List of Problem Traits/Skills + Possible Solutions (In-Depth) - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

List of Problem Traits/Skills + Possible Solutions (In-Depth)

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  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Dante.1763 said:
    I know alot of pvpers dont really care about what happens in PVE(the hard core ones at least), but some of the proposed ranger changes would make it really hard to be wanted in a group on ranger again :(

    Considering most pugs haven't realised that 2 druids is one of the dumbest things to run in nearly all encounters I don't think rangers are in danger just yet. Even on the more "elitist" end where they ask for full meta comps and a billion LI they have at least 1 ranger in every raid group.

    Here's the blunt truth though, the game needs a 20% damage reduction across the board. PvP, WvW, PvE the whole lot on every class while doing something similar to defensive cool downs and sustain. You can then adjust boss health if needed so it keeps the same time to kill as before the damage reductions so nothing really changes for PvE except you hit for a few hundred less on your 7k crits.

    Why? It solves a lot of issues with power creep and future problems with new traits/skill interactions keeping this level of power creep and helps curb invalidating older content.

    A 20% damage reduction across the board seems like a fantastic way to introduce another bunker meta.

    Damage AND survivability have been increased over time. Nerfing one without the other will cause a lot of issues. Also, flat % nerfs isn't a good way to do it either.

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 3, 2018

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Dante.1763 said:
    I know alot of pvpers dont really care about what happens in PVE(the hard core ones at least), but some of the proposed ranger changes would make it really hard to be wanted in a group on ranger again :(

    Considering most pugs haven't realised that 2 druids is one of the dumbest things to run in nearly all encounters I don't think rangers are in danger just yet. Even on the more "elitist" end where they ask for full meta comps and a billion LI they have at least 1 ranger in every raid group.

    Here's the blunt truth though, the game needs a 20% damage reduction across the board. PvP, WvW, PvE the whole lot on every class while doing something similar to defensive cool downs and sustain. You can then adjust boss health if needed so it keeps the same time to kill as before the damage reductions so nothing really changes for PvE except you hit for a few hundred less on your 7k crits.

    Why? It solves a lot of issues with power creep and future problems with new traits/skill interactions keeping this level of power creep and helps curb invalidating older content.

    A 20% damage reduction across the board seems like a fantastic way to introduce another bunker meta.

    Damage AND survivability have been increased over time. Nerfing one without the other will cause a lot of issues. Also, flat % nerfs isn't a good way to do it either.

    Put in bold the part you skimmed over, post was edited to add clarification to what I already implied via the bold text.

    Edit: Also lol at this bunker meta excuse, damage atm is FAR TOO HIGH, you could happily hack away 20% off all damage and we wouldn't get bunker.

  • Dante.1763Dante.1763 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Dante.1763 said:
    I know alot of pvpers dont really care about what happens in PVE(the hard core ones at least), but some of the proposed ranger changes would make it really hard to be wanted in a group on ranger again :(

    Considering most pugs haven't realised that 2 druids is one of the dumbest things to run in nearly all encounters I don't think rangers are in danger just yet. Even on the more "elitist" end where they ask for full meta comps and a billion LI they have at least 1 ranger in every raid group.

    Here's the blunt truth though, the game needs a 20% damage reduction across the board. PvP, WvW, PvE the whole lot on every class while doing something similar to defensive cool downs and sustain. You can then adjust boss health if needed so it keeps the same time to kill as before the damage reductions so nothing really changes for PvE except you hit for a few hundred less on your 7k crits.

    Why? It solves a lot of issues with power creep and future problems with new traits/skill interactions keeping this level of power creep and helps curb invalidating older content.

    Edit: To clarify 20% increase to cool downs on defensive skills, 20% reduction to sustained healing/defensive boon duration. Obviously 20% damage reduction can also include longer cool downs, reducing offensive boon access and duration as well as straight damage modifier reduction.

    Ah, see i dont run druids, i run a Condi SB(so i dont see 7k crits, ever, Condis already do way less DPS now, and thanks to the invuln change they arent wanted anymore cause they do less DPS overall, imagine that..) for my raid group, and to even be able to be allowed in any of the groups im a part of i need those skills up there as they are now The Elite Skill for example is one the most major components of my build, the extra group damage it does is a massive boon that my build offers, and if its duration got reduced, id be replaced with another person entirely until i could come up with another class which just isnt possible for me.

    So, if you just change the skills and at the same time dont change the bosses(this would need to be done) classes /would/ get kicked out of content again, which is terrible.

    I do agree the powercreep is bad, but unless they do a total balance overhaul of the entire game, any changes arent going to be to great overall.

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Dante.1763 said:
    I know alot of pvpers dont really care about what happens in PVE(the hard core ones at least), but some of the proposed ranger changes would make it really hard to be wanted in a group on ranger again :(

    Considering most pugs haven't realised that 2 druids is one of the dumbest things to run in nearly all encounters I don't think rangers are in danger just yet. Even on the more "elitist" end where they ask for full meta comps and a billion LI they have at least 1 ranger in every raid group.

    Here's the blunt truth though, the game needs a 20% damage reduction across the board. PvP, WvW, PvE the whole lot on every class while doing something similar to defensive cool downs and sustain. You can then adjust boss health if needed so it keeps the same time to kill as before the damage reductions so nothing really changes for PvE except you hit for a few hundred less on your 7k crits.

    Why? It solves a lot of issues with power creep and future problems with new traits/skill interactions keeping this level of power creep and helps curb invalidating older content.

    A 20% damage reduction across the board seems like a fantastic way to introduce another bunker meta.

    Damage AND survivability have been increased over time. Nerfing one without the other will cause a lot of issues. Also, flat % nerfs isn't a good way to do it either.

    Put in bold the part you skimmed over, post was edited to add clarification to what I already implied via the bold text.

    Edit: Also lol at this bunker meta excuse, damage atm is FAR TOO HIGH, you could happily hack away 20% off all damage and we wouldn't get bunker.

    I agree for PVP and WvW you could for sure reduce the amount of damage by up to 20% and it would make the game alot more fun.

    decided not to remove qoutes since i was addressing two different points

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  • Ruufio.1496Ruufio.1496 Member ✭✭✭

    When was flanking strike made to be unblockable anyway? Where did my game go with only having to avoid larcenous strike? Of course flanking strike shouldn't be unblockable - neither should mirror blade be unblockable which was only made unblockable because reflect could turn someone into a tornado, neither should spear of justice be unblockable or a ton of other things.

    All damage, healing, debilitating conditions, amount of abilities per trait and cooldowns need to be decreased by 50% (cooldowns increased by 50%) Every patch for years you would see "decreased cooldown by xx" what a joke. We need vanilla gw2 with the bug fixes. Though... I do love my scrapper.

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Dante.1763 said:
    I know alot of pvpers dont really care about what happens in PVE(the hard core ones at least), but some of the proposed ranger changes would make it really hard to be wanted in a group on ranger again :(

    Considering most pugs haven't realised that 2 druids is one of the dumbest things to run in nearly all encounters I don't think rangers are in danger just yet. Even on the more "elitist" end where they ask for full meta comps and a billion LI they have at least 1 ranger in every raid group.

    Here's the blunt truth though, the game needs a 20% damage reduction across the board. PvP, WvW, PvE the whole lot on every class while doing something similar to defensive cool downs and sustain. You can then adjust boss health if needed so it keeps the same time to kill as before the damage reductions so nothing really changes for PvE except you hit for a few hundred less on your 7k crits.

    Why? It solves a lot of issues with power creep and future problems with new traits/skill interactions keeping this level of power creep and helps curb invalidating older content.

    A 20% damage reduction across the board seems like a fantastic way to introduce another bunker meta.

    Damage AND survivability have been increased over time. Nerfing one without the other will cause a lot of issues. Also, flat % nerfs isn't a good way to do it either.

    Put in bold the part you skimmed over, post was edited to add clarification to what I already implied via the bold text.

    Edit: Also lol at this bunker meta excuse, damage atm is FAR TOO HIGH, you could happily hack away 20% off all damage and we wouldn't get bunker.

    Survivability is also too high.

    Answer these please:

    1. Are Soulbeasts easy to kill?
    2. Are Holosmiths easy to kill?
    3. Are Spellbreakers easy to kill?
    4. Are Mirages easy to kill?
    5. Are Firebrands easy to kill?

    etc. etc.

    In case you didn't realize, nerfing damage by 20% would make them even harder to kill. And, since 2+2=4, if you can't kill anything, you get a bunker meta where nothing dies.

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Dante.1763 said:
    I know alot of pvpers dont really care about what happens in PVE(the hard core ones at least), but some of the proposed ranger changes would make it really hard to be wanted in a group on ranger again :(

    Considering most pugs haven't realised that 2 druids is one of the dumbest things to run in nearly all encounters I don't think rangers are in danger just yet. Even on the more "elitist" end where they ask for full meta comps and a billion LI they have at least 1 ranger in every raid group.

    Here's the blunt truth though, the game needs a 20% damage reduction across the board. PvP, WvW, PvE the whole lot on every class while doing something similar to defensive cool downs and sustain. You can then adjust boss health if needed so it keeps the same time to kill as before the damage reductions so nothing really changes for PvE except you hit for a few hundred less on your 7k crits.

    Why? It solves a lot of issues with power creep and future problems with new traits/skill interactions keeping this level of power creep and helps curb invalidating older content.

    A 20% damage reduction across the board seems like a fantastic way to introduce another bunker meta.

    Damage AND survivability have been increased over time. Nerfing one without the other will cause a lot of issues. Also, flat % nerfs isn't a good way to do it either.

    Put in bold the part you skimmed over, post was edited to add clarification to what I already implied via the bold text.

    Edit: Also lol at this bunker meta excuse, damage atm is FAR TOO HIGH, you could happily hack away 20% off all damage and we wouldn't get bunker.

    You realize it was only May when Chronobunkers were unkillable monsters and the only reason they left the meta was because their damage was heavily reduced to appropriate levels given their survivability. Heck Boonbeast right now is an almost unkillable monsters.

