Ranger/Souldbeast Vs Conditions

So, i am new to Ranger and Soulbeast, as a WvW player and a roamer at that, i encounter condition builds a LOT and i just cant do anything about them at the moment. I just melt. Remove the first bomb and seconds later another 5+ conditions on me. How do you guys handle condition builds?

Currently i have:Photosynthesize: Removes 2 Conditions. The Cast time is too much to be able to actively use it to remove conditions.Spiritual Reprieve: 3 seconds Resistance. Again the cast time makes it near impossible to get it off without easily being interrupted.Bear Stance: Can remove 8 conditions. No idea what it targets to remove first. Decent, at best but never going to save you.Signet of Renewal: transfer 12 condis. HUGE cool down just ruins it.

What do you guys run to stand a chance against mindless condition bombing. Of course for most classes (except Warrior) Application of conditions FAR exceeds your removal potential but i just cant figure out how to even stand a chance, i just melt too fast :/

Wilderness knowledge + Evasive purity. Don't use bear as it has too high CD, use troll unguent if you know how to kite or otherwise We Heal as One + soften the fall. Plus everything you already pointed out.

SoR is bugged, avoid it.

@anduriell.6280 said:Wilderness knowledge + Evasive purity. Don't use bear as it has too high CD, use troll unguent if you know how to kite or otherwise We Heal as One + soften the fall. Plus everything you already pointed out.

SoR is bugged, avoid it.

Is wilderness Knowledge worth taking over the (admittedly short) reduction that Emphatic Bond has? As i currently dont use any Survival skills, so it would it be worth it for just the heal? if i did take Troll Urgent. I assume with Troll Urgent its only removing 2 conditions at the start? Is that really that much better than Bear which heals reasonably well and can remove 8 conditions. Same cast time and only 5second longer cool down (with Urgent being traited) GW2Skills is bugged for Emphatic Bond as its only 20% to pet, rather than the 50% it says. Wish it was 50% Lol.

How is SoR bugged? You mean for the Beastmode version not giving you resistance? As i dont use it unless i have the pet active, because losing all conditions is better than boon that cant be corrupted with easy auto attacks or stolen

post you full build, looks like you are going to have to give something up to get better condi removal just dont know what. also range is you best defence against condi bombs

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 , In beastmode SoR doesn't work at all ATM. You only get the stun break, not the condi removal and not the resistance.

The way I handle condis is I run bearstance and a brown bear, but then again I've been notorious for taking way less condi removal than everyone else on this forum seems to...

That being said, if you take soften the fall and wilderness survival every time you heal you're going to remove an extra 2 condis, if you also have troll unguents you'd be removing 4 condis on heal.

I think the best advise I could give would be to literally just try to use evade frames against the big condi bombs, and save your bear stance for when you're getting low on health AND are loaded up with condis because that monsterous heal will easily pull you from the grave back to full health while purging your condis.

But as everyone else has said it'd be way more helpful to have your build so we can help you alter your build for better condi resistance without completely destroying your build.

Also, id recommend avoiding empathetic bond unless you intend on having vitality as a stat, and/or are running melandru runes because whenever your pet gets a condi you're getting a portion of that duration too, and if it's sPvP that means if they hit your pet with a condi you're getting 80% of the duration, no way of evading it. On the plus side though, if you AND your pet get hit by the same condi bomb skill you won't double dip, so I guess there's that?

@Eggyokeo.9705 said:post you full build, looks like you are going to have to give something up to get better condi removal just dont know what. also range is you best defence against condi bombs

@LughLongArm.5460 said:@ArmageddonAsh.6430 , In beastmode SoR doesn't work at all ATM. You only get the stun break, not the condi removal and not the resistance.

Yeah that is kind of annoying but i would rather the full condi clear to 3 seconds of resistance that can easily be corrupted/removed any dya, though would be nice if they fixed it and maybe buffed its for when you are in Beastmode, maybe something like Gian 3 seconds resistance for each condi you have?

@Durzlla.6295 said:The way I handle condis is I run bearstance and a brown bear, but then again I've been notorious for taking way less condi removal than everyone else on this forum seems to...

That being said, if you take soften the fall and wilderness survival every time you heal you're going to remove an extra 2 condis, if you also have troll unguents you'd be removing 4 condis on heal.

I think the best advise I could give would be to literally just try to use evade frames against the big condi bombs, and save your bear stance for when you're getting low on health AND are loaded up with condis because that monsterous heal will easily pull you from the grave back to full health while purging your condis.

