Legendary Fractal Armour - Page 3 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Legendary Fractal Armour

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Comments

  • Tails.9372Tails.9372 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 5, 2018

    @Henry.5713 said:
    Unless ArenaNet did indeed exclude CMs from the list and possibly even limit the amount of T4s you would have to completely to a one-time thing while allowing you to stick to the lower levels mostly.

    But this wouldn't remove any of the "real barriers" either because (despite what some people would want to make you believe) it's not really about "skill" or "difficulty". It never was, it never will be. It's about the content itself. Low level fractals are easy AF and yet people are more willing to engage with more difficult OW content. It takes less "skill" to acquire the legendary WvW set than Aurora and yet the later one seems to be a lot more common.

    @Henry.5713 said:
    one has to wonder why even use Fracatals in the first place then. They might as well go the Open World grind route then

    Because the style of content is inherently different. Ideally both fractals and OW PvM should get their own legendary armor sets.

  • Henry.5713Henry.5713 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 5, 2018

    @Tails.9372 said:

    @Henry.5713 said:
    Unless ArenaNet did indeed exclude CMs from the list and possibly even limit the amount of T4s you would have to completely to a one-time thing while allowing you to stick to the lower levels mostly.

    But this wouldn't remove any of the "real barriers" either because (despite what some people would want to make you believe) it's not really about "skill" or "difficulty". It never was, it never will be. Low level fractals are easy AF and yet people are more willing to engage with more difficult OW content. It takes less "skill" to acquire the legendary WvW set then Aurora and yet the later one seems to be a lot more common.

    @Henry.5713 said:
    one has to wonder why even use Fracatals in the first place then. They might as well go the Open World grind route then

    Because the style of content is inherently different. Ideally both fractals and OW PvM should get their own legendary armor sets.

    Please enlighten me on those "real barriers" then and I certainly wouldn't say every single piece of the vast amount of different PvE content needs it's own unique and exclusive legendary armor set. The current set requires a lot of PvE outside of raids which already makes them the "PvE legnedary armor" just like there is a PvP and a WvW version. On I similar note, I don't believe in adding another round of legendary weapons exclusive to raids or any other niche PvE content either, just so people do not have to run OW content.

    Nothing is particularly hard if you divide it into small jobs. Henry Ford

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @phs.6089 said:

    @Tyson.5160 said:

    @phs.6089 said:

    @Tyson.5160 said:

    @phs.6089 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @phs.6089 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @phs.6089 said:
    Just saying Legendary PvP armor is also locked behind HoT.

    It's not locked behind HoT, it's locked behind any expansion, current and future one. Envoy armor is locked specifically behind HoT.

    Sadly it is. I have an alt with PoF only, would you like some screenshots?

    Which part of it can't you buy without HoT?

    https://imgur.com/a/Al7DO8I

    Is that also the same for the WvW too?

    Prolly I don't wvw and know very little of it. But given not shiny wvw legendary was added with pvp one, should be same.

    I would assume the components of the gift of war dedication are also locked. Good to know. Fractal Armor would likely require a gift of Fractal dedication, which they could lock behind Heart of Thorns. Done and done.

    Just went to visit Warmaster Razor on PoF account, for science. It's same for WvW. Legendary parts are for HoT only.

    Thanks Phs, these things are good to know!

  • phs.6089phs.6089 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I don't understand why people are against it. Game is locked on ascended stats, there isn't anything better. Legendary gear are
    1. convenient items.
    2. bragging rights.

    Legendary armor from fractals and hell even OW will keep people busy in a game with no gearmill.
    Will it take players from raids? It might but it will take those that are there to farm(!) not play and morally support the content.
    They will leave anyway.
    Will other legendary sets take away the bragging rights of having Envoy? No they won't.

    I can only see positive sides of adding more legendary armor sets. Mat sinks and added playtime, additional goals for players.
    Would any raider be agaist to get second leg set from fractals for alt that wears other weight armor then main? I don't think so.
    So what is the deal?

    /// Before anyone attempts to say I want it for myself. I play spvp 5th season have enough tickets and shards for set and half. But I learned that is quicker to switch character, then change stats/sigils/runes/traits. I'm not making any leg armor :) I better make another character if I feel i need more then 2 mesmers , 2 guards and now 2 necros.

    I dream of elves in GW2.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @phs.6089 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Tyson.5160 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Tyson.5160 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Tyson.5160 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Tyson.5160 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    @Tyson.5160 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:
    People have mentioned downsides, which are substantial: there would be some disincentive to raid, there would be an influx of people who don't bother to learn how to fractal, hoping to cash in.

    One more downside, that is also important, is that Envoy Armor is not locked just in Raids, it's locked behind Heart of Thorns Raids. You can't get Envoy Armor by running Path of Fire Raids. Adding another PVE version of Legendary Armor (in Core content!) like Fractals is not only going to remove incentive from running Heart of Thorns Raids but also remove incentive from playing (and even buying?) Heart of Thorns in general. While also make it very hard to justify adding another Legendary Armor set in a future expansion, either in future Raids (unlikely) or in any other part of a future expansion.

    They already do this naturally by telling players that Raids are not for everybody and thus stating that Legendary Armor is not for everybody. Which from a marketing stand point is shooting themselves in the foot.

    Um, no. Raids are marketed to a different group of players and the mode has been apparently (according to ANet) more successful than they expected. It draws in and retains players interested in challenging content. The exclusive armor skin is part of the draw.

    There's an existing discussion over whether it's best for the game to attract that niche of players (ANet clearly thinks so; some players clearly disagree) and a separate argument about whether there should be any exclusive rewards (that's a generic question about game design). In the end, however, it's ANet's game and their future that depends on ANet making a good choice. And since they have 10+ years of success at it, I'm inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt that they know better than we do about what will be successful.

    Yes, but what Madd was saying is that if you introduce Fractal Legendary Armor you are telling players not to buy Heart of Thorns because that’s the only current way to get PVE Legendary Armor, through raids. What I’m saying is that they are already telling people that this Armor isn’t for you, if you don’t have the skill for raiding, which in and of itself not really beneficial to entice people to buy Heart of Thorns.

    Just like how so many PvE rewards aren’t for PvP players then (and vice versa)? This isn’t Anet telling people that this isn’t for them but the players doing it to themselves. Everyone has the capacity to get better at raids but they choose not to do so assuming they even try in the first place.

    I’m pretty sure Anet came out and said that up front. Crystal Reid if I recall.

