs are devoid of new players. What an oxymoron.

    May I ask, what effort was invested from those said players? Did any of them join a guild which did training runs or a discord channel dedicated to raids? Or was it more of a: I'll join random experienced groups and hope no one notices?

    I've found that in-game, players who are interested in raiding and when pointed to join a training run, usually succeed. That is subjective experience though.

  • Henry.5713Henry.5713 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 21, 2018

    Some people simply want to see a rift in the community and huge game breaking problems. As those might justify the removal or rework of content they personally dislike or more like having raid exclusive rewards avaible in content they like.
    The majority of pro-raiding and anti-raiding talk does indeed seem to happen on the forums. Most people in the game care as much about raids as they do about Esports, which is basically not at all. Nor do they quit the game over the existence of niche content.

    Nothing is particularly hard if you divide it into small jobs. Henry Ford

  • yann.1946yann.1946 Member ✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Kanok.3027 said:
    Tearing apart the community? Really?

    Yes. It has already happened. I have seen firsthand several guilds that completely disintegrated over the issue, and some more that survived, but were hit really hard and never really recovered.

    I'm all over the place in this game and I've rarely ever seen people even talk about raids. I usually see it only on here and very rarely.

    Sure. that's because the rift has already happened. There was a lot of talking within first year or two after raids were inroduced. It stopped, because the rift has grown so big there's nothing even to talk about. Talk requires some common ground, after all, and those split communities have now almost nothing in common with each other.

    In short, introducing raids caused some really negative impact on the community. Whether the end result was a net negative or not may be up to debate, but the fact that some negative consequences did happen isn't.

    While I agree that some negative probably happened, this is true for every update.

  • Klypto.1703Klypto.1703 Member ✭✭✭

    Anet doesn't realize ppl don't even bother doing raids because of these kind of players. If you know how to play your character and whack at one target for hours it might be fun but thats not fun to me.

  • Eramonster.2718Eramonster.2718 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 21, 2018

    @Tzarakiel.7490 said:
    Half the new players I've talked to wanted to try raids before they found out that it was basically impossible. Most players I've met wanted to try raids, but they could never find an entry point into the raid community.

    Might need to elaborate on that, but try to help and guide them till the end if you're really up to it. Don't take this in a bad way; Guide them on how to register for discord and how to use it get into raids. I do know a handful a friends of mine that's not bothered to look up on how to setup for a raid training/ new player's raid. (They got confused and give up trying on how to join using discord). While a new player just started 2 months ago (a random player I met while teaching fractal, in-game friend now) is having 4 pieces of legendary armor from training runs. And nope, never helped him with any raids. He joined the raid training group on his own after he found out about it. If your friend is having a problem finding the entry point, the approach might be wrong.

    If the player is interested, they won't just give up (imo). Patience is required, as you know there are roles-requirement to be filled in raids and this requires some organizing/setting up. Can't just gather 10 random and hope for a success, therefore new players will have problem gathering players to start an own group. Which is a problem for new players, you need to be experienced to lead and X amount of players.

    The reason why most players don't talk about raids is because they have given up on the raid community.

    True to a certain extend, unlikely someone will mention something they've let go. But honestly, there's nothing to talk about unless they're really involved. "I killed Boss" is no different from "I killed Bounty", pointless to share it out. Usually what happened in a raid, is experienced and stays among the members in the raid. I fought with Balthazar, no one will understand except for the person doing the story achievement with me. There will be limited talks between a raider and a non-raider, and there will be some talks between raiders to raiders (mostly screw ups or funny things that happened during raid).

  • Aridon.8362Aridon.8362 Member ✭✭✭

    It's not anets fault that it's destroying a section of the community.

  • @Astralporing.1957 said:
    I guess we're playing completely different games then. Which, by the way, just proves my point about the split existing and being really massive. It's apparently so big that you can't even see the other side anymore.

    I play all modes, how is there a massive split?

    To the starter people can choose with whom they play and form communities. You can change your effort and fit in or find a group that accepts you right now. Alot of the game does not require you to play together raids are the exception. Which is why joining requires more effort.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @DutchRiders.2871 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    I guess we're playing completely different games then. Which, by the way, just proves my point about the split existing and being really massive. It's apparently so big that you can't even see the other side anymore.

    I play all modes, how is there a massive split?

    It's not a split between modes. It's a split between players. The very fact that you can have here players arguing that something that for others is everyday occurence doesn't exist, while both are playing the same content is a proof enough.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • yann.1946yann.1946 Member ✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @DutchRiders.2871 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    I guess we're playing completely different games then. Which, by the way, just proves my point about the split existing and being really massive. It's apparently so big that you can't even see the other side anymore.

    I play all modes, how is there a massive split?

    It's not a split between modes. It's a split between players. The very fact that you can have here players arguing that something that for others is everyday occurence doesn't exist, while both are playing the same content is a proof enough.

    While I get you're argument, it's not completely true in the sense that most people are arguing that the split is not affecting enough people to Warrant seeing it as a problem.

    BTW if I start a random topic about "random thing" is causing a split I could use the same argument because most people would be arguing ING about it as long as enough people care about the topic

  • SkyShroud.2865SkyShroud.2865 Member ✭✭✭✭

    If it is about wanting experienced players, no, it isn't just raid. It is a widespread culture in gw2, people who are willing to train newbies are few in numbers. Even if there are people who will train newbies, not everyone are there because they want to help, some are they to look good. In the chinese culture, we call it realitas or 现实

    In other words, it isn't something unique in gw2, it is something happening in the world but just happen to be downright obvious in gw2. As for how you gonna change that culture which is basically changing the personality or mentality of individuals. All I can say that is not possible. You can highlight it but you never gonna change it, you can only choose to be one not like them and band up like-minded players to create such environment for yourself and like-minded people.

    Founder & Leader of Equinox Solstice [TIME], a Singapore-Based International PvX Guild
    Henge of Denravi Server
    www.gw2time.com

    --

    Explanations of WvW Structures & Populations Issues

  • as soon as I read the title of your post I couldn't resist... for some reason I couldn't get this image out of my head. after reading the post, your concerns seem legitimate.

<13456
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