New patches and 'I'm quitting' posts — Guild Wars 2 Forums

New patches and 'I'm quitting' posts

EremiteAngel.9765EremiteAngel.9765 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited December 12, 2018 in Professions

TBH I find it silly seeing all the 'I'm quitting' after every balance patch springing up across the profession threads. That's just like running from a problem, not willing to adapt and change from whatever build/role you have been accustomed to.

As a necro main, we've been on the end of many hard hitting patches but I've never thought of quitting.

Yes some of the changes can be silly and hard to understand to some.
Yes I would gripe and complain. But that's it.
To me a new patch is always a matter of adapting and trying out new builds/specs/playstyles/composition against the new metas run by other classes. That is part of what keeps things fresh and fun.

Adapt and try something new with your class!

A Hermit's Tale - To The Edge of the Mists [Link Here]

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Comments

  • RedShark.9548RedShark.9548 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sahfur.5612 said:
    Some builds that were removed were actually not meta or overly powerful, although I support fixing problem builds (and thus a large percentage of the changes) I don't support removing entire stat sets or playstyles from a class when they didn't even compare to the meta way of playing the class - merciless hammer as an example. It was almost entirely used for a support cc build and it was by far harder to get solo kills with it compared to any other build on warrior that I use. I just hate to see the diversity dying as a result of anet giving up.

    Balancing - yes.
    Removing playstyles without offering viable but not overpowered alternatives for the gear - no.

    I'm glad to see OP stuff being toned down or removed, but I don't want build diversity to suffer as a result because it makes fights extremely boring and predictable..

    Merciless hammer was just trash. Now its mediocre and still gets outshined by the other 2 options. In what build did you need an obvious power weapon that applied confusion? Hybrid warrior? Dont make me laugh

  • @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Sahfur.5612 said:
    Some builds that were removed were actually not meta or overly powerful, although I support fixing problem builds (and thus a large percentage of the changes) I don't support removing entire stat sets or playstyles from a class when they didn't even compare to the meta way of playing the class - merciless hammer as an example. It was almost entirely used for a support cc build and it was by far harder to get solo kills with it compared to any other build on warrior that I use. I just hate to see the diversity dying as a result of anet giving up.

    Balancing - yes.
    Removing playstyles without offering viable but not overpowered alternatives for the gear - no.

    I'm glad to see OP stuff being toned down or removed, but I don't want build diversity to suffer as a result because it makes fights extremely boring and predictable..

    Merciless hammer was just trash. Now its mediocre and still gets outshined by the other 2 options. In what build did you need an obvious power weapon that applied confusion? Hybrid warrior? Dont make me laugh

    A Build gets removed that was the equivalent of trying to get a Nail in the wall with a rock.

    Forum: BuT mY bUiLd DiVeRsItY!!!

  • RedShark.9548RedShark.9548 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @DanAlcedo.3281 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Sahfur.5612 said:
    Some builds that were removed were actually not meta or overly powerful, although I support fixing problem builds (and thus a large percentage of the changes) I don't support removing entire stat sets or playstyles from a class when they didn't even compare to the meta way of playing the class - merciless hammer as an example. It was almost entirely used for a support cc build and it was by far harder to get solo kills with it compared to any other build on warrior that I use. I just hate to see the diversity dying as a result of anet giving up.

    Balancing - yes.
    Removing playstyles without offering viable but not overpowered alternatives for the gear - no.

    I'm glad to see OP stuff being toned down or removed, but I don't want build diversity to suffer as a result because it makes fights extremely boring and predictable..

    Merciless hammer was just trash. Now its mediocre and still gets outshined by the other 2 options. In what build did you need an obvious power weapon that applied confusion? Hybrid warrior? Dont make me laugh

    A Build gets removed that was the equivalent of trying to get a Nail in the wall with a rock.

    Forum: BuT mY bUiLd DiVeRsItY!!!

    I honestly would probably play that trait now in zergfights, if it was in discipline, because strength just doesnt fit into zergbuilds, due to basically being forced to go defense/discipline and spb.
    Thematically merciless hammer fits into strength, but buildwise i cant fit it in. In smallscale mmr is still better and in pve berserkers power is alot more reliable

  • Kumouta.4985Kumouta.4985 Member ✭✭✭

    condi reapy never changes tho

  • I agree, it is tiring. On the engineer sub-board it is almost a constant theme. Every update, every balance-patch ruined the class in total. Then a few months later, the next update kicks in and the already unplayable class becomes more nerfed. We also had a couple of those ridiculous "build diversity" comments now, where people actually claim that boosting underpowered skills & traits cannot lead to more diversity. Leads me to the assumption that those people do not want diversity in general XD. It is nice to have an overpowered build/mechanic.

