Why does nobody use the other Warrior heal skills?

Really, they don't look all THAT bad compared to Healing Signet. I'm pretty bamboozled as to why I have never seen any warrior use a different heal - with most other classes there is small variance in heal skill selection, depending, but...Not warrior. HS every single time. The Spellbreaker heal I can understand, sort of, as losing 7 boons is absolutely ridiculous in the current meta - but in most SB vids I see, the player generally has only a couple boons that are easily reapplied anyway (painful to use if you have a Firebrand support spamming on you, but you probably don't need your heal right then, right?)

But the others don't seem quite so bad, and I've had some issues with the rather hefty cast time on Signet. I get that HS offers more healing overall, but it feels like there's a definite trade off in HS's sustained healing vs the other 'burstier' options.

Just as an example - I've started fooling around with running Str/Def/SB with MIght Makes Right. The sustained healing from the GM trait that rewards me for staying offensive is quite fun. I can also take the trait that reduces the CD On physical skills - Mending (which also has condi cleanse!) - and gives me a pretty hefty damage bonus. Pretty much everyone runs Defense, too, and the GM trait there includes stances, and we have a Stance heal skill - but I've never seen anyone use that either.

I also see some other discussion threads on the Warr forum about the other healing skills - just, based on personal experience, I really have never seen any of 'em used.

If someone could explain to me why HS reigns supreme + compared to the other options, I'd appreciate it. I've decided to try and main Warr for pvp and am trying to have a deeper understanding of the class. Thanks!

Because if its not meta its worthless. Most people cant be creative and make their own builds.

@"Curennos.9307" said:If someone could explain to me why HS reigns supreme + compared to the other options, I'd appreciate it. I've decided to try and main Warr for pvp and am trying to have a deeper understanding of the class. Thanks!

The reason why Healing Signet is used by warriors in PvP and WvW is because it's the strongest passive healing skill in the game. Even with 0 healing power, it gives you 344 health every second and if you can kite enemies behind cover, over obstacles or terrain, you can gain back health, especially if enemy players aren't foolish enough to chase you and leave the node unguarded, plus it grants you resistance similar to Berserker Stance which makes you immune to any kind of condition damage. Combine the passive healing with Adrenal Health and you've got yourself a near unstoppable killing machine.

In my opinion, Mending is a worthwhile healing skill that can be used even in PvP considering that in the previous balance patch it was made into a physical skill, so if you're using the Strength specialization and you take the Peak Performance trait, you now have a healing skill with 12 seconds cooldown and it removes 3 conditions. But this would only work if you're fighting against a mostly condition comp like scourges, mirages etc. and if you're playing core warrior.

The reason why I say core warrior is because it has better cleansing than spellbreaker. If you use the trait Cleansing Ire from the Defense specialization, you can remove conditions based on the number of adrenaline bars spent, spellbreaker has 2 bars, core warrior has 3 bars. Another thing is if you use the Burst Mastery trait from the Discipline specialization, you can use Eviscerate, remove 3 conditions (if your adrenaline bar is full), swap to the greatsword and remove one more condition because swapping weapons gives you adrenaline.

As for Defiant Stance and "To the Limit!", don't even bother with these skills. If I was forced to choose between the two, I would choose Defiant Stance over "To the Limit!", despite it being one of those stupid healing skills that rely on your enemies hitting you, also both of them have 30 seconds cooldown which can't be reduced using traits. "To the Limit!" is mostly used by core banner warriors in fractals and raids and that's the only reason why you would use it.

not only that, you will have resistance, to extend with Zerkers Stance, when you activate it. useful in either offensing or defensing.

Personally I use Mending or even the occasional Defiant Stance sometimes. That is WvW and open world. The condi cleanse became a bit less needed with the buff to Shake it Off, but it's still great imo, even without going Strength.

mending all the way. its 18 less hps compared to heal sig. the burst heal+condi removal is imo better then heal sigs active.