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  • I'd like to see daggerstorm bring unable to have it's cooldown reset by improvisation. That's the only fix I'd think it's necessary

    ~ God Tier Guardian

  • babazhook.6805babazhook.6805 Member ✭✭✭✭

    One issue I see is people tend to believe there a 1 to 1 comparison of damage versus defenses and sustain. That not the case. Damage HAS to always be larger then the various defensive tools or a kill will never be made. When you are talking about damage at the top end you are talking builds that tend to sacrifice for that damage. When you cut back the peak damage out and do so on a 1v1 basis then those persons who sacrifice defense for offense no longer gain enough advantahge to make it worthwhile. This leads them to survival mode which means bunker meta no one dying.

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dante.1763 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Dante.1763 said:
    I know alot of pvpers dont really care about what happens in PVE(the hard core ones at least), but some of the proposed ranger changes would make it really hard to be wanted in a group on ranger again :(

    Considering most pugs haven't realised that 2 druids is one of the dumbest things to run in nearly all encounters I don't think rangers are in danger just yet. Even on the more "elitist" end where they ask for full meta comps and a billion LI they have at least 1 ranger in every raid group.

    Here's the blunt truth though, the game needs a 20% damage reduction across the board. PvP, WvW, PvE the whole lot on every class while doing something similar to defensive cool downs and sustain. You can then adjust boss health if needed so it keeps the same time to kill as before the damage reductions so nothing really changes for PvE except you hit for a few hundred less on your 7k crits.

    Why? It solves a lot of issues with power creep and future problems with new traits/skill interactions keeping this level of power creep and helps curb invalidating older content.

    Edit: To clarify 20% increase to cool downs on defensive skills, 20% reduction to sustained healing/defensive boon duration. Obviously 20% damage reduction can also include longer cool downs, reducing offensive boon access and duration as well as straight damage modifier reduction.

    Ah, see i dont run druids, i run a Condi SB(so i dont see 7k crits, ever, Condis already do way less DPS now, and thanks to the invuln change they arent wanted anymore cause they do less DPS overall, imagine that..) for my raid group, and to even be able to be allowed in any of the groups im a part of i need those skills up there as they are now The Elite Skill for example is one the most major components of my build, the extra group damage it does is a massive boon that my build offers, and if its duration got reduced, id be replaced with another person entirely until i could come up with another class which just isnt possible for me.

    So, if you just change the skills and at the same time dont change the bosses(this would need to be done) classes /would/ get kicked out of content again, which is terrible.

    I do agree the powercreep is bad, but unless they do a total balance overhaul of the entire game, any changes arent going to be to great overall.

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Dante.1763 said:
    I know alot of pvpers dont really care about what happens in PVE(the hard core ones at least), but some of the proposed ranger changes would make it really hard to be wanted in a group on ranger again :(

    Considering most pugs haven't realised that 2 druids is one of the dumbest things to run in nearly all encounters I don't think rangers are in danger just yet. Even on the more "elitist" end where they ask for full meta comps and a billion LI they have at least 1 ranger in every raid group.

    Here's the blunt truth though, the game needs a 20% damage reduction across the board. PvP, WvW, PvE the whole lot on every class while doing something similar to defensive cool downs and sustain. You can then adjust boss health if needed so it keeps the same time to kill as before the damage reductions so nothing really changes for PvE except you hit for a few hundred less on your 7k crits.

    Why? It solves a lot of issues with power creep and future problems with new traits/skill interactions keeping this level of power creep and helps curb invalidating older content.

    A 20% damage reduction across the board seems like a fantastic way to introduce another bunker meta.

    Damage AND survivability have been increased over time. Nerfing one without the other will cause a lot of issues. Also, flat % nerfs isn't a good way to do it either.

    Put in bold the part you skimmed over, post was edited to add clarification to what I already implied via the bold text.

    Edit: Also lol at this bunker meta excuse, damage atm is FAR TOO HIGH, you could happily hack away 20% off all damage and we wouldn't get bunker.

    I agree for PVP and WvW you could for sure reduce the amount of damage by up to 20% and it would make the game alot more fun.

    decided not to remove qoutes since i was addressing two different points

    @Dante.1763 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Dante.1763 said:
    I know alot of pvpers dont really care about what happens in PVE(the hard core ones at least), but some of the proposed ranger changes would make it really hard to be wanted in a group on ranger again :(

    Considering most pugs haven't realised that 2 druids is one of the dumbest things to run in nearly all encounters I don't think rangers are in danger just yet. Even on the more "elitist" end where they ask for full meta comps and a billion LI they have at least 1 ranger in every raid group.

    Here's the blunt truth though, the game needs a 20% damage reduction across the board. PvP, WvW, PvE the whole lot on every class while doing something similar to defensive cool downs and sustain. You can then adjust boss health if needed so it keeps the same time to kill as before the damage reductions so nothing really changes for PvE except you hit for a few hundred less on your 7k crits.

    Why? It solves a lot of issues with power creep and future problems with new traits/skill interactions keeping this level of power creep and helps curb invalidating older content.

    Edit: To clarify 20% increase to cool downs on defensive skills, 20% reduction to sustained healing/defensive boon duration. Obviously 20% damage reduction can also include longer cool downs, reducing offensive boon access and duration as well as straight damage modifier reduction.

    Ah, see i dont run druids, i run a Condi SB(so i dont see 7k crits, ever, Condis already do way less DPS now, and thanks to the invuln change they arent wanted anymore cause they do less DPS overall, imagine that..) for my raid group, and to even be able to be allowed in any of the groups im a part of i need those skills up there as they are now The Elite Skill for example is one the most major components of my build, the extra group damage it does is a massive boon that my build offers, and if its duration got reduced, id be replaced with another person entirely until i could come up with another class which just isnt possible for me.

    So, if you just change the skills and at the same time dont change the bosses(this would need to be done) classes /would/ get kicked out of content again, which is terrible.

    I do agree the powercreep is bad, but unless they do a total balance overhaul of the entire game, any changes arent going to be to great overall.

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Dante.1763 said:
    I know alot of pvpers dont really care about what happens in PVE(the hard core ones at least), but some of the proposed ranger changes would make it really hard to be wanted in a group on ranger again :(

    Considering most pugs haven't realised that 2 druids is one of the dumbest things to run in nearly all encounters I don't think rangers are in danger just yet. Even on the more "elitist" end where they ask for full meta comps and a billion LI they have at least 1 ranger in every raid group.

    Here's the blunt truth though, the game needs a 20% damage reduction across the board. PvP, WvW, PvE the whole lot on every class while doing something similar to defensive cool downs and sustain. You can then adjust boss health if needed so it keeps the same time to kill as before the damage reductions so nothing really changes for PvE except you hit for a few hundred less on your 7k crits.

    Why? It solves a lot of issues with power creep and future problems with new traits/skill interactions keeping this level of power creep and helps curb invalidating older content.

    A 20% damage reduction across the board seems like a fantastic way to introduce another bunker meta.

    Damage AND survivability have been increased over time. Nerfing one without the other will cause a lot of issues. Also, flat % nerfs isn't a good way to do it either.

    Put in bold the part you skimmed over, post was edited to add clarification to what I already implied via the bold text.

    Edit: Also lol at this bunker meta excuse, damage atm is FAR TOO HIGH, you could happily hack away 20% off all damage and we wouldn't get bunker.

    I agree for PVP and WvW you could for sure reduce the amount of damage by up to 20% and it would make the game alot more fun.

    decided not to remove qoutes since i was addressing two different points

    Power and condition soulbeast is acceptable in any raid that is not in a competition or going for a record run if played well (just like any class) and will not make your group fail. Almost any build you can make work at an acceptable level, yes even core mesmer is capable of ~20k which is more than enough to clear raids fast and with no risk.

    It's fine, I understand.

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 3, 2018

    @babazhook.6805 said:
    One issue I see is people tend to believe there a 1 to 1 comparison of damage versus defenses and sustain. That not the case. Damage HAS to always be larger then the various defensive tools or a kill will never be made. When you are talking about damage at the top end you are talking builds that tend to sacrifice for that damage. When you cut back the peak damage out and do so on a 1v1 basis then those persons who sacrifice defense for offense no longer gain enough advantahge to make it worthwhile. This leads them to survival mode which means bunker meta no one dying.

    This would be fine if these builds were going all in on damage or were actually taking damage lines like most mesmer/thief builds. However you have builds like holo and soulbeast where they take no damage lines and have 2-3 defensive skills while having several passive proc defences doing the same damage as builds taking damage lines. By in large they aren't sacrificing servivability for damage, they're straight up getting more and more utility which translate to increasing both.

    This is however why I said nerfing damage, healing and defences in my orginal post. I still think you could (if you wanted I personally would advocate a more varied approach and as stated defense+sustain as well) do a flat -20% damage done to players and you'd not end up with a bunker meta, nothing atm can survive 2v1 for very long.

  • Chaith.8256Chaith.8256 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Holo Leap is 450 movement skill, 600 range attack. You might wanna edit your commentary on that skill

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  • Bigpapasmurf.5623Bigpapasmurf.5623 Member ✭✭✭✭

    As a Mirage main, I can agree with everything mentioned for the mentioned classes, however there are more classes that need to be mentioned.

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  • Hyper Cutter.9376Hyper Cutter.9376 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Dante.1763 said:
    I know alot of pvpers dont really care about what happens in PVE(the hard core ones at least), but some of the proposed ranger changes would make it really hard to be wanted in a group on ranger again :(

    Hi! Skill splits between gamemodes would prevent PvE from being affected. ^-^

    Because that worked so well every time a pet got nerfed because of PVP whining...

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 3, 2018

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    Mesmer

    Ineptitude

    • Problem: Combined with Blinding Dissipation, the confusion and blind application Mirage has access to is extremely oppressive.
    • Solution: Reduce the confusion per blind to 1 stack.

