What does necro 'dread' trait scale off? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

What does necro 'dread' trait scale off?

Because it doesn't appear to do 33% more dmg to feared targets as listed. I've been testing it for awhile in the PvP lobby using a power build and reaper shroud 3 fear + reaper shroud 5. It seems to only do about 20% more to a feared target. The results are so poor I'm wondering if this trait scales off BASE power or what?

Comments

  • rng.1024rng.1024 Member ✭✭✭✭

    We need a little more info:

    • What weapon do you have equipped in the main hand before you enter shroud?
      (As this determines interval size)

    • Are you always hitting a full health golem? (Since shroud 5 scales differently depending on health)

    Some quick math already tells us that:
    (1000x1000x1)/2597=385,06 mid
    (1000x1100x1)/2597=423,57 top
    385,06/423,57=0,91
    This goes to show that a regular ascended axe already have a 18% range within hits where damage can fluctuate, the more modifiers you got the wider this gap can become (which on necro you have alot of).

    Another factor is how some traits seem only to scale of specific bonuses (mostly armor), this might be rendering some of your damage non-existent. The wiki isn't always completely up to date with these conditions at all times.

    Not to forget you apply 10 stacks of vulnerability by default. Let's see what happens:
    2597×0,9=2337,3
    Now assume zerker trinket, no rune, crit:
    Regular:
    (2200×1000*1)/2597=847×2,1=1779
    Applied vuln/dmg:
    (2200×1000×1)/2337=941×(2,1×1,33)
    =2628 dmg

    1779/2628~68, 100-68= 32% less

    You might be thinking "Hey with the vulnerability and 33% mod shouldn't this number be 43%?!". Well no, that's just not how multiplicative modifiers work, especially in the way damage is divided by armor in this equation. So the natural question becomes why do you see only 20% increase?

    Let us know what amulet/sigils and other traits you run with (pref a build quick link), as I'm assuming you either run expertise gear or the +fear duration trait given shroud 5 takes longer to cast than the fear from shroud 3 lasts.

    Also remember these modifiers usually only affect power damage, meaning if you use conditions to measure dps increase then you will only see the vulnerability+f.ex bleeds given by "Deathly Chill trait".

  • Khisanth.2948Khisanth.2948 Member ✭✭✭✭

    ... 20% of what? 20%(or pretty much any value below 33%) average increase isn't all that surprising. It will depend on your fear uptime. Then there is the time spent applying fear instead of harder hitting skills.

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Well yeah. Dread was bugged.
    Don't know if it's still bugged.
    Should be a 33% dmg boost to power damage against the target

  • Sinful.2165Sinful.2165 Member ✭✭✭

    @rng.1024 said:
    We need a little more info:

    • What weapon do you have equipped in the main hand before you enter shroud?
      (As this determines interval size)

    • Are you always hitting a full health golem? (Since shroud 5 scales differently depending on health)

    Some quick math already tells us that:
    (1000x1000x1)/2597=385,06 mid
    (1000x1100x1)/2597=423,57 top
    385,06/423,57=0,91
    This goes to show that a regular ascended axe already have a 18% range within hits where damage can fluctuate, the more modifiers you got the wider this gap can become (which on necro you have alot of).

    Another factor is how some traits seem only to scale of specific bonuses (mostly armor), this might be rendering some of your damage non-existent. The wiki isn't always completely up to date with these conditions at all times.

    Not to forget you apply 10 stacks of vulnerability by default. Let's see what happens:
    2597×0,9=2337,3
    Now assume zerker trinket, no rune, crit:
    Regular:
    (2200×1000*1)/2597=847×2,1=1779
    Applied vuln/dmg:
    (2200×1000×1)/2337=941×(2,1×1,33)
    =2628 dmg

    1779/2628~68, 100-68= 32% less

    You might be thinking "Hey with the vulnerability and 33% mod shouldn't this number be 43%?!". Well no, that's just not how multiplicative modifiers work, especially in the way damage is divided by armor in this equation. So the natural question becomes why do you see only 20% increase?

    Let us know what amulet/sigils and other traits you run with (pref a build quick link), as I'm assuming you either run expertise gear or the +fear duration trait given shroud 5 takes longer to cast than the fear from shroud 3 lasts.

