Scourge and Spellbreaker are oppressive

When in the hands of a bad player, mentioned specs simply carries them to higher rating than they should have and in legend queues I have people with 0 rotational knowledge or mechanical skill who just spam stuff and get rewarded for it.When in the hands of a good player, they make these players near undefeated by anything else. Good spellbreakers can survive 1v3s way too often. Good scourges wipe teams in seconds.Sad we gonna have to spend the rest of the season like this because we never have balance patches often enough.

+1ing this

While very strong, I wouldn't say oppressive. Scourge needs support, alone it's just /lold by any range. Spellbreaker people are still fresh to the xpac and still just mashing spells into Counter. Yeah the skill cap is low, but you're always going to have strong builds with low skill cap inflating your rating, ie DH before the string of nerfs. Maybe some stuff needs toning down, but things like not playing around full counter are a player problem - and yes there are ways to play around it with low cd skills/dodges etc. SB has made my warrior actually a bit fun to play again.

I like running the Strength, Disciple, Spellbreaker Might Makes Right Variant, and can handle every condi spec but Scourge (since Scourge can Condi bomb every single condition in the game on you instantly), and, because of that, I know I'm going to have to use Defense instead of Strength and run Revenge Counter over Magebane Tether.

I agree from a Weavers perspective, spellbreaker is oppressive!

spellbreaker and scourge are not only oppressive in terms of power, but also because some players feel forced to play them to gain rank. this results in less play for the other classes if you're desperate to gain ranked points and is the reason why you barely see weaver, mirage and to some lesser extent holosmith.

@Despond.2174 said:While very strong, I wouldn't say oppressive. Scourge needs support, alone it's just /lold by any range. Spellbreaker people are still fresh to the xpac and still just mashing spells into Counter. Yeah the skill cap is low, but you're always going to have strong builds with low skill cap inflating your rating, ie DH before the string of nerfs. Maybe some stuff needs toning down, but things like not playing around full counter are a player problem - and yes there are ways to play around it with low cd skills/dodges etc. SB has made my warrior actually a bit fun to play again.

Only it directly counters Rangers and Mesmers class mechanics. There is no way for your clones not to proc it and having them getting one-shot by a 7 second cooldown skill. There is some counter play for Ranger of calling your pet back. That renders any aoe-based pet useless though.

A single scourge alone is fine and has many weaknesses. 2 of them is horrible though. 3 of them...well...might as well /dance.

@Cosbuster.4379 said:A single scourge alone is fine and has many weaknesses. 2 of them is horrible though. 3 of them...well...might as well /dance.

Seems to me that the team with the most scourges wins more than half the time.

Granted, I had one match where our team had two scourges and theirs had none, on Khylo and we managed to lose (necros didn't like to stay on point).

@Despond.2174 said:Yeah the skill cap is low, but you're always going to have strong builds with low skill cap inflating your rating, ie DH before the string of nerfs.

This doesn't h ave to be true. I don't know why so many GW2 players are content with having such low skill floor builds that are effective. While you can never get rid of this entirely, you can certainly do much better than GW2 does. You can have them be much less effective (seriously, such builds shouldn't be able to carry any player past silver1 at the most. Anything higher should come from player skill, not build strength), and you can have timely balance patches that fix the worst offenders within weeks instead of maybe slightly touching them after months of no changes.

@OriOri.8724 said:

@Despond.2174 said:Yeah the skill cap is low, but you're always going to have strong builds with low skill cap inflating your rating, ie DH before the string of nerfs.

Honestly, of all the MMOs I've played GW2 has the one of the highest learning curves. You might just be too experienced to see it. Large damage numbers and a lot of active damage mitigation makes the skill floor a lot higher than most MMOs I've played.

And really, I don't think people are climbing quite as dramatically as its being made out to be. Yeah, a normally gold player might reach plat. But you aren't getting bronze players breaking into plat because of how good the build is. Those players still get out rotated and facetank damage like they always did.

I am curious, what changes were made from the demo weekend to release? I remember SB being decent but not quite to this degree (many complained that SB wouldn't even be worth using in pvp). And I know I would have noticed Scourge the way these games have gone.

@BeLZedaR.4790 said:When in the hands of a bad player, mentioned specs simply carries them to higher rating than they should have and in legend queues I have people with 0 rotational knowledge or mechanical skill who just spam stuff and get rewarded for it.When in the hands of a good player, they make these players near undefeated by anything else. Good spellbreakers can survive 1v3s way too often. Good scourges wipe teams in seconds.Sad we gonna have to spend the rest of the season like this because we never have balance patches often enough.