They aren't bad at all, really. It's just that Healing Signet will work slightly better for most builds, can't have its main function interrupted, and provides an emergency source of resistance. Mending is fine, but most warrior builds are sturdy enough not to need the big chunk of healing all at once, which means the main advantages will be the temporary damage boost from the trait/a preference for cleansing over resistance. The shout is a bit bleh, although it might have some use for a zerker gimmick build or something. Defiant Stance is good for what it is, an oddball alternative that gives us another invuln to go in and pressure with. Defiant Stance does have the problem of being a bit too easy to kite/wait out though- you can't rely on a big heal out of it against anyone paying attention.

This is all based on personal experience, mostly WvW roaming. I'm sure some of it would apply either more or less to Circle Wars, which I've been mostly away from for a while.

@Hoodie.1045 said:

@Curennos.9307 said:If someone could explain to me why HS reigns supreme + compared to the other options, I'd appreciate it. I've decided to try and main Warr for pvp and am trying to have a deeper understanding of the class. Thanks!

Wrong, healing signet is one of the weakest or mid tier healing for warrior.

• Healing signet: 344*20 = 6880 healing total
• mending: 6520/15 = 435 per second
• Defiant Stance: full health if you get attack by noobs OR 1800 if you do not get attacked at all.
• To the limit: 9100/30 = 303 per second

So, based on healing alone:1.- mending2- Defiant stance (conditional)3- Healing signet4.- To the limit

However, if we rank them with healing + side effects, then:1.- To the limit2.- Mending3.- Healing signet4.- Defiant Stance

The only reason warriors choose healing signet is because of resistance due to the current plague of noob-condi builds.Imagine a world where there is 0 noob condibuilds? why would a warrior choose healing signet over to the limit.

@Hitman.5829 said:

@Hoodie.1045 said:

@Curennos.9307 said:If someone could explain to me why HS reigns supreme + compared to the other options, I'd appreciate it. I've decided to try and main Warr for pvp and am trying to have a deeper understanding of the class. Thanks!

• Healing signet: 344*20 = 6880 healing total
• mending: 6520/15 = 435 per second
• Defiant Stance: full health if you get attack by noobs OR 1800 if you do not get attacked at all.
• To the limit: 9100/30 = 303 per second

I made a mistake of being too general with that statement, what I meant to say is that it's the best passive healing skill compared to other passive healing skills like Virtue of Resolve or Backpack Regenerator.

@Hoodie.1045 said:

@Hitman.5829 said:

@Hoodie.1045 said:

@Curennos.9307 said:If someone could explain to me why HS reigns supreme + compared to the other options, I'd appreciate it. I've decided to try and main Warr for pvp and am trying to have a deeper understanding of the class. Thanks!

• Healing signet: 344*20 = 6880 healing total
• mending: 6520/15 = 435 per second
• Defiant Stance: full health if you get attack by noobs OR 1800 if you do not get attacked at all.
• To the limit: 9100/30 = 303 per second

Well, you are now comparing apples to oranges and for your information virtue of resolve is not a healing skill neither backpack regenerator.

As much as I like HS, Warrior shouldn't have such a strong passive healing capability because as a class with a very small (maybe the smallest?) number of options to press; almost all their skills should be on low CD's and active.Not sure that explains it well.

Warriors basically have 11 core skills (10 hotbar and F1) and SB/Berserker have 12. I believe of all the classes, this is the smallest number of accessible actions. I don't think the class warrants such a strong passive skill given the small number of actions it has access to and for management reasons.

I can also see why it has it; everyone familiar with RPG's knows about a warrior class, so maybe Anet built it to be an 'easy' entry class for all players.

@Obtena.7952 said:As much as I like HS, Warrior shouldn't have such a strong passive healing capability because as a class with a very small (maybe the smallest?) number of options to press; almost all their skills should be on low CD's and active.Not sure that explains it well.

Warriors basically have 11 core skills (10 hotbar and F1) and SB/Berserker have 12. I believe of all the classes, this is the smallest number of accessible actions. I don't think the class warrants such a strong passive skill given the small number of actions it has access to and for management reasons.

I can also see why it has it; everyone familiar with RPG's knows about a warrior class, so maybe Anet built it to be an 'easy' entry class for all players.

