Raiding is on the verge of destroying huge segments of the GW2 community, if it hasn't already - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Raiding is on the verge of destroying huge segments of the GW2 community, if it hasn't already

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  • Dante.1763Dante.1763 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Tzarakiel.7490 said:
    Half the new players I've talked to wanted to try raids before they found out that it was basically impossible. Most players I've met wanted to try raids, but they could never find an entry point into the raid community.
    The reason why most players don't talk about raids is because they have given up on the raid community.

    Yet most training runs are devoid of new players. What an oxymoron.

    May I ask, what effort was invested from those said players? Did any of them join a guild which did training runs or a discord channel dedicated to raids? Or was it more of a: I'll join random experienced groups and hope no one notices?

    I've found that in-game, players who are interested in raiding and when pointed to join a training run, usually succeed. That is subjective experience though.

    I can honestly say that even to get into a raid training group i had trouble, in the two guilds that im in that do raids simply due to lack of player interest in trying to learn raids, we barely have enough players to fill a raid training group. The only reason i get into the semi static group im with now is because im really good friends with the group leader, and he knows that im good at playing the game, if i didnt have that i wouldnt have ever gotten in.

    Ember Wandertooth(SB), Lucina Fallenflame(Weaver), Kianda Redpaw(Guardian), Kingslayer, Light in the Dark.
    Why Guild Wars is called Guild Wars

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Kanok.3027 said:
    Tearing apart the community? Really?

    Yes. It has already happened. I have seen firsthand several guilds that completely disintegrated over the issue, and some more that survived, but were hit really hard and never really recovered.

    I'm all over the place in this game and I've rarely ever seen people even talk about raids. I usually see it only on here and very rarely.

    Sure. that's because the rift has already happened. There was a lot of talking within first year or two after raids were inroduced. It stopped, because the rift has grown so big there's nothing even to talk about. Talk requires some common ground, after all, and those split communities have now almost nothing in common with each other.

    In short, introducing raids caused some really negative impact on the community. Whether the end result was a net negative or not may be up to debate, but the fact that some negative consequences did happen isn't.

    Some of those guilds got destroyed becouse raids are released so slow not becouse raids entered the game Quantify as an example

  • perilisk.1874perilisk.1874 Member ✭✭✭

    It's pretty easy to ignore raids as a casual. Didn't they change it so that you aren't locked out of getting spirit shards if the raid mastery is still locked? I think that was maybe the only thing that bugged any substantial number of non-raiders. Unless you have your heart set on getting the PvE legendary armor, or really want to see the story of the raid, you aren't really penalized for not participating.

  • @Linken.6345 said:
    As blocki says join training raids or put up your own training, or new people learning lfgs.
    Just dont expect to kill all the bosses you train on the first day mate.

    Or the dev's could just make it require way less effort and nerf it all or come out with an easier difficulty.

  • Dante.1763Dante.1763 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:
    As blocki says join training raids or put up your own training, or new people learning lfgs.
    Just dont expect to kill all the bosses you train on the first day mate.

    Or the dev's could just make it require way less effort and nerf it all or come out with an easier difficulty.

    That will probably never happen, though an easier difficulty with accurate rewards for the easier fights would be nice to see for a training option.

    Ember Wandertooth(SB), Lucina Fallenflame(Weaver), Kianda Redpaw(Guardian), Kingslayer, Light in the Dark.
    Why Guild Wars is called Guild Wars

  • Khisanth.2948Khisanth.2948 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 21, 2018

    @perilisk.1874 said:
    It's pretty easy to ignore raids as a casual. Didn't they change it so that you aren't locked out of getting spirit shards if the raid mastery is still locked? I think that was maybe the only thing that bugged any substantial number of non-raiders. Unless you have your heart set on getting the PvE legendary armor, or really want to see the story of the raid, you aren't really penalized for not participating.

    You are never actually locked out of spirit shards since you also get them as random drops.

    There are probably enough videos around to cover the story.

  • FrizzFreston.5290FrizzFreston.5290 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 21, 2018

    @ArchonWing.9480 said:
    If they didn't have raids, you'd have elitists in dungeons or fractals or whatnot. The good thing about raids is they're confined there now.

    I seriously dont think theyre confined anywhere. Its really just the content that both needs large amount of repitition for some of the interesting rewards and require some rather mild coordination.

    Since most people dont have that much time putting requirements is just one way to filter ppl so their success chance is higher and take less time. They dont want to bother explaining the whole thing everytime and rather just play.

