List of Problem Traits/Skills + Possible Solutions (In-Depth) - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

List of Problem Traits/Skills + Possible Solutions (In-Depth)

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    • Problem: This trait gives Deadeyes' extremely easy and frequent access to stealth with no way to stop them. Black Powder + Bound also has the same issue. They give thieves high access to uninterruptible stealth.

    The combination of Bounding Dodger and Black Powder is actually interrupt-able. The evade window does not cover the full duration of the Bound animation, so you can interrupt them before they actually gain the stealth from the combo field. Additionally, it suffers from the same issue that Heartseeker does when stacking stealth in the Black Powder field, and that's if someone is standing in Black Powder, there is a high chance you might accidentally hit them, and take yourself out of stealth.

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kawloon Fuathach.3807 said:

    • Problem: This trait gives Deadeyes' extremely easy and frequent access to stealth with no way to stop them. Black Powder + Bound also has the same issue. They give thieves high access to uninterruptible stealth.

    The combination of Bounding Dodger and Black Powder is actually interrupt-able. The evade window does not cover the full duration of the Bound animation, so you can interrupt them before they actually gain the stealth from the combo field. Additionally, it suffers from the same issue that Heartseeker does when stacking stealth in the Black Powder field, and that's if someone is standing in Black Powder, there is a high chance you might accidentally hit them, and take yourself out of stealth.

    I'll fix it, thanks!

  • These suggestions are balanced, therefore, they will not happen. I don`t play enough anymore to even know this question; are thieves still able to spam stealth attacks (ie. backstab) while stealthed until it hits or does block/blind finally reveal them after the first fail?

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ruufio.1496 said:
    These suggestions are balanced, therefore, they will not happen. I don`t play enough anymore to even know this question; are thieves still able to spam stealth attacks (ie. backstab) while stealthed until it hits or does block/blind finally reveal them after the first fail?

    Thanks! I'm crossing my fingers someone at Anet sees this thread ^^

    As for your question, no. Missing a stealth attack doesn't reveal the thief. Death's Judgment (rifle stealth attack) applies reveal on the thief when they start casting it, so that's the only exception.

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    Ranger

    Winter’s Bite

    • Problem: 10 second duration weakness on a 10 second cooldown, Enfeebling Strike doesn't get removed if the attack misses.
    • Solution: Reduce weakness duration to 4 seconds, remove the Enfeebling Strike if the attack misses.

    Fortifying Bond

    • Problem: It’s in the same trait line as Windborne Notes. This causes too much synergy between boonshare, warhorn, and One Wolf Pack.
    • Solution: Merge Loud Whistle and Pet’s Prowess in Beastmastery and move Fortifying Bond from Nature Magic to Beastmastery into the now-empty minor trait slot. Make a new minor trait for the empty slot in Nature Magic. Since there is massive synergy between Hunter's Call, One Wolf Pack, Plasma, and Fortifying Bond , this change will cause Warhorn + OWP rangers to lose access to boonshare between them and their pet. This results in significantly shorter boon uptimes and less damage as now, rangers will be forced to choose between boonshare (no longer in Nature Magic) or high damage (CotW + OWP) rather than having both.

    One Wolf Pack

    • Problem: Lasts 12 seconds when traited with Leader of the Pack (20% uptime). This encourages spamming auto attacks/quick hitting attacks for the entire duration (in other words, mashing your 1 key for 12 seconds).
    • Solution: Reduce the duration to 5 seconds and the cooldown to 40 seconds (12% uptime). Give it a stunbreak + 2 stacks of stability for 5 seconds on use.

    Moa Stance

    • Problem: Lasts 15 seconds when traited with Leader of the Pack (60% uptime).
    • Solution: Increase the cooldown to 30 seconds (33% uptime).

    Leader of the Pack

    • Problem: For a support trait, it actually benefits the user a lot more than it benefits allies.
    • Solution: Reduce Personal Duration to 100%, increase Allied Duration to 100%, add 20% cooldown reduction to Stances.

    So....I don't think you understand that ranger isn't just really strong because of consume plasma, it has insane trait synergy in each of soulbeast, nature magic, beastmastery and wilderness survival and then some really strong ones with each other.

    Also you're fooling no-one, you're buffing one wolf pack at the same time as nerfing it, you know how many stunbreaks it would give the already evade spamming, hard to lock down soulbeast? 4 or more and plenty of stab to boot because they would go beast mastery and wilderness survival because you just made beast mastery unquestionably the best choice when it was already a good variation.

    What this doesn't solve is the incredible boon uptime with consume plasma, fortifying bond and Fresh Reinforcement, which is one of the biggest offenders. Nerfing consume plasma to 5-6 boons is what is needed at the very least. Ranger needs some cool down increases to split blade and winters bite alongwith the reduction to weakness, lesser muddy terrain to be half duration and has a 2s interval, companions defence having an ICD of 10s (because with natural vigor you get a dodge every 7s) with a duration increase to 3s.

    These changes suggested by you only shift the problem onto a new build, they're deliberately not addressing the issue. Whatever you do with fortifying bond you will choose that line, it's best kept in nature magic than in beast mastery which would give 25 might, extra quickness, +150 stats, damage and movement speed buffs and extra weakness.

    I stand with Mo.

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ovark.2514 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    Thief

    Flanking Strike -> Larcenous Strike

    • Problem: Both attacks are unblockable.
    • Solution: Remove the Unblockable effect from Larcenous Strike. This still encourages skilled gameplay. If an enemy uses a block or has Aegis, the thief can use Flanking Strike and wait for the block/boon to end before using Larcenous Strike. This change prevents this attack from being spammed repeatedly even when an enemy is using a defensive cooldown.

    Death’s Judgement

    • Problem: For a skill that hits incredibly hard, it should not be unblockable.
    • Solution: Remove the Unblockable effect.

    Silent Scope

    • Problem: This trait gives Deadeyes' extremely easy and frequent access to stealth with no way to stop them. Black Powder + Bound also has the same issue. They give thieves high access to uninterruptible stealth.
    • Solution: Add a 10 second internal cooldown and turn this skill into a buff on the thief’s bar when it’s active. This gives an indicator to the thief and the enemy player when it’s ready to be used.

    Dagger Storm

    • Problem: A 4.5 second evade (9 seconds if recharged with Improvisation) shouldn’t count towards Capture-Point Contribution.
    • Solution: Prevent Capture-Point Contribution.

    Someone finally said the obvious thing. No two part skill should have both parts be unblockable. There is nothing more frustrating than fighting a sd thief when all they do is spam three but you feel like you need to dodge every attack because if you don't you will take absurd damage.

    ALSO the dagger storm is some ripe bull kitten

    OK so do you know WHY S/D became meta and has now stayed meta? The answer is not to remove the unblockable from FS/LS, it fills an anti bunker role and removing the unblockable will shelve it again.

    Yes maybe dagger storm should be looked at, maybe prevent point capture, maybe just reduce the damage a little, not sure. I'm inclined to leave it for the time being because it's not a major issue when you consider a lot of classes can do the same damage in a fraction of the time.

    I stand with Mo.

  • Dante.1763Dante.1763 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I know alot of pvpers dont really care about what happens in PVE(the hard core ones at least), but some of the proposed ranger changes would make it really hard to be wanted in a group on ranger again :(

    Ember Wandertooth(SB), Lucina Fallenflame(Weaver), Kianda Redpaw(Guardian), Kingslayer, Light in the Dark.
    Why Guild Wars is called Guild Wars

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 3, 2018

    @Dante.1763 said:
    I know alot of pvpers dont really care about what happens in PVE(the hard core ones at least), but some of the proposed ranger changes would make it really hard to be wanted in a group on ranger again :(

    Hi! Skill splits between gamemodes would prevent PvE from being affected. ^-^

  • Dante.1763Dante.1763 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Dante.1763 said:
    I know alot of pvpers dont really care about what happens in PVE(the hard core ones at least), but some of the proposed ranger changes would make it really hard to be wanted in a group on ranger again :(

    Hi! Skill splits between gamemodes would prevent PvE from being affected. ^-^

    This is true, but not all skills are split as nice as it would be if they where(probably would have stopped my ele from being turned into a uselessly equipped character), so unless they did so my point still stands! :D

    Ember Wandertooth(SB), Lucina Fallenflame(Weaver), Kianda Redpaw(Guardian), Kingslayer, Light in the Dark.
    Why Guild Wars is called Guild Wars

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 3, 2018

    @Dante.1763 said:
    I know alot of pvpers dont really care about what happens in PVE(the hard core ones at least), but some of the proposed ranger changes would make it really hard to be wanted in a group on ranger again :(

    Considering most pugs haven't realised that 2 druids is one of the dumbest things to run in nearly all encounters I don't think rangers are in danger just yet. Even on the more "elitist" end where they ask for full meta comps and a billion LI they have at least 1 ranger in every raid group.