But as everyone else has said it'd be way more helpful to have your build so we can help you alter your build for better condi resistance without completely destroying your build.

Also, id recommend avoiding empathetic bond unless you intend on having vitality as a stat, and/or are running melandru runes because whenever your pet gets a condi you're getting a portion of that duration too, and if it's sPvP that means if they hit your pet with a condi you're getting 80% of the duration, no way of evading it. On the plus side though, if you AND your pet get hit by the same condi bomb skill you won't double dip, so I guess there's that?

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNEQNAoYTnE8C9rgN8Cm8Cs8iFKBLP3GcPuP/gZVHrJAUqSAncePiD-jVDBQB+QlAPqUgGaB2h6KgRJRK0EQhTAQh0BovDBAHVmBgnAwbUh4f7PAA-w

This is my build, something i put together myself. Didn't really think too much about it. It does well in groups. Its just solo Vs Condi builds that i just melt. I do okay against others losing some, winning some but making quite a few mistakes that im putting down to Razer new Naga mouse isnt as good as the one i had and playing new class. I havent put the food simply because i dont use any at the moment, i was thinking about going wioth the 20% duration decrease but with people being able to get such high condition duration, 20% reduction of those that have like 70%+ duration increase is just so minor

Is Troll Urgent (4 condis traited) better than Bear Stance which can remove like double that?

Wow, i had no idea it did that! It surely makes that trait more danger than it is worth, especially when facing AoE condis as wouldn't you be taking double the condition? If you and your pet get hit wouldnt you then take your condition and 80% of the pets one? So you wont take double the condition if its an AoE? What if you get hit by one AoE and the pet by a different one that you didnt get hit by?

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

@Durzlla.6295 said:The way I handle condis is I run bearstance and a brown bear, but then again I've been notorious for taking way less condi removal than everyone else on this forum seems to...

That being said, if you take soften the fall and wilderness survival every time you heal you're going to remove an extra 2 condis, if you also have troll unguents you'd be removing 4 condis on heal.

I think the best advise I could give would be to literally just try to use evade frames against the big condi bombs, and save your bear stance for when you're getting low on health AND are loaded up with condis because that monsterous heal will easily pull you from the grave back to full health while purging your condis.

But as everyone else has said it'd be way more helpful to have your build so we can help you alter your build for better condi resistance without completely destroying your build.

Also, id recommend avoiding empathetic bond unless you intend on having vitality as a stat, and/or are running melandru runes because whenever your pet gets a condi you're getting a portion of that duration too, and if it's sPvP that means if they hit your pet with a condi you're getting 80% of the duration, no way of evading it. On the plus side though, if you AND your pet get hit by the same condi bomb skill you won't double dip, so I guess there's that?

Oooh you're in WvW, I believe there it's a 50-50 split for you and your pet, so you'd only be getting 50% of the condi duration applied to you/your pet, I had assumed this was in sPvP where it's an 80-20 ratio (80% you 20% pet). The way it works is if you or your pet get hit by a single attack that applies condis then you share the condi duration I.E. if you get hit with 10s of cripple you and your pet will get 5s of cripple, and vice versa. However, if you and your pet both get hit by the SAME attack that applies 10s of cripple you both would only get 5s of cripple one time. However, if you're standing in one fire field and your pet is standing in a different fire field you'll both be getting a % of the burning those fire fields are causing. So if you're running a melee centric build where you and your pet will be side by side getting hit by everything together empathetic bond is pretty good, if you and your pet are getting hit by different effects it's horrible.

I personally think Bearstance is our best heal, I love that thing it's a huge heal and a huge condi purge and I would not trade it for a traited troll unguent at all. However, I would consider taking both Soften the Fall and Wilderness Knowledge to add an additional 2 condi cleanse on top of bear stance if for whatever reason I was having a lot of fights where I'm just getting dunked in condis.

One thing I'd definitely do for your build is drop the shout trait and pick a different one since you're running no shouts, and I'd probably make the gear set up less sporadic, since it appears to be all over the place. I'd definitely drop the shaman gear and get something a little bit more aggressive.

Also, is there a specific condi build that you're having trouble with? Because if it's necros, their whole thing is destroying other condi builds which kinda puts you at an inherent disadvantage.

