Gemstore and Belgium. An all in one pack? Tell your opinion about that here! — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Gemstore and Belgium. An all in one pack? Tell your opinion about that here!

Valaraukar.7652Valaraukar.7652 Member ✭✭
edited December 5, 2018 in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Edit: What do you think about an all in one pack about mount! Tell your opinion! Its can help to evolve things.

Hello.

I open this discussion because and hope maybe to have a answers of the official team (maybe) or having your opinion and opinion from people from Belgium.

Because of the rules, some item can't be acceded to people from Belgium. (BlackLion key, or item using the hazard/luck/chance). In my opinion, it's not a bad thing even if i haven't buy one of this item in the past.

But i would like to put in evidence something who should be REALLY ameliorate.

It's the adoption licence.

For an mount licence that you want to choose (Select License), it's cost 1200 gem.
And for the Adoption License, it's cost 400 gem.

The select licence is useful if you don't want spend maybe for the 15 appareance of the mount 5100 Gem. You choose one and it's cost you 1200 and you are happy.
But if you want to have all the appareance in Belgium, you need to buy 15 the select licence and for that you need to spend 18000 Gem.

18000 gem versus 5100 for the 15 adoption licence (and so having all the appareances mounts).

Why not making a licence to the price of 15 adoption licence in belgium too? Or at least, letting the possibily to buy the 15 adoption licence, because with buying this pack you get all the apparences and you aren't anymore using the hazard in that case.

Thank you for your answers.

(sorry for my mystake, french is my first)

Comments

  • Dante.1763Dante.1763 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Danikat.8537 said:
    When the first mount licence came out there was a pack available which gave you all of them together. I think it would be a good idea to do the same for the newer licences - not just for people from Belgium but for anyone who wants to buy them all together.

    That would be neat actually!

    Ember Wandertooth(SB), Lucina Fallenflame(Weaver), Kianda Redpaw(Guardian), Kingslayer, Light in the Dark.
    Why Guild Wars is called Guild Wars

  • Well i don't know for the first mount licence. I was at the beginning of gw 2 but i leave the world of mmo one month or two latter. 6 years later, I decide to come back in gw 2 in June/july.

    But there is something to do definitively for these adoption.

  • Palador.2170Palador.2170 Member ✭✭✭

    @Valaraukar.7652 said:

    Why not making a licence to the price of 15 adoption licence in belgium too? Or at least, letting the possibily to buy the 15 adoption licence, because with buying this pack you get all the apparences and you aren't anymore using the hazard in that case.

    The set has 15 skins in it, so with 15 "random" adoptions you can get them all. For most of us, there's an option in the store to do just that, and it cost less than buying one 15 times. However, even if you'd get all of them, it may not be legal to sell the pack of 15 random adoptions in Belgium.

    What they COULD do, however, is to sell a set of 15 of the selectable adoptions for the same price as what most people pay for the 15 random. The end result is the same, and it would bypass the legal problems nicely.

    Lip synching is just mime karaoke.

  • Valaraukar.7652Valaraukar.7652 Member ✭✭
    edited November 29, 2018

    that's what i say. (but was better explain in the other subjet removed).

    But i'm not sure that it's not legal to sell the pack of 15 random adoption in Belgium because, they aren't anymore "random" because we get all and we haven't duplicate mount.

    So to resume

    For Global Player:

    • 1 Random licence mount: 400 Gem
    • 15 Random licence mount: 5100 Gem (and having so the all 15 apparence mount)
    • 1 selected licence mount: 1200 Gem

    ---> So for Glabal Player, they can have all their appearance mount for 5100 gem (or more or less depend of some pack maybe)

    For Belgian Player

    • 1 Selected licence mount: 1200

    ---> So for Belgian player, they can have all their appearance mount for 18000 GEM (+-200 euros)

    My solutions:

    1) Easy way: Letting the possibility to buy the full pack of random because in the final, they aren't nothing random at the end.
    2) Making a different licence to have all the appearance mount. Exemple: "1 Full licence of desert appareance mount" (more boring if limited to one land only)

    Edit: i contacted the support directly to speak about this problem for Belgian player

  • Valaraukar.7652Valaraukar.7652 Member ✭✭
    edited December 5, 2018

    Hello, i come back to give you an final answers recieve from a gm.

    Can belgian player use a vpn to buy these product who is in normal time blocked for us?

    The answers:

    Merci de votre patience,
    Je voudrais vous informer que nous ne conseillons a aucun joueur de contourner la loi.
    Je peux pas répondre a votre question car nous n`en savons rien.