What is sad, people who play with tanky gears/builds and complain that other classes are getting away. OMEGALUL

@Loop.8106 said:

@Despond.2174 said:While very strong, I wouldn't say oppressive. Scourge needs support, alone it's just /lold by any range. Spellbreaker people are still fresh to the xpac and still just mashing spells into Counter. Yeah the skill cap is low, but you're always going to have strong builds with low skill cap inflating your rating, ie DH before the string of nerfs. Maybe some stuff needs toning down, but things like not playing around full counter are a player problem - and yes there are ways to play around it with low cd skills/dodges etc. SB has made my warrior actually a bit fun to play again.

I was just thinking about how spellbreakers give warriors a counter to mesmers. Mesmers have long countered warriors, so I suppose it's good that they have an option that turns that around. Actually, I like the idea of each class having one elite spec that counters their traditional threats.

@"Omcrazy.4756" said:Honestly, of all the MMOs I've played GW2 has the one of the highest learning curves. You might just be too experienced to see it. Large damage numbers and a lot of active damage mitigation makes the skill floor a lot higher than most MMOs I've played.

And really, I don't think people are climbing quite as dramatically as its being made out to be. Yeah, a normally gold player might reach plat. But you aren't getting bronze players breaking into plat because of how good the build is. Those players still get out rotated and facetank damage like they always did.

This cannot be emphasized enough. I don't understand this forums obsession with "skill requirement." The easiest builds in GW2 are still harder to play optimally than the hardest of champions in mobas and other rpgs.

When one of the easiest builds is removing a lot of build variety from the entire game, is a problem that should be fixed as soon as possible (i'm looking at you scourge)

@ToPNoP.2493 said:

@BeLZedaR.4790 said:When in the hands of a bad player, mentioned specs simply carries them to higher rating than they should have and in legend queues I have people with 0 rotational knowledge or mechanical skill who just spam stuff and get rewarded for it.When in the hands of a good player, they make these players near undefeated by anything else. Good spellbreakers can survive 1v3s way too often. Good scourges wipe teams in seconds.Sad we gonna have to spend the rest of the season like this because we never have balance patches often enough.

I play full glass rev what u talking about?

To be honest spellbreaker in this moment is one of the most balanced specs.Warrior in every single game is the starter beginner class pretty straightforward to play and not that risky, but it is not that simple to master.

A noob who tries spellbreaker can just rekt other noobs only, it can't handle 3 people like a druid come on, you leave in a different universe or in low bronze leagues.

Certainly has good sustain to hold 2 people for a while but at some point he has to leave, druid can hold 2 people forever if he is good enough. So please now don't talk as spellbreakers as bunkers because this explain why you have problem with them, l2p issue.

The sb prenerf was capable of this thing but not the actual one, scourge on the other hand even in the hands of a bad player paired with a firebrand was able to get you up to plat 3 no problem.

And warrior skills are so easy to dodge and counter, if you get stunned and have zero stunbreaks that's your problem, not sb fault, this is what warrior always did, stun and get the most damage immediately after since the beginning of the game and how? Only at melee range wow, you can actually kite, use cripples, wow... didn't know this?

@whoknocks.4935 said:To be honest spellbreaker in this moment is one of the most balanced specs.Warrior in every single game is the starter beginner class pretty straightforward to play and not that risky, but it is not that simple to master.

A noob who tries spellbreaker can just rekt other noobs only, it can't handle 3 people like a druid come on, you leave in a different universe or in low bronze leagues.

Certainly has good sustain to hold 2 people for a while but at some point he has to leave, druid can hold 2 people forever if he is good enough. So please now don't talk as spellbreakers as bunkers because this explain why you have problem with them, l2p issue.

The sb prenerf was capable of this thing but not the actual one, scourge on the other hand even in the hands of a bad player paired with a firebrand was able to get you up to plat 3 no problem.

And warrior skills are so easy to dodge and counter, if you get stunned and have zero stunbreaks that's your problem, not sb fault, this is what warrior always did, stun and get the most damage immediately after since the beginning of the game and how? Only at melee range wow, you can actually kite, use cripples, wow... didn't know this?

