(WVW) DH vs Core guard from perspective of roaming

Hi guards,So im looking to play my guard more (i didnt for ages now) and currently considering DH vs Core from perspective of roaming.For those that do that, u know as roamer u should be able to generally fight both condi and power builds, as well as to be able to escape bloblings.My exp for last few eves i did on DH is that, DH is quite good counter to spellbreaker and in some cases pew pew Soulbests, but kinda lack in fight where you have thieves and mirages.So i may be wrong , and i would like to see your exp with this.My main question would go with , who you find better for this roaming task, dh or core, build (if you wish to share ofc) and why.Also how you feel with classes you counter and what are your painful matchups.

Thanks and good day,

From my experience, Core Guard is harder to play, more risky, but can be more rewarding. DH is solid, not so hard to learn, but F3 can be countered by unblockables, and trap burst can be avoided / dodged by more skilled players.

Disengage is hard for both of them, depending on some animal you can blink to. Condis shouldn't be a problem, also power damage if it's blockable.

Lots of ppl seem to have adapted to DH mechanics. For me DH still works well in kite mode vs. Core Warrior / Spellbreaker and Reaper / Scourge, because they are forced to enter my traps. F1 spear with reveal also helps vs. Thief, and partially vs. Mirage. But its not the class an above-average player would go for to reach some above-avarage results, I guess.

Haven't seen a Core Guard for years, so you might have the surprises on your side ;)

Thanks for response. I must say i seen several really good core guards in wvw (bit salty but good) and i would like to revisit it . Im mostly wondering about runes and sigils , what would ppl advise. For the core one, maybe valkyrie gear wold be way to go ?Cheers :)

I do Valk armor with traveler's runes and a mix of Valk/Zerk/Cavalier trinkets to get my Crit chance to 30%. Radiance/Valor/Virtues. Use meditations, sword 2 and gs 4 then 2 to get plenty of fury and retaliation for 100% crit chance. Lots of burst, blinds, condi removal...it's def doable and pretty fun.

@Flintbrow.7985 said:I do Valk armor with traveler's runes and a mix of Valk/Zerk/Cavalier trinkets to get my Crit chance to 30%. Radiance/Valor/Virtues. Use meditations, sword 2 and gs 4 then 2 to get plenty of fury and retaliation for 100% crit chance. Lots of burst, blinds, condi removal...it's def doable and pretty fun.

Thanks for response. I did test with divinity + marauder gear that i had on DH but i will check idea you gave.

Yeah, you really need the plus 25% movement speed for roaming...it's pretty crucial. Have fun!

I went full valk + str runes , and its a lot fun. Really super vs mirages and sb, but rev and soulbeasts are issue. Still fun to play :)

Tried roaming as a core guard. The fact you have to be in melee range to do damage makes it... somewhat hard to actually roam. DH can weave back and forth between ranged and melee... I might try core roaming as scepter/shield... GS sword doesn't seem viable unless you're doing 1v1s

@"mrauls.6519" said:Tried roaming as a core guard. The fact you have to be in melee range to do damage makes it... somewhat hard to actually roam. DH can weave back and forth between ranged and melee... I might try core roaming as scepter/shield... GS sword doesn't seem viable unless you're doing 1v1s

I do like close combat, kiting and range is , well not something that is fun for me. I noticed one more thing and that is , weaver is quite strong counter to core , at least those skilled ones.So far im quite happy with it , so for those who enjoy close combat i recommend.

DH is superior for roaming due to damage modifiers (Pure of sight / big game hunter) + spear of justice (reveal + burn). Also hunter's ward is probably the most annoying thing to get caught in besides gravity well.

Resolve is a tradeoff however, you obtain a larger heal and leap but the cast time makes it interruptible.

@kiranslee.4829 said:Hi guards,So im looking to play my guard more (i didnt for ages now) and currently considering DH vs Core from perspective of roaming.For those that do that, u know as roamer u should be able to generally fight both condi and power builds, as well as to be able to escape bloblings.My exp for last few eves i did on DH is that, DH is quite good counter to spellbreaker and in some cases pew pew Soulbests, but kinda lack in fight where you have thieves and mirages.So i may be wrong , and i would like to see your exp with this.My main question would go with , who you find better for this roaming task, dh or core, build (if you wish to share ofc) and why.Also how you feel with classes you counter and what are your painful matchups.

Thanks and good day,

Ok, 1st up DH is not a counter to spellbreaker by any means. A well built spellbreaker softcounters DH and generally tend to do better vs. a DH the glassier the SB is since they have plenty of sustain/stunbreak/stability to never eat the ToF wombo combo over the course of a 2 minute fight, whereas DH doesn't have anything other than 2x f3 to really mitigate their offence. You maybe fought a spellbreaker who was face-rolling hard in which case you can drop them rather easily with either DH or core guard. A really smart spellbreaker running that tether will be a hell of a fight for anything on guardian too.

