List of Problem Traits/Skills + Possible Solutions (In-Depth)

There are several dominant builds in the game that completely destroy build diversity in higher tier matches. These meta builds have overwhelming damage and sustain coupled with ridiculous utility and/or mobility.

In this thread, I will list some of the most problematic skills for the classes I am most familiar with (and the reasons why I believe they are issues) and some suggestions to fix them in hopes that it will help put these builds back in line and give the PvP population a better understanding of WHY these builds are overpowered.

Hopefully, this thread will lead to a healthy balance discussion and catch the attention of a certain @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 or other Anet dev to pass on to the rest of the balance team.

Ranger

Winter’s Bite

• Problem: 10 second duration weakness on a 10 second cooldown, Enfeebling Strike doesn't get removed if the attack misses.
• Solution: Reduce weakness duration to 4 seconds, remove the Enfeebling Strike if the attack misses.

Fortifying Bond

• Problem: It’s in the same trait line as Windborne Notes. This causes too much synergy between boonshare, warhorn, and One Wolf Pack.
• Solution: Merge Loud Whistle and Pet’s Prowess in Beastmastery and move Fortifying Bond from Nature Magic to Beastmastery into the now-empty minor trait slot. Make a new minor trait for the empty slot in Nature Magic. Since there is massive synergy between Hunter's Call, One Wolf Pack, Plasma, and Fortifying Bond , this change will cause Warhorn + OWP rangers to lose access to boonshare between them and their pet. This results in significantly shorter boon uptimes and less damage as now, rangers will be forced to choose between boonshare (no longer in Nature Magic) or high damage (CotW + OWP) rather than having both.

One Wolf Pack

• Problem: Lasts 12 seconds when traited with Leader of the Pack (20% uptime). This encourages spamming auto attacks/quick hitting attacks for the entire duration (in other words, mashing your 1 key for 12 seconds).
• Solution: Reduce the duration to 5 seconds and the cooldown to 40 seconds (12% uptime). Give it a stunbreak + 2 stacks of stability for 5 seconds on use.

Moa Stance

• Problem: Lasts 15 seconds when traited with Leader of the Pack (60% uptime).
• Solution: Increase the cooldown to 30 seconds (33% uptime).

Leader of the Pack

• Problem: For a support trait, it actually benefits the user a lot more than it benefits allies.
• Solution: Reduce Personal Duration to 100%, increase Allied Duration to 100%, add 20% cooldown reduction to Stances.

Warrior

Magebane Tether

• Problem: Lasts WAY too long for the cooldown (66% uptime). You are forced to avoid every single burst skill the warrior uses otherwise you are unable to escape from melee range, revealed for 8 seconds, and giving the warrior additional health + endurance sustain. Also, this encourages the warrior to leave the tether on for the entire duration rather than utilizing the pull.
• Solution: Reduce the duration to 6 seconds (in-line with other reveal skills) and increase the cooldown to 15 seconds (40% uptime).

[Breaching Strike](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Breaching_Strike) and [Aura Slicer](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Aura_Slicer) Animations

• Problem: These attacks look nearly identical. Breaching Strike is an overhead-slice while Aura Slicer is a side-slice. However, BS is an extremely important skill to avoid and AS isn’t.
• Solution: Provide more clarity between the two animations. Give BS a flash of light maybe to let people know that THIS is the burst skill.

Engineer

Kinetic Battery

• Problem: Gives Holosmith 7 seconds of quickness every 7 seconds (100% uptime).
• Solution: Reduce Quickness and Superspeed duration to 3 seconds and add an internal cooldown of 12 seconds (25% uptime).

Lock On

• Problem: This trait can reveal someone for 12 seconds every 25 seconds (50% uptime). Hitting a stealthed foe triggers Invisible Analysis, but disabling a foe triggers Controlled Analysis. These are 2 entirely different skills that do the exact same thing but share separate cooldowns.
• Solution: Remove the double proc and change them to Analyze. This means the trait will function properly and only reveals someone for 6 seconds every 25 seconds (24% uptime).

Power Wrench

• Problem: 3 seconds of cooldown reduction on your elite skill every time you dodge is WAY too strong. With Vigor, players can dodge once every 7 seconds. If you do the math for a traited Elixir X (60 - 60 / 7 3), it goes on a 34 second cooldown. For Prime Light Beam (75 - 75 / 7 3), it goes on a 42 second cooldown.
• Solution: Reduce the cooldown reduction on dodge to 1 second. For Elixir X (60 - 60 / 7 1), it goes on a 51 second cooldown. For Prime Light Beam (75 - 75 / 7 1), it goes on a 64 second cooldown.

Photon Forge Autos

• Problem: The range on these auto attacks (240) are nearly double the range of other melee attacks (130 for 1-handed, 150 for 2-handed).
• Solution: Reduce the range on the autos to 150 to be in-line with other melee skills.

Holo Leap

• Problem: 2 second cooldown, 600 range, 1000 base damage leap. This is essentially a 900 range movement skill on a 4 second cooldown that can critically hit you for 6000+ damage (3000+ per hit).
• Solution: Increase the cooldown to 4 seconds. This makes it a bit easier to kite a Holo, lowers the overall dps, but still allows them to maintain permanent swiftness.