Sb is only ‘balanced’ because in this game it means OP as fuck but not god tier.But this thread is from pof launch idk who bumped it.

@BeLZedaR.4790 said:

@whoknocks.4935 said:To be honest spellbreaker in this moment is one of the most balanced specs.Warrior in every single game is the starter beginner class pretty straightforward to play and not that risky, but it is not that simple to master.

A noob who tries spellbreaker can just rekt other noobs only, it can't handle 3 people like a druid come on, you leave in a different universe or in low bronze leagues.

Certainly has good sustain to hold 2 people for a while but at some point he has to leave, druid can hold 2 people forever if he is good enough. So please now don't talk as spellbreakers as bunkers because this explain why you have problem with them, l2p issue.

The sb prenerf was capable of this thing but not the actual one, scourge on the other hand even in the hands of a bad player paired with a firebrand was able to get you up to plat 3 no problem.

And warrior skills are so easy to dodge and counter, if you get stunned and have zero stunbreaks that's your problem, not sb fault, this is what warrior always did, stun and get the most damage immediately after since the beginning of the game and how?

Only at melee range wow

, you can actually kite, use cripples, wow... didn't know this?

My bad i didnt see the bump ?

I don't have any problems fighting Spellbreaker but Scourge is oppressive AF.

@Velimere.7685 said:I don't have any problems fighting Spellbreaker but Scourge is oppressive AF.

Both are kinda ok now if one is stronger id argue its spellbreaker.

Depends on what class you use, but I hope most agree that scourges Aoe is beyond tolerance...you cant even dodge roll the full length of it and not to mention that the sand can be cast at range

Sp are hard due the constant stun and slow but there are small windows of opportunity to inflect damage...very tiny window...but its there...

When they fix Druid first, then the attention can be turn on the rest. Complaining about SB survival? Lol, what can be said about Druid then? At least SB can't disengage with stealth over and over AND be tanky at the same time.

@Crinn.7864 said:

@Omcrazy.4756 said:The easiest builds in GW2 are still harder to play optimally than the hardest of champions in mobas and other rpgs.

Strange, I play ESO, and I'd say in terms of playing builds that game has a much higher skill cap than GW2, having to actually aim and the amount of ani cancelling that you have to do to be good in that game is just different level from tab targeted and mostly slower paced combat you have in GW2.

The only thing I find higher skill capped about GW2 is the conquest mode which adds a level of rotations, awareness, teamwork, etc which is a level above what you find in most PvP modes in most MMORPGs, which is of course where MOBAs like DOTA 2 shine and put GW2 to shame.

@"whoknocks.4935" said:To be honest spellbreaker in this moment is one of the most balanced specs.Warrior in every single game is the starter beginner class pretty straightforward to play and not that risky, but it is not that simple to master.

A noob who tries spellbreaker can just rekt other noobs only, it can't handle 3 people like a druid come on, you leave in a different universe or in low bronze leagues.

Certainly has good sustain to hold 2 people for a while but at some point he has to leave, druid can hold 2 people forever if he is good enough. So please now don't talk as spellbreakers as bunkers because this explain why you have problem with them, l2p issue.

The sb prenerf was capable of this thing but not the actual one, scourge on the other hand even in the hands of a bad player paired with a firebrand was able to get you up to plat 3 no problem.

And warrior skills are so easy to dodge and counter, if you get stunned and have zero stunbreaks that's your problem, not sb fault, this is what warrior always did, stun and get the most damage immediately after since the beginning of the game and how? Only at melee range wow, you can actually kite, use cripples, wow... didn't know this?

As a warrior main myself,(played warrior only till Cele Meta, at that time Anet went full retard with warrior, to me hes OP since that time, and never dropped from OP status), i disagree...Spellbreaker/Warrior are far away from being anywhere close to something that might say "balanced"...any spec that can hold without much trouble 2 players and still do more then enough damage to actually be a threat to this players is NOT balanced...Warrior used to be balanced around the idea that you had no boons and little to no blocks and evades and damage reduction, so you had Highest HP pool and armor to compensate...but this is not true anymore, numerous cooldown reductions that we had patch after patch and buff to several skills made Warrior into this monster that we have right now....lol someone remenber that Warrior weakness used to be condi? "How to kill a War?", "Just put some poison on him and make his Healing Signet useless" lol sorry, saying that counters to warrios are kite...good luck trying to kite one of the professions with the highest mobility in game, i guess with you are a thief that can work lol...