    Also remember these modifiers usually only affect power damage, meaning if you use conditions to measure dps increase then you will only see the vulnerability+f.ex bleeds given by "Deathly Chill trait".

    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNBHhF6kkGonGsmGwlGgeTsULYRhtMQJAqrFAmBxdxy4aE-jpABBAw+DfZAA

    Granted, I'll state now my test wasn't as controlled as possible. This is the build I used - the perma quickness in reaper shroud from reaper's onslaught allowed me to do RS3 fear to RS5 within the fear window.

    My test was on a heavy golem, I'd reaper shroud and then RS3 twice for the fear followed by RS5 on a full health golem. I'd check my log, finish the golem off to get life force and then try again. I was consistantly seeing a 600~ dmg increase on RS5 w/ dread traited but according to my admittedly terrible maths it should have been closer to 950~ dmg increase.

  • rng.1024rng.1024 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sinful.2165 said:

    @rng.1024 said:
    We need a little more info:

    • What weapon do you have equipped in the main hand before you enter shroud?
      (As this determines interval size)

    • Are you always hitting a full health golem? (Since shroud 5 scales differently depending on health)

    Some quick math already tells us that:
    (1000x1000x1)/2597=385,06 mid
    (1000x1100x1)/2597=423,57 top
    385,06/423,57=0,91
    This goes to show that a regular ascended axe already have a 18% range within hits where damage can fluctuate, the more modifiers you got the wider this gap can become (which on necro you have alot of).

    Another factor is how some traits seem only to scale of specific bonuses (mostly armor), this might be rendering some of your damage non-existent. The wiki isn't always completely up to date with these conditions at all times.

    Not to forget you apply 10 stacks of vulnerability by default. Let's see what happens:
    2597×0,9=2337,3
    Now assume zerker trinket, no rune, crit:
    Regular:
    (2200×1000*1)/2597=847×2,1=1779
    Applied vuln/dmg:
    (2200×1000×1)/2337=941×(2,1×1,33)
    =2628 dmg

    1779/2628~68, 100-68= 32% less

    You might be thinking "Hey with the vulnerability and 33% mod shouldn't this number be 43%?!". Well no, that's just not how multiplicative modifiers work, especially in the way damage is divided by armor in this equation. So the natural question becomes why do you see only 20% increase?

    Let us know what amulet/sigils and other traits you run with (pref a build quick link), as I'm assuming you either run expertise gear or the +fear duration trait given shroud 5 takes longer to cast than the fear from shroud 3 lasts.

    Also remember these modifiers usually only affect power damage, meaning if you use conditions to measure dps increase then you will only see the vulnerability+f.ex bleeds given by "Deathly Chill trait".

    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNBHhF6kkGonGsmGwlGgeTsULYRhtMQJAqrFAmBxdxy4aE-jpABBAw+DfZAA

    Granted, I'll state now my test wasn't as controlled as possible. This is the build I used - the perma quickness in reaper shroud from reaper's onslaught allowed me to do RS3 fear to RS5 within the fear window.

    My test was on a heavy golem, I'd reaper shroud and then RS3 twice for the fear followed by RS5 on a full health golem. I'd check my log, finish the golem off to get life force and then try again. I was consistantly seeing a 600~ dmg increase on RS5 w/ dread traited but according to my admittedly terrible maths it should have been closer to 950~ dmg increase.

    On my phone atm, so too much work checking the build xD

    As far as I can see you've done it controlled enough, maybe try:

    • Using a full condi amulet (like Rabid) to simulate a non-gear scenario
    • Equip unused traitlines except the one with Dread trait (avoid Bitter Chill)
    • Use only sigils that don't affect anything (like Agony)
    • Only compare non-crits for more reliable data
    • Make sure no one else around buffs you before the attempt

    Whether or not this changes numbers will narrow the cause down, as in this scenario you should see a 33% increase within your weapon strength interval.

    To determine this you just need power and weapon type:
    (1000(base power)×weap strength min×2.0(shroud skill 5 coeff))/2337(heavy armor golem with 10 vuln stacks). Multiply this value by 1,33 and you should NEVER see a non-crit value below that.