Corona Burst

• Problem: Requires 2 dodges to avoid giving the Holo stab when traited with Crystal Configuration: Eclipse and gives the holo permanent stability due to the 1.5 second delay between pulses. With one pulse, the uptime on stab is 88% (5.25/6). However, the double pulse causes the downtime between stab to be nearly nonexistent (less than a quarter of a second).
• Solution: Move both stacks of stability to the initial hit and increase the cooldown to 8 seconds (65% uptime on stab).

Holographic Shockwave

• Problem: The range on this skill is ridiculously far. Currently, if you stand in the center of Legacy Mid and use this skill, you will hit every single person on the point.
• Solution: Reduce the range to 300 to match Corona Burst’s range.

Mesmer

Ineptitude

• Problem: Combined with Blinding Dissipation, the confusion and blind application Mirage has access to is extremely oppressive.
• Solution: Reduce the confusion per blind to 1 stack.

Duelist’s Discipline

• Problem: Combined with Sharper Images, this trait means that Phantasmal Duelist alone can apply anywhere from 8-16 stacks of long-duration bleeding. Also, coupled with Mirage’s exceptionally high access to CC’s, this means that pistol skills can recharge nearly instantly.
• Solution: Currently, this trait bleeds on EVERY hit from pistol attacks from you and your illusions. Instead, change this to 33% chance to bleed on CRITICAL hits like most other bleeding-related traits. Also, remove the 25% cooldown reduction on interrupt and make it a flat 20% cooldown reduction on pistol skills.

Sharper Images

• Problem: Again, this trait is 100% chance on critical hits to apply a 5-8 second bleed (Carrion vs. Deadshot amulet). This results in insane amounts of bleeding stacks with little effort on the mesmer’s part.
• Solution: Similar to Sharpened Edges, Sharpshooter, Barbed Precision, and Bloodlust (basically every single bleed-on-attack related trait), make it 33% on critical hits and reduce the bleeding duration to 3 seconds because the effect can trigger from 3 different sources.

Infinite Horizon

• Problem: These trait multiplies the effectiveness of a Mirage’s ambush skills by FOUR times. Instead of using lesser versions of ambush skills, every illusion uses the exact same attack the player uses. This results in: 4 dazes from Mirage Thrust, 25 stacks of torment and bleeding from Imaginary Axes, 10-15 stacks of confusion, torment and bleeding from Ether Barrage, and 4 stacks of burning and 10-16 stacks of torment and bleeding from Chaos Vortex. Keep in mind, these ambush attacks can be SPAMMED and all of these conditions I listed are applied PER USE.
• Solution: The ambush attacks from illusions still trigger but ONLY the animation and minor power damage. They should NOT apply any conditions or other effects. This trait should be used to confuse enemies not obliterate them with multiple, high condition stacks.

Mirage Cloak

• Problem: Dodging while disabled should not exist.
• Solution: Remove the ability to dodge while disabled.

Elusive Mind

• Problem: Stunbreak on dodge should not exist.
• Solution: Remove the stunbreak and exhaustion. Add a 20% cooldown reduction to Deception skills.

Illusionary Ambush

• Problem: This skill is a target break, free Mirage Cloak, and ambush attack (x4 with 3 illusions) on a 20 second cooldown that can be used while disabled.
• Solution: Increase the cooldown to 30 seconds similar to Lightning Reflexes and Roll for Initiative.

Axes of Symmetry

• Problem: This skill applies 9 stacks of confusion for 3-5 seconds (Carrion vs. Deadshot amulet), evades, teleports, leaps, and target breaks every 8 seconds while traited.
• Solution: Increase the cooldown to 15 seconds (12 seconds while traited) and reduce the 6 stacks of player confusion to 3.

Confusing Images

• Problem: This skill has extraordinarily high base power damage (higher than Rapid Fire or Maul and can hit for 4000 damage alone on Deadshot amulet without any investment into power or critical damage.
• Solution: Lower the base damage from 2000 to 800.

Illusionary Counter

• Problem: This skill is a 4.75 second cooldown, 2 second duration block that summons 2 clones and applies 7 stacks of torment (5 on trigger, 1 per clone).
• Solution: Increase the cooldown to 10 seconds (8 seconds while traited) and reduce the torment on trigger to 3.

Thief

[Flanking Strike](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Flanking_Strike) -> [Larcenous Strike](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Larcenous_Strike)

• Problem: Both attacks are unblockable.
• Solution: Remove the Unblockable effect from Flanking Strike. Players should be rewarded for timing a defensive cooldown/block to stop Flanking Strike from hitting. If they don't, then the thief will be rewarded with an unblockable, boon-stripping, high-damage attack.

Death’s Judgement

• Problem: For a skill that hits incredibly hard, it should not be unblockable.
• Solution: Remove the Unblockable effect.

Silent Scope

• Problem: This trait gives Deadeyes' extremely easy and frequent access to stealth with no way to stop them. Black Powder + Bound also has the same issue. They give thieves high access to near-uninterruptible stealth.
• Solution: Add a 10 second internal cooldown and turn this skill into a buff on the thief’s bar when it’s active. This gives an indicator to both the thief AND the enemy player when it’s ready to be used.

