Healing output comparison after the new patch — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Healing output comparison after the new patch

messiah.1908messiah.1908 Member ✭✭✭✭

so I'm continuing to compare the healing output in gvg/wvw squad fight between FB, SCRAPPER and Healing Ventari
probably all agree on the rune of the monk used with these classes.

the easy output is done via regen
i manage to gain 1,050 regen output with herald/ventari
with FB it was 650-660
with scrapper it was same 650-670

with all the other active and passive skills and trait ventari/herald is the best doing easy sustain healing with facet while maintain protection also on 10 allies with or maintain 1.5k healing per second doing nothing but using facet of light of 5 allies each (total of 7.5k hps)
with ventari it was much higher (without natural harmony) 3k hps on 1 ally (total of 15k hps)

has anyone gain higher/different numbers?

Comments

  • DanAlcedo.3281DanAlcedo.3281 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 23, 2018

    Its the same as before.

    Firebrand has ok heals combined with everything else.

    Ventari Rev has the best Burst Heal and ok sustain heal.

    Scrapper has the best potential heal per second by far and no downtime on healing.

    The only change is that some scrapper have started to run Antitoxin runes for insane condi cleansing instead of more healing.

    Btw. I made a post about rev regen on reddit yesterday.

    With Dwayna: 1261 healing per second

    With monk: 1176 healing per second

    All i can say after my tests is that Soothing Mist Tempest is a better version of Regen Focused Rev.

    Edit: Pre Patch Scrapper was around 35k heal per second

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Its not about out going healing its about being able to heal your self and others at the same time or being a bunker that was buffed a great deal in the rune update.

  • Pterikdactyl.7630Pterikdactyl.7630 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 23, 2018

    I was getting above 1100 with full Minstrel's & Rice/Oil when I ran with my heal Rev yesterday. I think like 1150ish? Most likely that was with full stacks of Life runes. I prefer Minstrel's not just because of the extra survivability and boon duration, but also because Hardening Foundation and Bountiful Maintenance Oil help bridge the healing potency gap between it and Cleric's.

  • Don't tell your FBs, but they should be running Mercy runes, not Monk. If incoming damage is exceeding the sustain of Minstrel's/Mercy, it's probably going to be exceeding the sustain of Minstrel's/Monk, too, and at that point, you've got friendly downs, which makes a stronger MI more useful.

    But if your hand touches metal, I swear by my pretty floral bonnet I will end you.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The problem with healing is that it never tells the whole story if you just look at numbers.

    Sometimes you need tons of heals in the frontline to survive a push - and since the fbs will generally always be there at any given moment they become the "best".

    Other times, the reason your zerg loose is because you dont have scrappers to just generally sustain the zerg and cleanse basic condis that keeps eating the tail because it slows them down so they cant keep up with the commander.

  • DanAlcedo.3281DanAlcedo.3281 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 23, 2018

    @Optimator.3589 said:
    Don't tell your FBs, but they should be running Mercy runes, not Monk. If incoming damage is exceeding the sustain of Minstrel's/Mercy, it's probably going to be exceeding the sustain of Minstrel's/Monk, too, and at that point, you've got friendly downs, which makes a stronger MI more useful.

    To be honest.
    I have never seen a Firebrand with Monk Runes. Ever.

    Last time i played Firebrand, Water Runes was considered best in slot.

    „Shrugs“

  • I find it strange that ventari regeneration is so much higher than scrapper.
    The regeneration itself is of course buffed on Ventari... But scrapper apply regeneration on cleanse for each condition without ICD. So, getting regeneration on all people in your zerg should be possible.
    Also, Medical Dispersion Field is the main heal output of scrappers. In some cases regeneration output is higher, but most of the time, MDF is 20-40% stronger.

    In my opinion, Antitoxin is a better match for conversion holosmiths, since they can go to condi/dual damage builds and make use of the condition damage. In theory, could have cleansed 6 conditions/s constantly. Now with antitoxin all cleanses are doubled (max 12 cleanses/s). Healscrapper has in principle 4/s, but in reality, I usually stay at 2 conditions/s. Antitoxin is increasing this drastically, but you also loose around 30-40% of your healing output.

    The new Monk-Rune in comparison to the old one gives "only" an additional +10% outgoing heal. The condition is almost always fulfilled in a fight, thanks to the purity of purpose and a few boons you give.
    So, no changes internally.

