Legendary Fractal Armour — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Legendary Fractal Armour

Now first thing a lot of people are thinking right now is, "there have already been threads like this," yes I know however things have changed since then so hear me out.

I got to thinking about this after I got curious and decided to check the wiki on Legendary Armour from PvP and WvW.
What I found out intrigued me, because the prices of the precursor armours were very similar to those of the Illustrious armour that BLING-9009 sells.
They require similar amounts of Marks and gold. So the big question is why can't the Illustrious armour be converted into a Legendary armour too?

Well first thing is that the PvP and WvW armours require a certain rank to be reached before they can be purchased.
HOWEVER we do have ranks in Fractals now too i.e. Fractal Savant etc
Second thing is that the Illustrious armour is the exact same as the first Ascended armour we could craft when it was first introduced., so it doesn't really work as a precursor armour.
However all ANET would have to do is introduce a new set with it's own unique look, and it would have slightly higher demands like instead of Fractal Relics it would require Pristine Fractal Relics to purchase. And of course this new armour would require a certain "rank" before it can be accquired like "Fractal Prodigy."
While if there were also a more lavish version just like the PvP and WvW do then it would require a higher rank i.e. Fractal Champion at very least.

And of course the Legendary versions of these armours would not gain any new looks but retain the one the precursor armour has just like the PvP and WvW do in order not to cause outrage from the Raiding community. So you can put it in a pipe and smoke it if you thought I wanted FotM to replace Raids.

So how do others feel about this? I mean if there already is Legendary PvP and WvW armour, then I don't think a similar Legendary armor from FotM would hurt much.

<134

Comments

  • phs.6089phs.6089 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2, 2018

    Then people will ask for low entry just like pvp/wvw have 2 sets of leg armor, not shiny and shiny. Fractals prodigy is a long grind tbh. They tie it to those titles people will snap.

    PvP leg 1st gen doesn't ask for a rank. Just a tiny lv20 to play spvp.

    But I guess it will bring another sink for mats,that is always healthy for economy.

    And oh boi I can see LGFs 'selling CMs, unlock achievements for fractals legendary armor'

    I dream of elves in GW2.

  • Hesacon.8735Hesacon.8735 Member ✭✭✭

    sPvP and wvw legendary armors are super time gated and require a lot of commitment to the game mode. Fractals do have similar time gating mechanics that could make this work.

    I wouldn't be opposed to having a shiny competitive T3 armor tied to titles as a status symbol, but a normal set of legendary armor without it would be a must.

  • As long no cm req is imposed (since then we would have same problem as many got with raid legendery amors.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Not adding CMs as a requirement for the Legendary would mean it's a farm/grind thing alone, of course the PVP and WVW versions are mostly about farming too, but as someone who has cleared the CMs but is years away of reaching the top title(s) this kind of thing would screw me over. And I'm sure I'm not alone, and there others in this situation that don't Raid. Do we want this to be a show of grinding or also a show of skill? A "solution" might be reducing the grind part (Mist Attunement rank) by finishing CM versions of Fractals. Or something like that.

  • Grogba.6204Grogba.6204 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 3, 2018

    An armor set in the same style as the fractal weapons would be amazing (also golden Ad Infinitum skin pls).

    Regarding the legendary armor part: I wouldn't be opposed to another legendary set, how one would design the requirements is another thing entirely. Ad Infinitum does require multiple fractals in "harder" conditions (-80% reduced healing, time limit etc.) thus adding the CMs on the list wouldn't be too strange. Something akin to the crystaline heart could work (activate and fulfill specific requirements at a boss) but those should be individual challenges and not groupwide for two reasons:

    a) Group achievements only work when the goal is desirable for the whole party (faster, better loot, vanity) even after the initial rush is over. Limiting design choices.
    b) Individual achievements severely cut down the possibility for abuse. Say one of the requirements was the whole party (rather than every player on his own) had to avoid every shockwave during the Amala fight. If I want to screw others over working on said collection I could purposely fail it just out of spite. And when MMOs have shown me one thing over the years then it is the reality of many players being insanely petty.

  • Zenith.7301Zenith.7301 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'd rather they not further reduce the incentives to raid by introducing a far more accessible competitor.