@Durzlla.6295 said:Oooh you're in WvW, I believe there it's a 50-50 split for you and your pet, so you'd only be getting 50% of the condi duration applied to you/your pet, I had assumed this was in sPvP where it's an 80-20 ratio (80% you 20% pet). The way it works is if you or your pet get hit by a single attack that applies condis then you share the condi duration I.E. if you get hit with 10s of cripple you and your pet will get 5s of cripple, and vice versa. However, if you and your pet both get hit by the SAME attack that applies 10s of cripple you both would only get 5s of cripple one time. However, if you're standing in one fire field and your pet is standing in a different fire field you'll both be getting a % of the burning those fire fields are causing. So if you're running a melee centric build where you and your pet will be side by side getting hit by everything together empathetic bond is pretty good, if you and your pet are getting hit by different effects it's horrible.

I personally think Bearstance is our best heal, I love that thing it's a huge heal and a huge condi purge and I would not trade it for a traited troll unguent at all. However, I would consider taking both Soften the Fall and Wilderness Knowledge to add an additional 2 condi cleanse on top of bear stance if for whatever reason I was having a lot of fights where I'm just getting dunked in condis.

One thing I'd definitely do for your build is drop the shout trait and pick a different one since you're running no shouts, and I'd probably make the gear set up less sporadic, since it appears to be all over the place. I'd definitely drop the shaman gear and get something a little bit more aggressive.

Also, is there a specific condi build that you're having trouble with? Because if it's necros, their whole thing is destroying other condi builds which kinda puts you at an inherent disadvantage.

You would think that but WvW follows PvP so its 80/20 rather than the PvE side where its 50/50. So it is the same as sPvP. I had no idea it went both ways. Yeah that could be killer :/

Yeah i do think Bear Stance is great, i do wonder what conditions it targets to remove first though, should be damaging ones first. Yeah i might do that, I will see how the Troll Urgent combo goes. I get 1.3k Heal ticks when im merged with my tree. Which isnt too bad.

That was actually a mistake, i dont take that trait, i take the middle one. Potent Ally, grants Might to each other when critting. I like the added Healing Power due to the Poison Trait and combined with the Tree Heal which can heal for like 6k+ on its own.

Theres a few, Daredevil Dodge build which just spams dodges and Death Blossom, so much evade and dodging that i cant hit them much at all and the sheer constant application of conditions i just cant do anything about. Scourges as well just melt with their condition spamming on top of more condition spamming on top of even more condition spamming.

If you take the grand master trait that makes survival skills cleanse 2 conditions (and provide fury) as well as the trait that makes you cast muddy terrain when using a healing skill, using troll unguent will cleanse 4 conditions, as muddy terrain is also a survival skill.

Troll unguent also has a very short cooldown and provides a substantial heal.

Personally, I feel it kinda sucks to be pigeon holed into essentially focusing an entire trait line on condi cleanse, but you gotta do what you gotta do.

I don't know how they could take a bad GM trait like Empathic Bond and make it so much worse. Before, you could possibly kill your profession mechanic off with it, but now your profession mechanic can kill you as well as dying itself. I'm reminded of that saying... In Soviet Russia, GM trait kill YOU

i agree for the most part with durzilla, in WS line grab "soften the fall" and "Wilderness knowledge" wilderness knowledge will also interact with pet swap zepher speed, so there is alot more condi removal right there. you could alos drop SoR for either QZ or protect me if you use protect me you could also grab second skin over predotors cunning for some condi "resistance" as well

@Vacant.4159 said:If you take the grand master trait that makes survival skills cleanse 2 conditions (and provide fury) as well as the trait that makes you cast muddy terrain when using a healing skill, using troll unguent will cleanse 4 conditions, as muddy terrain is also a survival skill.

Troll unguent also has a very short cooldown and provides a substantial heal.

Personally, I feel it kinda sucks to be pigeon holed into essentially focusing an entire trait line on condi cleanse, but you gotta do what you gotta do.

While traited and inside Beastmode with the Tree, Troll Urgent will cleanse 4 conditions and heal for like 9-10k , the problem is its over an 8 second duration and would it be better than Bear Stance which with the heal trait would remove 10 Conditions over 4 seconds and heal for like 6k base plus like 600ish for each condition it removes which removes 8 which is like another 4.5kish So like 11-12k healing over 4seconds but does have a 5second longer cool down.

Not sure if Troll Urgent is worth it, even when traited Vs Bear Stance :/

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:I don't know how they could take a bad GM trait like Empathic Bond and make it so much worse. Before, you could possibly kill your profession mechanic off with it, but now your profession mechanic can kill you as well as dying itself. I'm reminded of that saying... In Soviet Russia, GM trait kill YOU

yeah, now its been explained how did they ever decide to add this trait to the game, it makes no sense and actually punishes you for taking it. It wouldnt be so bad if it was 50/50 in WvW but 80/20 just ruins it, considering all the AoE spamming of conditions, corruption and such.

