Holo & Invulnerability

I've been playing around in PVP for a few months so I'm still learning, but for the life of me I do not understand how or why Holo can go invulnerable multiple times in the span of a few seconds. How do they reduce Elixir S cooldown to a few seconds, or is there another Holo invul skill?

A secondary debate: get rid of invul stomps?

Kind regards.

@"Saharo Gravewind.5120" said:I've been playing around in PVP for a few months so I'm still learning, but for the life of me I do not understand how or why Holo can go invulnerable multiple times in the span of a few seconds. How do they reduce Elixir S cooldown to a few seconds, or is there another Holo invul skill?

A secondary debate: get rid of invul stomps?

Kind regards.

"...multiple times in the span of a few seconds"Now that is very exaggerated.

Holo/Engi has one Elixir S passive on a cooldown of 90 seconds as of this trait and one utility skill Elixir S on a cooldown of 60 seconds.

What you refer to as "...multiple times in the span of few seconds" is Holo/engi using utility Elixir S and then randomly getting proc of the mentioned trait Self-Regulating Defenses, and that is it for 90 seconds. Definitely no multiple uses within few seconds.

But yes, it is annoying nonetheless.

@Alatar.7364 said:

@"Saharo Gravewind.5120" said:I've been playing around in PVP for a few months so I'm still learning, but for the life of me I do not understand how or why Holo can go invulnerable multiple times in the span of a few seconds. How do they reduce Elixir S cooldown to a few seconds, or is there another Holo invul skill?

A secondary debate: get rid of invul stomps?

Kind regards.

I shit you not my friend. I don't have any documentation so my claims are ~baseless~ but I have had Holos go invul twice on me within 10 seconds. Are they just cheaters? :(

Sorry let me clairfy, and see if I'm understanding this correctly.Self-Regulating Defenses pops an Elixir S when health drops below 25%, and then the actual Elixir S can be used right after the initial invul wears off. But at a range far above the 25% health, going invulnerable twice, far under a 60 second cooldown is suspect?

@Saharo Gravewind.5120 said:Sorry let me clairfy, and see if I'm understanding this correctly.Self-Regulating Defenses pops an Elixir S when health drops below 25%, and then the actual Elixir S can be used right after the initial invul wears off. But at a range far above the 25% health, going invulnerable twice, far under a 60 second cooldown is suspect?

You can't go Invul on Holo more than twice within 90 seconds. You can go invul twice within 10 seconds if you will use utility Elixir S right before or right after the Self-Regulating Defenses, but you can't do that more than once per 90 seconds because thats the CD of passive. You can't go Invul under 60 seconds after the first activation of the Passive trait.

Had an 80% health Holo do this to me last week, now I know he was cheating, but for everyone else at low health it makes sense. Thanks for explaining this to me.

@Saharo Gravewind.5120 said:Had an 80% health Holo do this to me last week, now I know he was cheating, but for everyone else at low health it makes sense. Thanks for explaining this to me.

He could use the utility Elixir S and get bombed to 25% after or get the 25% passive proc - heal - utility Elixir S.

Only the movement in this game is done Client side, that's why all the hacks in Gw are movement related and also why you couldn't have ever met anyone using hacks that would allow multiple Elixir S uses.You just need to understand the scenarios.

Wait until this guy fights a mesmer and sees the mesmer constantly evading, dodging, blocking, going invis, blinking away, portalling an escape, etc.

Then...when he has a small window to hit the mesmer...he takes major damage himself via confusion.

@Alatar.7364 said:

@Saharo Gravewind.5120 said:Had an 80% health Holo do this to me last week, now I know he was cheating, but for everyone else at low health it makes sense. Thanks for explaining this to me.

Sorry, what does all hacks are movement related mean? That people cannot/don't hack other ways?

Also, I never got him below the 80%, so I don't think it would have been triggering anything.

Was gonna say, Mirage has about 9 seconds of invulnerability with free movement (4 sec distort)(Evades+vigor)(axe3)(sword2) so fighting a Holo with that is so much easier.

Passive elixir s traited is 72 seconds cd, active elixir s traited is 48 seconds.

You can go invuln twice in a matter of seconds if the passive procs and then you use the active as well, but then have to wait 48 seconds at least to be able to shrink again.

@Farkon.2170 said:Was gonna say, Mirage has about 9 seconds of invulnerability with free movement (4 sec distort)(Evades+vigor)(axe3)(sword2) so fighting a Holo with that is so much easier.

0-16 necromancer complainin about mesmer... cute ... why you lie there?To get 4s distortion u need 3 clones which is unrealistically to have in real combat situation , unless they actually change it to always grant 4s , I would like it way more2 evades like other classes (except drd that have 3 and can regain it) , vigor was gutted and never been perma unlike thieves/engis/etcAxe 3 is a free movement ? What?Sword 2 is a free movement ? What ?Also INVULNERABILITY is 4s only .Rest is an evadeLets think you have sword mh and axe ...Even if you count it as 4+2+1+3/4 =/= 9 . Math is hard?

@tinyreborn.1938 said:

@"Farkon.2170" said:Was gonna say, Mirage has about 9 seconds of invulnerability with free movement (4 sec distort)(Evades+vigor)(axe3)(sword2) so fighting a Holo with that is so much easier.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/a1iz6k/when_you_go_362_and_you_cant_carry_the_team/https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/9yuuo9/maybe_mirage_is_op_almost_effortless_plat/Pretty sure I'm good at Mirage and know what I'm talking about.