    I changed my build to use altruism, though. It is missing the +10%(+20%) healbuff, but gives 125 Healing power, so it's only a +3%(+13%) loss. In addition, thanks to the additional cleansing you can apply more regeneration with comeback cure.
    However, using mortar-kit, you can cleanse a condition in your group every second as long as you switch to and from the kit. Downside is, you get the conditions you removed. However, less group cleanses from you and your guard are then needed. And you can constantly remove weak conditions without wasting medkit-3, super-elixir or blast finishers. Great for example against keep's chilling fog. ^^

    I tested altruism in a guild setup (one firebrand per group, 20 players, couple dmg-heralds, weavers and spellbreaker, a mesmer, 2 heal scrappers, rest necros). During a evening-raid on a borderland I made video files and evaluated my healing and cleanse output:

    Each fight is evaluated into a dot.
    Personal amount of outgoing cleanses divided by the time of the fight is left.
    Personal heal output divided by total damage on all people is right.
    Source is ArcDPS at the end of each fight.
    Results are 2.3 Cleanses/s and 22% heal of total damage.
    We don't do scrims or GVGs, so there are open-field fights, choke fights and keep fights mixed.

  • messiah.1908messiah.1908 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dediggefedde.4961 said:
    I find it strange that ventari regeneration is so much higher than scrapper.
    The regeneration itself is of course buffed on Ventari... But scrapper apply regeneration on cleanse for each condition without ICD. So, getting regeneration on all people in your zerg should be possible.
    Also, Medical Dispersion Field is the main heal output of scrappers. In some cases regeneration output is higher, but most of the time, MDF is 20-40% stronger.

    In my opinion, Antitoxin is a better match for conversion holosmiths, since they can go to condi/dual damage builds and make use of the condition damage. In theory, could have cleansed 6 conditions/s constantly. Now with antitoxin all cleanses are doubled (max 12 cleanses/s). Healscrapper has in principle 4/s, but in reality, I usually stay at 2 conditions/s. Antitoxin is increasing this drastically, but you also loose around 30-40% of your healing output.

    The new Monk-Rune in comparison to the old one gives "only" an additional +10% outgoing heal. The condition is almost always fulfilled in a fight, thanks to the purity of purpose and a few boons you give.
    So, no changes internally.

    I changed my build to use altruism, though. It is missing the +10%(+20%) healbuff, but gives 125 Healing power, so it's only a +3%(+13%) loss. In addition, thanks to the additional cleansing you can apply more regeneration with comeback cure.
    However, using mortar-kit, you can cleanse a condition in your group every second as long as you switch to and from the kit. Downside is, you get the conditions you removed. However, less group cleanses from you and your guard are then needed. And you can constantly remove weak conditions without wasting medkit-3, super-elixir or blast finishers. Great for example against keep's chilling fog. ^^

    I tested altruism in a guild setup (one firebrand per group, 20 players, couple dmg-heralds, weavers and spellbreaker, a mesmer, 2 heal scrappers, rest necros). During a evening-raid on a borderland I made video files and evaluated my healing and cleanse output:

    Each fight is evaluated into a dot.
    Personal amount of outgoing cleanses divided by the time of the fight is left.
    Personal heal output divided by total damage on all people is right.
    Source is ArcDPS at the end of each fight.
    Results are 2.3 Cleanses/s and 22% heal of total damage.
    We don't do scrims or GVGs, so there are open-field fights, choke fights and keep fights mixed.

    can you teach me how you learn your heal % per fight? i use arcdps too...

  • messiah.1908messiah.1908 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dediggefedde.4961 said:

    The new Monk-Rune in comparison to the old one gives "only" an additional +10% outgoing heal. The condition is almost always fulfilled in a fight, thanks to the purity of purpose and a few boons you give.
    So, no changes internally.

    inorder to get the 10% with boons and cleanse you have to use skills which cleanse while doing so you dont use heal skills so loosing HPS.... Dont you?

    I changed my build to use altruism, though. It is missing the +10%(+20%) healbuff, but gives 125 Healing power, so it's only a +3%(+13%) loss. In addition, thanks to the additional cleansing you can apply more regeneration with comeback cure.
    However, using mortar-kit, you can cleanse a condition in your group every second as long as you switch to and from the kit. Downside is, you get the conditions you removed. However, less group cleanses from you and your guard are then needed. And you can constantly remove weak conditions without wasting medkit-3, super-elixir or blast finishers. Great for example against keep's chilling fog. ^^

    and again spamming elite skill making you lossing your hps over better cleanse abilities.

