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Why exactly is Virtue of Justice unavoidable?


Shao.7236

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It just stays until it hits. Unlike every other mechanics with charges. Isn't it OP when the guard is pure condition? Whether the whole team gets to be buffed and hit you one by one or altogether. It just plain hurts and impossible to prevent.

Kind of like Zealot Fire, unblockable works, but when it's impossible to evade, you can't really get any close to the guard without getting seriously hurt since the skills last quite a while as the cooldowns are really low.

Probably missing something, but that's why I'm asking.

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@Shao.7236 said:It just stays until it hits. Unlike every other mechanics with charges. Isn't it OP when the guard is pure condition? Whether the whole team gets to be buffed and hit you one by one or altogether. It just plain hurts and impossible to prevent.

Kind of like Zealot Fire, unblockable works, but when it's impossible to evade, you can't really get any close to the guard without getting seriously hurt since the skills last quite a while as the cooldowns are really low.

Probably missing something, but that's why I'm asking.

For a Condi Guard it is generally more profitable not to use Virtue of Justice as its passive effect is his only way to actually apply Condi, no guard weapons except off hand torch apply any Condi and it's utility skills are not enough to cover that alone. So they'd be just lowering their dmg output.I'd be actually quite happy to see Condi Guard use its Virtue of Justice on me because then it's just gg.

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@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@Shao.7236 said:It just plain hurts and impossible to prevent.

You cant cleanse burning? some classes breathe condi cleanse right now.

You're completely missing the point of "I evaded his attack with Virtue Of Justice, why should I still get burned for 5k on the next hit."

@Alatar.7364 said:

@Shao.7236 said:It just stays until it hits. Unlike every other mechanics with charges. Isn't it OP when the guard is pure condition? Whether the whole team gets to be buffed and hit you one by one or altogether. It just plain hurts and impossible to prevent.

Kind of like Zealot Fire, unblockable works, but when it's impossible to evade, you can't really get any close to the guard without getting seriously hurt since the skills last quite a while as the cooldowns are really low.

Probably missing something, but that's why I'm asking.

For a Condi Guard it is generally more profitable not to use Virtue of Justice as its passive effect is his only way to actually apply Condi, no guard weapons except off hand torch apply any Condi and it's utility skills are not enough to cover that alone. So they'd be just lowering their dmg output.I'd be actually quite happy to see Condi Guard use its Virtue of Justice on me because then it's just gg.

This is a game mechanic complain, I'm not breathing down anyone's neck saying that it's OP because the burn hurts but rather that you're FORCED to get burned. It's annoying to deal with those inconsistent shenanigans that Anet don't feature in their tooltips. You try and fight a burn guard that constantly get twice Zealot Flame every 10 seconds at CQC. You can't even get close to them without getting hardcore burned because evades don't work and that's like the only AOE in the game which I know does that. Don't mind that it's unblockable, it says that it is but how come THIS specific skill gets to burn while evading meanwhile something like Flames Of War or ANY AOE's for that fact doesn't do the same and can be avoided?

January 10, 2018

The burning pulse effect of this skill remains unblockable but can now be avoided by using evasion or blinding the attacker. It still HITS evade frames.

Virtue Of Justice will hit regardless of what you do in a fight and that's 5k of free damage, that is the question I have. Why can't it be avoided. Why should I still get burned for an attack that by all mechanics in the game, this specific one should get the exception of staying until it hits. I don't care if it makes the guardian weaker over the long term of the fight or just in general takes away their damage after, why does it have to hit to be gone and why is it not featured in the tooltip itself.

Wasting all my utility to get away from such attack that I'm still gonna get burned with anyway, it makes no sense.

It's quite sad that any talks about any skills in a negative way makes people think that it's all about AAA OP PLS NERF. When the question is all about the mechanic itself and why it gets a freepass on something like that.

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Are you talking about passive or active effect of VoJ? Virtues on core guardian already feel like they didn't age well considering their effect and cooldowns. Burning with each third or fifth attack on a class that isn't condi designated is far from some problem. Thats why most core guardians nowdays use Virtues to get retaliation, condi cleanse and stability, which are traited effects, not the original effects from virtues

I don't know how did you get 5k burning dps from Virtue of Justice since 5k burning dps requires a lot of stacks. I have a feeling you decided not to dodge out of symbol and GS#2 so you basically procced VoJ passive many times

Condi core guardian is far from some monster that you cant get close to. As a matter of fact, his condi application is quite bad and easily avoidable

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@Shao.7236 said:

@Shao.7236 said:It just plain hurts and impossible to prevent.

