Semi and Perma-Stealth are junk mechanics - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Semi and Perma-Stealth are junk mechanics

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  • NuhDah.9812NuhDah.9812 Member ✭✭✭

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

    @TwiceDead.1963 said:
    Yes, you are completely right. Complete Stealth is a garbage mechanic that's boring to fight with and against.

    However, Thief exists. One of Thiefs class-mechanics is based and balanced around Stealth in it's current iteration. If you remove stealth, you have to completely revise how stealth-attacks work for Thieves, and consequently rework/buff the hell out of them since you leave a huge vacuum in their defensive arsenal if you remove it.

    So yeah. Stealth sucks. Even some thieves decide to run S/D Core, which has limited stealth application, in exchange for a more visible but evasive playstyle.

    Stealth doesn't need to be removed, I know some people would like that, but it's not needed. What is needed are some BUILDS, need to be adjusted to stop it's abuse, it doesn't need to be a blanket change to stealth either, as that will hurt other classes and builds. While core would need some changes over all, it would not hurt builds that don't fully depend on stealth for cheese one hit builds and constant resetting.

    A good example of someone playing a build with minimal stealth use, while still having access to it, however stealth is still available to remove some pressure.

    Woh, the times when DrD was like that are long gone. In the meanwhile they nerfed the endurance generation a lot, nerfed staff an dp, nerfed PI, nerfed leaps, nerfed dash... so yeah, the next logical step is to kill stealth too...

  • Susy.7529Susy.7529 Member ✭✭✭

    @XenesisII.1540 said:
    Stealth mechanics in this game are one of the worse in pvp settings.
    It will always be terrible because they will never change it since they've built a class entirely around it, the same class they also have hitting single targets the hardest.
    They've put in more reveals, then stealth trap, then a remove reveal, and now added mark, since the beginning for the game to deal with it is enough proof that it was never developed properly for the pvp environment in the first place.

    Anet only puts bandaids over bandaids over bandaids on problems, they will never overhaul this mechanic, they will never balance this mechanic or the classes that overuses it, people will have to accept that.

    Sad but true.

  • Despond.2174Despond.2174 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 5, 2018

    I disagree. They did stealth really well in GW2. You have to work for it usually and there's a massive downside. Thieves are not prime teamfighters, they are horrible at contesting nodes against so many other builds, and even the most cheesy DE perma stealth build against a properly geared/good player is not going to get the dmg they need in their opener. You have to look @ the broader picture, and there are plenty of roaming OP builds that couldn't careless about stealthing or vs a sb/thief/mesmar

    Any stealth/thief/rogue class gets a lot of hate in MMOs because usually there's some skill ceiling to play it well - look @ odl school sub rogues or Ninja in BDO. They can dish out great damage when combo'd but are countered very easily if they even slip up once.

    It would be boring to just have everyone the same, stealth can be balanced. I think D/P thief in SPVP a few seasons ago is the perfect example of balancing a stealth class with enough drawbacks and rewards for excellent play. I mean I agree stuff like Ghost Thief was taking it too far, but they did address that. I think the current DE roam build is cheesy but it IS a gimmick build and has a low rate against any decent player.

    Sometimes you have to put your random experience aside and look at it more objectively. I mean I can just hop on my spellbreaker and just /lol at thieves everywhere I go. Stealth is fine as long as there is some downside with utility, up time on dmg, survival etc. Thieves are hated no matter what happens, even when D/P was perfectly balanced and it took skill people still complained. It would be a boring game if everyone was just a dmg dummy charging in.

  • What I have trouble understanding is, how reveal-skills can be evaded.
    For example detection pulse of sneak-gyro.

    Immersion: you're in stealth and some guy 20m away activates some echolocation device. What do you do to stay in stealth? Barrel Dodge-roll!
    Most AoE reveal skills don't look like you could evade them via a dodge roll and stay in stealth...
    Gamewise: AoE-Reveals are either short duration, on a long CD, highly conditional or only affecting a small area. And most have a pretty easy to tell animation. So, unless the thief missed you or tries to save dodges, it's easy for him to evade the reveal.
    Otherwise the reveal-skills are not really worth taking...

    For conter-play you can't really do more than setting traps and keeping your fingers above the keys you'll need next... or you throw a tantrum, pelt everything around you with AoE and dodge a few times in between for good measures. Must be entertaining for the thief at least.

    Though, against stealthed thiefs, engis "throw mine" is one of the most satisfying skills. Especially with gadgeteer you lay 2 mines below you that will knockback people when they come near. also unblockable and remove a boon. However, since the 12s CD is starting once they are laid out, you can immediatelly throw another two. They are pretty weak and not really useful against anything else, but in those cases it's funny. ^^

  • It was broken in the beginning, it is still broken, and will always be... live with it or change game... I dont like the stealth system but like the game, I just started playing Mesmer and Thief to learn how it works and now I know a regular player will never die playing these classes, just need to be a little smart, so I just ignore both and move away let then get bored,

  • Turk.5460Turk.5460 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @XenoSpyro.1780 said:

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:
    But I thought this kind of play was fun and enjoyable?
    The only reason I got the kill was by baiting him, let him get cocky, as the only way you get the kill is by them over investing, other wise it's just reset after reset.

    Even with a victory, that was the stupidest thing I've ever watched. To think it's worse with braindeadeye.

    How would you fix it? All power Thief iterations are among the squishiest of enemies. I feel that Stealth access should be reduced, but I can't think of a way to compensate Thieves for it, as compensation would absolutely be necessary. More hp perhaps? Maybe adding stability and blocks to certain abilities? More evades?

    Fort Aspenwood
    Jekkies

  • As a primary wvw player, with mesmer (non stealther btw) - I can agree overall the stealth mechanic on thief can be a real pain but ultimately, I like the wvw game mode and won't let the frustration stop me from playing it though there were days post POF when I considered it. I'm not going to delve into what anet should or should not do since we know what that conversation entails. Here are some lessons learned that have helped me mitigate the perma stealthers and in fact, have made wvw more fun at times because it infuriates them to the point of getting insane trolly pms (my response, "sry i didnt just lie there and let you spike me down!") and them even camping spawn to look for rematches or ask for 1v1's:

    1. Never fight Deadeyes in the open. Kite your way to trees, buildings, hills, walls etc while defending only - this allows you to force them into certain lines of sight that you can better predict for your own counters. (the tree branches can also block their camera line of sight for poor UI quality of life too) It's better than giving them a 360 degree field to choose to zero in on you. The central ruins and orchards are great for this if you are near.