    Duelist’s Discipline

    • Problem: Combined with Sharper Images, this trait means that Phantasmal Duelist alone can apply anywhere from 8-16 stacks of long-duration bleeding. Also, coupled with Mirage’s exceptionally high access to CC’s, this means that pistol skills can recharge nearly instantly.
    • Solution: Currently, this trait bleeds on EVERY hit from pistol attacks from you and your illusions. Instead, change this to 33% chance to bleed on CRITICAL hits like most other bleeding-related traits. Also, remove the 25% cooldown reduction on interrupt and make it a flat 20% cooldown reduction on pistol skills.

    Sharper Images

    • Problem: Again, this trait is 100% chance on critical hits to apply a 5-8 second bleed (Carrion vs. Deadshot amulet). This results in insane amounts of bleeding stacks with little effort on the mesmer’s part.
    • Solution: Similar to Sharpened Edges, Sharpshooter, Barbed Precision, and Bloodlust (basically every single bleed-on-attack related trait), make it 33% on critical hits and reduce the bleeding duration to 3 seconds because the effect can trigger from 3 different sources.

    Infinite Horizon

    Mirage Cloak

    • Problem: Dodging while disabled should not exist.
    • Solution: Remove the ability to dodge while disabled.

    Elusive Mind

    • Problem: Stunbreak on dodge should not exist.
    • Solution: Remove the stunbreak and exhaustion. Add a 20% cooldown reduction to Deception skills.

    Illusionary Ambush

    • Problem: This skill is a target break, free Mirage Cloak, and ambush attack (x4 with 3 illusions) on a 20 second cooldown that can be used while disabled.
    • Solution: Increase the cooldown to 30 seconds similar to Lightning Reflexes and Roll for Initiative.

    Axes of Symmetry

    • Problem: This skill applies 9 stacks of confusion for 3-5 seconds (Carrion vs. Deadshot amulet), evades, teleports, leaps, and target breaks every 8 seconds while traited.
    • Solution: Increase the cooldown to 15 seconds (12 seconds while traited) and reduce the 6 stacks of player confusion to 3.

    Confusing Images

    • Problem: This skill has extraordinarily high base power damage (higher than Rapid Fire or Maul and can hit for 4000 damage alone on Deadshot amulet without any investment into power or critical damage.
    • Solution: Lower the base damage from 2000 to 800.

    Illusionary Counter

    • Problem: This skill is a 4.75 second cooldown, 2 second duration block that summons 2 clones and applies 7 stacks of torment (5 on trigger, 1 per clone).
    • Solution: Increase the cooldown to 10 seconds (8 seconds while traited) and reduce the torment on trigger to 3.

    Confusion isn't really an issue after they nerfed the duration to 3s, there's not a lot of ways to extend that duration too much longer than 4s. Torment is a bigger issue, look at the application and damage formula for it. Ineptitude isn't a big issue.

    Duellist Discipline...seriously? It's a weak phantasm and you have to trait it to do the weakest condition in the game. Interrupting is easy when you fight idiots who just spam spam spam like most do now. Rewarding interrupts is needed as the counter is pretty easy especially with the prevalence of stability. This is a non issue.

    Sharper Images, OK if it stops the crying change it to 33% chance on crit but keep the duration. However when comparing traits against other classes they get 20% increased bleed duration and a ton of ways to apply bleed outside the trait in large amounts and durations, core mesmer doesn't apply much bleed except on crit and random on staff, the duration isn't that long either. Sooo...it's grasping at straws as usual for mesmer complaints but whatever, fine nerf it and still die to mirage because nothing's been done about the torment.

    Infinite Horizon you base this on an ideal that there is ALWAYS 3 clones at the time of getting mirage cloak however if you fight anything with good AOE damage the illusions die very fast. The trait isn't that big of an issue outside of specific instances like the axe trait and that the axe ambush is so strong on it's own. 1 dodge will usually nullify all the ambush's from the clones. Your idea is terrible and poorly thought out, anyone lording this as being balance worthy should really think if they would like their own class having a trait for show and show only that doesn't actually do anything.

    Mirage Cloak try out removing the ability to dodge while disabled.

    Elusive mind - Don't power creep it, make it remove 1 condition on mirage cloak, no exhaustion, no stunbreak. It doesn't need to reduce deception skill cool downs.

    Illusionary Ambush is in no way comparable with something like lightning reflexes or roll for initiative. For a start you have 0 control where it puts you so you can end up in a worse place. It's also not a stun break so you're still a sitting duck. Additionally both roll for initiative and lightning reflexes can be traited for lower cool downs and additional benefits, I might add that wilderness knowledge is an insanely good trait that affects 4-5 very strong skills. Illusionary ambush isn't a big deal, it's strong but I wouldn't take it unless I wasn't using 3rd slot for portal.

    Axes of Symmetry - yes the confusion is high but I think increasing the cool down to 12s to match the number 3 skills of other weapons is better, then see if it's OK.

    Confusing Images - yeah they kept buffing the power damage because mesmer has so few main hand weapons. It does too much damage now but at the same time it's a long channelled beam and clunky. Sure a 10-20% damage reduction might be in order but not the level of reduction you're asking.

    Illusionary counter is 6s CD... Though I didn't realise they'd reduced it as much as they did in PvP/WvW. Putting it back up to 8s is all that's needed.

    Edit: Forgot to say, most of your suggestions aren't good and only show you don't really play and learn the class. The biggest issues with mirage atm are:

    Has too much torment application, an argument can be made that torment and confusion don't belong on the same build.
    Same issues as other elite specs, low cool downs on a lot of things.
    Some ambush skills have too much condition application.

    Axe and sceptre ambush skills need toning down in number of conditions applied ideally switching torment to another condition, the axe trait could also do with just being a CDR and no extra axe. Some cool downs need to go up just like all elite specs like axes of symmetry, maybe the deceptions but then the deception skills are actually really bad so would need improvement to compete with SoM and blink. Maybe do a slight reduction to chaos vortex durations, the problem is it's very well telegraphed and slow.

  • babazhook.6805babazhook.6805 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 3, 2018

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @babazhook.6805 said:
    One issue I see is people tend to believe there a 1 to 1 comparison of damage versus defenses and sustain. That not the case. Damage HAS to always be larger then the various defensive tools or a kill will never be made. When you are talking about damage at the top end you are talking builds that tend to sacrifice for that damage. When you cut back the peak damage out and do so on a 1v1 basis then those persons who sacrifice defense for offense no longer gain enough advantahge to make it worthwhile. This leads them to survival mode which means bunker meta no one dying.

    This would be fine if these builds were going all in on damage or were actually taking damage lines like most mesmer/thief builds. However you have builds like holo and soulbeast where they take no damage lines and have 2-3 defensive skills while having several passive proc defences doing the same damage as builds taking damage lines. By in large they aren't sacrificing servivability for damage, they're straight up getting more and more utility which translate to increasing both.

    This is however why I said nerfing damage, healing and defences in my orginal post. I still think you could (if you wanted I personally would advocate a more varied approach and as stated defense+sustain as well) do a flat -20% damage done to players and you'd not end up with a bunker meta, nothing atm can survive 2v1 for very long.

    The problem is the math still off. I agree that there are builds that can go into bunker mode yet output serious damage, but at the same time you have the fact that there are classes that can not and some of those classes take an 8k loss in health points out of the gate. So while you point to "mesmer holo" as builds that can have great sustain with high damage output as an example of builds breaking the rule of sacrifices made , a thief that starts with 8k less in health next to a warrior losing 20 percent damage will be all but useless no matter how it traited. This because 20 percent less damage is easily neutralized if that hit point advantage remains. Throw in all the other sustain measures (blocks , endure pain etc) even were these cut and there just too great a combinaion of things for that thief to overcome.

    If there a 20 percent cut to damage out, there has to be equalization in health pools along with a >then 20 percent hit on sustain. It not a 1 for 1 thing. Frankly, would such a thing to occur, I would build my warrior up to 26+k health and would never worry again about dying to any thief. I can easily add more health .

    When looking at damage done in a system where some classes have a much smaller health pool , one has to forget the raw damage and focus more on "Percentage of health one can take away from another player in a single attack). If my single attack warrior can take away 90 percent of a thief helath pool and a thief using a single attack can only take away 30 percent of my warriors, even if the raw numbers the same, warrior wins.

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    Mesmer

    Ineptitude

    • Problem: Combined with Blinding Dissipation, the confusion and blind application Mirage has access to is extremely oppressive.
    • Solution: Reduce the confusion per blind to 1 stack.

    Duelist’s Discipline

    • Problem: Combined with Sharper Images, this trait means that Phantasmal Duelist alone can apply anywhere from 8-16 stacks of long-duration bleeding. Also, coupled with Mirage’s exceptionally high access to CC’s, this means that pistol skills can recharge nearly instantly.
    • Solution: Currently, this trait bleeds on EVERY hit from pistol attacks from you and your illusions. Instead, change this to 33% chance to bleed on CRITICAL hits like most other bleeding-related traits. Also, remove the 25% cooldown reduction on interrupt and make it a flat 20% cooldown reduction on pistol skills.

    Sharper Images

    • Problem: Again, this trait is 100% chance on critical hits to apply a 5-8 second bleed (Carrion vs. Deadshot amulet). This results in insane amounts of bleeding stacks with little effort on the mesmer’s part.
    • Solution: Similar to Sharpened Edges, Sharpshooter, Barbed Precision, and Bloodlust (basically every single bleed-on-attack related trait), make it 33% on critical hits and reduce the bleeding duration to 3 seconds because the effect can trigger from 3 different sources.

    Infinite Horizon

    Mirage Cloak

    • Problem: Dodging while disabled should not exist.
    • Solution: Remove the ability to dodge while disabled.

    Elusive Mind

    • Problem: Stunbreak on dodge should not exist.
    • Solution: Remove the stunbreak and exhaustion. Add a 20% cooldown reduction to Deception skills.

    Illusionary Ambush

    • Problem: This skill is a target break, free Mirage Cloak, and ambush attack (x4 with 3 illusions) on a 20 second cooldown that can be used while disabled.
    • Solution: Increase the cooldown to 30 seconds similar to Lightning Reflexes and Roll for Initiative.

