Introduction: The goal here is mainly to try some out of the box idea and weave them into an e-spec. I apologize in advance if this feel messy.

Name: SpiritualistA specialisation that call vengeful spirits upon their foes to torment them (NB.: I say torment but it's unrelated to the condition)

Special mechanisms:Dodge: The necromancer's "dodge" is replaced by the ghost shroud which reduce all incoming damage taken by 50% for 3 seconds when you "dodge". Note that it doesn't impair the necromancer's ability to deal damage (just like the mirage cloak gained from the shards).

F skills: spirit skills

• F1: Haunt: Mark a single foe, using another F skill will trigger Shrd#1 traits effects on the haunted foe.
• F2: Ghost step: Teleport behind your target. CD 5s. Cost 1935 LF.
• F3: Ghastly wail: Fear (1s) foes around you. The haunted foe is is affected by an echo of this skill 1 second later. CD 15s. Cost 2487 LF.
• F4: Ghostmirror light: Emit a blinding (2s) ghastly light that deal damage and drain endurance from foes around you. The haunted foe is is affected by an echo of this skill 1 second later. CD 20s. Cost 3685 LF.
• F5: Withering aura: Gain barrier, for 6 seconds foes around you are weakened (1s) and slowed (1s) every seconds. The haunted foe is is affected by an echo of this skill effects 1 second later (for each tic). 7 tics, CD 20s. Cost 4606 LF.

Utilities: GhostsNB.: Ghosts are minions with a set lifespan and a common active skill. Ghosts are also tied to the targeted foe which mean they will disappear if the foe die just like clones. Ghost stay in a range of 900 from their foe.

• Bloodsong: Heal yourself by x and summon a ghost that periodically apply regeneration. Last 10s. CD 20s.
• Anguish: Summon a ghost that will apply vulnerability (8s) with each attack. Attack range 900, clone level of damage. Last 10s. CD 20s.
• Lamentation: Summon a ghost that will draw on him conditions from allies in range every 3 seconds. Last 10s. CD 30s.
• Dissonnance: Summon a ghost that will apply slow (2s) with each attack. Attack range 900, clone level of damage. Last 10s. CD 20s.
• Pain: Summon a ghost that will deal damage (scale with summoner's stats) with each attack. Attack range 900. Last 10s. CD 20s.
• Shadowsong: Summon a ghost that will blind (2s) with each attack. Attack range 900, clone level of damage. Last 10s. CD 45s.

Common active skill: Spirit transfer: Transfer the damage of the next attack received onto the ghost. The ghost will be destroyed whatever the value of damage transfered. Yes, a block necro style!

Weapon: Off-hand axe.

• 4: Mark of fury: Apply vulnerability x5 (8s), weakness (3s) and grant fury (4s) to allies in range when triggered. CD 15s.

• 5: Barb: Inflict confusion x2 (3s) and grant retaliation (3s) to allies in range when triggered. CD 20s.

Traits:Minors:

• Fleeting ghost: Gain ghost shroud when you dodge. Ghost and Spirit skills become available.
• Gaze of contempt: Feared foes are weaken (2s)
• Atrophy: Gain endurance (2) and health (37) whenever you apply weakness.

Upper traitline:

• Feast of souls: Drain life from foes around you whenever you leave the ghost shroud.
• Haunted marks: Marks linger after being triggered, applying their effect a second time after 1s (weapon trait).
• Offering of spirit: Gain barrier (778) and endurance (20) whenever a ghost die due to spirit transfer.

Middle traitline:

• Rotting flesh: Inflict weakness (1s) whenever you are stuck while in ghost shroud. ICD 1s.
• Demonic flesh: Weakness no longer reduce endurance regen. Gain toughness (180) when under the effect of weakness.
• Tainted flesh: Entering ghost shroud apply weakness on you. You have increased condition damage (180) when you are under the effect of weakness.

Lower traitline:

• Rigor mortis: Reduce haunted foe movement speed by 50%.
• Gaze from beyond: While in ghost shroud you have blind immunity.
• Ghostly haste: Ghost step is now a ground targeted skill. Increase ghost step range from 750 to 1200.

Is this scourge meets mirage with a hint of deadeye?

Its not good enough to be either one though. Your concept of ghost and spiritual play is nice though and I would like to see something more ghostly themed but sticking to the execution of this is set up to doom any necromancer who dares to use it.

First and for most:At first glance I'm assuming, because of how its written, that you are trading damage avoidance for damage mitigation (A very dangerous game) and thats not a benefit its a handicap to the user in almost ALL situations. Even though the damage reduction last for 3 seconds you are now an still fairly immobile target that cant avoid damage or critical attacks at all. We know what 50% damage reduction feels like simply use core shroud and let some one burst burst your life force bar and see just how fast it goes away. You compare this mechanic to mirage cloak without consider that unlike mirage cloak this mechanic cant avoid things like cc (and you have included no stability in this kit whatsoever), as I mentioned mirage cloak is damage avoidance which is far more valuable than damage mitigation. I would consider making your ghost shroud mechanic down right equal to mirage cloak possibly with the damage reduction triggering after the evade frames for a shorter duration after all necro still wont distracting clones or have a massive array of break targeting skills and something like Jaunt to dance around in a battle.