Based on your criteria, I would recommend DH. For pure 1v1s (even some 1vX), you can even run full melee DH, no traps without changing your armor/accessories from what you use for LB/trapper DH. It is essentially a core-guard build but while tethered to your opponent, your burst will actually be greater than that of core guard's burst with the advantage of much better mobility.

If you want a build that excels purely at 1v1 but is otherwise horrible at outrunning zerglings/gank squads or chasing down your opponent, look into styling a build after the Harrier FB, popular in pvp.

if we are talking about the typical DH build which is sword/shield + LB

imo in wvw it is an under performer. I feel like people know how to play against this class and really isn't difficult to figure out how to fight one.

It doesn't have a lot of in-combat mobility, burst is OK but not the best, can be unreliable. Sort of a slave to crits. It doesn't have a lot of favourable matchups. LB is a bit underwhelming as a weapon and could use a few QoL changes and buffs. It doesn't do well against classes that have good sustain/protection with decent damage. Which are classes like Weaver, Spellbreaker, Holosmith, Soulbeast. Condi Mirages are always gonna be condi mirages, Herald is slightly favoured vs a DH due to unblockables and better burst but you can still win. This really leaves Thieves and Necros as the two classes that a Guardian can beat more times than not. A burst reaper can be dangerous though, not so much a scourge.

DH just gets outshined and out-kitted by the current meta builds. As a roamer you can avoid zergs and do some outrunning, provided you have a target to sword #2 and judge's invervention to. #2 on virtues help as well. But obviously alot of classes can do it better. And obviously you don't have to use longbow with DH, there are many other weaponsets you can use that may suit you better each with their own strengths and weaknesses.

If you want to talk about core guardian. The most common build is probably hammer and maybe sword/focus. You will obviously have less mobility. IMO you are a bit less survivable as well. But you probably have more burst potential and if you go radiance you probably can be more flexible with your stats as well. In melee you will be fairly strong but can be more vulnerable to kiting. I think in a small group is where this build would shine better.

@Flintbrow.7985 said:Yeah, you really need the plus 25% movement speed for roaming...it's pretty crucial. Have fun!

the new Firework runes are much better now instead of traveler runes :) gives Power and enter combat boons :D ive been using it its great still think Durability runes may be better tho :o

Fireworks runes are easily best in slot now unless you can afford to dish out 20-30G on hour on Writs of Masterful Speed

@sinsrock.1702 said:

@Flintbrow.7985 said:Yeah, you really need the plus 25% movement speed for roaming...it's pretty crucial. Have fun!

Is everybody still all up on Durability runes? IMO if you're going to not use these new Firework runes, Defender runes are a bit better than Durability and actually shorten the gap between Shelter and Purification a bit. You get the same hp and toughness (which is the main reason DH would take Durability, so they don't have to take vitality on any of their gear), the boon duration doesn't do much for DH, and you have extra sustain on your blocks which is going to proc 5+ times per fight which is going to heal you a good 4k+ hp. This is more damage than the 3.5 seconds of protection or 1 second of resistance proc on Durability is going to save you from.

I personally use the fireworks rune too :) I have not used Dura yet tho, just know a lot of roamers that use DH from my server use it :) ill check out what defenders runes do tho! never heard of them :D P.S im new to WvW and never really Pved only Pvped XD

@Arcaedus.7290 said:

@sinsrock.1702 said:

@Flintbrow.7985 said:Yeah, you really need the plus 25% movement speed for roaming...it's pretty crucial. Have fun!

@sinsrock.1702 said:I personally use the fireworks rune too :) I have not used Dura yet tho, just know a lot of roamers that use DH from my server use it :) ill check out what defenders runes do tho! never heard of them :D P.S im new to WvW and never really Pved only Pvped XD

Went roaming with firework runes the other day. IMO, they're better than traveler's or pack runes in terms of stats/min-maxxing, and the 25% movement speed + 1/3 vigor uptime are much more useful than the 3 seconds of protection on durability runes. These runes also afford more build versatility imo - found it easy to run core guard, melee DH and LB trapper DH without changing many things about my build.

Imo core guard is dumb af and deals way way too much damage if you play the right build (radiance). But if the dh is patient enough and plays correctly, the core guard has no chance. Its a skill(dh) vs pure, dumb damage spam matchup(core)

Core has very straightforward and telegraphed damage, it doesn't have the gimmicks of DH. It sounds more like you're just angry that your gimmick build was outplayed recently by some of the most telegraphed damage in the game. The only way you miss Judges Mighty Blow is if the enemy comes from outside your view, well that's no different to the burst a variety of professions and specs can put out from getting the jump on an opponent.