  • @Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:
    As blocki says join training raids or put up your own training, or new people learning lfgs.
    Just dont expect to kill all the bosses you train on the first day mate.

    Or the dev's could just make it require way less effort and nerf it all or come out with an easier difficulty.

    Wings 1-4 are easy to complete right now anyway, Since I no longer raid anymore I have heard W6 being easy aswell along with W5 aswell

  • Blude.6812Blude.6812 Member ✭✭✭

    @qwerty.8943 said:
    I wish I could post this anonymously....

    I write this as a semi-casual, semi-serious player. I've played GW2 off-and-on since launch. I've also raided regularly, in other games, at "competent" levels, but never at top-tier / world-first / competitive levels....In those times, I loved raiding....I loved figuring out that last 1% of mechanics, or positioning. or build....that let us finally beat that "impossible" boss.....and I never gave 2 kitten about the gear! Gear was only a means to an end....to allow us to kill that boss, and have more fun.

    But in GW2....I see such a huge rift between raiders and not-raiders.....a rift that grows with every update, every raid...

    Even in my own guilds, when recruiting for their raid team(s)....they are only interested in "experienced" raiders. I understand their view...they did their time in PUG raids back in 2016 and 2017, learning mechanics and classes and how to build a raid team. They don't want to waste infinitely - 1 sec training others! But at the same time, when I look in LFG, every raid wants me to ping a trophy count...to prove to them that I have tons of kill experience, in every raid.. Or they want to sell me boss kills.....something I'd never, ever, consider paying for!

    So what is a 'semi-casual', "competent-but-not-uber DPS", though "wants-to-learn" supposed to do?

    You are in the wrong guild, find a new one that offers training and build help, but ya I agree about raids being toxic.

  • Organized group pve content is destroying the game. But that's true for all MMOs. I decided against joining any organized pve group in this game and I'm very happy with the game. In WoW I was a mythic raider and this essentially sucked all fun out of the game. The few pve groups I joined in GW2 made me really reconsider if I wanted to do raids/fractals or not.

  • Well the entire problem lies in the game mechanics. Basicly u can go everywhere just join in and get ur rewards. Their is one expection Raids.

    U need to invest time and research. As a semi causual player. Before u go in u have to look first what raids are easy, so u can join in and get some Li. After u are familiar with the game mode u can try the harder Raids. U need proper equiment unlike in the other game modes. ANd u need to know about gamemechanics.

    The Raid community of gw2 is very friendly. If u dont try to join the hardest Raids like Dhuum. Ppl will just carry u.

    First when i tryed Raids. I was looking for VG groups cause it is the first boss. Very bad idea. Just try ur luck in Escort raids, so u get a feeling that about the mechanics. It is one of the easiest Raids. Still if u go in into Escort like u would go into any other game mode it is for sure a failure.

    And again. Raids are easy to access but u have to inest time and research before u can move in. It is unlike the other game modes of gw2.

    Next is ur charcter u choose. Their are Key positions in Raids u cant access as a beginner. Thouse ppl have to know their role. Else it is a fail.
    If u choose a non key position u can get carried easyl with 8 or 9 man who know what they do.

    Next is u have to be honest. I was carried by alot of raiders. Even when i told them i had 0-10 Li. As long as the other raiders know u a re a noob, they can adjust themself to ur failures. If u lie to them and they trust about ur knowledge and u will do the mistakes it will end in a yell.

    So if u want to raid and want to invest the time and effort and research it is an easy task to climb the Li letter.

    I even endet up in commanding my own raid teams for some time. And from time to time im teaching my guild members about the basics of Raids.

    The only thing u could compare Raids are Fractal CM modes. (Honestly i find cm fractals harder. They dont accept as much failures as in Raids.)

  • Blocki.4931Blocki.4931 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

    @Blocki.4931 said:
    The answer is: No. There is no problem, but a whole lot of people not willing to put in the required work + people being fed up with that attitude.

    See: The dozen other threads on this topic.

    They leave training to the training guilds and prefer to simply do quick and easy clears without having to worry about carrying other people. This rift you're seeing is nothing more than people who despise raids being very loud and people who despise casuals being very loud, endless yelling at each other.

    I disagree, there is a rift growing and as raiders drop off in raiding guilds because of time, lack of interest other games they wont be replaced with anyone.

    You're very anti-raid, that you're seeing a rift there doesn't surprise me. Interest is dropping because content doesn't release at a fast enough pace for them to care. Then they come back once the new raid is out, do it for a couple months and stop playing it again. Does that surprise anybody? It shouldn't.