  • messiah.1908messiah.1908 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @DanAlcedo.3281 said:
    Its the same as before.

    Firebrand has ok heals combined with everything else.

    Ventari Rev has the best Burst Heal and ok sustain heal.

    Scrapper has the best potential heal per second by far and no downtime on healing.

    The only change is that some scrapper have started to run Antitoxin runes for insane condi cleansing instead of more healing.

    Btw. I made a post about rev regen on reddit yesterday.

    can you url the post you've made?

    With Dwayna: 1261 healing per second

    With monk: 1176 healing per second

    monk and dwayna should give the same as both have 20% healing output.

    All i can say after my tests is that Soothing Mist Tempest is a better version of Regen Focused Rev.

    how so? tempest has max 70% healing output

    Edit: Pre Patch Scrapper was around 35k heal per second

    i am testing on actual team fights not theory.

  • SkyShroud.2865SkyShroud.2865 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Your regen not gonna keep you alive against a group of scourge and some herald.

    Founder & Leader of Equinox Solstice [TIME], a Singapore-Based International PvX Guild
    Henge of Denravi Server
    www.gw2time.com

    --

    Explanations of WvW Structures & Populations Issues

  • @DanAlcedo.3281 said:
    Edit: Pre Patch Scrapper was around 35k heal per second

    pre patch ventari (assuming no overheals so grain of salt) was just under 39k.

  • @messiah.1908 said:
    can you teach me how you learn your heal % per fight? i use arcdps too...

    In area-stats you can view the incoming damage by checking "IN". In the title you can display the sum by adding a @2 in the display settings.
    In personal skills, you can check "friendly" and "outgoing". Then you get a list with each of your heal skills.
    In Order to get the % of total damage healed, I sum the personal outgoing heals up by hand and divide it afterwards by the total incoming damage of area-stats.

    @messiah.1908 said:
    inorder to get the 10% with boons and cleanse you have to use skills which cleanse while doing so you dont use heal skills so loosing HPS.... Dont you?
    and again spamming elite skill making you lossing your hps over better cleanse abilities.

    That is true and the logical consequence is not spamming elite while you need to heal. MDF and Regeneration will already heal pretty strong passively without you spamming Medikit-1. Also usually a big part of the fight time everyone is at full life. There it is really neat to remove movement impeding conditions and prestack additional regeneration. There are often situations where people have conditions but don't really need heal, so it's an ideal rune in those cases.
    Also don't spam that anyway without being able to remove the conditions:

  • @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @DanAlcedo.3281 said:
    Edit: Pre Patch Scrapper was around 35k heal per second

    pre patch ventari (assuming no overheals so grain of salt) was just under 39k.

    Love me some thick heals

  • DanAlcedo.3281DanAlcedo.3281 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 23, 2018

    @messiah.1908 said:

    @DanAlcedo.3281 said:
    Its the same as before.

    Firebrand has ok heals combined with everything else.

    Ventari Rev has the best Burst Heal and ok sustain heal.

    Scrapper has the best potential heal per second by far and no downtime on healing.

    The only change is that some scrapper have started to run Antitoxin runes for insane condi cleansing instead of more healing.

    Btw. I made a post about rev regen on reddit yesterday.

    can you url the post you've made?

    With Dwayna: 1261 healing per second

    With monk: 1176 healing per second

    monk and dwayna should give the same as both have 20% healing output.

    All i can say after my tests is that Soothing Mist Tempest is a better version of Regen Focused Rev.

    how so? tempest has max 70% healing output

    Edit: Pre Patch Scrapper was around 35k heal per second

    i am testing on actual team fights not theory.

    Url: https://old.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/9zh4qo/regeneration_dwayna_vs_monk_test/?st=jouitv6v&sh=2ebf32bc

    Yes Monk and dwayna SHOULD give the same but i get different results with the exact same Healpower and Modifier aktiv.

    For Tempest VS Regen Rev.

    Lets say you get consistently regen on 10 Targets. Lets say 1k heal for this discussion. Thats 10k per seconds as your main heal. (We focus on that here)
    The problem with that is that you "overwrite" the already high healing regen of the Firebrands ( who also should give perma or near perma regen).
    So the effectiv healing you give out is in reality not that high.

    Everyone in the zerg should have regen anyway, so you just give them a better version.

    Tempest with Soothing Mist heals around 900 per second currently ( could be wrong here) and with camping water and not being in a group/squad you get the Soothing Mist effect on more then 5 people.