    Fractals are already way more profitable per hour than raiding by a mile and provide a valuable source of stat infusions on top. They also provide Ad Infinitum.

    Let the rest come from raids and simply tweak viable builds so that raiding isn't a total pain because it lives and dies by the chrono and druids.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 3, 2018

    Add legendary armor to fractals, make Fractal God (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fractal_God) a requirement.

    It rewards skill by speeding up the grind for people who do daily CMs but remains possible for people who only do T4s.

    It is adjusted to pve (which a majority of players frequent) without making the spvp and wvw legendary armors obsolete from a time and grind perspective.

    It encourages players to play pve challenging content (where legendary armor is actually of use, unlike open world).

    It's a win-win for all, except those who just want to credit-card warrior brute force their gear or those who want legendary armor for even less effort than the spvp and or wvw ones.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Each game mode already has legendary armor. If fractals are to have another legendary item, it should be a trinket.

  • phs.6089phs.6089 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 3, 2018

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    Each game mode already has legendary armor. If fractals are to have another legendary item, it should be a trinket.

    Next trinket is WvW legendary amulet, mark my words. :)

    sPvP and WvW are PVP mods tho. Raids and Fractals are PVE.

    So for fractal gods and goddesses (good luck catching up with this grind wvw shiny armor) shiny leg armor and not shiny for casual t4 that surely can make some efforts to clear 99 /100 CM.
    Your move Arena.NET. ;)

    I dream of elves in GW2.

  • Turkeyspit.3965Turkeyspit.3965 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Zenith.7301 said:
    I'd rather they not further reduce the incentives to raid by introducing a far more accessible competitor.

    While I don't raid but do T4's daily, I have to agree with this statement.

    I would love to see fractal exclusive armor skins though. It would even be cool if they had two different tiers, one purchasable with relics, the other with ESS.

  • Hesacon.8735Hesacon.8735 Member ✭✭✭

    @Zenith.7301 said:
    I'd rather they not further reduce the incentives to raid by introducing a far more accessible competitor.

    The raiding community is all the incentive I need not to raid.

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Zenith.7301 said:
    I'd rather they not further reduce the incentives to raid by introducing a far more accessible competitor.

    Unfortunately it’s too late for that, since the Legendary WvW and PvP already compete against the raid armor.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 3, 2018

    @Tyson.5160 said:

    @Zenith.7301 said:
    I'd rather they not further reduce the incentives to raid by introducing a far more accessible competitor.

    Unfortunately it’s too late for that, since the Legendary WvW and PvP already compete against the raid armor.

    Note they stated:

    “I'd rather they not further reduce the incentives to raid by introducing a far more accessible competitor.”

    Bolded the keyword.

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Which is fair, however the comment comes off as, only Raids should be entitled to having nice things. Give players more choice. If the only reason people are going into Raids strictly for the Armor, then it’s not really someone who is there for the joy of raiding in the first place. Maybe that will develop into a love of the game mode, it’s certainly possible.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 3, 2018

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    Not adding CMs as a requirement for the Legendary would mean it's a farm/grind thing alone

    Envoy set doesn't require CMs eiter, you know. And as for grind, it shouldn't be any longer than for the other sets.

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Remember:
    "When you point one finger, there are three fingers pointing back to you."

    That would result in an infinite number of pointed fingers...

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    Not adding CMs as a requirement for the Legendary would mean it's a farm/grind thing alone

    Envoy set doesn't require CMs eiter, you know. And as for grind, it shouldn't be any longer than for the other sets.

    Debatable, I personally completely disagree with the spvp legendary armor but the objective of that one is clear: get people to play the mode.

    It comes to reason that a non raid pve legendary would be more grindy or time gated.

  • Why not. Lets make pve armor as well just farm brisban until you get it

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 3, 2018

    @Tyson.5160 said:
    Which is fair, however the comment comes off as, only Raids should be entitled to having nice things. Give players more choice. If the only reason people are going into Raids strictly for the Armor, then it’s not really someone who is there for the joy of raiding in the first place. Maybe that will develop into a love of the game mode, it’s certainly possible.

    So if Anet stripped all rewards from the game, only those who still play are the ones that do so for the joy of playing the game? Is that healthy for the game?

