Why dont people buy expansions? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Why dont people buy expansions?

I have played most of the big name MMOs going back to my Ultima Online days in the late 90s. So why is this literally like the only game where people just dont buy expansions? I have even seen some absurd forum posts accusing the game of being pay2win since most Elite Specs are stronger than their Cores.

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Comments

  • Dabrixmgp.4758Dabrixmgp.4758 Member ✭✭
    edited November 25, 2018

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Dabrixmgp.4758 said:
    So why is this literally like the only game where people just dont buy expansions?

    How do you know people don't buy the expansions?

    proly the obvious signs like the fact metabattle takes the time to make guides for core builds? Or when people request core builds and state they dont own any expansions. Or when I join HP trains in HoT and people arent using mounts. Or leveling new alts and seeing other people leveling but they dont use mounts.

  • I was unaware that 'literally everyone' that played/plays other games bought every expansion.
    I've only bought every expansion for Guild Wars and Guild Wars 2.
    I'm odd.

  • Ashen.2907Ashen.2907 Member ✭✭✭✭

    This is not the only game where some dont buy the expansions.

  • Abelisk.4527Abelisk.4527 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 25, 2018

    Go into PVP and nearly everyone uses an elite spec

    There are people who are core (core Guard/Thief) but most of these have bought expansions--it's just those core builds are very strong at the moment.

  • RabbitUp.8294RabbitUp.8294 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dabrixmgp.4758 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Dabrixmgp.4758 said:
    So why is this literally like the only game where people just dont buy expansions?

    How do you know people don't buy the expansions?

    proly the obvious signs like the fact metabattle takes the time to make guides for core builds? Or when people request core builds and state they dont own any expansions. Or when I join HP trains in HoT and people arent using mounts. Or leveling new alts and seeing other people leveling but they dont use mounts.

    Some people have f2p accounts, since the limitations are pretty lax. You can reach max level and play all non-expansion content, so it makes sense that there's some demand for core build guides. Also, before PoF, some people who did own HoT chose to play core builds if they disliked the one elite spec their class got, or if that spec had worse dps than core (e.g. druid). There are also returning players who might choose to not make another purchase before catching up with older content.

    But I do think you are severely underestimating the number of people who own both expansions.

  • Danikat.8537Danikat.8537 Member ✭✭✭✭

    If I was buying GW2 today the only reason I'd get the expansions right away is because it's hard to find the core game on it's own and it's roughly the same price (the core game might even be more expensive right now, since there's a sale going on). If I'm buying a game I want to play all of it in order, not skip to the latest bit, so it would be weeks or months before I'd be on to expansion content, and if I have the option I'd prefer to space the purchases out and not buy more of the game until I know I'm actually going to play it enough to want extra content...unless of course it's cheaper to get it all together.

    And this is definitely not the only game where people don't all buy the expansions as they're released. I see much the same things on the Elder Scrolls Online forum...not helped by the fact that a year after releasing their first expansion and making a huge fuss about how it wasn't DLC and therefore couldn't possibly be included in the subscription (which gives access to all the DLC) they released a second expansion and 'downgraded' the first to DLC...so now a lot of subscribers have concluded that if they simply wait a year they'll get the expansions without paying more than they already are.

    It used to happen in GW1 and in Ultima Online too - people would ask for advice on the best place to find something or level a skill and get sent to an expansion map, then say they didn't have it. I started playing UO not long after the first expansion was released and that map was always noticeably emptier than the main one, even in busy areas.

    Some games do make it quite impractical to keep playing without the latest expansion, and I've heard that there's some MMOs where you literally can't log in without it, although no one's ever named an example, but even though so far I've always pre-purchased GW2 expansions I much prefer feeling like it's my choice whether I get them or not.

    Danielle Aurorel - Desolation EU. Mini Collector.

    "I know that I'm born and I know that I'll die, the in-between is mine."

  • Odinens.5920Odinens.5920 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dabrixmgp.4758 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Dabrixmgp.4758 said:
    So why is this literally like the only game where people just dont buy expansions?

    How do you know people don't buy the expansions?

    proly the obvious signs like the fact metabattle takes the time to make guides for core builds? Or when people request core builds and state they dont own any expansions. Or when I join HP trains in HoT and people arent using mounts. Or leveling new alts and seeing other people leveling but they dont use mounts.

    Why does not having a mount for HoT HP trains or leveling have to mean you don't have the expansions? Maybe some do but choose not to use them. After all you didn't have them prior to PoF anyway. In fact, the really good commanders don't even require mounts for those trains.

