Everything oneshots you. - Page 3 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Everything oneshots you.

13>

Comments

  • Ronnie Hu.1694Ronnie Hu.1694 Member ✭✭
    edited December 2, 2018


    https://i.imgur.com/xNLZ4nx.jpg
    i have 2600 and 25000 hp.. 1 hit took over 60% of my HP

  • Solori.6025Solori.6025 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ProverbsofHell.2307 said:
    Gotta interject here with regards to Warrior:

    Rifle is a gimmick weapon, no warrior who isn't memeing will be using this. One decent burst doesn't make up for a fairly meh weapon, and projectiles are horrible in WvW anyway and shouldn't be used seriously. Running mainhand axe is also a bad idea when sword is a clearly superior alternative (for sword leaps alone). And actually landing axe burst in WvW is a miracle in and of itself. Final Thrust is kinda kitten but lets face it, if you're under 50% health, you were dead anyway. 20k Final Thrust is just for jollies.

    I don't think anyone is defending the build.
    More so it was people telling another "warrior main" who seems to be so out of touch with reality and is too busy white knighting for his class that yes,
    the warrior is capable of one-shotting someone.
    Second vid I posted was just that, a warrior taking out someone with a 20k hit.

    Again, it's a meme build as you said, and the chances of running into someone doing that is rare.
    but it is possible.

    Tingle my stingleberry

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2, 2018

    Recently revisited wvw, what's new this time?
    Same results, Nothing Changes, being 1 shotted all over again

    (1 shotting has been in the game since day 1. Since then, it has only gotten worse)

    "If you don't change
    your approach than
    you will never change
    your results
    "

    " If you did the same thing you did
    yesterday as you did today as you
    will do tomorrow, what have you
    done?
    The Same Thing
    "

    same-old-same-old-sign.jpg

  • Zenix.6198Zenix.6198 Member ✭✭✭

    On a a more "on topic"-note however,

    I have to agree with OP tho. Damage across the board is simply too high.
    The two expansions we had so far have introduced massive powercreep to the game.
    Higher damage, higher healing, condi and boonspam, etc.
    Problem is, that player healthpools and amour rating are the same as they were back in 2012.
    5-digit damage values are completely ridiculous (one-shot or not) if you look at player healthpools percentage-wise.

    I recently advocated for some type of a damage and healing modifier in PvP-centric modes on the PvP-forums.
    Other big MMOs (like WoW for instance) also had to introduce such systems at some point, so I personally think it couldnt be too bad for GW2 as well.

    For those wondering what I mean:
    Something along the lines "15% less dmg received from players" and "15% less healing received from players".
    All sources, period. Any condition, any power dmg, any healing (combo fields, regen ticks, barrier, all of it).

    Yes, this wouldnt be fixing any balance issues, but it at least would prevent people from getting 2 shot from random stuff thats flung around (like a 13k aoe arcing slice on a 8 second CD). Currently strong classes would still be strong and weak classes would still be weak. It just extends fights for 15% (assuming thats the modifier).

    And for those of you, that fear the introduction of a "bunker" meta, since defensive skills wouldnt be affected by such a system:
    Lets look at endure pain for instance and assume a fight against a warrior lasts 180 seconds (3 minutes) currently.

    At 180 seconds the warrior gets to cast endure pain 180/30 = 6 times.
    Prolong that fight by 15% and you get to 207 seconds.
    At 207 seconds the warrior gets to cast endure pain 207/30 = 6.9 times.

    So a 30 second defensive would get 1 additional cast for a 3 and a half minute long fight ....which already is an excruciatingly long, fringe-case scenario.
    And the trade off is not getting absolutely demolished in 2 hits.

  • Gemnaid.4219Gemnaid.4219 Member ✭✭✭

    Too much passive invulnerable on cheese builds.

  • Deax.1572Deax.1572 Member ✭✭
    edited December 2, 2018

    @Hitman.5829 said:

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:

    @Hitman.5829 said:

    Lets stop with the useless talk and instead show me a video where there is a one shot build for warrior and then we will talk.
    One shot on warrior does not exist! Warrior is the only class that cannot 1 shot and I dare you to look for a video.

    This isn't entirely relevant since it was on an NPC, but regardless, this is one of the highest crits I've ever landed in WvW

    If you'd like, I can do some recording this weekend to see how many one shots I can manage. I guarantee you it can be done, and with relative ease. In fact, it can do true one shots, meaning not rapid multi-hits like a Mesmer shatter for example.

