Revert Lead Attacks Changes

Changes read:

Additionally, we've toned down the initial burst of damage that the thief can apply by removing the ability to stack Lead Attacks when outside of combat. Lead Attacks: The duration of this trait's Lead Attacks stacking effect has been reduced from 15 seconds to 10 seconds. It now requires the player to be in combat in order to generate the stacking damage effect. Initiative skills that cause the player to enter combat will generate stacks of this trait.

Why would we want to reduce the initial burst of damage thieves do when that is their job? They already have low enough sustained damage and survivability. This change is actually so bad not only because its a pointless nerf, but it also promotes terrible gameplay. If I'm a thief in PvP (where I assume these changes are intended) I'm rotating between nodes using my initiative to close the gap. If I'm gaining no lead attacks during that time it diminishes the advantage of having speed. It is basically almost saying that I shouldn't use initiative until I get in combat.

So basically if I want to play rotationally I'll want to either steal instantly or be very predictable. Get in combat to stack my buff or begin fights very disadvantageously just to start gathering a buff. Either that or I play intelligently and suffer getting a huge damage nerf. This promotes Sword Dagger gameplay even more which is already the best thief build in the meta, and absolutely dumpsters dagger pistol gameplay which is more front loaded and required much more skill. Not only that but the reduced duration also makes it ramp down faster so you have to stay IN COMBAT longer, which thieves simply cant do because they lack survivability and sustain. So instead of the skillful in and out combat they are forced to stay in fights longer, but there have been no changes to help their ability to do that. ?????????

My suggestion is revert this change, or even reduce the duration of the buff but allow it to be stacked out of combat. I'd rather not be stuck on an even more braindead version of the sd build for another several months.

This balance patch was brazy

@"Vallun.2071" said:Changes read:

Additionally, we've toned down the initial burst of damage that the thief can apply by removing the ability to stack Lead Attacks when outside of combat. Lead Attacks: The duration of this trait's Lead Attacks stacking effect has been reduced from 15 seconds to 10 seconds. It now requires the player to be in combat in order to generate the stacking damage effect. Initiative skills that cause the player to enter combat will generate stacks of this trait.

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Why would we want to reduce the initial burst of damage thieves do when that is their job? They already have low enough sustained damage and survivability. This change is actually so bad not only because its a pointless nerf, but it also promotes terrible gameplay. If I'm a thief in PvP (where I assume these changes are intended) I'm rotating between nodes using my initiative to close the gap. If I'm gaining no lead attacks during that time it diminishes the advantage of having speed. It is basically almost saying that I shouldn't use initiative until I get in combat.

So basically if I want to play rotationally I'll want to either steal instantly or be very predictable. Get in combat to stack my buff or begin fights very disadvantageously just to start gathering a buff. Either that or I play intelligently and suffer getting a huge damage nerf. This promotes Sword Dagger gameplay even more which is already the best thief build in the meta, and absolutely dumpsters dagger pistol gameplay which is more front loaded and required much more skill. Not only that but the reduced duration also makes it ramp down faster so you have to stay IN COMBAT longer, which thieves simply cant do because they lack survivability and sustain. So instead of the skillful in and out combat they are forced to stay in fights longer, but there have been no changes to help their ability to do that. ?????????

My suggestion is revert this change, or even reduce the duration of the buff but allow it to be stacked out of combat. I'd rather not be stuck on an even more braindead version of the sd build for another several months.

That's what you deserved for saying "make chaos traitline unplayable in pvp"

Agreed, very bad change and unnecessary imo.at this point i think anet want thieves to either reroll rev or play deadeye.

lol. this change was good. stacking dmg modifiers outside of combat is dumb, it encourages one shot builds.

Agreed. This change isn't a good one. If dmg reduction is the goal it should be done elsewhere. This goes directly against the class design and promotes a lingering thief fight which is not the intended role. I would at least like to see further explanation behind this change. I'm not one for expressing my disappointment with nerfs. I always just learn to complete my goals with the new changes regardless and not say a word. This seems like a change that I cannot however understand the rationality of.