    Here's the blunt truth though, the game needs a 20% damage reduction across the board. PvP, WvW, PvE the whole lot on every class while doing something similar to defensive cool downs and sustain. You can then adjust boss health if needed so it keeps the same time to kill as before the damage reductions so nothing really changes for PvE except you hit for a few hundred less on your 7k crits.

    Why? It solves a lot of issues with power creep and future problems with new traits/skill interactions keeping this level of power creep and helps curb invalidating older content.

    Edit: To clarify 20% increase to cool downs on defensive skills, 20% reduction to sustained healing/defensive boon duration. Obviously 20% damage reduction can also include longer cool downs, reducing offensive boon access and duration as well as straight damage modifier reduction.

    I stand with Mo.

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Dante.1763 said:
    I know alot of pvpers dont really care about what happens in PVE(the hard core ones at least), but some of the proposed ranger changes would make it really hard to be wanted in a group on ranger again :(

    Considering most pugs haven't realised that 2 druids is one of the dumbest things to run in nearly all encounters I don't think rangers are in danger just yet. Even on the more "elitist" end where they ask for full meta comps and a billion LI they have at least 1 ranger in every raid group.

    Here's the blunt truth though, the game needs a 20% damage reduction across the board. PvP, WvW, PvE the whole lot on every class while doing something similar to defensive cool downs and sustain. You can then adjust boss health if needed so it keeps the same time to kill as before the damage reductions so nothing really changes for PvE except you hit for a few hundred less on your 7k crits.

    Why? It solves a lot of issues with power creep and future problems with new traits/skill interactions keeping this level of power creep and helps curb invalidating older content.

    A 20% damage reduction across the board seems like a fantastic way to introduce another bunker meta.

    Damage AND survivability have been increased over time. Nerfing one without the other will cause a lot of issues. Also, flat % nerfs isn't a good way to do it either.

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 3, 2018

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Dante.1763 said:
    I know alot of pvpers dont really care about what happens in PVE(the hard core ones at least), but some of the proposed ranger changes would make it really hard to be wanted in a group on ranger again :(

    Considering most pugs haven't realised that 2 druids is one of the dumbest things to run in nearly all encounters I don't think rangers are in danger just yet. Even on the more "elitist" end where they ask for full meta comps and a billion LI they have at least 1 ranger in every raid group.

    Here's the blunt truth though, the game needs a 20% damage reduction across the board. PvP, WvW, PvE the whole lot on every class while doing something similar to defensive cool downs and sustain. You can then adjust boss health if needed so it keeps the same time to kill as before the damage reductions so nothing really changes for PvE except you hit for a few hundred less on your 7k crits.

    Why? It solves a lot of issues with power creep and future problems with new traits/skill interactions keeping this level of power creep and helps curb invalidating older content.

    A 20% damage reduction across the board seems like a fantastic way to introduce another bunker meta.

    Damage AND survivability have been increased over time. Nerfing one without the other will cause a lot of issues. Also, flat % nerfs isn't a good way to do it either.

    Put in bold the part you skimmed over, post was edited to add clarification to what I already implied via the bold text.

    Edit: Also lol at this bunker meta excuse, damage atm is FAR TOO HIGH, you could happily hack away 20% off all damage and we wouldn't get bunker.

    I stand with Mo.

  • Dante.1763Dante.1763 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Dante.1763 said:
    I know alot of pvpers dont really care about what happens in PVE(the hard core ones at least), but some of the proposed ranger changes would make it really hard to be wanted in a group on ranger again :(

    Considering most pugs haven't realised that 2 druids is one of the dumbest things to run in nearly all encounters I don't think rangers are in danger just yet. Even on the more "elitist" end where they ask for full meta comps and a billion LI they have at least 1 ranger in every raid group.

    Here's the blunt truth though, the game needs a 20% damage reduction across the board. PvP, WvW, PvE the whole lot on every class while doing something similar to defensive cool downs and sustain. You can then adjust boss health if needed so it keeps the same time to kill as before the damage reductions so nothing really changes for PvE except you hit for a few hundred less on your 7k crits.

    Why? It solves a lot of issues with power creep and future problems with new traits/skill interactions keeping this level of power creep and helps curb invalidating older content.

    Edit: To clarify 20% increase to cool downs on defensive skills, 20% reduction to sustained healing/defensive boon duration. Obviously 20% damage reduction can also include longer cool downs, reducing offensive boon access and duration as well as straight damage modifier reduction.

    Ah, see i dont run druids, i run a Condi SB(so i dont see 7k crits, ever, Condis already do way less DPS now, and thanks to the invuln change they arent wanted anymore cause they do less DPS overall, imagine that..) for my raid group, and to even be able to be allowed in any of the groups im a part of i need those skills up there as they are now The Elite Skill for example is one the most major components of my build, the extra group damage it does is a massive boon that my build offers, and if its duration got reduced, id be replaced with another person entirely until i could come up with another class which just isnt possible for me.

    So, if you just change the skills and at the same time dont change the bosses(this would need to be done) classes /would/ get kicked out of content again, which is terrible.

    I do agree the powercreep is bad, but unless they do a total balance overhaul of the entire game, any changes arent going to be to great overall.

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Dante.1763 said:
    I know alot of pvpers dont really care about what happens in PVE(the hard core ones at least), but some of the proposed ranger changes would make it really hard to be wanted in a group on ranger again :(

    Considering most pugs haven't realised that 2 druids is one of the dumbest things to run in nearly all encounters I don't think rangers are in danger just yet. Even on the more "elitist" end where they ask for full meta comps and a billion LI they have at least 1 ranger in every raid group.

    Here's the blunt truth though, the game needs a 20% damage reduction across the board. PvP, WvW, PvE the whole lot on every class while doing something similar to defensive cool downs and sustain. You can then adjust boss health if needed so it keeps the same time to kill as before the damage reductions so nothing really changes for PvE except you hit for a few hundred less on your 7k crits.

    Why? It solves a lot of issues with power creep and future problems with new traits/skill interactions keeping this level of power creep and helps curb invalidating older content.

    A 20% damage reduction across the board seems like a fantastic way to introduce another bunker meta.

    Damage AND survivability have been increased over time. Nerfing one without the other will cause a lot of issues. Also, flat % nerfs isn't a good way to do it either.

    Put in bold the part you skimmed over, post was edited to add clarification to what I already implied via the bold text.

    Edit: Also lol at this bunker meta excuse, damage atm is FAR TOO HIGH, you could happily hack away 20% off all damage and we wouldn't get bunker.

    I agree for PVP and WvW you could for sure reduce the amount of damage by up to 20% and it would make the game alot more fun.

    decided not to remove qoutes since i was addressing two different points

    Ember Wandertooth(SB), Lucina Fallenflame(Weaver), Kianda Redpaw(Guardian), Kingslayer, Light in the Dark.
    Why Guild Wars is called Guild Wars

  • When was flanking strike made to be unblockable anyway? Where did my game go with only having to avoid larcenous strike? Of course flanking strike shouldn't be unblockable - neither should mirror blade be unblockable which was only made unblockable because reflect could turn someone into a tornado, neither should spear of justice be unblockable or a ton of other things.

    All damage, healing, debilitating conditions, amount of abilities per trait and cooldowns need to be decreased by 50% (cooldowns increased by 50%) Every patch for years you would see "decreased cooldown by xx" what a joke. We need vanilla gw2 with the bug fixes. Though... I do love my scrapper.

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Dante.1763 said:
    I know alot of pvpers dont really care about what happens in PVE(the hard core ones at least), but some of the proposed ranger changes would make it really hard to be wanted in a group on ranger again :(

    Considering most pugs haven't realised that 2 druids is one of the dumbest things to run in nearly all encounters I don't think rangers are in danger just yet. Even on the more "elitist" end where they ask for full meta comps and a billion LI they have at least 1 ranger in every raid group.

    Here's the blunt truth though, the game needs a 20% damage reduction across the board. PvP, WvW, PvE the whole lot on every class while doing something similar to defensive cool downs and sustain. You can then adjust boss health if needed so it keeps the same time to kill as before the damage reductions so nothing really changes for PvE except you hit for a few hundred less on your 7k crits.

    Why? It solves a lot of issues with power creep and future problems with new traits/skill interactions keeping this level of power creep and helps curb invalidating older content.