    Sometimes I believe to live in a parallel universe or play a totally different game. Every update/fix I enjoy is bashed and claimed to be a total disaster. Even the damage-boost of the Scrapper by ridiculously 15 % is seen as a nerf O_O. Over the time you get used to all the complains and get a thicker skin on that, but you cannot really ignore it. You question your decisions and your experience, sometimes thinking that you are a complete idiot because everyone else has a totally different opinion. But on the other hand, the forum population is a mere fraction of the entire game population.

    The situation with the Mesmers was predictable. Even the Elementalist got kicked from its thrown recently, so it was only a matter of time. The Mesmers were The Inevitable. Especially if you look into their sub-board right now, you realize there was NO alternative before the patch. The high priests of efficiency and meta-builds (snowcrows, qT, ... etc.) are probably already working on the next Inevitable and indomitable group-setup. In a few days, there will be a new ultimate meta and after a week or two people will farm cm100 and raids like almost nothing had happened.

    A few months ago I figured out a very cool and almost unknown mechanic within the engineer. I ran a few tests and realized some impressive potential, so I ran calculations and designed a special gear-set to optimize that play-style. As I wanted to use it in fractals, it had to be ascended gear. It took me ages to collect every single part of the armor, weapons, trinkets & backpiece. I also wanted a special style which required some extremely hard to get skins (stellar) and of course a full set of leadership runes. When I had everything but the runes complete, ANet made another balance patch and ruined my discovery in total. Every tiny little piece of effort I have put into it was gone to waste. After a few minutes of regret, I put the gear into my bank and carried on with life. A few months later, I was able to re-purpose the set and the skins.

    Progress needs changes.

    Knowlege is power, but without fame you are just a maniac. Keep scrolling, this is not the information you are looking for.
  • Turkeyspit.3965Turkeyspit.3965 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 12, 2018

    @Kumouta.4985 said:
    condi reapy never changes tho

    Apologies, but couldn't help myself...

  • gimo.3281gimo.3281 Member ✭✭
    edited December 12, 2018

    Send me 49 Eternity if you quit so i can gift those to 49 people in Kessex Hills this Christmas.

  • Scar.1793Scar.1793 Member ✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    its tiring.
    the mes forum is the worst lol. what annoys me about chrono nerfs+qq is that chrono was obviously op.

    They’ve been op since forever tbh last expacs and especially PoF was the worst with mirage

  • @DanAlcedo.3281 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Sahfur.5612 said:
    Some builds that were removed were actually not meta or overly powerful, although I support fixing problem builds (and thus a large percentage of the changes) I don't support removing entire stat sets or playstyles from a class when they didn't even compare to the meta way of playing the class - merciless hammer as an example. It was almost entirely used for a support cc build and it was by far harder to get solo kills with it compared to any other build on warrior that I use. I just hate to see the diversity dying as a result of anet giving up.

    Balancing - yes.
    Removing playstyles without offering viable but not overpowered alternatives for the gear - no.

    I'm glad to see OP stuff being toned down or removed, but I don't want build diversity to suffer as a result because it makes fights extremely boring and predictable..

    Merciless hammer was just trash. Now its mediocre and still gets outshined by the other 2 options. In what build did you need an obvious power weapon that applied confusion? Hybrid warrior? Dont make me laugh

    A Build gets removed that was the equivalent of trying to get a Nail in the wall with a rock.

    Forum: BuT mY bUiLd DiVeRsItY!!!

    Build diversity only spplies to non rangers non mesmers XD

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Well anet dose not seem to read any thing so is there any other ways of getting them to see what they are doing you do not like? Should we do a mail action where we all send them letters of why there balancing is wrong?

  • Mes's crying is a joke. Well, do what people tell us necros and change class...see how that floats your boat, oh hold on you still destroy as is...meh pathetic.

  • Anet made classes and the classes is what they decide they are

  • Zaraki.5784Zaraki.5784 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Simply: Who cares? If someone is so stupid to quit just for a balance patch not liked, then I can't help but feeling glad that I won't risk to find such kind of people in-game anymore.
    Sadly those "I'm quitting" guys are (most of the times) trolls who write that just for the sake of being salty on forums or if they really quit, they only do so for a few weeks/months at most :/

    "Sticks and stones may break your bones but words will never be able to injure you!"
    The Grim Adventures of Billy & Mandy

  • @EremiteAngel.9765 said:
    Adapt and try something new with your class!