    My alt account is a f2p account and has no mounts or gliding. Doesn't mean I don't have the expansions. I do, just on my main account. And if it's a new player leveling without mounts have you considered that maybe people don't want to go out of order, as far as story goes, to get mounts just to "make leveling easier?" If I just started playing the game I wouldn't even bother buying the expansions until I had a toon ready to move onto them, and then it'd be in order, which means no mounts til I actually got to PoF.

    Sorry, but I think you're just assuming too much.

  • Dante.1763Dante.1763 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dabrixmgp.4758 said:
    I have played most of the big name MMOs going back to my Ultima Online days in the late 90s. So why is this literally like the only game where people just dont buy expansions? I have even seen some absurd forum posts accusing the game of being pay2win since most Elite Specs are stronger than their Cores.

    Well to be honest elite specs are stronger than their core, despite anet Stating they didnt want them to be. They wanted them to be alternate ways to play. In some cases its the only way to play because the core class got nerfed to make the elite spec seem more attractive, so if you are using a broad definition of pay to win i agree with that.

    Amana Silentchild; My Main
    Ember Wandertooth; The Kingslayer, Kianda Redpaw; The Blazing Light
    Why GW is Called Guildwars

  • @Dante.1763 said:

    @Dabrixmgp.4758 said:
    I have played most of the big name MMOs going back to my Ultima Online days in the late 90s. So why is this literally like the only game where people just dont buy expansions? I have even seen some absurd forum posts accusing the game of being pay2win since most Elite Specs are stronger than their Cores.

    Well to be honest elite specs are stronger than their core, despite anet Stating they didnt want them to be. They wanted them to be alternate ways to play. In some cases its the only way to play because the core class got nerfed to make the elite spec seem more attractive, so if you are using a broad definition of pay to win i agree with that.

    its a biit hard choice to call it a pay to win as all you need to do is buy the expacs if you need them..and thats it

    That is not how i would personally define p2w, at all and believe me, I have seen some insane p2w mmo business sytem before.

  • Dante.1763Dante.1763 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @TatsuyaHiroki.7412 said:

    @Dante.1763 said:

    @Dabrixmgp.4758 said:
    I have played most of the big name MMOs going back to my Ultima Online days in the late 90s. So why is this literally like the only game where people just dont buy expansions? I have even seen some absurd forum posts accusing the game of being pay2win since most Elite Specs are stronger than their Cores.

    Well to be honest elite specs are stronger than their core, despite anet Stating they didnt want them to be. They wanted them to be alternate ways to play. In some cases its the only way to play because the core class got nerfed to make the elite spec seem more attractive, so if you are using a broad definition of pay to win i agree with that.

    its a biit hard choice to call it a pay to win as all you need to do is buy the expacs if you need them..and thats it

    That is not how i would personally define p2w, at all and believe me, I have seen some insane p2w mmo business sytem before.

    Hence why i said "Broad Definition of Pay to Win". I played WoT for years, got really good at it, im familiar with P2W too. GW2 does not have it. But making things in the expansions stronger than the base game despite stating they arent supposed to be, well, i can understand peoples frustrations.

    Amana Silentchild; My Main
    Ember Wandertooth; The Kingslayer, Kianda Redpaw; The Blazing Light
    Why GW is Called Guildwars

  • Dabrixmgp.4758 said: "Or when I join HP trains in HoT and people arent using mounts."
    Mostly, I don't use Mounts in HOT due to the tangled nature of the Jungle.

  • @Dabrixmgp.4758 said:
    I have played most of the big name MMOs going back to my Ultima Online days in the late 90s. So why is this literally like the only game where people just dont buy expansions? I have even seen some absurd forum posts accusing the game of being pay2win since most Elite Specs are stronger than their Cores.

    Whatever gave you that impression? Seems like PoF sold about as well as HoT? Personally I dropped GW2 after HoT for a multitude of reasons but it seems that just about every other player that didn't share my views went right on to PoF?
    Sure, I did not buy the latest expansion because I did not enjoy HoT (loathed it) and therefore no longer play GW2. But most of the people here enjoy the current incarnation of GW2 so they keep supporting the game, buy the expansions and gems on top of that - I don't understand your the point of your post?
    Guild Wars 2 is quite successful!
    (And yes. while I left GW2, I am still happy that so many ppl enjoy GW2 and I wish them all kind of success - Keeps my original GW running :))

  • zinkz.7045zinkz.7045 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 25, 2018

    @Dibdabs.3410 said:
    God, I detest it when people trot out the word "literally" when they have no real point in using it other than emphasis. It makes me just ignore the rest of the post.