    Axes of Symmetry

    • Problem: This skill applies 9 stacks of confusion for 3-5 seconds (Carrion vs. Deadshot amulet), evades, teleports, leaps, and target breaks every 8 seconds while traited.
    • Solution: Increase the cooldown to 15 seconds (12 seconds while traited) and reduce the 6 stacks of player confusion to 3.

    Confusing Images

    • Problem: This skill has extraordinarily high base power damage (higher than Rapid Fire or Maul and can hit for 4000 damage alone on Deadshot amulet without any investment into power or critical damage.
    • Solution: Lower the base damage from 2000 to 800.

    Illusionary Counter

    • Problem: This skill is a 4.75 second cooldown, 2 second duration block that summons 2 clones and applies 7 stacks of torment (5 on trigger, 1 per clone).
    • Solution: Increase the cooldown to 10 seconds (8 seconds while traited) and reduce the torment on trigger to 3.

    Confusion isn't really an issue after they nerfed the duration to 3s, there's not a lot of ways to extend that duration too much longer than 4s. Torment is a bigger issue, look at the application and damage formula for it. Ineptitude isn't a big issue.

    Duellist Discipline...seriously? It's a weak phantasm and you have to trait it to do the weakest condition in the game. Interrupting is easy when you fight idiots who just spam spam spam like most do now. Rewarding interrupts is needed as the counter is pretty easy especially with the prevalence of stability. This is a non issue.

    Sharper Images, OK if it stops the crying change it to 33% chance on crit but keep the duration. However when comparing traits against other classes they get 20% increased bleed duration and a ton of ways to apply bleed outside the trait in large amounts and durations, core mesmer doesn't apply much bleed except on crit and random on staff, the duration isn't that long either. Sooo...it's grasping at straws as usual for mesmer complaints but whatever, fine nerf it and still die to mirage because nothing's been done about the torment.

    Infinite Horizon you base this on an ideal that there is ALWAYS 3 clones at the time of getting mirage cloak however if you fight anything with good AOE damage the illusions die very fast. The trait isn't that big of an issue outside of specific instances like the axe trait and that the axe ambush is so strong on it's own. 1 dodge will usually nullify all the ambush's from the clones. Your idea is terrible and poorly thought out, anyone lording this as being balance worthy should really think if they would like their own class having a trait for show and show only that doesn't actually do anything.

    Mirage Cloak try out removing the ability to dodge while disabled.

    Elusive mind - Don't power creep it, make it remove 1 condition on mirage cloak, no exhaustion, no stunbreak. It doesn't need to reduce deception skill cool downs.

    Illusionary Ambush is in no way comparable with something like lightning reflexes or roll for initiative. For a start you have 0 control where it puts you so you can end up in a worse place. It's also not a stun break so you're still a sitting duck. Additionally both roll for initiative and lightning reflexes can be traited for lower cool downs and additional benefits, I might add that wilderness knowledge is an insanely good trait that affects 4-5 very strong skills. Illusionary ambush isn't a big deal, it's strong but I wouldn't take it unless I wasn't using 3rd slot for portal.

    Axes of Symmetry - yes the confusion is high but I think increasing the cool down to 12s to match the number 3 skills of other weapons is better, then see if it's OK.

    Confusing Images - yeah they kept buffing the power damage because mesmer has so few main hand weapons. It does too much damage now but at the same time it's a long channelled beam and clunky. Sure a 10-20% damage reduction might be in order but not the level of reduction you're asking.

    Illusionary counter is 6s CD... Though I didn't realise they'd reduced it as much as they did in PvP/WvW. Putting it back up to 8s is all that's needed.

    Edit: Forgot to say, most of your suggestions aren't good and only show you don't really play and learn the class. The biggest issues with mirage atm are:

    Has too much torment application, an argument can be made that torment and confusion don't belong on the same build.
    Same issues as other elite specs, low cool downs on a lot of things.
    Some ambush skills have too much condition application.

    Axe and sceptre ambush skills need toning down in number of conditions applied ideally switching torment to another condition, the axe trait could also do with just being a CDR and no extra axe. Some cool downs need to go up just like all elite specs like axes of symmetry, maybe the deceptions but then the deception skills are actually really bad so would need improvement to compete with SoM and blink. Maybe do a slight reduction to chaos vortex durations, the problem is it's very well telegraphed and slow.

    Regarding Infinite Horizon, I showed with testing and match on the previous page how his claims that it increases ambush damage by FOUR TIMES is wrong. And that aside from the Staff Ambush, which is extremely difficult to land with your own character let alone clones, Infinite Horizon doesn't even get close to that even with three clones and as much investment in damage as possible.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • tinyreborn.1938tinyreborn.1938 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 3, 2018

    @apharma.3741 said:
    Sharper Images, OK if it stops the crying change it to 33% chance on crit but keep the duration. However when comparing traits against other classes they get 20% increased bleed duration and a ton of ways to apply bleed outside the trait in large amounts and durations, core mesmer doesn't apply much bleed except on crit and random on staff, the duration isn't that long either. Sooo...it's grasping at straws as usual for mesmer complaints but whatever, fine nerf it and still die to mirage because nothing's been done about the torment.

    All those traits he complaint about increase duration/damage by bleeds and caused by owner attacks ,phantasms/illusions die in 1 hit and used as shatter fodder. Nothign to compare . Also chance to crit taken from mesmer himself ,fury on mesmer doenst affect clones ,with carrion its still 5% to crit. To have 50% chance for bleed you need alot of precision . Even with wizard you have ~30 % .

    Elusive mind - Don't power creep it, make it remove 1 condition on mirage cloak, no exhaustion, no stunbreak. It doesn't need to reduce deception skill cool downs.

    Too weak , wouldnt be taken ever over IH .

    Confusing Images - yeah they kept buffing the power damage because mesmer has so few main hand weapons. It does too much damage now but at the same time it's a long channelled beam and clunky. Sure a 10-20% damage reduction might be in order but not the level of reduction you're asking.

    Its rly strong skill but lets be real , 900 range and pretty slow casting laser... I dont care for future of this skill because scepter never been good weapon even after its buff.

    Illusionary counter is 6s CD... Though I didn't realise they'd reduced it as much as they did in PvP/WvW. Putting it back up to 8s is all that's needed.

    BTW Once axe would be nerfed . Mirage would struggle to kill anyone with their cleanse spamming anyway
    Also I like how he trying to 'nerf' ranger while every suggestion is a buff xDDDDDD
    Perma moa stance with 100% share to allies . A better offensive version of rampage as one with a breakstun/stab/ low cd . When ppl wanted Timewarp to be 50% duration and 50% cut cd everyone been like ITS OP, NO NEED TO BUFF OPSMER!
    Want to move 2 minor traits that alrdy good into 1 insane trait that will reduce recharge on pet swap,increase pet damage by 10%, movespeed and give ferocity bonus and make new trait ... like kitten? Its a nerf????????
    He didnt even listed how dumb plasma and all this boons as 10s with 0% boon duration anywhere.
    Buff my class to hell and nerf others.
    Most not biased balance suggestions ! /sarcasm
    At this point i'm glad they never listen to players when it comes to balance , even random buffs and nerfs are better than this

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @tinyreborn.1938 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:
    Sharper Images, OK if it stops the crying change it to 33% chance on crit but keep the duration. However when comparing traits against other classes they get 20% increased bleed duration and a ton of ways to apply bleed outside the trait in large amounts and durations, core mesmer doesn't apply much bleed except on crit and random on staff, the duration isn't that long either. Sooo...it's grasping at straws as usual for mesmer complaints but whatever, fine nerf it and still die to mirage because nothing's been done about the torment.

    All those traits he complaint about increase duration/damage by bleeds and caused by owner attacks ,phantasms/illusions die in 1 hit and used as shatter fodder. Nothign to compare . Also chance to crit taken from mesmer himself ,fury on mesmer doenst affect clones ,with carrion its still 5% to crit. To have 50% chance for bleed you need alot of precision . Even with wizard you have ~30 % .

    Elusive mind - Don't power creep it, make it remove 1 condition on mirage cloak, no exhaustion, no stunbreak. It doesn't need to reduce deception skill cool downs.

    Too weak , wouldnt be taken ever over IH .

    Confusing Images - yeah they kept buffing the power damage because mesmer has so few main hand weapons. It does too much damage now but at the same time it's a long channelled beam and clunky. Sure a 10-20% damage reduction might be in order but not the level of reduction you're asking.

    Its rly strong skill but lets be real , 900 range and pretty slow casting laser... I dont care for future of this skill because scepter never been good weapon even after its buff.

    Illusionary counter is 6s CD... Though I didn't realise they'd reduced it as much as they did in PvP/WvW. Putting it back up to 8s is all that's needed.

    BTW Once axe would be nerfed . Mirage would struggle to kill anyone with their cleanse spamming anyway
    Also I like how he trying to 'nerf' ranger while every suggestion is a buff xDDDDDD
    Perma moa stance with 100% share to allies . A better offensive version of rampage as one with a breakstun/stab/ low cd . When ppl wanted Timewarp to be 50% duration and 50% cut cd everyone been like ITS OP, NO NEED TO BUFF OPSMER!
    Want to move 2 minor traits that alrdy good into 1 insane trait that will reduce recharge on pet swap,increase pet damage by 10%, movespeed and give ferocity bonus and make new trait ... like kitten? Its a nerf????????
    He didnt even listed how dumb plasma and all this boons as 10s with 0% boon duration anywhere.
    Buff my class to hell and nerf others.
    Most not biased balance suggestions ! /sarcasm
    At this point i'm glad they never listen to players when it comes to balance , even random buffs and nerfs are better than this

    Yeah I wrote a....scathing review of his changes to ranger earlier.

    I know sceptre is clunky and everything I do play it but there's no reason to keep confusing images as doing the ludicrous damage it does in power nor having cool downs so low. Bear in mind I advocate increasing cool downs fo a lot of skills across all classes to be more in line with how core was pre HoT. The power creep has not made the game more fun.