Dagger Storm

• Problem: A 4.5 second evade (9 seconds if recharged with Improvisation) shouldn’t count towards Capture-Point Contribution.
• Solution: Prevent Capture-Point Contribution.

these are all right on except for the one wolf pack solution (stunbreak and stab). soulbeast absolutely does not need another stunbreak or stab.

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:these are all right on except for the one wolf pack solution (stunbreak and stab). soulbeast absolutely does not need another stunbreak or stab.

Thanks for the feedback!

With the nerf I proposed to OWP (5 second duration, 40 second cooldown), a single cc would make this skill nearly useless. The stab + stunbreak is intended to allow the ranger and their allies to have a higher chance of actually utilizing the damage buff.

Keep in mind, I also proposed a way to cut down on the boonshare on the meta build. This means that boonbeasts will have to trade between damage, sustain, and boonshare rather than having access to all 3 in the same build.

@"shadowpass.4236" said:

Mesmer

Ineptitude

• Problem: Combined with Blinding Dissipation, the confusion and blind application Mirage has access to is extremely oppressive. When a mesmer shatters with 3 clones active, this trait ALONE instantly applies 8 stacks of confusion.
• Solution: Reduce the confusion per blind to 1 stack.

Blinding Dissipation

• Problem: The blind application on this trait is absolutely insane. Every time a mesmer shatters, every single one of their clones will apply blind for 3-5 seconds (Carrion vs. Deadshot amulet). Asides from the extraordinary synergy with Ineptitude, the long duration, very frequent blinds makes it very hard to get any damage off onto the mesmer in between the low-cooldown target breaks and blinks. Players are forced to cleanse the blind (which will trigger confusion from Ineptitude) before being able to attack. Of course, if the clones are staggered before being shattered, this means getting blinded multiple times in a row even after using cleansing skills/attacks to get rid of the first blind is a very common occurrence.
• Solution: Make the blind proc ONLY around the player, not the clones. Do not add an ICD. This means that this trait is still a very effective tool to avoid attacks in melee range instead of being an severely overpowered defensive AND offensive tool.

Duelist’s Discipline

• Problem: Combined with Sharper Images, this trait means that Phantasmal Duelist alone can apply anywhere from 8-16 stacks of long-duration bleeding. Also, coupled with Mirage’s exceptionally high access to CC’s, this means that pistol skills are on very low cooldowns. If the cooldown reduction triggers every 3 seconds, both Phantasmal Duelist and Magic Bullet go on 9 second cooldowns.
• Solution: Currently, this trait bleeds on EVERY hit from pistol attacks from you and your illusions. Instead, change this to 33% chance to bleed on CRITICAL hits like most other bleeding-related traits. Also, remove the 25% cooldown reduction on interrupt and make it a flat 20% cooldown reduction on pistol skills.

Sharper Images

• Problem: Again, this trait is 100% chance on critical hits to apply a 5-8 second bleed (Carrion vs. Deadshot amulet). This results in insane amounts of bleeding stacks with little effort on the mesmer’s part.
• Solution: Similar to Sharpened Edges, Sharpshooter, Barbed Precision, and Bloodlust (basically every single bleed-on-attack related trait), make it 33% on critical hits and reduce the bleeding duration to 3 seconds because the effect can trigger from 3 different sources.

Infinite Horizon

• Problem: These trait multiplies the effectiveness of a Mirage’s ambush skills by FOUR times. Instead of using lesser versions of ambush skills, every illusion uses the exact same attack the player uses. This results in: 4 dazes from Mirage Thrust, 25 stacks of torment and bleeding from Imaginary Axes, 10-15 stacks of confusion, torment and bleeding from Ether Barrage, and 4 stacks of burning and 10-16 stacks of torment and bleeding from Chaos Vortex. Keep in mind, these ambush attacks can be SPAMMED and all of these conditions I listed are applied PER USE.
• Solution: The ambush attacks from illusions still trigger but ONLY the animation and minor power damage. They should NOT apply any conditions or other effects. This trait should be used to confuse enemies not obliterate them with multiple, high condition stacks.

Mirage Cloak

• Problem: Dodging while disabled should not exist.
• Solution: Remove the ability to dodge while disabled.

Elusive Mind

• Problem: Stunbreak on dodge should not exist.
• Solution: Remove the stunbreak and exhaustion. Add a 20% cooldown reduction to Deception skills.

Illusionary Ambush

• Problem: This skill is a stunbreak, target break, free Mirage Cloak, and ambush attack (x4 with Infinite Horizon) on a 20 second cooldown.
• Solution: Increase the cooldown to 30 seconds similar to Lightning Reflexes and Roll for Initiative.

Axes of Symmetry

• Problem: This skill applies 9 stacks of confusion for 3-5 seconds (Carrion vs. Deadshot amulet), evades, teleports, leaps, and target breaks every 8 seconds while traited.
• Solution: Increase the cooldown to 15 seconds (12 seconds while traited) and reduce the 6 stacks of player confusion to 3.