    A bit like when there is no real point to using 'God' in a sentence. ;)

  • @Dabrixmgp.4758 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Dabrixmgp.4758 said:
    So why is this literally like the only game where people just dont buy expansions?

    How do you know people don't buy the expansions?

    proly the obvious signs like the fact metabattle takes the time to make guides for core builds? Or when people request core builds and state they dont own any expansions. Or when I join HP trains in HoT and people arent using mounts. Or leveling new alts and seeing other people leveling but they dont use mounts.

    Wait, what? Literally no one is buying expansions, but you're playing in HoT with people that don't summon mounts. Maybe I haven't had enough coffee yet, but isn't that impossible? I mean, last I checked, HoT is an expansion, right?

  • ReaverKane.7598ReaverKane.7598 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dabrixmgp.4758 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Dabrixmgp.4758 said:
    So why is this literally like the only game where people just dont buy expansions?

    How do you know people don't buy the expansions?

    proly the obvious signs like the fact metabattle takes the time to make guides for core builds? Or when people request core builds and state they dont own any expansions. Or when I join HP trains in HoT and people arent using mounts. Or leveling new alts and seeing other people leveling but they dont use mounts.

    1) The game DOES advertise itself as F2P.
    2) Core builds weren't actually meant to be replaced by elite specs. That's just the result of bad balance and their need to pump them up to sell the expansions.
    3) Mounts are only available on PoF, so people with expansions, like HoT won't have them, and yet still have an expansion.
    4) A lot of people bought the core game on the back of a nebulous promise that the game would progress through living world, without expansions. When that changed, a lot of people didn't think the game was worth the price of the expansions (HoT was sold at full game price).
    5) So far, even with living world, PoF hasn't been worth it's purchase imo.
    6) Most people actually DO buy the expansions. What you see is that also a lot of people finish the core game before doing that.

  • Blocki.4931Blocki.4931 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 25, 2018

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:

    @Dabrixmgp.4758 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Dabrixmgp.4758 said:
    So why is this literally like the only game where people just dont buy expansions?

    How do you know people don't buy the expansions?

    proly the obvious signs like the fact metabattle takes the time to make guides for core builds? Or when people request core builds and state they dont own any expansions. Or when I join HP trains in HoT and people arent using mounts. Or leveling new alts and seeing other people leveling but they dont use mounts.

    1) The game DOES advertise itself as F2P.
    2) Core builds weren't actually meant to be replaced by elite specs. That's just the result of bad balance and their need to pump them up to sell the expansions.
    3) Mounts are only available on PoF, so people with expansions, like HoT won't have them, and yet still have an expansion.
    4) A lot of people bought the core game on the back of a nebulous promise that the game would progress through living world, without expansions. When that changed, a lot of people didn't think the game was worth the price of the expansions (HoT was sold at full game price).
    5) So far, even with living world, PoF hasn't been worth it's purchase imo.
    6) Most people actually DO buy the expansions. What you see is that also a lot of people finish the core game before doing that.

    Mind elaborating why you don't think PoF is worth it? In terms of content it has HoT easily beat. In quality it is very high up there. It's not even full price, so would you consider HoT worth the price (when it came out?) now?)

    @Dabrixmgp.4758 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Dabrixmgp.4758 said:
    So why is this literally like the only game where people just dont buy expansions?

    How do you know people don't buy the expansions?

    proly the obvious signs like the fact metabattle takes the time to make guides for core builds? Or when people request core builds and state they dont own any expansions. Or when I join HP trains in HoT and people arent using mounts. Or leveling new alts and seeing other people leveling but they dont use mounts.

    What kind of argument is this? Metabattle isn't some weird entity, players make the guides and if they are good they get rated as good. Some people have started playing recently and want to finish the core game before they buy an expac. Mounts aren't required for anything outside of PoF, so if they want to play that way they can do so too. I don't understand a stance that is absolutely against them, given how much quality we're getting, but they can do whatever they want so ultimately I don't care.

    Very passive aggressively chuckling, because I'm totally not mad on the Internet.

  • Ayakaru.6583Ayakaru.6583 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dabrixmgp.4758 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Dabrixmgp.4758 said:
    So why is this literally like the only game where people just dont buy expansions?

    How do you know people don't buy the expansions?

    proly the obvious signs like the fact metabattle takes the time to make guides for core builds? Or when people request core builds and state they dont own any expansions. Or when I join HP trains in HoT and people arent using mounts. Or leveling new alts and seeing other people leveling but they dont use mounts.

