Firebrand/scourge wars 2 - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Firebrand/scourge wars 2

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Comments

  • @Jski.6180 said:

    @DanAlcedo.3281 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @DanAlcedo.3281 said:
    7/9 classes are meta in zerg figts.

    If the enemy only has Firebrands and scourges then he has no bubbles, no insane scrapper heals, no meteorshowers, no mesmer cc/veil/portal, no boons from rev.

    I take that enemy server any day.

    Scorge covers the boon strip and healing as well as aoe dmg and burst single targets and cc. FB covers the strong boons as well as healing and cc.

    Aaaaaaand your point is?

    So you are saying that a full zerg with only necros and guardians is better then one with all of the above?

    Yes. And the zerg with less of the 2 classes are worst off. Its even worst with the rune/ sigil update pushing the meta more into the bunker meta where necros and guardians are both the bunker AND the counter to that bunker.

    Not entirely true. About 1 month ago, 8 of us repeatedly took down a group of 60 that was primarily scourges and firebrands (with the help of a banner). Our group comp was 1 warrior, 2 revs, 1 firebrand (I think), a druid, reaper, scourge, and soulbeast. Like I've said before, soulbeasts tear scourges apart; and also as I found out during these encounters, herald revs also tear scourges apart (and firebrands to an extent if they are dumb enough to stay grouped up). The way a back line rev should be played basically eliminates how the scourge needs to be played to be effective. It came to a point where the scourges stopped pushing as they were in a constant state of trying to reaz which meant they were constantly getting bombed while trying to rez each other. Then as the downed person was revived, the rezzer's went down. Then when they tried to revive, more rezzer's went down.

    It was quite funny to watch because their mindset was exactly what the OP is pointing out, commanders (and this commander is one of the more well known commanders) are under the belief that the more scourges and firebrands you have, the more likely you were going to win. To employ that strategy, you have to run forward in a tight little melee train and bomb as you go. Well it didn't exactly work out that way for the way they hoped. Between the 2 revs (1 carrying a banner), the soulbeast, and warrior dropping the bubble as they ran forward, their scourges repeatedly dropped. So the rezzing started, and the bombs on the rezzer's started.. so they ran. Then the banner downed a bunch more as they ran.

    They could have easily alleviated this by having a combo of 5 of their scourges/firebrands swap to soulbeasts, and in turn the soulbeasts focus down the 2 revs (especially the 1 carrying the banner). But why have soulbeasts in your comp? Ewww yuck they aren't meta. Hell even an annoying deadeye or mirage would have done the trick.

    I will agree though, Anet made the combination of firebrand and scourge very desirable to play in groups, a little too desirable compared to other classes.

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    So if your a commander run with out FB and scorges see how that works out for ya.

  • Acyk.9671Acyk.9671 Member ✭✭
    edited November 23, 2018

    @Jski.6180 said:

    So if your a commander run with out FB and scorges see how that works out for ya.

    What's your point? Delete guard and necro?

  • Turkeyspit.3965Turkeyspit.3965 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 23, 2018

    @Kaiser.9873 said:

    @Nimon.7840 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @DanAlcedo.3281 said:
    7/9 classes are meta in zerg figts.

    If the enemy only has Firebrands and scourges then he has no bubbles, no insane scrapper heals, no meteorshowers, no mesmer cc/veil/portal, no boons from rev.

    I take that enemy server any day.

    Scorge covers the boon strip and healing as well as aoe dmg and burst single targets and cc. FB covers the strong boons as well as healing and cc.

    But you loose all the damage from revs.

    People keep complaining about scourges in wvw. Even though scourge isn't the damage dealer in zergs right now.
    Even if you play full grieving, every rev should outdamage you.

    The problem is. That most people see their buff/debuff bar. See 5 conditions from scourge: vulnerability, 1stack bleed, 1 stack torment, 1 stack burn, and cripple
    But they don't notice the revs hitting them for 10k

    The people that bother to look at the combat bar realize this is true. The devs did Scourge no favors showing the big red circles all over the place. What neither Scourge nor FB can cover is the 1200 range power bomb. If/when I die in a fight I always look at combat bar afterwards. It's NOT the Scourge hitting for 5K plus. Phase Smash 9K+, Meteor 4K+, CoR 5K+, I got hit by a Fireball for 7K the other day. Scourge provides hazing at best at 1200 (Staff is just utilities really), axe ramps the damage up, but at 900. Shades and wells @900. You're at half, or dead by the time you close the distance with a heavy rev comp.