    Logging out forever.

  • Einsof.1457Einsof.1457 Member ✭✭✭

    Raid discords work magnificently.

  • TexZero.7910TexZero.7910 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @FrizzFreston.5290 said:

    @ArchonWing.9480 said:
    If they didn't have raids, you'd have elitists in dungeons or fractals or whatnot. The good thing about raids is they're confined there now.

    I seriously dont think theyre confined anywhere. Its really just the content that both needs large amount of repitition for some of the interesting rewards and require some rather mild coordination.

    Since most people dont have that much time putting requirements is just one way to filter ppl so their success chance is higher and take less time. They dont want to bother explaining the whole thing everytime and rather just play.

    This is partially correct.

    There is however the other side that most people don't get. Training people is mentally taxing. Sure sometimes you get the people who research, care and geniunely want to improve. However those are far from the norm. From my time training people and not in one of the bigger Raid training groups is a lot of push back, crying and people adamant that they know better and outright refusing any help, critique or otherwise.

  • Zaklex.6308Zaklex.6308 Member ✭✭✭✭

    If by huge segment of the GW2 population you mean the ~1% or so that visit the forums, then perhaps you're correct...otherwise nothing happening here.

    Yes...no...maybe...what do you want, can't you see I'm busy saving the world...AGAIN!

  • Omnicron.2467Omnicron.2467 Member ✭✭✭

    Want a guild invite? We run W4 and W1 on Mondays and open to teaching new people

  • Shikaru.7618Shikaru.7618 Member ✭✭✭

    @TexZero.7910 said:

    @FrizzFreston.5290 said:

    @ArchonWing.9480 said:
    If they didn't have raids, you'd have elitists in dungeons or fractals or whatnot. The good thing about raids is they're confined there now.

    I seriously dont think theyre confined anywhere. Its really just the content that both needs large amount of repitition for some of the interesting rewards and require some rather mild coordination.

    Since most people dont have that much time putting requirements is just one way to filter ppl so their success chance is higher and take less time. They dont want to bother explaining the whole thing everytime and rather just play.

    This is partially correct.

    There is however the other side that most people don't get. Training people is mentally taxing. Sure sometimes you get the people who research, care and geniunely want to improve. However those are far from the norm. From my time training people and not in one of the bigger Raid training groups is a lot of push back, crying and people adamant that they know better and outright refusing any help, critique or otherwise.

    I had a unique experience where a group I was attempting to train on vg said that having green circles and blue circles was too confusing and they couldn't remember which circle did what so they started verbally abusing anet for "making 2 different colored circles". This was after repeated explanations and 10+ pulls. Some folks are simply not capable and that frustration manifests in crying and anger.

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shikaru.7618 said:

    @TexZero.7910 said:

    @FrizzFreston.5290 said:

    @ArchonWing.9480 said:
    If they didn't have raids, you'd have elitists in dungeons or fractals or whatnot. The good thing about raids is they're confined there now.

    I seriously dont think theyre confined anywhere. Its really just the content that both needs large amount of repitition for some of the interesting rewards and require some rather mild coordination.

    Since most people dont have that much time putting requirements is just one way to filter ppl so their success chance is higher and take less time. They dont want to bother explaining the whole thing everytime and rather just play.

    This is partially correct.

    There is however the other side that most people don't get. Training people is mentally taxing. Sure sometimes you get the people who research, care and geniunely want to improve. However those are far from the norm. From my time training people and not in one of the bigger Raid training groups is a lot of push back, crying and people adamant that they know better and outright refusing any help, critique or otherwise.

    I had a unique experience where a group I was attempting to train on vg said that having green circles and blue circles was too confusing and they couldn't remember which circle did what so they started verbally abusing anet for "making 2 different colored circles". This was after repeated explanations and 10+ pulls. Some folks are simply not capable and that frustration manifests in crying and anger.

    Then you simplify it
    big circle=stand in it
    small circle=dont stand in it.

  • FrizzFreston.5290FrizzFreston.5290 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @TexZero.7910 said:

    @FrizzFreston.5290 said:

    @ArchonWing.9480 said:
    If they didn't have raids, you'd have elitists in dungeons or fractals or whatnot. The good thing about raids is they're confined there now.

    I seriously dont think theyre confined anywhere. Its really just the content that both needs large amount of repitition for some of the interesting rewards and require some rather mild coordination.

    Since most people dont have that much time putting requirements is just one way to filter ppl so their success chance is higher and take less time. They dont want to bother explaining the whole thing everytime and rather just play.