    2. If you can, fight them in camps or near keep doorways, preferably yours with ally vet guards. The vets can get in that one hit that gives you the advantage. I've seen it many times where a DE over invests in the zeal for the kill and gets walloped or immobilized by a vet giving me that a crucial 1-2 seconds to burst them down.

    3. Pack stealth disruptors for back stabbers and try to force them into an attack lane that makes them hit you from your front or side. Put the disruptor behind you with access only from the front or side and stand a little in front of it with your back turned but with camera looking behind. Yes, they'll have seen you put it there but it changes the whole fight as they lose their high crit burst from behind and they have to reconsider their tactics. I've had many just waypoint when they see I've set them up to fail.

    4. If they are really troublesome and won't give up pursuit, if you can, go underwater. 9/10 times from my experience, they won't follow.

    Happy hunting!

  • Fat Disgrace.4275Fat Disgrace.4275 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @MesmerizedNYC.2479 said:
    As a primary wvw player, with mesmer (non stealther btw) - I can agree overall the stealth mechanic on thief can be a real pain but ultimately, I like the wvw game mode and won't let the frustration stop me from playing it though there were days post POF when I considered it. I'm not going to delve into what anet should or should not do since we know what that conversation entails. Here are some lessons learned that have helped me mitigate the perma stealthers and in fact, have made wvw more fun at times because it infuriates them to the point of getting insane trolly pms (my response, "sry i didnt just lie there and let you spike me down!") and them even camping spawn to look for rematches or ask for 1v1's:

    1. Never fight Deadeyes in the open. Kite your way to trees, buildings, hills, walls etc while defending only - this allows you to force them into certain lines of sight that you can better predict for your own counters. (the tree branches can also block their camera line of sight for poor UI quality of life too) It's better than giving them a 360 degree field to choose to zero in on you. The central ruins and orchards are great for this if you are near.

    2. If you can, fight them in camps or near keep doorways, preferably yours with ally vet guards. The vets can get in that one hit that gives you the advantage. I've seen it many times where a DE over invests in the zeal for the kill and gets walloped or immobilized by a vet giving me that a crucial 1-2 seconds to burst them down.

    3. Pack stealth disruptors for back stabbers and try to force them into an attack lane that makes them hit you from your front or side. Put the disruptor behind you with access only from the front or side and stand a little in front of it with your back turned but with camera looking behind. Yes, they'll have seen you put it there but it changes the whole fight as they lose their high crit burst from behind and they have to reconsider their tactics. I've had many just waypoint when they see I've set them up to fail.

    4. If they are really troublesome and won't give up pursuit, if you can, go underwater. 9/10 times from my experience, they won't follow.

    Happy hunting!

    Under water thief does actually hurt now with the changes to scyhe.

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 6, 2018

    " Time discovers truth "

    Here is a thief player video guild on thief traits, mechanic. He states that every skill based around stealth as being "Ridiculous"
    (sure the video shouldn't being taken too seriously but the truth stands, Thief is a bad design fail that no other competitive game company would dare implement nor tolerate in their game
    (Even former Anet would dare not dream in implementing it in Guild Wars 1. Such shame really as a game "everything you like about Guild Wars you will like in Guild Wars 2"

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guild_Wars

    Godspeed Guild Wars; the memories, putting the players best interests in mind first, implementing a healthy competitive environment for each and all players alike, lastly having a clear vision with regular updates to keep a watchful eyes on Op builds, bugs and exploits........you will never be replaced.

  • TwiceDead.1963TwiceDead.1963 Member ✭✭✭

    @NuhDah.9812 said:
    Woh, the times when DrD was like that are long gone. In the meanwhile they nerfed the endurance generation a lot, nerfed staff an dp, nerfed PI, nerfed leaps, nerfed dash... so yeah, the next logical step is to kill stealth too...

    Honestly if they did, I wouldn't mind, but they would have to rework a lot of thief. There's another problem with removing stealth though and that's class identity.
    If you remove stealth and buff thief in other ways to compensate such as Health and stability access, you'll just end up with a more agile Warrior, at which point it's become more of a subclass.

  • Turk.5460Turk.5460 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Aza.2105 said:

    @zerorogue.9410 said:
    The stealth mechanic at it's base is not that bad. The idea of having a class that can go invisible has been in rpgs for years, if not since the very beginning.

    Yes but a it has no place in a competitive setting. At least not in this form. When you look at a successful competitive game like overwatch. Sombra has stealth but its balanced by the fact that she isn't very strong. Her tool kit revolves around flanking and deception. She can not come out of stealth and one shot you. Like wise the Spy from TF2 has a similar playstyle. That it revolves around flanking and deception, except he could one shot you with his knife. But to do that you had to meet requirements (i.e stand behind the target and melee range) and even then it was risky because you are unstealthed after wards and the will likely be killed.

    Now look at GW2 stealth. Both classes have high access to evade, extremely high damage from range, can weave in and out of stealth, has the ability to disengage at will, is relatively tanky due to lots of evade frames.

    Stealth is unbalanced in GW2 because of the tool kit that surrounds it. Its like giving bastion mobility and the ability to stealth. It just doesn't make sense. At this point in time I'd say the damage is done. I do not think Anet will ever address the problem. Its been over 6 years and they still have not.

    GW2 is not a FPS. You cannot compare a FPS with "Move, Shoot, Alternate Shoot, Alternate Alternate Shoot" with a MMO that has traits, gear stats, at least 11 different abilities the player can activate, and vastly more complex combat mechanics.

    If you want to make a comparison that even remotely holds water, try making a comparison from WoW or another MMO.

    Fort Aspenwood
    Jekkies

  • Solori.6025Solori.6025 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ProverbsofHell.2307 said:
    I remember in City of Heroes, there was a thief class called Stalker which could one-shot you.

    But there were a few ways it was manageable... first, the Stalker would have access to ONE skill it could use from stealth to instakill - Assassin's Strike. You would need to get into melee range, and then begin the length cast time (say 2 and half seconds). As soon as you cast the skill, the Stalker would be revealed, giving you a brief window to use control effects to stop it. If you moved away, and the Stalker finished the cast, you would still take the damage. But in Guild Wars, you could dodge or use a CD, improving that issue which was in CoH.

    Oooff unless you played CoH/V after the mass pvp exodus of i13
    That was not how energy stalkers worked in competitive pvp environments.