    She said from a skill perspective. That's different.

    @Tyson.5160 said:
    Sorry Ayrilana, are you for or against Legendary Fractal Armor?

    Against.

    Because it would take players away from Raiding?

    It would take away those solely doing raids for legendary armor. There’s also no need for another set in the game.

    I’m not against Anet releasing a new armor skin set though such as one that shares the theme of fractal weapons.

    Let’s all be honest that people here are wanting legendary armor to be obtainable in fractals because they know they can’t get an easy mode in raids so this is the next best thing.

    Do you think given the choice between Raids and Fractals, if both had Legendary Armor sets, that people would naturally gravity towards fractals or raids?

    Fractals because it would be the next best thing to an easy mode. No different had legendary armor been released to fractals only and then offered for doing core Tyria world bosses. Players would then do core Tyria world bosses because that would be easier.

    Won't it make clear who is there to raid and enjoy the content and who is there to farm legendary armor?
    And again wvw/pvp legendary armors are way ahead of it.

    Remove all rewards from the game. Wont it make it clear who is there to play and enjoy the content and who is there to earn rewards?

  • phs.6089phs.6089 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 5, 2018

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @phs.6089 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Tyson.5160 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Tyson.5160 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Tyson.5160 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Tyson.5160 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    @Tyson.5160 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:
    People have mentioned downsides, which are substantial: there would be some disincentive to raid, there would be an influx of people who don't bother to learn how to fractal, hoping to cash in.

    One more downside, that is also important, is that Envoy Armor is not locked just in Raids, it's locked behind Heart of Thorns Raids. You can't get Envoy Armor by running Path of Fire Raids. Adding another PVE version of Legendary Armor (in Core content!) like Fractals is not only going to remove incentive from running Heart of Thorns Raids but also remove incentive from playing (and even buying?) Heart of Thorns in general. While also make it very hard to justify adding another Legendary Armor set in a future expansion, either in future Raids (unlikely) or in any other part of a future expansion.

    They already do this naturally by telling players that Raids are not for everybody and thus stating that Legendary Armor is not for everybody. Which from a marketing stand point is shooting themselves in the foot.

    Um, no. Raids are marketed to a different group of players and the mode has been apparently (according to ANet) more successful than they expected. It draws in and retains players interested in challenging content. The exclusive armor skin is part of the draw.

    There's an existing discussion over whether it's best for the game to attract that niche of players (ANet clearly thinks so; some players clearly disagree) and a separate argument about whether there should be any exclusive rewards (that's a generic question about game design). In the end, however, it's ANet's game and their future that depends on ANet making a good choice. And since they have 10+ years of success at it, I'm inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt that they know better than we do about what will be successful.

    Yes, but what Madd was saying is that if you introduce Fractal Legendary Armor you are telling players not to buy Heart of Thorns because that’s the only current way to get PVE Legendary Armor, through raids. What I’m saying is that they are already telling people that this Armor isn’t for you, if you don’t have the skill for raiding, which in and of itself not really beneficial to entice people to buy Heart of Thorns.

    Just like how so many PvE rewards aren’t for PvP players then (and vice versa)? This isn’t Anet telling people that this isn’t for them but the players doing it to themselves. Everyone has the capacity to get better at raids but they choose not to do so assuming they even try in the first place.

    I’m pretty sure Anet came out and said that up front. Crystal Reid if I recall.

    She said from a skill perspective. That's different.

    @Tyson.5160 said:
    Sorry Ayrilana, are you for or against Legendary Fractal Armor?

    Against.

    Because it would take players away from Raiding?

    It would take away those solely doing raids for legendary armor. There’s also no need for another set in the game.

    I’m not against Anet releasing a new armor skin set though such as one that shares the theme of fractal weapons.

    Let’s all be honest that people here are wanting legendary armor to be obtainable in fractals because they know they can’t get an easy mode in raids so this is the next best thing.

    Do you think given the choice between Raids and Fractals, if both had Legendary Armor sets, that people would naturally gravity towards fractals or raids?

    Fractals because it would be the next best thing to an easy mode. No different had legendary armor been released to fractals only and then offered for doing core Tyria world bosses. Players would then do core Tyria world bosses because that would be easier.

    Won't it make clear who is there to raid and enjoy the content and who is there to farm legendary armor?
    And again wvw/pvp legendary armors are way ahead of it.

    Remove all rewards from the game. Wont it make it clear who is there to play and enjoy the content and who is there to earn rewards?

    We are not talking of removal, we are talking of adding reward, please don't twist my words.

    I dream of elves in GW2.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @phs.6089 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @phs.6089 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Tyson.5160 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Tyson.5160 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Tyson.5160 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Tyson.5160 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    @Tyson.5160 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:
    People have mentioned downsides, which are substantial: there would be some disincentive to raid, there would be an influx of people who don't bother to learn how to fractal, hoping to cash in.

    One more downside, that is also important, is that Envoy Armor is not locked just in Raids, it's locked behind Heart of Thorns Raids. You can't get Envoy Armor by running Path of Fire Raids. Adding another PVE version of Legendary Armor (in Core content!) like Fractals is not only going to remove incentive from running Heart of Thorns Raids but also remove incentive from playing (and even buying?) Heart of Thorns in general. While also make it very hard to justify adding another Legendary Armor set in a future expansion, either in future Raids (unlikely) or in any other part of a future expansion.

    They already do this naturally by telling players that Raids are not for everybody and thus stating that Legendary Armor is not for everybody. Which from a marketing stand point is shooting themselves in the foot.

    Um, no. Raids are marketed to a different group of players and the mode has been apparently (according to ANet) more successful than they expected. It draws in and retains players interested in challenging content. The exclusive armor skin is part of the draw.

    There's an existing discussion over whether it's best for the game to attract that niche of players (ANet clearly thinks so; some players clearly disagree) and a separate argument about whether there should be any exclusive rewards (that's a generic question about game design). In the end, however, it's ANet's game and their future that depends on ANet making a good choice. And since they have 10+ years of success at it, I'm inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt that they know better than we do about what will be successful.

    Yes, but what Madd was saying is that if you introduce Fractal Legendary Armor you are telling players not to buy Heart of Thorns because that’s the only current way to get PVE Legendary Armor, through raids. What I’m saying is that they are already telling people that this Armor isn’t for you, if you don’t have the skill for raiding, which in and of itself not really beneficial to entice people to buy Heart of Thorns.