Ineptitude - I don't really see a problem with this, you need to get 3 clones which can be easily cleaved to negate the damage.

Blinding Dissipation - "Every time a mesmer shatters, every single one of their clones will apply blind for 3-5 seconds " No, it doesn't. Read the tooltip, or better yet play it yourself if you don't believe me instead of being misinformed about what it does before calling for nerfs to the skill.

Duelist’s Discipline - You're complaining about bleeding? It's like the weakest hitting condition in the game. Not to mention that your argument is based on more than just duelist discipline but sharper images as well? What kind of logic is that? These 40 skills together have good synergy so therefore nerf Duelists Discipline, good one. You have to run high crit to even compliment sharper images so you're giving up survivability to run high chance to crit with bleed? Good luck with that build.

Sharper Images - Again, it's bleeding, based on crit no less, they might as well be tickling you. And if you allow clones to kill you with the passive bleeding proc on crit, then you deserve to die. Obviously the duelist can stack up bleeds along with the trait with the right cc, but the duelist has a obvious tell, 1/2 cast and is easily avoidable.

Infinite Horizon - Of course you don't mention that you need max clones to get the max amount of damage from the trait, on top of the fact that the tell is HUGE. Moving on.

Elusive Mind : Personally I think elusive mind should break stun, but should be on a cd, 20+ or more. Remove the exhaustion.

Mirage Cloak - I'd be okay with them removing dodge while stunned if they were to remove the exhaustion on EM and put it on a pretty hefty cooldown instead. Otherwise we'd agree to disagree.

illusionary Ambush: Strike number 2, this is the second time you've been wrong on this list about the simple functionality of what the skills or traits do. Please refer me to the part where illusionary Ambush breaks stun. I'll wait.

Axes of Symmetry - I agree that this skill does too much with one skill. Personally they need to split it up all of the functionality between lingering thoughts and axes of symmetry.

But overall this feels like you're just desperately grasping for straws. You didn't even know the functionality of 2 out of the 9 things you listed, on top of the fact that you can't even single out the imperfections with one skill without including another in your reasoning of why it's strong. Good effort, bad execution.

@"Trigr.6481" said:Ineptitude - I don't really see a problem with this, you need to get 3 clones which can be easily cleaved to negate the damage.

Blinding Dissipation - "Every time a mesmer shatters, every single one of their clones will apply blind for 3-5 seconds " No, it doesn't. Read the tooltip, or better yet play it yourself if you don't believe me instead of being misinformed about what it does before calling for nerfs to the skill.

Duelist’s Discipline - You're complaining about bleeding? It's like the weakest hitting condition in the game. Not to mention that your argument is based on more than just duelist discipline but sharper images as well? What kind of logic is that? These 40 skills together have good synergy so therefore nerf Duelists Discipline, good one. You have to run high crit to even compliment sharper images so you're giving up survivability to run high chance to crit with bleed? Good luck with that build.

Sharper Images - Again, it's bleeding, based on crit no less, they might as well be tickling you. And if you allow clones to kill you with the passive bleeding proc on crit, then you deserve to die. Obviously the duelist can stack up bleeds along with the trait with the right cc, but the duelist has a obvious tell, 1/2 cast and is easily avoidable.

Infinite Horizon - Of course you don't mention that you need max clones to get the max amount of damage from the trait, on top of the fact that the tell is HUGE. Moving on.

Elusive Mind : Personally I think elusive mind should break stun, but should be on a cd, 20+ or more. Remove the exhaustion.

Mirage Cloak - I'd be okay with them removing dodge while stunned if they were to remove the exhaustion on EM and put it on a pretty hefty cooldown instead. Otherwise we'd agree to disagree.

illusionary Ambush: Strike number 2, this is the second time you've been wrong on this list about the simple functionality of what the skills or traits do. Please refer me to the part where illusionary Ambush breaks stun. I'll wait.

Axes of Symmetry - I agree that this skill does too much with one skill. Personally they need to split it up all of the functionality between lingering thoughts and axes of symmetry.

But overall this feels like you're just desperately grasping for straws. You didn't even know the functionality of 2 out of the 9 things you listed, on top of the fact that you can't even single out the imperfections with one skill without including another in your reasoning of why it's strong. Good effort, bad execution.

Ah, you're right about Blinding Dissipation. I tested all of these out in game and referenced + linked the wiki to double check when I was typing them but I think I was standing too close to the Golem so the blind still applied. I was wrong about the way this trait works, however, the "nerf" I proposed would've made it function exactly how it does now. So, it wouldn't have changed anything anyways.

As for Illusionary Ambush, the skill isn't a stunbreak but it can still be used while cc'd.

In regards to Sharper Images and Duelist's Discipline, I linked every other bleed-on-attack trait in the game. ALL of them were 33% chance on CRITICAL hits. Mesmer is the only exception with 100% chance on hit/crit. Thus, all of those builds also have to run higher crit chance in exchange for survivability. Again, mesmer is the odd one out.

I was actually wrong about the interval on Duelist's Discipline. The 3 second interval isn't for the CDR on interrupt, but rather the CDR on enemies with Defiance bars in PvE.