    How much different is it from trying new game? Why only new class. Stupid changes in recent balance patches inspired me to start looking for new game. Hopefully I can find something.

  • @RedShark.9548 said:
    Merciless hammer was just trash. Now its mediocre and still gets outshined by the other 2 options. In what build did you need an obvious power weapon that applied confusion?

    Even on straight Zerk gear, extra damage is extra damage. They should have just kept the confusion. What was it, 4 stacks for 900 that can be reapplied over and over?
    Do I even need to mention the hard-ons pure Condi Bowserkers ought to be getting?

    Personally, I just like the feedback of generating pink clouds.

    Hybrid warrior? Dont make me laugh

    Grieving might want a word with you.

  • Eramonster.2718Eramonster.2718 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 14, 2018

    @Scar.1793 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    its tiring.
    the mes forum is the worst lol. what annoys me about chrono nerfs+qq is that chrono was obviously op.

    They’ve been op since forever tbh last expacs and especially PoF was the worst with mirage

    With Sigil of Inspiration now not effected by concentration, Mirage can support by extending existing boons. Talking about 20k+ dps semi-support, 1 button swap and not messing up rotation (dodge :lol:).

    @XenoSpyro.1780 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:
    Merciless hammer was just trash. Now its mediocre and still gets outshined by the other 2 options. In what build did you need an obvious power weapon that applied confusion?

    Even on straight Zerk gear, extra damage is extra damage. They should have just kept the confusion. What was it, 4 stacks for 900 that can be reapplied over and over?
    Do I even need to mention the hard-ons pure Condi Bowserkers ought to be getting?

    Personally, I just like the feedback of generating pink clouds.

    Hybrid warrior? Dont make me laugh

    Grieving might want a word with you.

    The new trait is a straight up buff. More burst/damage for hammer, can't find a reason not to like it even if warrior is not my core main.

    • Hammer skills now inflict increased damage on any disabled target, not just those who are dazed, knocked down, launched, or stunned. This trait now grants adrenaline when the warrior disables a foe, regardless of the weapon the warrior wields.

    +20% dmg and it works with soft cc (crippled,chilled etc imo) in addition to that, the trait works outside of hammer(multipurpose). :kiss:

  • Yannir.4132Yannir.4132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @EremiteAngel.9765 said:
    TBH I find it silly seeing all the 'I'm quitting' after every balance patch springing up across the profession threads. That's just like running from a problem, not willing to adapt and change from whatever build/role you have been accustomed to.

    As a necro main, we've been on the end of many hard hitting patches but I've never thought of quitting.

    Yes some of the changes can be silly and hard to understand to some.
    Yes I would gripe and complain. But that's it.
    To me a new patch is always a matter of adapting and trying out new builds/specs/playstyles/composition against the new metas run by other classes. That is part of what keeps things fresh and fun.

    Adapt and try something new with your class!

    Yeah, I laugh at these self-important posts as well. ANet reads your data, they don't need you to tell them. So all it is is seeking attention.

    That said, I don't really get enjoyment out of GW2 anymore, other than in short bursts every few weeks. It's been slowly happening for the past 6 months or so. I don't really have the time anymore either, or the headspace to "git gud". I don't know whether it's the mess of a spam-fiesta that's PvP these days, or the un-engaging PvE content. I would like to have more long term goals, which are just non-existant in this game. And yes, I already have several legendaries.

    And honestly it never made any sense to me, that you could get a precursor drop from a random Grawl in Ascalon but killing a Fractal boss gets you boxes inside boxes that are worth absolutely nothing. Atleast give me some kind of unique memento from my kill, like just an achievement from killing a certain boss like 50 times would be awesome. I don't even need AP for it. Just the bragging rights for having an achi like that would be enough for me.

  • @lodjur.1284 said:
    snips

    to be fair the mes nerf was big, and I feel for those who invested a lot in gear. something had to come sometime tho.

    pew~

  • lodjur.1284lodjur.1284 Member ✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @lodjur.1284 said:
    snips

    to be fair the mes nerf was big, and I feel for those who invested a lot in gear. something had to come sometime tho.

