DPS How-to?

As I muddle along in PvE with my ranger, I watch in a mixture of frustration and disbelief as I see other players slice regular mobs in half and melt vets in 5 seconds. Much of the time I don't even know what class they are, they come and go so fast. In PoF today I saw a holosmith do this for sure (no mistaking that holograph look), but I've seen players in any weight of armor cutting a swath across the jungle, the desert, and the world in general.

My question is, How do they do it?

Yeah I know about metabattle and qtfy. And I watched that vid of a soulbeast doing 26k dps. I went to the raid lobby training area and tried the provided build. My ranger's gear is comparable to that of the character in the vid, except I have ranger runes instead of scholar (couldn't afford them at the time), but I couldn't even get my dps to 11k, even with all the buffs that the training area had to offer. Without those buffs, I went down to 7.5k.

What am I doing wrong?

I guess what I'm saying is... HEEEEELLLLPPPP!

what stats do you have on your armor?

If your computer can handle it, try using some recording software (OBS Studio is great for this) and make a video of you vs the golem. People will easily be able to pick apart what you're doing wrong then.

@Sephylon.4938 said:what stats do you have on your armor?

Zerker. As I said, my gear is comparable to that in the video, except for the runes (ranger instead of scholar, but the 3% difference shouldn't account for a 250% difference in dps). Ascended armor and trinkets, Kudzu and Bolt/ascended axe, all zerker.

Are you using skills appropriately? With the kind of gear you have I can't imagine you're using things like serpent's strike over whirling defense, but it's worth asking the obvious.

@Fluffball.8307 said:Are you using skills appropriately? With the kind of gear you have I can't imagine you're using things like serpent's strike over whirling defense, but it's worth asking the obvious.

The guy doesn't give his rotation and I can't tell from the video exactly what's he doing. I try to hit Sic 'Em right before Whirling Defense, but Sic 'Em has a 20 sec cooldown and Whirling Defense has a 32 second cooldown, so it gets cock-eyed right from the start. Other than that, I'm really no good at trying to figure out what order to hit my skills after the opener.

Erm, the other way around, sorry. Sic' Em has a 32 sec cooldown, WD a 20 sec.

So, first and foremost, I'm assuming you're referring to

1. Beastmode (Tiger)
2. One Wolf Pack
3. Viper's Nest
4. "Sic 'Em!"
5. Barrage
6. Rapid Fire
7. Weapon Swap
8. Path of Scars
9. Whirling Defense
10. Worldly Impact
11. Path of Scars
12. Weapon Swap
13. Rapid Fire
14. Repeat from 3

can you show us your build?http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/

@Sephylon.4938 said:can you show us your build?http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/

I only copied the build in the vid, but sure. I do have different runes in my armor (I couldn't afford scholar runes when I made it), but I do get a 65% crit chance unbuffed and without Spotter (it irks me to give up Spotter).Build here

@Vethaera.6319 said:The guy doesn't give his rotation and I can't tell from the video exactly what's he doing.

Video guides can be fantastic for things like jumping puzzles or showing rather than telling about mechanics (especially with good use of pauses, slowdowns, annotations and such), but for basic class and rotation info, it really should always be written down.

Also, one thing to keep in mind about "meta" builds: they're designed with very specific group combinations in mind. That usually means no condition cleansing or stunbreak or other defensive stuff or even self-buffs because "the druid" or "the chrono" or "the PS" is expected to handle that. Which doesn't help you one bit when you're out soloing in the open world or grouping with a handful of random people. Rotations can also be thrown off by not having quickness and alacrity because you don't have a pocket chronomancer with you. Weapon sets may be all melee, while in "reality" it's often a very good idea to have ranged on swap. Builds that rely heavily on crits will hit 100% with all those "meta"-group buffs but be much less effective without them, which is why some people recommend Assassin over Berserker for such builds when solo. You may find it very hard to stay above 90% health for the damage increase from Scholar runes, so it could be a good idea to go for something different (and cheaper) if you don't really group up much.

Some people will tell you that none of this matters, that anyone who isn't a "filthy worthless braindead scrubnub carebear casual" can easily run the glassiest meta build and never even take damage nevermind die ... but that is flat-out wrong, and there's no shame about not being able to pull that off. Adapt advice and guides to what you need and ignore the people whose "advice" is more designed to stroke their own ego than to actually help you by meeting you where you are.

@Vethaera.6319 said:The guy doesn't give his rotation and I can't tell from the video exactly what's he doing.