    Also, here you go. A build easily capable of one shots:
    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vJEQJAURjEdQdH23BuhAnIGICK9Lm+twCgIYAuyIDWeA-jFSBABLcEAoU9nNOEAmpEEPdBAcBAy/BAc1+jyvAAIA38mZzbG4m38m38m3srbzsZ28m3MpAGVrF-w

    Healing activates Peak Performance (+33% damage), using both Signets activates Signet Mastery (+200 Ferocity), Burst Mastery = +7% more damage, Warriors Sprint = +3% damage, Scholar runes = +5% damage, Berserker's Power = +21% damage. Most of which will be active before you hit your target. Shouldn't be hard to get between 20 and 25k crits on squishies. And with Quickness, it's a much shorter cast time + unblockable from the Signet.

    All that aside, it is extremely telegraphed and the build is a gimmick. Meaning it can't do much else besides one shot cheese. Still, even without a dedicated gimmick build, Warrior is easily capable of extremely high damage. I think you need to let go of the idea that Warrior can't pump out insane levels of damage.

    Video of 1 shot builds or they do not exist. HINT: they do not exist, so don't waste your time searching because I already did.
    That combat log only proves that you were on a serg, warrior cannot reach that damage level by itself.

    I am still waiting for a 1 shot video for warrior.

    Sadly, it seems Grogert Wolfborn either deleted or made his vid private/unlisted. He did have a vid i could have given you where he pretty much one shots many people. Basically the build is full zerk Spellbreaker with sword/dagger and GS. Strength/Discipline/SB. Something like this http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vJAQNAsYRAldsQEYGBgIwAQ5LM92C4/4j8TG-jVROwAA2fYkyPi6DAr+jMlgkCoKJbA-w
    The trick is to Bull's Charge which procs peak performance and then follow up with dagger 4# Wastrel's Ruin which doubles in damage if your target isn't using any skills, they won't be if you've successfully cc'd them. The numbers can go really high on squishy targets. The charge itself hits like a truck and then you follow up with a ~14k or higher Wastrel's Ruin. The down side is less defenses, melee and less likely to catch people off guard than say a thief. A guildie has been using this build in wvw for fun. It's definitely harder to play, but the bursts you land do feel sweet. Maybe contact Grogert, he's a very skilled warrior and a cool dude, he could share the build in greater detail.
    Edit: Talked with Grogert, his vid was taken down by youtube for some reason, still im sure he'd help you out with the build should you ask him.

  • first vid on youtube when you search for one shot war, in the first 20sec you see him crit for 20k with rifle , imo the quicknes gunflame is still better (and harder to dodge) but core war is doing alot of dmg too

  • SpellOfIniquity.1780SpellOfIniquity.1780 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 2, 2018

    @Deax.1572 said:

    Sadly, it seems Grogert Wolfborn either deleted or made his vid private/unlisted.

    I actually was going to link that exact video in my initial comment.

    [FBI] Open Up | Necromancer, Ranger, Warrior, Engineer, Revenant | Kaineng | Diamond Legend
    I'm not the only one, there is more of my kind. Stray from the path, leave the mass behind ... ♫

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2, 2018

    @Zenix.6198 said:
    On a a more "on topic"-note however,

    I have to agree with OP tho. Damage across the board is simply too high.
    The two expansions we had so far have introduced massive powercreep to the game.
    Higher damage, higher healing, condi and boonspam, etc.
    Problem is, that player healthpools and amour rating are the same as they were back in 2012.
    5-digit damage values are completely ridiculous (one-shot or not) if you look at player healthpools percentage-wise.

    I recently advocated for some type of a damage and healing modifier in PvP-centric modes on the PvP-forums.
    Other big MMOs (like WoW for instance) also had to introduce such systems at some point, so I personally think it couldnt be too bad for GW2 as well.

    For those wondering what I mean:
    Something along the lines "15% less dmg received from players" and "15% less healing received from players".
    All sources, period. Any condition, any power dmg, any healing (combo fields, regen ticks, barrier, all of it).

    Yes, this wouldnt be fixing any balance issues, but it at least would prevent people from getting 2 shot from random stuff thats flung around (like a 13k aoe arcing slice on a 8 second CD). Currently strong classes would still be strong and weak classes would still be weak. It just extends fights for 15% (assuming thats the modifier).

    And for those of you, that fear the introduction of a "bunker" meta, since defensive skills wouldnt be affected by such a system:
    Lets look at endure pain for instance and assume a fight against a warrior lasts 180 seconds (3 minutes) currently.

    At 180 seconds the warrior gets to cast endure pain 180/30 = 6 times.
    Prolong that fight by 15% and you get to 207 seconds.
    At 207 seconds the warrior gets to cast endure pain 207/30 = 6.9 times.

    So a 30 second defensive would get 1 additional cast for a 3 and a half minute long fight ....which already is an excruciatingly long, fringe-case scenario.
    And the trade off is not getting absolutely demolished in 2 hits.

