What is going on? Anet actually making some good balance changes? madness

certainly not a flawless patch, but wow, balance changes that actually make senseand changing things that have been overpowered for ages and that people just took for granted as things that will always be brokenand even going back and replacing that awful bandaid fix with a proper fixmy mind is blown

You say that, and while yes some of it is good there's other things that showcase to me that they have no idea what to do. Namely the engineer elixir changes. A set of utilties that were meant to augment yourself and a group seemingly keep getting that group utility removed...Like honestly group superspeed, what a joke. People want group quickness and it's not even like the quickness that gave was anywhere near on par with others.

@TexZero.7910 said:You say that, and while yes some of it is good there's other things that showcase to me that they have no idea what to do. Namely the engineer elixir changes. A set of utilties that were meant to augment yourself and a group seemingly keep getting that group utility removed...Like honestly group superspeed, what a joke. People want group quickness and it's not even like the quickness that gave was anywhere near on par with others.

As ArenaNet can't or don't want to change mechanics between game modes, I think this was actually intended as a holosmith PvP nerf. And in this context the change was good.

yeah, having skills do fundamentally different things in different game modes is not a good way to do skill splits. and yeah, holosmith's most oppressive pvp build used the elixir, to great effect

@reikken.4961 said:yeah, having skills do fundamentally different things in different game modes is not a good way to do skill splits. and yeah, holosmith's most oppressive pvp build used the elixir, to great effect

They used to do nerfs that affected all game modes; people cried to make it stop. Now anet seperates game mode nerfs. People still cry

I also see the elexir nerf as a Holo-nerf. I am not happy with that either, but compared to what could have happened we escaped with a bleeding nose and a black eye. The worse option would have been full exchange of Elexir S for Elexir E and a complete superspeed only gain from Elexir U.

@Chasind.3128 said:

@reikken.4961 said:yeah, having skills do fundamentally different things in different game modes is not a good way to do skill splits. and yeah, holosmith's most oppressive pvp build used the elixir, to great effect

Like they split wvw chrono from pve. It's completely useless in wvw now.

@SloRules.3560 said:

@Chasind.3128 said:

@reikken.4961 said:yeah, having skills do fundamentally different things in different game modes is not a good way to do skill splits. and yeah, holosmith's most oppressive pvp build used the elixir, to great effect

And PvE is noting it's useless there too.

I suppose backhanded compliments are still technically compliments... good job?

@HnRkLnXqZ.1870 said:I also see the elexir nerf as a Holo-nerf. I am not happy with that either, but compared to what could have happened we escaped with a bleeding nose and a black eye. The worse option would have been full exchange of Elexir S for Elexir E and a complete superspeed only gain from Elexir U.

Don't give them any ideas please.

Yeah final salvo was totally OP, all the meta scrapper WvWers, PvPers and PvE raiders running around with super OP gyros was beginning to become absurd. It was like, should you play holo? NO BECAUSE FINAL SALVO! Should you have the healing turret? NO BECAUSE GYROS KITTEN!

Cant see anything positive about this patch from a pve perspective. Their new direction regarding boons in pve means instanced content will become even more restrictive and some elite specs wont be viable at all anymore.

@zombyturtle.5980 said:Cant see anything positive about this patch from a pve perspective. Their new direction regarding boons in pve means instanced content will become even more restrictive and some elite specs wont be viable at all anymore.

The changes to boons was long overdue. I have been saying that this was going to happen since basically a year into HoT.The current state of both Boon Application and Duration is problematic. They've stopped being meaningful parts of combat because the power boost they contain has shifted to what people believe to be a permanant state and thus mandatory for encounters and their design.

@TexZero.7910 said:

@zombyturtle.5980 said:Cant see anything positive about this patch from a pve perspective. Their new direction regarding boons in pve means instanced content will become even more restrictive and some elite specs wont be viable at all anymore.

That great at all but now you have overspecialization of classes and if that class dose not fall into that overspecialization then its not wanted at all.