    Superjump and superspeed were the go to movement options of choice.
    A stalker would superspeed past you, start the animation of assassins strike and as long as the animation started ( and I believe it had to last either 1/4 of a second or 3/4 of a second) you would get hit with the Assassins strike. Meaning, you could be jumping in the air, and land for not even a second and as soon as you were a good 20-30 ft away you either died or got all your health taken away. God help you if you took any damage before then because then they could just run past you and use Total Focus ( the skill that had you use both hands in the air and slam down, was great made you look like the hulk beefin on ninjas) and kill you anyway.
    Then they had placate- a get out of free card that would let them redo this. I'll try and find a vid of it, CoH was love glad to see another player from their :D

    Tingle my stingleberry

  • @Solori.6025 said:

    @ProverbsofHell.2307 said:
    I remember in City of Heroes, there was a thief class called Stalker which could one-shot you.

    But there were a few ways it was manageable... first, the Stalker would have access to ONE skill it could use from stealth to instakill - Assassin's Strike. You would need to get into melee range, and then begin the length cast time (say 2 and half seconds). As soon as you cast the skill, the Stalker would be revealed, giving you a brief window to use control effects to stop it. If you moved away, and the Stalker finished the cast, you would still take the damage. But in Guild Wars, you could dodge or use a CD, improving that issue which was in CoH.

    Oooff unless you played CoH/V after the mass pvp exodus of i13
    That was not how energy stalkers worked in competitive pvp environments.

    Superjump and superspeed were the go to movement options of choice.
    A stalker would superspeed past you, start the animation of assassins strike and as long as the animation started ( and I believe it had to last either 1/4 of a second or 3/4 of a second) you would get hit with the Assassins strike. Meaning, you could be jumping in the air, and land for not even a second and as soon as you were a good 20-30 ft away you either died or got all your health taken away. God help you if you took any damage before then because then they could just run past you and use Total Focus ( the skill that had you use both hands in the air and slam down, was great made you look like the hulk beefin on ninjas) and kill you anyway.
    Then they had placate- a get out of free card that would let them redo this. I'll try and find a vid of it, CoH was love glad to see another player from their :D

    I did actually leave the game during i9 after playing since US beta launch, but yeah I did mention if you moved off and the stalker finished casting, you'd still take damage. But in GW2 it wouldn't be so bad, because you have invulnerabilities you could use etc. Also yes it's always great to see a fellow CoH player!

  • Klypto.1703Klypto.1703 Member ✭✭✭

    Bleh the people who complain about stealth also complain about anything else they don't know or don't care to learn how to fight against. So if this were to happen they would just find something else that I killed them with to QQ about. Especially rofl I go on rev and I was like you saw me coming right but then they go oh yer able to react too fast with rev and we go back to square one were they don't realize its not the class its not the stealth its you.

  • Inoki.6048Inoki.6048 Member ✭✭✭

    @XenesisII.1540 said:
    Stealth mechanics in this game are one of the worse in pvp settings.
    It will always be terrible because they will never change it since they've built a class entirely around it, the same class they also have hitting single targets the hardest.
    They've put in more reveals, then stealth trap, then a remove reveal, and now added mark, since the beginning for the game to deal with it is enough proof that it was never developed properly for the pvp environment in the first place.

    Anet only puts bandaids over bandaids over bandaids on problems, they will never overhaul this mechanic, they will never balance this mechanic or the classes that overuses it, people will have to accept that.

    Completely agree with this. If they'd remove stealth, Deadeye would either need to go, or they would have to give them very long range radius (2k+ perhaps) to make them a proper sniping class without stealth and in close combat, well, either improved mobility (not more dodges, but somehow tweaked base speed with movement-impairment negating effects), or semi-cloaking abilities, like when you equip Trapper runes and get a bit of Superspeed and a bit of Stealth as a form of cloaking to blend temporarily with the environment to allow them to retreat.

    As a sniper spec the focus should be heavy damage on long range, but I think it's hard to implement. While a spec like this is good for the FPS genre, I can see how it would annoy many people. Many newbies wouldn't dare enter WvW with a sniper on every higher rock waiting for them since gliding was introduced. They would never make it past the sentries at spawn points.

  • @Kylden Ar.3724 said:

    @Rayya.2591 said:
    stealth shoudn't make you invisible
    An example from other game : https://bnetcmsus-a.akamaihd.net/cms/content_folder_media/9f/9FARDCNDARAU1511386715378.gif


    I almost agree with that.

    @kash.9213 said:

    Stealth is an opener and an escape, what is there to tweak? If you don't want to watch people going into and out of stealth, then have fun watching me saunter over to you with my new sustainable traits/skills/utilities as a replacement that I can now actually do damage under the effects of the entire time and enjoy a Death's Judgement in your face. I can play with either stealth or sustain, think on it for a min and decide if you'd be fine with either and be honest about it after considering what the changes to the class would look like to have comparable sustainability, your complaints would almost instantly start looking like the complaints thieves have about other classes.

    Yeah, Stealth is a primary defense tool for 2 classes. Both of which are high burst (Theif, Mesmer). I am not sure people know what they are asking for if they take away stealth from those classes, cause it would need to be replaced with a different defense option (read: more sustain).

    Stealth is defense without damage reduction (by making you harder to notice or hit). If they gave us more defense WITH damage reduction, well, Mesmer is already insane there, and I can't imagine Daredevils with even more dodge/defense.

    so both actually need stealth because of all their sustain, dodges and defenses. Well, just another reason to remove this entirely broken mechanic - without replacement.

  • Kylden Ar.3724Kylden Ar.3724 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 13, 2018

    @VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618 said:

    @Kylden Ar.3724 said:

    @Rayya.2591 said:
    stealth shoudn't make you invisible
    An example from other game : https://bnetcmsus-a.akamaihd.net/cms/content_folder_media/9f/9FARDCNDARAU1511386715378.gif


    I almost agree with that.

    @kash.9213 said:

    Stealth is an opener and an escape, what is there to tweak? If you don't want to watch people going into and out of stealth, then have fun watching me saunter over to you with my new sustainable traits/skills/utilities as a replacement that I can now actually do damage under the effects of the entire time and enjoy a Death's Judgement in your face. I can play with either stealth or sustain, think on it for a min and decide if you'd be fine with either and be honest about it after considering what the changes to the class would look like to have comparable sustainability, your complaints would almost instantly start looking like the complaints thieves have about other classes.

    Yeah, Stealth is a primary defense tool for 2 classes. Both of which are high burst (Theif, Mesmer). I am not sure people know what they are asking for if they take away stealth from those classes, cause it would need to be replaced with a different defense option (read: more sustain).