    I think realistic is around 12. Which would result in around 10-11k per second.

    Sure, that build is not the best but Soothing Mist is a unique Heal scource that just adds to regen.

    Basicaly, the Healing you do with just standing around doing nothing, both build are around equal in Healing per second.

    Herald offers obviously more then just healing.

    To the 35k on Scrapper.

    Ofc you will never see the "spreadsheet" Numbers because the enemy has to do enough dmg for your heal to do there full potential while simultaneously not killing the dude you are healing.

    In Theory, yes you can achive this number and now even higher but this would mean you have to drop Purity of Purpose in favor of HGH for Perma Quickness with 45% Boon Duration.

    The biggest reason i love Medi scrapper is not his Insane potential Healing or his condi cleases but the simple fact that you have no downtime on healing, unlike other classes that are bound to cds.

    Edit: I also test every build in the open field but also do "spreadsheet" first so i can see the differens.

  • messiah.1908messiah.1908 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @DanAlcedo.3281 said:

    @messiah.1908 said:

    @DanAlcedo.3281 said:
    Its the same as before.

    Firebrand has ok heals combined with everything else.

    Ventari Rev has the best Burst Heal and ok sustain heal.

    Scrapper has the best potential heal per second by far and no downtime on healing.

    The only change is that some scrapper have started to run Antitoxin runes for insane condi cleansing instead of more healing.

    Btw. I made a post about rev regen on reddit yesterday.

    can you url the post you've made?

    With Dwayna: 1261 healing per second

    With monk: 1176 healing per second

    monk and dwayna should give the same as both have 20% healing output.

    All i can say after my tests is that Soothing Mist Tempest is a better version of Regen Focused Rev.

    how so? tempest has max 70% healing output

    Edit: Pre Patch Scrapper was around 35k heal per second

    i am testing on actual team fights not theory.

    Url: https://old.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/9zh4qo/regeneration_dwayna_vs_monk_test/?st=jouitv6v&sh=2ebf32bc

    Yes Monk and dwayna SHOULD give the same but i get different results with the exact same Healpower and Modifier aktiv.

    For Tempest VS Regen Rev.

    Lets say you get consistently regen on 10 Targets. Lets say 1k heal for this discussion. Thats 10k per seconds as your main heal. (We focus on that here)
    The problem with that is that you "overwrite" the already high healing regen of the Firebrands ( who also should give perma or near perma regen).
    So the effectiv healing you give out is in reality not that high.

    Everyone in the zerg should have regen anyway, so you just give them a better version.

    Tempest with Soothing Mist heals around 900 per second currently ( could be wrong here) and with camping water and not being in a group/squad you get the Soothing Mist effect on more then 5 people.

    I think realistic is around 12. Which would result in around 10-11k per second.

    Sure, that build is not the best but Soothing Mist is a unique Heal scource that just adds to regen.

    Basicaly, the Healing you do with just standing around doing nothing, both build are around equal in Healing per second.

    Herald offers obviously more then just healing.

    To the 35k on Scrapper.

    Ofc you will never see the "spreadsheet" Numbers because the enemy has to do enough dmg for your heal to do there full potential while simultaneously not killing the dude you are healing.

    In Theory, yes you can achive this number and now even higher but this would mean you have to drop Purity of Purpose in favor of HGH for Perma Quickness with 45% Boon Duration.

    The biggest reason i love Medi scrapper is not his Insane potential Healing or his condi cleases but the simple fact that you have no downtime on healing, unlike other classes that are bound to cds.

    Edit: I also test every build in the open field but also do "spreadsheet" first so i can see the differens.

    i build ele healer and the result worse that i've expected.
    soothing mist is about 900 every sec (with 18k hp and 1750 healing power with 2700 toughness and monk rune)
    regen is 600 healing per second
    so total passive heal is 1500 per second

    rev with herald gives 1100 regen and with elevated compassion gives another 600 per second which is 1700 healing per second.
    with ventari you get even higher passive heals with facet of nature 400 hps, project tranquility 330 hps, regen 1100, ventari will 1200 hps which is 3,030 hps (you can get higher to 3,300 hps if using elevated compassion with nourishing routs and loosing 20% healing)

    the great thing i think group sometime misses is the combination of healing sources

    ele soothing mist 900 hps
    rev regen 1100 and elevated compassion 600
    FB vor passive is about 500 hps
    so total you get 3100 hps

  • DanAlcedo.3281DanAlcedo.3281 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 26, 2018

    @messiah.1908 said:

    @DanAlcedo.3281 said:

    @messiah.1908 said:

    @DanAlcedo.3281 said:
    Its the same as before.