    Just like how so many PvE rewards aren’t for PvP players then (and vice versa)? This isn’t Anet telling people that this isn’t for them but the players doing it to themselves. Everyone has the capacity to get better at raids but they choose not to do so assuming they even try in the first place.

    I’m pretty sure Anet came out and said that up front. Crystal Reid if I recall.

    She said from a skill perspective. That's different.

    @Tyson.5160 said:
    Sorry Ayrilana, are you for or against Legendary Fractal Armor?

    Against.

    Because it would take players away from Raiding?

    It would take away those solely doing raids for legendary armor. There’s also no need for another set in the game.

    I’m not against Anet releasing a new armor skin set though such as one that shares the theme of fractal weapons.

    Let’s all be honest that people here are wanting legendary armor to be obtainable in fractals because they know they can’t get an easy mode in raids so this is the next best thing.

    Do you think given the choice between Raids and Fractals, if both had Legendary Armor sets, that people would naturally gravity towards fractals or raids?

    Fractals because it would be the next best thing to an easy mode. No different had legendary armor been released to fractals only and then offered for doing core Tyria world bosses. Players would then do core Tyria world bosses because that would be easier.

    Won't it make clear who is there to raid and enjoy the content and who is there to farm legendary armor?
    And again wvw/pvp legendary armors are way ahead of it.

    Remove all rewards from the game. Wont it make it clear who is there to play and enjoy the content and who is there to earn rewards?

    We are not talking of removal, we are talking of adding reward, please don't twist my words.

    I wasn’t twisting your words as I never said that you suggested that.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    Remove all rewards from the game. Wont it make it clear who is there to play and enjoy the content and who is there to earn rewards?

    Primary reason for the game is to make money for Anet. Thus, if there are people that are in this game only for rewards, without actually enjoying it, it's okay. If they enjoyed it it would be better, of course, but as long as they don't quit that is also fine, i guess.

    Now, that is about the game as a whole, not about any specific content. If a player stays in the game due to content A, from business point of view there's no value in pushing him towards content B. In the case of that player, content B has meaning only if content A didn't work.

    So, there are very good reasons for keeping in this game someone that might have enjoyed a different game better, but there's no reason to keep that someone in a specific content if said player would enjoy a different content within the same game better.

    Thus, obviously, your witty, repeated attempts to equal rewards in specific content to rewards in game as a whole are not even comparing apples to oranges, but more like apples to clay bricks. The color may be somewhat similar (sometimes), but that's about all such a comparison is good for.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Legendery amor and envoy skin should be possible to earn for all not the special few

  • Asum.4960Asum.4960 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    Let’s all be honest here that people are only wanting legendary armor to be obtainable in fractals because they know they can’t get an easy mode in raids so this is the next best thing.

    I will complete my second legendary Armor from Raids this week (light, already got heavy), and am close to getting the medium one from WvW.
    So I'm set.

    The reason I would like a Fractal Armor is because in my eyes, it's just as valid endgame as Raids, sPvP or WvW.
    In fact, while I personally have fractal CM's on comfortable daily clear and don't struggle with them (aside from finding people to do them with daily), I would rate them above almost all Raid bosses in terms of difficulty.

    Considering I'm closing in on Fractal God, I would appreciate more things to strive for in Fractals, as well as a much needed bump to the player population in that mode, especially CM's, as well as further development of that aspect of Fractals.

    Raids are not as crazy difficult as you seem to believe, and if anything, are by far the fastest game mode to get Legendary armor with.
    I've been working on the WvW Legendary armor (or to be precise saving up tickets for future things to come) since before I started raiding, and now am about to make my second Raid armor before getting there.

    If you want Legendary Armor, Raids is the easy and fast way to go if you are a decent player. A Fractal Armor doesn't need to change that.
    It takes arguably more personal skill to perform in a 5 player group, and could require, as mentioned before, CM runs and Fractal titles, making it quite inaccessible, if that's desired, providing an endgame goal and sink for Fractal Veterans, and incentive to get into CM's for new players.

    "As you know, those who you once called friends have become enemies." ~Glint

  • Returning to the original post's idea, the OP wrote:

    [Legendary Armour from PvP and WvW] [& the Illustrious armour that BLING-9009 sells] require similar amounts of Marks and gold.
    So ... why can't the Illustrious armour be converted into ... armour [with legendary properties] too?

    Subsequently, we've seen posts from people who love the idea & some who dislike it. The primary arguments seem to be:

    PRO

    • lots of PvE-focused players dislike raiding, for reasons that include ability to reserve multiple consecutive hours, to feeling it's gimmicked, to having trouble with the concept
    • it could bring new players to fractals
    • people who fractal a lot will eventually run out of currency sinks (less than 10 months to max Attunement-4 for those who do CM)
    • it's a "proportionate" value (as noted by the OP)

    CON

    • it reduces incentive for raiding, i.e. fractals gain of players like means a loss to raids
    • it dilutes the value of the rewards in raids, which (some argue) are weak enough already
    • proportionate rewards aren't necessarily a good thing; better to offer benefits that distinguish each mode from the other

    I'll be happy to add/edit the list above if I missed anything.
    (I'm just hoping to return the discussion back to the original idea.)

    "With great power comes not-so-great utility bills."

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 5, 2018

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    Remove all rewards from the game. Wont it make it clear who is there to play and enjoy the content and who is there to earn rewards?

    Primary reason for the game is to make money for Anet. Thus, if there are people that are in this game only for rewards, without actually enjoying it, it's okay. If they enjoyed it it would be better, of course, but as long as they don't quit that is also fine, i guess.

    Now, that is about the game as a whole, not about any specific content. If a player stays in the game due to content A, from business point of view there's no value in pushing him towards content B. In the case of that player, content B has meaning only if content A didn't work.

    So, there are very good reasons for keeping in this game someone that might have enjoyed a different game better, but there's no reason to keep that someone in a specific content if said player would enjoy a different content within the same game better.

    Thus, obviously, your witty, repeated attempts to equal rewards in specific content to rewards in game as a whole are not even comparing apples to oranges, but more like apples to clay bricks. The color may be somewhat similar (sometimes), but that's about all such a comparison is good for.

    Maybe a better example, instead of removing rewards, would have been to make all rewards in the game available from everywhere. If someone wants to farm world bosses to get legendary armor, fractal weapon skins, fractal tonic, WvW legendary backpack, PvP titles, and so on, then they can. Players could then do the content that they prefer in order to get the rewards that they want and apparently there’s no harm to the game from doing this.

