LFR - some kind of compromise

Hello everybody,so Guild Wars 1 and 2 are my main games ever. I have been playing them since kid, but now time have past and many off people like me are full growth ppl with real-life obligations.

Are there any plans to make a LFR tool for PUGs ? - (some kind of automatic matchmaking tool) - basically sth like LFR in WoW.

I was playing many raids in the past myself, but know I don’t have time to organize groups and tactics. I even manage to get 1 set of legendary armor

Getting a group is getting huge chunk of time - more than direct raid gameplay itself - either forming a group or do it with Your guild at scheduled time.I believe there should be some kind of LFR tool with easy mode for semi-casual like me, who just don’t have time anymore because of many obligations. Ofcourse with much less loot - for example 1 LI per full wing, not for each boss. I think it would satisfy casuals and hardcore gamers.

I know that best raiding players/guild are tired of raids because after doing dozens of them, they are so good at them that it is just a chore for them now - and its making even greater argument to make raids which are still so huge and so cool part of the content open to other players. I my opinion everybody would be happy.

In current state of the game doing raids would consume all time I have to play during the common week and I know there are dozens of ppl in a situation like me.

I know raids aren’t obligatory, but its just making me sad and leaving me with a feeling that I loose so much time, just to organize and make tactics right - specially in pugs Oo.So in the end I understand both groups: casual players and regular raiding players… but should be some kind of compromise for both those groups?

Looking forward to Your reply guys.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/18677/do-raids-need-easy-normal-hard-difficulty-mode-merged/p1

100+ pages discussing an easy mode for Raids. No need to start a new 100-page thread.

sorry. it just bugs me :D - was wondering is there any official dev response to this topic

What benefit(s) would LFR have over LFG? The only difference that I see is that LFR removes the option to choose your group.

Are there enough players that are willing to play with a completely random group of players? Why couldn’t they just use the LFG with an advertisement that everyone is welcome?

How will certain roles be enforced such as DPS, tank, and healer?

benefits LFR with easy mode? Your Time. LFG better rewardsWhy there can't be both LFR and LFG? What's wrong that you have 2 options rather than 1? You can always choose. So for hardocre raiders nothing changes or devs can make it even harder/better rewards.

@"Dioskur.1743" said:sorry. it just bugs me :D - was wondering is there any official dev response to this topic

There is:https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/113984/#Comment_113984

@Dioskur.1743 said:benefits LFR with easy mode? Your Time. LFG better rewardsWhy there can't be both LFR and LFG? What's wrong that you have 2 options rather than 1? You can always choose. So for hardocre raiders nothing changes or devs can make it even harder/better rewards.

Oh. I missed the part that you had mentioned an easy mode on top of LFR. Anet has already addressed that there will not be an easy mode multiple times.

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@"Dioskur.1743" said:sorry. it just bugs me :D - was wondering is there any official dev response to this topic

thank You very much :)

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Dioskur.1743 said:benefits LFR with easy mode? Your Time. LFG better rewardsWhy there can't be both LFR and LFG? What's wrong that you have 2 options rather than 1? You can always choose. So for hardocre raiders nothing changes or devs can make it even harder/better rewards.

tanks as well :) but that makes me sad :(

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@"Dioskur.1743" said:benefits LFR with easy mode? Your Time. LFG better rewardsWhy there can't be both LFR and LFG? What's wrong that you have 2 options rather than 1? You can always choose. So for hardocre raiders nothing changes or devs can make it even harder/better rewards.

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@"Dioskur.1743" said:benefits LFR with easy mode? Your Time. LFG better rewardsWhy there can't be both LFR and LFG? What's wrong that you have 2 options rather than 1? You can always choose. So for hardocre raiders nothing changes or devs can make it even harder/better rewards.

Pretty much everything is on the table. Regardless as to whether their response was definitive or not, it doesn’t change that they already have addressed the issue multiple times. Additional threads are very unlikely to get a different response. My guess is that we wouldn’t find out until the teaser for the release it would be contained in.