Second:I cant tell what you really want this to be. Dps, Support, a non boon style tank, or even just nothing of the sort in some kind of middle ground. You have a skill that marks a target But only traits work with them unless you mean the ghost can only be attached to person you mark which adds whole new level of complexity from my perspective for what really seems like no reason.

This brings me to the AI of the ghost. IF they can be killed by just aoe damage they simply wont work outside of pve. Some of them seem supportive which confuses me a bit because they have 0 offensive action (where is the tormenting in that? All of them need to do something offensive) The whole damage transfer thing simply cant be based on 1 attack in a game where almost every professions burst hits you several times a second over the course of a few seconds. You referenced mesmer clones here, I would suggest just making them pretty much what mesmer clones/phants are. They pop up > Do something strong > go away after. Give the ghost skills multiple charges and increased effects on your target marked with the F1.

The axe:I like that you put a mark here. I fee like we should have seen marks spread throughout necromancers weapon sets instead of having them all under the staff . I can approve of this idea greatly. The 5th skills is a hot mess though in identity (remove that confusion and retaliation) Not only is it too little we have none of it in any other place of necromancers kit. (Its and axe) Remove the supportive portion for something offensive.

The traits:Not bad... not bad at all actually I do like the majority of these traits. I feel like they have an identity more so than most of the other parts of the elite setup. (if you look past some of my other critical feed back) They do feel ghostly and appropriate for necromancer generally

Things i dont like:You traded the only true bit of damage and crowd control avoidance for damage mitigation (this one is a big NO for me)Its trying to be alot of things at once... I see Deadeye, Scourge, and Mirage bits when I look at this.Its still too far off from core necromancer for me to see it as an extension instead its almost like its own profession (kind of like scourge)I don't like scourge format and (f) skill layout and I sadly never will. I don't like plastering all the skills under f1 -f5 just make it 1 or 2 (f) buttons with all the skills under that (you can do this without a full form transform that loses utility (Holosmith is proof)Risk that AI makes this about as good as Renegade in any player vs player setting (pve only elite spec)

Things i do like:Its not as far off as scourge is but its still pretty far from being closer to something that could grow from core necroThe traits have some very strong potential if the core kit can be cleaned up in a revision with critical feedback taken into consideration.You dont see many people suggest off hand Axe for necro.

Overall not the worst concept ive seen but it does need some help possibly a change in how some of this stuff would be executed could make it work very well. (you likely just didn't think that through too much and more so just wanted to get the idea out in the open.)

Last thoughtsIf by some chance the dodge mechanic actually still "evades" attacks then you can dismiss my pounding on the subject of damage avoidance vs damage mitigation. The way its written though imply that you simply would no long evade attacks at first thought. ( because you mentioned that it does not impair actions but never specifically mention the word "Evade" )

@"ZDragon.3046"Dodge: You read it right it's really a trade of damage avoidance for damage mitigation. That said, the utility skills with spirit transfer introduce some damage "avoidance" to compensate this point. I might not have been clear enough when describing spirit transfer.

What it's meant to be: It's intended to be a "dodge" spec just like daredevil, mirage or even weaver (I could even add the core warrior spec strength due to MMR). I think it does have a lot of potential for condi bursts on single target. That said, I don't think it would lack in power damage either if properly built.

The ghosts: First, the supportive one. You are right, they stand out, the healing one was intended to poison it's foe with it's attack but I couldn't bring myself to add poison to the spec. The cleansing one could probably take a condition on an ally and transfer it to it's foe with each attack, I didn't really think about it thoroughly. As for the way they are, they are primarily there to be expendable living blocks, they are more fit for dueling or small scale battle than large scale battle. I understand that their design can be cringy but I think it fill what I intend them to do.

Increasing the ghost damage on a haunted foe might be a good idea thought, I didn't thought things as far as that.

Axe: I mainly inspire myself from bloodmark for the 2 skills. In reality, It's all intended to be used with the weapon trait for a decent effect. It's not specified but axe mark deal power damage as well, just like staff marks. I could have given boon corruption or boon ripping to the 5th mark but I'm kinda fed up of this effect right now so I opted for something more in line with etheral fields: confusion. I agree it's not perfect, thought.

Traits: Glad you like them, that said I'm personnally not satisfied with the middle and lower traitline. Gaze of beyond feel especially weak/useless in my opinion.