    A 20% damage reduction across the board seems like a fantastic way to introduce another bunker meta.

    Damage AND survivability have been increased over time. Nerfing one without the other will cause a lot of issues. Also, flat % nerfs isn't a good way to do it either.

    Put in bold the part you skimmed over, post was edited to add clarification to what I already implied via the bold text.

    Edit: Also lol at this bunker meta excuse, damage atm is FAR TOO HIGH, you could happily hack away 20% off all damage and we wouldn't get bunker.

    Survivability is also too high.

    Answer these please:

    1. Are Soulbeasts easy to kill?
    2. Are Holosmiths easy to kill?
    3. Are Spellbreakers easy to kill?
    4. Are Mirages easy to kill?
    5. Are Firebrands easy to kill?

    etc. etc.

    In case you didn't realize, nerfing damage by 20% would make them even harder to kill. And, since 2+2=4, if you can't kill anything, you get a bunker meta where nothing dies.

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Dante.1763 said:
    I know alot of pvpers dont really care about what happens in PVE(the hard core ones at least), but some of the proposed ranger changes would make it really hard to be wanted in a group on ranger again :(

    Considering most pugs haven't realised that 2 druids is one of the dumbest things to run in nearly all encounters I don't think rangers are in danger just yet. Even on the more "elitist" end where they ask for full meta comps and a billion LI they have at least 1 ranger in every raid group.

    Here's the blunt truth though, the game needs a 20% damage reduction across the board. PvP, WvW, PvE the whole lot on every class while doing something similar to defensive cool downs and sustain. You can then adjust boss health if needed so it keeps the same time to kill as before the damage reductions so nothing really changes for PvE except you hit for a few hundred less on your 7k crits.

    Why? It solves a lot of issues with power creep and future problems with new traits/skill interactions keeping this level of power creep and helps curb invalidating older content.

    A 20% damage reduction across the board seems like a fantastic way to introduce another bunker meta.

    Damage AND survivability have been increased over time. Nerfing one without the other will cause a lot of issues. Also, flat % nerfs isn't a good way to do it either.

    Put in bold the part you skimmed over, post was edited to add clarification to what I already implied via the bold text.

    Edit: Also lol at this bunker meta excuse, damage atm is FAR TOO HIGH, you could happily hack away 20% off all damage and we wouldn't get bunker.

    You realize it was only May when Chronobunkers were unkillable monsters and the only reason they left the meta was because their damage was heavily reduced to appropriate levels given their survivability. Heck Boonbeast right now is an almost unkillable monsters.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion.

  • I'd like to see daggerstorm bring unable to have it's cooldown reset by improvisation. That's the only fix I'd think it's necessary

    ~ God Tier Guardian

  • babazhook.6805babazhook.6805 Member ✭✭✭✭

    One issue I see is people tend to believe there a 1 to 1 comparison of damage versus defenses and sustain. That not the case. Damage HAS to always be larger then the various defensive tools or a kill will never be made. When you are talking about damage at the top end you are talking builds that tend to sacrifice for that damage. When you cut back the peak damage out and do so on a 1v1 basis then those persons who sacrifice defense for offense no longer gain enough advantahge to make it worthwhile. This leads them to survival mode which means bunker meta no one dying.

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dante.1763 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Dante.1763 said:
    I know alot of pvpers dont really care about what happens in PVE(the hard core ones at least), but some of the proposed ranger changes would make it really hard to be wanted in a group on ranger again :(

    Considering most pugs haven't realised that 2 druids is one of the dumbest things to run in nearly all encounters I don't think rangers are in danger just yet. Even on the more "elitist" end where they ask for full meta comps and a billion LI they have at least 1 ranger in every raid group.

    Here's the blunt truth though, the game needs a 20% damage reduction across the board. PvP, WvW, PvE the whole lot on every class while doing something similar to defensive cool downs and sustain. You can then adjust boss health if needed so it keeps the same time to kill as before the damage reductions so nothing really changes for PvE except you hit for a few hundred less on your 7k crits.

    Why? It solves a lot of issues with power creep and future problems with new traits/skill interactions keeping this level of power creep and helps curb invalidating older content.

    Edit: To clarify 20% increase to cool downs on defensive skills, 20% reduction to sustained healing/defensive boon duration. Obviously 20% damage reduction can also include longer cool downs, reducing offensive boon access and duration as well as straight damage modifier reduction.

    Ah, see i dont run druids, i run a Condi SB(so i dont see 7k crits, ever, Condis already do way less DPS now, and thanks to the invuln change they arent wanted anymore cause they do less DPS overall, imagine that..) for my raid group, and to even be able to be allowed in any of the groups im a part of i need those skills up there as they are now The Elite Skill for example is one the most major components of my build, the extra group damage it does is a massive boon that my build offers, and if its duration got reduced, id be replaced with another person entirely until i could come up with another class which just isnt possible for me.

    So, if you just change the skills and at the same time dont change the bosses(this would need to be done) classes /would/ get kicked out of content again, which is terrible.

    I do agree the powercreep is bad, but unless they do a total balance overhaul of the entire game, any changes arent going to be to great overall.

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Dante.1763 said:
    I know alot of pvpers dont really care about what happens in PVE(the hard core ones at least), but some of the proposed ranger changes would make it really hard to be wanted in a group on ranger again :(

    Considering most pugs haven't realised that 2 druids is one of the dumbest things to run in nearly all encounters I don't think rangers are in danger just yet. Even on the more "elitist" end where they ask for full meta comps and a billion LI they have at least 1 ranger in every raid group.

    Here's the blunt truth though, the game needs a 20% damage reduction across the board. PvP, WvW, PvE the whole lot on every class while doing something similar to defensive cool downs and sustain. You can then adjust boss health if needed so it keeps the same time to kill as before the damage reductions so nothing really changes for PvE except you hit for a few hundred less on your 7k crits.

    Why? It solves a lot of issues with power creep and future problems with new traits/skill interactions keeping this level of power creep and helps curb invalidating older content.

    A 20% damage reduction across the board seems like a fantastic way to introduce another bunker meta.

    Damage AND survivability have been increased over time. Nerfing one without the other will cause a lot of issues. Also, flat % nerfs isn't a good way to do it either.

    Put in bold the part you skimmed over, post was edited to add clarification to what I already implied via the bold text.

    Edit: Also lol at this bunker meta excuse, damage atm is FAR TOO HIGH, you could happily hack away 20% off all damage and we wouldn't get bunker.

    I agree for PVP and WvW you could for sure reduce the amount of damage by up to 20% and it would make the game alot more fun.

    decided not to remove qoutes since i was addressing two different points

    @Dante.1763 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Dante.1763 said:
    I know alot of pvpers dont really care about what happens in PVE(the hard core ones at least), but some of the proposed ranger changes would make it really hard to be wanted in a group on ranger again :(

    Considering most pugs haven't realised that 2 druids is one of the dumbest things to run in nearly all encounters I don't think rangers are in danger just yet. Even on the more "elitist" end where they ask for full meta comps and a billion LI they have at least 1 ranger in every raid group.

    Here's the blunt truth though, the game needs a 20% damage reduction across the board. PvP, WvW, PvE the whole lot on every class while doing something similar to defensive cool downs and sustain. You can then adjust boss health if needed so it keeps the same time to kill as before the damage reductions so nothing really changes for PvE except you hit for a few hundred less on your 7k crits.

    Why? It solves a lot of issues with power creep and future problems with new traits/skill interactions keeping this level of power creep and helps curb invalidating older content.

    Edit: To clarify 20% increase to cool downs on defensive skills, 20% reduction to sustained healing/defensive boon duration. Obviously 20% damage reduction can also include longer cool downs, reducing offensive boon access and duration as well as straight damage modifier reduction.

    Ah, see i dont run druids, i run a Condi SB(so i dont see 7k crits, ever, Condis already do way less DPS now, and thanks to the invuln change they arent wanted anymore cause they do less DPS overall, imagine that..) for my raid group, and to even be able to be allowed in any of the groups im a part of i need those skills up there as they are now The Elite Skill for example is one the most major components of my build, the extra group damage it does is a massive boon that my build offers, and if its duration got reduced, id be replaced with another person entirely until i could come up with another class which just isnt possible for me.

    So, if you just change the skills and at the same time dont change the bosses(this would need to be done) classes /would/ get kicked out of content again, which is terrible.

    I do agree the powercreep is bad, but unless they do a total balance overhaul of the entire game, any changes arent going to be to great overall.