    My biggest issue with this kind of action is that the game since HoT and PoF has reduced cool downs across the board as part of this carebear "nerfing hurts twice as much as buffing so all we'll do is buff most of the time" idiotology. This leads to the spam you said but it doesn't make the game any more fun as the get out of jail free cards get lower making it incredibly forgiving and when you couple that with the power creep you get very forgiving builds that are a very serious threat to experienced players from even average players.

    There's also a lesser brought up aspect too, ANet have been buffing core traits and skills on some classes since HoT and PoF when they were considered extremely poorly represented and weak in the meta by all accounts. What this leads to is some class/build combos that are incredibly strong like core guard, core S/D thief before the last nerf. You also have something like ranger which has insane synergy and power even in core but at the other end of the spectrum are things like core mesmer and I would say core necro and engy but ANet seems to be buffing them now in the last round of balance patches though the engy changes also buff holo because LUL.

    This leads to a really sharp contrast between what is meta and what is not, it's even more harsh if you're limited by expansions or don't want to play condi or power. This makes the game a lot less fun and even more so when power creep makes the alternative to what you'd like to run stronger but your build is still back in 2014 in terms of combat ability. Ironically no-one thinks of this kind of nerfing and how much that hurts the community instead only focusing on the direct nerfs which hurt at the time but after a few months people largely don't care about.

    I stand with Mo.

  • Brujeria.7536Brujeria.7536 Member ✭✭✭

    Generally speaking its okay for some skills, or skill combinations, to do high amounts of burst damage. But these kind of burst damage should always come at a a cost and a heavy amount of skill and/or risk involved. Things have been getting out of hand for a long time. Best example are Revenant Hammer and Longbow ranger. These are long range skills, yet they are able to deal huge amounts of damage. In case of Rev Hammer the skills themself completly lack counterplay as most of them are not even projectiles. Its not okay for a long range auto attack to deal that much damage. Skill 2 on both of these weapons are busted damage wise. The damage would even be too high for a meele attack. In case of rev it gets even more severe skill 5 is a ranged AOE CC skill that deals huge amount of damage. CC skills should not deal damage. Ranged skills should not deal that much damage either. To top it of the cooldown is even at 15 seconds.

    There are usually a few very simple rules when balancing skill damage:

    Long Ranged attacks should deal much less damage then meele attacks. (Rev Hammer, Ranger Longow, Ele Staff, Mesmer GS, Thief rifle)
    CC Skills should deal lower damage. AOE CC Skills should deal much lower or no damage at all. (Rev Hammer, Scrapper Hammer, Warrior Hammer)
    Skills should have a clear identity - a skill thats a gapcloser and a evade or a gapcloser and a stun should not deal much damage, thats not the purpose of the skill. (A lot of warrior skills, a lot of rev skills e.g. sword 3, staff 5, mesmer mantras to some degree)
    Skills that lack counterplay should not exist, and if so, they should not do much damage. (Every attack coming from stealth, Rev sword 3)
    Complete Damage immunity should not allow any actions (no stomps, no rezzes, no burst damage)
    Partial damage immunity should be very rare and on a very long cooldown (Reasoning is these skills completly negate gear investment, allowing to reach very high damage trough stats without the need for defensive stats while still providing very strong defense)
    Auto Attacks should not deal much damage (Thief, Ranger Longbow, Holosmith, Reaper, and so on)

    These points all dont mean that meele skills should be allowed to deal such high amounts of damage either, but these skills should be granted more damage because thats their sole purpose.

    Overall, the deciding factor on what deals the most damage should be stat investment. The fact that some skills and mechanics are just OP on a isolated skill damage basis and the fact that some classes get way too much defense baseline, without stat scaling is one of the biggest problems of the powercreep in this game. The other factor is that the overall balance is very biased towards power damage - there are a lot of skills to remove conditions, to prevent condition damage alltogether (in form of resistance) but no such rules apply for power damage, damage modifiers on traits are heavily biased towards power skills also.

    The fact that these aspects got so out of hand resulted in the opposite getting a hefty powercreep as well - healing and boons - they are broken too in a attempt to easy the pain of powercreep in power damage.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 3, 2018

    @Brujeria.7536 said:
    Things have been getting out of hand for a long time. Best example are Revenant Hammer and Longbow ranger. These are long range skills, yet they are able to deal huge amounts of damage. In case of Rev Hammer the skills themself completly lack counterplay as most of them are not even projectiles.

    Waaaaat... pff 6k hammer autoattacks against 3k armor is nothing

    Power pistol on engineer, now that's damage.

  • DemonSeed.3528DemonSeed.3528 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Brujeria.7536 said:
    Things have been getting out of hand for a long time. Best example are Revenant Hammer and Longbow ranger. These are long range skills, yet they are able to deal huge amounts of damage. In case of Rev Hammer the skills themself completly lack counterplay as most of them are not even projectiles.