    Exactly. Scourge is capable of dishing out large AoE bombs of spike damage, but their true value is in boon strip and corrupt, (and barrier obv). Often it's up to the backline crew (Revs and Eles mostly) to either burst the weakened enemy player into downed, or finish off the downs in the first place. I've seen Scourge eat 18k COS into downed because of (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Swift_Termination) and they were below that threshold, so they probably had 14-16k health left? A sand shade wouldn't take them down at that point, but a hammer to the face sure will. I see it often when the enemy frontline meets my squad's shades, but before they can dodge back they are eating a Rev hammer or a meteor.

    There is no question that Scourge is still a major factor in how the meta performs, as they are literally spamming AoE bombs, but unless a player is hit by several scourges at once, it's likely another DPS'er who is taking them down.

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 23, 2018

    @Acyk.9671 said:
    @Jski.6180 said:

    So if your a commander run with out FB and scorges see how that works out for ya.

    What's your point? Delete guard and necro?

    Delete FB and scorge. Core guard and core necro are very balanced its the added on of these 2 elites that have effectually made them dubble version of them self.

    Also keep the devs that made these 2 elite spec as far from class balancing as humanly can.

  • @Jski.6180 said:

    @Acyk.9671 said:
    @Jski.6180 said:

    So if your a commander run with out FB and scorges see how that works out for ya.

    What's your point? Delete guard and necro?

    Delete FB and scorge. Core guard and core necro are very balanced its the added on of these 2 elites that have effectually made them dubble version of them self.

    Sure lets go back to 20 guards and 15 necro in squad. You don't realize numbers because there were no squad then but meta was 4 classes, now it's 7. When it comes to balance i pick 7 everyday.

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Acyk.9671 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Acyk.9671 said:
    @Jski.6180 said:

    So if your a commander run with out FB and scorges see how that works out for ya.

    What's your point? Delete guard and necro?

    Delete FB and scorge. Core guard and core necro are very balanced its the added on of these 2 elites that have effectually made them dubble version of them self.

    Sure lets go back to 20 guards and 15 necro in squad. You don't realize numbers because there were no squad then but meta was 4 classes, now it's 7. When it comes to balance i pick 7 everyday.

    Lol that no where near how it was yes you did have a lot of guards but you did not have nearly as many necro you had mez for boon strip not support you had ele for real hard and soft cc you had rev for support not just a wepon you had thfs that could pick as well as rangers. It was just over all a better game.

    All devs should out right hate the FB and scorge devs they destroyed most of the balancing in the game.

  • Acyk.9671Acyk.9671 Member ✭✭
    edited November 23, 2018

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Acyk.9671 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Acyk.9671 said:
    @Jski.6180 said:

    So if your a commander run with out FB and scorges see how that works out for ya.

    What's your point? Delete guard and necro?

    Delete FB and scorge. Core guard and core necro are very balanced its the added on of these 2 elites that have effectually made them dubble version of them self.

    Sure lets go back to 20 guards and 15 necro in squad. You don't realize numbers because there were no squad then but meta was 4 classes, now it's 7. When it comes to balance i pick 7 everyday.

    Lol that no where near how it was yes you did have a lot of guards but you did not have nearly as many necro you had mez for boon strip not support you had ele for real hard and soft cc you had rev for support not just a wepon you had thfs that could pick as well as rangers. It was just over all a better game.

    All devs should out right hate the FB and scorge devs they destroyed most of the balancing in the game.

    In large scale you had 2 guard 1 war 1 necro in every groups. Then you took either ele, mesmer or another necro for your fifth spot. Mesmer was only for veil so 2/3 were more than enough and not always in melee group and 5 Ele were enough for blasting water + CC. So yeah 50 men comps were around 20 guards + 15 necros + 10 war + 5 ele (+ 2 mesmers). Thief and Ranger were out of squad or for gvg.

    Now optimal 50 men comp:
    10 FB, 10 Rev, 5 spellbreaker, 5 chronos, 2/3 scrapper, 3 to 5 weavers, 15 scourge. If some classes are lacking you might take more scourges or have some weavers/Rev out of squad but in no way you play only FB+ Scourge.