Passive healing of 344 is equivalent to 6880 how is that strong?HS has been nerfed over and over again and people still complain? This is a L2P issue nothing more.If you think that 6880 healing is strong, then you are lost and need to uninstall game. It is that simple!

@Hitman.5829 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:As much as I like HS, Warrior shouldn't have such a strong passive healing capability because as a class with a very small (maybe the smallest?) number of options to press; almost all their skills should be on low CD's and active.Not sure that explains it well.

Warriors basically have 11 core skills (10 hotbar and F1) and SB/Berserker have 12. I believe of all the classes, this is the smallest number of accessible actions. I don't think the class warrants such a strong passive skill given the small number of actions it has access to and for management reasons.

I can also see why it has it; everyone familiar with RPG's knows about a warrior class, so maybe Anet built it to be an 'easy' entry class for all players.

It's strong compared to other passive heals.

I love mending now it's traited like a Phyical skill.On core warrior for roaming, with Strenght Spec : 6k healing, cleanse 3 conditions, +20% dmg (6sec), and all that every 12sec. I use too Rune of Brawler (and sigil of Battle=), with MMR it's really strong

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Hitman.5829 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:As much as I like HS, Warrior shouldn't have such a strong passive healing capability because as a class with a very small (maybe the smallest?) number of options to press; almost all their skills should be on low CD's and active.Not sure that explains it well.

Warriors basically have 11 core skills (10 hotbar and F1) and SB/Berserker have 12. I believe of all the classes, this is the smallest number of accessible actions. I don't think the class warrants such a strong passive skill given the small number of actions it has access to and for management reasons.

I can also see why it has it; everyone familiar with RPG's knows about a warrior class, so maybe Anet built it to be an 'easy' entry class for all players.

Such nonsense! The healing is 6880 and that is it.If you get a huge critical hit, you do not have the option to click your healing skill and heal back immediately. With HS you don't have that option!

True, it's not going to heal a burst, but then again, if someone is bursting you (and you let them), their goal is to finish you off anyways, or get you so far down that it's trivial to kill you.

Besides, other passive heals are much less, so it's not nonsense that compared to other passive heals, it's the best. That's an important distinction. I think the truth is that if you play like you have passive healing, you play different than you would active healing. if you don't, then of course it's a trash heal. This is a hard thing to prove but:

I would hypothesize that given a capable PVP player, their ability to adjust and play with a passive heal would benefit them more than an active one ... with the caveat that all heal skills only provide healing. That's a bold statement, given that I can't prove it or even argue the reasons why because heal skills AREN'T just about healing, some give other benefits. My only thinking to support that hypothesis is that it's one less thing a player needs to manage, making it simpler, freeing up time for fewer actions to choose from while maintaining the healing benefit.

@Obtena.7952 said:You keep mentioning passive heals as if they were some kind of overpower healing. You have not shown with numbers how healing signet is any better than the other healing from warrior. IF you scroll up, you will see the numbers I posted with ranking of best healing.

You kind of remind me of toddlers when they do their tantrums like this:Toddler 1: Daddy why is my brother getting 344 dollars per day while I get 6880 every 20 days? It is not fair daddy!Dad: Listern jimmy, you and your brother get the same amount of money and I can prove it to you. 344*20 = 6880 see jimmy you and your brother get the same money.Toddler 1: but daddy, my brother is getting more money, he gets 344 every day and I get only 6880 every 20 days. How is that fair, it is over power. How come he gets 344 every day and I get 0 money.

The discussion goes on and on like this because the toddler does not understand basic logic. So, just like the dad stops giving attention to the toddler, so will I. Sorry but I have spend so much time with this nonsense.

@Hitman.5829 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:You keep mentioning passive heals as if they were some kind of overpower healing. You have not shown with numbers how healing signet is any better than the other healing from warrior. IF you scroll up, you will see the numbers I posted with ranking of best healing.