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Dante.1763 said:
    I know alot of pvpers dont really care about what happens in PVE(the hard core ones at least), but some of the proposed ranger changes would make it really hard to be wanted in a group on ranger again :(

    Considering most pugs haven't realised that 2 druids is one of the dumbest things to run in nearly all encounters I don't think rangers are in danger just yet. Even on the more "elitist" end where they ask for full meta comps and a billion LI they have at least 1 ranger in every raid group.

    Here's the blunt truth though, the game needs a 20% damage reduction across the board. PvP, WvW, PvE the whole lot on every class while doing something similar to defensive cool downs and sustain. You can then adjust boss health if needed so it keeps the same time to kill as before the damage reductions so nothing really changes for PvE except you hit for a few hundred less on your 7k crits.

    Why? It solves a lot of issues with power creep and future problems with new traits/skill interactions keeping this level of power creep and helps curb invalidating older content.

    A 20% damage reduction across the board seems like a fantastic way to introduce another bunker meta.

    Damage AND survivability have been increased over time. Nerfing one without the other will cause a lot of issues. Also, flat % nerfs isn't a good way to do it either.

    Put in bold the part you skimmed over, post was edited to add clarification to what I already implied via the bold text.

    Edit: Also lol at this bunker meta excuse, damage atm is FAR TOO HIGH, you could happily hack away 20% off all damage and we wouldn't get bunker.

    I agree for PVP and WvW you could for sure reduce the amount of damage by up to 20% and it would make the game alot more fun.

    decided not to remove qoutes since i was addressing two different points

    Power and condition soulbeast is acceptable in any raid that is not in a competition or going for a record run if played well (just like any class) and will not make your group fail. Almost any build you can make work at an acceptable level, yes even core mesmer is capable of ~20k which is more than enough to clear raids fast and with no risk.

    It's fine, I understand.

    I stand with Mo.

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 3, 2018

    @babazhook.6805 said:
    One issue I see is people tend to believe there a 1 to 1 comparison of damage versus defenses and sustain. That not the case. Damage HAS to always be larger then the various defensive tools or a kill will never be made. When you are talking about damage at the top end you are talking builds that tend to sacrifice for that damage. When you cut back the peak damage out and do so on a 1v1 basis then those persons who sacrifice defense for offense no longer gain enough advantahge to make it worthwhile. This leads them to survival mode which means bunker meta no one dying.

    This would be fine if these builds were going all in on damage or were actually taking damage lines like most mesmer/thief builds. However you have builds like holo and soulbeast where they take no damage lines and have 2-3 defensive skills while having several passive proc defences doing the same damage as builds taking damage lines. By in large they aren't sacrificing servivability for damage, they're straight up getting more and more utility which translate to increasing both.

    This is however why I said nerfing damage, healing and defences in my orginal post. I still think you could (if you wanted I personally would advocate a more varied approach and as stated defense+sustain as well) do a flat -20% damage done to players and you'd not end up with a bunker meta, nothing atm can survive 2v1 for very long.

    I stand with Mo.

  • Chaith.8256Chaith.8256 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Holo Leap is 450 movement skill, 600 range attack. You might wanna edit your commentary on that skill

    twitch.tv/chaithh
    Forum Lord Chaith

  • Bigpapasmurf.5623Bigpapasmurf.5623 Member ✭✭✭✭

    As a Mirage main, I can agree with everything mentioned for the mentioned classes, however there are more classes that need to be mentioned.

    Red = Dead...or someone runs away. Either way it's gone.
    twitch.tv/mc_celestia
    Lover of Jumping puzzles, Squirrels, WvW, and Taimi
    Co-Leader of SOmething inAPpropriate {SOAP}

  • @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Dante.1763 said:
    I know alot of pvpers dont really care about what happens in PVE(the hard core ones at least), but some of the proposed ranger changes would make it really hard to be wanted in a group on ranger again :(

    Hi! Skill splits between gamemodes would prevent PvE from being affected. ^-^

    Because that worked so well every time a pet got nerfed because of PVP whining...

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 3, 2018

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    Mesmer

    Ineptitude

    • Problem: Combined with Blinding Dissipation, the confusion and blind application Mirage has access to is extremely oppressive.
    • Solution: Reduce the confusion per blind to 1 stack.

    Duelist’s Discipline

    • Problem: Combined with Sharper Images, this trait means that Phantasmal Duelist alone can apply anywhere from 8-16 stacks of long-duration bleeding. Also, coupled with Mirage’s exceptionally high access to CC’s, this means that pistol skills can recharge nearly instantly.
    • Solution: Currently, this trait bleeds on EVERY hit from pistol attacks from you and your illusions. Instead, change this to 33% chance to bleed on CRITICAL hits like most other bleeding-related traits. Also, remove the 25% cooldown reduction on interrupt and make it a flat 20% cooldown reduction on pistol skills.

    Sharper Images

    • Problem: Again, this trait is 100% chance on critical hits to apply a 5-8 second bleed (Carrion vs. Deadshot amulet). This results in insane amounts of bleeding stacks with little effort on the mesmer’s part.
    • Solution: Similar to Sharpened Edges, Sharpshooter, Barbed Precision, and Bloodlust (basically every single bleed-on-attack related trait), make it 33% on critical hits and reduce the bleeding duration to 3 seconds because the effect can trigger from 3 different sources.

    Infinite Horizon

    Mirage Cloak

    • Problem: Dodging while disabled should not exist.
    • Solution: Remove the ability to dodge while disabled.

    Elusive Mind

    • Problem: Stunbreak on dodge should not exist.
    • Solution: Remove the stunbreak and exhaustion. Add a 20% cooldown reduction to Deception skills.

    Illusionary Ambush

    • Problem: This skill is a target break, free Mirage Cloak, and ambush attack (x4 with 3 illusions) on a 20 second cooldown that can be used while disabled.
    • Solution: Increase the cooldown to 30 seconds similar to Lightning Reflexes and Roll for Initiative.

    Axes of Symmetry

    • Problem: This skill applies 9 stacks of confusion for 3-5 seconds (Carrion vs. Deadshot amulet), evades, teleports, leaps, and target breaks every 8 seconds while traited.
    • Solution: Increase the cooldown to 15 seconds (12 seconds while traited) and reduce the 6 stacks of player confusion to 3.

    Confusing Images

    • Problem: This skill has extraordinarily high base power damage (higher than Rapid Fire or Maul and can hit for 4000 damage alone on Deadshot amulet without any investment into power or critical damage.
    • Solution: Lower the base damage from 2000 to 800.

    Illusionary Counter

    • Problem: This skill is a 4.75 second cooldown, 2 second duration block that summons 2 clones and applies 7 stacks of torment (5 on trigger, 1 per clone).
    • Solution: Increase the cooldown to 10 seconds (8 seconds while traited) and reduce the torment on trigger to 3.

    Confusion isn't really an issue after they nerfed the duration to 3s, there's not a lot of ways to extend that duration too much longer than 4s. Torment is a bigger issue, look at the application and damage formula for it. Ineptitude isn't a big issue.

    Duellist Discipline...seriously? It's a weak phantasm and you have to trait it to do the weakest condition in the game. Interrupting is easy when you fight idiots who just spam spam spam like most do now. Rewarding interrupts is needed as the counter is pretty easy especially with the prevalence of stability. This is a non issue.

    Sharper Images, OK if it stops the crying change it to 33% chance on crit but keep the duration. However when comparing traits against other classes they get 20% increased bleed duration and a ton of ways to apply bleed outside the trait in large amounts and durations, core mesmer doesn't apply much bleed except on crit and random on staff, the duration isn't that long either. Sooo...it's grasping at straws as usual for mesmer complaints but whatever, fine nerf it and still die to mirage because nothing's been done about the torment.

    Infinite Horizon you base this on an ideal that there is ALWAYS 3 clones at the time of getting mirage cloak however if you fight anything with good AOE damage the illusions die very fast. The trait isn't that big of an issue outside of specific instances like the axe trait and that the axe ambush is so strong on it's own. 1 dodge will usually nullify all the ambush's from the clones. Your idea is terrible and poorly thought out, anyone lording this as being balance worthy should really think if they would like their own class having a trait for show and show only that doesn't actually do anything.

    Mirage Cloak try out removing the ability to dodge while disabled.

    Elusive mind - Don't power creep it, make it remove 1 condition on mirage cloak, no exhaustion, no stunbreak. It doesn't need to reduce deception skill cool downs.