    Waaaaat... pff 6k hammer autoattacks against 3k armor is nothing

    Power pistol on engineer, now that's damage.

    You reminded me of the squirt gun my engi had :(

  • @Zenix.6198 said:
    On a a more "on topic"-note however,

    I have to agree with OP tho. Damage across the board is simply too high.
    The two expansions we had so far have introduced massive powercreep to the game.
    Higher damage, higher healing, condi and boonspam, etc.
    Problem is, that player healthpools and amour rating are the same as they were back in 2012.
    5-digit damage values are completely ridiculous (one-shot or not) if you look at player healthpools percentage-wise.

    I recently advocated for some type of a damage and healing modifier in PvP-centric modes on the PvP-forums.
    Other big MMOs (like WoW for instance) also had to introduce such systems at some point, so I personally think it couldnt be too bad for GW2 as well.

    For those wondering what I mean:
    Something along the lines "15% less dmg received from players" and "15% less healing received from players".
    All sources, period. Any condition, any power dmg, any healing (combo fields, regen ticks, barrier, all of it).

    Yes, this wouldnt be fixing any balance issues, but it at least would prevent people from getting 2 shot from random stuff thats flung around (like a 13k aoe arcing slice on a 8 second CD). Currently strong classes would still be strong and weak classes would still be weak. It just extends fights for 15% (assuming thats the modifier).

    And for those of you, that fear the introduction of a "bunker" meta, since defensive skills wouldnt be affected by such a system:
    Lets look at endure pain for instance and assume a fight against a warrior lasts 180 seconds (3 minutes) currently.

    At 180 seconds the warrior gets to cast endure pain 180/30 = 6 times.
    Prolong that fight by 15% and you get to 207 seconds.
    At 207 seconds the warrior gets to cast endure pain 207/30 = 6.9 times.

    So a 30 second defensive would get 1 additional cast for a 3 and a half minute long fight ....which already is an excruciatingly long, fringe-case scenario.
    And the trade off is not getting absolutely demolished in 2 hits.

    Damage is too high Only for people who run tanky builds.

    One can run power with toughness and vitality and still benefit from other damage enhancing modifiers in a group setting (and there are many). The end result, is this tanky build can run around critting till the cows come home with fairly high damage, even against other classes who run tanky. But what happens when this same tanky build hits a zerk class? They kill them in 2-4 hits.. soooo why exactly is this allowed?

    If a player chooses to run zerker, they should always be able to down someone even in the tankiest build with damage reduction modifiers in 1-4 hits. The trade-off is, they get whacked usually in 1-4 hits from any class, no matter what gear or build they're running. The game is far too forgiving damage wise for people who run tanky.

    I've said this before; power, precision, and ferocity should not exist on any gear containing toughness or vitality. Furthermore, those who choose to run lots of toughness and vitality, should barely benefit (or not benefit at all) from might, ferocity, or even quickness. Think of it this way, if a tanky dude was to sit in front of a zerker target and just continually press "1", it should take probably a good 30-60 seconds to kill that zerker target if they remained stationary.

    That's what needs to happen; people that want to run tanky need to have their damage massively scaled down at least 75% or more. Then the problem is solved, an entire tanky melee train leaps on you swinging.. they'd be lucky to knock out 10% of the targets health. But those who choose to live on the edge and go glassy, absolutely must have the ability to down any class in any build in the tankiest of gear in 1-4 hits, because they go down in 1-4 hits.

    I havn't forgotten about condition damage either. Condition damage or duration should not exist on toughness or vitality gear either.

  • Zenix.6198Zenix.6198 Member ✭✭✭

    @DeadlySynz.3471 said:

    @Zenix.6198 said:
    On a a more "on topic"-note however,

    I have to agree with OP tho. Damage across the board is simply too high.
    The two expansions we had so far have introduced massive powercreep to the game.
    Higher damage, higher healing, condi and boonspam, etc.
    Problem is, that player healthpools and amour rating are the same as they were back in 2012.
    5-digit damage values are completely ridiculous (one-shot or not) if you look at player healthpools percentage-wise.

    I recently advocated for some type of a damage and healing modifier in PvP-centric modes on the PvP-forums.
    Other big MMOs (like WoW for instance) also had to introduce such systems at some point, so I personally think it couldnt be too bad for GW2 as well.

    For those wondering what I mean:
    Something along the lines "15% less dmg received from players" and "15% less healing received from players".
    All sources, period. Any condition, any power dmg, any healing (combo fields, regen ticks, barrier, all of it).

    Yes, this wouldnt be fixing any balance issues, but it at least would prevent people from getting 2 shot from random stuff thats flung around (like a 13k aoe arcing slice on a 8 second CD). Currently strong classes would still be strong and weak classes would still be weak. It just extends fights for 15% (assuming thats the modifier).