    You can do the same for weap strength max to get the highest number you should see. Anything beyond these 2 non-crit values means something fishy is going on. Since the weap range ranges from 100-200 about, you should do quite a few tries if you have the time for a decent sample.

    I am intrigued now, might do some testing of my own tomorrow =)

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @rng.1024 said:

    @Sinful.2165 said:

    @rng.1024 said:
    We need a little more info:

    • What weapon do you have equipped in the main hand before you enter shroud?
      (As this determines interval size)

    • Are you always hitting a full health golem? (Since shroud 5 scales differently depending on health)

    Some quick math already tells us that:
    (1000x1000x1)/2597=385,06 mid
    (1000x1100x1)/2597=423,57 top
    385,06/423,57=0,91
    This goes to show that a regular ascended axe already have a 18% range within hits where damage can fluctuate, the more modifiers you got the wider this gap can become (which on necro you have alot of).

    Another factor is how some traits seem only to scale of specific bonuses (mostly armor), this might be rendering some of your damage non-existent. The wiki isn't always completely up to date with these conditions at all times.

    Not to forget you apply 10 stacks of vulnerability by default. Let's see what happens:
    2597×0,9=2337,3
    Now assume zerker trinket, no rune, crit:
    Regular:
    (2200×1000*1)/2597=847×2,1=1779
    Applied vuln/dmg:
    (2200×1000×1)/2337=941×(2,1×1,33)
    =2628 dmg

    1779/2628~68, 100-68= 32% less

    You might be thinking "Hey with the vulnerability and 33% mod shouldn't this number be 43%?!". Well no, that's just not how multiplicative modifiers work, especially in the way damage is divided by armor in this equation. So the natural question becomes why do you see only 20% increase?

    Let us know what amulet/sigils and other traits you run with (pref a build quick link), as I'm assuming you either run expertise gear or the +fear duration trait given shroud 5 takes longer to cast than the fear from shroud 3 lasts.

    Also remember these modifiers usually only affect power damage, meaning if you use conditions to measure dps increase then you will only see the vulnerability+f.ex bleeds given by "Deathly Chill trait".

    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNBHhF6kkGonGsmGwlGgeTsULYRhtMQJAqrFAmBxdxy4aE-jpABBAw+DfZAA

    Granted, I'll state now my test wasn't as controlled as possible. This is the build I used - the perma quickness in reaper shroud from reaper's onslaught allowed me to do RS3 fear to RS5 within the fear window.

    My test was on a heavy golem, I'd reaper shroud and then RS3 twice for the fear followed by RS5 on a full health golem. I'd check my log, finish the golem off to get life force and then try again. I was consistantly seeing a 600~ dmg increase on RS5 w/ dread traited but according to my admittedly terrible maths it should have been closer to 950~ dmg increase.

    On my phone atm, so too much work checking the build xD

    As far as I can see you've done it controlled enough, maybe try:

    • Using a full condi amulet (like Rabid) to simulate a non-gear scenario
    • Equip unused traitlines except the one with Dread trait (avoid Bitter Chill)
    • Use only sigils that don't affect anything (like Agony)
    • Only compare non-crits for more reliable data
    • Make sure no one else around buffs you before the attempt

    Whether or not this changes numbers will narrow the cause down, as in this scenario you should see a 33% increase within your weapon strength interval.

    To determine this you just need power and weapon type:
    (1000(base power)×weap strength min×2.0(shroud skill 5 coeff))/2337(heavy armor golem with 10 vuln stacks). Multiply this value by 1,33 and you should NEVER see a non-crit value below that.

    You can do the same for weap strength max to get the highest number you should see. Anything beyond these 2 non-crit values means something fishy is going on. Since the weap range ranges from 100-200 about, you should do quite a few tries if you have the time for a decent sample.

    I am intrigued now, might do some testing of my own tomorrow =)

    You can go to golem test room. Put permanent fear on enemy.
    Then unequip everything except a staff with no power stats (thoughness,vita, Condi dmg for example). Staff because it doesn't give might or vulnerability.

    Just autoattack for a certain amount of autoattacks. Maybe 20.
    Then do the same thing with only dread traited.