If you want to support and you dont have the right class with the right boon your out of luck. If you want to do dmg but cant bring any other effects that just that dmg your also out of luck. This game is going to become a much colder places unless you have 9 level 80 chaters with all elite spec unlocked. You are forced into having alts.

Its realy the worst out come of what GW2 started out to be that different mmorpg because its become just like all other mmorpgs.

I still don't understand why the Tomb changes to FB cooldown is moving towards with the increased cd duration in PVE. Someone can share ?

@Jski.6180 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:

@zombyturtle.5980 said:Cant see anything positive about this patch from a pve perspective. Their new direction regarding boons in pve means instanced content will become even more restrictive and some elite specs wont be viable at all anymore.

You're acting like it's hard to have 1 of every class at 80.

This game literally hands out free levels....It's a joke to level and any complaints about it should be filled in the recycling bin.

Now then all your left with is what flavor of support you want. Well that's easy that's what specializations are for, so sorry if you want to ele support and give out alacrity that's not happening. You can however ele support and give out Prot, Regen, Might and pretty strong effects in the shape of Aura's.

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:

@zombyturtle.5980 said:Cant see anything positive about this patch from a pve perspective. Their new direction regarding boons in pve means instanced content will become even more restrictive and some elite specs wont be viable at all anymore.

Its not that I cant play the class I like best, although that sucks. The problem is instead of required classes being 4 ( 2 chrono, 1 druid, 1 bs) we are now going to see 5 or 6 mandatory classes to cover all the important boons. This reduces spots for people who dont want to play a supporting class and will kick some classes out the meta entirely (necro) since they cant give any desired boon.

It hasnt happened this patch, but with anets intentions to specialize boons, it will end up this way in a few balancing patches.

@TexZero.7910 said:

@zombyturtle.5980 said:Cant see anything positive about this patch from a pve perspective. Their new direction regarding boons in pve means instanced content will become even more restrictive and some elite specs wont be viable at all anymore.

Now only druid left to fix its boons been broken for to long

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:

@zombyturtle.5980 said:Cant see anything positive about this patch from a pve perspective. Their new direction regarding boons in pve means instanced content will become even more restrictive and some elite specs wont be viable at all anymore.

I don't like playing every class. I have them all but choose not to. I also don't like all of the specializations.

While they do have a good idea in general, they are terrible at implementing it.If a (pve) raid needs roles A, B, C and a D, they want us to be able to use classes X, Y, Z for A, and same for other roles. But the reality is class X is good, Y is meh and Z is so terrible you can't even consider playing it with sane mind. They are so far from equal it's disturbing.

So until now you needed dudu, 2mes and a bs, leaving 6 slots where multiple classes can come.

In time, new meta compo will arise from this patch and we will have mandatory dudu, 3fb, rene, mes, bs (just an example, and probably wrong) leaving you with only 3 slots where multiple classes can come, since problem with some classes performing way better than others caused by bad balance.

Which will lead to even less people doing raids, since not everyone likes to play dudu, fb, rene, mes or bs but can't get into any raid with their class since there are too few raids they are needed in.

That is what @zombyturtle.5980 is saying and sadly I think he is not far from truth.

@Miellyn.6847 said:I think this was actually intended as a holosmith PvP nerf. And in this context the change was good.Then why not just bring back the wall? 4fs

@TexZero.7910 said:

@zombyturtle.5980 said:Cant see anything positive about this patch from a pve perspective. Their new direction regarding boons in pve means instanced content will become even more restrictive and some elite specs wont be viable at all anymore.

@TexZero.7910 said:

@zombyturtle.5980 said:Cant see anything positive about this patch from a pve perspective. Their new direction regarding boons in pve means instanced content will become even more restrictive and some elite specs wont be viable at all anymore.

I need to correct this:Boons did not stop being meaningful parts of combat due to them being permanent.