    There’s very little difference between a specific reward like legendary armor and all rewards other than scope. It’s like comparing an apple to a bushel of apples and not to a clay brick. If players have no issue with one item being available in another area then they really shouldn’t have any issues with all items being available in another area as well.

    There’s little difference between having legendary armor to be available in raids, to be available in fractals, to be available from world bosses, or to be available from semi-AFK farming mobs. I’d say skill level would have been a major difference but that has already been dismissed otherwise there wouldn’t have been an issue with them solely being available in raids. If an exception was made for fractals then why couldn’t one be made for any other area of PvE?

  • Asum.4960Asum.4960 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    Maybe a better example, instead of removing rewards, would have been to make all rewards in the game available from everywhere. If someone wants to farm world bosses to get legendary armor, fractal weapon skins, fractal tonic, WvW legendary backpack, PvP titles, and so on, then they can. Players could then do the content that they prefer in order to get the rewards that they want and apparently there’s no harm to the game from doing this.

    There’s very little difference between a specific reward like legendary armor and all rewards other than scope. It’s like comparing an apple to a bushel of apples and not to a clay brick. If players have no issue with one item being available in another area then they really shouldn’t have any issues with all items being available in another area as well.

    There’s little difference between having legendary armor to be available in raids, to be available in fractals, to be available from world bosses, or to be available from semi-AFK farming mobs. I’d say skill level would have been a major difference but that has already been dismissed otherwise there wouldn’t have been an issue with them solely being available in raids. If an exception was made for fractals then why couldn’t one be made for any other area of PvE?

    I don't think there is an argument for the exact same rewards to be added everywhere, but rather quite clearly the same quality of rewards for endgame activities.
    I wouldn't mind at all if Raids got a unique Legendary Backpack too, like Fractals, WvW and sPvP, just like Fractals could get a unique Legendary Armor, like Raids, WvW and sPvP.
    Legendary Armor as mechanic is not a reward unique to Raids, and why should it be? The skin is, that's all.

    And if they would add an open world Legendary armour with a unique skin requiring the killing of 10000 World Bosses, then who cares?
    As long as it's not both easier AND faster to get than the Raid armor, as well as not sharing the skin, how does that take away from the fast to get Raid armor?

    Someone having the dedication to grind out WvW pips for hours daily, for months, if not years, is already way more impressive than hopping in a raid for 3h once a week and be done with it.
    Just like Fractals as daily content doesn't compete with the once weekly Raids.

    Plus I'm not quite sure what your problem with Fractals in general is, as you seem to equate it to running around in open world, when it's in fact on the challenge level of raids, if not above, in terms of required individual skill level, especially with bad instability combinations.

    Not sure if you are grasping straws or trolling..

    "As you know, those who you once called friends have become enemies." ~Glint

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    • it could bring new players to fractals

    Do we really want new players to come to Fractals? I mean, Fractals existed for a very long time, if someone hasn't liked Fractals so far, they won't like it even with the addition of the legendary armor. In fact, they'd most likely go and play content they don't like and cause all sorts of trouble for those already running Fractals. I can already imagine the high influx of threads about "I've been kicked by evil DPS meters!" Further, this adds a high possibility of adding daily T4 selling to the LFG, as those who never bothered with T4 before will... pay to finish it and create a market.

    For old/current Fractal players, it's a great addition, they engaged with the mode because they like it and as you said, they'll run out of sinks eventually, but I don't think bringing entirely new players in Fractals, for the sole purpose of getting the armor, is a PRO but rather a CON. And a big con at that.

    • it reduces incentive for raiding, i.e. fractals gain of players like means a loss to raids

    There is still Path of Fire raids that won't be affected by Fractals getting legendary armor. I think they could balance this by increasing the rewards of Raids, as they are now Fractals are better than Raids. Easier to complete, faster, less players required, can be done daily, and of course higher liquid rewards. If they are to "balance" the rewards by adding another version in Fractals, they could simply increase the rewards of Raids, to make it the best liquid reward content (still weekly of course).

  • phs.6089phs.6089 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    For old/current Fractal players, it's a great addition, they engaged with the mode because they like it and as you said, they'll run out of sinks eventually, but I don't think >bringing entirely new players in Fractals, for the sole purpose of getting the armor, is a PRO but rather a CON. And a big con at that.

    I'm sorry, why exactly bringing new players to fractals is a bad thing?
    Fractals offer what most MMOs did and doing, progression trough dungeoning.

    I dream of elves in GW2.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @phs.6089 said:
    I'm sorry, why exactly bringing new players to fractals is a bad thing?

    It's bad if these new players come only to get their armor.

    Fractals offer what most MMOs did and doing, progression trough dungeoning.

    And they offer that today without the need to add a Legendary Armor as a reward. Why aren't these supposedly new players not liking progression and dungeoneering now but they will suddenly like them both if they add Legendary Armor as a reward? Why haven't these "new" players, that will come to Fractals if they add the Legendary Armor, already played and liked Fractals? Why do they need Legendary Armor to play content that offers what most MMOs do?

  • phs.6089phs.6089 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 5, 2018

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @phs.6089 said:
    I'm sorry, why exactly bringing new players to fractals is a bad thing?

    It's bad if these new players come only to get their armor.

    Fractals offer what most MMOs did and doing, progression trough dungeoning.

    And they offer that today without the need to add a Legendary Armor as a reward. Why aren't these supposedly new players not liking progression and dungeoneering now but they will suddenly like them both if they add Legendary Armor as a reward? Why haven't these "new" players, that will come to Fractals if they add the Legendary Armor, already played and liked Fractals? Why do they need Legendary Armor to play content that offers what most MMOs do?

    I see them, new coming everyday to fractals. If I have time I join t1, t2 and run with then, explain. I own fractal runners a biggie, times I was new those people never were rude, nasty or anything.

    As for the farmers that will come, you should see what is going on in pvp for legendary back item. Luckily there is a 'kick' option in fractals.

    Selling T4s, dunno I see this on NA every now and then.
    'CMs, t4 dailies/200gold/ ' in T1 LFG

    I dream of elves in GW2.

  • Asum.4960Asum.4960 Member ✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    Do we really want new players to come to Fractals? I mean, Fractals existed for a very long time, if someone hasn't liked Fractals so far, they won't like it even with the addition of the legendary armor.