I will update the posts. As for listing multiple skills together, the synergy between traits/skills is what causes meta builds to be as strong as they are.

Of course, like most mesmer players, you don't see anything wrong with the class. However, I attempted to address all of the problems in ALL of the current meta builds that I believe are causing issues (that means ranger too).

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@"Trigr.6481" said:Ineptitude - I don't really see a problem with this, you need to get 3 clones which can be easily cleaved to negate the damage.

Blinding Dissipation - "Every time a mesmer shatters, every single one of their clones will apply blind for 3-5 seconds " No, it doesn't. Read the tooltip, or better yet play it yourself if you don't believe me instead of being misinformed about what it does before calling for nerfs to the skill.

Duelist’s Discipline - You're complaining about bleeding? It's like the weakest hitting condition in the game. Not to mention that your argument is based on more than just duelist discipline but sharper images as well? What kind of logic is that? These 40 skills together have good synergy so therefore nerf Duelists Discipline, good one. You have to run high crit to even compliment sharper images so you're giving up survivability to run high chance to crit with bleed? Good luck with that build.

Sharper Images - Again, it's bleeding, based on crit no less, they might as well be tickling you. And if you allow clones to kill you with the passive bleeding proc on crit, then you deserve to die. Obviously the duelist can stack up bleeds along with the trait with the right cc, but the duelist has a obvious tell, 1/2 cast and is easily avoidable.

Infinite Horizon - Of course you don't mention that you need max clones to get the max amount of damage from the trait, on top of the fact that the tell is HUGE. Moving on.

Elusive Mind : Personally I think elusive mind should break stun, but should be on a cd, 20+ or more. Remove the exhaustion.

Mirage Cloak - I'd be okay with them removing dodge while stunned if they were to remove the exhaustion on EM and put it on a pretty hefty cooldown instead. Otherwise we'd agree to disagree.

illusionary Ambush: Strike number 2, this is the second time you've been wrong on this list about the simple functionality of what the skills or traits do. Please refer me to the part where illusionary Ambush breaks stun. I'll wait.

Axes of Symmetry - I agree that this skill does too much with one skill. Personally they need to split it up all of the functionality between lingering thoughts and axes of symmetry.

But overall this feels like you're just desperately grasping for straws. You didn't even know the functionality of 2 out of the 9 things you listed, on top of the fact that you can't even single out the imperfections with one skill without including another in your reasoning of why it's strong. Good effort, bad execution.

Also I wasn't aware that being able to do something while you're stunned means it's a stun break, silly me. And of course I think there's things wrong with the class, but the majority of the things you listed can be easily refuted. And good job I guess you listed your own class, am I supposed to take it that you're implying that you're unbiased by doing so? I've made plenty of videos and forum post suggesting nerfs to mesmer. Just because I don't agree with the majority of your poorly thought out argument doesn't mean I'm biased. If I were to make a thread about suggesting nerfs or buffs to ranger, I'd atleast read the fucking skills at the very least.

Look at you future anet dev

@Trigr.6481 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@Trigr.6481 said:Ineptitude - I don't really see a problem with this, you need to get 3 clones which can be easily cleaved to negate the damage.

Blinding Dissipation - "Every time a mesmer shatters, every single one of their clones will apply blind for 3-5 seconds " No, it doesn't. Read the tooltip, or better yet play it yourself if you don't believe me instead of being misinformed about what it does before calling for nerfs to the skill.

Duelist’s Discipline - You're complaining about bleeding? It's like the weakest hitting condition in the game. Not to mention that your argument is based on more than just duelist discipline but sharper images as well? What kind of logic is that? These 40 skills together have good synergy so therefore nerf Duelists Discipline, good one. You have to run high crit to even compliment sharper images so you're giving up survivability to run high chance to crit with bleed? Good luck with that build.

Sharper Images - Again, it's bleeding, based on crit no less, they might as well be tickling you. And if you allow clones to kill you with the passive bleeding proc on crit, then you deserve to die. Obviously the duelist can stack up bleeds along with the trait with the right cc, but the duelist has a obvious tell, 1/2 cast and is easily avoidable.

Infinite Horizon - Of course you don't mention that you need max clones to get the max amount of damage from the trait, on top of the fact that the tell is HUGE. Moving on.

Elusive Mind : Personally I think elusive mind should break stun, but should be on a cd, 20+ or more. Remove the exhaustion.

Mirage Cloak - I'd be okay with them removing dodge while stunned if they were to remove the exhaustion on EM and put it on a pretty hefty cooldown instead. Otherwise we'd agree to disagree.

illusionary Ambush: Strike number 2, this is the second time you've been wrong on this list about the simple functionality of what the skills or traits do. Please refer me to the part where illusionary Ambush breaks stun. I'll wait.

Axes of Symmetry - I agree that this skill does too much with one skill. Personally they need to split it up all of the functionality between lingering thoughts and axes of symmetry.

But overall this feels like you're just desperately grasping for straws. You didn't even know the functionality of 2 out of the 9 things you listed, on top of the fact that you can't even single out the imperfections with one skill without including another in your reasoning of why it's strong. Good effort, bad execution.

Like I said, minor mistake on the stunbreak portion of my thread, I fixed it.