    Did it? Since the mesmer nerfs started I wouldn't say PvE got more fun for anyone, nor did it in any way get better. Now we will most likely still have mesmer as BiS with other options being decidedly mediocre, but playing mesmer will be less fun then ever, now I don't even play the class so it doesn't affect me super much but the mesmer mains in PvE I know no longer wanna PvE at all.

    There will always be a best option, this is inevitable, nerfing it to be boring and "braindead" doesn't achieve anything.

    Ögonen omges av vita och svarta penseldrag som gör att de ser större ut än vad de egentligen är. Baksidan av lodjurets öron kantas av svart päls som slutar i den karaktäristiska tofsen högst upp på örat. Lodjurets svans är kortare än de flesta andra kattdjurs.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 14, 2018

    @lodjur.1284 said:
    What would one quit over if not balance issues and why would you be glad to not people like that in the game?

    Oh that's an easy one; because balance isn't ever a reason people play a game like MMO's. The games always change so the idea of balance is this little game people use to justify rallying against changes they don't like, or for changes they want. It's not actually real; it never actually can happen. Balance is not objective.

    Why we glad those people leave? Because their ideas of how the game should evolve are not based on anything but an idea that can't ever happen.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • lodjur.1284lodjur.1284 Member ✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @lodjur.1284 said:
    What would one quit over if not balance issues and why would you be glad to not people like that in the game?

    Oh that's an easy one; because balance isn't ever a reason people play a game like MMO's. The games always change so the idea of balance is this little game people use to justify rallying against changes they don't like, or for changes they want. It's not actually real; it never actually can happen. Balance is not objective.

    Why we glad those people leave? Because their ideas of how the game should evolve are not based on anything but an idea that can't ever happen.

    Right the amazing "hardcore casual" mindset. "I don't agree with you so I'd rather you quit the game" amazing mentality there.

    The objective of a game is to have fun, no matter how casual or hardcore one is. What this means varies from person to person. I want there to be a wide range of viable builds that allow you to leverage your skilllevel versus other players, this is what fun means to me. This requires some degree of balance, not every build needs to be viable, but enough different ones need to be. People (generally) start threads about balance on the forum to try to show what direction they want the game to move in, which usually comes down to wanting something they fun fun to be better (either directly or by comparison), this is how the developers actually have a chance to see what the community wants, even if it is a very flawed way of showing it.

    Quitting over balance issues doesn't mean that one requires or even wants perfect balance, it means that one is very unhappy with the current state of combat in the game (which is what balance affects). It means the game is no longer fun because you can't play the build you want to play in a viable way. Balance is not fully objective, but it is partly objective, hence why only some people quit. In addition to this a game can be more or less balanced, right now the game is very far from balanced, saying that buffing support tempest would make the game more balanced is an objective fact, there's not any room for interpretation here, firebrand is better by such a wide margin.

    Ögonen omges av vita och svarta penseldrag som gör att de ser större ut än vad de egentligen är. Baksidan av lodjurets öron kantas av svart päls som slutar i den karaktäristiska tofsen högst upp på örat. Lodjurets svans är kortare än de flesta andra kattdjurs.

  • getalifeturd.8139getalifeturd.8139 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 15, 2018

    @EremiteAngel.9765 said:
    TBH I find it silly seeing all the 'I'm quitting' after every balance patch springing up across the profession threads. That's just like running from a problem, not willing to adapt and change from whatever build/role you have been accustomed to.

    As a necro main, we've been on the end of many hard hitting patches but I've never thought of quitting.

    Yes some of the changes can be silly and hard to understand to some.
    Yes I would gripe and complain. But that's it.
    To me a new patch is always a matter of adapting and trying out new builds/specs/playstyles/composition against the new metas run by other classes. That is part of what keeps things fresh and fun.

    Adapt and try something new with your class!

    If you enjoy masochism that's fine but many people grow to hate the game and move on with their life. You're adapting to Arenanet's balancing decisions that most of the time aren't logical or based on reality. The game hasn't been balanced objectively since Guild Wars 1. This game never stood a chance at being an esport compared to GW1.

    Changing your build to the most overpowered skills and traits every patch is skill in GW2. If your class gets nerfed most people would be better off just rerolling to the most overpowered class that hasn't been nerfed that patch. Every new expansion is more power creep and people wonder why others quit when they're tired of it.

    The worst part is that balance in GW2 revolves around nerfing old elite specs to force people to use the new ones. This makes Arenanet money and its in their best interest to nerf any viable core build. Here's some examples of Arenanet doing that to thief before releasing Daredevil (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Feline_Grace) and Deadeye (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unhindered_Combat).