If you want to whine about dumb damage spam that would be the current Holosmith in Holomode or SB sick em unblockable rapid fire out of stealth.

@BlueCar.1587 said:Imo core guard is dumb af and deals way way too much damage if you play the right build (radiance). But if the dh is patient enough and plays correctly, the core guard has no chance. Its a skill(dh) vs pure, dumb damage spam matchup(core)

Straight 1v1s DH has more winning ( I guess the better term to use is less losing) matchups.Even DH vs Core guard is a winning matchup for the DH. I would say the only matchup that is more favorable for core guards is vs spellbreakers.

In my dealings, I have found core guard having more sustain than DH but DH has the larger burst potential (not just one-hit combos). I personally play burn guard but have over the years made it a hybrid setup. This way I can capitalize on large groupings and actually find fighting 3-4 foes easier than fighting 1. With the added procs from traps and the ability to stack vulnerability quickly, the bursting potential simply can't be matched elsewhere. Spellbreaker is one of the biggest pain in my necks when roaming. I make video montages of game play for my own kicks. Here's a sample. Be forewarned, the play style can be addictive if you are an aggressive player.

Figrin <3, u f***r always make me laugh with your vids!I dont get, where you squeezed out that 200 more power and Condi i miss

On topic:Core is more straight forward damage, while DH <3 has some 'Ohshietgottagetouthere'-potential and it can be played in more risky situations than a core.I´d always give the DH a go before Core, but Core is also great fun.

@Nordic Natedog.4360 said:In my dealings, I have found core guard having more sustain than DH but DH has the larger burst potential (not just one-hit combos). I personally play burn guard but have over the years made it a hybrid setup. This way I can capitalize on large groupings and actually find fighting 3-4 foes easier than fighting 1. With the added procs from traps and the ability to stack vulnerability quickly, the bursting potential simply can't be matched elsewhere. Spellbreaker is one of the biggest pain in my necks when roaming. I make video montages of game play for my own kicks. Here's a sample. Be forewarned, the play style can be addictive if you are an aggressive player.

@Nordic Natedog.4360Lol love the vid! I would say needs more memes though :P

Also, what? I find what you said about core and DH guard to be the opposite. Meta DH has much smaller burst potential since it comes almost exclusively through the ToF wombo combo which takes time and relies on opponents not counterplaying properly whereas core guard has much less sustain and a slightly larger (but faster/easier to access) burst. Even if we discuss off-meta variants, DH still has better sustain in every build comparison I can think of and even some of its better burst potential is still not instant-cast and relies on tethering opponents with f1.

@Arcaedus.7290 said:

@Nordic Natedog.4360 said:In my dealings, I have found core guard having more sustain than DH but DH has the larger burst potential (not just one-hit combos). I personally play burn guard but have over the years made it a hybrid setup. This way I can capitalize on large groupings and actually find fighting 3-4 foes easier than fighting 1. With the added procs from traps and the ability to stack vulnerability quickly, the bursting potential simply can't be matched elsewhere. Spellbreaker is one of the biggest pain in my necks when roaming. I make video montages of game play for my own kicks. Here's a sample. Be forewarned, the play style can be addictive if you are an aggressive player.

ToF wombo combo is not the only bursts that DH has, it is just the most common to find people playing. To take the DH specialization, you have 1 less core trait line you can take and often that leaves out valor, honor, or even both. Which are the defensive based traits can be had for guardian. DH then can build from the skill set that core has by adding traps into it while adding either stacks of vulnerability to his foe (thanks to zealots aggression - dulled senses combination), turn their F2 into an offensive skill (soaring devastation), and/or add big game hunter which can absolutely destroy foes after its resent buff.

@Arcaedus.7290 said:

@Nordic Natedog.4360 said:In my dealings, I have found core guard having more sustain than DH but DH has the larger burst potential (not just one-hit combos). I personally play burn guard but have over the years made it a hybrid setup. This way I can capitalize on large groupings and actually find fighting 3-4 foes easier than fighting 1. With the added procs from traps and the ability to stack vulnerability quickly, the bursting potential simply can't be matched elsewhere. Spellbreaker is one of the biggest pain in my necks when roaming. I make video montages of game play for my own kicks. Here's a sample. Be forewarned, the play style can be addictive if you are an aggressive player.

Also, thanks for the praise. I do have other videos with more or less memes in them, including 2 kind of cheesy story type videos. Figrin's Bedtime Stories and Figrin Bomb the SFR Tactivator. They are all meant for fun and I'm not against showing times I completely screw up. Gives me a chance when re-watching to learn and others to learn from those mistakes. Another fun video is my Figrin Bomb presents PA 15 v 4+ guilds.