  • zencow.3651zencow.3651 Member ✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Debatable, I personally completely disagree with the spvp legendary armor but the objective of that one is clear: get people to play the mode.

    Well no, it was meant to be so main sPvPers had a way to access the same levels of PvE gear so they weren't disconnected from the rest of the community. Ascended glory shards were hard to get and were a reflection of skill back pips could also be lost. PvErs pvping solely because it's an easy way to get legendary armor was a side-effect that came with making the rewards farmable and negatively introduced players who really don't care whether they win or lost into the game mode.

  • This sort of change would benefit people who don't or refuse to raid and are able to fractal. That's a fairly small additional group of players, even accounting for the masses of people who don't yet fractal but might consider it. So aside from any speculation about what requirements there might be, and what costs there might be, this seems like a big chunk of work for ANet without adding noticeably more accessibility.

    People have mentioned downsides, which are substantial: there would be some disincentive to raid, there would be an influx of people who don't bother to learn how to fractal, hoping to cash in. And there are some upsides: a new crop of potential fractal regulars (some of whom will be good/great). And for those who fractal all the time, some additional benefits: it "only" takes a year and a half of dailies+rex to reach Fractal God.

    On the whole, though, I'm not convinced that the OP's argument is enough to convince ANet to reconsider adding a fourth acquisition method for gear with legendary stat swapping features.

    "With great power comes not-so-great utility bills."

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 3, 2018

    @zencow.3651 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Debatable, I personally completely disagree with the spvp legendary armor but the objective of that one is clear: get people to play the mode.

    Well no, it was meant to be so main sPvPers had a way to access the same levels of PvE gear so they weren't disconnected from the rest of the community. Ascended glory shards were hard to get and were a reflection of skill back pips could also be lost. PvErs pvping solely because it's an easy way to get legendary armor was a side-effect that came with making the rewards farmable and negatively introduced players who really don't care whether they win or lost into the game mode.

    I disagree, spvp players have access to gear which is far beyond what most pve players have access to, since the vast majority of pve players do not raid. On top of which spvp costs nearly no gold or resource investment, so access to pve gear from rewards gained in spvp is quite easy. I'm fine with spvp players having access to legendary armor, it still does not make sense.

    The major reason to add useless (to the mode) legendary armor to spvp was to keep the mode semi active. Similar to how season 5 handed out 1 set of free ascended armor in spvp (from the minimal effort required perspective).

    As with all things (raids too), the price is coming due. People are finishing their legendary armor spvp sets, finishing their 1st, 2nd, 3rd or x-th raid set and the interest is waning. Having something like this happen on a broad scale (by introducing a to easy to acquire "final" gear set for the vast majority of pve players) could be quite a blow to the game or would need to be designed around properly. Hence why I believe an alternative pve legendary set would be heavily time gated and/or expensive.

  • zencow.3651zencow.3651 Member ✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @zencow.3651 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Debatable, I personally completely disagree with the spvp legendary armor but the objective of that one is clear: get people to play the mode.

    Well no, it was meant to be so main sPvPers had a way to access the same levels of PvE gear so they weren't disconnected from the rest of the community. Ascended glory shards were hard to get and were a reflection of skill back pips could also be lost. PvErs pvping solely because it's an easy way to get legendary armor was a side-effect that came with making the rewards farmable and negatively introduced players who really don't care whether they win or lost into the game mode.

    I disagree, spvp players have access to gear which is far beyond what most pve players have access to, since the vast majority of pve players do not raid. On top of which spvp costs nearly no gold or resource investment, so access to pve gear from rewards gained in spvp is quite easy. I'm fine with spvp players having access to legendary armor, it still does not make sense.

    The major reason to add useless (to the mode) legendary armor to spvp was to keep the mode semi active. Similar to how season 5 handed out 1 set of free ascended armor in spvp (from the minimal effort required perspective).

    As with all things (raids too), the price is coming due. People are finishing their legendary armor spvp sets, finishing their 1st, 2nd, 3rd or x-th raid set and the interest is waning. Having something like this happen on a broad scale (by introducing a to easy to acquire "final" gear set for the vast majority of pve players) could be quite a blow to the game or would need to be designed around properly. Hence why I believe an alternative pve legendary set would be heavily time gated and/or expensive.