    Afterwards compare those dmg numbers you get

  • rng.1024rng.1024 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Nimon.7840 said:

    @rng.1024 said:

    @Sinful.2165 said:

    @rng.1024 said:
    We need a little more info:

    • What weapon do you have equipped in the main hand before you enter shroud?
      (As this determines interval size)

    • Are you always hitting a full health golem? (Since shroud 5 scales differently depending on health)

    Some quick math already tells us that:
    (1000x1000x1)/2597=385,06 mid
    (1000x1100x1)/2597=423,57 top
    385,06/423,57=0,91
    This goes to show that a regular ascended axe already have a 18% range within hits where damage can fluctuate, the more modifiers you got the wider this gap can become (which on necro you have alot of).

    Another factor is how some traits seem only to scale of specific bonuses (mostly armor), this might be rendering some of your damage non-existent. The wiki isn't always completely up to date with these conditions at all times.

    Not to forget you apply 10 stacks of vulnerability by default. Let's see what happens:
    2597×0,9=2337,3
    Now assume zerker trinket, no rune, crit:
    Regular:
    (2200×1000*1)/2597=847×2,1=1779
    Applied vuln/dmg:
    (2200×1000×1)/2337=941×(2,1×1,33)
    =2628 dmg

    1779/2628~68, 100-68= 32% less

    You might be thinking "Hey with the vulnerability and 33% mod shouldn't this number be 43%?!". Well no, that's just not how multiplicative modifiers work, especially in the way damage is divided by armor in this equation. So the natural question becomes why do you see only 20% increase?

    Let us know what amulet/sigils and other traits you run with (pref a build quick link), as I'm assuming you either run expertise gear or the +fear duration trait given shroud 5 takes longer to cast than the fear from shroud 3 lasts.

    Also remember these modifiers usually only affect power damage, meaning if you use conditions to measure dps increase then you will only see the vulnerability+f.ex bleeds given by "Deathly Chill trait".

    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNBHhF6kkGonGsmGwlGgeTsULYRhtMQJAqrFAmBxdxy4aE-jpABBAw+DfZAA

    Granted, I'll state now my test wasn't as controlled as possible. This is the build I used - the perma quickness in reaper shroud from reaper's onslaught allowed me to do RS3 fear to RS5 within the fear window.

    My test was on a heavy golem, I'd reaper shroud and then RS3 twice for the fear followed by RS5 on a full health golem. I'd check my log, finish the golem off to get life force and then try again. I was consistantly seeing a 600~ dmg increase on RS5 w/ dread traited but according to my admittedly terrible maths it should have been closer to 950~ dmg increase.

    On my phone atm, so too much work checking the build xD

    As far as I can see you've done it controlled enough, maybe try:

    • Using a full condi amulet (like Rabid) to simulate a non-gear scenario
    • Equip unused traitlines except the one with Dread trait (avoid Bitter Chill)
    • Use only sigils that don't affect anything (like Agony)
    • Only compare non-crits for more reliable data
    • Make sure no one else around buffs you before the attempt

    Whether or not this changes numbers will narrow the cause down, as in this scenario you should see a 33% increase within your weapon strength interval.

    To determine this you just need power and weapon type:
    (1000(base power)×weap strength min×2.0(shroud skill 5 coeff))/2337(heavy armor golem with 10 vuln stacks). Multiply this value by 1,33 and you should NEVER see a non-crit value below that.

    You can do the same for weap strength max to get the highest number you should see. Anything beyond these 2 non-crit values means something fishy is going on. Since the weap range ranges from 100-200 about, you should do quite a few tries if you have the time for a decent sample.

    I am intrigued now, might do some testing of my own tomorrow =)

    You can go to golem test room. Put permanent fear on enemy.
    Then unequip everything except a staff with no power stats (thoughness,vita, Condi dmg for example). Staff because it doesn't give might or vulnerability.

    Just autoattack for a certain amount of autoattacks. Maybe 20.
    Then do the same thing with only dread traited.

    Afterwards compare those dmg numbers you get

    Great suggestion! Since the weapon strength interval usually is about 200, meaning every number has a 0,5% chance to proc the ideal would be atleast 200 AA's. Even better yet is to use the wiki method, where you autoattack it for an hour or so with only the base crit chance.

    I'm not to familiar with the golem test room, but sure will give it a go today! :)

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