    Firebrand has ok heals combined with everything else.

    Ventari Rev has the best Burst Heal and ok sustain heal.

    Scrapper has the best potential heal per second by far and no downtime on healing.

    The only change is that some scrapper have started to run Antitoxin runes for insane condi cleansing instead of more healing.

    Btw. I made a post about rev regen on reddit yesterday.

    can you url the post you've made?

    With Dwayna: 1261 healing per second

    With monk: 1176 healing per second

    monk and dwayna should give the same as both have 20% healing output.

    All i can say after my tests is that Soothing Mist Tempest is a better version of Regen Focused Rev.

    how so? tempest has max 70% healing output

    Edit: Pre Patch Scrapper was around 35k heal per second

    i am testing on actual team fights not theory.

    Url: https://old.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/9zh4qo/regeneration_dwayna_vs_monk_test/?st=jouitv6v&sh=2ebf32bc

    Yes Monk and dwayna SHOULD give the same but i get different results with the exact same Healpower and Modifier aktiv.

    For Tempest VS Regen Rev.

    Lets say you get consistently regen on 10 Targets. Lets say 1k heal for this discussion. Thats 10k per seconds as your main heal. (We focus on that here)
    The problem with that is that you "overwrite" the already high healing regen of the Firebrands ( who also should give perma or near perma regen).
    So the effectiv healing you give out is in reality not that high.

    Everyone in the zerg should have regen anyway, so you just give them a better version.

    Tempest with Soothing Mist heals around 900 per second currently ( could be wrong here) and with camping water and not being in a group/squad you get the Soothing Mist effect on more then 5 people.

    I think realistic is around 12. Which would result in around 10-11k per second.

    Sure, that build is not the best but Soothing Mist is a unique Heal scource that just adds to regen.

    Basicaly, the Healing you do with just standing around doing nothing, both build are around equal in Healing per second.

    Herald offers obviously more then just healing.

    To the 35k on Scrapper.

    Ofc you will never see the "spreadsheet" Numbers because the enemy has to do enough dmg for your heal to do there full potential while simultaneously not killing the dude you are healing.

    In Theory, yes you can achive this number and now even higher but this would mean you have to drop Purity of Purpose in favor of HGH for Perma Quickness with 45% Boon Duration.

    The biggest reason i love Medi scrapper is not his Insane potential Healing or his condi cleases but the simple fact that you have no downtime on healing, unlike other classes that are bound to cds.

    Edit: I also test every build in the open field but also do "spreadsheet" first so i can see the differens.

    i build ele healer and the result worse that i've expected.
    soothing mist is about 900 every sec (with 18k hp and 1750 healing power with 2700 toughness and monk rune)
    regen is 600 healing per second
    so total passive heal is 1500 per second

    rev with herald gives 1100 regen and with elevated compassion gives another 600 per second which is 1700 healing per second.
    with ventari you get even higher passive heals with facet of nature 400 hps, project tranquility 330 hps, regen 1100, ventari will 1200 hps which is 3,030 hps (you can get higher to 3,300 hps if using elevated compassion with nourishing routs and loosing 20% healing)

    the great thing i think group sometime misses is the combination of healing sources

    ele soothing mist 900 hps
    rev regen 1100 and elevated compassion 600
    FB vor passive is about 500 hps
    so total you get 3100 hps

    The only thing Tempest has that good is a unique Healing Effect.

    And the fact that you have to camp water is just „Urgh“.

    One of these healers that look good on paper but are just Meh in action.

    I say, stick to Rev/Medi Scrapper or Firebrand.