    Stealth is defense without damage reduction (by making you harder to notice or hit). If they gave us more defense WITH damage reduction, well, Mesmer is already insane there, and I can't imagine Daredevils with even more dodge/defense.

    so both actually need stealth because of all their sustain, dodges and defenses. Well, just another reason to remove this entirely broken mechanic - without replacement.

    You're clearly not understanding the impact, you're just mad about a mechanic you haven't learned to counter play.

    The current stealth package is PART of their defense WITHOUT being Sustain (because it only prevents damage at range, and if you're not trying to cleave/anticipate their burst you are doing it wrong). If you remove it, you either

    1) Replace with MORE SUSTAIN which makes them even more frustrating.

    2) Replace with more BURST/DPS, cause clearly you want to be one shot more, right?

    Also, let go dude. It was a 5 day old thread.

    Leader of PvE/WvW Havoc Guild - Tyrian Adventure Corporation [TACO] - Kaineng since the start, and till KN is no more.

    Do not fear simplification of the game, there is elegance in simplicity that allows more time for playing and less time building.

  • BlaqueFyre.5678BlaqueFyre.5678 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Spartacus.3192 said:
    tbh i dont mind stealth as a mechanic what i dont like is how ANET implemented it. It lasts too long and ANET gave traits that give too many buffs while in stealth. Also what the heck is it with moving "faster" in stealth? That just doesn't make sense. If you're trying to sneak around and not be seen you shouldn't be able to move faster than if you were just sprinting unstealthed. The last game i played did stealth right. They made it so you moved at 66% of normal speed while in stealth. You need to trait it just to be able to move at normal speed. You could NEVER move faster than normal speed while stealthed. That way if you tried to perma stealth you could never catch someone who was trying to run away from you. That in itself is a good counter.

    The only thing I like other games and lore, Thieves Stealth isn’t them trying to be sneaky, they are using Shadow magic to make them invisible no need to try sneak around slowly when you are just using magic to make you invisible.

  • Loke.1429Loke.1429 Member ✭✭
    edited January 26, 2019

    perma stealth is garbage. Im enjoying the game in wvw, then i meet perma stealth>waste a lot of time>get bored>strong urge to not play this game

  • It boggles my mind why not only did arenet make invisibility true invisibility with no tells, but also u cant damage someone that’s invisible? That’s ridiculous,ur invisible not like ur turning to mist or anything like that. Being able to damage opponents and revealing them when they take damage would help the cheese mechanic not seem so bad lol

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    It boggles my mind why not only did arenet make invisibility true invisibility with no tells, but also u cant damage someone that’s invisible? That’s ridiculous,ur invisible not like ur turning to mist or anything like that. Being able to damage opponents and revealing them when they take damage would help the cheese mechanic not seem so bad lol

    But thief is the worst 1v1 so it balances out.

    Also, what are you even talking about?

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    It boggles my mind why not only did arenet make invisibility true invisibility with no tells, but also u cant damage someone that’s invisible? That’s ridiculous,ur invisible not like ur turning to mist or anything like that. Being able to damage opponents and revealing them when they take damage would help the cheese mechanic not seem so bad lol

    But thief is the worst 1v1 so it balances out.

    Also, what are you even talking about?

    It's not the worst 1v1, it does heavily depend on the build the thief uses and the other class though. For example DP daredevil will beat power mes, non super tanky eles, core necros and reapers, used to beat core warrior and could beat revs OK. Sure you insta die if you make more than 2 mistakes but the fight is in your hands. S/D can counter a lot of melee builds with poor mobility and is a tank buster.

    In regards to WvW there's not a 1v1 the thief can't usually choose to stalemate or rather not lose except maybe holo and soulbeast.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    It boggles my mind why not only did arenet make invisibility true invisibility with no tells, but also u cant damage someone that’s invisible? That’s ridiculous,ur invisible not like ur turning to mist or anything like that. Being able to damage opponents and revealing them when they take damage would help the cheese mechanic not seem so bad lol

    But thief is the worst 1v1 so it balances out.

    Also, what are you even talking about?

    It's not the worst 1v1, it does heavily depend on the build the thief uses and the other class though. For example DP daredevil will beat power mes, non super tanky eles, core necros and reapers, used to beat core warrior and could beat revs OK. Sure you insta die if you make more than 2 mistakes but the fight is in your hands. S/D can counter a lot of melee builds with poor mobility and is a tank buster.

    In regards to WvW there's not a 1v1 the thief can't usually choose to stalemate or rather not lose except maybe holo and soulbeast.

    Oh it is according to the person I quoted, I assure you. No doubts about it.

  • @Kylden Ar.3724 said:

    @VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618 said:

    @Kylden Ar.3724 said:

    @Rayya.2591 said:
    stealth shoudn't make you invisible
    An example from other game : https://bnetcmsus-a.akamaihd.net/cms/content_folder_media/9f/9FARDCNDARAU1511386715378.gif


    I almost agree with that.

    @kash.9213 said:

    Stealth is an opener and an escape, what is there to tweak? If you don't want to watch people going into and out of stealth, then have fun watching me saunter over to you with my new sustainable traits/skills/utilities as a replacement that I can now actually do damage under the effects of the entire time and enjoy a Death's Judgement in your face. I can play with either stealth or sustain, think on it for a min and decide if you'd be fine with either and be honest about it after considering what the changes to the class would look like to have comparable sustainability, your complaints would almost instantly start looking like the complaints thieves have about other classes.

    Yeah, Stealth is a primary defense tool for 2 classes. Both of which are high burst (Theif, Mesmer). I am not sure people know what they are asking for if they take away stealth from those classes, cause it would need to be replaced with a different defense option (read: more sustain).

    Stealth is defense without damage reduction (by making you harder to notice or hit). If they gave us more defense WITH damage reduction, well, Mesmer is already insane there, and I can't imagine Daredevils with even more dodge/defense.

    so both actually need stealth because of all their sustain, dodges and defenses. Well, just another reason to remove this entirely broken mechanic - without replacement.

    You're clearly not understanding the impact, you're just mad about a mechanic you haven't learned to counter play.

    The current stealth package is PART of their defense WITHOUT being Sustain (because it only prevents damage at range, and if you're not trying to cleave/anticipate their burst you are doing it wrong). If you remove it, you either

    1) Replace with MORE SUSTAIN which makes them even more frustrating.

    2) Replace with more BURST/DPS, cause clearly you want to be one shot more, right?

    Also, let go dude. It was a 5 day old thread.

    no, just remove all thief and mesmer classes.

    There is no counter to stealth. So stealth must go. It really is that simple.