    Illusionary Ambush is in no way comparable with something like lightning reflexes or roll for initiative. For a start you have 0 control where it puts you so you can end up in a worse place. It's also not a stun break so you're still a sitting duck. Additionally both roll for initiative and lightning reflexes can be traited for lower cool downs and additional benefits, I might add that wilderness knowledge is an insanely good trait that affects 4-5 very strong skills. Illusionary ambush isn't a big deal, it's strong but I wouldn't take it unless I wasn't using 3rd slot for portal.

    Axes of Symmetry - yes the confusion is high but I think increasing the cool down to 12s to match the number 3 skills of other weapons is better, then see if it's OK.

    Confusing Images - yeah they kept buffing the power damage because mesmer has so few main hand weapons. It does too much damage now but at the same time it's a long channelled beam and clunky. Sure a 10-20% damage reduction might be in order but not the level of reduction you're asking.

    Illusionary counter is 6s CD... Though I didn't realise they'd reduced it as much as they did in PvP/WvW. Putting it back up to 8s is all that's needed.

    Edit: Forgot to say, most of your suggestions aren't good and only show you don't really play and learn the class. The biggest issues with mirage atm are:

    Has too much torment application, an argument can be made that torment and confusion don't belong on the same build.
    Same issues as other elite specs, low cool downs on a lot of things.
    Some ambush skills have too much condition application.

    Axe and sceptre ambush skills need toning down in number of conditions applied ideally switching torment to another condition, the axe trait could also do with just being a CDR and no extra axe. Some cool downs need to go up just like all elite specs like axes of symmetry, maybe the deceptions but then the deception skills are actually really bad so would need improvement to compete with SoM and blink. Maybe do a slight reduction to chaos vortex durations, the problem is it's very well telegraphed and slow.

    I stand with Mo.

  • babazhook.6805babazhook.6805 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 3, 2018

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @babazhook.6805 said:
    One issue I see is people tend to believe there a 1 to 1 comparison of damage versus defenses and sustain. That not the case. Damage HAS to always be larger then the various defensive tools or a kill will never be made. When you are talking about damage at the top end you are talking builds that tend to sacrifice for that damage. When you cut back the peak damage out and do so on a 1v1 basis then those persons who sacrifice defense for offense no longer gain enough advantahge to make it worthwhile. This leads them to survival mode which means bunker meta no one dying.

    This would be fine if these builds were going all in on damage or were actually taking damage lines like most mesmer/thief builds. However you have builds like holo and soulbeast where they take no damage lines and have 2-3 defensive skills while having several passive proc defences doing the same damage as builds taking damage lines. By in large they aren't sacrificing servivability for damage, they're straight up getting more and more utility which translate to increasing both.

    This is however why I said nerfing damage, healing and defences in my orginal post. I still think you could (if you wanted I personally would advocate a more varied approach and as stated defense+sustain as well) do a flat -20% damage done to players and you'd not end up with a bunker meta, nothing atm can survive 2v1 for very long.

    The problem is the math still off. I agree that there are builds that can go into bunker mode yet output serious damage, but at the same time you have the fact that there are classes that can not and some of those classes take an 8k loss in health points out of the gate. So while you point to "mesmer holo" as builds that can have great sustain with high damage output as an example of builds breaking the rule of sacrifices made , a thief that starts with 8k less in health next to a warrior losing 20 percent damage will be all but useless no matter how it traited. This because 20 percent less damage is easily neutralized if that hit point advantage remains. Throw in all the other sustain measures (blocks , endure pain etc) even were these cut and there just too great a combinaion of things for that thief to overcome.

    If there a 20 percent cut to damage out, there has to be equalization in health pools along with a >then 20 percent hit on sustain. It not a 1 for 1 thing. Frankly, would such a thing to occur, I would build my warrior up to 26+k health and would never worry again about dying to any thief. I can easily add more health .

    When looking at damage done in a system where some classes have a much smaller health pool , one has to forget the raw damage and focus more on "Percentage of health one can take away from another player in a single attack). If my single attack warrior can take away 90 percent of a thief helath pool and a thief using a single attack can only take away 30 percent of my warriors, even if the raw numbers the same, warrior wins.

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    Mesmer

    Ineptitude

    • Problem: Combined with Blinding Dissipation, the confusion and blind application Mirage has access to is extremely oppressive.
    • Solution: Reduce the confusion per blind to 1 stack.

    Duelist’s Discipline

    • Problem: Combined with Sharper Images, this trait means that Phantasmal Duelist alone can apply anywhere from 8-16 stacks of long-duration bleeding. Also, coupled with Mirage’s exceptionally high access to CC’s, this means that pistol skills can recharge nearly instantly.
    • Solution: Currently, this trait bleeds on EVERY hit from pistol attacks from you and your illusions. Instead, change this to 33% chance to bleed on CRITICAL hits like most other bleeding-related traits. Also, remove the 25% cooldown reduction on interrupt and make it a flat 20% cooldown reduction on pistol skills.

    Sharper Images

    • Problem: Again, this trait is 100% chance on critical hits to apply a 5-8 second bleed (Carrion vs. Deadshot amulet). This results in insane amounts of bleeding stacks with little effort on the mesmer’s part.
    • Solution: Similar to Sharpened Edges, Sharpshooter, Barbed Precision, and Bloodlust (basically every single bleed-on-attack related trait), make it 33% on critical hits and reduce the bleeding duration to 3 seconds because the effect can trigger from 3 different sources.

    Infinite Horizon

    Mirage Cloak

    • Problem: Dodging while disabled should not exist.
    • Solution: Remove the ability to dodge while disabled.

    Elusive Mind

    • Problem: Stunbreak on dodge should not exist.
    • Solution: Remove the stunbreak and exhaustion. Add a 20% cooldown reduction to Deception skills.

    Illusionary Ambush

    • Problem: This skill is a target break, free Mirage Cloak, and ambush attack (x4 with 3 illusions) on a 20 second cooldown that can be used while disabled.
    • Solution: Increase the cooldown to 30 seconds similar to Lightning Reflexes and Roll for Initiative.

    Axes of Symmetry

    • Problem: This skill applies 9 stacks of confusion for 3-5 seconds (Carrion vs. Deadshot amulet), evades, teleports, leaps, and target breaks every 8 seconds while traited.
    • Solution: Increase the cooldown to 15 seconds (12 seconds while traited) and reduce the 6 stacks of player confusion to 3.

    Confusing Images

    • Problem: This skill has extraordinarily high base power damage (higher than Rapid Fire or Maul and can hit for 4000 damage alone on Deadshot amulet without any investment into power or critical damage.
    • Solution: Lower the base damage from 2000 to 800.

    Illusionary Counter

    • Problem: This skill is a 4.75 second cooldown, 2 second duration block that summons 2 clones and applies 7 stacks of torment (5 on trigger, 1 per clone).
    • Solution: Increase the cooldown to 10 seconds (8 seconds while traited) and reduce the torment on trigger to 3.

    Confusion isn't really an issue after they nerfed the duration to 3s, there's not a lot of ways to extend that duration too much longer than 4s. Torment is a bigger issue, look at the application and damage formula for it. Ineptitude isn't a big issue.

    Duellist Discipline...seriously? It's a weak phantasm and you have to trait it to do the weakest condition in the game. Interrupting is easy when you fight idiots who just spam spam spam like most do now. Rewarding interrupts is needed as the counter is pretty easy especially with the prevalence of stability. This is a non issue.

    Sharper Images, OK if it stops the crying change it to 33% chance on crit but keep the duration. However when comparing traits against other classes they get 20% increased bleed duration and a ton of ways to apply bleed outside the trait in large amounts and durations, core mesmer doesn't apply much bleed except on crit and random on staff, the duration isn't that long either. Sooo...it's grasping at straws as usual for mesmer complaints but whatever, fine nerf it and still die to mirage because nothing's been done about the torment.

    Infinite Horizon you base this on an ideal that there is ALWAYS 3 clones at the time of getting mirage cloak however if you fight anything with good AOE damage the illusions die very fast. The trait isn't that big of an issue outside of specific instances like the axe trait and that the axe ambush is so strong on it's own. 1 dodge will usually nullify all the ambush's from the clones. Your idea is terrible and poorly thought out, anyone lording this as being balance worthy should really think if they would like their own class having a trait for show and show only that doesn't actually do anything.

    Mirage Cloak try out removing the ability to dodge while disabled.

    Elusive mind - Don't power creep it, make it remove 1 condition on mirage cloak, no exhaustion, no stunbreak. It doesn't need to reduce deception skill cool downs.