  • Mil.3562Mil.3562 Member ✭✭✭

    @DanAlcedo.3281 said:
    i build ele healer and the result worse that i've expected.
    soothing mist is about 900 every sec (with 18k hp and 1750 healing power with 2700 toughness and monk rune)
    regen is 600 healing per second
    so total passive heal is 1500 per second

    rev with herald gives 1100 regen and with elevated compassion gives another 600 per second which is 1700 healing per second.
    with ventari you get even higher passive heals with facet of nature 400 hps, project tranquility 330 hps, regen 1100, ventari will 1200 hps which is 3,030 hps (you can get higher to 3,300 hps if using elevated compassion with nourishing routs and loosing 20% healing)

    the great thing i think group sometime misses is the combination of healing sources

    ele soothing mist 900 hps
    rev regen 1100 and elevated compassion 600
    FB vor passive is about 500 hps
    so total you get 3100 hps

    Can you share how to get 900 hps healing mist with 18k hp and 2700 toughness? For me, even with full ascended gears and weapons, it's always high heals but low hp or low toughness, or moderate heals but high hp and high toughness, depending on how i mix the Cleric, Magi or Minstrel stats. It really puzzle me how players get so high stats on all three, that is, heals, hp and toughness.

    You guys are only comparing passive regen and hps, what about those active heals from weapon skills, skill bars and elite skill? Don't you have to take those into consideration too when comparing healing effectiveness?

  • Yesterday we had another guild WvW-Raid with around 20 People.
    Two healscrappers, both using altruism runes.
    It was fun bouncing the conditions between us. ^^
    I think it was 30 stacks of bleeding they every second was bounced between us. With blindness, we were able to stack a minute of fury on each other (in addition to regeneration by comeback-cure).

    Just packing and stowing mortar-kit got me around 3k hps due to purity-of-purpose and comeback-cure. So I think I'll stick with that. Also, I'm more a fan of mortar due to the tactical fields, range, projectile-arc, and low CD...

  • messiah.1908messiah.1908 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dediggefedde.4961 said:
    Yesterday we had another guild WvW-Raid with around 20 People.
    Two healscrappers, both using altruism runes.
    It was fun bouncing the conditions between us. ^^
    I think it was 30 stacks of bleeding they every second was bounced between us. With blindness, we were able to stack a minute of fury on each other (in addition to regeneration by comeback-cure).

    Just packing and stowing mortar-kit got me around 3k hps due to purity-of-purpose and comeback-cure. So I think I'll stick with that. Also, I'm more a fan of mortar due to the tactical fields, range, projectile-arc, and low CD...

    how you manage to cleanse them every second?

  • @Mil.3562 said:

    @DanAlcedo.3281 said:
    i build ele healer and the result worse that i've expected.
    soothing mist is about 900 every sec (with 18k hp and 1750 healing power with 2700 toughness and monk rune)
    regen is 600 healing per second
    so total passive heal is 1500 per second

    rev with herald gives 1100 regen and with elevated compassion gives another 600 per second which is 1700 healing per second.
    with ventari you get even higher passive heals with facet of nature 400 hps, project tranquility 330 hps, regen 1100, ventari will 1200 hps which is 3,030 hps (you can get higher to 3,300 hps if using elevated compassion with nourishing routs and loosing 20% healing)

    the great thing i think group sometime misses is the combination of healing sources

    ele soothing mist 900 hps
    rev regen 1100 and elevated compassion 600
    FB vor passive is about 500 hps
    so total you get 3100 hps

    Can you share how to get 900 hps healing mist with 18k hp and 2700 toughness? For me, even with full ascended gears and weapons, it's always high heals but low hp or low toughness, or moderate heals but high hp and high toughness, depending on how i mix the Cleric, Magi or Minstrel stats. It really puzzle me how players get so high stats on all three, that is, heals, hp and toughness.

    You guys are only comparing passive regen and hps, what about those active heals from weapon skills, skill bars and elite skill? Don't you have to take those into consideration too when comparing healing effectiveness?

    You get Soothing Mist that high with the trait Soothing Power (Water grandmaster)

  • messiah.1908messiah.1908 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Mil.3562 said:

    @DanAlcedo.3281 said:
    i build ele healer and the result worse that i've expected.
    soothing mist is about 900 every sec (with 18k hp and 1750 healing power with 2700 toughness and monk rune)
    regen is 600 healing per second
    so total passive heal is 1500 per second

    rev with herald gives 1100 regen and with elevated compassion gives another 600 per second which is 1700 healing per second.
    with ventari you get even higher passive heals with facet of nature 400 hps, project tranquility 330 hps, regen 1100, ventari will 1200 hps which is 3,030 hps (you can get higher to 3,300 hps if using elevated compassion with nourishing routs and loosing 20% healing)

    the great thing i think group sometime misses is the combination of healing sources

    ele soothing mist 900 hps
    rev regen 1100 and elevated compassion 600
    FB vor passive is about 500 hps
    so total you get 3100 hps

    Can you share how to get 900 hps healing mist with 18k hp and 2700 toughness? For me, even with full ascended gears and weapons, it's always high heals but low hp or low toughness, or moderate heals but high hp and high toughness, depending on how i mix the Cleric, Magi or Minstrel stats. It really puzzle me how players get so high stats on all three, that is, heals, hp and toughness.