I spent a few hours typing all of this up and mesmer was the last one I got to. Forgive me if I missed a thing or two. ^^

I'm fairly unbiased. I play multiple classes, with ranger being my main. I think I have a pretty good understanding what makes the meta builds strong since I can play them all in plat 2+ and maintain my rating. Not to mention I barely log on anymore, don't play in any tournaments, and don't have any reason or personal gain for nerfing one class harder than another. I made this to try and help other people understand what's overpowered atm and give explanations as to why I believe they are.

Of course, this thread is based off of my opinions shaped from my PERSONAL experiences playing this game since release. They will undoubtedly differ from others'. I'm not saying I'm 100% correct in any or all of these suggestions. These are just what I think would help the game at this point in time.

A few hiccups I noticed.

• Roll for Initiative is a 40 sec cd.

• Illusionary Ambush doesn't even need Infinite Horizon for clones as the skill already gives them the cloak.

Otherwise these are fair suggestions, but you missed out on Weaver and its evade uptime, or Revenant and its insane burst potential. Some of the proposed Mesmer changes are a bit meager but will do with a few changes.

@Abelisk.4527 said:A few hiccups I noticed.

• Roll for Initiative is a 40 sec cd.

• Illusionary Ambush doesn't even need Infinite Horizon for clones as the skill already gives them the cloak.

Otherwise these are fair suggestions, but you missed out on Weaver and its evade uptime, or Revenant and its insane burst potential. Some of the proposed Mesmer changes are a bit meager but will do with a few changes.

Yeah I know the cooldown for Roll for Initiative was longer. I mainly linked it for comparison to show the cooldown difference between relatively similarly functioning skills.

Good point on Illusionary Ambush. I'll fix that.

Yeah I left out a few classes. While I might be able to play them fine, I don't think I know them well enough to suggest the correct buffs/nerfs (and since I barely play this game anymore, nor do I feel that they are worth spending the time learning to that degree) ^-^

@"shadowpass.4236" said:Infinite Horizon

• Problem: These trait multiplies the effectiveness of a Mirage’s ambush skills by FOUR times. Instead of using lesser versions of ambush skills, every illusion uses the exact same attack the player uses. This results in: 4 dazes from Mirage Thrust, 25 stacks of torment and bleeding from Imaginary Axes, 10-15 stacks of confusion, torment and bleeding from Ether Barrage, and 4 stacks of burning and 10-16 stacks of torment and bleeding from Chaos Vortex. Keep in mind, these ambush attacks can be SPAMMED and all of these conditions I listed are applied PER USE.
• Solution: The ambush attacks from illusions still trigger but ONLY the animation and minor power damage. They should NOT apply any conditions or other effects. This trait should be used to confuse enemies not obliterate them with multiple, high condition stacks.

I did all this stuff back in april when Chrono mains were trying to deflect from Signet of the Ether and Chronophantasma being OP back in Apirl:

The following have been tested with Berserker stats and under the assumption of three clones:

On a power build you can expect Mirage Thrust to do about 2,000 damage on a critical strike. Clones will critically strike for abou 40 with Mirage Thrust. Not 4,000. Not 400. 40.

That means the increase in Mirage Thrust's damage output with Infinite Horizon is 6%. Now you can't discount the daze on it since that's the point, but the thing is not only are the dazes overwriting each other, they all going to land at mostly the same time anyway and like I said that's not adding the dazed duration at 400% effectiveness.

Split Surge will typically do about 4,000 damage on Berserker Stats. Clone Spatial surge ranged from 400-700. This means that with three clones Spatial Surge gets an extremely high balled damage increase of 52%. Leagues better than 6% but a far cry away from 400%.

The next few skills are calculated using viper's gear with renegade ruins, three clones, Signet of Midnight and Signet of Domination as the bulk of their damage is condition based. I'm also using the axe trait to buff their damage to as obscene levels as I can for the sake of argument.

Imaginary Axes has the physical component of it's attack, which on viper's gear ranges from 350-550 plus the additional 272 damage from the traited portion of the skill. Each axe from the ambush applies three stacks of torment, with a seventh stack from the trait. Torment applied will add up to 3,647 damage. Overall this skill does about 5,000 damage per ambush.

Clones will typically do 40-60 physical damage, plus another 40-60 damage on the traited portion of the attack. However, each axe only does one stack of torment, one third of the player's ambush. Torment damage from the clone damage adds up to 1,309. High balling it, this means that a clone's ambush comes around to about 1489.

This means that three clones will add up to 4,467 damage per ambush attack, or 89% increase in damage. This is definitely better, almost double damage on this one attack. But it's still no where near quadrupling the damage.

Ether Barrage waaaay too random I refuse to actually test it fully because of it's extremely unpredictable nature of randomly applying either torment or confusion. The player will about 1,200 physical damage across 5 bolts clone damage does about 105 across all five hits. Condition duration on either condition applied is explicitly half the duration of the mesmer's. In a hypathetical world where scepter get's fixed to replace it's confusion with torment the ambush does about 2445 damage for the player. Clone damage will add up to 725 damage for the ambush, times three equals 2175. Total increase in damage from three clone ambush attacks adds up to 88%.