@Vallun.2071 said:Changes read:

Additionally, we've toned down the initial burst of damage that the thief can apply by removing the ability to stack Lead Attacks when outside of combat. Lead Attacks: The duration of this trait's Lead Attacks stacking effect has been reduced from 15 seconds to 10 seconds. It now requires the player to be in combat in order to generate the stacking damage effect. Initiative skills that cause the player to enter combat will generate stacks of this trait.

---

Why would we want to reduce the initial burst of damage thieves do when that is their job? They already have low enough sustained damage and survivability. This change is actually so bad not only because its a pointless nerf, but it also promotes terrible gameplay. If I'm a thief in PvP (where I assume these changes are intended) I'm rotating between nodes using my initiative to close the gap. If I'm gaining no lead attacks during that time it diminishes the advantage of having speed. It is basically almost saying that I shouldn't use initiative until I get in combat.

So basically if I want to play rotationally I'll want to either steal instantly or be very predictable. Get in combat to stack my buff or begin fights very disadvantageously just to start gathering a buff. Either that or I play intelligently and suffer getting a huge damage nerf. This promotes Sword Dagger gameplay even more which is already the best thief build in the meta, and absolutely dumpsters dagger pistol gameplay which is more front loaded and required much more skill. Not only that but the reduced duration also makes it ramp down faster so you have to stay IN COMBAT longer, which thieves simply cant do because they lack survivability and sustain. So instead of the skillful in and out combat they are forced to stay in fights longer, but there have been no changes to help their ability to do that. ?????????

My suggestion is revert this change, or even reduce the duration of the buff but allow it to be stacked out of combat. I'd rather not be stuck on an even more braindead version of the sd build for another several months.

So in conclusion salt at a very deserved nerf, good riddance I say

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:lol. this change was good. stacking dmg modifiers outside of combat is dumb, it encourages one shot builds.

The DE build everyone complains about one shotting doesn't even use Trickery, but you can place your bets on how many hold outs will use that build now. Lead Attacks aided weapons like sword and helped with non heavy opener builds despite it seeming like it should be more for one shot builds, it just doesn't work that way in actual use. The mechanic was in the name even, kind of stupid to call it Lead Attacks when it's basically Keep-up Attacks now.

Vallun, cuz thieves one-shoted players or nearly did even when that player was bunker build. & you quick disappear or evade after delivering that initial burst. Are you able to spell Broken Vallun?

@Vieux P.1238 said:Vallun, cuz thieves one-shoted players or nearly did even when that player was bunker build. & you quick disappear or evade after delivering that initial burst. Are you able to spell Broken Vallun?

when you say thieves you mean deadeyes. This change nerfed not only the damage of thieves but the playstyle of the melee thief builds. They can nerf the damage of one shot builds by hitting the key componenets of one shot builds not of burst builds. They did this by the way by nerfing deaths judgment and rifle 3, so why double it up and nerf every other thief build? Lets leave in broken dagger storm which is the most boring thing in the game but remove lead attacks which rewarded rotational burst plays.

Yes their burst is strong, but thats about all they have, thieves have to run from fights if they fail to get the burst off because no sustain or survivability. Unless if they are sd thief. Enjoy playing against more of those instead

@Vallun.2071 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:Vallun, cuz thieves one-shoted players or nearly did even when that player was bunker build. & you quick disappear or evade after delivering that initial burst. Are you able to spell Broken Vallun?

DE sure, but i meant D/S as well. In and out damage output is stupid. No way to hit back cuz of so many stealth or evades. So if you don't deliver instant death, you will after a few hit & runs. & most classes can't counter or hit back. Unless that player is new to thief.

Lol this doesn't even touch the only '1shot' build so idk why this change exists but ok ANet we get it you want DE cancer.

Can we change the name to not-so-lead attacks ?

lol he asked for a nerf of spe he doesn't play. They were nerf and he was nerf too XD.