    As for the guides, some core classes are still viable. Not all are upgrades.
    For example, druid is a combative downgrade.
    Reaper will change a necromancer’s shroud, so you have to weigh the utility.
    As for warrior, you’d be stupid not to play berserker. Without headbutt you’re only half a warrior.
    This isn’t like WoW and other common MMOs where an expansion renders the old stuff obsolete.

    Only people missing the expansions will ask for more help, so as their voices echo, they sound numerous. But as one man asks to deal with a no-expac acount, there are a thousand people playing the game and not asking for help.

    As for mounts. Sometimes its groups of new people who have yet to visit PoF, and sometimes people with PoF accomodate to people without mounts. At best people use raptor to engage with the strong CC.

    As for people not using mounts in general, why do you have to? I have plenty of times i dont use mounts when i’m not in a hurry.

    All in all, i think your sense of people not buying expansions is flawed on a founditional argument.
    Thisis only a guess based on experience, but i think about 20% of acounts at best are still core, and maybe shy of 10% everyone has at least PoF or HoT, if not both.

    To defeat the dragons, see the good in them.
    Zhaitan reunites lost ones, primordus creates fertile land, mordremoth spreads the green, and jormag..
    ..jormag? Who's that?

  • ReaverKane.7598ReaverKane.7598 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 25, 2018

    @Blocki.4931 said:

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:

    @Dabrixmgp.4758 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Dabrixmgp.4758 said:
    So why is this literally like the only game where people just dont buy expansions?

    How do you know people don't buy the expansions?

    proly the obvious signs like the fact metabattle takes the time to make guides for core builds? Or when people request core builds and state they dont own any expansions. Or when I join HP trains in HoT and people arent using mounts. Or leveling new alts and seeing other people leveling but they dont use mounts.

    1) The game DOES advertise itself as F2P.
    2) Core builds weren't actually meant to be replaced by elite specs. That's just the result of bad balance and their need to pump them up to sell the expansions.
    3) Mounts are only available on PoF, so people with expansions, like HoT won't have them, and yet still have an expansion.
    4) A lot of people bought the core game on the back of a nebulous promise that the game would progress through living world, without expansions. When that changed, a lot of people didn't think the game was worth the price of the expansions (HoT was sold at full game price).
    5) So far, even with living world, PoF hasn't been worth it's purchase imo.
    6) Most people actually DO buy the expansions. What you see is that also a lot of people finish the core game before doing that.

    Mind elaborating why you don't think PoF is worth it? In terms of content it has HoT easily beat. In quality it is very high up there. It's not even full price, so would you consider HoT worth the price (when it came out?) now?)

    Easily beat? In what terms?
    Define content... If you define content by map area, maybe, by playtime, it's nowhere near HoT. By fun, not even close...
    While HoT has it's faults, and higher dificulty, it has enough engaging content to be fun.
    PoF has cookie cutter events, on quite bland maps (with a few exceptions), no decent, and definitely no rewarding Meta events, unlike HoT they didn't do a decent rewards pass after the fact, which was one of the redeeming qualities for HoT.
    Merchants and the unique items behind them are ridiculously overpriced compared to Living World maps prior and after PoF.
    No jumping puzzles to mention, the few mini-dungeons it has are either meh or simply broken (like the sand portal one where you jump into the portal but don't get transported, so you end up cheesing your way out).
    The subsequent Living World releases have been largely hit or miss (with miss being the stand out).

    HoT was very overpriced when it came out, but it redeemed itself largely over time, with a lot of it's flaws getting reworked. PoF had no such redeeming features, and for as fun as mounts are, they aren't the whole game and if PoF had come out at the same price as HoT i wouldn't have bought it. I think they realized their mistake as well, and lowered the price for a reason.

    What do you mean PoF isn't full-price? As an expansion it's more than full price, there's even full PC games released at that price. Name one expansion outside Activision Blizzard's World of Cash cows that costs 39€ or more for PC.
    Not even mentioning people, like me, that buy games at deluxe prices, but that's my choice.
    Other people wouldn't. Half the (very) active players in my guild quit because they didn't agree with HoT's price at release. Wanted to wait for a discount (which happened like 3-6 months later), but by the time it came out discounted they had already moved on, and most never returned.
    Also, personally, outside the living world, the whole game dropped immensely in quality post HoT. Idk if it was Colin and other talent leaving the team, the weird "cookie cutter" standards they established and kept even when it clearly doesn't work (like the irredeemable balance cadence, that even after they sped it up is woefully slow, especially given the tiny, and many times misguided changes we see eve after those wait periods).
    So yeah, even though i've bought each expansion (twice) at deluxe prices, AND core, i can't fault anyone else for not choosing to do so.
    In fact, if the current state and direction of the game is kept, i don't think i'll buy the next expansion, unless its sold for like 10 bucks or less. I mean 10€ i can afford to "throw away" on a risky premiss, but not 40, definitely not 70-100€, which were the prices i spent on each purchase so far (twice).