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    It boggles my mind why not only did arenet make invisibility true invisibility with no tells, but also u cant damage someone that’s invisible? That’s ridiculous,ur invisible not like ur turning to mist or anything like that. Being able to damage opponents and revealing them when they take damage would help the cheese mechanic not seem so bad lol

    But thief is the worst 1v1 so it balances out.

    Also, what are you even talking about?

    It's not the worst 1v1, it does heavily depend on the build the thief uses and the other class though. For example DP daredevil will beat power mes, non super tanky eles, core necros and reapers, used to beat core warrior and could beat revs OK. Sure you insta die if you make more than 2 mistakes but the fight is in your hands. S/D can counter a lot of melee builds with poor mobility and is a tank buster.

    In regards to WvW there's not a 1v1 the thief can't usually choose to stalemate or rather not lose except maybe holo and soulbeast.

    Oh it is according to the person I quoted, I assure you. No doubts about it.

    Ah my mistake, sorry.

  • @Kylden Ar.3724 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    It boggles my mind why not only did arenet make invisibility true invisibility with no tells, but also u cant damage someone that’s invisible? That’s ridiculous,ur invisible not like ur turning to mist or anything like that. Being able to damage opponents and revealing them when they take damage would help the cheese mechanic not seem so bad lol

    You are not immune to damage when in stealth. That is why smart players get off the ranged pew pew and go to melee cleave or Area of Effect to try and damage/tag them. I am not going to allow you to necro up this thread without outright falsehoods.

    @VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618 said:

    @Kylden Ar.3724 said:

    @VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618 said:

    @Kylden Ar.3724 said:

    @Rayya.2591 said:
    stealth shoudn't make you invisible
    An example from other game : https://bnetcmsus-a.akamaihd.net/cms/content_folder_media/9f/9FARDCNDARAU1511386715378.gif


    I almost agree with that.

    @kash.9213 said:

    Stealth is an opener and an escape, what is there to tweak? If you don't want to watch people going into and out of stealth, then have fun watching me saunter over to you with my new sustainable traits/skills/utilities as a replacement that I can now actually do damage under the effects of the entire time and enjoy a Death's Judgement in your face. I can play with either stealth or sustain, think on it for a min and decide if you'd be fine with either and be honest about it after considering what the changes to the class would look like to have comparable sustainability, your complaints would almost instantly start looking like the complaints thieves have about other classes.

    Yeah, Stealth is a primary defense tool for 2 classes. Both of which are high burst (Theif, Mesmer). I am not sure people know what they are asking for if they take away stealth from those classes, cause it would need to be replaced with a different defense option (read: more sustain).

    Stealth is defense without damage reduction (by making you harder to notice or hit). If they gave us more defense WITH damage reduction, well, Mesmer is already insane there, and I can't imagine Daredevils with even more dodge/defense.

    so both actually need stealth because of all their sustain, dodges and defenses. Well, just another reason to remove this entirely broken mechanic - without replacement.

    You're clearly not understanding the impact, you're just mad about a mechanic you haven't learned to counter play.

    The current stealth package is PART of their defense WITHOUT being Sustain (because it only prevents damage at range, and if you're not trying to cleave/anticipate their burst you are doing it wrong). If you remove it, you either

    1) Replace with MORE SUSTAIN which makes them even more frustrating.

    2) Replace with more BURST/DPS, cause clearly you want to be one shot more, right?

    Also, let go dude. It was a 5 day old thread.

    no, just remove all thief and mesmer classes.

    There is no counter to stealth. So stealth must go. It really is that simple.

    I got a better plan. Let's remove YOU from WvW and PvP, because clearly you're not willing to learn to play, and you're acting too sensitive to your losses for PvP modes.

    I can't believe you'd even suggest just removing 2 CORE classes cause you can't learn to beat them, cause YOU say YOU can't counter stealth, because there is plenty of people in WvW and PvP that in fact counter stealth all the time. What happens when they do remove stealth, and then you discover you can't deal with Guards and Warriors because of all the Blocks, Invulnerable, and Sustain? Going to ask for those classes to be removed? That's 5/9 gone. Eventually we'll be down to what, Necro only? What poor roaming class do you play so we all know what we're allowed to play?

    And really, over a MONTH OLD THREAD and you bring this kitten kitten up again? Get over it, please. ANet is not going to gut 2 classes, and they've done enough to stealth in WvW already. Learn to play or quit the mode. 80% of the content of this game is in PvE anyway where the mean old thieves and mesmers won't interfere with your play time.

    Huh I did not know that,I’ve tried so many times to damage a thief while their jumping there thier smoke field and can never seem to make mele contact when thier invisible

  • Kylden Ar.3724Kylden Ar.3724 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 27, 2019

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    Huh I did not know that,I’ve tried so many times to damage a thief while their jumping there thier smoke field and can never seem to make mele contact when thier invisible

    They only need it to START the invisibility, not stay that way. Most smart thieves are looking to move away or behind you at that point.

    And for the record, I have kept advocating for a fix to stealth for a while now, even as a stealth using class. I do think it should be for sneaking at range and breaking targeting, but not a close range get out of jail free card. But outright removing them would be gutting 2 classes and Xpacs that poeple paid for and very unfair.

    Leader of PvE/WvW Havoc Guild - Tyrian Adventure Corporation [TACO] - Kaineng since the start, and till KN is no more.

    Do not fear simplification of the game, there is elegance in simplicity that allows more time for playing and less time building.

  • Caedmon.6798Caedmon.6798 Member ✭✭✭

    @Brujeria.7536 said:
    Yes, stealth needs to be fully reworked, its a living meme . Especially in combination with mobility and other defense mechanics the problems get worse.

    For a bandaid fix there should be 5 seconds of "revealed" after leaving stealth, regardless if it expires or it gets removed by attacking. Furthermore inflicting conditions should also count as an attack.

    So the nec can spamm around with his eyes closed.Its actually funny that youre an actual nec suggesting this,funny..i mean ffing hilarious.

  • EremiteAngel.9765EremiteAngel.9765 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 29, 2019

    I shared this on another thread but wanted to share this here too in a stealth-related thread.

    This mainly refers to perma-stealth builds by Deadeyes though.

    I'm not okay roaming around, not seeing any enemy, then suddenly get a chunk of my HP torn off.
    Then I go OH a Deadeye is here.
    I want to be able to see my foe coming, and react accordingly to defend myself.
    Why should I have to lose a chunk of HP without even knowing its coming?