    Illusionary Ambush is in no way comparable with something like lightning reflexes or roll for initiative. For a start you have 0 control where it puts you so you can end up in a worse place. It's also not a stun break so you're still a sitting duck. Additionally both roll for initiative and lightning reflexes can be traited for lower cool downs and additional benefits, I might add that wilderness knowledge is an insanely good trait that affects 4-5 very strong skills. Illusionary ambush isn't a big deal, it's strong but I wouldn't take it unless I wasn't using 3rd slot for portal.

    Axes of Symmetry - yes the confusion is high but I think increasing the cool down to 12s to match the number 3 skills of other weapons is better, then see if it's OK.

    Confusing Images - yeah they kept buffing the power damage because mesmer has so few main hand weapons. It does too much damage now but at the same time it's a long channelled beam and clunky. Sure a 10-20% damage reduction might be in order but not the level of reduction you're asking.

    Illusionary counter is 6s CD... Though I didn't realise they'd reduced it as much as they did in PvP/WvW. Putting it back up to 8s is all that's needed.

    Edit: Forgot to say, most of your suggestions aren't good and only show you don't really play and learn the class. The biggest issues with mirage atm are:

    Has too much torment application, an argument can be made that torment and confusion don't belong on the same build.
    Same issues as other elite specs, low cool downs on a lot of things.
    Some ambush skills have too much condition application.

    Axe and sceptre ambush skills need toning down in number of conditions applied ideally switching torment to another condition, the axe trait could also do with just being a CDR and no extra axe. Some cool downs need to go up just like all elite specs like axes of symmetry, maybe the deceptions but then the deception skills are actually really bad so would need improvement to compete with SoM and blink. Maybe do a slight reduction to chaos vortex durations, the problem is it's very well telegraphed and slow.

    Regarding Infinite Horizon, I showed with testing and match on the previous page how his claims that it increases ambush damage by FOUR TIMES is wrong. And that aside from the Staff Ambush, which is extremely difficult to land with your own character let alone clones, Infinite Horizon doesn't even get close to that even with three clones and as much investment in damage as possible.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion.

  • tinyreborn.1938tinyreborn.1938 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 3, 2018

    @apharma.3741 said:
    Sharper Images, OK if it stops the crying change it to 33% chance on crit but keep the duration. However when comparing traits against other classes they get 20% increased bleed duration and a ton of ways to apply bleed outside the trait in large amounts and durations, core mesmer doesn't apply much bleed except on crit and random on staff, the duration isn't that long either. Sooo...it's grasping at straws as usual for mesmer complaints but whatever, fine nerf it and still die to mirage because nothing's been done about the torment.

    All those traits he complaint about increase duration/damage by bleeds and caused by owner attacks ,phantasms/illusions die in 1 hit and used as shatter fodder. Nothign to compare . Also chance to crit taken from mesmer himself ,fury on mesmer doenst affect clones ,with carrion its still 5% to crit. To have 50% chance for bleed you need alot of precision . Even with wizard you have ~30 % .

    Elusive mind - Don't power creep it, make it remove 1 condition on mirage cloak, no exhaustion, no stunbreak. It doesn't need to reduce deception skill cool downs.

    Too weak , wouldnt be taken ever over IH .

    Confusing Images - yeah they kept buffing the power damage because mesmer has so few main hand weapons. It does too much damage now but at the same time it's a long channelled beam and clunky. Sure a 10-20% damage reduction might be in order but not the level of reduction you're asking.

    Its rly strong skill but lets be real , 900 range and pretty slow casting laser... I dont care for future of this skill because scepter never been good weapon even after its buff.

    Illusionary counter is 6s CD... Though I didn't realise they'd reduced it as much as they did in PvP/WvW. Putting it back up to 8s is all that's needed.

    BTW Once axe would be nerfed . Mirage would struggle to kill anyone with their cleanse spamming anyway
    Also I like how he trying to 'nerf' ranger while every suggestion is a buff xDDDDDD
    Perma moa stance with 100% share to allies . A better offensive version of rampage as one with a breakstun/stab/ low cd . When ppl wanted Timewarp to be 50% duration and 50% cut cd everyone been like ITS OP, NO NEED TO BUFF OPSMER!
    Want to move 2 minor traits that alrdy good into 1 insane trait that will reduce recharge on pet swap,increase pet damage by 10%, movespeed and give ferocity bonus and make new trait ... like kitten? Its a nerf????????
    He didnt even listed how dumb plasma and all this boons as 10s with 0% boon duration anywhere.
    Buff my class to hell and nerf others.
    Most not biased balance suggestions ! /sarcasm
    At this point i'm glad they never listen to players when it comes to balance , even random buffs and nerfs are better than this

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @tinyreborn.1938 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:
    Sharper Images, OK if it stops the crying change it to 33% chance on crit but keep the duration. However when comparing traits against other classes they get 20% increased bleed duration and a ton of ways to apply bleed outside the trait in large amounts and durations, core mesmer doesn't apply much bleed except on crit and random on staff, the duration isn't that long either. Sooo...it's grasping at straws as usual for mesmer complaints but whatever, fine nerf it and still die to mirage because nothing's been done about the torment.

    All those traits he complaint about increase duration/damage by bleeds and caused by owner attacks ,phantasms/illusions die in 1 hit and used as shatter fodder. Nothign to compare . Also chance to crit taken from mesmer himself ,fury on mesmer doenst affect clones ,with carrion its still 5% to crit. To have 50% chance for bleed you need alot of precision . Even with wizard you have ~30 % .

    Elusive mind - Don't power creep it, make it remove 1 condition on mirage cloak, no exhaustion, no stunbreak. It doesn't need to reduce deception skill cool downs.

    Too weak , wouldnt be taken ever over IH .

    Confusing Images - yeah they kept buffing the power damage because mesmer has so few main hand weapons. It does too much damage now but at the same time it's a long channelled beam and clunky. Sure a 10-20% damage reduction might be in order but not the level of reduction you're asking.

    Its rly strong skill but lets be real , 900 range and pretty slow casting laser... I dont care for future of this skill because scepter never been good weapon even after its buff.

    Illusionary counter is 6s CD... Though I didn't realise they'd reduced it as much as they did in PvP/WvW. Putting it back up to 8s is all that's needed.

    BTW Once axe would be nerfed . Mirage would struggle to kill anyone with their cleanse spamming anyway
    Also I like how he trying to 'nerf' ranger while every suggestion is a buff xDDDDDD
    Perma moa stance with 100% share to allies . A better offensive version of rampage as one with a breakstun/stab/ low cd . When ppl wanted Timewarp to be 50% duration and 50% cut cd everyone been like ITS OP, NO NEED TO BUFF OPSMER!
    Want to move 2 minor traits that alrdy good into 1 insane trait that will reduce recharge on pet swap,increase pet damage by 10%, movespeed and give ferocity bonus and make new trait ... like kitten? Its a nerf????????
    He didnt even listed how dumb plasma and all this boons as 10s with 0% boon duration anywhere.
    Buff my class to hell and nerf others.
    Most not biased balance suggestions ! /sarcasm
    At this point i'm glad they never listen to players when it comes to balance , even random buffs and nerfs are better than this

    Yeah I wrote a....scathing review of his changes to ranger earlier.

    I know sceptre is clunky and everything I do play it but there's no reason to keep confusing images as doing the ludicrous damage it does in power nor having cool downs so low. Bear in mind I advocate increasing cool downs fo a lot of skills across all classes to be more in line with how core was pre HoT. The power creep has not made the game more fun.

    I would 100% use elusive mind for the cleanse on power mes as I stated, look at my specific wording, whenevery you gain mirage cloak you cleanse a condition. Mirrors and iAmbush would each cleanse a condition each.

    I stand with Mo.

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @tinyreborn.1938 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:
    Sharper Images, OK if it stops the crying change it to 33% chance on crit but keep the duration. However when comparing traits against other classes they get 20% increased bleed duration and a ton of ways to apply bleed outside the trait in large amounts and durations, core mesmer doesn't apply much bleed except on crit and random on staff, the duration isn't that long either. Sooo...it's grasping at straws as usual for mesmer complaints but whatever, fine nerf it and still die to mirage because nothing's been done about the torment.

    All those traits he complaint about increase duration/damage by bleeds and caused by owner attacks ,phantasms/illusions die in 1 hit and used as shatter fodder. Nothign to compare . Also chance to crit taken from mesmer himself ,fury on mesmer doenst affect clones ,with carrion its still 5% to crit. To have 50% chance for bleed you need alot of precision . Even with wizard you have ~30 % .

    Elusive mind - Don't power creep it, make it remove 1 condition on mirage cloak, no exhaustion, no stunbreak. It doesn't need to reduce deception skill cool downs.