@Eggyokeo.9705 said:i agree for the most part with durzilla, in WS line grab "soften the fall" and "Wilderness knowledge" wilderness knowledge will also interact with pet swap zepher speed, so there is alot more condi removal right there. you could alos drop SoR for either QZ or protect me if you use protect me you could also grab second skin over predotors cunning for some condi "resistance" as well

Zephyr Speed? So the trait version is a Survival skill? As the trait doesnt say it is. Even though the actual skill is. Though it does say Cast "Lesser" Quickening Zephyr. So does that still count as a survival skill? Even though its bugged inside Beastmode, being able to remove 12 conditions is still too nice to drop it i think, i would still use it outside of Beastmode even if it worked inside because removing 12 conditions is MUCH better than 3 seconds of resistance.

Though Quickening Zephyr does sound nice, Stun break, Quickness, Superspeed and 2 condis removed - 40 seconds (traited) cool down is a little bit high to use as a stun break. Though i guess it could be used to run away with the Superspeed and such. protect Me does look good, if i dropped the "potent Ally" trait and picked up the Resounding Timbre trait, it would grant 10 seconds of Swiftness and Regen while also reducing the cool down to 24 seconds, so would be getting healed from the Regen and from the protection heal trait as well

Which one would you take?

lesser Quickining Zephyr is a survival skill yes, so on pet swap you'd cleanse 2 condis, gain quickness, fury, and superspeed (no stunbreak).

And keep in mind you run dolyak stance, so you would have two stunbreaks on your bar, and you could always use QZ more as an offensive stunbreak, which is what I do. IE: someone CCs you when you're about to go ham on them so you break the CC and finish going ham.

@Durzlla.6295 said:lesser Quickining Zephyr is a survival skill yes, so on pet swap you'd cleanse 2 condis, gain quickness, fury, and superspeed (no stunbreak).

And keep in mind you run dolyak stance, so you would have two stunbreaks on your bar, and you could always use QZ more as an offensive stunbreak, which is what I do. IE: someone CCs you when you're about to go ham on them so you break the CC and finish going ham.

Ah cool, the stun break would have been welcome though lolYou can never have enough stun breaks in this game when so many classes can use like 4 or, some times more constantly :/

So you are all talking about WvW... What about Soften the fall+Evasive Purity+Wilderness Knowledge and Troll's Ungüent WITH Rune of the Defender plus Remove condition on heal food? Five conditions that go byebye everytime you heal. People don't usually take Troll's Ungüent because it lacks upfront healing. With Runes of the Defender that is solved, 1k tick+4,5k+ tick when getting hit with that aegis procc on instantly solves that. Now you have sustain, upfront healing and condi cleansing without druid.

@Khenzy.9348 said:So you are all talking about WvW... What about Soften the fall+Evasive Purity+Wilderness Knowledge and Troll's Ungüent WITH Rune of the Defender plus Remove condition on heal food? Five conditions that go byebye everytime you heal. People don't usually take Troll's Ungüent because it lacks upfront healing. With Runes of the Defender that is solved, 1k tick+4,5k+ tick when getting hit with that aegis procc on instantly solves that. Now you have sustain, upfront healing and condi cleansing without druid.

Should you really need Traits, food and runesets so you dont melt to conditions? I personally dont think so. Not quite sure how rune of the defender is meant to help? Mostly as i have no blocks. So the 6/6 effect wouldnt be much use, I would assume that the 4/6 granting Aegis would proc the 6/6?

Any idea if the 6/6 is affected by the heal pets added 25% healing? Plus, you would have to remember not to use the heal on cool down (if you needed it) due to the Difference in the heal cool down and the Runeset cool down.

Rune of the Defender is pretty awesome with the GS. I think it would go pretty awesome with Bear Stance too for more up-front heal. Don't forget Lyssa Runes too, with WK and Entangle, you are losing 7 condis every 48s, converting 5 to boons.

Also... https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bowl_of_Spiced_Red_Lentil_Stew

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

@Khenzy.9348 said:So you are all talking about WvW... What about Soften the fall+Evasive Purity+Wilderness Knowledge and Troll's Ungüent WITH Rune of the Defender plus Remove condition on heal food? Five conditions that go byebye everytime you heal. People don't usually take Troll's Ungüent because it lacks upfront healing. With Runes of the Defender that is solved, 1k tick+4,5k+ tick when getting hit with that aegis procc on instantly solves that. Now you have sustain, upfront healing and condi cleansing without druid.