What I forgot to take into account: I realized that I totally forgot that there is traits that trigger when entering shroud and that entering shroud with each dodge might make them OP. How unholy sanctuary should work with the spec is also beyond me. Just this 2 points alone show that I didn't polish the idea/concept thoroughly enough.

You dont see many people suggest off hand Axe for necro.

I'm sure I'm not the only one, I think there is 1 or 2 other alongside me that want it :)

This spec is a bit all over the place in design and damage reduction instead of a dodge is an absolutely terrible trade off. Bad enough that it actually would be worth avoiding the spec entirely simply for that reason. A few issues I see with it at face value. First the F skills seem a bit underwhelming for how much effort you need to commit into using them especially since you have no real means of escape. You also don't have a shroud. Sure the dodge is supposed to be a shroud but the trait combinations would be even less synergistic than it is on scourge.

Dodging as an elite spec mechanic identity really only works on classes with quite a hit of endurance regen in their core, which necro does not have. This would be stand alone rather than complementary to core necromancer traits. Now If you did want to go this route with the spec you'd be better off designing a unique shroud that, for example, doesn't provide you with extra health or damage reduction but rather while in it your dodge changes to a special action called something like ghostly blink, teleporting a short distance and evading attacks but rather than costing endurance while in shroud it costs life force. And design the shroud out of this hyper mobility. That's one idea.

Going along with that the skills are problematic in their design. They're minions but not minions? If you want dodge to be the focus those skills should be designed around the idea of movement and complimentary to this idea.

Now if you wanted to go the other route and focus on your ghosts it's better to distinguish them from minions and not act as a replacement for minions. I'd say supportive allies like gyros. You have one support and it seems pretty potent. If you went with support your utility should focus more on that ideal and the life force skills should also complement the idea of support or at least control.

As for the traits I do commend you for keeping with the necromancer's theme of always having a condition focus. And it does fit with your theme with dodging. Deprive your foe of endurance regen while dodging yourself. With that said, necromancer's weakness application has been nerfed heavily over the years and if this spec got a proper dodge that would be a point of contention.

As for lore, there is absolutely no reason the necromancer couldn't summon spirits. In fact they already do. Necromancer taking the titles of ritualist and shaman in the history of gw1. Especially the title of shaman which Is a title they frequently share with ritualist.

Overall, I'm not really a fan of the idea. I think you need to pull back the focus a bit more and really fine tune your ideas to make it more of a specialization as opposed to a hodgepodge mix of conflicting ideas. I do believe you could really make something interesting as you have some unique ideas. For me, personally it's not what I'm looking for in necromancer. But I'm fairly set on a couple of specific things I want for the necromancer. A minion master spec focused on minion bombing and zerg down game play. A Shaman(ritualist) focused on supportive spirits, healing and general party aid. And a Vampiric spec focused on hyper offense and offensive support. These really are the three I see that are needed. Your spec seems to be trying to all 3 of those things. Which as I said you could make something cool. You just need to pick a focus.

Don't take anything I said the wrong way. Creating elite specs is fun. And speculation on how it could work is great. Giving my feedback which you're welcome to take with a grain of salt. I mean, I'm not a game designer.

@"Lily.1935"Overall, I'm fine with most of your critic because it's how I expected that the idea would be received. However, I disagree with one point:

You also don't have a shroud. Sure the dodge is supposed to be a shroud but the trait combinations would be even less synergistic than it is on scourge.

The shroud on dodge allow great uptime for the trait that grant bonus while in shroud: Signet of suffering, Armored shroud, deathly strength, shrouded removal, unholy sanctuary regen, vampiric presence and death perception

With how often you'll be able to go in and out of shroud, there is also great synergy with: awaken the pain, spiteful spirit, furious demise, plague sending, weakening shroud, beyond the veil, life from death, unholy martyr, speed of shadow and foot in the grave.

Only 3 shroud traits are "weaken" by the spec and it's arguable: reaper might, unyielding blast and dhuumfire.

If anything this spec synergize way more with shroud traits than even core and reaper.

NB.: The concept of the necromancer don't lean toward movement and avoidance, that's why I chose this design of mitigation that, I think, have great synergy with Death magic to reduce damage to a minima. It's certainly not perfect and it's most likely an idea that will be lost in the flow of time but, I think that as a "dodge" spec this is the design that fit the necromancer underlying design the most.

Edit: On the topic of weakness, the spec grant quite a lot of outgoing weakness I think. The weapon trait make the combo chillblain/putrid mark a lot more potent, the necromancer's natural ability to fear and thus apply weakness is also increased. CPC, enfeebling blood and signet of spite are still possible choices. And might can still be corrupted into weakness even if the necromancer can't corrupt as easily as he used to. It might not be warrior level of might generation but it's still pretty easy to access.

We already have an E-Spec with spirits - Renegade. Ritualist has more thematic similarities with Rev than Necro anyway so if they decide to draw any more inspiration from it for future specializations it will be for Revenant.Appreciate the effort tho.