    I really don't understand this gatekeeping in this community.
    There are plenty of people who think they don't like something without ever trying it. Give them the right incentive, and the might find enjoyment in the gamemode, while helping to keep it alive and developed.

    People stop playing/burn out on certain content all the time. If you neglect attracting new players, the game mode will eventually die.
    Most current Fractal goals, such as endless Potions and Titles are great to keep established long time Fractal players engaged, for some time, but are limited to Fractals itself. They don't do much for people not already interested in that content to give Fractals a shot, and to get over initial reservations they may have.

    Especially CM's are in dire need of a bigger players base. They need a big incentive that people outside the world of Fractals can look at and find useful in order to give it a shot.

    "As you know, those who you once called friends have become enemies." ~Glint

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    Let’s all be honest here that people are only wanting legendary armor to be obtainable in fractals because they know they can’t get an easy mode in raids so this is the next best thing.

    I will complete my second legendary Armor from Raids this week (light, already got heavy), and am close to getting the medium one from WvW.
    So I'm set.

    Not getting Medium Armor set from Raids?

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 5, 2018

    @phs.6089 said:
    As for the farmers that will come, you should see what is going on in pvp for legendary back item. Luckily there is a 'kick' option in fractals.

    That was gonna be my next line! The same thing happened in PVP when they added the Legendary back item there (and then legendary armor)
    This is the reason I'm calling "bringing new players" a con and not a pro as I've already seen what happened in PVP with these so called "new players" went to PVP for the shinnies with zero regard to the game mode itself.

    @Asum.4960 said:
    Most current Fractal goals, such as endless Potions and Titles are great to keep established long time Fractal players engaged, for some time, but are limited to Fractals itself. They don't do much for people not already interested in that content to give Fractals a shot, and to get over initial reservations they may have.

    I don't know about you, but I think T1 fractals are easier than many open world meta events. They are also REQUIRED to make Ad Infinitum (a legendary backpack), they are REQUIRED to make most Legendary Weapons (as parts of the Legendary journey) if you don't buy them, or their precursors, from the TP. Are all those legendary rewards so little to entice players to try Fractals and a Legendary Armor instead will do the trick? Sorry, I'm not buying it, there is tons of Legendary items available exclusively through Fractals, do they need more to entice new players?

    Can I get G1 precursor collections in Raids? No. Can I get them in PVP? No. WVW? No. They are Fractal exclusives and very good incentive for players to try them and get over their initial reservations.

    Edit: you need PVP/WVW for the precursors, my bad there

  • phs.6089phs.6089 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 5, 2018

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @phs.6089 said:
    As for the farmers that will come, you should see what is going on in pvp for legendary back item. Luckily there is a 'kick' option in fractals.

    That was gonna be my next line! The same thing happened in PVP when they added the Legendary back item there (and then legendary armor)
    This is the reason I'm calling "bringing new players" a con and not a pro as I've already seen what happened in PVP with these so called "new players" went to PVP for the shinnies with zero regard to the game mode itself.

    @Asum.4960 said:
    Most current Fractal goals, such as endless Potions and Titles are great to keep established long time Fractal players engaged, for some time, but are limited to Fractals itself. They don't do much for people not already interested in that content to give Fractals a shot, and to get over initial reservations they may have.

    I don't know about you, but I think T1 fractals are easier than many open world meta events. They are also REQUIRED to make Ad Infinitum (a legendary backpack), they are REQUIRED to make most Legendary Weapons (as parts of the Legendary journey) if you don't buy them, or their precursors, from the TP. Are all those legendary rewards so little to entice players to try Fractals and a Legendary Armor instead will do the trick? Sorry, I'm not buying it, there is tons of Legendary items available exclusively through Fractals, do they need more to entice new players?

    Can I get G1 precursor collections in Raids? No. Can I get them in PVP? No. WVW? No. They are Fractal exclusives and very good incentive for players to try them and get over their initial reservations.

    Edit: you need PVP/WVW for the precursors, my bad there

    Yeah but in fractals one can not hop into party and afk, troll, farm pips. None in fractals talks of dps before kicking, they juts kick if a person dies too much, has low AR, messes mech etc.
    I don't see this farmers getting anywhere in fractals with attitude they show in pvp.

    Thing with t1 for precursor is a one time run, t1s don't give you even to scratch the surface.

    I dream of elves in GW2.

  • Tails.9372Tails.9372 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 5, 2018

    @Henry.5713 said:
    Please enlighten me on those "real barriers" then

    Personal preference and ease of accessibility, the main reason why raids are inherently niche content (in any MMORPG, not just GW2) is the amount of organisation/coordination it takes which is something many people (first and foremost casuals) are unwilling to bother themselfs with. Same with fractals but to a lesser degree, fractals are designed to be 5 player content and while easily soloable the number of players doing them would be significantly higher if they were desined to be 1-5 player content. OW on the other hand is just the embodyment of easy access, coordination (while often times benificial) is something people usualy don't have to deal with. WvW is similar in that regard but it incorporates a specific type of PvP the average player doesn't want to deal with.

    .

    @Henry.5713 said:
    I certainly wouldn't say every single piece of the vast amount of different PvE content needs

    Again:

    @Tails.9372 said:
    There is no "need" for anything but that's not really an argument as it says nothing about whether or not having it is a good thing. There's no "need" for mounts either but people generally seem to like them so it's safe to say that their inclusion was a good thing.

    .

    @Henry.5713 said:
    The current set requires a lot of PvE outside of raids which already makes them the "PvE legnedary armor" just like there is a PvP and a WvW version.

    It's not even remotely comparable to an overarching set like the sPvP or the WvW ones. You can get a WvW set by exclusively playing borderlands while you can also get the set whithout ever having to bother with this part of the content. The same can't be said about the Envoy set and its relationship to raids. It's not the "PvE" set, if anything it's the HoT raid set.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 6, 2018

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    Maybe a better example, instead of removing rewards, would have been to make all rewards in the game available from everywhere. If someone wants to farm world bosses to get legendary armor, fractal weapon skins, fractal tonic, WvW legendary backpack, PvP titles, and so on, then they can. Players could then do the content that they prefer in order to get the rewards that they want and apparently there’s no harm to the game from doing this.

    Personally i'd not be opposed to this (although i do know that some people would be). There should be always multiple avenues to obtain most things, unless those things don't have any meaning outside of a specific content.

    Specifically, i do believe that a full legendary set (weapons, armor and trinkets) should be available for all modes that currently have at least one legendary option. It doesn't have to be the same set, though.