    Too weak , wouldnt be taken ever over IH .

    Confusing Images - yeah they kept buffing the power damage because mesmer has so few main hand weapons. It does too much damage now but at the same time it's a long channelled beam and clunky. Sure a 10-20% damage reduction might be in order but not the level of reduction you're asking.

    Its rly strong skill but lets be real , 900 range and pretty slow casting laser... I dont care for future of this skill because scepter never been good weapon even after its buff.

    Illusionary counter is 6s CD... Though I didn't realise they'd reduced it as much as they did in PvP/WvW. Putting it back up to 8s is all that's needed.

    BTW Once axe would be nerfed . Mirage would struggle to kill anyone with their cleanse spamming anyway
    Also I like how he trying to 'nerf' ranger while every suggestion is a buff xDDDDDD
    Perma moa stance with 100% share to allies . A better offensive version of rampage as one with a breakstun/stab/ low cd . When ppl wanted Timewarp to be 50% duration and 50% cut cd everyone been like ITS OP, NO NEED TO BUFF OPSMER!
    Want to move 2 minor traits that alrdy good into 1 insane trait that will reduce recharge on pet swap,increase pet damage by 10%, movespeed and give ferocity bonus and make new trait ... like kitten? Its a nerf????????
    He didnt even listed how dumb plasma and all this boons as 10s with 0% boon duration anywhere.
    Buff my class to hell and nerf others.
    Most not biased balance suggestions ! /sarcasm
    At this point i'm glad they never listen to players when it comes to balance , even random buffs and nerfs are better than this

    Yeah I wrote a....scathing review of his changes to ranger earlier.

    I know sceptre is clunky and everything I do play it but there's no reason to keep confusing images as doing the ludicrous damage it does in power nor having cool downs so low. Bear in mind I advocate increasing cool downs fo a lot of skills across all classes to be more in line with how core was pre HoT. The power creep has not made the game more fun.

    I would 100% use elusive mind for the cleanse on power mes as I stated, look at my specific wording, whenevery you gain mirage cloak you cleanse a condition. Mirrors and iAmbush would each cleanse a condition each.

    It got buffed because no one was using scepter. Barely anyone is using scepter now either.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion.

  • tinyreborn.1938tinyreborn.1938 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 4, 2018

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @tinyreborn.1938 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:
    Sharper Images, OK if it stops the crying change it to 33% chance on crit but keep the duration. However when comparing traits against other classes they get 20% increased bleed duration and a ton of ways to apply bleed outside the trait in large amounts and durations, core mesmer doesn't apply much bleed except on crit and random on staff, the duration isn't that long either. Sooo...it's grasping at straws as usual for mesmer complaints but whatever, fine nerf it and still die to mirage because nothing's been done about the torment.

    All those traits he complaint about increase duration/damage by bleeds and caused by owner attacks ,phantasms/illusions die in 1 hit and used as shatter fodder. Nothign to compare . Also chance to crit taken from mesmer himself ,fury on mesmer doenst affect clones ,with carrion its still 5% to crit. To have 50% chance for bleed you need alot of precision . Even with wizard you have ~30 % .

    Elusive mind - Don't power creep it, make it remove 1 condition on mirage cloak, no exhaustion, no stunbreak. It doesn't need to reduce deception skill cool downs.

    Too weak , wouldnt be taken ever over IH .

    Confusing Images - yeah they kept buffing the power damage because mesmer has so few main hand weapons. It does too much damage now but at the same time it's a long channelled beam and clunky. Sure a 10-20% damage reduction might be in order but not the level of reduction you're asking.

    Its rly strong skill but lets be real , 900 range and pretty slow casting laser... I dont care for future of this skill because scepter never been good weapon even after its buff.

    Illusionary counter is 6s CD... Though I didn't realise they'd reduced it as much as they did in PvP/WvW. Putting it back up to 8s is all that's needed.

    BTW Once axe would be nerfed . Mirage would struggle to kill anyone with their cleanse spamming anyway
    Also I like how he trying to 'nerf' ranger while every suggestion is a buff xDDDDDD
    Perma moa stance with 100% share to allies . A better offensive version of rampage as one with a breakstun/stab/ low cd . When ppl wanted Timewarp to be 50% duration and 50% cut cd everyone been like ITS OP, NO NEED TO BUFF OPSMER!
    Want to move 2 minor traits that alrdy good into 1 insane trait that will reduce recharge on pet swap,increase pet damage by 10%, movespeed and give ferocity bonus and make new trait ... like kitten? Its a nerf????????
    He didnt even listed how dumb plasma and all this boons as 10s with 0% boon duration anywhere.
    Buff my class to hell and nerf others.
    Most not biased balance suggestions ! /sarcasm
    At this point i'm glad they never listen to players when it comes to balance , even random buffs and nerfs are better than this

    Yeah I wrote a....scathing review of his changes to ranger earlier.

    I know sceptre is clunky and everything I do play it but there's no reason to keep confusing images as doing the ludicrous damage it does in power nor having cool downs so low. Bear in mind I advocate increasing cool downs fo a lot of skills across all classes to be more in line with how core was pre HoT. The power creep has not made the game more fun.

    I would 100% use elusive mind for the cleanse on power mes as I stated, look at my specific wording, whenevery you gain mirage cloak you cleanse a condition. Mirrors and iAmbush would each cleanse a condition each.

    To bring every POF spec in line with other they need to make HUGE nerfs on everything . Just an example is holosmith . Its reaper v3.0 that dont need lf/can use heal/utilities/elite and sustain himself and reduce heat with dodge spam ,hello permavigor/quickness etc.
    About ranger by the way , just make any boon share trait give ranger only 1 stack of might, not all . in other words remove access to easy 25 might on top of other damage/survivability nerfs.
    Pick your winner: lazynet are
    A) Dont know how to balance
    B)Dont want to balanace
    C) Too busy with gemshop

  • Ryan.9387Ryan.9387 Member ✭✭✭

    Fortifying bond to beastmastery would be a soulbeasts dream. We can take traited heal as one + fortifying bond for another boon copy.

    20s->16s on the proc of revenant runes. Extra 3s of resistance per 16s.

    Then ranger can merge with 25might/quickness and get all the bm passive stats for their burst. Also gives us taunt on demand or another quickness source. Super op.

  • Silinsar.6298Silinsar.6298 Member ✭✭✭

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    Engineer

    Kinetic Battery

    • Problem: Gives Holosmith 7 seconds of quickness every 7 seconds (100% uptime).
    • Solution: Reduce Quickness and Superspeed duration to 3 seconds and add an internal cooldown of 12 seconds (25% uptime).

    No. First you seem to take 40% boon duration for granted, which isn't the case for every setup and takes additional investment somewhere else. Then, even if you run Both rifle turret and photon wall in combination with healing turret and another 20-30sec TB you basically have to spam everything on CD and always enter and leave photon forge as soon as possible. With such a setup it's possible, but not really practical. Better to get less quickness and use your skills better.
    The problem with this trait on holo is actually that both PF (enter and leave) count as TB skill. Which makes holo amazingly apt at triggering kinetic battery compared to other specs. The solution would be to make either enter or leave pf not count as a TB skill, nerfing the frequency in which holo can proc it without making it totally underwhelming for core and scrapper.
    Also, I think it's strange to say the quickness is the problem and then suggest to not only cut that down by 3/4 (using your numbers) but also nerf the super speed into the ground.

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    Lock On

    • Problem: This trait can reveal someone for 12 seconds every 25 seconds (50% uptime). Hitting a stealthed foe triggers Invisible Analysis, but disabling a foe triggers Controlled Analysis. These are 2 entirely different skills that do the exact same thing but share separate cooldowns.
    • Solution: Remove the double proc and change them to Analyze. This means the trait will function properly and only reveals someone for 6 seconds every 25 seconds (24% uptime).

    Lock on is basically a band-aid counter for builds that have too much access to stealth, so as long stealth gets toned downed too a nerf's fine. I don't quite get the wording of the solution, the trait already pretty much does what Analyze does. Just say you want the procs to share the CD.

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    Power Wrench

    • Problem: 3 seconds of cooldown reduction on your elite skill every time you dodge is WAY too strong. With Vigor, players can dodge once every 7 seconds. If you do the math for a traited Elixir X (60 - 60 / 7 * 3), it goes on a 34 second cooldown. For Prime Light Beam (75 - 75 / 7 * 3), it goes on a 42 second cooldown.
    • Solution: Reduce the cooldown reduction on dodge to 1 second. For Elixir X (60 - 60 / 7 * 1), it goes on a 51 second cooldown. For Prime Light Beam (75 - 75 / 7 * 1), it goes on a 64 second cooldown.