    You guys are only comparing passive regen and hps, what about those active heals from weapon skills, skill bars and elite skill? Don't you have to take those into consideration too when comparing healing effectiveness?

    there you go

    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQFAWn0XCVYiFYCOYCcYilXAzdqeV/qEDgAwPsYIO/eAA-j1RDQBYS9hLpCjEV+FSlgy7BA6Aiy+DA4CAEA4A44jDAHf8xHf8x14jP+4jP+4jP+4SB43ML-w

    soothing mist will heal with soothing power for 1600 +2healing power= 1600+21850=5300 for 10 sec which is 530 hps.
    healing effectiveness increase 15%+10%+10%+20%+15%= 70%
    530*1.7=901 hps for allies

    i am comparing passive heal to evaluate the baseline healing
    with other skills rev is the best hps , than scrapper , than FB and ele .

    ele AA need to target enemy to heal around it. so if enemy move from your group little bit you can miss the heal. it might work with zerg but not with small 20 squad.

    ele has nice water field and blast finisher and frost aura which reduce dmg by 10%. but long cd. so this skills effective on restack mainly.

  • ele AA need to target enemy to heal around it. so if enemy move from your group little bit you can miss the heal. it might work with zerg but not with small 20 squad.

    You can just aim the camera down without a target and it'll cast at your feet.

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Comparing healing output without context isn't a good idea. Fights usually have an ebb and flow to them so having spikes of healing available and sustain is very important. However there's more to it, application and reapplication of boons needs to be taken into account as well as damage mitigation for the group. There's a reason guardians and now firebrands are so prominent, they can not only heal and cleanse but apply and reapply important boons like stability and stunbreak for allies.

    Then there's the elephant in the room, when you're fighting vs 20+ you're either taking a boat load of damage (too much to really outheal) or you're taking very little damage because you're properly dodging the bombs.

    Also one of the best heals for you is actually winning the rally war, for this I find having a few weavers/rev properly making sure the downs die quickly can be invaluable but that won't show in any combat log.

    I stand with Mo.

  • messiah.1908messiah.1908 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @apharma.3741 said:
    Comparing healing output without context isn't a good idea. Fights usually have an ebb and flow to them so having spikes of healing available and sustain is very important. However there's more to it, application and reapplication of boons needs to be taken into account as well as damage mitigation for the group. There's a reason guardians and now firebrands are so prominent, they can not only heal and cleanse but apply and reapply important boons like stability and stunbreak for allies.

    Then there's the elephant in the room, when you're fighting vs 20+ you're either taking a boat load of damage (too much to really outheal) or you're taking very little damage because you're properly dodging the bombs.

    Also one of the best heals for you is actually winning the rally war, for this I find having a few weavers/rev properly making sure the downs die quickly can be invaluable but that won't show in any combat log.

    i agree. FB are good for stability and stun break and not for their main heal abilities which is low compare to other classes. boons application as regen and protection department belong to herald along side with sustain and burst heal. but again the context here is the easiness to pull the heal off (as tablet needs to move)
    while scrapper has great abilities to cleanse but boons comes from cleanse and cannot be controlled while have super speed. and ele is doing comeback with aura share and sustain healing.
    if your team is weak your FB wont be able to outheal the group. than you'll need rev or scrapper with you to sustain the group.
    if your team is small compare to enemies again you will need better sustain and burst heal. so taking another FB or REV . the answer is rev as fb wont add much to the group if already you have 1 in each team.

    but again looking the support class without context can make an easy job to identify the easy class to play (rev) , the best class which heal, cleanse, support etc..

  • @messiah.1908 said:
    how you manage to cleanse them every second?

    altruism rune will draw 1 condition of 5 people in a 600 radius around you to yourself when using your elite skill.
    packing and stowing the mortar kit each triggers this rune. and That is on a 1s CD. Furthermore the rune also triggers comeback cure for regeneration on those 5 and purity of purpose for applying boons. By keeping the elite button pressed you can indefinitely trigger the rune every 5s, but also basically get 5 times the conditions as usually.
    I'm still a fan of this since it improves the boon output, works nicely against zerg-wide soft-CC and reduces the cleanses needed in the zerg.