I just hoped for those 2 raids modes. Gw2 way always the best mmo if you think about respecting players time.Once You have common raid squad and know tactics raids are getting faster and easier each time but still... why not made easy mode and current mode even harder if players really want it (for extra reward) and yes they want it. We all know that there are many players who strongly believe that current raids are to easy - and I understand it because they are if you have good team and experience.

Still easy mode LFR raids could come with huge realize gap. Like make only 1 wing first and idk much time later another wing. It would be just a small amount of a raid content but enough not to frustrate casual players. Or maybe prehaps that you can make LFR easy wing run just 1 wing per week. There would be still huge content chunk for pros, and some procentage for casuals :D. Well we will see.

I’ve always had no issue with an easy mode so long as players cannot obtain achievement/collection progression and they receive no insights/divinations. They can only really do it for the “story” and to “train”.

@Dioskur.1743 said:I just hoped for those 2 raids modes. Gw2 way always the best mmo if you think about respecting players time.Once You have common raid squad and know tactics raids are getting faster and easier each time but still... why not made easy mode and current mode even harder if players really want it (for extra reward) and yes they want it. We all know that there are many players who strongly believe that current raids are to easy - and I understand it because they are if you have good team and experience.

Still easy mode LFR raids could come with huge realize gap. Like make only 1 wing first and idk much time later another wing. It would be just a small amount of a raid content but enough not to frustrate casual players. Or maybe prehaps that you can make LFR easy wing run just 1 wing per week. There would be still huge content chunk for pros, and some procentage for casuals :D. Well we will see.

The thing is there are bosses you almost can't make easier. For example at Mursaat Overseer (Wing 4, boss 2). 7-8 players just have to spank the boss and 2-3 others have to deal with some additional basic mechanics which aren't very hard to execute. Or Escort which is more an event than a boss which can be taught to new raiders easily so that new players don't have to deal with mechanics at all. A lot of today's raid veterans have started that way; they were new, were told to do a minimum of effort and learned from attempt to attempt and kill to kill.Nowadays training runs, especially organized via raid training discord communities, end up with getting 2-5 bosses down in the first evening. If you make raids easier than they are now you can't call them raids anymore and there's nothing different from killing trash mobs + some champs in the open world. Nothing you would learn from and nothing you will be prepared for towards the actual raid difficulty.People are using Dulfy to complete (map) achievements. If they did the same with raid bosses it would become so much easier for them to succeed.

Yes - escort and MO are so easy... but belive me in pugs it more often fails and fails so hard xD. So maybe just dont make tham easier ;) and make lfr matchmaking maybe ppl will learn in time

Good example: in Warframe everything has matchmaking... everything :D

@Dioskur.1743 said:Yes - escort and MO are so easy... but belive me in pugs it more often fails and fails so hard xD. So maybe just dont make tham easier ;) and make lfr matchmaking maybe ppl will learn in time

Good example: in Warframe everything has matchmaking... everything :D

Yes it fails because players don't even know one single basic thing or skill of their class. Preparation is everything but here the ability of players to play properly is lacking severely. As I said if you need to have an easy mode you need to dumb the encounter down so that you can kill every mob/boss with auto attacks only and it's guaranteed that you can't die.I mean, how hard is it to NOT step into a mine on escort. All you need to do is to stay far away if you have no clue to deactivate them. You just slot in one single stun break in case that you get feared. That's all and that's a thing thousands of players are not capable of. And because players are not able to use that one button content has to be tuned down? Really, no fricking way.

Exactly and thats why I made this post with easy mode. It's hard to get ppl who know what to do and most of them won't learn anything becouse it's hard for a newbie to even get a group xD it's a pathological cycle.