The only outlier is the staff ambush, Chaos Vortex. And you know what? I have no problem if they halve the condition duration on that one, too. But event hen, that ambush is extremely easy to avoid just by strafing out of the way and doesn't lock onto players like most normal skills do.

Edit: I have a knee jerk reaction to do jokey trash talky snark, and I feel like it wasn't warranted given your response below and deleted it. I apologize it was unnecessary. Either way, YOU made the thread about this and did not do the math. I did not make the thread about this AND did your math for you.

@"mortrialus.3062"

Apologies if a term I used isn't 100% correct. I assume that most people will still understand my point.

I added screenshots of the golems after using a single Ambush attack (with different weapons) to help provide visuals for people to reference.

Anyone can clearly see how high the condi application is simply by using a single Ambush attack with 3 illusions and Infinite Horizon.

But yes, picking out a single wrong term means that my entire thread is "embarassing." Thank you for pointing that out.

@shadowpass.4236 said:@"mortrialus.3062"

Apologies if a term I used isn't 100% correct. I assume that most people will still understand my point.

I added screenshots of the golems after using a single Ambush attack (with different weapons) to help provide visuals for people to reference.

Anyone can clearly see how high the condi application is simply by using a single Ambush attack with 3 illusions and Infinite Horizon.

But yes, picking out a single wrong term means that my entire thread is "embarassing." Thank you for pointing that out.

Also Infinite Horizon is only a DPS boost as experienced players do not get confused by clones longer than fractions of a second anyway. It's impossible to make a trait where clones are even remotely confusing and the damage boost was always an intended part of it.

I don't see too much of a point in complaining about clone condition application when they only classes that really struggles with getting condi bombed are necromancers, who are almost always partnered with support who fix that problem for them anyway, and Power Herald which is still a meta build despite a really unfavorable matchup against condi mirage. Literally every other build in the game can flip 4-7 conditions multiple times an encounter on top of bringing extremely threatening damage.

Regarding Holo, I find their levels of sustain, healing, and condition conversion and cleanse to be far more problematic than their damage and you didn't touch on any of it. Holos should be a high risk / high reward explosively lethal but squishy damage carry. And right now they're not squishy in the slightest and their high level of defense on top of top tier damage is a huge part of why scrapper was pushed out of the meta. Why run a highly defensive build when you can right a highly defensive and high damage build?

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:@mortrialus.3062

Apologies if a term I used isn't 100% correct. I assume that most people will still understand my point.

I added screenshots of the golems after using a single Ambush attack (with different weapons) to help provide visuals for people to reference.

Anyone can clearly see how high the condi application is simply by using a single Ambush attack with 3 illusions and Infinite Horizon.

But yes, picking out a single wrong term means that my entire thread is "embarassing." Thank you for pointing that out.

IH is still a dps boost regardless of whether or not the person you're fighting is experienced or not.

IH can be very confusing to experienced players if the Mesmer acts exactly like a clone. If there's no differences in the boon-bar, the Mesmer doesn't do anything out of the ordinary, and attacks and moves exactly like a clone, there's no way to tell which is which.

As for Holo, I suggested to lower the 100% quickness uptime, decrease ranges and increase some cooldowns very slightly. For the most part, their damage per skill will remain the same. The frequency between attacks however, will be decreased.

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:@mortrialus.3062

Apologies if a term I used isn't 100% correct. I assume that most people will still understand my point.

I added screenshots of the golems after using a single Ambush attack (with different weapons) to help provide visuals for people to reference.

Anyone can clearly see how high the condi application is simply by using a single Ambush attack with 3 illusions and Infinite Horizon.

But yes, picking out a single wrong term means that my entire thread is "embarassing." Thank you for pointing that out.

Are you a chronomancer because I feel like I'm back in 2012 :smirk:

As for Holo, I suggested to lower the 100% quickness uptime, decrease ranges and increase some cooldowns very slightly. For the most part, their damage per skill will remain the same. The frequency between attacks however, will be decreased.

It's not the damage or frequency I care about, or rather that's what Holo's should be doing. My issue are their sustain. This was my previous diagnosis of my issues with Holo:

I don't mind the damage and the CC. I feel like that's what Holosmiths SHOULD be doing in very high extremes. What really annoys me about Holos is their survivability and sustain. Elixer traitline provides tons of boons, automatic condition conversions and elixir S, almost permanent vigor, and they have healing whenever they gain a boon. Between Holo's Prismatic Converter, Heat Therapy, Thermal Release Valve, and Elixir's Transmute, Compounding Chemicals, and literally the best heal skill in the game with Heal Turret Holos have ridiculous sustain for a build that's supposed to be high risk high reward glass cannon. And they're running around with tons of boons with their extremely ridiculous levels of condition conversion. In addition with Holo's ridiculous levels of stability.

They're so well equipped defensively and offensively they've completely muscled out Scrapper as an elite spec. Why run a highly defensive spec when you can run a high damage high defense spec?