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    I don't see the problem ... it's natural that people lose interest and move on from the game. As a player, you don't have a choice BUT to adapt to the changing nature of MMO's, regardless if they are logical or based on reality.

    But I do have a choice and so do many others and that is to quit and find something better to do. We are not forced to whiteknight for Arenanet or play GW2 for eternity.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 14, 2018

    @getalifeturd.8139 said:

    @EremiteAngel.9765 said:
    TBH I find it silly seeing all the 'I'm quitting' after every balance patch springing up across the profession threads. That's just like running from a problem, not willing to adapt and change from whatever build/role you have been accustomed to.

    As a necro main, we've been on the end of many hard hitting patches but I've never thought of quitting.

    Yes some of the changes can be silly and hard to understand to some.
    Yes I would gripe and complain. But that's it.
    To me a new patch is always a matter of adapting and trying out new builds/specs/playstyles/composition against the new metas run by other classes. That is part of what keeps things fresh and fun.

    Adapt and try something new with your class!

    If you enjoy masochism that's fine but many people grow to hate the game and move on with their life. You're adapting to Arenanet's balancing decisions that most of the time aren't logical or based on reality.

    I don't see the problem ... it's natural that people lose interest and move on from the game. As a player, you don't have a choice BUT to adapt to the changing nature of MMO's, regardless if they are logical or based on reality.

    @lodjur.1284 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @lodjur.1284 said:
    What would one quit over if not balance issues and why would you be glad to not people like that in the game?

    Oh that's an easy one; because balance isn't ever a reason people play a game like MMO's. The games always change so the idea of balance is this little game people use to justify rallying against changes they don't like, or for changes they want. It's not actually real; it never actually can happen. Balance is not objective.

    Why we glad those people leave? Because their ideas of how the game should evolve are not based on anything but an idea that can't ever happen.

    Right the amazing "hardcore casual" mindset. "I don't agree with you so I'd rather you quit the game" amazing mentality there.

    It's not amazing, it's realistic. It's not about whether I agree with you or not. it's about the reality that Anet controls the game, not the players. Players that think they have some kind of control over how the game is developed are some of the most annoying I can think of because all of their ideas revolve around the concept that what they think is the way it should be done. I can't think of anything farther from how MMO's are developed than that.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • DerJoker.9081DerJoker.9081 Member ✭✭✭

    Ppl get whinier and whinier as time goes by.
    Let them go and play some p2w kitten, where it does not matter if something gets nerfed, because they p2w anyways.
    I'm happy for everyone of them that leaves.

    I mean, I just geared my druid in full harrier, bad for me too, because I'm poor and don't have much time. Still worth it for me, looking at the whole game.

  • RedShark.9548RedShark.9548 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @XenoSpyro.1780 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:
    Merciless hammer was just trash. Now its mediocre and still gets outshined by the other 2 options. In what build did you need an obvious power weapon that applied confusion?

    Even on straight Zerk gear, extra damage is extra damage. They should have just kept the confusion. What was it, 4 stacks for 900 that can be reapplied over and over?
    Do I even need to mention the hard-ons pure Condi Bowserkers ought to be getting?

    are you serious ? the dmg buff in % you get for a straight zerker build is way better than those trashy confusion stacks, period.
    condi "bowserker" are mainly played in pve, where you generally dont interrupt alot of stuff, and bow doesnt interrupt anything anyways, so how do you even trigger that confusion THAT many times ?
    its certainly not a build for pvp or wvw. so that argument is basically invalid.
    oh and before the change the effects mainly worked with hammer, who plays hammer in pve ? hu ? especially not if you want to apply condis, its just not a condition weapon at all

    the changes are rly GOOD, but still its outshined by the other 2 traits, its as simple as that.

    and grieving stats can "talk" to me as much as they want, they wont convince me that they justify a hammer trait, one of the CLEAREST power weapons in the game that its a wannabe condi/hybrid/whatever abomination

  • i dont mind the support chrono changes. its just i fear that they would either not allow mesmers anywere (or give them the same treatment as power revs in the past or necromancers pre hot), because i personally enjoy power chrono dps on more then one level. (just so satisfying seing 4 berserkers killing the enemy at the same time).

  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lucas.3718 said:
    i dont mind the support chrono changes. its just i fear that they would either not allow mesmers anywere (or give them the same treatment as power revs in the past or necromancers pre hot), because i personally enjoy power chrono dps on more then one level. (just so satisfying seing 4 berserkers killing the enemy at the same time).