    In english and to resume
    (thank for your patience. They don't recommand us to bypass the law. They can't answers to my question because they don't know about that).

    I finish the discussion with telling them to hope to get an all in one pack about the mount.

    Edit 2: I recieve an final message too:

    Merci pour votre retour. Nous vous prions de mener ce debat au forum afin que vous ayez beaucoup plus d'audience sur la question. Merci encore une fois.
    Regards,

    In english Thank you for your return. We invite you to lead this debate to the forum so that you have a lot more audience on the issue. Thanks again.

    To resume: if you think that is a good idea to have an all in one pack, tell it here^^

  • @Valaraukar.7652 said:
    Hello, i come back to give you an final answers recieve from a gm.

    (remainder snipped for brevity, but it was interesting to see)

    I would back the final conclusion: a single pack that grants all X (in this case 15) skins at once without using the random generator would seem like a good way to resolve the issue. It is self-evidently completely deterministic with no random element at all, and therefore avoids all smell of gambling.

    @Biff.5312 said:
    Exercise your whimsy.

  • Danikat.8537Danikat.8537 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I think that would be a good idea too. I've noticed the newer licences do offer the opportunity to buy 15 random licences together - which technically isn't random since you're guaranteed to get a new mount skin each time so that guarantees you will get all of them. I'm not sure why that wasn't available when I bought the Istani Isles mounts but if it was I would have gotten it, if only because it would have saved a lot of clicking.

    So one options is to make that pack available to Belgians, on the understanding that although each individual licence is random the pack you've bought is not. But if that's not allowed then create an item which gives all 15 skins in one go so there is absolutely no random aspect to it.

    (And please offer whatever solution is created to the rest of us too as it would be useful.)

    "You can run like a river, Till you end up in the sea,
    And you run till night is black, And keep on going in your dreams,
    And you know all the long while, It's the journey that you seek,
    It's the miles of moving forward, With the wind beneath your wings."

  • yes that's exactly that. I still don't understand why the 15 random licence can't be bought by belgian because as people say, it's not random anymore. Even if it's not random, belgian can't buy it (it's really strange).
    Why instead of this 15 licence pack, not macking a all in one pack. Like that all people can buy it and no more clicking usuless too.
    An all in one pack is usefull for everyone and not only for belgian in my opinion.

  • Healix.5819Healix.5819 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Valaraukar.7652 said:
    The answers:

    Merci de votre patience,
    Je voudrais vous informer que nous ne conseillons a aucun joueur de contourner la loi.
    Je peux pas répondre a votre question car nous n`en savons rien.

    In english and to resume
    (thank for your patience. They don't recommand us to bypass the law. They can't answers to my question because they don't know about that).

    I finish the discussion with telling them to hope to get an all in one pack about the mount.
    _
    So to resume, don't use a vpn to bypass the block._

    They cannot tell you it's okay because that would be admitting that they are knowingly selling the items illegally in Belgium. Without telling you to do it, they can't be held responsible for your own actions.

  • Yes of course. Officially it's normal to say that indeed. As i say, i don't think that they ban all player who use vpn to play gw 2. (example russia who don't allow gw 2)
    But the risk isn't null.

    So it's for this reason, it's will be more easy an all in one. And i think that they aren't maybe against that and it's for that, that they tell me to talk about this AIO in forum to see the audience about that.

  • Since the Devs (ArenaNet) suggests one use a VPN in many circumstances, using one is not problematic, nor would cause account action(s).
    If a Belgium player had a problem with certain purchases, though, I'd expect the CS Team would not be able to offer assistance.

  • Dante.1763Dante.1763 Member ✭✭✭✭

    So..i found this out myself, depending on your VPN you cant purchase from the gemstore. Mine doesnt allow purchases.

    Ember Wandertooth(SB), Lucina Fallenflame(Weaver), Kianda Redpaw(Guardian), Kingslayer, Light in the Dark.
    Why Guild Wars is called Guild Wars

  • @Dante.1763 said:
    So..i found this out myself, depending on your VPN you cant purchase from the gemstore. Mine doesnt allow purchases.

    Lots of subscription or public VPNs give you some choice in the location of the 'primary' server. (Corporate and private ones largely do not.)
    In other words, you should have some influence in this. (theoretically anyhow)

    "With great power comes not-so-great utility bills."

  • Dante.1763Dante.1763 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    @Dante.1763 said:
    So..i found this out myself, depending on your VPN you cant purchase from the gemstore. Mine doesnt allow purchases.