    I don't disagree with that,
    I too disagree with how the game's reward systems catering too much to a certain type that it becomes the default mode of thinking and getting on teams/comms/learning about game mechanics gets perceived as too tryhard. Then those same players feel entitled to the exclusive rewards with lesser effort.

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 4, 2018

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @zencow.3651 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Debatable, I personally completely disagree with the spvp legendary armor but the objective of that one is clear: get people to play the mode.

    Well no, it was meant to be so main sPvPers had a way to access the same levels of PvE gear so they weren't disconnected from the rest of the community. Ascended glory shards were hard to get and were a reflection of skill back pips could also be lost. PvErs pvping solely because it's an easy way to get legendary armor was a side-effect that came with making the rewards farmable and negatively introduced players who really don't care whether they win or lost into the game mode.

    I disagree, spvp players have access to gear which is far beyond what most pve players have access to, since the vast majority of pve players do not raid. On top of which spvp costs nearly no gold or resource investment, so access to pve gear from rewards gained in spvp is quite easy. I'm fine with spvp players having access to legendary armor, it still does not make sense.

    The major reason to add useless (to the mode) legendary armor to spvp was to keep the mode semi active. Similar to how season 5 handed out 1 set of free ascended armor in spvp (from the minimal effort required perspective).

    As with all things (raids too), the price is coming due. People are finishing their legendary armor spvp sets, finishing their 1st, 2nd, 3rd or x-th raid set and the interest is waning. Having something like this happen on a broad scale (by introducing a to easy to acquire "final" gear set for the vast majority of pve players) could be quite a blow to the game or would need to be designed around properly. Hence why I believe an alternative pve legendary set would be heavily time gated and/or expensive.

    Most of the components are the same, except the provisionor tokens. The precursor pieces will end up costing some money too potentially with the crafting marks system.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Legendary_armor

    You still need the T6, T5, T4, T5 mats as well, same with the cube of stabilized energy.

    The PvP Armor also takes a minimal of 3 leagues for the league tickets. This takes a lot of time and effort to complete, speaking as someone who has created a set of PvP Legendary Armor and the effort it takes is nothing to scoff at, especially if you are going for the Mistforged Glorious Hero Armor.

    Edit: Mistforged costs additional ascended shards, crafting marks and ectos as well has having unlocked the ardent set and having a PvP rank of 100.

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Tyson.5160 said:
    Which is fair, however the comment comes off as, only Raids should be entitled to having nice things. Give players more choice. If the only reason people are going into Raids strictly for the Armor, then it’s not really someone who is there for the joy of raiding in the first place. Maybe that will develop into a love of the game mode, it’s certainly possible.

    So if Anet stripped all rewards from the game, only those who still play are the ones that do so for the joy of playing the game? Is that healthy for the game?

    No, but you will have people that will raid, get their Armor then leave. Then you will have people who will raid get their Armor and stay, that’s all. I would say the latter likes raiding more and enjoy it.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tyson.5160 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @zencow.3651 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Debatable, I personally completely disagree with the spvp legendary armor but the objective of that one is clear: get people to play the mode.

    Well no, it was meant to be so main sPvPers had a way to access the same levels of PvE gear so they weren't disconnected from the rest of the community. Ascended glory shards were hard to get and were a reflection of skill back pips could also be lost. PvErs pvping solely because it's an easy way to get legendary armor was a side-effect that came with making the rewards farmable and negatively introduced players who really don't care whether they win or lost into the game mode.

    I disagree, spvp players have access to gear which is far beyond what most pve players have access to, since the vast majority of pve players do not raid. On top of which spvp costs nearly no gold or resource investment, so access to pve gear from rewards gained in spvp is quite easy. I'm fine with spvp players having access to legendary armor, it still does not make sense.

    The major reason to add useless (to the mode) legendary armor to spvp was to keep the mode semi active. Similar to how season 5 handed out 1 set of free ascended armor in spvp (from the minimal effort required perspective).