Also Leadership runes should be nerfed in PvP just in general. Like let's name all the classes that run it on a meta build or perfectly viable close to meta build: Soulbeast, Holosmith, Revenant, Dagger Spellbreaker, while Weaver isn't meta it's part of their best build as well. When over half the classes are running one rune, you know something funny is going on.

I'd rather see the easy sustain in the elixir and holo trees nerfed and then loaded onto scrapper to give them more distinct rolls.

Regarding thieves, I think Swindler's Equilibrium guaranteeing double steal, combined with Improvisation allowing steal skills to be used twice is too much synergy. In addition Improvisation shouldn't be recharging elite skills. Back to back Dagger Storms is an insane amount of evade frames to deal with and the randomness of which skills are recharged makes it either completely worthless or absolutely monstrous and we should be culling RNG like that out.. I think that synergy is a bit more of a problem than Death's Judgement and Flanking Strike. Silent Scope is nuts though and makes Deadeye a complete nightmare to fight.

@"shadowpass.4236" said:

Thief

[Flanking Strike](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Flanking_Strike) -> [Larcenous Strike](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Larcenous_Strike)

• Problem: Both attacks are unblockable.
• Solution: Remove the Unblockable effect from Larcenous Strike. This still encourages skilled gameplay. If an enemy uses a block or has Aegis, the thief can use Flanking Strike and wait for the block/boon to end before using Larcenous Strike. This change prevents this attack from being spammed repeatedly even when an enemy is using a defensive cooldown.

Death’s Judgement

• Problem: For a skill that hits incredibly hard, it should not be unblockable.
• Solution: Remove the Unblockable effect.

Silent Scope

• Problem: This trait gives Deadeyes' extremely easy and frequent access to stealth with no way to stop them. Black Powder + Bound also has the same issue. They give thieves high access to uninterruptible stealth.
• Solution: Add a 10 second internal cooldown and turn this skill into a buff on the thief’s bar when it’s active. This gives an indicator to the thief and the enemy player when it’s ready to be used.

Dagger Storm

• Problem: A 4.5 second evade shouldn’t count towards Capture-Point Contribution.
• Solution: Prevent Capture-Point Contribution.

Spamming Flanking Strike and Larcenous Strike was always a death sentence for the Thief even before the DMG nerfs (if I remember correctly that was a whooping 20%), so I don't agree with this change much, however if its to have unblockable removed from LS then one of those skills, FS or LS needs its dmg increased. Say what you will but Thiefs dmg is borderline nothing compared to all other professions (I can dish out more dmg even with godd*mn Sage/Avatar Weaver than with Thief), and since we can safely assume Anet will never ever "de-powercreep" ALL of the professions, then its pretty unfair leaving S/x Thief completely behind.

I agree with all the rest.

Should add something on the cleansing water+woven stride interaction with rune of evasion. Even though weaver is not meta right now, that is still a game breaking interaction that should not be overlooked.

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:these are all right on except for the one wolf pack solution (stunbreak and stab). soulbeast absolutely does not need another stunbreak or stab.

the ranger should rely on dolyak stance and timing. what youre doing is a damage nerf but a huge survivability buff which is very counter productive. even with some boonshare nerfed this stab addition would pretty much make that nerf null and void.

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:these are all right on except for the one wolf pack solution (stunbreak and stab). soulbeast absolutely does not need another stunbreak or stab.

Can you explain this a little further please?

From my perspective, adding a stunbreak and short duration, 2 stacks of stability to OWP just makes it a viable alternative to Strength of the Pack which gives 3 stacks of stability for 8 seconds (along with fury, might, and swiftness) on a 60 second cooldown when traited (13% uptime). 2 stacks of stability for 5 seconds every 40 seconds on OWP is a 12.5% uptime. However, instead of a damage boost from might and fury, you gain extra damage while attacking.

If rangers wanted higher boon and stab uptime, I believe that they would still choose SotP in this scenario.

To me, my suggestion looks like a damage nerf, and compensates a little bit for the lost damage by adding in a way to land that damage reliably. Maybe reducing the base stab duration on OWP to 3 or 4 seconds would be better? Ideally, I prefer it when traits/utilities/skills are able to function independently from each other. Requiring Dolyak Stance to be used in conjunction with OWP because a 5 second damage buff is too weak on its own isn't a good idea in my opinion.

@"shadowpass.4236" said:Can you explain this a little further please?

From my perspective, adding a stunbreak and short duration, 2 stacks of stability to OWP just makes it a viable alternative to Strength of the Pack which gives 3 stacks of stability for 8 seconds (along with fury, might, and swiftness) on a 60 second cooldown when traited (13% uptime). 2 stacks of stability for 5 seconds every 40 seconds on OWP is a 12.5% uptime. However, instead of a damage boost from might and fury, you gain extra damage while attacking.

If rangers wanted higher boon and stab uptime, I believe that they would still choose SotP in this scenario.

To me, my suggestion looks like a damage nerf, and compensates a little bit for the lost damage by adding in a way to land that damage reliably. Maybe reducing the base stab duration on OWP to 3 or 4 seconds would be better?

im not sure how to explain further. I would rather OWP duration go up from 5 to 8sec instead of stab and stunbreak. SOTP is fine cuz it has a long cd and doesn't break stuns.