    If you just spam dodge any time you can the 34 elite CD won't help you because you'll be dead before that. Tbh, I don't know why the trait even got this functionality (even builds without tool kit use it now, and it was basically meant to be a tool kit trait). So I wouldn't mind seeing it removed and replaced with something that better works with tool kit.

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    Photon Forge Autos

    • Problem: The range on these auto attacks (240) are nearly double the range of other melee attacks (130 for 1-handed, 150 for 2-handed).
    • Solution: Reduce the range on the autos to 150 to be in-line with other melee skills.

    I'd say 170/170/220 to match reaper's melee mode would fit.

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    Holo Leap

    • Problem: 2 second cooldown, 600 range, 1000 base damage leap. This is essentially a 1200 range movement skill on a 4 second cooldown that can critically hit you for 6000+ damage (3000+ per hit).
    • Solution: Increase the cooldown to 4 seconds. This makes it a bit easier to kite a Holo, lowers the overall dps, but still allows them to maintain permanent swiftness.

    The range of the leap plus the attack is 600, the leap itself is shorter. The distance gained compared to someone running is actually not that much due to the short animation locks where you don't move at the start and end of the skill. Distance gained is comparable to about 1-1,5sec super speed. Saying that it's a 1200 range movement every 4sec is vastly exaggerated. And yeah, it does some damage, but not something auto attacks wouldn't do in the mean time.
    I can see an argument for an increased CD only if the actual jump distance is increased too.

    Corona Burst

    • Problem: Requires 2 dodges to avoid giving the Holo stab when traited with Crystal Configuration: Eclipse and gives the holo permanent stability due to the 1.5 second delay between pulses. With one pulse, the uptime on stab is 88% (5.25/6). However, the double pulse causes the downtime between stab to be nearly nonexistent (less than a quarter of a second).
    • Solution: Move both stacks of stability to the initial hit and increase the cooldown to 8 seconds (65% uptime on stab).

    It doesn't require two dodges, it just requires any form of kiting, soft or hard CC on an enemy that's probably locked into leap animations during which he can't even dodge while closing in. And again you're taking up to 50% boon duration for granted. Even then it's not a permanent stability because a Holo won't be able to hit everytime and be in melee and in photon forge 24/7. I think the conditional stab application for an engi forced into melee is fitting and offers enough counter play, what should be cut down is the damage amplification due to vuln+might and maybe the barrier gain.

    Holographic Shockwave

    • Problem: The range on this skill is ridiculously far. Currently, if you stand in the center of Legacy Mid and use this skill, you will hit every single person on the point.
    • Solution: Reduce the range to 300 to match Corona Burst’s range.

    It has 600 range. The range's the same as every other skill with 600 range, why suddenly base a nerf not on numbers but on the subjective impression ("ridiculously far") of the skill's range? It hitting people on a point is a complaint about the area covered, which does not necessarily have to be nerfed by cutting the range.
    Anyway, as I said somewhere else, imo the visualization of the skill's the issue. Unlike fields you just don't know exactly where it ends which can make attempts to counter it by moving frustrating.
    As for the area covered: I'd suggest making it a 180° cone instead of a 360° skill. If you want to stick to a range nerf I'd make it an instant impact in return.

    SD Engi / Holo roaming videos: https://www.youtube.com/user/algeyr

  • Bazsi.2734Bazsi.2734 Member ✭✭✭

    Wow you sure like to shoot at sparrows with a cannon.

    Ranger changes - well maybe...
    Holosmith changes - some shaves are needed, but this is absolutely overkill.
    Mirage changes - on top of removing the cheese of dodgeing while stunned (without EM), you want to remove the condi specs ability to do condi damage.
    Warrior changes - meh... maybe?
    Thief changes - another nerf to S/D, seriously? The build is already unable to duel/contest/do even teamfights, but that's still not enough, lets take away some more damage from the decap-bot! And just for good measure, also smitersbooning rifle on DE.

    You should aim for balance, not nuking metabuilds into oblivion. Just for example, Revenant and reaper have absurd power burst&pressure. If the six classes you mentioned are toned down even half as much as you mentioned, these two cant stay untouched either, unless you want a meta where these two reign supreme.

    You do well with identifying whats too strong at the moment, but your suggested solutions are to hiroshima the nagasaki out of everything thats slightly overperforming.

  • @Bazsi.2734 said:

    You didnt read his suggestions about ranger at all ? Everything except axe3 are buffs xD
    Why no one mention perma reflect on mesmer ,ever ?

  • Cant we Just Remove mirage cloak? Its extrlemly stupid to do everything u want while evading(distortion has 40s cd which is ok), with few sec cd

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Bazsi.2734 said:
    Wow you sure like to shoot at sparrows with a cannon.

    Ranger changes - well maybe...
    1. Holosmith changes - some shaves are needed, but this is absolutely overkill.
    2. Mirage changes - on top of removing the cheese of dodgeing while stunned (without EM), you want to remove the condi specs ability to do condi damage.
    Warrior changes - meh... maybe?
    3. Thief changes - another nerf to S/D, seriously? The build is already unable to duel/contest/do even teamfights, but that's still not enough, lets take away some more damage from the decap-bot! And just for good measure, also smitersbooning rifle on DE.

    1. You should aim for balance, not nuking metabuilds into oblivion. Just for example, Revenant and reaper have absurd power burst&pressure. If the six classes you mentioned are toned down even half as much as you mentioned, these two cant stay untouched either, unless you want a meta where these two reign supreme.

      1. You do well with identifying whats too strong at the moment, but your suggested solutions are to hiroshima the nagasaki out of everything thats slightly overperforming.
    1. Holos have permanent quickness, 5/7 uptime on super speed, permanent stability, and roughly 50%+ cooldown reduction on their elite skills. My suggestion was to tone quickness and super speed uptime down to 25% (making Kinetic Battery essentially the same as Zephyr's Speed, reduce stability uptime to 5/8, and reduce the elite CDR from Power Wrench down to 20%.

    2. My changes to Mesmer's bleeding-related traits make them function exactly the same as EVERY other bleed-on-attack trait in the game. No other class has access to a trait with 100% chance to bleed on hit/crit. My changes to confusion and torment will result in bursts of around 10 stacks of conditions instead of 18+ stacks.

    3. It's silly that an s/d thief's main damage skills are completely unblockable. I explained why in my OP. I also explained why Death's Judgement shouldn't be unblockable.

    4. How exactly are these changes "nuking" the meta builds? Also, I stated that I was only making suggestions for the classes I am most familiar with.

    5. Thanks, but I disagree. The changes I suggested are very reasonable in my opinion. If you want to explain why you think otherwise, I'm open to a discussion. However, don't just say I'm "nuking" things without providing any justification to back up your claims.

  • EpicTurtle.8571EpicTurtle.8571 Member ✭✭✭✭

    It's funny that you stated you're only making changes for classes you're most familiar with yet you either don't understand or grossly misrepresent the actual function, practicality, or effect of most of the Mesmer abilities you mentioned.

  • As a S/D Thief main I (obviously) don‘t like the changes you suggest to S#3. You wrote about well timed blocks, but imo they don‘t or just rarely exist. I‘d use the word spam instead of well timed but maybe that‘s just my inpression of PvP atm. I however suggest that, if you take the block away, you a) change the animation of the first S#3 skill so I doesn‘t miss all the time due to the huge flank or b) you don‘t touch the animation and up the damage.

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 10, 2018

    @EpicTurtle.8571 said:
    It's funny that you stated you're only making changes for classes you're most familiar with yet you either don't understand or grossly misrepresent the actual function, practicality, or effect of most of the Mesmer abilities you mentioned.

    Here were my 3 typos:

    1. Blinding Dissipation only triggers around the player, not each clone. The change I suggested was to make it function exactly how it does now, so nothing would have been affected.
    2. Illusionary Ambush can be used while CC'd but it is NOT a stunbreak.
    3. The interval for the cooldown reduction on Duelist's Discipline ONLY applied to enemies with Defiance bars in PvE.

    So, wouldn't call that, "grossly misrepresenting" most of the mesmer abilities.

    However, I find it funny that MESMER mains are the only ones in every balance thread that vehemently defend every aspect of their busted class. Meanwhile, they think core guardians and holosmiths are the most broken builds in the game and deserve to be butchered. (Builds with enough AoE to kill clones AND an insane amount of condi clear, omegaLUL). Newflash! If these builds are nerfed like you guys want, you'll be even more OP and easy to play than you are currently.

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