    Lots of subscription or public VPNs give you some choice in the location of the 'primary' server. (Corporate and private ones largely do not.)
    In other words, you should have some influence in this. (theoretically anyhow)

    Saddly its the actual VPN that blocks the service. Im using one thats in the US(I am too), and if i have the VPN active i cannot make purchase from the Black lion Company(also amazon doesnt want to load everytime). Still worth having one overall though.

    Ember Wandertooth(SB), Lucina Fallenflame(Weaver), Kianda Redpaw(Guardian), Kingslayer, Light in the Dark.
    Why Guild Wars is called Guild Wars

  • I have one question about the all-in-one pack:
    How would a pack with all mount skins work if you already own a bunch of them from when it wasn't illegal to purchase them in Belgium?
    I'm in this situation myself and I imagine there are others as well. But I would not be willing to drop 5100 gems for a pack that has mount skins in it I already own.

    I have two suggestions, but I'm unsure about their feasibility:
    1) The 400 gem license (for belgians) no longer gives you a random mount skin but gives you mount skins in a predefined order. So for example, the first time you buy the license you get raptor#1, the second time you get springer#1, then skimmer#1, etc etc. This isn't gambling as there's no random element and you know exactly what you're buying. This solves the issue for belgian people who want to own them all but don't want to pay 3x as much for that as other people. People who just want a few specific mount skins can still opt for the mount-select license.
    Additionally it could skip over mounts you already own. I also personally find it more reasonable to purchase them one by one over time than to spend 5100 gems (which is a lot!) in one sitting. Given that Guild Wars keeps track of your gemstore purchase history it may be possible to implement something like this, but I'm not a software developer so I don't actually know.

    2) Set an age-limit on the "gambly" parts of the gem-store for belgians. The Belgian Gaming Comission has stated they implemented this law mainly to protect minors, so it stands to reason that everyone who is not a minor should not suffer. I'm unsure about the exact legal statements of this law and if this would indeed be a solution though. I am also unsure in how far Guild Wars 2 would be able to track age in a legally satisfying way.

    I'm personally very frustrated with the restriction on mount licenses because after going through most of the content my joy in playing Guild Wars 2 is to rack up about 120g, exchange it for 400 gems and then buy a mount license. I really love the mounts and the mount license skins, I think they're beautiful and I like fitting them to different characters. In the future this law willl most likely also affect other countries in the EU, so I hope we can find a solution to the problem that's preferable over no mount licenses.

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arana.2851 said:
    I have one question about the all-in-one pack:
    How would a pack with all mount skins work if you already own a bunch of them from when it wasn't illegal to purchase them in Belgium?
    I'm in this situation myself and I imagine there are others as well. But I would not be willing to drop 5100 gems for a pack that has mount skins in it I already own.

    I have two suggestions, but I'm unsure about their feasibility:
    1) The 400 gem license (for belgians) no longer gives you a random mount skin but gives you mount skins in a predefined order. So for example, the first time you buy the license you get raptor#1, the second time you get springer#1, then skimmer#1, etc etc. This isn't gambling as there's no random element and you know exactly what you're buying. This solves the issue for belgian people who want to own them all but don't want to pay 3x as much for that as other people. People who just want a few specific mount skins can still opt for the mount-select license.
    Additionally it could skip over mounts you already own. I also personally find it more reasonable to purchase them one by one over time than to spend 5100 gems (which is a lot!) in one sitting. Given that Guild Wars keeps track of your gemstore purchase history it may be possible to implement something like this, but I'm not a software developer so I don't actually know.

    2) Set an age-limit on the "gambly" parts of the gem-store for belgians. The Belgian Gaming Comission has stated they implemented this law mainly to protect minors, so it stands to reason that everyone who is not a minor should not suffer. I'm unsure about the exact legal statements of this law and if this would indeed be a solution though. I am also unsure in how far Guild Wars 2 would be able to track age in a legally satisfying way.

    I'm personally very frustrated with the restriction on mount licenses because after going through most of the content my joy in playing Guild Wars 2 is to rack up about 120g, exchange it for 400 gems and then buy a mount license. I really love the mounts and the mount license skins, I think they're beautiful and I like fitting them to different characters. In the future this law willl most likely also affect other countries in the EU, so I hope we can find a solution to the problem that's preferable over no mount licenses.

    Since they can detect what living story episodes you have when you buy a complete pack.
    Shouldent they be able to do the same for mounts and refund gems for that anmunt aswell then?