    This is partially correct.

    There is however the other side that most people don't get. Training people is mentally taxing. Sure sometimes you get the people who research, care and geniunely want to improve. However those are far from the norm. From my time training people and not in one of the bigger Raid training groups is a lot of push back, crying and people adamant that they know better and outright refusing any help, critique or otherwise.

    Training people successfully depends as much on the trainer as it does on the trainee. Some people are bad trainees, dont listen and don't follow instructions and are unwilling to change. And some trainers are bad trainers who just dictate and dont appreciate ANY feedback and dont listen to who they are training, or even worse dont actually know themselves.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 22, 2018

    @Blocki.4931 said:
    You're very anti-raid, that you're seeing a rift there doesn't surprise me. Interest is dropping because content doesn't release at a fast enough pace for them to care. Then they come back once the new raid is out, do it for a couple months and stop playing it again. Does that surprise anybody? It shouldn't.

    Not all of them are coming back, though, and the new raiders do not make up the difference.
    See the gw2efficiency and completion rates - they are going down from raid to raid now. w6 has significantly lower completion rates than w5. Yes, they will probably go up a little with time, because this is a most recent raid, but still, w5 is the hardest raid so far, and w6 is much, much easier.
    And yet even the very easy first boss of w6 has only a 7.5% completion rate (compared to dhuum's 6.5% and soulles horror's 9%).

    Yes, the interest is dropping.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • sigur.9453sigur.9453 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 22, 2018

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Blocki.4931 said:
    You're very anti-raid, that you're seeing a rift there doesn't surprise me. Interest is dropping because content doesn't release at a fast enough pace for them to care. Then they come back once the new raid is out, do it for a couple months and stop playing it again. Does that surprise anybody? It shouldn't.

    Not all of them are coming back, though, and the new raiders do not make up the difference.
    See the gw2efficiency and completion rates - they are going down from raid to raid now. w6 has significantly lower completion rates than w5. Yes, they will probably go up a little with time, because this is a most recent raid, but still, w5 is the hardest raid so far, and w6 is much, much easier.
    And yet even the very easy first boss of w6 has only a 7.5% completion rate (compared to dhuum's 6.5% and soulles horror's 9%).

    Yes, the interest is dropping.

    the same thing can be also said for the living story episodes (they lose even more players in % and actuall numbers). so generally speaking its only natural in a life circle of a game to lose players anyway. sure on its peak a game will get more/same player numbers that leave, but that peak is long gone and only expansions are capable of bringing in more players then that have left over time. so while you present interesting numbers, i do not see how its a counterpoint to blocki´s comment.

  • @Astralporing.1957 said:
    Not all of them are coming back, though, and the new raiders do not make up the difference.
    See the gw2efficiency and completion rates - they are going down from raid to raid now. w6 has significantly lower completion rates than w5. Yes, they will probably go up a little with time, because this is a most recent raid, but still, w5 is the hardest raid so far, and w6 is much, much easier.
    And yet even the very easy first boss of w6 has only a 7.5% completion rate (compared to dhuum's 6.5% and soulles horror's 9%).

    Yes, the interest is dropping.

    The interest is dropping in general though.
    Compare these 7.5% with the living world achievements. They are even lower and also dropping.
    Its pretty normal that people are not coming back and its no surprise that fewer people will complete content. Doesn't matter if raids, fractals or living story.

  • @Blocki.4931 said:

    You're very anti-raid, that you're seeing a rift there doesn't surprise me. Interest is dropping because content doesn't release at a fast enough pace for them to care. Then they come back once the new raid is out, do it for a couple months and stop playing it again. Does that surprise anybody? It shouldn't.

    You don't have to be anti-raid to see the rift. If you don't see it that means only one of the following:
    1. You play another game and you only read the GW2 Forum - OR
    2. You see it very well but you don't admit this. Why? I have no idea. Because the point 3 is too drastic to consider it real:
    3. Someone cannot see the rift because his/hers social skills are very low (this can affect a player even in the RL) OR the logic of that person is so twisted that even if 1+1 = 2 then 2+2 IS NOT EQUAL 4.

    The rift has been created even before the first raid wing reached the game. By the developers statement the the raids are only for .... This only creates a segregation. Segregation = separation. Separation = rift. And after this statement, the entire development team acted to put it into practice. Repeating that this is a good thing.
    Can you see now the rift? Do you consider that the players were able to resist such a maneuver and to remain as a monolith despite of the intentional actions from ANet to separate the players in "the most dedicated / elite / ...etc" and "second hand players"?