    And for those of you, that fear the introduction of a "bunker" meta, since defensive skills wouldnt be affected by such a system:
    Lets look at endure pain for instance and assume a fight against a warrior lasts 180 seconds (3 minutes) currently.

    At 180 seconds the warrior gets to cast endure pain 180/30 = 6 times.
    Prolong that fight by 15% and you get to 207 seconds.
    At 207 seconds the warrior gets to cast endure pain 207/30 = 6.9 times.

    So a 30 second defensive would get 1 additional cast for a 3 and a half minute long fight ....which already is an excruciatingly long, fringe-case scenario.
    And the trade off is not getting absolutely demolished in 2 hits.

    Damage is too high Only for people who run tanky builds.

    One can run power with toughness and vitality and still benefit from other damage enhancing modifiers in a group setting (and there are many). The end result, is this tanky build can run around critting till the cows come home with fairly high damage, even against other classes who run tanky. But what happens when this same tanky build hits a zerk class? They kill them in 2-4 hits.. soooo why exactly is this allowed?

    If a player chooses to run zerker, they should always be able to down someone even in the tankiest build with damage reduction modifiers in 1-4 hits. The trade-off is, they get whacked usually in 1-4 hits from any class, no matter what gear or build they're running. The game is far too forgiving damage wise for people who run tanky.

    I've said this before; power, precision, and ferocity should not exist on any gear containing toughness or vitality. Furthermore, those who choose to run lots of toughness and vitality, should barely benefit (or not benefit at all) from might, ferocity, or even quickness. Think of it this way, if a tanky dude was to sit in front of a zerker target and just continually press "1", it should take probably a good 30-60 seconds to kill that zerker target if they remained stationary.

    That's what needs to happen; people that want to run tanky need to have their damage massively scaled down at least 75% or more. Then the problem is solved, an entire tanky melee train leaps on you swinging.. they'd be lucky to knock out 10% of the targets health. But those who choose to live on the edge and go glassy, absolutely must have the ability to down any class in any build in the tankiest of gear in 1-4 hits, because they go down in 1-4 hits.

    I havn't forgotten about condition damage either. Condition damage or duration should not exist on toughness or vitality gear either.

    I think its less about gear tbh and more about how some classes have developed over the years.
    Maybe my PoV is a bit different in that regard, since im mainly a PvP player and not really invested in the WvW meta.

    The access to 25 might, perma fury, quickness and a vast array of damage modifiers paired with low CD defensives and high uptime of defensive boons simply allows for insanely forgiving playstyles.

    If I have easy access to 25 might and high fury uptime, I can built very defensively and still hit like a truck. If I have tons of low CD defenses and damage mitigation I can built very offensively and still survive just fine.
    Its not uncommon to see people use defensives just to cover their burst windows instead of saving them for opportune counter-play moments.
    Which is a big part why GW2 player combat feels like a massive spamfest. There is very little tactical/systematical gameplay anymore.

    Regardless of spec and gear: It is completely unacceptable to be able to kill anybody in 1-4 hits.

  • Straegen.2938Straegen.2938 Member ✭✭✭

    Deadeye, its "one shot" has a massive tell and most of those one-shot builds have zero additional toughness. When a player hears the bhrrrrrr, dodge. It is that simple. Backstab versions are far more dangerous but also have to get up close and personal typically on a glassy build. Thieves also self-cannibalize their own class mates. Most that run a thief, die a lot outside of the most careful carrion players.

    Winters Bite is an entirely different problem but at least it requires a fairly decent windup... course it doesn't have a tell so when it lands it can one shot even hardened players. IMO it is the current hardest hitting skill in the game. Barrage is its own sort of pain particularly when there are two of them pew-pew'ing.

    Warrior Kill Shot is a joke except it is on a class with a massive HP pool, heavy armor, solid escape, multi-invulns, tons of boon, reflect, etc. If it had a clean "one shot", the warrior which is already strong would easily be the most OP class in small scale.

    Mirage blow up is real but requires decent play and a bit glassy to pull off. Mirage condi that drops dozen plus stacks of torment is far more prevalent, easier to play and ultimately more dangerous due to its tanky nature. No class should have stealth, evasion, teleports and invuln in the same build.

    Engi variants... see Mirage. They are broken in my opinion. Virtually no downside to running one. Strong escape, stealth, evasion, multi-invuln, stuns, etc.

    Necro and its variants... they can hit hard but they are easy to kite. They are mostly a walking bag outside of a zerg.

    Ele and its variants can be deadly. The electrical attacks coupled with stuns can drop a heavily armored player in about a second. They also own the opposite end where they are virtually unkillable outside of multiple attackers. They move well but are a bit clunky in their rotations.

    Guardians... see Ele above. They move slow but their spike can be devastating. Their sustain is also impressive when built tanky.