    I would 100% use elusive mind for the cleanse on power mes as I stated, look at my specific wording, whenevery you gain mirage cloak you cleanse a condition. Mirrors and iAmbush would each cleanse a condition each.

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @tinyreborn.1938 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:
    Sharper Images, OK if it stops the crying change it to 33% chance on crit but keep the duration. However when comparing traits against other classes they get 20% increased bleed duration and a ton of ways to apply bleed outside the trait in large amounts and durations, core mesmer doesn't apply much bleed except on crit and random on staff, the duration isn't that long either. Sooo...it's grasping at straws as usual for mesmer complaints but whatever, fine nerf it and still die to mirage because nothing's been done about the torment.

    All those traits he complaint about increase duration/damage by bleeds and caused by owner attacks ,phantasms/illusions die in 1 hit and used as shatter fodder. Nothign to compare . Also chance to crit taken from mesmer himself ,fury on mesmer doenst affect clones ,with carrion its still 5% to crit. To have 50% chance for bleed you need alot of precision . Even with wizard you have ~30 % .

    Elusive mind - Don't power creep it, make it remove 1 condition on mirage cloak, no exhaustion, no stunbreak. It doesn't need to reduce deception skill cool downs.

    Too weak , wouldnt be taken ever over IH .

    Confusing Images - yeah they kept buffing the power damage because mesmer has so few main hand weapons. It does too much damage now but at the same time it's a long channelled beam and clunky. Sure a 10-20% damage reduction might be in order but not the level of reduction you're asking.

    Its rly strong skill but lets be real , 900 range and pretty slow casting laser... I dont care for future of this skill because scepter never been good weapon even after its buff.

    Illusionary counter is 6s CD... Though I didn't realise they'd reduced it as much as they did in PvP/WvW. Putting it back up to 8s is all that's needed.

    BTW Once axe would be nerfed . Mirage would struggle to kill anyone with their cleanse spamming anyway
    Also I like how he trying to 'nerf' ranger while every suggestion is a buff xDDDDDD
    Perma moa stance with 100% share to allies . A better offensive version of rampage as one with a breakstun/stab/ low cd . When ppl wanted Timewarp to be 50% duration and 50% cut cd everyone been like ITS OP, NO NEED TO BUFF OPSMER!
    Want to move 2 minor traits that alrdy good into 1 insane trait that will reduce recharge on pet swap,increase pet damage by 10%, movespeed and give ferocity bonus and make new trait ... like kitten? Its a nerf????????
    He didnt even listed how dumb plasma and all this boons as 10s with 0% boon duration anywhere.
    Buff my class to hell and nerf others.
    Most not biased balance suggestions ! /sarcasm
    At this point i'm glad they never listen to players when it comes to balance , even random buffs and nerfs are better than this

    Yeah I wrote a....scathing review of his changes to ranger earlier.

    I know sceptre is clunky and everything I do play it but there's no reason to keep confusing images as doing the ludicrous damage it does in power nor having cool downs so low. Bear in mind I advocate increasing cool downs fo a lot of skills across all classes to be more in line with how core was pre HoT. The power creep has not made the game more fun.

    I would 100% use elusive mind for the cleanse on power mes as I stated, look at my specific wording, whenevery you gain mirage cloak you cleanse a condition. Mirrors and iAmbush would each cleanse a condition each.

    It got buffed because no one was using scepter. Barely anyone is using scepter now either.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • tinyreborn.1938tinyreborn.1938 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 4, 2018

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @tinyreborn.1938 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:
    Sharper Images, OK if it stops the crying change it to 33% chance on crit but keep the duration. However when comparing traits against other classes they get 20% increased bleed duration and a ton of ways to apply bleed outside the trait in large amounts and durations, core mesmer doesn't apply much bleed except on crit and random on staff, the duration isn't that long either. Sooo...it's grasping at straws as usual for mesmer complaints but whatever, fine nerf it and still die to mirage because nothing's been done about the torment.

    All those traits he complaint about increase duration/damage by bleeds and caused by owner attacks ,phantasms/illusions die in 1 hit and used as shatter fodder. Nothign to compare . Also chance to crit taken from mesmer himself ,fury on mesmer doenst affect clones ,with carrion its still 5% to crit. To have 50% chance for bleed you need alot of precision . Even with wizard you have ~30 % .

    Elusive mind - Don't power creep it, make it remove 1 condition on mirage cloak, no exhaustion, no stunbreak. It doesn't need to reduce deception skill cool downs.

    Too weak , wouldnt be taken ever over IH .

    Confusing Images - yeah they kept buffing the power damage because mesmer has so few main hand weapons. It does too much damage now but at the same time it's a long channelled beam and clunky. Sure a 10-20% damage reduction might be in order but not the level of reduction you're asking.

    Its rly strong skill but lets be real , 900 range and pretty slow casting laser... I dont care for future of this skill because scepter never been good weapon even after its buff.

    Illusionary counter is 6s CD... Though I didn't realise they'd reduced it as much as they did in PvP/WvW. Putting it back up to 8s is all that's needed.

    BTW Once axe would be nerfed . Mirage would struggle to kill anyone with their cleanse spamming anyway
    Also I like how he trying to 'nerf' ranger while every suggestion is a buff xDDDDDD
    Perma moa stance with 100% share to allies . A better offensive version of rampage as one with a breakstun/stab/ low cd . When ppl wanted Timewarp to be 50% duration and 50% cut cd everyone been like ITS OP, NO NEED TO BUFF OPSMER!
    Want to move 2 minor traits that alrdy good into 1 insane trait that will reduce recharge on pet swap,increase pet damage by 10%, movespeed and give ferocity bonus and make new trait ... like kitten? Its a nerf????????
    He didnt even listed how dumb plasma and all this boons as 10s with 0% boon duration anywhere.
    Buff my class to hell and nerf others.
    Most not biased balance suggestions ! /sarcasm
    At this point i'm glad they never listen to players when it comes to balance , even random buffs and nerfs are better than this

    Yeah I wrote a....scathing review of his changes to ranger earlier.

    I know sceptre is clunky and everything I do play it but there's no reason to keep confusing images as doing the ludicrous damage it does in power nor having cool downs so low. Bear in mind I advocate increasing cool downs fo a lot of skills across all classes to be more in line with how core was pre HoT. The power creep has not made the game more fun.

    I would 100% use elusive mind for the cleanse on power mes as I stated, look at my specific wording, whenevery you gain mirage cloak you cleanse a condition. Mirrors and iAmbush would each cleanse a condition each.

    To bring every POF spec in line with other they need to make HUGE nerfs on everything . Just an example is holosmith . Its reaper v3.0 that dont need lf/can use heal/utilities/elite and sustain himself and reduce heat with dodge spam ,hello permavigor/quickness etc.
    About ranger by the way , just make any boon share trait give ranger only 1 stack of might, not all . in other words remove access to easy 25 might on top of other damage/survivability nerfs.
    Pick your winner: lazynet are
    A) Dont know how to balance
    B)Dont want to balanace
    C) Too busy with gemshop

  • Ryan.9387Ryan.9387 Member ✭✭✭

    Fortifying bond to beastmastery would be a soulbeasts dream. We can take traited heal as one + fortifying bond for another boon copy.

    20s->16s on the proc of revenant runes. Extra 3s of resistance per 16s.

    Then ranger can merge with 25might/quickness and get all the bm passive stats for their burst. Also gives us taunt on demand or another quickness source. Super op.

  • Silinsar.6298Silinsar.6298 Member ✭✭✭

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    Engineer

    Kinetic Battery

    • Problem: Gives Holosmith 7 seconds of quickness every 7 seconds (100% uptime).
    • Solution: Reduce Quickness and Superspeed duration to 3 seconds and add an internal cooldown of 12 seconds (25% uptime).

    No. First you seem to take 40% boon duration for granted, which isn't the case for every setup and takes additional investment somewhere else. Then, even if you run Both rifle turret and photon wall in combination with healing turret and another 20-30sec TB you basically have to spam everything on CD and always enter and leave photon forge as soon as possible. With such a setup it's possible, but not really practical. Better to get less quickness and use your skills better.
    The problem with this trait on holo is actually that both PF (enter and leave) count as TB skill. Which makes holo amazingly apt at triggering kinetic battery compared to other specs. The solution would be to make either enter or leave pf not count as a TB skill, nerfing the frequency in which holo can proc it without making it totally underwhelming for core and scrapper.
    Also, I think it's strange to say the quickness is the problem and then suggest to not only cut that down by 3/4 (using your numbers) but also nerf the super speed into the ground.

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    Lock On

    • Problem: This trait can reveal someone for 12 seconds every 25 seconds (50% uptime). Hitting a stealthed foe triggers Invisible Analysis, but disabling a foe triggers Controlled Analysis. These are 2 entirely different skills that do the exact same thing but share separate cooldowns.
    • Solution: Remove the double proc and change them to Analyze. This means the trait will function properly and only reveals someone for 6 seconds every 25 seconds (24% uptime).

    Lock on is basically a band-aid counter for builds that have too much access to stealth, so as long stealth gets toned downed too a nerf's fine. I don't quite get the wording of the solution, the trait already pretty much does what Analyze does. Just say you want the procs to share the CD.

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    Power Wrench

    • Problem: 3 seconds of cooldown reduction on your elite skill every time you dodge is WAY too strong. With Vigor, players can dodge once every 7 seconds. If you do the math for a traited Elixir X (60 - 60 / 7 * 3), it goes on a 34 second cooldown. For Prime Light Beam (75 - 75 / 7 * 3), it goes on a 42 second cooldown.
    • Solution: Reduce the cooldown reduction on dodge to 1 second. For Elixir X (60 - 60 / 7 * 1), it goes on a 51 second cooldown. For Prime Light Beam (75 - 75 / 7 * 1), it goes on a 64 second cooldown.