    That's a bit hyperbolic. The mesmer has so many tools at its disposal that losing this one doesn't strip them from having multiple solid places in raids. They're still one of the best at stripping boons, destroying break bars, have fantastic condition and power damage and are still solid tanks.

    Where the rev and necro couldn't find parties in the past was because they didn't have any unique tech that someone else couldn't do better. Mesmer isn't better at removing boons but groups don't need the mass boon removal one one or two which mesmer is great at. Groups didn't need to strong stuns the rev provided because mesmer once again is just way better at it. Even now these roles are still easily filled by mesmer or by spellbreaker, and necro only really has epidemic. Which was its soul reason previously. Rev could heal, but druid and ele were far better at it and didn't require being stationary. Mesmer doesn't have these issues. Even with just alacrity and quickness you would need a rev and a guardian to get the same boons. Which is honestly the only thing chrono should have been pumping out in the first place.

  • Anchoku.8142Anchoku.8142 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The December balance patch made me think Arenanet thought, "Let's nerf everything the same way and see what happens."

    I expect another balance patch because we buy stuff to pay for expacs, story, and balance patching. As long as we care and pay, there will be balance changes.

  • Vagrant.7206Vagrant.7206 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 25, 2018

    @HnRkLnXqZ.1870 said:
    I agree, it is tiring. On the engineer sub-board it is almost a constant theme. Every update, every balance-patch ruined the class in total. Then a few months later, the next update kicks in and the already unplayable class becomes more nerfed. We also had a couple of those ridiculous "build diversity" comments now, where people actually claim that boosting underpowered skills & traits cannot lead to more diversity. Leads me to the assumption that those people do not want diversity in general XD. It is nice to have an overpowered build/mechanic.

    To be fair, half the time when they say they are buffing some aspect of engineer, it turns out they totally ruined some other playstyle. Recently, they said they were buffing scrapper, but they ended up making gyros worse and the buffs weren't really that significant in comparison. It damaged the viable, if not meta, WvW scrapper support build.

    Basically, it seems like they don't actually play or understand their more complex classes.

    The great god Lagki demands sacrifice!

  • @Vagrant.7206 said:

    @HnRkLnXqZ.1870 said:
    I agree, it is tiring. On the engineer sub-board it is almost a constant theme. Every update, every balance-patch ruined the class in total. Then a few months later, the next update kicks in and the already unplayable class becomes more nerfed. We also had a couple of those ridiculous "build diversity" comments now, where people actually claim that boosting underpowered skills & traits cannot lead to more diversity. Leads me to the assumption that those people do not want diversity in general XD. It is nice to have an overpowered build/mechanic.

    To be fair, half the time when they say they are buffing some aspect of engineer, it turns out they totally ruined some other playstyle. Recently, they said they were buffing scrapper, but they ended up making gyros worse and the buffs weren't really that significant in comparison. It damaged the viable, if not meta, WvW scrapper support build.

    Basically, it seems like they don't actually play or understand their more complex classes.

    Honestly, engi has been dead for me since the spec patch and HoT, since they took a jack of all trades type class and made more than half the options hilariously weak by comparison to the new stuff. I loved celestial bombs as a build, but there is just zero reason to keep playing it compared to the meta options these days. That, and they keep changing the way turret detonation and overcharge worked which messes with your muscle memory for no really good reason.

    Critical Kit, Deadeye.

  • @HnRkLnXqZ.1870 said:
    I agree, it is tiring. On the engineer sub-board it is almost a constant theme. Every update, every balance-patch ruined the class in total. Then a few months later, the next update kicks in and the already unplayable class becomes more nerfed. We also had a couple of those ridiculous "build diversity" comments now, where people actually claim that boosting underpowered skills & traits cannot lead to more diversity. Leads me to the assumption that those people do not want diversity in general XD. It is nice to have an overpowered build/mechanic.

    Sometimes I believe to live in a parallel universe or play a totally different game. Every update/fix I enjoy is bashed and claimed to be a total disaster. Even the damage-boost of the Scrapper by ridiculously 15 % is seen as a nerf O_O. Over the time you get used to all the complains and get a thicker skin on that, but you cannot really ignore it. You question your decisions and your experience, sometimes thinking that you are a complete idiot because everyone else has a totally different opinion. But on the other hand, the forum population is a mere fraction of the entire game population.