    If players have no issue with one item being available in another area then they really shouldn’t have any issues with all items being available in another area as well.

    Notice, that the discussion is about a fractal legendary armor being available in fractals. It's not about the Envoy set. People having no issue with fractals getting their own legendary armor set might not necessarily have no issue with envoy set being available in fractals.

    There’s little difference between having legendary armor to be available in raids, to be available in fractals, to be available from world bosses, or to be available from semi-AFK farming mobs. I’d say skill level would have been a major difference but that has already been dismissed otherwise there wouldn’t have been an issue with them solely being available in raids. If an exception was made for fractals then why couldn’t one be made for any other area of PvE?

    Oh, yes, i believe that an open world pve legendary armor in the style of gen1 weapons should be a thing as well. I do not believe that Fractals are so special they are somehow more deserving of legendary armor than another type of content. I do not believe Raids are all that special either. So yeah, there's indeed little difference between legendary armor being available in raids or fractals, or open world.

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @phs.6089 said:
    I'm sorry, why exactly bringing new players to fractals is a bad thing?

    It's bad if these new players come only to get their armor.

    Yes. The same as it is for raids. It's exactly why high-profile rewards should not be content-exclusive.

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @phs.6089 said:
    Fractals offer what most MMOs did and doing, progression trough dungeoning.

    And they offer that today without the need to add a Legendary Armor as a reward. Why aren't these supposedly new players not liking progression and dungeoneering now but they will suddenly like them both if they add Legendary Armor as a reward? Why haven't these "new" players, that will come to Fractals if they add the Legendary Armor, already played and liked Fractals? Why do they need Legendary Armor to play content that offers what most MMOs do?

    I tried to ask some similar questions for raids. I haven't heard a good answer yet.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    Maybe a better example, instead of removing rewards, would have been to make all rewards in the game available from everywhere. If someone wants to farm world bosses to get legendary armor, fractal weapon skins, fractal tonic, WvW legendary backpack, PvP titles, and so on, then they can. Players could then do the content that they prefer in order to get the rewards that they want and apparently there’s no harm to the game from doing this.

    Personally i'd not be opposed to this (although i do know that some people would be). There should be always multiple avenues to obtain most things, unless those things don't have any meaning outside of a specific content.

    Specifically, i do believe that a full legendary set (weapons, armor and trinkets) should be available for all modes that currently have at least one legendary option. It doesn't have to be the same set, though.

    If players have no issue with one item being available in another area then they really shouldn’t have any issues with all items being available in another area as well.

    Notice, that the discussion is about a fractal legendary armor being available in fractals. It's not about the Envoy set. People having no issue with fractals getting their own legendary armor set might not necessarily have no issue with envoy set being available in fractals.

    There’s little difference between having legendary armor to be available in raids, to be available in fractals, to be available from world bosses, or to be available from semi-AFK farming mobs. I’d say skill level would have been a major difference but that has already been dismissed otherwise there wouldn’t have been an issue with them solely being available in raids. If an exception was made for fractals then why couldn’t one be made for any other area of PvE?

    Oh, yes, i believe that an open world pve legendary armor in the style of gen1 weapons should be a thing as well. I do not believe that Fractals are so special they are somehow more deserving of legendary armor than another type of content. I do not believe Raids are all that special either. So yeah, there's indeed little difference between legendary armor being available in raids or fractals, or open world.

    I’m not a fan of the Envoy set, mainly because of the looks of the Armor, but the fact that it has nothing to do with the Envoy’s.

    That being said, I would prefer that if Fractals got a Legendary Armor, it should a unique skin to fractals, maybe something resembling the fractal Weapons.

  • @Tyson.5160 said:

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    Let’s all be honest here that people are only wanting legendary armor to be obtainable in fractals because they know they can’t get an easy mode in raids so this is the next best thing.

    I will complete my second legendary Armor from Raids this week (light, already got heavy), and am close to getting the medium one from WvW.
    So I'm set.

    Not getting Medium Armor set from Raids?

    Raid Legendary Armors might be attractive and bragging rights; a year ago, but nowadays it's just meh... just too common now(as if it's standard uniform). More for convenience like some has said. Player's will not salvage them due to the stat and runes swap function. Transmuting the Legendary Armors is as low it will get unlike Ascended which most probably end up being salvaged.

    A nice skin that last(for a long period) will suffice for me. Not against the idea of adding more legendary armors outside of PvE Raid, WvW and PvP, just hope it will be less costly :smile: for players just aftering for the skins like me. Truth to be told, inches away from transmuting Legendary Weapons into "better"/matching skins countless time by now.

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Eramonster.2718 said:

    @Tyson.5160 said:

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    Let’s all be honest here that people are only wanting legendary armor to be obtainable in fractals because they know they can’t get an easy mode in raids so this is the next best thing.

    I will complete my second legendary Armor from Raids this week (light, already got heavy), and am close to getting the medium one from WvW.
    So I'm set.

    Not getting Medium Armor set from Raids?

    Raid Legendary Armors might be attractive and bragging rights; a year ago, but nowadays it's just meh... just too common now(as if it's standard uniform). More for convenience like some has said. Player's will not salvage them due to the stat and runes swap function. Transmuting the Legendary Armors is as low it will get unlike Ascended which most probably end up being salvaged.

    A nice skin that last(for a long period) will suffice for me. Not against the idea of adding more legendary armors outside of PvE Raid, WvW and PvP, just hope it will be less costly :smile: for players just aftering for the skins like me. Truth to be told, inches away from transmuting Legendary Weapons into "better"/matching skins countless time by now.

    I just prefer the Mistforged Triumphant and Mistforged Glorious sets over the Envoy, especially when it comes to dyeing.

  • @Hesacon.8735 said:

    @Zenith.7301 said:
    I'd rather they not further reduce the incentives to raid by introducing a far more accessible competitor.

    The raiding community is all the incentive I need not to raid.

    Hey! Sure there are some sots among the community (there are in any community) but I think we're certainly not all undesirables.

    And no, I don't think there should be legendary armour available through Fractals.

  • Asum.4960Asum.4960 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 6, 2018

    @Tyson.5160 said:

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    Let’s all be honest here that people are only wanting legendary armor to be obtainable in fractals because they know they can’t get an easy mode in raids so this is the next best thing.

    I will complete my second legendary Armor from Raids this week (light, already got heavy), and am close to getting the medium one from WvW.
    So I'm set.