    If you just spam dodge any time you can the 34 elite CD won't help you because you'll be dead before that. Tbh, I don't know why the trait even got this functionality (even builds without tool kit use it now, and it was basically meant to be a tool kit trait). So I wouldn't mind seeing it removed and replaced with something that better works with tool kit.

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    Photon Forge Autos

    • Problem: The range on these auto attacks (240) are nearly double the range of other melee attacks (130 for 1-handed, 150 for 2-handed).
    • Solution: Reduce the range on the autos to 150 to be in-line with other melee skills.

    I'd say 170/170/220 to match reaper's melee mode would fit.

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    Holo Leap

    • Problem: 2 second cooldown, 600 range, 1000 base damage leap. This is essentially a 1200 range movement skill on a 4 second cooldown that can critically hit you for 6000+ damage (3000+ per hit).
    • Solution: Increase the cooldown to 4 seconds. This makes it a bit easier to kite a Holo, lowers the overall dps, but still allows them to maintain permanent swiftness.

    The range of the leap plus the attack is 600, the leap itself is shorter. The distance gained compared to someone running is actually not that much due to the short animation locks where you don't move at the start and end of the skill. Distance gained is comparable to about 1-1,5sec super speed. Saying that it's a 1200 range movement every 4sec is vastly exaggerated. And yeah, it does some damage, but not something auto attacks wouldn't do in the mean time.
    I can see an argument for an increased CD only if the actual jump distance is increased too.

    Corona Burst

    • Problem: Requires 2 dodges to avoid giving the Holo stab when traited with Crystal Configuration: Eclipse and gives the holo permanent stability due to the 1.5 second delay between pulses. With one pulse, the uptime on stab is 88% (5.25/6). However, the double pulse causes the downtime between stab to be nearly nonexistent (less than a quarter of a second).
    • Solution: Move both stacks of stability to the initial hit and increase the cooldown to 8 seconds (65% uptime on stab).

    It doesn't require two dodges, it just requires any form of kiting, soft or hard CC on an enemy that's probably locked into leap animations during which he can't even dodge while closing in. And again you're taking up to 50% boon duration for granted. Even then it's not a permanent stability because a Holo won't be able to hit everytime and be in melee and in photon forge 24/7. I think the conditional stab application for an engi forced into melee is fitting and offers enough counter play, what should be cut down is the damage amplification due to vuln+might and maybe the barrier gain.

    Holographic Shockwave

    • Problem: The range on this skill is ridiculously far. Currently, if you stand in the center of Legacy Mid and use this skill, you will hit every single person on the point.
    • Solution: Reduce the range to 300 to match Corona Burst’s range.

    It has 600 range. The range's the same as every other skill with 600 range, why suddenly base a nerf not on numbers but on the subjective impression ("ridiculously far") of the skill's range? It hitting people on a point is a complaint about the area covered, which does not necessarily have to be nerfed by cutting the range.
    Anyway, as I said somewhere else, imo the visualization of the skill's the issue. Unlike fields you just don't know exactly where it ends which can make attempts to counter it by moving frustrating.
    As for the area covered: I'd suggest making it a 180° cone instead of a 360° skill. If you want to stick to a range nerf I'd make it an instant impact in return.

    SD Engi / Holo roaming videos: https://www.youtube.com/user/algeyr

  • Bazsi.2734Bazsi.2734 Member ✭✭✭

    Wow you sure like to shoot at sparrows with a cannon.

    Ranger changes - well maybe...
    Holosmith changes - some shaves are needed, but this is absolutely overkill.
    Mirage changes - on top of removing the cheese of dodgeing while stunned (without EM), you want to remove the condi specs ability to do condi damage.
    Warrior changes - meh... maybe?
    Thief changes - another nerf to S/D, seriously? The build is already unable to duel/contest/do even teamfights, but that's still not enough, lets take away some more damage from the decap-bot! And just for good measure, also smitersbooning rifle on DE.

    You should aim for balance, not nuking metabuilds into oblivion. Just for example, Revenant and reaper have absurd power burst&pressure. If the six classes you mentioned are toned down even half as much as you mentioned, these two cant stay untouched either, unless you want a meta where these two reign supreme.

    You do well with identifying whats too strong at the moment, but your suggested solutions are to hiroshima the nagasaki out of everything thats slightly overperforming.

  • @Bazsi.2734 said:

    You didnt read his suggestions about ranger at all ? Everything except axe3 are buffs xD
    Why no one mention perma reflect on mesmer ,ever ?

  • Safandula.8723Safandula.8723 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Cant we Just Remove mirage cloak? Its extrlemly stupid to do everything u want while evading(distortion has 40s cd which is ok), with few sec cd

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Bazsi.2734 said:
    Wow you sure like to shoot at sparrows with a cannon.

    Ranger changes - well maybe...
    1. Holosmith changes - some shaves are needed, but this is absolutely overkill.
    2. Mirage changes - on top of removing the cheese of dodgeing while stunned (without EM), you want to remove the condi specs ability to do condi damage.
    Warrior changes - meh... maybe?
    3. Thief changes - another nerf to S/D, seriously? The build is already unable to duel/contest/do even teamfights, but that's still not enough, lets take away some more damage from the decap-bot! And just for good measure, also smitersbooning rifle on DE.

    1. You should aim for balance, not nuking metabuilds into oblivion. Just for example, Revenant and reaper have absurd power burst&pressure. If the six classes you mentioned are toned down even half as much as you mentioned, these two cant stay untouched either, unless you want a meta where these two reign supreme.

      1. You do well with identifying whats too strong at the moment, but your suggested solutions are to hiroshima the nagasaki out of everything thats slightly overperforming.
    1. Holos have permanent quickness, 5/7 uptime on super speed, permanent stability, and roughly 50%+ cooldown reduction on their elite skills. My suggestion was to tone quickness and super speed uptime down to 25% (making Kinetic Battery essentially the same as Zephyr's Speed, reduce stability uptime to 5/8, and reduce the elite CDR from Power Wrench down to 20%.

    2. My changes to Mesmer's bleeding-related traits make them function exactly the same as EVERY other bleed-on-attack trait in the game. No other class has access to a trait with 100% chance to bleed on hit/crit. My changes to confusion and torment will result in bursts of around 10 stacks of conditions instead of 18+ stacks.

    3. It's silly that an s/d thief's main damage skills are completely unblockable. I explained why in my OP. I also explained why Death's Judgement shouldn't be unblockable.

    4. How exactly are these changes "nuking" the meta builds? Also, I stated that I was only making suggestions for the classes I am most familiar with.

    5. Thanks, but I disagree. The changes I suggested are very reasonable in my opinion. If you want to explain why you think otherwise, I'm open to a discussion. However, don't just say I'm "nuking" things without providing any justification to back up your claims.

  • EpicTurtle.8571EpicTurtle.8571 Member ✭✭✭✭

    It's funny that you stated you're only making changes for classes you're most familiar with yet you either don't understand or grossly misrepresent the actual function, practicality, or effect of most of the Mesmer abilities you mentioned.

  • As a S/D Thief main I (obviously) don‘t like the changes you suggest to S#3. You wrote about well timed blocks, but imo they don‘t or just rarely exist. I‘d use the word spam instead of well timed but maybe that‘s just my inpression of PvP atm. I however suggest that, if you take the block away, you a) change the animation of the first S#3 skill so I doesn‘t miss all the time due to the huge flank or b) you don‘t touch the animation and up the damage.

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 10, 2018

    @EpicTurtle.8571 said:
    It's funny that you stated you're only making changes for classes you're most familiar with yet you either don't understand or grossly misrepresent the actual function, practicality, or effect of most of the Mesmer abilities you mentioned.

    Here were my 3 typos:

    1. Blinding Dissipation only triggers around the player, not each clone. The change I suggested was to make it function exactly how it does now, so nothing would have been affected.
    2. Illusionary Ambush can be used while CC'd but it is NOT a stunbreak.
    3. The interval for the cooldown reduction on Duelist's Discipline ONLY applied to enemies with Defiance bars in PvE.

    So, wouldn't call that, "grossly misrepresenting" most of the mesmer abilities.

    However, I find it funny that MESMER mains are the only ones in every balance thread that vehemently defend every aspect of their busted class. Meanwhile, they think core guardians and holosmiths are the most broken builds in the game and deserve to be butchered. (Builds with enough AoE to kill clones AND an insane amount of condi clear, omegaLUL). Newflash! If these builds are nerfed like you guys want, you'll be even more OP and easy to play than you are currently.

  • EpicTurtle.8571EpicTurtle.8571 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 10, 2018

    And now you've misunderstood my whole reply. Let me make it clearer for you. Your perception of how powerful or usable most of those abilities is way off. And going into a tirade about Mesmer mains hardly improves your already frail credibility. I'll give you a couple examples

    Scepter 2 is a block and counterattack. You don't have to trigger it if you have the slightest presence of mind. And saying 7 stacks of torment is disingenuous when 2 are the Ether Bolt from clones. Ether Bolt is by far one of the smallest durations for a damaging condition in the game. And Mesmer Scepter is also by far one of the least used weapons in the game, with the least used being Mesmer Focus.

    Infinite Horizon. Mortrialus explained in depth already but I'll hit it again. Aside from Chaos Vortex which again is easily dodgeable, every clone sourced ambush is actually a lesser ambush especially the Axe one where the clones literally apply 1/3 of the conditions of the player version.

    Confusing Images, there are some meme builds with Scepter but basically same closing point as Scepter 2. If everyone and their Mom was running around one shotting people with an LoSable beam maybe there would be a problem.

    Dodging while CC'ed. As long as there are classes with ridiculous stability uptime I don't see this as an actual issue. I still wouldn't anyway as if you delay your burst by a fraction of a second or bait dodges like a half decent player you'll still land it.

    The two bleeding traits. Again, read what the other posters comments, the actual effectiveness of these traits is starkly less than your incoherent rant about them.

    Literally the only salient point you made was about the BD Ineptitude combo. And maybe Axes of Symmetry.