Seriously, if you are level 80 you should at least have a slight overview over the utilities of your classe. Otherwise you shouldn't start raiding since raids are the endgame of the endgame. Players should start with some dungeons and then head over to fractals. There is no need to rush to raids.

dungeons and fractals give no clue about how raids are made of. I am playing this game since beta and in my opinion this is how it is.The main problem is - you need 10 man and when there is 1 guy who fcksup everything mostly it is the end. Sometimes you can overdo this guy but in most cases you are done and 1 hour of teaming up, 1 hour for trying killing the boss is wasted. So much time wasted when you could just do other stuff in gw2 and get sth from it. And many ppl dont have 2hours to spend on nothing. and than another 1 hr teaming up ect ect...

Yay let's put on LFR!

Then this happens:Case 1 : A group of experienced people open up lfr, squad fills up, then they ask LI and KP to the people they don't know resulting in a kick or raid disband if they don't meet their requirements.

Case 2: A group of totally inexperienced people is made by the lfr, they can't kill a single boss cause nobody knows a single thing or has at least read about it beforehand, groups disband

Putting LFR is basically giving a chanche to people that are clueless about raiding to get into a raid group, before discovering that raid groups don't want them not because they don't have experience but because they have a bad attitude towards raiding.It won't work and it will fuel toxicity at worst, it won't be used at best.

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@"Dioskur.1743" said:benefits LFR with easy mode? Your Time. LFG better rewardsWhy there can't be both LFR and LFG? What's wrong that you have 2 options rather than 1? You can always choose. So for hardocre raiders nothing changes or devs can make it even harder/better rewards.

@"Dioskur.1743" said:Good example: in Warframe everything has matchmaking... everything :D

I'm not gonna go into the "easy mode" part, there is another thread about that, however, since you insist on the matchmaking thing I'll respond to that alone.

In Warframe there are no strictly defined roles, plus it's a group of 4 players meaning one of them can carry if they are good enough. Further, there are no mechanics in Warframe that must be done by two or more players at once, therefore a single good player can carry and finish any kind of content for the others. This isn't possible in content for 10 people for obvious reasons. Also keep in mind that in Raids the requirements within the same wing change depending on the boss. A "hand kiter" is needed for Deimos, but there is no need for one for the rest of the bosses of Bastion. This makes an automated matchmaking system an impossibility, unless it's done on a per boss basis. But this creates other issues, say you need 3 condition damage dealers for Vale Guardian, but you don't really need any for Gorseval, you create the automatic team for Vale Guardian and then what? The squad will either disband, or ask their members to swap their build to be appropriate for Gorseval, and then do some kicks if the proper builds aren't available.

As a result, an automatic matchmaking system cannot work for Raids. They work in other games because team composition doesn't matter (Warframe), or it's always pre-defined for example 1 tank, 1 healer, 3 dps for every encounter (other Raiding games), in GW2 the team composition matters AND it's fluid and not constant for all bosses/wings.

Good arguments everybody. But still LFR in wow somehow works quite fine... so there could be some hope to make it fine :) and squad composition yes but in easy mode I think there would be less boss mechanics

@Dioskur.1743 said:Good arguments everybody. But still LFR in wow somehow works quite fine... so there could be some hope to make it fine :) and squad composition yes but in easy mode I think there would be less boss mechanics

Most bosses in GW2 have very few but essential mechanics.

Now if we:

• strip all class composition to make a LFR even possible
• removed a majority of boss abilities and fight mechanics
• reduced the loot available

of what use exactly is the LFR or easy mode exactly? You neither learn the proper fight since mechanics were cut, you also have no loot incentive to go in and on top of all you do not get to practice your class or build.

Might as well not bother in that case or?

As I said there many ppl like me who: don't have 1hr to group up than 1hr trying/failing becouse someone fails and another 1hr grouping again again… and having regular raiding guild is out question as well bescoue of inconsistent free time - in the end I am kicked sooner or later becouse of being 1 month offline.

In the end raiding is like second job, because if I want to raid I need consistent schedule guild raiding and I can’t afford that. There are times that I can play all night long but as I said it’s random. You can't say it is not at least partly true for some ppl - and some I mean quite many. No hate really. Just life changes :)