    Not getting Medium Armor set from Raids?

    I like the Heavy skin and at least want to have the Light one, don't like the Medium at all, so I decided to go for those two from Raids, while simultaneously working on the medium in WvW.

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Asum.4960 said:
    Most current Fractal goals, such as endless Potions and Titles are great to keep established long time Fractal players engaged, for some time, but are limited to Fractals itself. They don't do much for people not already interested in that content to give Fractals a shot, and to get over initial reservations they may have.

    I don't know about you, but I think T1 fractals are easier than many open world meta events. They are also REQUIRED to make Ad Infinitum (a legendary backpack), they are REQUIRED to make most Legendary Weapons (as parts of the Legendary journey) if you don't buy them, or their precursors, from the TP. Are all those legendary rewards so little to entice players to try Fractals and a Legendary Armor instead will do the trick? Sorry, I'm not buying it, there is tons of Legendary items available exclusively through Fractals, do they need more to entice new players?

    Can I get G1 precursor collections in Raids? No. Can I get them in PVP? No. WVW? No. They are Fractal exclusives and very good incentive for players to try them and get over their initial reservations.

    Edit: you need PVP/WVW for the precursors, my bad there

    I don't know how many times I have to repeat that especially CM's need more incentives (which a reward like Legendary Armour could justify to play/try) and development.
    T1 Fractals don't need further incentives, especially since high level Fractal rewards incentivise going through them anyway for new players.

    When less than 1% of the entire population of the game ever even completed 100CM once, then surely we can agree that there is a lack of incentives there?
    That is a tiny community for a daily activity in the game to choose from.

    When all the players doing that content are a tiny group of established players who have done it daily for months and expect people of similar skill, it in turn also makes it incredibly hard for new people to come into daily CM runs to get started, further preventing growth, without some big goal driving in enough players to learn the content together.

    "As you know, those who you once called friends have become enemies." ~Glint

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Reverielle.3972 said:

    @Hesacon.8735 said:

    @Zenith.7301 said:
    I'd rather they not further reduce the incentives to raid by introducing a far more accessible competitor.

    The raiding community is all the incentive I need not to raid.

    Hey! Sure there are some sots among the community (there are in any community) but I think we're certainly not all undesirables.

    And no, I don't think there should be legendary armour available through Fractals.

    Why is that?

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 6, 2018

    I just want a fractal armor maaaan, i just a kitten want a fractal themed armor.

    Also no, dont tie it to fractal god, no armor deserves year+ of fractals when the raid armor took 7 months or w/e.

    Instead make some rather hard achievements or cms and tie it to that (with some grind to go along obv but max something like 5 or so months)

    Having long term goals is cool but we already got those some mid term goals are what we need imo.

  • Eramonster.2718Eramonster.2718 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 6, 2018

    @zealex.9410 said:
    Also no, dont tie it to fractal god, no armor deserves year+ of fractals when the raid armor took 7 months or w/e.

    Not to have it heavily gated. Eg. WvW's Sublime Mistforged requires 2k WvW rank! :astonished: a skin surpass Legendary. Thus, hope not costly for players just aftering the skins for those with no plans on getting Legendary armors. Uses existing material sink (enough with new currency and trash drops *cough * Legendary Spike.)

    Then there's X months for a full set of envoy depending on raid progress. Raid resets once a week vs fractals which can be done daily.

  • When less than 1% of the entire population of the game ever even completed 100CM once, then surely we can agree that there is a lack of incentives there?

    I don't agree. First the numbers aren't supported by the stats on GW2 Efficiency (see below); just over 10% have done L100 normal and 8.7% have credit for L100 in challenge mode. (If you have some source for "less than 1%", please share.) Besides which, 100 CM was designed to appeal to the minority of the minority: the hardest-core group of those who embrace this game's 5-person challenging content.

    So it seems to me that the incentives are just enough, at least for now.

    GW2 Efficiency Stats
    • 10.3% have completed Closing the Loop, i.e. FL100/normal
    • 8.7% have completed Mind out of Time, i.e. 100/CM

    In comparison, the following are the stats for completing the various complete tiers:

    • Initiate (1-25): 23.7%
    • Adept (26-50): 11.7%
    • Expert (51-75): 9.8%
    • Master (76-100): 17.7%

    And as another comparison:

    • ~20% have killed Sabetha
    • 4.2% have killed Qadim
    • 27.5% have successfully Escorted Glenna (less than half, only 11.7%, have brought the bunny)

    "With great power comes not-so-great utility bills."

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @phs.6089 said:
    Thing with t1 for precursor is a one time run, t1s don't give you even to scratch the surface.

    The question was to give people incentive to try fractals. Precursors are enough to try them.

  • Talindra.4958Talindra.4958 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Leg fractal armour skin? Yes yes yes.. and yes 😅😅 I like skins 😜 so any new skins I'd support

    Death is Energy [DIE] in EU
    Envoy's Herald, CoZ, VitV, DD, SS, The Eternal, LNHB, Champion Magus, Champion Phantom, Wondrous Achiever etc.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Asum.4960 said:
    I don't know how many times I have to repeat that especially CM's need more incentives (which a reward like Legendary Armour could justify to play/try) and development.
    T1 Fractals don't need further incentives, especially since high level Fractal rewards incentivise going through them anyway for new players.

    And I agree that CMs need extra incentive, this is for both Fractal AND Raid CMs.

    I was responding to:

    There are plenty of people who think they don't like something without ever trying it. Give them the right incentive, and the might find enjoyment in the gamemode, while helping to keep it alive and developed.

    I think precursors and the back pack are enough incentive for players to try Fractals but not enough to keep them in Fractals

  • Vinceman.4572Vinceman.4572 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    I think precursors and the back pack are enough incentive for players to try Fractals but not enough to keep them in Fractals

    This is so true.

    And this is why I don't think we need a legendary fractal armor for the whole PvE community. The majority of casual players need an open world legendary armor. Those people won't step into fractals and be successful there unless you'll get the armor in T1 which will then definitely not bring in many new players into higher tiers.
    If there's the possibility Anet should create that open world armor and maybe another set for fractals at least they should put in a fractal armor but a single legendary fractal armor wouldn't change anything as the open world player base would still feel left out and not satisfied with the situation.
    Since we have a 2nd expansion now and HoT can be acquired for a low amount of money I also don't think the raid legendary armor is working as a selling feature for HoT any longer. Anet could easily pass this old unique feature since I already paid nothing (10€) when I bought HoT for my 2nd account in 2017.