Rune of the Defender is one of the strongest sustain rune sets in the game, and very few fights last long enough for you to cast your heal a second time in the very same fight, it also has great sinergy with greatsword.

And yeah, Rangers have to devote a lot of resources to gain decent condi clear, it has always been the case, and now more than ever with how strong condi builds are.

@LughLongArm.5460 said:@ArmageddonAsh.6430 , In beastmode SoR doesn't work at all ATM. You only get the stun break, not the condi removal and not the resistance.

There is no condi removal with SoR. It transfers condis to your pet. Your pet is not existent in beastmode, so you can't transfer them to it. You are technically the pet so you transfer them to yourself, the only bug is not getting resistance.

It also doesn't transfer them if the pet is out of range.

@"Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582" said:Rune of the Defender is pretty awesome with the GS. I think it would go pretty awesome with Bear Stance too for more up-front heal. Don't forget Lyssa Runes too, with WK and Entangle, you are losing 7 condis every 48s, converting 5 to boons.

Also... https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bowl_of_Spiced_Red_Lentil_Stew

Is that because of the Counterattack ability? Even with the 30second cool down on the 6/6 Do you think it would be worth it for those that don't run the Greatsword?

@Khenzy.9348 said:Rune of the Defender is one of the strongest sustain rune sets in the game, and very few fights last long enough for you to cast your heal a second time in the very same fight, it also has great sinergy with greatsword.

And yeah, Rangers have to devote a lot of resources to gain decent condi clear, it has always been the case, and now more than ever with how strong condi builds are.

Yeah but with the fact that fights are very short, is it worth losing damage (i run Berserkers) to go with a Runeset that wouldnt help in terms of offense and would make it worse (due to the loss of Berserkers) Would Defenders be a good option to take?

Yeah i have noticed that, its the same for several classes and still isnt enough due to the sheer condition spamming in the game, unless you are a Warrior or maybe a Revenant conditions are so tough :/

@Miellyn.6847 said:There is no condi removal with SoR. It transfers condis to your pet. Your pet is not existent in beastmode, so you can't transfer them to it. You are technically the pet so you transfer them to yourself, the only bug is not getting resistance.

It also doesn't transfer them if the pet is out of range.

Yeah and that is what i mean, i wouldn't use it in Beastmode. Even if the resistance worked. I would rather use it outside of beastmode and get 12 conditions transferred.

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

@"Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582" said:Rune of the Defender is pretty awesome with the GS. I think it would go pretty awesome with Bear Stance too for more up-front heal. Don't forget Lyssa Runes too, with WK and Entangle, you are losing 7 condis every 48s, converting 5 to boons.

Also...

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bowl_of_Spiced_Red_Lentil_Stew

Yeah, pretty much, because you can block many attacks with Counterattack, and each block applies 2s of Regeneration. Plus you can trigger the heal bonus from 6/6. It should be almost as good with other weapon sets, you still get Aegis on heal, so that would be your block.

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:Yeah, pretty much, because you can block many attacks with Counterattack, and each block applies 2s of Regeneration. Plus you can trigger the heal bonus from 6/6. It should be almost as good with other weapon sets, you still get Aegis on heal, so that would be your block.

Would you say its worth the loss of 5% direct damage, 5% condition damage, 175 Condition damage and 100 Power to gain the Aegis and the heal every 30seconds? Especially if i dont run Greatsword.

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:Yeah, pretty much, because you can block many attacks with Counterattack, and each block applies 2s of Regeneration. Plus you can trigger the heal bonus from 6/6. It should be almost as good with other weapon sets, you still get Aegis on heal, so that would be your block.

I literally read zero of this thread but recognized the Rune of the defender benefits. Those things are off the charts powerful.

@Fluffball.8307 said:I literally read zero of this thread but recognized the Rune of the defender benefits. Those things are off the charts powerful.

Yeah for some, i am just wondering if i only have a Heal to proc the 4/6 and 6/6, while the heal is decent. I would guess the beastmode 25% healing increase would affect it? so that would be like 5k which is very nice, but one proc every 30seconds, if you are forced into healing, then i would have 60seconds wait between procs. Wondering if its worth losing 5% direct damage, 5% condition damage, 175 Condition damage and 100 Power for it.

Also, the thread started about trying to find away to counter condition builds. I just struggle, though i am new to the class.