You cant cleanse burning? some classes breathe condi cleanse right now.

You're completely missing the point of "I evaded his attack with Virtue Of Justice, why should I still get burned for 5k on the next hit."

@Shao.7236 said:It just stays until it hits. Unlike every other mechanics with charges. Isn't it OP when the guard is pure condition? Whether the whole team gets to be buffed and hit you one by one or altogether. It just plain hurts and impossible to prevent.

Kind of like Zealot Fire, unblockable works, but when it's impossible to evade, you can't really get any close to the guard without getting seriously hurt since the skills last quite a while as the cooldowns are really low.

Probably missing something, but that's why I'm asking.

For a Condi Guard it is generally more profitable not to use Virtue of Justice as its passive effect is his only way to actually apply Condi, no guard weapons except off hand torch apply any Condi and it's utility skills are not enough to cover that alone. So they'd be just lowering their dmg output.I'd be actually quite happy to see Condi Guard use its Virtue of Justice on me because then it's just gg.

This is a game mechanic complain, I'm not breathing down anyone's neck saying that it's OP because the burn hurts but rather that you're FORCED to get burned. It's annoying to deal with those inconsistent shenanigans that Anet don't feature in their tooltips. You try and fight a burn guard that constantly get twice Zealot Flame every 10 seconds at CQC. You can't even get close to them without getting hardcore burned because evades don't work and that's like the only AOE in the game which I know does that. Don't mind that it's unblockable, it says that it is but how come THIS specific skill gets to burn while evading meanwhile something like Flames Of War or ANY AOE's for that fact doesn't do the same and can be avoided?

January 10, 2018

The burning pulse effect of this skill remains unblockable but can now be
avoided by using evasion
or blinding the attacker.
It still HITS evade frames.

Virtue Of Justice will hit regardless of what you do in a fight and that's 5k of free damage, that is the question I have. Why can't it be avoided. Why should I still get burned for an attack that by all mechanics in the game, this specific one should get the exception of staying until it hits. I don't care if it makes the guardian weaker over the long term of the fight or just in general takes away their damage after,
why
does it have to hit to be gone and why is it not featured in the tooltip itself.

Wasting all my utility to get away from such attack that I'm still gonna get burned with anyway, it makes no sense.

It's quite sad that any talks about any skills in a negative way makes people think that it's all about
AAA OP PLS NERF
. When the question is all about the mechanic itself and why it gets a freepass on something like that.

I have went through this thread several times and didn't find anyone saying that it's OP or even implying that you think it's OP, and not even anyone saying that you want nerf.Maybe read better or don't ask questions when your intention is to instantly fire back without understanding the answer?

I have said its like that because Guard doesn't have any other way of applying Condis except torch while all other classes have full Condi weapons.

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@"kasoki.5180" said:Are you talking about passive or active effect of VoJ?

Condi core guardian is far from some monster that you cant get close to. As a matter of fact, beyond VoJ his condi application is quite bad and easily avoidable

Active effect, won't go away until you hit something with it. Buffing 3 people would mean that you'd be best getting yourself hit by all 3 at once because otherwise you're gonna get burned 3 times in a row and that's stupid. Why is that a thing? If they miss the first attack, it should just be over with it.

"Avoidable" is questionable when your sustain tools don't even prevent the burns from applying even though they should since that's what "evade" frames are for.

Can't say, "it's just profession mechanic, they counter you!" When the situation is blatantly a bunch of inconsistent exceptions to make that counter happen while in fact I should be the counter to said burn guard because I have evade frames but those apparently don't count for that specific skill or just the plain Virtue Of Justice that will eventually hit me because evading it does nothing.

@Alatar.7364 said:

@Shao.7236 said:It just plain hurts and impossible to prevent.

You cant cleanse burning? some classes breathe condi cleanse right now.

You're completely missing the point of "I evaded his attack with Virtue Of Justice, why should I still get burned for 5k on the next hit."

@Shao.7236 said:It just stays until it hits. Unlike every other mechanics with charges. Isn't it OP when the guard is pure condition? Whether the whole team gets to be buffed and hit you one by one or altogether. It just plain hurts and impossible to prevent.

Kind of like Zealot Fire, unblockable works, but when it's impossible to evade, you can't really get any close to the guard without getting seriously hurt since the skills last quite a while as the cooldowns are really low.