Preventing the stacking outside of combat is annoying, but at least it is understandable.

Additionally reducing the duration of the buffs from 15s to 10s , however, makes no sense, when the cap is at 15. 10 seconds makes 10 initiative, and you'll be starting with less than full having just used it to get from A to B. You'll arrive with little initiative, no buffs, and never fully utilise the trait. It is essentially a 5% damage nerf on top.

It's the classic ANet approach to balance updates. Rather than little by little - apply one suggestion at a time to get to the intended result - they apply every idea at once. Instead of nerfing X by reducing the of A OR B, they reduce A and B and C.

I have to admit, this is pretty lol that the OP's main got nerfed after making a balance suggestion thread.

Sorry, but after being on the receiving end of the absurd damage Deadeyes could do, I think they had this coming.

There's no fun in being downed fast with little time to react. Firebrands know that feeling when they get 1v4'd, which is understandable.

You guys had far too much advantage over your opponents. Now it's time to think like a team and less like a one man army.

rifle deadeye is complete garbage now. Deaths Judgment being blockable is huge nerf.

@Thundabolt.8541 said:Sorry, but after being on the receiving end of the absurd damage Deadeyes could do, I think they had this coming.

you do realize that the one shot deadeye build doesn't use trickery??? It is shadow arts/deadly arts, critical strikes, deadeye. This change literally does nothing to that build, but what it does do is nerf the already mediocre damage of core thief and daredevil.If they really wanted to address the one shot build (which now more ppl will play cos guess what, everything else got a heavy damage nerf) they should have nerfed how much damage you get per malice stack on malicious backstab / death's judgement - there done, perfect nerf without affecting any other build.

I since when thief didn't have sustained dmg?

@Impact.2780 said:Additionally reducing the duration of the buffs from 15s to 10s , however, makes no sense, when the cap is at 15. 10 seconds makes 10 initiative, and you'll be starting with less than full having just used it to get from A to B. You'll arrive with little initiative, no buffs, and never fully utilise the trait. It is essentially a 5% damage nerf on top.

I mean, I understand the nerf is harsh, but you can still stack up to 15 at the beginning of a fight: spend your starting 5+ initiative (it's silly to engage with less anyway), regenerate then spend some more within 10 seconds. It is now certainly harder to stay at 15 stacks in prolonged fights.

@Urejt.5648 said:rifle deadeye is complete garbage now. Deaths Judgment being blockable is huge nerf.

Yeah maybe.. idk. But S/D short bow is making a killing.

@santso.9201 said:I since when thief didn't have sustained dmg?

Pretty much since 2015? Well, more accurately, thief has sustained damage, its just miles lower than everyone elses. There is a reason thieves never go for 1v1s (unless they go for cheesy oneshot builds) and avoid any fight where their side doesnt have more players than the opposing side. That reason being that thieves suck at fighting.

@Airdive.2613 said:

@Impact.2780 said:Additionally reducing the duration of the buffs from 15s to 10s , however, makes no sense, when the cap is at 15. 10 seconds makes 10 initiative, and you'll be starting with less than full having just used it to get from A to B. You'll arrive with little initiative, no buffs, and never fully utilise the trait. It is essentially a 5% damage nerf on top.

Spend 5. Get 5 stacks for 10 seconds.

Gain 10 initiative over 10 seconds. By which time, original 5 gone, new 10 gained. 5-5+10=10.

@Thundabolt.8541 said:Sorry, but after being on the receiving end of the absurd damage Deadeyes could do, I think they had this coming.

There's no fun in being downed fast with little time to react. Firebrands know that feeling when they get 1v4'd, which is understandable.

You guys had far too much advantage over your opponents. Now it's time to think like a team and less like a one man army.

Yeah, it's not a deadeye nerf.For example, my hybrid d/d daredevil build relied on lead attacks (including pre-stacked) to receive a buff to both damage types (to maximize damage output as possible while also not running full glass). I'm not playing thief this season, but I'd hazard a guess my already meme build is that much closer to useless now.