I just want to kill stuff faster in PvE. I see people killing faster than I do -- a LOT faster than I do -- cutting down normal mobs in a couple of hits and melting vets in 5 seconds. THAT is what I want to be able to do. And I guess I got sidetracked by all the benchmark stuff, but I figure if I can do damage like that then I'll fly through open world.

But at this point, I don't even care which class it would take, I want to destroy the mobs faster than I do. I'd rather it be a class that can range attack, and I'd really like it to be my ranger/druid/soulbeast, but I'm not sure that's possible. I prefer being able to stand back and survey the field, to have a better view of the attacks coming so I can evade. I'm not completely allergic to melee; I just don't like it as much.

Please, help me to be able to do the kind of damage I see other people do in PvE. Melting a vet in 5-10 seconds would be the goal, I guess.

@Vethaera.6319 said:

@Azathoth.2698 said:Gotta Git Gud

NP m8, glad it helped

I just want to kill stuff faster in PvE. I see people killing faster than I do -- a LOT faster than I do -- cutting down normal mobs in a couple of hits and melting vets in 5 seconds. THAT is what I want to be able to do. And I guess I got sidetracked by all the benchmark stuff, but I figure if I can do damage like that then I'll fly through open world.

Take quickdraw, open with (if needed SotP), your pet special attack, rapid fire, barrage, rapid fire, swap to s/a and use the two axe skills. And then just repeat that only quickdrawing barrage. In your gear that will tear up most mobs pretty effortlessly. It won't literally be 5 seconds for PoF tougher mobs, but it will be very fast.

@Fluffball.8307 said:

I just want to kill stuff faster in PvE. I

see

people killing faster than I do -- a LOT faster than I do -- cutting down normal mobs in a couple of hits and melting vets in 5 seconds. THAT is what I want to be able to do. And I guess I got sidetracked by all the benchmark stuff, but I figure if I can do damage like that then I'll fly through open world.

Thank you, I will try that.

So in the spirit of experimentation, I used my Radiance/Virtues DH to make some tests. The build is here. My DH's build is almost identical to that except he doesn't have infusions in his gear, which makes a difference of 80 power (the other 10 is tied up in the swapped-out weapons -- if that counts, please enlighten me, but 10 power isn't going to make a noticeable difference). I've read somewhere that the infusions have a pretty low percentage effect on outgoing damage, like 3%.

Whatever the default hitbox size is, I ran him on the 4 mil golem with no consumables or buffs, using Qtfy's rotation, and got 7.8k dps.Then I used the recommended consumables and got 8.5k dps.Then I told the machine to give him All The Buffs and got17.6k dps.Those buffs make one heck of a lot of difference. He was like a 33 record being played at 78.

I would love to know how Qtfy got a 36k benchmark for that build. Lack of infusions does NOT account for that big a difference in dps.

Regardless, even using optimal consumables, the DH did maybe 15% more damage than the ranger/druid/soulbeast, which isn't enough to cut a swath through tissue paper, much less a veteran.

Infusions are about 2% in total. Also, please note that the 36k DH benchmark is done on a big hitbox - default is small and will result in ~2-3k less. If you have all the relevant boons and buffs (they're huge, something like a 200% dps increase) and still don't get to the qT value, it's the rotation. Practice it and you will get closer to the benchmark. Getting to 90% is doable without having to practice for weeks.

A non raid group with mesmers and what not, for a ranger I would guess your DP is more like 15k or less. If you SotP and pre-buff with WhaO and cat and etc. and go totally nuts, you'lll auto attack with sword for like 4k. You need other buffs to get past that. Ranger sword auto attack is very decent so.... I mean don't kill yourself over it. Engis can stack a lot of damage all at once and it might be fun for you to play one.

i couldn't have said it better than Chadramar. definitely a kudos there =]

i used to play condi ranger and he melts everything in less than 5s. cuz burning condi is a bit op. any class that has access to burning has their condi spec in a high dps spot.

i'm not a big fan of meta myself but it's a good guide line for players who have no idea what build should they run or what to do. then the meta is there to give you a kick start.for open world, you need some survivability and even toughness if it makes you feel a bit tougher and die less. people have different opinions and would tell you differently. but just pick a profession that you like using and keep practicing.i'd suggest install a dps meter so you can keep track of your progress wherever you are. i could still remember the first day i installed my dps meter and started to track how am i doing. seeing the low numbers compared to others was very heart broken. like you're trying but it's not good enough. it's not because you don't practice a lot, but you know something gotta change. you need a better rotation to make use of the cooldowns, change utility skills maybe, change gears. etc.