    As with all things (raids too), the price is coming due. People are finishing their legendary armor spvp sets, finishing their 1st, 2nd, 3rd or x-th raid set and the interest is waning. Having something like this happen on a broad scale (by introducing a to easy to acquire "final" gear set for the vast majority of pve players) could be quite a blow to the game or would need to be designed around properly. Hence why I believe an alternative pve legendary set would be heavily time gated and/or expensive.

    Most of the components are the same, except the provisionor tokens. The precursor pieces will end up costing some money too potentially with the crafting marks system.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Legendary_armor

    You still need the T6, T5, T4, T5 mats as well, same with the cube of stabilized energy.

    The PvP Armor also takes a minimal of 3 leagues for the league tickets. This takes a lot of time and effort to complete, speaking as someone who has created a set of PvP Legendary Armor and the effort it takes is nothing to scoff at, especially if you are going for the Mistforged Glorious Hero Armor.

    Edit: Mistforged costs additional ascended shards, crafting marks and ectos as well has having unlocked the ardent set and having a PvP rank of 100.

    True, I didn't say spvp legendary armor was free, I said it is being handed out in a game mode for which it has 0 use and requires very little skill (if at all).

    As of right now:
    Full legendary light spvp armor cost (Ardent Glorious Light): 1,814 gold
    Full legendary light perfect envoy armor: 1,947 gold

    That is not factoring for ANY:

    • expenses or crafting of mystic clovers
    • gearing of characters
    • buff food
    • time gates like provisioner tokens or chack eggs
    • collections required (for the pve precursor)
    • practice or training for raids to actually clear wing 1-4 bosses
    • etc.

    The spvp legendary has 1 thing: a 3 season time gate. Nearly no expenses while acquiring materials, requires only time commitment and no skill, gets a ton of the required materials in form of spvp reward chests (mystic clovers for example).

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tyson.5160 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Tyson.5160 said:
    Which is fair, however the comment comes off as, only Raids should be entitled to having nice things. Give players more choice. If the only reason people are going into Raids strictly for the Armor, then it’s not really someone who is there for the joy of raiding in the first place. Maybe that will develop into a love of the game mode, it’s certainly possible.

    So if Anet stripped all rewards from the game, only those who still play are the ones that do so for the joy of playing the game? Is that healthy for the game?

    No, but you will have people that will raid, get their Armor then leave. Then you will have people who will raid get their Armor and stay, that’s all. I would say the latter likes raiding more and enjoy it.

    And the same can be said about everything else in the game. Very few people will do things just for the fun of it after the first time.

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Tyson.5160 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @zencow.3651 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Debatable, I personally completely disagree with the spvp legendary armor but the objective of that one is clear: get people to play the mode.

    Well no, it was meant to be so main sPvPers had a way to access the same levels of PvE gear so they weren't disconnected from the rest of the community. Ascended glory shards were hard to get and were a reflection of skill back pips could also be lost. PvErs pvping solely because it's an easy way to get legendary armor was a side-effect that came with making the rewards farmable and negatively introduced players who really don't care whether they win or lost into the game mode.

    I disagree, spvp players have access to gear which is far beyond what most pve players have access to, since the vast majority of pve players do not raid. On top of which spvp costs nearly no gold or resource investment, so access to pve gear from rewards gained in spvp is quite easy. I'm fine with spvp players having access to legendary armor, it still does not make sense.

    The major reason to add useless (to the mode) legendary armor to spvp was to keep the mode semi active. Similar to how season 5 handed out 1 set of free ascended armor in spvp (from the minimal effort required perspective).

    As with all things (raids too), the price is coming due. People are finishing their legendary armor spvp sets, finishing their 1st, 2nd, 3rd or x-th raid set and the interest is waning. Having something like this happen on a broad scale (by introducing a to easy to acquire "final" gear set for the vast majority of pve players) could be quite a blow to the game or would need to be designed around properly. Hence why I believe an alternative pve legendary set would be heavily time gated and/or expensive.

    Most of the components are the same, except the provisionor tokens. The precursor pieces will end up costing some money too potentially with the crafting marks system.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Legendary_armor

    You still need the T6, T5, T4, T5 mats as well, same with the cube of stabilized energy.

    The PvP Armor also takes a minimal of 3 leagues for the league tickets. This takes a lot of time and effort to complete, speaking as someone who has created a set of PvP Legendary Armor and the effort it takes is nothing to scoff at, especially if you are going for the Mistforged Glorious Hero Armor.