    Revs... eh... some dangerous builds but mostly easily kited.

  • I have a feeling that Anet believes the current version of the power creep is hilarious for wvw roaming.
    https://youtube.com/watch?time_continue=453&v=pvYjXF11k8I

  • beatthedown.2651beatthedown.2651 Member ✭✭
    edited December 4, 2018

    Everyone is complaining how much powercreep we have right now while people don't even know what you could have pulled off back in (for example) 2013. While its true that access to might was pretty limited, protection wasn't as common either. Quickness was +100% attack speed, Longbow had 1800 range, stacking buffs were a thing and you could get additional stats from builds. Yes oneshots were not that common but counterpressuring such builds wasn't easy either. Look at old Youtube footage and see what people pulled off with Rapidfire or even DD oneshot Thief.

    So yes I agree that a few classes should be toned down, but for the love of god don't argue that everything was better back in the days. Maybe some of you want post HOT meta back (right after the expansion) where everything hits like a wet noodle...

  • Solori.6025Solori.6025 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @beatthedown.2651 said:

    So yes I agree that a few classes should be toned down, but for the love of god don't argue that everything was better back in the days. Maybe some of you want post HOT meta back (right after the expansion) where everything hits like a wet noodle...

    If you havent been following the forums for the last several months, that actually is what people want. No one likes to die, so obviously being immortal is what the pvp community wants, fights never ending until a friend shows up or you mess up your sustain rotation.

    Tingle my stingleberry

  • Substance E.4852Substance E.4852 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 8, 2018

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @Substance E.4852 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:
    The problem with this argument is that there is also incredibly tanky builds that are nearly unkillable by any sigle player unless they spec full damage.

    Counterplay definetly exist. People are just generally too lazy to see it, its easier to complain about what kills them. The short version is damage counter bunker, hybrid counter damage and the bunker give both hybrid and damage time to do their job.

    Ya except this isn't spvp and most people can't just swap to nomads to take out the deadeye dancing around spawn.

    i would really like to see how you kill a deadeye while you are in nomads, first time i hear that this stat combo was a good thing to take out a deadeye.

    It's called an example.

    @beatthedown.2651 said:
    Look at old Youtube footage and see what people pulled off with Rapidfire or even DD oneshot Thief.

    In what universe is pre-PoF rapid fire hitting for more than post with the benefit of beastmode stats, modern trait bonuses, and +40% from sic em?

    You also used to have to blow multiple utilities to get a 5 digit stealth hit on a thief. It also required a melee hit.

  • gebrechen.5643gebrechen.5643 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 11, 2018

    I don't know what you mean by "abilities that can oneshot you".

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭
    edited December 10, 2018

    The damage is too high. Arenet may have handed out a lot of blocks, invulnerability and mobility to combat its increase,save a few profession they left out lol. Keeping a check on the damage in first place would have been ideal, create more enjoyable sustained duels that can better make use of some of the creative combat mechanics and skills arenet has developed. Would also alow more viable build diversity,adding mechanics or skills to deal with something broken is just adding more to the problem and creating more broken mechanics and skills,it’s especially a problem when only half the professions get these bandaids added to their skills etc

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 11, 2018

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    The damage is too high. Arenet may have handed out a lot of blocks, invulnerability and mobility to combat its increase,save a few profession they left out lol. Keeping a check on the damage in first place would have been ideal, create more enjoyable sustained duels that can better make use of some of the creative combat mechanics and skills arenet has developed. Would also alow more viable build diversity,adding mechanics or skills to deal with something broken is just adding more to the problem and creating more broken mechanics and skills,itSs especially a problem when only half the professions get these bandaids added to their skills etc

    well said

    ' You don't extinguish fire by adding more fire '

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    The damage is too high. Arenet may have handed out a lot of blocks, invulnerability and mobility to combat its increase,save a few profession they left out lol. Keeping a check on the damage in first place would have been ideal, create more enjoyable sustained duels that can better make use of some of the creative combat mechanics and skills arenet has developed. Would also alow more viable build diversity,adding mechanics or skills to deal with something broken is just adding more to the problem and creating more broken mechanics and skills,it’s especially a problem when only half the professions get these bandaids added to their skills etc

    Yet when you ask... basicly everybody... what the definition of "skill" is they will say running high risk low reward builds - ie glass cannons - and then they shun the sustain builds as OP, low risk and abuse of mechanics.

    So what is it we want?