    That the efforts of ANet were channeled into a wrong direction is proved by the truth you states: "Interest is dropping because content doesn't release at a fast enough pace for them to care. Then they come back once the new raid is out, do it for a couple months and stop playing it again". Well, this is the attitude of the elite players.
    If you remember, before HoT it was a looooong period with ZERO content released. With the same attitude from the "second hand" players the game should be dead by now. But they continued the play. Another difference in the approach - (another fact enlarging the rift? The attitude to the game?).

    And to answer your question: "Does that surprise anybody?" - YES this is a surprise. Because ANet is wasting efforts only to cater for the few elites who only play for a limited period and leave the game until the next content release instead of focusing to keep the players who continues to play and to support the game despite some ... issues during the time. Another fact making the rift larger.

  • Thats why content needs to nerfed to be possible to complete by the lowest possible build in dps and support with same time as meta does. People will approve of this for challenge and difficulty is not apealing to majority of players. Make content possible for all to complete the way they want too

  • yann.1946yann.1946 Member ✭✭✭

    @Cristalyan.5728 said:

    @Blocki.4931 said:

    You're very anti-raid, that you're seeing a rift there doesn't surprise me. Interest is dropping because content doesn't release at a fast enough pace for them to care. Then they come back once the new raid is out, do it for a couple months and stop playing it again. Does that surprise anybody? It shouldn't.

    You don't have to be anti-raid to see the rift. If you don't see it that means only one of the following:
    1. You play another game and you only read the GW2 Forum - OR
    2. You see it very well but you don't admit this. Why? I have no idea. Because the point 3 is too drastic to consider it real:
    3. Someone cannot see the rift because his/hers social skills are very low (this can affect a player even in the RL) OR the logic of that person is so twisted that even if 1+1 = 2 then 2+2 IS NOT EQUAL 4.

    4th option their is no rift and some people see one where their is none.

    5th option they don't consider this rift a problem.

    The rift has been created even before the first raid wing reached the game. By the developers statement the the raids are only for .... This only creates a segregation. Segregation = separation. Separation = rift. And after this statement, the entire development team acted to put it into practice. Repeating that this is a good thing.
    Can you see now the rift? Do you consider that the players were able to resist such a maneuver and to remain as a monolith despite of the intentional actions from ANet to separate the players in "the most dedicated / elite / ...etc" and "second hand players"?

    This rift you speak of exist also between different game modes, even different ls maps just in different variations and sizes.

    That the efforts of ANet were channeled into a wrong direction is proved by the truth you states: "Interest is dropping because content doesn't release at a fast enough pace for them to care. Then they come back once the new raid is out, do it for a couple months and stop playing it again". Well, this is the attitude of the elite players.
    If you remember, before HoT it was a looooong period with ZERO content released. With the same attitude from the "second hand" players the game should be dead by now. But they continued the play. Another difference in the approach - (another fact enlarging the rift? The attitude to the game?).

    The general population is dropping not only the elite as you call them. This is a natural in the lifespan of a game.

    And to answer your question: "Does that surprise anybody?" - YES this is a surprise. Because ANet is wasting efforts only to cater for the few elites who only play for a limited period and leave the game until the next content release instead of focusing to keep the players who continues to play and to support the game despite some ... issues during the time. Another fact making the rift larger.

    Have you considered that not all raiders leave after a month. And that the retention percentage of people who raid might be higher then that of those who don't?

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 22, 2018

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    See the gw2efficiency and completion rates - they are going down from raid to raid now. w6 has significantly lower completion rates than w5.

    Notice how episode completion rates are also going down from episode to episode, same with episode participation rates. Daybreak was started by 54% (44% finished it) while A Star to Guide Us is down to 34% (26% completed it). You can't see raid completion rates in a vacuum and say that one wing has lower rates than the other, when the rest of the game's rates are also going down.

    Edit:
    To answer the "significantly lower" part:
    Hall of Chains: First boss: 9.329% - Last Boss: 6.498% - Population that finished Daybreak: 44%
    Mythwright Gambit: First boss: 6.972% - Last Boss: 3.992% - Population that finished A Star to Guide Us: 26%

    14.7% of those that finished Daybreak killed Dhuum
    15.3% of those that finished A Star to Guide Us killed Quadim

    In the end, Wing 6 is doing better than Wing 5, it's still new and the rates will likely increase, and that's to be expected because it's also easier.

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    With this downward trend, are we going to eventually see certain pieces of content, stop being developed?