Boons are permanent BECAUSE the price to incorporate them is justified via the power bonus they give to a party/squad. Thus group compositions will continue to strive to achieve permanent boons until:

The price for achieving permanent boons outpaces the benefits.

This imaginary world where boons will work as part time buffs will NEVER happen in the games current combat design. Even now raid guilds are working on achieving permanent boons for squads. This is evident in how required boons (fury, might, quickness, alacrity) are being worked in while less desired boons (the rest) are not.

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:

@zombyturtle.5980 said:Cant see anything positive about this patch from a pve perspective. Their new direction regarding boons in pve means instanced content will become even more restrictive and some elite specs wont be viable at all anymore.

Yes, the way balance currently is headed, this might be the end result.

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:

@zombyturtle.5980 said:Cant see anything positive about this patch from a pve perspective. Their new direction regarding boons in pve means instanced content will become even more restrictive and some elite specs wont be viable at all anymore.

Sure, it's not hard to have every class. How does this address the issue of people wanting to play their desired class/role though?

Justifying massive balance changes to certain classes with promise of other builds becoming available, then at the same time telling people to play something else because it is easy to level to 80 makes no sense. It was already possible to play support builds which were in demand. It was even possible to play support builds which were not in demand given a static or semi-static group (or experienced/relaxed PUG group). I don't see the benefit here.

@zombyturtle.5980 said:The problem is instead of required classes being 4 ( 2 chrono, 1 druid, 1 bs) we are now going to see 5 or 6 mandatory classes to cover all the important boons.

Nah, this is wrong. The only boons that are important enough or exclusive enough to demand a specific class be used are quickness and alacrity. Which chrono still covers.The only other mandatory boons are might and fury, and that's given out by a lot of different classes. Including druid and warrior.

Just look at the state of raids a few years ago. The only boons assumed to be permanent were quickness, might, fury, regen, and swiftness. And regen and swiftness were just because they're trivial to maintain.

@reikken.4961 said:

@"zombyturtle.5980" said:The problem is instead of required classes being 4 ( 2 chrono, 1 druid, 1 bs) we are now going to see 5 or 6 mandatory classes to cover all the important boons.

You are forgetting protection, and yes, especially w5, w6 are more balanced around having protection. Just take dhuum for example. Bombs exploding on max range without protection still hurt you a LOT, especially low hp dps like eles and thieves.

And while "alot" of other classes have SOME might, its neither 25 stacks nor 10man, basically forcing you to run druid if you dont want to add yet another mandatory - or two - roles to the squad.

Take ren/fb comp for example. You have to get REALLY creative to stack 25 might on fb. You can do it with scepter symbol... or empowering might trait. But the former excludes you from other VERY important weapon sets - like axe for pulls or mace for blocks or hammer for cc - really limiting your utility to unacceptable levels, and the later needs precision. Now, thanks to SoC changes, you ALSO need full harriers to reach 100% boon duration. Harrier has? Correct, no precision. For empowering might to give out enough might to get to 25, you have to have around 50% crit chance. Good luck with that.Now, that wouldnt be a problem, IF renegades might ability were 10 man. Newsflash - it isnt. So while you can cover 1 subgrp with all boons, the other misses around 10 stacks might. Bannerwarrior cant compensate that, his might is too short. Chrono could in the past but not anymore. And adding a druid just for might is pretty much the worst way to waste a slot. All of this means that you are limited to at least 5 mandatory slots now. 2x fb, 1x renegade, 1xbannerwarrior, and something like wh tempest, FE DE. And that doesnt even account for missing frostspirit and focus pulls. While you can forgo frostspirit, no focus pull means you need more cleave on some encounters. That in turn limits your DPS selection, which means even more rigid comps.

Did you enjoy playing niche dps builds once in a while? Well, tough. No room for that anymore.

@Yasi.9065 said:Did you enjoy playing niche dps builds once in a while? Well, tough. No room for that anymore.

This is why I don't play raids.