1+4+3/4+1+1+1+1 = 9 3/4Dodge+Distortion+Symmetry+Blurred+Dodge+Mirror+DodgeYou forgot about mirrors and with vigor you can dodge within 7 seconds. Most mirages use Mirage Mirror at a minimum, If you want to go overboard you can reach up to 13-14 seconds but most Mirages use blink and portal.

1+4+3/4+1+1+1+1+1/2+1+1+1+1= 14 1/4 seconds

Suffice to say it's a bit better then Holosmith's invuln where they do nothing while under elixir.

@Saharo Gravewind.5120 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@Saharo Gravewind.5120 said:Had an 80% health Holo do this to me last week, now I know he was cheating, but for everyone else at low health it makes sense. Thanks for explaining this to me.

Yes, it means only Speed/Movement hacks exist.People that you see using those hacks are just people who downloaded 3rd party programs, not actual hackers.Actual hackers can do stuff but "real hackers" don't spend their skills with something as trivial as hacking games to cheat. It is somewhat general misunderstanding that the people running around with cheats such as porting are hackers, they are not.

@Saharo Gravewind.5120 said:I've been playing around in PVP for a few months so I'm still learning, but for the life of me I do not understand how or why Holo can go invulnerable multiple times in the span of a few seconds. How do they reduce Elixir S cooldown to a few seconds, or is there another Holo invul skill?

Holosmith can use Elixir S twice: once from the utility skill that has a 60 seconds cooldown, 48 seconds if they're using the HGH trait in alchemy and the Self-Regulating Defenses which has a 90 seconds cooldown which also can be reduced to 72 seconds if they're using HGH.

A secondary debate: get rid of invul stomps?

Some players find invulnerable stomps annoying. The problem with the Elixir S stomp is that it's a very risky move. You're wasting a stun breaker which already has a fairly long cooldown and it can be used either to rally an ally or to stomp an enemy player. If the passive stun breaker has already been used, the only other stun breaker the holosmith can use is Elixir U.

Using Elixir S for the sole purpose of stomping enemy players only makes the holosmith more vulnerable to CC and condition damage, so not only is it a risky move, but also situational when it comes to stomping enemy players. The only time Elixir S stomps can be useful is when the enemy comp consists of strong support builds like firebrand which can rally players faster than you can deal cleave damage on downed players.

Kind regards.

@Farkon.2170 said:

@tinyreborn.1938 said:

@Farkon.2170 said:Was gonna say, Mirage has about 9 seconds of invulnerability with free movement (4 sec distort)(Evades+vigor)(axe3)(sword2) so fighting a Holo with that is so much easier.

@Saharo Gravewind.5120 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@Saharo Gravewind.5120 said:I've been playing around in PVP for a few months so I'm still learning, but for the life of me I do not understand how or why Holo can go invulnerable multiple times in the span of a few seconds. How do they reduce Elixir S cooldown to a few seconds, or is there another Holo invul skill?

A secondary debate: get rid of invul stomps?

Kind regards.

Elixir S is a utility skill to be used any time and its also in the traits.

Elixir S is probably the most "annoying" lifesaver in the game.Seeing that fancypantsy engineer wobbling around invulnerable for those few seconds is so frustrating :p

Mirage invulns is stronger overall though, engineers is just more "visually" annoying than practical compared to Mirages.

Whenever i see a Holo shrinking, i can't help but imagine my toon trying to crush it like a fleeing cockroach.

The passive proc is annoying for the person using it too because when you're trying to pull off a combo it procs and the only thing you can do with it is kite. Chill/cripple still affects movement speed so you can't get very far, nor can you proactively self-cleanse. Very rarely have I gotten the opportunity to get a stomp off of it. That use is unreliable.

Holo itself has already impressive survivability. Lots of healing through heat passive, regen and blasting water fields, nice protection uptime, as well as the best vigor uptime in the game. And also built-in condi cleanse/convert.And as a cherry on top there's elixir S, 4s invulnerability. Which by itself would be KIND OF fine. But then there's 2nd time via passive, which can be triggered back-to-back.And now, 8 s invuln - no matter how big is the cooldown -- well THAT is pure cancer.Especially on top of that quite impressive suvivability, that holo already has.(Considering, that 72 is not too big of a cooldown, actually, and 48 is even less so)

Personally, I'm ok with elixir S ALONE. And I'm ok with passive proc ALONE.The biggest offender, is that they usually happen as 1+1.

Least they could do to fix this shit - intriduce 20 s cooldown, such as if one of them is used/triggered, the other doesn't trigger/can't be used for 20s.

My only gripe with it is that engies can res and stomp while in Elixir S which does the same thing as Renewed Focus but the guardians cant stomp when they use their elite skill. Maybe all the Invulnerability skills should get the Ignore Pain, Stone signet treatment for sPVP.

I would like passive to trigger Elixir U instead of Elixir S.That shrink ruins so many combos from the engiplayer and is at times just as frustrating as it is for the opponent.Elixir U still gives stunbreak, stab, quickness and vigor which could be just as useful (if not more) at times and wouldnt be as annoying to face.

Wait until you fight against Mirage and update this post please.

I see Holo nerfs coming sometime early 2019 at least. I've recently gotten better at playing it, but I won't complain!