    EDIT: I was talking about Vanilla meta in previous comment since you named core guard + core necro and then you said Rev (which didn't exist).

    HoT meta was:
    10 rev
    10 reaper
    (5 berserker )
    3 support in every group (either 1 guard + 1 chrono + 1 tempest OR 2 guard + tempest) with 15/20 guards + 8/10 tempest + 3/5 chronos (+ 2 druids)
    I feel like i keep repeating the same things over and over in different posts.

    EDIT 2: sometimes only 2 support + 1 rev + 2 necro. It depended on comm and playstyle

  • shiri.4257shiri.4257 Member ✭✭✭

    @Jski.6180 said:
    So if your a commander run with out FB and scorges see how that works out for ya.

    Perhaps you should work on being a better commander so more FB and scourges join your squad.

    Spectre [VII] - Wood League Champion. Making "fight guilds" stack on higher tiers since 2013.
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  • Rampage.7145Rampage.7145 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 30, 2018

    @myboybuzzy.5809 said:
    Who else is over this meta of red circles of death.

    Gotta love how bads like this guy thinks Scourges and FBs are they key to win fights in WvW lol when u literally need every class but ranger to get a good powerfull composition, if you only have scourges and FBs btw your whole 65+ man blob would just get smoked by the other server running all heralds or all weavers btw. So a full blob of only the 2 "OP" Classes will get obilerated by a blob made of 1 single class. The meta currently btw has more choices and and class variety than ever before only the mediocre players who pug around as a ranger and have never been on a top tier guild would think otherwise.

    VR Driver
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  • @Jski.6180 said:
    In a way balancing of elite spec and what they added in need major "locks" base off of the core classes. So a FB should not add as much stab / support because core gurd gets a lot of build in support / stab. Also scorge should not get as much boon corruption and aoe as core necro gets a lot of boon corruption and aoe. This IS an issues of power leap (i would not call this creep because it was way more of a power boots then a small jump "creep") destroying a game type for many classes and nothing more. Gurds and necro where very viable wvw classes but where not the end all be all but FB and scorge ARE end all be all wvw classes.

    log off your PC right now before i call your mom

  • This thread is so symptomatic of WvW these days.
    People confuse difficulty with power.
    They don't understand that is what meta is.
    Meta is builds that are:

    • Easy to learn
    • Does well even if played poorly
    • Allow anonymity in your squad
    • Mistakes being less punitive

    It is what you steer new players and bad players towards.
    Meta is more in the public eye now because there is a higher degree of new and bad players.

    That is why you tell players to go FB over Mesmer, because you expect them not to handle veil, portal and the rotation spam. It is why you favour bread and butter damage over the glassy classes and it is why you rarely see classes that require self-sufficiency or leadership to fullfill their role. If someone asks for how to play those roles they are simply not ready to play them.

    People whine about this because they don't understand it. They are not experienced enough or good enough.

  • Let's drop one more truthbomb:

    Bad players ask to nerf classes based on popularity.
    Good players ask to nerf mechanics based on power.
    This is because they see and understand the mechanics and their relative power in balance. The bad players do not see or understand these things.

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @subversiontwo.7501 said:
    Let's drop one more truthbomb:

    Bad players ask to nerf classes based on popularity.
    Good players ask to nerf mechanics based on power.
    This is because they see and understand the mechanics and their relative power in balance. The bad players do not see or understand these things.

    Anet balance base off of class popularity you know. As well as mechanics popularity. Anet has a real fear of spreading out effects that players use the class for such as giving other classes support stab ending the use of FB comply.

    The mechanic problem is stab as a boon how hard it is to get out side of gurd classes and even how much stronger it is on a FB elite spec.

    Other mechanic problem is death shroud on necro classes and how the lack of the DS on scorge put its above a build in balancing that throws the class balancing as a mages class.

  • zinkz.7045zinkz.7045 Member ✭✭✭

    @subversiontwo.7501 said:
    Let's drop one more truthbomb:

    Bad players ask to nerf classes based on popularity.
    Good players ask to nerf mechanics based on power.
    This is because they see and understand the mechanics and their relative power in balance. The bad players do not see or understand these things.

    Irony...

  • zinkz.7045zinkz.7045 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 2, 2018

    delete....

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