  • phokus.8934phokus.8934 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @EpicTurtle.8571 said:
    It's funny that you stated you're only making changes for classes you're most familiar with yet you either don't understand or grossly misrepresent the actual function, practicality, or effect of most of the Mesmer abilities you mentioned.

    Here were my 3 typos:

    1. Blinding Dissipation only triggers around the player, not each clone. The change I suggested was to make it function exactly how it does now, so nothing would have been affected.
    2. Illusionary Ambush can be used while CC'd but it is NOT a stunbreak.
    3. The interval for the cooldown reduction on Duelist's Discipline ONLY applied to enemies with Defiance bars in PvE.

    So, wouldn't call that, "grossly misrepresenting" most of the mesmer abilities.

    However, I find it funny that MESMER mains are the only ones in every balance thread that vehemently defend every aspect of their busted class. Meanwhile, they think core guardians and holosmiths are the most broken builds in the game and deserve to be butchered. (Builds with enough AoE to kill clones AND an insane amount of condi clear, omegaLUL). Newflash! If these builds are nerfed like you guys want, you'll be even more OP and easy to play than you are currently.

    Usually most mesmer mains are tired of non-mesmers (or people with the lack of unbiased objectivity) throwing out their butchering ideas to their class.

    Essentially what this forum is filled with is argument from ignorance.

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 10, 2018

    @EpicTurtle.8571 said:
    And now you've misunderstood my whole reply. Let me make it clearer for you. Your perception of how powerful or usable most of those abilities is way off. And going into a tirade about Mesmer mains hardly improves your already frail credibility.

    https://clips.twitch.tv/CoweringAverageHorseBigBrother

    1. 17 stacks of bleeding from a single Phantasmal Duelist
    2. 10 to 15+ stacks of confusion and torment with Ether Barrage
    3. 10+ stacks of conditions when shattering with Mind Wrack, not even Cry of Frustration

    But yes, I'm exaggerating. Ecks Dee

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @phokus.8934 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @EpicTurtle.8571 said:
    It's funny that you stated you're only making changes for classes you're most familiar with yet you either don't understand or grossly misrepresent the actual function, practicality, or effect of most of the Mesmer abilities you mentioned.

    Here were my 3 typos:

    1. Blinding Dissipation only triggers around the player, not each clone. The change I suggested was to make it function exactly how it does now, so nothing would have been affected.
    2. Illusionary Ambush can be used while CC'd but it is NOT a stunbreak.
    3. The interval for the cooldown reduction on Duelist's Discipline ONLY applied to enemies with Defiance bars in PvE.

    So, wouldn't call that, "grossly misrepresenting" most of the mesmer abilities.

    However, I find it funny that MESMER mains are the only ones in every balance thread that vehemently defend every aspect of their busted class. Meanwhile, they think core guardians and holosmiths are the most broken builds in the game and deserve to be butchered. (Builds with enough AoE to kill clones AND an insane amount of condi clear, omegaLUL). Newflash! If these builds are nerfed like you guys want, you'll be even more OP and easy to play than you are currently.

    Usually most mesmer mains are tired of non-mesmers (or people with the lack of unbiased objectivity) throwing out their butchering ideas to their class.

    Essentially what this forum is filled with is argument from ignorance.

    "However, I find it funny that MESMER mains are the only ones in every balance thread that vehemently defend every aspect of their busted class."

    Point proven.

    Oh but don't forget how overpowered core guards are! /s

  • EpicTurtle.8571EpicTurtle.8571 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 10, 2018

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @EpicTurtle.8571 said:
    And now you've misunderstood my whole reply. Let me make it clearer for you. Your perception of how powerful or usable most of those abilities is way off. And going into a tirade about Mesmer mains hardly improves your already frail credibility.

    https://clips.twitch.tv/CoweringAverageHorseBigBrother

    Less than a minute wacking at an NPC totally proves your point guy /s

    Tell me how many scepter/pistol mesmers there are running around. And why isn't that the dominant complaint in the Mesmer kitten factory if it's such a problem?

  • Curennos.9307Curennos.9307 Member ✭✭✭

    A simple 'should not' statement with no comparison isn't really a compelling argument. Even with the other parts of your list, you at least make some feasible comparisons - I find your analysis of DJ a tad lackluster.

    Don't forget the tell, malice stacks, stealth required, and that the shot can be bodyblocked. Quickness is a thing, but should (imo) be addressed class-wide, all at once. Heck, maybe it's possible to even have some skills exclude benefitting from quickness in a certain game mode, so that wvw/spvp can have their thing, but it doesn't screw over DE in pve dps.

    I do think it's perfectly reasonable to request the shot be blockable, but if it is, it needs pierce.

    There's also that the Thief doesn't lose their Malice stacks if they miss, which imo is extremely flawed risk/reward design. I don't have any specific suggestions off the top of my head, but messing with having the thief lose their stacks - or losing some stacks but not all - on a miss would, if combined with some other changes (perhaps both nerf-changes and buff-changes) have a net positive result.

    Maybe an 'ignore blind' in there somewhere, too, though that's more of an issue I've been having with Malicious Backstab.


    Agreed on Flanking/Larc and Daggerstorm.

    For Silent Scope, not so much. RIght direction, I think, but a tad too narrow in scope. Stealth is really mashed in there tightly with Thief + several other classes.

    I'd first change some traits so that Theif is rewarded for NOT lingering in stealth - a great example of this is the Shadow Arts GM trait that heals you per second and gives you ini per 3 sec in stealth. This encourages the thief to stay in stealth for a minimum of 3 sec for that ini, and further rewards stacking stealth. There's nothing there that rewards the Thief for efficient use of stealth or serves a deterrent for lingering. I have beef with a bunch of traits in Shadow Arts - getting decreased inc dmg while in stealth as opposed to getting decreased damage when OUT of stealth, or something much more potent, but limited then dmg reduc for a duration (such as absorbs inc attacks, limited charges). A flat duration increase to stealth. Yadda yadda. Too much stuff like that.

    Just trimming the duration of stealth on dodge is probably a decent starting point - shave off a second, see what happens, go from there. Or maybe make it 1 sec, but have the trait be baseline and work on all weapons...or even a 'lesser stealth' with some minor damage reduction and allowing stealth attacks to be used, but you can still be targeted to some degree.

    If nothing else, a 10 sec ICD sounds a tad too long.

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @EpicTurtle.8571 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @EpicTurtle.8571 said:
    And now you've misunderstood my whole reply. Let me make it clearer for you. Your perception of how powerful or usable most of those abilities is way off. And going into a tirade about Mesmer mains hardly improves your already frail credibility.

    https://clips.twitch.tv/CoweringAverageHorseBigBrother

    Less than a minute wacking at an NPC totally proves your point guy /s

    Tell me how many scepter/pistol mesmers there are running around. And why isn't that the dominant complaint in the Mesmer kitten factory if it's such a problem?

    https://clips.twitch.tv/RespectfulDullHyenaFreakinStinkin

    Live player btw

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Curennos.9307

    You want a 14,000 damage, 1500 range attack to pierce and be unaffected by blind. Seriously?

    You're just going to have groups of Deadeye's going around lasering zergs to death and perma stealthing away as soon as they get attacked.

  • EpicTurtle.8571EpicTurtle.8571 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 10, 2018

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @EpicTurtle.8571 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @EpicTurtle.8571 said:
    And now you've misunderstood my whole reply. Let me make it clearer for you. Your perception of how powerful or usable most of those abilities is way off. And going into a tirade about Mesmer mains hardly improves your already frail credibility.

    https://clips.twitch.tv/CoweringAverageHorseBigBrother

    Less than a minute wacking at an NPC totally proves your point guy /s

    Tell me how many scepter/pistol mesmers there are running around. And why isn't that the dominant complaint in the Mesmer kitten factory if it's such a problem?

    https://clips.twitch.tv/RespectfulDullHyenaFreakinStinkin

    Live player btw

    All I really saw was you using a block into a stun and a thief with very poor skill at dodging. You realize 75% of the conditions you inflict from Scepter fall off in about 2 seconds right? Again your half math seems theoretically scary but the actuality is if you fought a half decent player that used more than one cleanse, you'd realize your perspective is flawed.

    Just face it, your 'changes' are self congratulatory nonsense aimed at being another, 'devs look at how good my ideas are' thread.

  • Curennos.9307Curennos.9307 Member ✭✭✭

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    @Curennos.9307

    You want a 14,000 damage, 1500 range attack to pierce and be unaffected by blind. Seriously?

    You're just going to have groups of Deadeye's going around lasering zergs to death and perma stealthing away as soon as they get attacked.

    If the laser zerg actually reads what I wrote and acknowledges the options as different options that can be combined in several different ways, as opposed to somehow concluding that I want ALL THE THINGS, then I'll take 'em. Bonus points if they realize that adding reduced damage to pierced targets is something that could actually happen.

    In short, no. No I do not.

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @EpicTurtle.8571 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @EpicTurtle.8571 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @EpicTurtle.8571 said:
    And now you've misunderstood my whole reply. Let me make it clearer for you. Your perception of how powerful or usable most of those abilities is way off. And going into a tirade about Mesmer mains hardly improves your already frail credibility.

    https://clips.twitch.tv/CoweringAverageHorseBigBrother

    Less than a minute wacking at an NPC totally proves your point guy /s

    Tell me how many scepter/pistol mesmers there are running around. And why isn't that the dominant complaint in the Mesmer kitten factory if it's such a problem?

    https://clips.twitch.tv/RespectfulDullHyenaFreakinStinkin

    Live player btw

    All I really saw was you using a block into a stun and a thief with very poor skill at dodging. You realize 75% of the conditions you inflict from Scepter fall off in about 2 seconds right? Again your half math seems theoretically scary but the actuality is if you fought a half decent player that used more than one cleanse, you'd realize your perspective is flawed.

    Just face it, your 'changes' are self congratulatory nonsense aimed at being another, 'devs look at how good my ideas are' thread.