  • @Linken.6345 said:

    @Arana.2851 said:
    I have one question about the all-in-one pack:
    How would a pack with all mount skins work if you already own a bunch of them from when it wasn't illegal to purchase them in Belgium?
    I'm in this situation myself and I imagine there are others as well. But I would not be willing to drop 5100 gems for a pack that has mount skins in it I already own.

    I have two suggestions, but I'm unsure about their feasibility:
    1) The 400 gem license (for belgians) no longer gives you a random mount skin but gives you mount skins in a predefined order. So for example, the first time you buy the license you get raptor#1, the second time you get springer#1, then skimmer#1, etc etc. This isn't gambling as there's no random element and you know exactly what you're buying. This solves the issue for belgian people who want to own them all but don't want to pay 3x as much for that as other people. People who just want a few specific mount skins can still opt for the mount-select license.
    Additionally it could skip over mounts you already own. I also personally find it more reasonable to purchase them one by one over time than to spend 5100 gems (which is a lot!) in one sitting. Given that Guild Wars keeps track of your gemstore purchase history it may be possible to implement something like this, but I'm not a software developer so I don't actually know.

    2) Set an age-limit on the "gambly" parts of the gem-store for belgians. The Belgian Gaming Comission has stated they implemented this law mainly to protect minors, so it stands to reason that everyone who is not a minor should not suffer. I'm unsure about the exact legal statements of this law and if this would indeed be a solution though. I am also unsure in how far Guild Wars 2 would be able to track age in a legally satisfying way.

    I'm personally very frustrated with the restriction on mount licenses because after going through most of the content my joy in playing Guild Wars 2 is to rack up about 120g, exchange it for 400 gems and then buy a mount license. I really love the mounts and the mount license skins, I think they're beautiful and I like fitting them to different characters. In the future this law willl most likely also affect other countries in the EU, so I hope we can find a solution to the problem that's preferable over no mount licenses.

    Since they can detect what living story episodes you have when you buy a complete pack.
    Shouldent they be able to do the same for mounts and refund gems for that anmunt aswell then?

    Reimbursing players for mount skins they already have would be a solution, but it is still a bit awkward to save up over 5000 gems to then be refunded 4000, for example.
    Ideally it would calculate the price based on the number of skins you have, but that might be tricky...
    Don't get me wrong, an all-in-one pack (with reimbursment) is vastly preferable over no mount skins, but I just wanted to highlight the issue that some players already own skins and offer some other suggestions to the discussion.

  • @Arana.2851 said:
    Additionally it could skip over mounts you already own.

    The existing random licenses do skip over mounts you already own. That's why it's slightly strange that a 15-draw pack for a 15-skin set is barred in Belgium. Such a pack unconditionally gives access to all fifteen skins, although the order you get them in is random. I suspect that it's because the 15-draw pack is 15 of a barred item, which is why a "get all with one click and no random draws" pack seems like a good idea.

    @Linken.6345 said:
    Since they can detect what living story episodes you have when you buy a complete pack.
    Shouldent they be able to do the same for mounts and refund gems for that anmunt aswell then?

    I would expect that they could do exactly that, for the (unusual) case of someone who buys a small number while not in Belgium, then moves to Belgium and can only buy the "get them all" pack.

    @Biff.5312 said:
    Exercise your whimsy.

  • But, Living Story Bundles, among other bundles/packs calculate the price based on what items/content you already have. It's not like you have to pay full price, and then are refunded.

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Steve The Cynic.3217 said:

    @Arana.2851 said:
    Additionally it could skip over mounts you already own.

    The existing random licenses do skip over mounts you already own. That's why it's slightly strange that a 15-draw pack for a 15-skin set is barred in Belgium. Such a pack unconditionally gives access to all fifteen skins, although the order you get them in is random. I suspect that it's because the 15-draw pack is 15 of a barred item, which is why a "get all with one click and no random draws" pack seems like a good idea.

    @Linken.6345 said:
    Since they can detect what living story episodes you have when you buy a complete pack.
    Shouldent they be able to do the same for mounts and refund gems for that anmunt aswell then?

    I would expect that they could do exactly that, for the (unusual) case of someone who buys a small number while not in Belgium, then moves to Belgium and can only buy the "get them all" pack.

    Sadly belgium players cant even buy the get them all pack.
    They have to buy 1200 one 15 times at this moment.

  • @Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:
    But, Living Story Bundles, among other bundles/packs calculate the price based on what items/content you already have. It's not like you have to pay full price, and then are refunded.

    In that case an all-in-one pack of mount skins would be an acceptable alternative for me. Just hope it gets resolved one way or another.

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