No I'm not ... I've simply made a statement that HS is the most powerful passive healing skill. Not sure what you want from me here; tell you I'm lying to simply argue with you? If I go back in the discussion, it appears to me that it is you that is not acknowledging the value of passive skills. I've made no attempt to compare HS to active healing here ... but you have. If you love active healing, use it. I mean, I've given you some reason behind my thinking, the best counter you have is to compare me to a toddler /shrug.

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Hitman.5829 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:You keep mentioning passive heals as if they were some kind of overpower healing. You have not shown with numbers how healing signet is any better than the other healing from warrior. IF you scroll up, you will see the numbers I posted with ranking of best healing.

Passive healing or not, you get 6880 jimmy.The NET TOTAL healing is what counts.

@Hitman.5829 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Hitman.5829 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:You keep mentioning passive heals as if they were some kind of overpower healing. You have not shown with numbers how healing signet is any better than the other healing from warrior. IF you scroll up, you will see the numbers I posted with ranking of best healing.

/shrug again, depends how you play. Net total healing over time is really what counts here; there is more to the assessment of heals than what burst you can heal. Also, what other skills you get from using the heal. Looking at any skill in isolation doesn't really give a good idea of what it's capable of. I would even argue that it's going to be really hard for someone to burst you if they can't get you down to the health threshold where their burst kills you; that's what a passive HoT does for you.

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Hitman.5829 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:You keep mentioning passive heals as if they were some kind of overpower healing. You have not shown with numbers how healing signet is any better than the other healing from warrior. IF you scroll up, you will see the numbers I posted with ranking of best healing.

Its the strongest passive heal because the other classes with similar skills (Signet of Renewal, Signet of Courage, Virtue of Resolve) have other much more valuable heals or healing utilities than Warrior has nowhere near the kind of access to.

Ranger might get Signet of Renewal but it also has access to and almost primarily uses Troll Unguent and We Heal As One however Healing Spring can also be a somewhat viable option when used in conjunction with Druid. Druid itself has other heals outside of just its Heal skill when using their Celestial Avatar form paired with the quite impressive boon uptime that Rangers can achieve just in general across all of their specs (Core, Druid and Soulbeast).

Guardian has both Signet of Courage and Virtue of Resolve. Signet of Courage isn't all that great of an elite, definitely not worthwhile to take over Renewed Focus or Feel my Wrath, and in the case of Dragonhunter you would probably take Dragon's Maw (trap) over Signet of Courage. Guardian heals extend well beyond passive healing with Virtue of Resolve, which can get bumped up to a 315 heal every 3 seconds when traited, because of its access to Shelter, Receive the Light, Virtue of Resolve's active heal, Dragonhunter's Purification, or the Firebrands slew of other healing skills.

In Warrior's case they get active heals from no other sources. Mending can be a viable skill but Healing Signet is still generally preferred over it unless in specific circumstances on who you are fighting (not what class). You can trait for shout heals but the amount healed is negligible unless the Warrior builds healing power and that is nowhere near an ideal thing Warriors can do and there is really only 1 shout that is worthwhile to take in PvP which is better used for Stunbreaks and condi cleanses and not healing. One could trait for gaining regeneration from placed Banners but again one would need to use the appropriate stat set to make this worthwhile which would only reduce their offensive effectiveness. Outside of needing to trait and build stats specifically for healing, Warrior has no access to heals outside of Healing Signet and stacking Adrenal Health from actually landing their bursts. Warrior passive healing is strong, certainly, but that sustain relies almost entirely on the Warrior's ability to hit with, not just use, a Burst skill. There is an exception for Longbow in that you just need to drop Longbow's burst skill on the ground to gain Adrenal Health but I've only seen this work exceptionally well when I fought one Warrior and he was very good.

Don't overestimate passive healing without considering the circumstances behind how it is applied based around classes. It can be strong but not in the same way among different classes. Passive Healing is the best healing Warrior has access to while still being able to build to actually deal damage, every other class has access to active heals to accomplish this whereas Warrior does not. Warrior sustain also encourages a more aggressive playstyle, needing to sort of "trick" your opponent, if they are actually good, so that they don't dodge, block, invuln, blind, or evade your Burst skills. Warrior has some of the most telegraphed skills in the game and with their best sustain being locked behind needing to hit with these skills it can make things quite difficult for them when encountering actual good players.