    Edit: Mistforged costs additional ascended shards, crafting marks and ectos as well has having unlocked the ardent set and having a PvP rank of 100.

    True, I didn't say spvp legendary armor was free, I said it is being handed out in a game mode for which it has 0 use and requires very little skill (if at all).

    As of right now:
    Full legendary light spvp armor cost (Ardent Glorious Light): 1,814 gold
    Full legendary light perfect envoy armor: 1,947 gold

    That is not factoring for ANY:

    • expenses or crafting of mystic clovers
    • gearing of characters
    • buff food
    • time gates like provisioner tokens or chack eggs
    • collections required (for the pve precursor)
    • practice or training for raids to actually clear wing 1-4 bosses
    • etc.

    The spvp legendary has 1 thing: a 3 season time gate. Nearly no expenses while acquiring materials, requires only time commitment and no skill, gets a ton of the required materials in form of spvp reward chests (mystic clovers for example).

    Yeah skill is not required for the Armor, in theory you could lose your way to the Armor, it would be an agonizingly slow grind of pure death, but it’s not impossible. What skill does do in PvP is it gets you to your goal much faster.

  • Zenith.7301Zenith.7301 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 4, 2018

    @Tyson.5160 said:

    @Zenith.7301 said:
    I'd rather they not further reduce the incentives to raid by introducing a far more accessible competitor.

    Unfortunately it’s too late for that, since the Legendary WvW and PvP already compete against the raid armor.

    WvW and PvP are entirely different formats, and their armor is basically an ugly consolation reward without even proper art assets gated behind massive timegates on top of cost.

    Fractals directly compete with raids. They use the same builds more or less, with the similar dominant specs and they're logistically far easier to manage so if fractals gave legendary armor, unless it was some hideous bland set of armor with just stat swapping, it would seriously drain from the raiding pool.

    Fractal rewards are more than fine as is. If anything, raiding needs massively improved monetary rewards to begin with.

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 4, 2018

    @Zenith.7301 said:

    @Tyson.5160 said:

    @Zenith.7301 said:
    I'd rather they not further reduce the incentives to raid by introducing a far more accessible competitor.

    Unfortunately it’s too late for that, since the Legendary WvW and PvP already compete against the raid armor.

    WvW and PvP are entirely different formats, and their armor is basically an ugly consolation reward without even proper art assets gated behind massive timegates on top of cost.

    Fractals directly compete with raids. They use the same builds more or less, with the similar dominant specs and they're logistically far easier to manage so if fractals gave legendary armor, unless it was some hideous bland set of armor with just stat swapping, it would seriously drain from the raiding pool.

    Fractal rewards are more than fine as is. If anything, raiding needs massively improved monetary rewards to begin with.

    Ok, but what does that say about raiding, if it’s threatened by Legendary Fractal Armor.

    Also ugly is an opinion as well as personal taste. I like the Mistforged Glorious Set over Envoy.

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Tyson.5160 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Tyson.5160 said:
    Which is fair, however the comment comes off as, only Raids should be entitled to having nice things. Give players more choice. If the only reason people are going into Raids strictly for the Armor, then it’s not really someone who is there for the joy of raiding in the first place. Maybe that will develop into a love of the game mode, it’s certainly possible.

    So if Anet stripped all rewards from the game, only those who still play are the ones that do so for the joy of playing the game? Is that healthy for the game?

    No, but you will have people that will raid, get their Armor then leave. Then you will have people who will raid get their Armor and stay, that’s all. I would say the latter likes raiding more and enjoy it.

    And the same can be said about everything else in the game. Very few people will do things just for the fun of it after the first time.

    So the people who have the Armor set or multiple sets, are still raiding for what purpose? It’s not like you make a lot of gold off of Raiding.

  • Hyper Cutter.9376Hyper Cutter.9376 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 4, 2018

    @Zenith.7301 said:
    I'd rather they not further reduce the incentives to raid by introducing a far more accessible competitor.

    If legendary armor is the only thing getting people to raid (especially people who didn't want to raid in the first place, but have no alternative for legendary armor in the game mode they prefer), then raids have failed as a game mode.