    Also answering the OP again...
    I took a quick look at GW2 Efficiency. Flawed as it might be, it's none the less a good sample of the game's population, and according to the site, of the people registered there, 77% have BOTH expansions. 1% are Free to Play.
    Even if you stretch this by a long mile, you'll probably end up at most with 5-10% F2P players that are active, and not just "checking out" the game for a weekend.
    https://gw2efficiency.com/account/player-statistics

  • It may seem that way but thats only because many of us have many alt accounts. I have 5, 3 are core 1 is HoT and my main has all 3. I would probably make my 3 core into HoT if it ever goes 50% off. I dont see any value in PoF as an alt that i would barely be playing.

  • I'm not following the OP's reasoning at all. I very rarely come across a level 80 that doesn't have Mastery levels (and thus expansions). Sub-80s could be new players and aren't fair to judge until they decide whether they want to continue with the game or not.

  • Arden.7480Arden.7480 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Any official statement you have that people don't buy expansions?

    The wound is the place where the Light enters you ~Stephane Lo Presti

  • jbrother.1340jbrother.1340 Member ✭✭✭

    @zinkz.7045 said:

    @Dibdabs.3410 said:
    God, I detest it when people trot out the word "literally" when they have no real point in using it other than emphasis. It makes me just ignore the rest of the post.

    A bit like when there is no real point to using 'God' in a sentence. ;)

    Not sure how anyone's "god" plays into it but the poster is right.

    Sort of the same as people over using the word literally :)

  • jbrother.1340jbrother.1340 Member ✭✭✭

    @Arden.7480 said:
    Any official statement you have that people don't buy expansions?

    The addition of one more word to the statement and we would not get to mince all this up like meat...

    "some" people...

  • Danikat.8537Danikat.8537 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:
    Also answering the OP again...
    I took a quick look at GW2 Efficiency. Flawed as it might be, it's none the less a good sample of the game's population, and according to the site, of the people registered there, 77% have BOTH expansions. 1% are Free to Play.
    Even if you stretch this by a long mile, you'll probably end up at most with 5-10% F2P players that are active, and not just "checking out" the game for a weekend.
    https://gw2efficiency.com/account/player-statistics

    The problem with using GW2 Efficiency as a source for things like this is it's going to have a much higher proportion of 'high end'/hardcore/long-term players than the game itself. The people who sign up to GW2 Efficiency are people who a) know it exists (already excluding a lot of new and casual players) b) want to use it's services, or show off what they've achieved and see how they compare to other players. There's no point doing that unless you've been playing for a while and you're working on 'end game' goals like legendaries or playing the TP regularly.

    Not to mention second accounts. I've thought about signing up sometimes on my main GW2 account and it never even occurred to me to sign up my second account because I don't have any use for it.

    Of course I don't know exactly how that affects the statistics, but I don't think it can be considered representative of the game as a whole when you're looking at things like number of free accounts and number of people who own expansions.

    Danielle Aurorel - Desolation EU. Mini Collector.

    "I know that I'm born and I know that I'll die, the in-between is mine."

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'm purely a PvP sorta player, I only bought expansions to keep up with Elite specs.
    Expansions from point of view ARE pay to win as the ONLY reason to buy expansion was to have an Elite spec.

    Definition of Elite being: a select group that is superior in terms of ability or qualities to the rest of a group.
    By all accounts, it's pay to win. That is if you use the English Dictionary, if you run off some other language it may differ.

    Not only is it in the wording "elite specs" but it also matches the definition by being superior in terms of abilities and qualities.

    I play other games that have expansions, for example Railroad Empire, those are true expansions, they have added content and don't make your trains run on less fuel, less maintenance nor do they rake in more money or give benefits to my account over others who didn't purchase the expansion.

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion.
    06210311 251521 121512

  • Core gamer here.

    Both xpacs didn't meet my expectations, so i stayed in core-Tyria

    Plain and simple, still playing with 2 Accounts and 17 chars

  • Dante.1763Dante.1763 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 26, 2018

    @sephiroth.4217 said:
    I'm purely a PvP sorta player, I only bought expansions to keep up with Elite specs.
    Expansions from point of view ARE pay to win as the ONLY reason to buy expansion was to have an Elite spec.

    Definition of Elite being: a select group that is superior in terms of ability or qualities to the rest of a group.
    By all accounts, it's pay to win. That is if you use the English Dictionary, if you run off some other language it may differ.