    I understand there are classes/builds that can survive an invis spike with passive traits/higher armor and then fight back after they realize a perma invis Deadeye is around.
    Which is fine, but just because someone can survive and fight back, doesn't make the perma-stealth mechanic OKAY.
    It doesn't matter if there are builds and classes that can survive the invis spike that came out of nowhere and fight back.

    My point is, why should I even take that hit without even knowing the DE was around in the first place?
    So much for skilled rewarding gameplay.

    Good rewarding mechanics allow you to see a burst coming and react to defend yourself.
    Against a Perma invis DE?
    Heh...you eat the burst first and then you react.
    Fun? No, its dumb.

    The perma stealth mechanic itself is counter-intuitive to skilled rewarding gameplay.
    Stealth at least can be sensed to an extent like 3-4 seconds duration.
    Perma? How are you going to sense let alone see it coming at all?

    A Hermit's Tale - To The Edge of the Mists [Link Here]

  • EremiteAngel.9765EremiteAngel.9765 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 29, 2019

    Oh and before I forget, if we are down for stealth-related balances apart from the problems with perma-invis Deadeyes, and that the ability to do stealth-stacking greatly reduces the opponent's ability to 'sense' an attack window in the next 3-4 seconds:

    Instead of looking at Deadeyes only, lets not forget that Mesmers and Rangers can do the same unhealthy spike damage from stealth.
    The issue isn't specifically a Deadeye-only problem.
    Damage from stealth as a whole needs to be looked at, not because the damage is high, but because it comes from stealth with massively reduced tells.
    This gives opponents very little reaction time to handle a stealth attack and consequently its damage has to be reduced.
    The main issue is reduced tells resulting in very little reaction time.
    Assuming we keep stealth mechanics as it is, without increasing its tells, then the damage has to go.
    No class should be rewarded for doing spike damage from invis that already has extremely reduced tells.
    This needs to be implemented across all classes and it will make sense to tackle the stealth damage problem as a whole rather than look at specific classes.

    Of course, if we want to look at the stealth mechanics itself instead of nerfing its damage, then like other posters have suggested to make it a semi-transparent figure or to increase the access of reveals greatly across all the classes' core skills would help.

    A Hermit's Tale - To The Edge of the Mists [Link Here]

  • Remove stealth and they will just overstack gapclosers. E.G - S/D thieves. So I guess OOC distance should be at least twice as long too

  • Kylden Ar.3724Kylden Ar.3724 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 29, 2019

    @EremiteAngel.9765 said:

    My point is, why should I even take that hit without even knowing the DE was around in the first place?
    So much for skilled rewarding gameplay.

    {snip}

    The perma stealth mechanic itself is counter-intuitive to skilled rewarding gameplay.
    Stealth at least can be sensed to an extent like 3-4 seconds duration.
    Perma? How are you going to sense let alone see it coming at all?

    What if I told you part of skilled gameplay is not just knowing buttons, skills and rotations?

    Part of it is know tactics, the map, reading enemy movements. Thinking, "Wow, this wide open space sure looks like a spot a sniper would set up in."

    Or knowing that a single slow target is the favorite of teefs and mesmers, and not trying to roam solo in a zerg class.

    (Yes, yes, I know, "Every class should be valid for everything" but they are not, have not been since HoT hit, and that bird has long flown so work in reality.)

    If you're not playing a class "good" at solo, then don't run solo.

    Leader of PvE/WvW Havoc Guild - Tyrian Adventure Corporation [TACO] - Kaineng since the start, and till KN is no more.

    Do not fear simplification of the game, there is elegance in simplicity that allows more time for playing and less time building.

  • @Straegen.2938 said:

    Tweaking stealth so it is an opener or escape rather than both will go a long ways towards removing one of the most crappy WvW mechanics this game has. Oh and yes, I mainly play a thief.

    1. If you mainly play thief then you know that the entire class is built around the stealth mechanic for any amount of sustainability while in fights. What would you propose otherwise?
    2. Why should a net even bother devoting dev time to completely reworking the entire trait/skill system of the game?

    it sounds like a l2p issue and learning how to effectively manage your CDs, Stunbreaks, etc. I've mained thief for 5 years, and I've never had difficulty with semi/perma stealth builds. 9 times out of 10 they do such minuscule damage that you can just avoid them all together or sustain them enough to where they give up. Semi/Perma Stealth has always, and probably always will be - a anti-noob build

  • @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

    Stealth doesn't need to be removed, I know some people would like that, but it's not needed. What is needed are some BUILDS, need to be adjusted to stop it's abuse, it doesn't need to be a blanket change to stealth either, as that will hurt other classes and builds. While core would need some changes over all, it would not hurt builds that don't fully depend on stealth for cheese one hit builds and constant resetting.

    A good example of someone playing a build with minimal stealth use, while still having access to it, however stealth is still available to remove some pressure.

    You're posting a vid from a highly skilled player 2 years ago. This build doesn't stand up today at all with the endurance redux.

  • @Spartacus.3192 said:
    I've said it before stealth in GW2 should be amended as follows.

    1. Stealth default speed should be 66% of normal speed. (when you're sneaking around you should be moving slower than someone who is just running in plain view).
    2. Traits should be able to increase speed in stealth BUT NEVER faster than 100% normal speed.
    3. Swiftness or Superspeed should not affect someone in stealth. ONLY traits can increase movement in stealth.
    4. This way someone with swiftness should be able to out run someone in stealth. I mean come on. Someone sprinting like Usain Bolt should be able to outrun someone trying not be seen.

    This amendment alone will make it such that the stealth player will not want to remain in semi or perma stealth because he will not be able to keep up with someone who doesn't want to fight him.

    You're proposing nerfs to a class that's already gone from Top Tier dueling/1v2 scenarios being unable to 1v1 effectively at all since PoF. What do you want next? Normal auto attack chains to be nerfed (Again) because Lotus strike has the potential to crit 2.5k on a warrior?

  • Spartacus.3192Spartacus.3192 Member ✭✭✭

    @xZombieTaco.5809 said:

    @Spartacus.3192 said:
    I've said it before stealth in GW2 should be amended as follows.

    1. Stealth default speed should be 66% of normal speed. (when you're sneaking around you should be moving slower than someone who is just running in plain view).
    2. Traits should be able to increase speed in stealth BUT NEVER faster than 100% normal speed.
    3. Swiftness or Superspeed should not affect someone in stealth. ONLY traits can increase movement in stealth.
    4. This way someone with swiftness should be able to out run someone in stealth. I mean come on. Someone sprinting like Usain Bolt should be able to outrun someone trying not be seen.

    This amendment alone will make it such that the stealth player will not want to remain in semi or perma stealth because he will not be able to keep up with someone who doesn't want to fight him.