  • lodjur.1284lodjur.1284 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    The damage is too high. Arenet may have handed out a lot of blocks, invulnerability and mobility to combat its increase,save a few profession they left out lol. Keeping a check on the damage in first place would have been ideal, create more enjoyable sustained duels that can better make use of some of the creative combat mechanics and skills arenet has developed. Would also alow more viable build diversity,adding mechanics or skills to deal with something broken is just adding more to the problem and creating more broken mechanics and skills,it’s especially a problem when only half the professions get these bandaids added to their skills etc

    Yet when you ask... basicly everybody... what the definition of "skill" is they will say running high risk low reward builds - ie glass cannons - and then they shun the sustain builds as OP, low risk and abuse of mechanics.

    So what is it we want?

    Well that depends on what circles you move in. Basically "everybody" I know agrees that burst+mobility is less "skilled" than sustain builds. But skilled is a very loose and subjective term, so is what kind of fights one finds enjoyable.

    Ögonen omges av vita och svarta penseldrag som gör att de ser större ut än vad de egentligen är. Baksidan av lodjurets öron kantas av svart päls som slutar i den karaktäristiska tofsen högst upp på örat. Lodjurets svans är kortare än de flesta andra kattdjurs.

  • MUDse.7623MUDse.7623 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 11, 2018

    @lodjur.1284 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    The damage is too high. Arenet may have handed out a lot of blocks, invulnerability and mobility to combat its increase,save a few profession they left out lol. Keeping a check on the damage in first place would have been ideal, create more enjoyable sustained duels that can better make use of some of the creative combat mechanics and skills arenet has developed. Would also alow more viable build diversity,adding mechanics or skills to deal with something broken is just adding more to the problem and creating more broken mechanics and skills,it’s especially a problem when only half the professions get these bandaids added to their skills etc

    Yet when you ask... basicly everybody... what the definition of "skill" is they will say running high risk low reward builds - ie glass cannons - and then they shun the sustain builds as OP, low risk and abuse of mechanics.

    So what is it we want?

    Well that depends on what circles you move in. Basically "everybody" I know agrees that burst+mobility is less "skilled" than sustain builds. But skilled is a very loose and subjective term, so is what kind of fights one finds enjoyable.

    i guess that mostly is because of what people consider as risky and rewarding. while dwadler called the glass cannons high risk & low reward , the ones calling burst+mobility less skilled usually say that those are low risk (good escape options) , high reward (one little distraction of the opponent is enough).
    this also depends on context, can you use suprise / distraction or not. if you can, then burst+mobility is often 'less skilled' - aka better/efficient.

    read this, become a better player now.

  • lodjur.1284lodjur.1284 Member ✭✭✭

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @lodjur.1284 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    The damage is too high. Arenet may have handed out a lot of blocks, invulnerability and mobility to combat its increase,save a few profession they left out lol. Keeping a check on the damage in first place would have been ideal, create more enjoyable sustained duels that can better make use of some of the creative combat mechanics and skills arenet has developed. Would also alow more viable build diversity,adding mechanics or skills to deal with something broken is just adding more to the problem and creating more broken mechanics and skills,it’s especially a problem when only half the professions get these bandaids added to their skills etc

    Yet when you ask... basicly everybody... what the definition of "skill" is they will say running high risk low reward builds - ie glass cannons - and then they shun the sustain builds as OP, low risk and abuse of mechanics.

    So what is it we want?

    Well that depends on what circles you move in. Basically "everybody" I know agrees that burst+mobility is less "skilled" than sustain builds. But skilled is a very loose and subjective term, so is what kind of fights one finds enjoyable.

    i guess that mostly is because of what people consider as risky and rewarding. while dwadler called the glass cannons high risk & low reward , the ones calling burst+mobility less skilled usually say that those are low risk (good escape options) , high reward (one little distraction of the opponent is enough).
    this also depends on context, can you use suprise / distraction or not. if you can, then burst+mobility is 'less skilled' - aka better/efficient.

    Ye exactly imo sustain builds are much higher risk because you can't reset
    Well all viable builds in wvw either have decent sustain (in groups this can mean having a pet firebrand) or good mobility. Otherwise they simply don't work. So in practice there's no build that everyone would consider to be "high risk" that isn't just high risk because it's bad.

    Most people call for example power mirage or thief glass cannons but they really aren't with the active defenses available.

    Ögonen omges av vita och svarta penseldrag som gör att de ser större ut än vad de egentligen är. Baksidan av lodjurets öron kantas av svart päls som slutar i den karaktäristiska tofsen högst upp på örat. Lodjurets svans är kortare än de flesta andra kattdjurs.