    Not only is it in the wording "elite specs" but it also matches the definition by being superior in terms of abilities and qualities.

    I play other games that have expansions, for example Railroad Empire, those are true expansions, they have added content and don't make your trains run on less fuel, less maintenance nor do they rake in more money or give benefits to my account over others who didn't purchase the expansion.

    Elite specs werent MEANT to replace core specs, anet is just terrible at balance and cant follow what they say, your post is correct obviously, but if anet would follow what they say(in this case, elite specs being sidegrades that arent better, but alternatives to a core spec) it wouldnt be.

    Amana Silentchild; My Main
    Ember Wandertooth; The Kingslayer, Kianda Redpaw; The Blazing Light
    Why GW is Called Guildwars

  • My problem with using 3rd party sites is that nobody is required to use them to play. It's sort of like trusting Meta Critic for a game review, or Steam. In the former case, you're not even required to show a registered copy of whatever game you're reviewing, and in the latter case, any game is subject to review bombs if someone's unhappy, check out the original version of Skyrim being review bombed for the creation club, when you can't even use the creation club in that version of Skyrim.

    A 10% margin of error from there to what happens in the game assumes that at least 90% of the population is registered. I'm not, and based on that site, you'd never know I played at all, let alone what expansions, if any, I own. Since only about 15% of an MMO's player base use the forums at all, trying to supplement your numbers from the forums is going to fall way short of getting to that 10% margin of error.

    For myself, I'm just going to run with the irony of the OP claiming in one post that "literally no one buys expansions" and then, in a subsequent post, attempting to support that claim by stating that he "was playing with people in HoT that didn't summon mounts". Let that sink in, and see, how much debate is really needed for this thread's premise.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @Dante.1763 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:
    I'm purely a PvP sorta player, I only bought expansions to keep up with Elite specs.
    Expansions from point of view ARE pay to win as the ONLY reason to buy expansion was to have an Elite spec.

    Definition of Elite being: a select group that is superior in terms of ability or qualities to the rest of a group.
    By all accounts, it's pay to win. That is if you use the English Dictionary, if you run off some other language it may differ.

    Not only is it in the wording "elite specs" but it also matches the definition by being superior in terms of abilities and qualities.

    I play other games that have expansions, for example Railroad Empire, those are true expansions, they have added content and don't make your trains run on less fuel, less maintenance nor do they rake in more money or give benefits to my account over others who didn't purchase the expansion.

    Elite specs werent MEANT to replace core specs, anet is just terrible at balance and cant follow what they say, your post is correct obviously, but if anet would follow what they say(in this case, elite specs being sidegrades that arent better, but alternatives to a core spec) it wouldnt be.

    Hence why it's pay to win from a PvP'r perspective... Those specs are well above core capabilities and no real effort has been made to align the elite specs to it's core counterpart.

    You are comparing apples and oranges. Spvp having no itemization or any type of requirements means there is only 1 iteration of it. Simply put, there is no classic spvp, HoT spvp or PoF spvp. There is only spvp for the current state of the game. Unlike pve where you can actually make such a distinction since the old content is just as accessible as before, more so even now with reworks on core specs.

    Another way to think of it is this:

    • the moment HoT was released, core spvp was removed from the game
    • the moment PoF was released, HoT spvp was removed from the game

    This is similar to all other MMOs and their approach with expansions. Take WoW, every expansion adds x amount of levels. The previous pvp ends the moment a new expansion launches. It is impossible to play pvp without getting the next expansion and leveling up. No one calls that pay-to-win there. The only difference in GW2 is that you are allowed to access the new content without being required to buy the expansion. Maybe it would have been better to bar all non upgraded accounts from spvp and WvW, then this entire pay-to-win discussion would never have existed since you would not have had access to the content, similar as all other MMOs besides GW2.

  • SHM.7628SHM.7628 Member ✭✭
    edited November 26, 2018

    I can only definitively state the reasons I haven't yet. A few years ago I took a break from playing. I didn't like the direction the game was going in. I felt like they watered down the core game (that I paid for) a lot. The Gem store and going F2P are just two examples of this. I didn't feel like rewarding them with another purchase. Despite all this, I don't dislike the core game. It's paid for and I play it. If the core game was F2P from the beginning, I might have felt differently about the expansions and the gem shop.

  • SHM.7628SHM.7628 Member ✭✭

    @Dante.1763 said:

    @Dabrixmgp.4758 said:
    I have played most of the big name MMOs going back to my Ultima Online days in the late 90s. So why is this literally like the only game where people just dont buy expansions? I have even seen some absurd forum posts accusing the game of being pay2win since most Elite Specs are stronger than their Cores.