  • wiazabi.2549wiazabi.2549 Member ✭✭
    edited November 22, 2018

    Play games for the challenge and the story is a bonus for me, gw 2 open world feel like 0 effort free rewards mostly as it requires minimum effort and squad leaders useally tell what to do which is simple stuff.

    Raiding + dungeons in wildstar is one of the most amazing experiences i have ever tried and it was extremely well made and fun but going to gw 2 raiding and in general the many issues the game has it is not just about learning a fight but that veteran players have muscle memory about what to do in encounters, but new players have to learn a fight ontop of the crazy amount of visual clutter that is a huge plaque in this game, it is also a huge turnoff as you can barely see what is going on in fights.

    I dont want em to make the raids directly easier but the game is in need of many QOL improvements, color options so we can change how telegraph work and their color, hide friendly telegraph / skills, it baffles me that people like over the top visual effects that actually prevent you seeing what is going on.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @wiazabi.2549 said:
    I dont want em to make the raids directly easier but the game is in need of many QOL improvements, color options so we can change how telegraph work and their color, hide friendly telegraph / skills, it baffles me that people like over the top visual effects that actually prevent you seeing what is going on.

    I don't think people like that at all! There are tons of threads that appear often asking for a reduction in the visual clutter, but still no response from the devs.

  • sigur.9453sigur.9453 Member ✭✭✭

    @Tyson.5160 said:
    With this downward trend, are we going to eventually see certain pieces of content, stop being developed?

    i don´t think so, at least not on the near future, financially it still seams to work. i guess it will rather be a full stop of developing anything at some point in time, with longer gaps between releases beforehand. (im not to optimistic with an exp3)
    the goal is and will be to make the same money with less players. "creativity" in the gemshop is on a new high since pof.

  • flog.3485flog.3485 Member ✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    See the gw2efficiency and completion rates - they are going down from raid to raid now. w6 has significantly lower completion rates than w5.

    Notice how episode completion rates are also going down from episode to episode, same with episode participation rates. Daybreak was started by 54% (44% finished it) while A Star to Guide Us is down to 34% (26% completed it). You can't see raid completion rates in a vacuum and say that one wing has lower rates than the other, when the rest of the game's rates are also going down.

    Edit:
    To answer the "significantly lower" part:
    Hall of Chains: First boss: 9.329% - Last Boss: 6.498% - Population that finished Daybreak: 44%
    Mythwright Gambit: First boss: 6.972% - Last Boss: 3.992% - Population that finished A Star to Guide Us: 26%

    14.7% of those that finished Daybreak killed Dhuum
    15.3% of those that finished A Star to Guide Us killed Quadim

    In the end, Wing 6 is doing better than Wing 5, it's still new and the rates will likely increase, and that's to be expected because it's also easier.

    We need to also take into account the fact W6 And W5 players have also no clue what the legendary ring looks like.

    It is hard to make content really relevant when on an approximate release period of 10 months, the whole Gw2 player base has had triple the opportunity to get other rewards and yet no mean to acquire the legendary ring.

    As for the low participation of A star To Guide Us, that may be due to the weaknesses of Kourna.

  • Walhalla.5473Walhalla.5473 Member ✭✭✭

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Shikaru.7618 said:

    @TexZero.7910 said:

    @FrizzFreston.5290 said:

    @ArchonWing.9480 said:
    If they didn't have raids, you'd have elitists in dungeons or fractals or whatnot. The good thing about raids is they're confined there now.

    I seriously dont think theyre confined anywhere. Its really just the content that both needs large amount of repitition for some of the interesting rewards and require some rather mild coordination.

    Since most people dont have that much time putting requirements is just one way to filter ppl so their success chance is higher and take less time. They dont want to bother explaining the whole thing everytime and rather just play.

    This is partially correct.

    There is however the other side that most people don't get. Training people is mentally taxing. Sure sometimes you get the people who research, care and geniunely want to improve. However those are far from the norm. From my time training people and not in one of the bigger Raid training groups is a lot of push back, crying and people adamant that they know better and outright refusing any help, critique or otherwise.

    I had a unique experience where a group I was attempting to train on vg said that having green circles and blue circles was too confusing and they couldn't remember which circle did what so they started verbally abusing anet for "making 2 different colored circles". This was after repeated explanations and 10+ pulls. Some folks are simply not capable and that frustration manifests in crying and anger.

    Then you simplify it
    big circle=stand in it
    small circle=dont stand in it.

    Instructions unclear - hugged the seekers.

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