I find in specific build both "to the limit" and "mending" superior.

If there a number of condition removal skills in the build adding Mending can put it over the top where a use of resistance never really needed. It also has a low ICD for spike heals. If there other heal sources in the build it just more efficient then signet.(Sun and moon + regen source Plus Adrenal Plus Might makes right is plenty of alternate heals) Granted this specific towards certain builds (condition) which rapidly disappear and or which can be neutralized via some of the new sigils (Cleansing as example).

To the limit provides an extra dodge. As example I use in one build via DE thief using rifle , I can quite easily dodge the DJ strikes and heal through the rest via various passives an to the limit when struck. The heal is fat as well . Warrior against a very bursty kiting spec will often find the passive of HS just does not do the job. 1K health per tick is not going to help a heck of a lo of the next hit coming in is unblockable and will do 10K+ when your healt sits at 6k.

To the limit+ Might makes right is an endurance engine and I feel the fatter heal and the extra dodges provided can more then make up for HS passive. Throw in the added adrenaline it provides and I get more chances at a burst as well.

Signet works better in the more drawn out fights where the opponent has less burst/kite ability.

If I had to rate the heals in very general terms . I would have them about where HITMAN rates them.

@babazhook.6805 said:To the limit provides an extra dodge. As example I use in one build via DE thief using rifle , I can quite easily dodge the DJ strikes and heal through the rest via various passives an to the limit when struck. The heal is fat as well . Warrior against a very bursty kiting spec will often find the passive of HS just does not do the job. 1K health per tick is not going to help a heck of a lo of the next hit coming in is unblockable and will do 10K+ when your healt sits at 6k.

Signet works better in the more drawn out fights where the opponent has less burst/kite ability.

First off, if you just save your dodges for when the DE uses DJ then you're going to be fine. Running Shield with Shield Master gives you the defense needed against Three Round Burst should the DE use it, the immob can be removed with movement abilities from GS (gs3 and gs5) or with Bull's Charge if you're running Core or Agriope's build with Spellbreaker. Otherwise you can use your dodges to avoid the DJ, you can easily have enough endurance available for them if you save the dodges for that and in dire circumstances you can actively use Endure Pain if Defy Pain passive is on ICD.

Secondly, Signet is an all around solid choice on Warrior. Sure there are stronger more active heals that can get you more health in a shorter span of time but don't forget that Warrior has some very good mobility, nothing compared to Mesmer, Thief or Ranger honestly, but still very good. Surviving against the burst builds means landing your Burst skills and building Adrenal Health stacks so that you can take advantage of the times when you have Endure Pain active, when you use block or when you kite and LoS the enemy around obstacles. You can even heal up some with Might Makes Right paired with Shield Master should you time it right against things like Rapid Fire, Mesmer shatter combos, Hundred Blades, Whirling Defense, Whirling Axe, etc; really any skill that hits multiple times in a short period of time.

The more you comment on Warrior the more I want to see you perform in a 1v1 or 1vX scenario in-game on the class because you say some weird stuff.

@KryTiKaL.3125 said:

@babazhook.6805 said:To the limit provides an extra dodge. As example I use in one build via DE thief using rifle , I can quite easily dodge the DJ strikes and heal through the rest via various passives an to the limit when struck. The heal is fat as well . Warrior against a very bursty kiting spec will often find the passive of HS just does not do the job. 1K health per tick is not going to help a heck of a lo of the next hit coming in is unblockable and will do 10K+ when your healt sits at 6k.

Signet works better in the more drawn out fights where the opponent has less burst/kite ability.

I play what works for me. If you think it wierd it your problem. You play what works for you. As far as I can tell the difference between you and me is I play three variants of warrior each with a different loadout of weapons traits and skills. In one of them HS works best. In the other two not so much. I do not play one build that rules them all pulled off metabattle.

Thank you all for your responses thus far, it's been a great help!