  • IMHO professions that have higher sustain should have good damage but not great,access to protection buffs(-33 damage) no invul skills, a block and just enough mobility to traverse maps and duel efficiently, medium Susan classes better damage, less access to protection buffs,a block and no invul. Glass classes highest damage,teleport,block and a invulnerability skill( high CD, low duration) no access to protection buffs. Arenet balance team I gues thinks the high sustain professions should have the invul,blocks,protection access,really high damage,great mobility, necro excluded.the glass classes of the game get damage on same lever as classes with way higher sustain yet way less access to defensive options other then better mobility(not by much in a lot of cases) which results in pike and retreat play styles which isn’t healthy,too few classes give enough meaningful support to the team in a for a mmo so get tight metas with not only same few builds but also classes and that’s not healthy. Example necro and reaper I always get frustrated with its lack of mobility,blocks and invul access compared to other professions with natural high sustain professions but maybe it’s the other classes have too much not that necro has to little. Games got a lot going for it and I find the community pretty decent as well as can be expected from us humans lol but game needs a lot of changes as far as balance direction. Pve is decent but all pvp modes are so imbalanced that new players get frustrated and don’t bother with them which is unfortunate

  • To the post above issue I find is high sustain builds that use tons of blocks and invulnerability skills also have access to good mobility tools,Boonbeast i swoop,greatsword leap,same for warrior, guard leap and teleport,holo shrink invul and stealth access and than thief has ability to reset but very little else to compansate. A class shouldn’t have to depend on whittling away defenses as well as being so glassy it needs to reset,if it’s natural sustain and access to defensives are so low it’s reseting fights as its main way to service than it should have a high enough burst to take any profession down in a single bust if opponent doesn’t skillfully use there deffensive options effectively to avoid the unhealthy stab and run kitten that thief is now which isn’t fun for either party’s in most cases. Mirage is poorly balanced because it has access to far to many things compared to the other professions

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    The damage is too high. Arenet may have handed out a lot of blocks, invulnerability and mobility to combat its increase,save a few profession they left out lol. Keeping a check on the damage in first place would have been ideal, create more enjoyable sustained duels that can better make use of some of the creative combat mechanics and skills arenet has developed. Would also alow more viable build diversity,adding mechanics or skills to deal with something broken is just adding more to the problem and creating more broken mechanics and skills,it’s especially a problem when only half the professions get these bandaids added to their skills etc

    Yet when you ask... basicly everybody... what the definition of "skill" is they will say running high risk low reward builds - ie glass cannons - and then they shun the sustain builds as OP, low risk and abuse of mechanics.

    So what is it we want?

    I think most people can agree that a build with a high amount of passive effects is on the lower end of risk/skill. By passive effects I mean where something happens with no user interaction at all like protective ward on ranger, the multitudes of passive effects on ele/engineer for being hit or CC'd.

    I guess it also depends on stats as well, no-one will deny that running berserker gear on low/medium health classes is higher risk especially in the meta with so much damage. Running high toughness + protection is pretty much going to counter almost all power classes to the point where the other person shouldn't really win, you might not either but you take so little damage you can afford many mistakes. However itself might be weak to condition builds if not having cleanses or high vitality.

    Many people will point at condition builds as being low risk high reward. In some ways they are in many ways they aren't. You can dodge and block most "bursts" of condition damage and if you look at how much damage the autos do compared to power it's usually less damage without factoring the ability to cleanse. There are some condition builds that are too strong, they burst too much, too fast in a very oppressive way while having the ability to escape but is it any worse than the power builds that can do that too which will kill you in seconds?

    Personally I think more skilful builds are those where all traits/skills require user input and the ones at the lower end of the skill/risk spectrum are those builds where there's no real counter or weakness outside of them making a mistake. So that's pretty much holo/soulbeast/druid/condition mirage and while condition builds are your best bet against them they're certainly not going to go down without a fight to condition builds if they use their noggins.

    I stand with Mo.

  • Deadeye should lose perma-stealth aswell, I know some people would complain that a thief can pop in and kill them but it makes more sense for a glassy class than for a guard for example sword teleporting in and bursting u to 0 while having Ageis and protection up whole time lol

  • All classes should have the tools if played skillfully to counter all other professions like guard has eagis, thief mobility and burst,necro debuffs and Condi damage or power if reaper etc each should have their own thing that’s effective but arenet given most of the classes mix bag of other professions tricks and some already had enough, it’s to a point where mesmers a better thief and guards a better warrior etc

  • I’m a ranger main that uses the dirty Boonbeast build and I’m not nearly as skilled as most of u out there, I’ve been playing for 3 yrs but man their are great players out their and I’ve won some duels I shouldn’t have, do I want ranger toned down? Not if other classes wernt but if other classes were toned down to and some buffed I wouldn’t be upset about it. Yeah I’m a hypercrit but most use overturned builds or cheese as a way to counteract others builds and cheese lol

13>
©2010–2018 ArenaNet, LLC. All rights reserved. Guild Wars, Guild Wars 2, Heart of Thorns, Guild Wars 2: Path of Fire, ArenaNet, NCSOFT, the Interlocking NC Logo, and all associated logos and designs are trademarks or registered trademarks of NCSOFT Corporation. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners.