PvP specific dmg/healing modifiers

So, I have just returned to the game after a ~4ish month long hiatus and - not that I had any expectations - the state of PvP doesnt seem to have changed much.Sure, some minor balance changes happened and the rune/sigil system seems far more streamlined now....but the main issues since PoF launch havent been fixed at all.Specifically, the monumental powercreep.

It doesnt matter what class you run into, every single DPS spec feels super unfun to play against, simply because every single ability hits like a truck and takes a good chunk of your health on its lonesome. If your class or spec doesnt pack a lot of low-cd defensives, you will often find yourself getting one-shot (=please dont take this literally) out of nowhere.

I have heard the phrase "Just nerf everything" or "literally everything needs to be toned down" on quite a lot of streams lately and I fully agree with those statements.Since GW2 lacks gear progression (which is a good thing still) the last expansion(s) have thrown in a kittenton of low CD / high dmg-value skills to artificially create the illusion of "character progression". On the other hand, armor ratings and HP-pools have remained the same as they were in the core game.

Yada-yada-yada ....so how about a SPECIFIC PvP (and sure, why not WvW as well) damage and healing modifier?A flat-out, overall "-15 % to damage done" and "-15% to healing done" modifier from ALL sources.15% less dmg from ANY condition and any Power ability. Same for ALL healing....less combo field healing, lower regeneration ticks and all that (To prevent the dreaded bunker meta).Of course the "15%" value could be adjusted to anything. Just a number of the top of my head.

The power levels of all the specs would remain the same in relation to each other. And this wouldn't necessarily fix any balance issues.PvP would feel much less obnoxious than it does right now and the entry barrier for new(er) players would be lower....or at least making it easier to identify "what the kitten just happened".

Discuss

No. A global buff/ nerf solves nothing. The OP stuff is still strong and the rest hits like a wet noodle.

@Exedore.6320 said:No. A global buff/ nerf solves nothing. The OP stuff is still strong and the rest hits like a wet noodle.

Well ye ...but thats not the point.The whole point of this would be to not get 2-shot by powercrept cheese.

@Zenix.6198 said:

@Exedore.6320 said:No. A global buff/ nerf solves nothing. The OP stuff is still strong and the rest hits like a wet noodle.

But then a bunker boring meta will come out, even with a flat 15% or 20% healing reduced, some specs will be able to build bunker that 2 to 3 people are required to kill one guy and I find it way worse than power or condi meta.

The only thing you could do is balance specs in a way to be one dimensional, if you build yourself for being oneshot with crazy high power, you can't have even sustain and mobility and tools to hold even 1vs2 better than a bunker.If you are glass you must have a risk to play it.

@losingcontrol.1084 said:

@Zenix.6198 said:

@Exedore.6320 said:No. A global buff/ nerf solves nothing. The OP stuff is still strong and the rest hits like a wet noodle.

Can you clarify why you think this would enable a bunker meta?If overall dmg and overall healing are reduced by the exact same amount, you wouldnt all of a sudden be able to take on additional players. Fights would only last 15% longer (if we assume that value to be the modifier).That being said however, I can see how this could be a buff to purely defensive skills (like blocks and evades), since those could potentially be used more often during an encounter.

You do realize Skills/ Stats are balanced separately in PvP right? And generally they are weaker/nerfed variants in PvP than any other game mode.

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:You do realize Skills/ Stats are balanced separately in PvP right? And generally they are weaker/nerfed variants in PvP than any other game mode.

Im very well aware of that.Yet it doesnt change the fact that a revenant / core guardian / holosmith / soulbeast (you name it) can completely delete another full health player in a matter of ~3 seconds.

@Zenix.6198 said:Can you clarify why you think this would enable a bunker meta?If overall dmg and overall healing are reduced by the exact same amount, you wouldnt all of a sudden be able to take on additional players. Fights would only last 15% longer (if we assume that value to be the modifier).That being said however, I can see how this could be a buff to purely defensive skills (like blocks and evades), since those could potentially be used more often during an encounter.You answered it yourself. If a build is tanky because of evades, it's still equally as tanky with a healing reduction. But now that build is harder to kill because the damage against it between evades is less of it's total HP.

Bunker chrono was a thing mostly because of evades - not high healing.

I'm pretty sure bunker chrono was a thing mostly because of the synergy between the shield, Chronophantasma and Mental Defense.

@SlimChance.6593 said:I'm pretty sure bunker chrono was a thing mostly because of the synergy between the shield, Chronophantasma and Mental Defense.

No, it was so strong/oppressive because of slapping on AoE Blur on original Well Of Precog, on top of Alacrity and Continuum Split w/everything else.

@Zenix.6198 said:

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:You do realize Skills/ Stats are balanced separately in PvP right? And generally they are weaker/nerfed variants in PvP than any other game mode.

From what I’ve seen almost every class has a huge burst Spec, this is nothing new, and your suggestions wouldn’t fix anything really except bring back ore bunker meta since most class that are effective bunkers utilize negation/evasion over heals/toughness for damage mitigation.

@Exedore.6320 said:

@"Zenix.6198" said:Can you clarify why you think this would enable a bunker meta?If overall dmg and overall healing are reduced by the exact same amount, you wouldnt all of a sudden be able to take on additional players. Fights would only last 15% longer (if we assume that value to be the modifier).That being said however, I can see how this could be a buff to purely defensive skills (like blocks and evades), since those could potentially be used more often during an encounter.You answered it yourself. If a build is tanky because of evades, it's still equally as tanky with a healing reduction. But now that build is harder to kill because the damage against it between evades is less of it's total HP.

So for the sake of argument, lets simulate a fight against a bunker mes and specifically look at Echo of Memory (shield 4).35 sec CD block ... a skill that, yes, would be buffed.

Lets assume it takes 2 players 180 seconds (3 minutes) to kill the bunker mesmer:Prolong that fight by 15% and you get to 207 seconds.

For 180 seconds the mesmer gets 180/35 = 5.1 Shield 4 casts. Disregarding decimals thats 5 total casts of shield 4.For 207 seconds the mesmer gets 207/35 = 5.9 Shield 4 casts. Disregarding decimals thats STILL only a total of 5 shield 4 casts.

Yes, I did completely neglect Alacrity here, but getting one extra cast of a 35 second defensive every 3 minutes can barely be called "enabling a bunker meta" imo.Ofc this is more relevant to skills like Blurred Frenzy, but for a 207 second fight you also only get 2 extra casts.

Point being: That fights would have to go on for a ridiculous amount of time to see any payoff for bunker builds.

@Zenix.6198 said:

@Exedore.6320 said:

@Zenix.6198 said:Can you clarify why you think this would enable a bunker meta?If overall dmg and overall healing are reduced by the exact same amount, you wouldnt all of a sudden be able to take on additional players. Fights would only last 15% longer (if we assume that value to be the modifier).That being said however, I can see how this could be a buff to purely defensive skills (like blocks and evades), since those could potentially be used more often during an encounter.You answered it yourself. If a build is tanky because of evades, it's still equally as tanky with a healing reduction. But now that build is harder to kill because the damage against it between evades is less of it's total HP.

Well the only problem with this is it's not just 1 ability that keeps bunkers alive. It's many.

@bigo.9037 said:

@Zenix.6198 said:

@Exedore.6320 said:

@Zenix.6198 said:Can you clarify why you think this would enable a bunker meta?If overall dmg and overall healing are reduced by the exact same amount, you wouldnt all of a sudden be able to take on additional players. Fights would only last 15% longer (if we assume that value to be the modifier).That being said however, I can see how this could be a buff to purely defensive skills (like blocks and evades), since those could potentially be used more often during an encounter.You answered it yourself. If a build is tanky because of evades, it's still equally as tanky with a healing reduction. But now that build is harder to kill because the damage against it between evades is less of it's total HP.

ye, thats true.With this example I merely wanted to illustrate that the fear of "enabling bunkers" with the introduction of such a system is really not warranted==> since fights would have to become excruciatingly long to see any payoff for these kind of skills ....its basically negligible for defensives with a >30s cooldown.

And to be frank: If the trade-off would be not to get hit for 5-digit dmg skills like arcing slice or maul (which is utterly ridiculous if you compare it to the average healthpool of a player), thats a price I - personally - would be willing to pay.

WoW, for instance, also had to implement such a system after 2 (?) expansions, because players healthpools simply couldn't keep up with the damage inflation.So I honestly dont see why this would be a bad thing for GW as well.