    There is literally no reason you can't craft legendary armor the way you craft legendary weapons, other than Anet trying to strongarm people into doing content they specifically didn't intend to be accessible to most players.

  • Eramonster.2718Eramonster.2718 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 4, 2018

    Not necessary to be legendary armor. Would be happy if its just some intricated Golden Armor Skins crafted using golden fractal relics (I need a sink for these :tongue:). With the same concept as crafting Requiem skins.

    No harm having more rewards for any content imo :smiley:. What could possibly happen? Aside from rants about Locking exclusive rewards behind T4 fractals wall... :bleep_bloop:

  • @Eramonster.2718 said:
    Would be happy if its just some intricated Golden Armor Skins crafted using golden fractal relics

    I like this idea better. I'd rather each mode have its own set of unique rewards rather than have an alternative option for the same thing in every mode.

    Unfortunately, there's a limit to the amount of skins ANet can offer. They'll never sate our lust for more, for shinier, for glowier, for skimpier (for less skimpy), and so on. I'm all in favor of more; I just don't think any gaming studio can be expected to deliver enough 'more'.

    "With great power comes not-so-great utility bills."

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:
    People have mentioned downsides, which are substantial: there would be some disincentive to raid, there would be an influx of people who don't bother to learn how to fractal, hoping to cash in.

    One more downside, that is also important, is that Envoy Armor is not locked just in Raids, it's locked behind Heart of Thorns Raids. You can't get Envoy Armor by running Path of Fire Raids. Adding another PVE version of Legendary Armor (in Core content!) like Fractals is not only going to remove incentive from running Heart of Thorns Raids but also remove incentive from playing (and even buying?) Heart of Thorns in general. While also make it very hard to justify adding another Legendary Armor set in a future expansion, either in future Raids (unlikely) or in any other part of a future expansion.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 4, 2018

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Tyson.5160 said:
    Which is fair, however the comment comes off as, only Raids should be entitled to having nice things. Give players more choice. If the only reason people are going into Raids strictly for the Armor, then it’s not really someone who is there for the joy of raiding in the first place. Maybe that will develop into a love of the game mode, it’s certainly possible.

    So if Anet stripped all rewards from the game, only those who still play are the ones that do so for the joy of playing the game? Is that healthy for the game?

    People do like to be rewarded, that's true. But is there any reason for them to be rewarded specifically for raids, over a different type of content? Is pushing people towards content they don't like instead of allowing them to get rewards in a mode they prefer healthy for the game?

    In realiy, from the developer's point of view, there should be no difference whatsoever in which content players are going to obtain their legendary armor, as long as doing so will keep them engaged for about the same time. So, if a fractal legendary armor will cause some people to move from raids to fractals, it's not a problem at all. In fact, it can be beneficial, because players tend to stay longer in the game if they enjoy the content more.

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:
    People have mentioned downsides, which are substantial: there would be some disincentive to raid, there would be an influx of people who don't bother to learn how to fractal, hoping to cash in.

    One more downside, that is also important, is that Envoy Armor is not locked just in Raids, it's locked behind Heart of Thorns Raids. You can't get Envoy Armor by running Path of Fire Raids. Adding another PVE version of Legendary Armor (in Core content!) like Fractals is not only going to remove incentive from running Heart of Thorns Raids but also remove incentive from playing (and even buying?) Heart of Thorns in general. While also make it very hard to justify adding another Legendary Armor set in a future expansion, either in future Raids (unlikely) or in any other part of a future expansion.

    You can easily lock it behind the legendary mastery, which would require buying an expac. Or, you know, use the provisioner tokens.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    People do like to be rewarded, that's true. But is there any reason for them to be rewarded specifically for any type of content?

    Revised the question for you.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 4, 2018

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    People do like to be rewarded, that's true. But is there any reason for them to be rewarded specifically for any type of content?

    Revised the question for you.

    Depends on the game. Most of them ae doing perfectly fine with no rewards whatsoever. MMOs though unfortunately do have an expectation that players are going to get rewarded for playing, and it would be too hard to change that now. So yeah, there is a reason for players to be rewarded for playing any type of content. Specific content, however...
    Remember, from the developer's point of view it doesn't matter if player plays content A or content B, as long as they play and use the gemshop.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 4, 2018

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    People do like to be rewarded, that's true. But is there any reason for them to be rewarded specifically for any type of content?