    The situation with the Mesmers was predictable. Even the Elementalist got kicked from its thrown recently, so it was only a matter of time. The Mesmers were The Inevitable. Especially if you look into their sub-board right now, you realize there was NO alternative before the patch. The high priests of efficiency and meta-builds (snowcrows, qT, ... etc.) are probably already working on the next Inevitable and indomitable group-setup. In a few days, there will be a new ultimate meta and after a week or two people will farm cm100 and raids like almost nothing had happened.

    A few months ago I figured out a very cool and almost unknown mechanic within the engineer. I ran a few tests and realized some impressive potential, so I ran calculations and designed a special gear-set to optimize that play-style. As I wanted to use it in fractals, it had to be ascended gear. It took me ages to collect every single part of the armor, weapons, trinkets & backpiece. I also wanted a special style which required some extremely hard to get skins (stellar) and of course a full set of leadership runes. When I had everything but the runes complete, ANet made another balance patch and ruined my discovery in total. Every tiny little piece of effort I have put into it was gone to waste. After a few minutes of regret, I put the gear into my bank and carried on with life. A few months later, I was able to re-purpose the set and the skins.

    Progress needs changes.
    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    @HnRkLnXqZ.1870 said:
    I agree, it is tiring. On the engineer sub-board it is almost a constant theme. Every update, every balance-patch ruined the class in total. Then a few months later, the next update kicks in and the already unplayable class becomes more nerfed. We also had a couple of those ridiculous "build diversity" comments now, where people actually claim that boosting underpowered skills & traits cannot lead to more diversity. Leads me to the assumption that those people do not want diversity in general XD. It is nice to have an overpowered build/mechanic.

    To be fair, half the time when they say they are buffing some aspect of engineer, it turns out they totally ruined some other playstyle. Recently, they said they were buffing scrapper, but they ended up making gyros worse and the buffs weren't really that significant in comparison. It damaged the viable, if not meta, WvW scrapper support build.

    Basically, it seems like they don't actually play or understand their more complex classes.

    Indeed. To me a nerf is fair enough. They claim something is too powerful and nerf it. Everything working as they intended. Of course one might disagree on the necessity or magnitude of a nerf or even how it mechanically was implemented, but the expected result is a power reduction and usually that is what happens.

    But a buff that turns out to be irrelevant means they stated that they wanted a power increase in a certain aspect but that turns out to be so minuscule as to not be noticeable. This can happen when they don't understand the function of a certain skill or even playstyle such as when they increased the damage done by rocket boots. They failed to understand that the skills offensive capabilities (on the leap and not rocket kick) are irrelevant for how the skill is used or designed (as an escape or mobility tool). In fact removing the damage altogether would allow it to work better as an escape as it would be easier to combine with stealth and thus such a change would serve as a stronger power increase than a plain vanilla 20% damage increase. And the purity of purpose meme is so great because this change was implemented in that same patch that they coined that expression. Oh and they increased the direct damage component of one of the stronger condition skills in the engineers arsenal by 10%. This gives off a dart board balance impression which is frustrating when the people who spend a lot of time on a class might see actual changes that could be made to allow for exiting play styles. Finally they usually present these irrelevant buffs as a sort of compensation for nerfing overperforming aspects of another part of that class, as if to appease the players by saying "well at least you got other options now to explore!". But put to its extreme, you can't buff the direct damage component of box of nails by 100,000% and expect that to compensate for nerfing lets say photon forge by 90%. At least not in the eyes of the players. And the cynic in me says that the reason for these wacky buffs might be that they do not want more things to become viable because that increases the complexity and makes their jobb harder.

    Then there's the truly ugly things and luckily they are few and far between. The buff that turns out to be a nerf. Here they actually put a lot of effort into changing how something work radically only for the buff to turn out to be a white elephant. Its disastrous because the reality and the intended consequences goes in two different directions, and it usually happens to things that area already in danger of being irrelevant (thus why they consider them safe to rework). The reason im fed up with the scrapper is that it has had two of these kinds of changes in a row. First the damage scaling on gyros patch that ended up a nerf for all tanky builds and barely noticeable on a full glass cannon spec (on a class not designed to be attractive to a glass cannon playstyle), and worse made the class mechanic itself work against you by now revealing you when under the cover of one of your otherwise most potent utility (sneakgyro), not even mentioning the other gyros. Second they removed the unique utility the one scrapper build being run in anything close to meta had in favor of making the scrapper that already struggles with identity closer to the holosmith. I mean ive seen the wacky cc heavy glass cannon duelist builds with rifle or whatever that people have experimented with thanks to this but isn't that niche already covered by the holo? And before you say the heals and all that is unique to scrapper the healing is not scrapper unique, it is merely aided by rapid regen. You could probably do something similar with holosmith if heat therapy worked as it should with MDF.