    Well to be honest elite specs are stronger than their core, despite anet Stating they didnt want them to be. They wanted them to be alternate ways to play. In some cases its the only way to play because the core class got nerfed to make the elite spec seem more attractive, so if you are using a broad definition of pay to win i agree with that.

    Dante, You know why I bought the expansions in GW1? I loved the game and wanted more! "IF" I ever buy the expansions for GW2 it will be for mounts, gliding, and elite specs. I find that problematic and a little sad!

  • Khisanth.2948Khisanth.2948 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dabrixmgp.4758 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Dabrixmgp.4758 said:
    So why is this literally like the only game where people just dont buy expansions?

    How do you know people don't buy the expansions?

    proly the obvious signs like the fact metabattle takes the time to make guides for core builds? Or when people request core builds and state they dont own any expansions. Or when I join HP trains in HoT and people arent using mounts. Or leveling new alts and seeing other people leveling but they dont use mounts.

    That is pretty silly. Metabattle tries to cover builds that work well. That only criteria is that the build needs to work well for its intended purpose.

    Then there is the fact that running around with partially unlocked elite spec and then trying to do hero challenges is not a particularly smart move so it is also useful for that situation.

  • mauried.5608mauried.5608 Member ✭✭✭

    The only thing about expansions I dont like is the use of mastery points to gate content behind.
    Its effectively a defacto way of using mastery points as a form of levels since the game limits you to L80.
    In the original world, mastery points simply made your character a bit better, but didnt stop you from doing any of the content as you could go anywhere regardless of how many mastery points you had.
    In HOT , with the introduction of gliding mastery points then became mandatory to progress in the zone otherwise you were limited in where you could go, and in POF its even worse because far more content is gated behind mastery points, because of the mounts and the need for them to get to many of the locations in the zones.
    Future expansions will simply make this worse.

  • @Dabrixmgp.4758 said:

    proly the obvious signs like the fact metabattle takes the time to make guides for core builds? Or when people request core builds and state they dont own any expansions. Or when I join HP trains in HoT and people arent using mounts. Or leveling new alts and seeing other people leveling but they dont use mounts.

    I don't know the data you use when stating that the people did not buy the expansions. But - regarding the core Tyria detail ans speaking for me only - even if I level my alts in Tyria and doing map completion I don't use mounts in core. I'm one of the persons still believing that the usage of mounts in Tyria is not a good addition for the game and I avoid using them. (or maybe not the dislike to have them in core makes me to do this - maybe because I stop to each and every harvesting node? HM? Maybe this).

  • @Cristalyan.5728 said:

    @Dabrixmgp.4758 said:

    proly the obvious signs like the fact metabattle takes the time to make guides for core builds? Or when people request core builds and state they dont own any expansions. Or when I join HP trains in HoT and people arent using mounts. Or leveling new alts and seeing other people leveling but they dont use mounts.

    I don't know the data you use when stating that the people did not buy the expansions. But - regarding the core Tyria detail ans speaking for me only - even if I level my alts in Tyria and doing map completion I don't use mounts in core. I'm one of the persons still believing that the usage of mounts in Tyria is not a good addition for the game and I avoid using them. (or maybe not the dislike to have them in core makes me to do this - maybe because I stop to each and every harvesting node? HM? Maybe this).

    I know I'm hard pressed to use a mount in core because I do stop at every node, and it gets sort of dizzying...

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I recall seeing some data on this but I cant find it... And if I remember correctly, only a very tiny part had f2p while the vast majority was expansions, with a smaller part still being on vanilla.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • @mauried.5608 said:
    The only thing about expansions I dont like is the use of mastery points to gate content behind.
    Its effectively a defacto way of using mastery points as a form of levels since the game limits you to L80.
    In the original world, mastery points simply made your character a bit better, but didnt stop you from doing any of the content as you could go anywhere regardless of how many mastery points you had.
    In HOT , with the introduction of gliding mastery points then became mandatory to progress in the zone otherwise you were limited in where you could go, and in POF its even worse because far more content is gated behind mastery points, because of the mounts and the need for them to get to many of the locations in the zones.
    Future expansions will simply make this worse.

    You're describing this like there was a progression from Core masteries to HoT masteries. There weren't - the entire mastery system launched with HoT (with some preparatory changes to the game before).

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dabrixmgp.4758 said:
    Or when I join HP trains in HoT and people arent using mounts.

    HP trains are usually for newbies. You can't expect a newbie to already have all content unlocked.