  • messiah.1908messiah.1908 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dediggefedde.4961 said:

    @messiah.1908 said:
    how you manage to cleanse them every second?

    altruism rune will draw 1 condition of 5 people in a 600 radius around you to yourself when using your elite skill.
    packing and stowing the mortar kit each triggers this rune. and That is on a 1s CD. Furthermore the rune also triggers comeback cure for regeneration on those 5 and purity of purpose for applying boons. By keeping the elite button pressed you can indefinitely trigger the rune every 5s, but also basically get 5 times the conditions as usually.
    I'm still a fan of this since it improves the boon output, works nicely against zerg-wide soft-CC and reduces the cleanses needed in the zerg.

    i mean how do you manage to cleanse the condition off you once draw them from allies...

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @messiah.1908 said:

    @Dediggefedde.4961 said:

    @messiah.1908 said:
    how you manage to cleanse them every second?

    altruism rune will draw 1 condition of 5 people in a 600 radius around you to yourself when using your elite skill.
    packing and stowing the mortar kit each triggers this rune. and That is on a 1s CD. Furthermore the rune also triggers comeback cure for regeneration on those 5 and purity of purpose for applying boons. By keeping the elite button pressed you can indefinitely trigger the rune every 5s, but also basically get 5 times the conditions as usually.
    I'm still a fan of this since it improves the boon output, works nicely against zerg-wide soft-CC and reduces the cleanses needed in the zerg.

    i mean how do you manage to cleanse the condition off you once draw them from allies...

    ... All your condi cleanse which you have a ton of? Plus you got enough heals to sustain it until time out most of the time.

  • Dediggefedde.4961Dediggefedde.4961 Member ✭✭
    edited November 30, 2018

    @messiah.1908 said:
    i mean how do you manage to cleanse the condition off you once draw them from allies...

    Depends on the amount of conditions.
    Since you get a sample of whats floating around, you can differentiate between someone getting sniped (few conditions, high stacks), the zerg receiving a condi bomb (high stacks many conditions) and just some stray conditions (chilling fog, cripple from ac/hunter-bow).
    For few conditions I try to bear with them, since I can catch up with superspeed. If it becomes too much, I use Elixir-Gun-5 or a light-blast-finisher. If someone get's sniped, I identify the ally via squad-monitor, take a second to see if the damage is done by conditions or direct hits, use Elixir-Gun-3 in the former or Medikit-2 in the latter case. If we are bombed, I ready myself to distribute all condi clears at the critical positions and don't bother too much about my own condition removal, since it's taken care of by the way. If you go low, F1 will also remove a condition. With F5, EG-4 and Medikit-5 you should also have enough blast finisher to utilize light-fields.
    And if you manage to get all of your cleanse and blast skills are on cooldown while being at middle HP just before the enemy bombs you, you should simply stop using this skill for some seconds. It's not like you are forced to draw conditions to yourself.

    And if all fails, there is usually a guard in my group, so I can save a bit of cleanses with resistance or their cleanses.
    By the way: since you draw the conditions to yourself, your and other groups requires less cleanses overall, which will make it more likely for you to get hit by their cleanses.

    However, I guess one also needs to stay pretty calm using this rune. It's amazing how little damage 40 stacks of bleeding or 20 stacks of agony can do, if your healing is running and the source is not condi-specced. So, take a moment (1-2s) to analyze the effect of the conditions and only react immediately to poison (you're the healer), and movement impeding conditions (to increase group movement).

  • @Dediggefedde.4961 said:

    @messiah.1908 said:
    how you manage to cleanse them every second?

    altruism rune will draw 1 condition of 5 people in a 600 radius around you to yourself when using your elite skill.
    packing and stowing the mortar kit each triggers this rune. and That is on a 1s CD. Furthermore the rune also triggers comeback cure for regeneration on those 5 and purity of purpose for applying boons. By keeping the elite button pressed you can indefinitely trigger the rune every 5s, but also basically get 5 times the conditions as usually.
    I'm still a fan of this since it improves the boon output, works nicely against zerg-wide soft-CC and reduces the cleanses needed in the zerg.

    wow lol pretty cool man.

  • messiah.1908messiah.1908 Member ✭✭✭✭

    i try out the aura share ele . came with nice moments of 4-6k hps in average. dmg reduction of 10% with frost aura, protection another 10% dmg reduction, reflect and daze with auras. nice utilities which can be good from small to medium group.

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