    So your complaints were:

    1. I was exaggerating the strength of the skills. So, I linked a clip a me killing an NPC to prove how much damage the skills did.
    2. Then, you said it wasn't against a real player, so it doesn't count. So, I linked a clip of me killing a real player.
    3. THEN, you said the player I killed wasn't good enough, so it doesn't count.

    lol

  • phokus.8934phokus.8934 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @phokus.8934 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @EpicTurtle.8571 said:
    It's funny that you stated you're only making changes for classes you're most familiar with yet you either don't understand or grossly misrepresent the actual function, practicality, or effect of most of the Mesmer abilities you mentioned.

    Here were my 3 typos:

    1. Blinding Dissipation only triggers around the player, not each clone. The change I suggested was to make it function exactly how it does now, so nothing would have been affected.
    2. Illusionary Ambush can be used while CC'd but it is NOT a stunbreak.
    3. The interval for the cooldown reduction on Duelist's Discipline ONLY applied to enemies with Defiance bars in PvE.

    So, wouldn't call that, "grossly misrepresenting" most of the mesmer abilities.

    However, I find it funny that MESMER mains are the only ones in every balance thread that vehemently defend every aspect of their busted class. Meanwhile, they think core guardians and holosmiths are the most broken builds in the game and deserve to be butchered. (Builds with enough AoE to kill clones AND an insane amount of condi clear, omegaLUL). Newflash! If these builds are nerfed like you guys want, you'll be even more OP and easy to play than you are currently.

    Usually most mesmer mains are tired of non-mesmers (or people with the lack of unbiased objectivity) throwing out their butchering ideas to their class.

    Essentially what this forum is filled with is argument from ignorance.

    "However, I find it funny that MESMER mains are the only ones in every balance thread that vehemently defend every aspect of their busted class."

    Point proven.

    Oh but don't forget how overpowered core guards are! /s

    You proved nothing other than your disdain for a class and ineptitude to look at anything around balance with objectivity.

    Threads like these are pretty pointless because the balance team cannot change the core functionality of an ability/utility/traits. You're living in a dream world, man. Come back to reality.

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Curennos.9307 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    @Curennos.9307

    You want a 14,000 damage, 1500 range attack to pierce and be unaffected by blind. Seriously?

    You're just going to have groups of Deadeye's going around lasering zergs to death and perma stealthing away as soon as they get attacked.

    If the laser zerg actually reads what I wrote and acknowledges the options as different options that can be combined in several different ways, as opposed to somehow concluding that I want ALL THE THINGS, then I'll take 'em. Bonus points if they realize that adding reduced damage to pierced targets is something that could actually happen.

    In short, no. No I do not.

    I read it all.

    In my last post, I didn't mention anything about DJ being unblockable. But I hold my point that a 14k, 1500 range attack shouldn't pierce or be unaffected by blind. That's completely ridiculous.

    As for not losing malice stacks upon missing a stealth attack, I disagree. A lot of people want thief to lose stealth as well when they miss their attacks.

    Not to mention Silent Scope isn't the only way for a DE to gain stealth. So, I think a 10s cd is more than reasonable especially when you compare it to most stealth skills. For other classes, stealth skills usually have a cooldown between 10-30 seconds. Any less would mean extremely frequent re-application.

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 10, 2018

    @EpicTurtle.8571 said:
    Argument ad populum doesn't make you more correct. You're getting upvotes because this forum is a staging ground for complaining about anything that can kill a player. I didn't say Mirage was just fine. Just that all of your changes were inane pabulum based on perfect world addition under false assumptions and that your proof was self serving garbage with now 2/3rds of it being based off of NPCs one that can dodge but not well and one that stands there and doesn't use cleanses as well.

    Record whatever you like, it's not like you'll prove anything by beating up more golems. The only reason Mirage condition output is so over the top is the only reason it even works with how rampant and powercreeped cleanses are. But you'll just shortsightedly brush that off because you're so arrogantly convinced that you're right. You did some terrible math and assumed it applies to the real world 100% of the time. You're the prime example of confidence in misinformation.

    I took Latin in high school too. ^-^

    Again, like I said earlier, I made a few typos but I fixed them as people pointed them out. Everything else should be correct and I have ALL of my reasons/points backed up by the Official GW2 Wiki and video/picture proof if needed.

    So, no, I don't think I'm misinformed especially since I've been multi-classing at the top end of PvP since the game came out 6 years ago. (Again, I have proof for this as well)

    But by all means, keep going. One of your arguments that I was being "dishonest" was because "saying 7 stacks of torment is disingenuous when 2 are the Ether Bolt from clones." Even though I clearly stated EXACTLY that in the mesmer section of the OP. Good try, but it doesn't mean much.

    And just because something is "easily dodgeable" doesn't mean it's balanced. By this logic, a skill that does 100k damage to 5 people would be balanced if the time to cast it was 2 seconds long.

    Not to mention that it's pretty bad when the only justification you have for over-tuned skills is the skill level and reaction time of the player on the receiving end of them. LOL

  • Take a look on ranger suggestions ,you will be surprised . Because its another thread 'buff my main nerf others' that is became popular practice for some reason

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @tinyreborn.1938 said:

    Take a look on ranger suggestions ,you will be surprised . Because its another thread 'buff my main nerf others' that is became popular practice for some reason

    And take a look at my responses to concerns regarding the ranger section.

    I said that maybe removing Fortifying Bond altogether would be better than moving it out of Nature Magic. I also said that removing the stunbreak/stability from my suggestion to OWP would be also be better.

    As for Leader of the Pack, this is a nerf to personal sustain, but a buff to team utility. This makes us:

    1. Weaker in 1v1s, which is currently where we're currently OVER-performing.
    2. Stronger in team fights, which is where we're currently UNDER-performing.

    Like I've said for the umpteenth time, I will correct any mistakes I've made regarding the function of skills. I am also open to suggestions/discussions. However, keep in mind that these arguments can go both ways with each person providing their reasons/justifications for their points. If they don't, or they call me out for no reason, I will respond in kind.

  • EpicTurtle.8571EpicTurtle.8571 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 10, 2018

    Good lord, this is a waste of time. My issue is not with your typos. It's with the lack of understanding despite your constant claims of multiclassing when by your admission you barely even log on anymore. The 2 stacks from clones will maybe last 3 seconds. It's ridiculous to even consider them as part of Illusionary Counter since you don't even have to trigger the torment most of the time. Any argument to reduce the torment from it is literally just pandering to players who can't stop attacking for 2 seconds. All of your other points aside from maybe Axes of Symmetry were summarily proven flawed by other people, your problem is that you don't listen. You just cling to a theoretical perfect world 100% condition application and whine that it is, 'just mesmer mains that don't get it omegalul'. Mesmer mains that consistently make suggestions on how to properly reign in Mesmer without making suggestions as ridiculous as 'what if we made a GM trait absolutely pointless and borderline cosmetic because a few players get confused sometimes'. Paraphrasing of course, but still the same as if I suggested that we change a GM trait in every other elite spec to equate to making the player a little more sparkly.

    And again videos of you beating up NPCs don't constitute actual proof. All it does is show the flawed perfect scenario assumptions you're operating under.

    Im done. You obviously won't listen

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 10, 2018

    @EpicTurtle.8571 said:
    Good lord, this is a waste of time. My issue is not with your typos. It's with the lack of understanding despite your constant claims of multiclassing when by your admission you barely even log on anymore. The 2 stacks from clones will maybe last 3 seconds. It's ridiculous to even consider them as part of Illusionary Counter since you don't even have to trigger the torment most of the time. Any argument to reduce the torment from it is literally just pandering to players who can't stop attacking for 2 seconds. All of your other points aside from maybe Axes of Symmetry were summarily proven flawed by other people, your problem is that you don't listen. You just cling to a theoretical perfect world 100% condition application and whine that it is, 'just mesmer mains that don't get it omegalul'. Mesmer mains that consistently make suggestions on how to properly reign in Mesmer without making suggestions as ridiculous as 'what if we made a GM trait absolutely pointless and borderline cosmetic because a few players get confused sometimes'. Paraphrasing of course, but still the same as if I suggested that we change a GM trait in every other elite spec to equate to making the player a little more sparkly.

    And again videos of you beating up NPCs don't constitute actual proof. All it does is show the flawed perfect scenario assumptions you're operating under.

    I stream Mon-Thurs for 1-3 hours every session each week. However, I only play this game to stream. So yes, in comparison to how much I used to play this game in the past, I barely log on anymore. Regardless, I am still able to place highly on the leaderboard even while solo quing and can still fight against top players without an issue.

    Mesmer condi application is overpowered. It doesn't matter WHO you're fighting. A bronze player should have just as much of a chance against a Mirage in the same division as a platinum player should. However, this is not the case. If you know how to play condi Mirage properly, you will completely dominate every class/player that ISN'T a seasoned duelist.

    And my clip of me killing an actual player didn't count because "he wasn't good enough" ????? Hello Mr. Mesmer but in case you didn't realize, s/d thieves are a counter to your class.

  • EpicTurtle.8571EpicTurtle.8571 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 10, 2018

    This was, not surprisingly, as unproductive as something can possibly be. I'm not capable of fixing your bias. Iirc you're the 80% phantasm damage reduction guy, I should have figured this was a lost cause. The fact that you think Mirage is so OP that it didn't matter that the thief you fought was so poorly skilled is a testament to your bias.

    Again I'm not saying Mirage is just fine. It's that your changes are meh at best and absurd at worst.

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 10, 2018

    @EpicTurtle.8571 said:
    This was, not surprisingly, as unproductive as something can possibly be. I'm not capable of fixing your bias. Iirc you're the 80% phantasm damage reduction guy, I should have figured this was a lost cause. The fact that you think Mirage is so OP that it didn't matter that the thief you fought was so poorly skilled is a testament to your bias.

    Again I'm not saying Mirage is just fine. It's that your changes are meh at best and absurd at worst.

    80% of 14,000 damage is 2800 damage.

    Are you saying a spammable 14,000 damage + taunt on 5 people is balanced?

    LOL

    Funny. After I end stream, I'll link a 1v2 I won in my first match of the day as condi Mirage. ^-^

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