    Revised the question for you.

    Depends on the game. Most of them ae doing perfectly fine with no rewards whatsoever. MMOs though unfortunately do have an expectation that players are going to get rewarded for playing, and it would be too hard to change that now. So yeah, there is a reason for players to be rewarded for playing any type of content. Specific content, however...
    Remember, from the developer's point of view it doesn't matter if player plays content A or content B, as long as they play and use the gemshop.

    Not quite true. It absolutely matters in both reward and implementation.

    For example:
    handing out a free legendary to each active account for simply loging in on a specific day would most certainly drive login rates through the roof. It would also not last long and would crash the market for a set period of time.

    How does this relate to pve legendary armor?
    Simple, make legendary armor to easily available to the vast majority of the player base in the most played game mode, and there will be issues down the road. Raid legendary armor was always implemented with the idea that not the entire player base will get it. The addition of spvp and wvw legendary armor later was likely due to the effect of legendary armor on the market and games economy being smaller than expected.

    A huge issue is that the cost disparity between legendary armor and ascended weapons is not as big as with weapons. Armor you get once and at a fraction of the cost compared to upgrading ascended to legendary weapons (and given how weapons are balanced, specific weapons work with specific builds). Weapons cost almost as much as an entire armor set while the armor set works for all builds.

    Those are unfortunately economic factors which developers have to design around. Clearly visible in the Sigil/Rune change which was changed mostly to accommodate new realities in which legendary items have Sigil/Rune swapping capabilities (and to promote upgrade extractors and BLSK).

    Hence why I said: tie it to Fractal God for pve (or a lower tier of the title, maybe rank 2 or 3). The length of acquiring this is longer than spvp and wvw but not impossible, while being good enough allows for a faster completion by doing CMs both encouraging people to improve their game play as well as promote fractals.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 4, 2018

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    Remember, from the developer's point of view it doesn't matter if player plays content A or content B, as long as they play and use the gemshop.

    Not quite true. It absolutely matters in both reward and implementation.

    For example:
    handing out a free legendary to each active account for simply loging in on a specific day would most certainly drive login rates through the roof. It would also not last long and would crash the market for a set period of time.

    We're not talking about free legendary though. We're talking about something that would keep the player similarily engaged and playing for at least the same amount of time.

    If a player spends 3 months of dedicated play and a ton of gold/mats on it, it doesn't really matter which mode they were playing - fractals or raids.

    How does this relate to pve legendary armor?
    Simple, make legendary armor to easily available to the vast majority of the player base in the most played game mode, and there will be issues down the road.

    Fractals are hardly a "most played game mode". Even if they are more popular than raids.

    Raid legendary armor was always implemented with the idea that not the entire player base will get it.

    Which of course means its player retain value was lost on most players. Which means you now have to give something for them as well.

    The addition of spvp and wvw legendary armor later was likely due to the effect of legendary armor on the market and games economy being smaller than expected.

    Considering it was aimed at a small subset of players in the first place, you could hardly expect it to have any major impact.
    (and by "aimed at smal subset" i don't mean "not the entire player base will get it", but rather "only a small subset will ever consider pursuing it"). More likely it was added for the reason i mentioned above - envoy armor doing absolutely nothing to retain a huge majority of players, so other means are needed.

    A huge issue is that the cost disparity between legendary armor and ascended weapons is not as big as with weapons. Armor you get once and at a fraction of the cost compared to upgrading ascended to legendary weapons (and given how weapons are balanced, specific weapons work with specific builds). Weapons cost almost as much as an entire armor set while the armor set works for all builds.

    Nah, the main issue is that everyone can attempt to pursue a gen1 legendary weapon. For some it may take years, but they will stil be able to walk on that path. In case of armor though, only raiders (and now PvPers of both modes) can do so.

    Gen 1 weapons were a longterm goal for a whole game population, but armor sets are goals for only small subsets of it. That's why, even if the weapons cost more, there are (and will be) far more of people with them than it is for armor. Yes, the price difference will have an impact, but it's only going to get accerbated even more by the acquisition disparity.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

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