Probably missing something, but that's why I'm asking.

For a Condi Guard it is generally more profitable not to use Virtue of Justice as its passive effect is his only way to actually apply Condi, no guard weapons except off hand torch apply any Condi and it's utility skills are not enough to cover that alone. So they'd be just lowering their dmg output.I'd be actually quite happy to see Condi Guard use its Virtue of Justice on me because then it's just gg.

This is a game mechanic complain, I'm not breathing down anyone's neck saying that it's OP because the burn hurts but rather that you're FORCED to get burned. It's annoying to deal with those inconsistent shenanigans that Anet don't feature in their tooltips. You try and fight a burn guard that constantly get twice Zealot Flame every 10 seconds at CQC. You can't even get close to them without getting hardcore burned because evades don't work and that's like the only AOE in the game which I know does that. Don't mind that it's unblockable, it says that it is but how come THIS specific skill gets to burn while evading meanwhile something like Flames Of War or ANY AOE's for that fact doesn't do the same and can be avoided?

January 10, 2018

The burning pulse effect of this skill remains unblockable but can now be
avoided by using evasion
or blinding the attacker.
It still HITS evade frames.

Virtue Of Justice will hit regardless of what you do in a fight and that's 5k of free damage, that is the question I have. Why can't it be avoided. Why should I still get burned for an attack that by all mechanics in the game, this specific one should get the exception of staying until it hits. I don't care if it makes the guardian weaker over the long term of the fight or just in general takes away their damage after,
why
does it have to hit to be gone and why is it not featured in the tooltip itself.

Wasting all my utility to get away from such attack that I'm still gonna get burned with anyway, it makes no sense.

It's quite sad that any talks about any skills in a negative way makes people think that it's all about
AAA OP PLS NERF
. When the question is all about the mechanic itself and why it gets a freepass on something like that.

I have went through this thread several times and didn't find anyone saying that it's OP or even implying that you think it's OP, and not even anyone saying that you want nerf.Maybe read better or don't ask questions when your intention is to instantly fire back without understanding the answer?

I have said its like that because Guard doesn't have any other way of applying Condis except torch while all other classes have full Condi weapons.

Went too broad with the statement, I'm still shook from how stupidly one sided the past argument I had went, my point still remains though. Not OP, just stupid and cheesy to have an attack that's completely unavoidable. Actually sounds like poor design to let exceptions go past like this, 17 CD isn't that long while having some condition damage is already strong since burn scales well with it, being a pure burn is a big flip flop fight with a skill that you're forced to take and if despite avoiding it with an evade, you have no cleanse left, you're forced to die.

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Because aplication of one stack of burning that can easily fail would be dumbest profession mechanic in the game. It wouldn't be worth of taking it as utility slot, let alone a F1 skill that has respectable cooldown. Its a meh skill that does marginal effect and most players activate it for reasons other than its original effect (burning). I would agree with you if this was a weapon skill or utility skill. I would agree if core guard could spam virtues the way mesmer can spam shatters. But It can't. Every 17-20 seconds I can apply one stack of burning. If there were friends within 600 range of me when I activated it they can also. On a profession build that is not designed to be a condi build.This is far from a problematic skill in this game.

If you are fighting guardian you are more likely to get more damage from retaliation than from VoJ active effect

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Incendiary Powder is a similar mechanic. Chill of Death as well. You literally can't avoid them, only deal with them once they happen. Factor in retaliation, and you have a baseline of passive damage coming in.

These mechanics are in place to counter strategies revolving around high levels of avoidance.

I think it's acceptable for a small baseline DPS of un-evadable hits to exist for less mobile classes like Guard/Engi/Necro, even a positive balance check for Thief/Mes.

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@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@Chaith.8256 said:I think it's acceptable for a small baseline DPS of un-evadable hits to exist for less mobile classes like Guard/Engi/Necro, even a positive balance check for Thief/Mes.

Agreed on this point, give or take engie because I wouldn't call that exactly low mobility.Guard. Necro, Condi Rev maybe.

Incendiary Powder is Condi Engi though.

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@Chaith.8256 said:

@Chaith.8256 said:I think it's acceptable for a small baseline DPS of un-evadable hits to exist for less mobile classes like Guard/Engi/Necro, even a positive balance check for Thief/Mes.

Agreed on this point, give or take engie because I wouldn't call that exactly low mobility.Guard. Necro, Condi Rev maybe.

Incendiary Powder is Condi Engi though.

oh god rip

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