@Elric.4713 said:We already have an E-Spec with spirits - Renegade. Ritualist has more thematic similarities with Rev than Necro anyway so if they decide to draw any more inspiration from it for future specializations it will be for Revenant.Appreciate the effort tho.

No it doesn't. Revenants are warriors not dancers first of all. Second of all ritualists are literally necromancers by definition.

@Lily.1935 said:

@Elric.4713 said:We already have an E-Spec with spirits - Renegade. Ritualist has more thematic similarities with Rev than Necro anyway so if they decide to draw any more inspiration from it for future specializations it will be for Revenant.Appreciate the effort tho.

Revenant is Ritualist rebranded for the second game as they needed a third heavy profession and of course with that in mind the gameplay would change ( as it did with many other professions e.g. Mesmer). With that in mind, saying the Revenant is a warrior is as much true as saying Mesmer is one as well for having access to swords, shield, axe and even greatsword.What I think of when saying that is shares more similarities with Rit is heavily drawing it's power from the Mists, channeling Legends (Canthan heroes in Rit's case), closing eyes in combat and wearing blindfolds and having the third eye icon that was also used for the Ritualist. Oh and we get to summon spirits as well with Renegade specialization, not in the same capacity that Ritualist does but more in line with the gameplay of the second game.

Before this goes astray and become a "which profession is closest to the ritualist?" thread, I'd like to precise that revenant deal with sentient spirits while this e-spec don't deal with sentient spirits but ghost or specter which would be more remnant of negative emotions. This e-spec's minions are closer to mesmer's and there is neither channeling nor communing involved here.

@Dadnir.5038 said:@"Lily.1935"Overall, I'm fine with most of your critic because it's how I expected that the idea would be received. However, I disagree with one point:

You also don't have a shroud. Sure the dodge is supposed to be a shroud but the trait combinations would be even less synergistic than it is on scourge.

I like this idea a lot for the new spec to revolve around maximising the enter/exit shroud traits.

This was something that we lost with the Scourge spec reducing their effectiveness due to the high CD and the change in the SoS trait nerfing its effectiveness on both Reaper and core Necro as well.

Being able to synergize effectively with these enter/exit shroud traits can give rise to very fun and flexible builds. It was part of the reason why I loved the old SoS trait that reduced shroud CD to 7 seconds as being able to trigger these exit/enter shroud traits more reliably on-demand made us so much more dangerous and unpredictable.

Oh and thought I should add that I found the ghost spec idea you have very innovative and seems really fun to play. I'm not sure if we will have enough survivability with it but if you mean our HP bar is replaced by ghost shroud for 3 seconds when we dodge, and that we have access to the ghost shroud skills at all times like the Scourge, then yes I like that idea a lot. I would like that we get 3 dodge bars though like the daredevil, on top of your endurance granting minor trait. Also maybe work more ways to generate the life force for the ghost shroud into the utilities or traits would be nice.

@"EremiteAngel.9765" said:Oh and thought I should add that I found the ghost spec idea you have very innovative and seems really fun to play. I'm not sure if we will have enough survivability with it but if you mean our HP bar is replaced by ghost shroud for 3 seconds when we dodge, and that we have access to the ghost shroud skills at all times like the Scourge, then yes I like that idea a lot. I would like that we get 3 dodge bars though like the daredevil, on top of your endurance granting minor trait. Also maybe work more ways to generate the life force for the ghost shroud into the utilities or traits would be nice.

The point is that there is no 2nd hp bar, I know that it's difficult to bear but the damage "avoidance" is supposed to be taken care by the utilities "flip" skills. You got it right for the "ghost" skills always available whether you are or aren't in shroud state.

The trade off is huge I totally agree with this point but like you've pointed out there is also huge benefit with the shroud up time/ frequency of enter/exit that synergize a lot with core traits.

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@"EremiteAngel.9765" said:Oh and thought I should add that I found the ghost spec idea you have very innovative and seems really fun to play. I'm not sure if we will have enough survivability with it but if you mean our HP bar is replaced by ghost shroud for 3 seconds when we dodge, and that we have access to the ghost shroud skills at all times like the Scourge, then yes I like that idea a lot. I would like that we get 3 dodge bars though like the daredevil, on top of your endurance granting minor trait. Also maybe work more ways to generate the life force for the ghost shroud into the utilities or traits would be nice.

Ah I see. Personally I think that's going to be a bit tough then unless the flip skill did more than just prevent one attack. Also I would like to have more flexible choices for the utilities and not feel forced to pick the ghost skills in order to survive without a second Hp bar.

Too OP, next.

@Tseison.4659 said:Too OP, next.It's good that you bumped a two-year-old thread to inform us.

I even forgot that I wrote this one, awesome!