    As a longterm raider with every leggy armor I couldn't care less about the open world community getting their own armor (with a different skin of course). I mean first of all it's nothing special any longer (if it ever was) since everyone who is able to play raids (enough players nowadays) can acquire it and newer players easier than before plus the armor is out now for almost 2 years.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 6, 2018

    @Asum.4960 said:
    I don't know how many times I have to repeat that especially CM's need more incentives (which a reward like Legendary Armour could justify to play/try) and development.

    Do they? If not enough people are running them now, with all the incentives they curently have, then maybe not enough people are simply interested in this level of difficulty in the first place.

    When less than 1% of the entire population of the game ever even completed 100CM once, then surely we can agree that there is a lack of incentives there?

    At best we might agree that there's not enough people interested in that type of content. Why they are not interested is however arguable. I do not believe it's just due to "lack of incentives".

    When all the players doing that content are a tiny group of established players who have done it daily for months and expect people of similar skill, it in turn also makes it incredibly hard for new people to come into daily CM runs to get started, further preventing growth, without some big goal driving in enough players to learn the content together.

    I believe, that it's the difficulty that prevent a bigger influx of players into the mode. Not the lack of incentives.

    Seriously, it's like maddoctor said before. You really, really do not want the mode swamped by people that are there only to farm Legendary Armor. They wouldn't mesh up well with those that are there for the mode itself.

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    I think precursors and the back pack are enough incentive for players to try Fractals but not enough to keep them in Fractals

    Which is as it should be. The incentives exclusive to the content should do exactly that - make players take a look at the content so they can decide whether they like it or not. Any further incentives should be just good enough to make those that did end up liking the content think that they aren't losing out by doing it.
    I believe that currently fractal CM incentives probably fulfill that requirement. Raid CMs do not (there's no reason whatsoever to repeat them), but that seems to be by design.

    Fractal Legendary Armor (like any already existing leg armor set) would probably end up passing that barrier too far, as it would probably require a lot of fractal grind. Still, it would be one of many legendary armor sets, which would give the player a choice which one to pursue.

    Due to that, i believe CMs should not be required for it. At best they should be able to hasten the process by allowing the player to get more relics, pristines and matrices. Or, you could base the leg armor grind component on some new stuff (let's call it fractal insights) that would drop only from t4 daily chests, and just make CMs drop additional ones (that would increase the grind speed for CM runners by 50%, which i believe is a massive incentive already).

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    I believe that currently fractal CM incentives probably fulfill that requirement. Raid CMs do not (there's no reason whatsoever to repeat them), but that seems to be by design.

    Last I remember they are working on a way to make Raid CMs repeatable, who knows what they'll come up with.

    Due to that, i believe CMs should not be required for it. At best they should be able to hasten the process by allowing the player to get more relics, pristines and matrices.

    T1 Fractals are parts of Legendary Precursors, T2/T3 fractals are used for Ad Infinitum (with the exception of the requirement to beat level 95 once, which is part of T4)
    A new reward, like a legendary armor, should have collections that start at least on T3 and go to T4 later on. Even if CMs aren't required, those other collections have more strict requirements (time limits, beat with healing reduction) so it stands to reason that a Legendary Armor would have similar increased requirements (not CM difficulty).

  • Henry.5713Henry.5713 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 6, 2018

    @Tails.9372 said:

    @Henry.5713 said:
    Please enlighten me on those "real barriers" then

    Personal preference and ease of accessibility, the main reason why raids are inherently niche content (in any MMORPG, not just GW2) is the amount of organisation/coordination it takes which is something many people (first and foremost casuals) are unwilling to bother themselfs with. Same with fractals but to a lesser degree, fractals are designed to be 5 player content and while easily soloable the number of players doing them would be significantly higher if they were desined to be 1-5 player content. OW on the other hand is just the embodyment of easy access, coordination (while often times benificial) is something people usualy don't have to deal with. WvW is similar in that regard but it incorporates a specific type of PvP the average player doesn't want to deal with.

    .

    @Henry.5713 said:
    I certainly wouldn't say every single piece of the vast amount of different PvE content needs

    Again:

    @Tails.9372 said:
    There is no "need" for anything but that's not really an argument as it says nothing about whether or not having it is a good thing. There's no "need" for mounts either but people generally seem to like them so it's safe to say that their inclusion was a good thing.

    .

    @Henry.5713 said:
    The current set requires a lot of PvE outside of raids which already makes them the "PvE legnedary armor" just like there is a PvP and a WvW version.

    It's not even remotely comparable to an overarching set like the sPvP or the WvW ones. You can get a WvW set by exclusively playing borderlands while you can also get the set whithout ever having to bother with this part of the content. The same can't be said about the Envoy set and its relationship to raids. It's not the "PvE" set, if anything it's the HoT raid set.

    The lack of comparability comes from the difference in game mode design. Any of these modes and their related reward systems function differently and the legendary armor sets are obviously tied to said reward systems. Thus they require you to play matches in PvP and ask you to show up in WvW to take a small part of that big war for a long time. Neither of these roads are exciting or special but it was the most practical approach and exactly what these modes are about. PvE is quite a different story. They obviously tried to highlight specific content they are proud of such as raid, HoT Metas (or those maps in general). This makes the legendary armor set as much of a PvE set as it makes Aurora a PvE trinket.

    Nothing is particularly hard if you divide it into small jobs. Henry Ford

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    I believe that currently fractal CM incentives probably fulfill that requirement. Raid CMs do not (there's no reason whatsoever to repeat them), but that seems to be by design.

    Last I remember they are working on a way to make Raid CMs repeatable, who knows what they'll come up with.

    Last i remember they said they didn't want to do that, because they believed it would splinter the already small raid community. I might be remembering it wrong, though.

    Due to that, i believe CMs should not be required for it. At best they should be able to hasten the process by allowing the player to get more relics, pristines and matrices.

    T1 Fractals are parts of Legendary Precursors, T2/T3 fractals are used for Ad Infinitum (with the exception of the requirement to beat level 95 once, which is part of T4)
    A new reward, like a legendary armor, should have collections that start at least on T3 and go to T4 later on. Even if CMs aren't required, those other collections have more strict requirements (time limits, beat with healing reduction) so it stands to reason that a Legendary Armor would have similar increased requirements (not CM difficulty).

    Agreed.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

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