    These changes might seem inconsequential for players that did not run the scrapper in any serious fashion, but for some of us who had not left it even for holosmith at its prime it shows a complete lack of focus for a spec that needs it more than ever. This is further made problematic by a refusal to admit mistakes and sweep them under the rug. We wont get final salvo back, that much we know. We might get another rework that turns the scrapper into yet another thing it wasn't designed well to do. When they updated elixir S to make you immune to conditions we knew it would backfire because being vulnerable to conditions in it was an important balancing factor to it. But instead of reverting this change they made it apply 3k barrier and some protection on a traitline already offering that. It is a bad habbit to refuse going back on an idea just out of pride even if this is understandably very hard to do and most of us probably wont.

    -Purity of Purpose-
    P.S. You know, expert examination has worked this way since HOT release. You just updated the description.

    Also super speed does not stack, it overwrites. 5s + 1s=1s.

  • All these people that complain about people who complain should stop complaining..

  • One can tell that no one in here played Mesmer, ever. If you think peolpe are crying because it was nerfed, then you're wrong and should work on your reading comprehension. It's bad to play, that's what it is. But your Schadenfreude is more important than the happiness of those who carried your necro slack dps through content over the last years, right?

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 28, 2018

    @rabenpriester.7129 said:
    One can tell that no one in here played Mesmer, ever. If you think peolpe are crying because it was nerfed, then you're wrong and should work on your reading comprehension. It's bad to play, that's what it is. But your Schadenfreude is more important than the happiness of those who carried your necro slack dps through content over the last years, right?

    No, that's nonsense. The state of mesmer prior to the changes completely trivialized the PVE group content as well as the classes it teamed with ... and good players recognized how the combination of tools mesmer had resulted in a bad gaming experience for everyone, including the mesmer. You even acknowledge it by your comment about carrying necros ... because necros loved being carried right??? :frown:

    The irony is pretty big there; one could argue that a reason the 'have-not' classes are so poorly regarded in PVE content is because of the existence of abominations like massive boon-sharing, all-boon-generating mesmer. Yeah, big thanks for carrying all us have-not classes but ... I would rather play a class that brings value to a team and have fun doing it to be successful in the game than just go through the motions clinging to OP'ed classes like mesmer to be carried. I can assure you that no necro is excited that mesmer is nerfed because necro is no better off because of it. Being bitter isn't cool.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • rabenpriester.7129rabenpriester.7129 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 28, 2018

    Classic example of not understanding the problem, in response to me saying you don't understand the issue. lul

  • Zin Dau.1749Zin Dau.1749 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 28, 2018

    you can nerf mesmer/chrono to the ground, and your necro still wouldn't be welcome. nerfing the mesmer didn't automatically add value to other classes. they have nerfed and modified the mesmer class so many times in the past year or two, yet players still value them over other classes. that means the real problem is with the other classes. just crying foul about mesmer will do nothing to improve the situation for other classes.

    the last patch made everybody lose. don't complain about why mesmer is so good; it's better to look into why other classes are so unwanted, then make resolve them more valuable.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 28, 2018

    @rabenpriester.7129 said:
    Classic example of not understanding the problem, in response to me saying you don't understand the issue. lul

    LUL all you like, what I say is true. If Anet nerfing Mesmer to solve a problem created a new one, then that new problem is way less significant than the one they fixed. Being bitter at have-not classes and calling them out for your misery is just sad.

    Instead of telling me I don't understand the problem, how about you tell us what it is then? You don't like adapting to the game when it changes, even when it's frequent? Yeah I read that one too ... I won't bother telling you what I think about that bit of unrealistic straw-grasping either. You will probably drown me in LULs.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • You seem mad.

  • I will never understand the Lava Font nerf in all game modes

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @rabenpriester.7129 said:
    You seem mad.

    Sounds like someone is projecting here. I see you still didn't explain what the problem is that we all don't understand. Maybe you don't understand it?

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • just to point it out the nerfs to chrono nerfed every other profession more than it did to chrono, that kinda shows how much endgame content was revolved around Chrono.. Reminded me of the Monks in Gw1 :p

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