if you notice qTfy videos, they're using realistic buffs, aka whatever professions and buffs that would be in a real raid scenario are added, and not all buffs. so if they use all buffs, their dps would be much higher than the benchmark. they're the best at what they do, even take advantage of delay cast time, stow weapon, something like that into their rotation. so our numbers could never compare to that. you can get as close as you can with a lot of practice though. by practice i mean not pressing anything on and off cds, but be able to remember specific skills cd time, and how long the weapon swap is, so you can intergrate them fluently into your rotation. once you swap a weapon, you don't end up doing nothing and wait for something to be off cd, that's a dps loss. the way dps works is that you gotta keep attacking in order for the damage per second to go up or keep up where it is. if you take a few secs doing nothing, your damage goes down, so is the dps. infusion is only a few % dps increase, it's not that big of a deal.

i think you need to stop comparing yourself with others too ;x take into account that when you practice with a golem, it doesn't hit you back, and it's standing right next to you, so all your attacks land. in a real scenario, mobs just run around and/or you run from them, some of your attacks maybe out of range, and/or not hit them right in the center of the AoE, so the damage dealt is even less than with the practice golem. it's not the class but it's how you play it. like i said i'm not a big fan of meta cuz some builds aren't my playstyle. you always do better playing something you like and how you like it.

mobs are getting pretty tanky these days so condis melt them faster than power. even if you have to run around in circle to get away from them, your condi damage should still tick and deal decent damage. if you still practicing and you're not able to melt stuff as fast as you'd like, switching to condi may help a bit. as you can see all the conditions that are on your target, you'll be able to track better.

Having run Holosmith, Necro (Reaper and Scourge), and Firebrand so far in the opening parts of the game, I can attest that Condi is no joke right now. It might be worth running Axe/Torch and Shortbow with a condition-oriented helper pet if you want to kill both swiftly and safely. It's a combo I know works with Druid, and am reasonably sure can be only improved upon with SB and the new pets in the expac.

I freely admit I lack the skill level for a lot of the ultra meta builds with tight rotations, though, so typically I rely on something a bit more simple and forgiving.

@CptAurellian.9537 said:Infusions are about 2% in total. Also, please note that the 36k DH benchmark is done on a big hitbox - default is small and will result in ~2-3k less. If you have all the relevant boons and buffs (they're huge, something like a 200% dps increase) and still don't get to the qT value, it's the rotation. Practice it and you will get closer to the benchmark. Getting to 90% is doable without having to practice for weeks.

blink blink

Doing the rotation perfectly adds 20k dps?

Srsly?

@Mercurias.1826 said:Having run Holosmith, Necro (Reaper and Scourge), and Firebrand so far in the opening parts of the game, I can attest that Condi is no joke right now. It might be worth running Axe/Torch and Shortbow with a condition-oriented helper pet if you want to kill both swiftly and safely. It's a combo I know works with Druid, and am reasonably sure can be only improved upon with SB and the new pets in the expac.

I freely admit I lack the skill level for a lot of the ultra meta builds with tight rotations, though, so typically I rely on something a bit more simple and forgiving.

Please link your build?

@Vethaera.6319 said:

@CptAurellian.9537 said:Infusions are about 2% in total. Also, please note that the 36k DH benchmark is done on a big hitbox - default is small and will result in ~2-3k less. If you have all the relevant boons and buffs (they're huge, something like a 200% dps increase) and still don't get to the qT value, it's the rotation. Practice it and you will get closer to the benchmark. Getting to 90% is doable without having to practice for weeks.

Your main problem is that you run power. Atm power on either core ranger, druid or souldbeast are kinda... bad dps-vise. Condi on all 3 on the other hand are quite strong (as in best dps done on power is 26k and on condi its 40k).

I normally run the normal dps build also in open world. And if I need some extra survivability then I swap a few skill or the pet:http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQNAofVjUqQNL2tCurAVLWMEMmAworBkXd7uj3mOQwqqViUHD-jBiHQBaUJYteCA0T9ngsPABV+BgTBA50H4sFGIFwiKrA-e

Swap pet to Fern Hound (for the extra 4k heal on F3). Or flome trap for Dolyak stance. Or take axe in main hand swap over dagger to be even more range.

With this I have not meet anyone that was not able to get 25k+ dps on the golem first time testing it out. And naturally the more you play it, the better you get. That said, golem dps is not open world dps. And the effect of boon are huge, so dropping normal dps food for Fried Golden Dumpling or similar food will generally be a net gain (that said I rarely use food in open world, I forget to)