    You're proposing nerfs to a class that's already gone from Top Tier dueling/1v2 scenarios being unable to 1v1 effectively at all since PoF. What do you want next? Normal auto attack chains to be nerfed (Again) because Lotus strike has the potential to crit 2.5k on a warrior?

    Other traits, damage modifiers can be buffed to bring its "duelling" ability up to scratch. However please note that a Deadeye doesn't "duel" from over 1200 range away while stealthed.

  • avey.4201avey.4201 Member ✭✭

    Anet should add a 2-3 second reveal when leaving stealth, sure stack your stealth and go out for your 1 hit cheese, I fight many deadeyes who do this, I'm glass and have no problem with it, but when you dodge their burst they have stealth on dodge so they shoot and dodge, therefore you dodge their 1 shot, but before you land your dodge they have restealthed leaving no window to counter attack, or retaliate, I have a reveal on DH, but it's not an AoE, and throwing this randomly can = death.
    If I get some objects to break line of sights I've managed to trick them into traps, but when your far from any safe area, and especially when no objects around to break line of sight, I've had 5 minute fights of nothing but standing and dodging the pew pew, basically you stand there dodging until you get too bored, or make a mistake, they sure don't have any pressure or tight window to maintain the stealth.

  • Straegen.2938Straegen.2938 Member ✭✭✭

    My original post isn't about removing stealth. My original post is about introducing more counter-play to stealth. There are already several solid non-stealth thief, mesmer builds so adjusting stealth and its various traits/skills isn't going to destroy these classes or even stealth builds.

    The "flaw" in the GW2 stealth design is that builds exist that hit like a truck from nowhere and literally disappear a second later and few classes have an effective counter option to the mechanic. This is simply a fact and has driven out more than one player from WvW.

  • crepuscular.9047crepuscular.9047 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:
    But I thought this kind of play was fun and enjoyable?

    The only reason I got the kill was by baiting him, let him get cocky, as the only way you get the kill is by them over investing, other wise it's just reset after reset.

    i fell asleep after just 1 min, was so boring to watch

    perma stealth to get behind enemy line and cause disruptions to the supply line is fine

    but perma dealth in combat is pure stupid, should throw a 99 invulnerable debuff while in stealth, there should not be 0% risk of being in stealth

    [RIP Fashion Wars 2005-2018]     [TTS] [KA] [SI]     [RIP Fashion Wars 2005-2018]
  • @NuhDah.9812 said:

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

    @TwiceDead.1963 said:
    Yes, you are completely right. Complete Stealth is a garbage mechanic that's boring to fight with and against.

    However, Thief exists. One of Thiefs class-mechanics is based and balanced around Stealth in it's current iteration. If you remove stealth, you have to completely revise how stealth-attacks work for Thieves, and consequently rework/buff the hell out of them since you leave a huge vacuum in their defensive arsenal if you remove it.

    So yeah. Stealth sucks. Even some thieves decide to run S/D Core, which has limited stealth application, in exchange for a more visible but evasive playstyle.

    Stealth doesn't need to be removed, I know some people would like that, but it's not needed. What is needed are some BUILDS, need to be adjusted to stop it's abuse, it doesn't need to be a blanket change to stealth either, as that will hurt other classes and builds. While core would need some changes over all, it would not hurt builds that don't fully depend on stealth for cheese one hit builds and constant resetting.

    A good example of someone playing a build with minimal stealth use, while still having access to it, however stealth is still available to remove some pressure.

    Woh, the times when DrD was like that are long gone. In the meanwhile they nerfed the endurance generation a lot, nerfed staff an dp, nerfed PI, nerfed leaps, nerfed dash... so yeah, the next logical step is to kill stealth too...

    Yeah, but... The already nerfed stealth by the sentries that's revealing you all time. I'm fine with upgraded towers but sentries.... Seriously?! Bring it back as it was. Or buff and nerf classes. Balance it more....

  • Emi.4152Emi.4152 Member ✭✭

    @EremiteAngel.9765 said:
    Oh and before I forget, if we are down for stealth-related balances apart from the problems with perma-invis Deadeyes, and that the ability to do stealth-stacking greatly reduces the opponent's ability to 'sense' an attack window in the next 3-4 seconds:

    Instead of looking at Deadeyes only, lets not forget that Mesmers and Rangers can do the same unhealthy spike damage from stealth.
    The issue isn't specifically a Deadeye-only problem.
    Damage from stealth as a whole needs to be looked at, not because the damage is high, but because it comes from stealth with massively reduced tells.
    This gives opponents very little reaction time to handle a stealth attack and consequently its damage has to be reduced.
    The main issue is reduced tells resulting in very little reaction time.
    Assuming we keep stealth mechanics as it is, without increasing its tells, then the damage has to go.
    No class should be rewarded for doing spike damage from invis that already has extremely reduced tells.
    This needs to be implemented across all classes and it will make sense to tackle the stealth damage problem as a whole rather than look at specific classes.

    Of course, if we want to look at the stealth mechanics itself instead of nerfing its damage, then like other posters have suggested to make it a semi-transparent figure or to increase the access of reveals greatly across all the classes' core skills would help.

    Outside of deadeye, tells for an incoming stealth burst is... numerous and obvious. mesmers either have a loud sound effect or will be pointing up at the sky like superman, within visual / audio range, and then gasp disappear! the burst itself isn't truly from stealth. dp thieves will make a BIG BANG and leave smoke circles, that... that they leap through in an overly dramatic fashion. dagger off-hand thieves will.. literally need slap you to stealth. rangers will leave a giant field of smoke... or be shooting at you. engis will have.... a helicopter following them... all of it, in visual range.

    The Stealth Burst doesn't just come out of nowhere. You always know, or should have known, that a high burst [enter class here] is close by, and get to watch them enter stealth. That is the tell! look around, are you the most dangerous damage dealer with limited defenses around? if so, YOU are the target. do something! If not, find that squishy dpser on your side and peel for them!! If you see a burst [enter class here] go into stealth, stare at the general area angrily, then proceed to walk around like nothing happened. You deserved it... is all i can say.

    FAQ
    Q: what if they stealth behind a wall?!
    A: you can still hear it! plus, for all you know, there's a zerg behind that wall! run for your life!

    Q: what if i saw the burst coming and still got hit by it?
    A: that's a question of skill...

    Q: it's not fair! they should face me on a flat ground, we should bow, and proceed to gallantly run at each other to fight!
    A: you... i... can't help you there.