    Also, this:

    @Blanche Neige.7241 said:
    If they are in HoT, they bought an expansion.

    Exactly. Don't know where the OP gets their "data", but I have rarely encountered GW2 players who haven't bought the expansions - except for those free2play accounts who are new and still trying out the game.

  • Eloc Freidon.5692Eloc Freidon.5692 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Some people like playing content in order. That's why when I first played I didn't TOUCH Heart of Thorns until I could afford Living World Season 2. So long I played without masteries despite being level 80. I could have gotten auto loot but for some reason the devs absolutely must spoil new players entire story beats in order for us to get QoL features.

  • I don't buy cause i can't only, i've been playing for almost 2 years, played as f2p for around 1 year and a half, and i think that the core game is on itfelf so vast, and has a lot of content (albeit very easy content), that some people want to "do everything" before getting an expansion, but trust me, a lot of people that are in the "post lvl 80" stuff don't have an expansion cause they can't buy one, not cause they want to "leech" of the f2p version or something.

    What "saved" me for the moment, is that i got lucky in that Kung Fu thing and someone send me a code for the Heroic Edition on Reddit, so even tough i don't have xpack content, i don't have the f2p restrictions anymore and that gave a "breath of fresh air" into the game so to speak hehe, i even bought LWS2 in that promo two days ago, but despite all that i will get an expansion one day (HoT cause i want to do things in order hehe), they are really worth it, and it's not cool feeling like you are "leeching" of the game or something hehe.

    Also, about the "p2w" stuff i don't think it applies to elite specs, bear in mind that elite specs traits still requrires the use of 2 core traits to compliment it, that's why it's kinda hard to "buff core specs to match elites", cause in buffing core traits you can make elite even more powerfull than they already are.

  • Knighthonor.4061Knighthonor.4061 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Get bored of elite Specs and sometimes want to run core since it has more options to pick from (3) compared to elite Specs (2)

  • @Dabrixmgp.4758 said:
    I have played most of the big name MMOs going back to my Ultima Online days in the late 90s. So why is this literally like the only game where people just dont buy expansions? I have even seen some absurd forum posts accusing the game of being pay2win since most Elite Specs are stronger than their Cores.

    When I played heart of thorns almost all elite specs were better than the core ones. I can't say if it's still like that for path of fire. Yes that would then entail it is pay 2 win

  • Biff.5312Biff.5312 Member ✭✭✭✭

    You're talking about two separate issues. People not wanting to play an elite spec isn't always because they don't have the expansion. The argument you refer to is simply that they shouldn't HAVE to, i.e. core builds should be viable. Lots of people don't get the expansions right away but I have no idea how many do or don't buy them eventually, and I doubt anyone else here does either.

  • @RoRo.8270 said:

    @Dabrixmgp.4758 said:
    I have played most of the big name MMOs going back to my Ultima Online days in the late 90s. So why is this literally like the only game where people just dont buy expansions? I have even seen some absurd forum posts accusing the game of being pay2win since most Elite Specs are stronger than their Cores.

    When I played heart of thorns almost all elite specs were better than the core ones. I can't say if it's still like that for path of fire. Yes that would then entail it is pay 2 win

    how is that pay 2 win when its normal game progression to buy an expansion? pay2win is if they started selling ascended gear for gems.

  • LaGranse.8652LaGranse.8652 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 28, 2018

    @Dabrixmgp.4758 said:
    I have played most of the big name MMOs going back to my Ultima Online days in the late 90s. So why is this literally like the only game where people just dont buy expansions? I have even seen some absurd forum posts accusing the game of being pay2win since most Elite Specs are stronger than their Cores.

    There are more people with expansions than you think. The table is from gw2efficiency.com, not sure how they gather the information, I think it is from everyone that uses their API key on the website.

  • keenedge.9675keenedge.9675 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ashantara.8731 said:
    HP trains are usually for newbies. You can't expect a newbie to already have all content unlocked.

    HP trains are most often people with multiple alternate players who want to make quick work of the getting an elite spec. The HoT maps are more difficult to find PUGs for HPs because of the terrain complexities.

    Exactly. Don't know where the OP gets their "data", but I have rarely encountered GW2 players who haven't bought the expansions - except for those free2play accounts who are new and still trying out the game.

    Same here. I have a core Tyria account and an f2p account as well as a full account. I made both after f2p was introduced to better understand the limitations the game places restricted players.

    This thread has the flavor of Reddit with the complaining about a speculative issue and hyperbole to sell the emotion.

    Moral Statute Machine: John Spartan, you are fined five credits for repeated violations of the verbal morality statute.

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