    Q: the damage is too high! coming out of a no tell instant hit stealth attack!
    A: there are lots of tells... on the other hand, how much damage exactly, do you feel a full glass character with very few defenses should be able to do? O_o

  • NuhDah.9812NuhDah.9812 Member ✭✭✭

    @Lociaz.4027 said:

    @NuhDah.9812 said:

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

    @TwiceDead.1963 said:
    Yes, you are completely right. Complete Stealth is a garbage mechanic that's boring to fight with and against.

    However, Thief exists. One of Thiefs class-mechanics is based and balanced around Stealth in it's current iteration. If you remove stealth, you have to completely revise how stealth-attacks work for Thieves, and consequently rework/buff the hell out of them since you leave a huge vacuum in their defensive arsenal if you remove it.

    So yeah. Stealth sucks. Even some thieves decide to run S/D Core, which has limited stealth application, in exchange for a more visible but evasive playstyle.

    Stealth doesn't need to be removed, I know some people would like that, but it's not needed. What is needed are some BUILDS, need to be adjusted to stop it's abuse, it doesn't need to be a blanket change to stealth either, as that will hurt other classes and builds. While core would need some changes over all, it would not hurt builds that don't fully depend on stealth for cheese one hit builds and constant resetting.

    A good example of someone playing a build with minimal stealth use, while still having access to it, however stealth is still available to remove some pressure.

    Woh, the times when DrD was like that are long gone. In the meanwhile they nerfed the endurance generation a lot, nerfed staff an dp, nerfed PI, nerfed leaps, nerfed dash... so yeah, the next logical step is to kill stealth too...

    Yeah, but... The already nerfed stealth by the sentries that's revealing you all time. I'm fine with upgraded towers but sentries.... Seriously?! Bring it back as it was. Or buff and nerf classes. Balance it more....

    Sentries, I don't mind them too much. In a way it makes sneaking around them, or forcing you, as a thief, to make some prepartions of the field/choose where you fight and ambush more carefully. It's part of the thrill of the battle, if I may choose those words. Sometimes annoying, but not as much as being thrown traps at. Whatever, they had to do something about DE stealth camping in keeps and towers.

    But yeah, with how things are going, how much people prefere crying about stealth instead of learning the combat system and thinking of ways to play smart about it with the tools at their disposal, I wouldn't be surprised if one day stealth will be killed for real, just for the sake of people who can't adapt on the spot.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2, 2019

    @crepuscular.9047 said:

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:
    But I thought this kind of play was fun and enjoyable?

    The only reason I got the kill was by baiting him, let him get cocky, as the only way you get the kill is by them over investing, other wise it's just reset after reset.

    i fell asleep after just 1 min, was so boring to watch

    perma stealth to get behind enemy line and cause disruptions to the supply line is fine

    but perma dealth in combat is pure stupid, should throw a 99 invulnerable debuff while in stealth, there should not be 0% risk of being in stealth

    Well, why do you think thief has one of the lowest base hp in the game? Why do most of them build for dps? Good thieves can be hella good but they share the same flaws as everybody else that build for damage. Bad thieves, well... The stealth can be annoying, but it's really no different from any other OP class mechanic, which all of them have one way or another, either in solo or group combat. At the the end of the day what you want next to you in combat is an effective player.

    Here's another video for funs sake. I promise you'll be bored within 30s instead.

    A good warrior with zero stealth would have brought me down far quicker, as would... hm... well literally any other player worth his salt on any other class. I'm sure his buddies saluted his awesome permastealthing skillz.

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @crepuscular.9047 said:

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:
    But I thought this kind of play was fun and enjoyable?

    The only reason I got the kill was by baiting him, let him get cocky, as the only way you get the kill is by them over investing, other wise it's just reset after reset.

    i fell asleep after just 1 min, was so boring to watch

    perma stealth to get behind enemy line and cause disruptions to the supply line is fine

    but perma dealth in combat is pure stupid, should throw a 99 invulnerable debuff while in stealth, there should not be 0% risk of being in stealth

    Well, why do you think thief has one of the lowest base hp in the game? Why do most of them build for dps? Good thieves can be hella good but they share the same flaws as everybody else that build for damage. Bad thieves, well... The stealth can be annoying, but it's really no different from any other OP class mechanic, which all of them have one way or another, either in solo or group combat. At the the end of the day what you want next to you in combat is an effective player.

    Here's another video for funs sake. I promise you'll be bored within 30s instead.

    A good warrior with zero stealth would have brought me down far quicker, as would... hm... well literally any other player worth his salt on any other class. I'm sure his buddies saluted his awesome permastealthing skillz.

    Nope we don't, if I ever saw that thief die I'd join you in the CJ and decorating. Your server has 2 perma stealth DE's that like to wait at duel spots and kill anyone duelling with 18k BS, one is bad enough to kill but the other high tails it outta there if he doesn't manage the kill and lurks nearby to make sure you have 0 fun.

    Rather than implementing these marked changes I think they need a hard cap on stealth duration, rebalance duration and cool down across classes that do use stealth and force reveal after exiting stealth. Then remove shadow meld, when you bring out counters to counters you know someone goofed somewhere.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @apharma.3741 said:
    Your server has 2 perma stealth DE's that like to wait at duel spots and kill anyone duelling with 18k BS, one is bad enough to kill but the other high tails it outta there if he doesn't manage the kill and lurks nearby to make sure you have 0 fun.

    That means very little I'm on their link that everybody bandwagoned to (my favorite blocked people have returned, yay). But there are people like that everywhere and well, thats WvW. There are no rules for "fun".

  • The simple answer is to lose stealth the moment the player hits an attack ability, and the stealth is lost before the animation of attack. Anyone agree or no? As mirage I'm fine with that. Gives all classes chances to react, at least give them the ability to see the opponent before damage is taken, not see them after damage is taken.

  • MUDse.7623MUDse.7623 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Avion Blade.4869 said:
    The simple answer is to lose stealth the moment the player hits an attack ability, and the stealth is lost before the animation of attack. Anyone agree or no? As mirage I'm fine with that. Gives all classes chances to react, at least give them the ability to see the opponent before damage is taken, not see them after damage is taken.

    you realize that you wont be able to use sword leap while stealthed then to get some distance? wether some skill is used as an attack or not is not easy to detect by the game. for thief this would further be a nerf to d/p darevil/core stealth uptime while not affecting deadeye much because silent scope is not an attack but heartseeker/bound to stealth is an attack. so i guess you will see some resistance from the thief community here, many of em in this forum dont seem to enjoy playing deadeye.

    read this, become a better player now.

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