Jump to content
  • Sign Up

Deadeye thief still viable? WvW and PvP


Macuk.4789

Recommended Posts

Hi folks,This thread would be more of my personal view and what I am experiencing as a thief DE. I am playing the game for 4 months now and still learning.I was reading through the changes that came with the new patch and I gotta admit I am a bit disappointed. I was experimenting with S/D and D/P but found those builds fast paced, since I get overwhelmed in a duel because I still dont know fully what the class I am dueling can do to counter me and what I can counter them with, how big is their burst, whats their rotation, how much cooldowns they got on their skills etc.. I am using DE rifle and D/P for malicious backstab in WvW and I find this build beginner friendly. Still havent played PvP because I want to get to know the game better. Got into the rotation, got my berserker gear with scholar runes, ascended Valkyrie trinkets, ascended weapons and now I am wondering is DE thief still viable? Since DJ is a stealth attack it should not be blockable, you can't block an attack if you cant see it...The laser that is pointing before the bullet is fired, is making things easier to react so you can get out of range, also you can still evade DJ, use skills to reveal thief etc..
Now DJ can be blocked but can it be reflected back to me? If that is the case, my biggest advantage can now be my death...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Pretty sure you're not going to see any de attacking guardians, warriors, eles, engis, mesmers, rangers, necros nor heralds seeing how everyone BUT thief can generate boons and aegis. Leaving camp npcs and other thieves. Well until the camp npcs get reflect of course, they already have blocks and obstructed to protect them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Bern.9613 said:Pretty sure you're not going to see any de attacking guardians, warriors, eles, engis, mesmers, rangers, necros nor heralds seeing how everyone BUT thief can generate boons and aegis. Leaving camp npcs and other thieves. Well until the camp npcs get reflect of course, they already have blocks and obstructed to protect them.

Guardians, Warriors, Eles, Revenants, and especially necros are all matchups that still favor a Deadeye. You should not be losing to these professions 1v1 as a DE.

Also, DE can generate plenty of boons with M7, or trade for more frontloaded Quickness/Fury with BQoBK. Still a fair amount of useful ones with TotC.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Bern.9613 said:Pretty sure you're not going to see any de attacking guardians, warriors, eles, engis, mesmers, rangers, necros nor heralds seeing how everyone BUT thief can generate boons and aegis. Leaving camp npcs and other thieves. Well until the camp npcs get reflect of course, they already have blocks and obstructed to protect them.

Using rifle to force blocks then using S/P with absorption sigil to steal their boons still seems to work well. I'm running tanky though, assuming you're glassy you shouldn't have been engaging with DJ anyways, backstab has a much higher success rate with less counterplay.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said:The rifle has been dumpstered. But thats about it.

Losing unblockable on DJ is not preventing Rifle from performing well in WvW. Maybe your personal play style was affected, but that in no way means Rifle as a whole was "dumpstered." I'm still finding it quite effective, mainly utilizing the auto, Skirmisher's Shot, Double Tab, and Death's Retreat. Kneel and stationary skills are not at all required to win most of your engagements.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Turk.5460 said:

Also, DE can generate plenty of boons with M7, or trade for more frontloaded Quickness/Fury with BQoBK. Still a fair amount of useful ones with TotC.

If you're using M7 and get the boons, you're in a fight far too long. You get fury if you're running crit strikes. Better healing through quicker kills.

@Turk.5460 said:

Losing unblockable on DJ is not preventing Rifle from performing well in WvW. Maybe your personal play style was affected, but that in no way means Rifle as a whole was "dumpstered." I'm still finding it quite effective, mainly utilizing the auto, Skirmisher's Shot, Double Tab, and Death's Retreat. Kneel and stationary skills are not at all required to win most of your engagements.

Losing unblockable against guards, warriors, heralds, eles, engis, rangers, mesmers using their blocking and/or reflect skills gives them a reprieve to heal and turn on you or get away. Then there's the loss of 20% crit chance on dj and kneeling skills being replaced by 120 precision which translates to a 5.7% increase (according to wiki, 21 precision = 1% after 895), 11.4% if rifle equipped. Yes Anet, some of us can also do the math. So yea, "dumpstered" is pretty accurate.

@"Jugglemonkey.8741" said:

Using rifle to force blocks then using S/P with absorption sigil to steal their boons still seems to work well. I'm running tanky though, assuming you're glassy you shouldn't have been engaging with DJ anyways, backstab has a much higher success rate with less counterplay.

Then why are you running de if you're using s/p as your attack set? I'll run d/p as back up when solo to gank the odd backliner oblivious to my presence, sb with a group for stealth, poison fields and ranged multiple cleaves. And bs isn't as reliable as you make it out to be without the gap closer of steal, shadow step (often your only "time to get outta Dodge" skill) or infiltrator's signet, it never has been. And I'm certainly not going to be running around with 20k + hp annoying ppl by only being able to keep them in combat like the so many of the endless heals, pillow fighting builds we see in wvw now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Bern.9613 said:

Also, DE can generate plenty of boons with M7, or trade for more frontloaded Quickness/Fury with BQoBK. Still a fair amount of useful ones with TotC.

If you're using M7 and get the boons, you're in a fight far too long. You get fury if you're running crit strikes. Better healing through quicker kills.

in spvp or large scale combat it can be too long. in solo/small scale m7 is often better, because bad people you still kill with your frontloaded damage but you might need that high damage execute if they are a little better or if you want to snipe the opposing supporter.

@Bern.9613 said:

Losing unblockable on DJ is not preventing Rifle from performing well in WvW. Maybe your personal play style was affected, but that in no way means Rifle as a whole was "dumpstered." I'm still finding it quite effective, mainly utilizing the auto, Skirmisher's Shot, Double Tab, and Death's Retreat. Kneel and stationary skills are not at all required to win most of your engagements.

Losing unblockable against guards, warriors, heralds, eles, engis, rangers, mesmers
using their blocking and/or reflect skills gives them a reprieve to heal and turn on you or get away
. Then there's the loss of 20% crit chance on dj and kneeling skills being replaced by 120 precision which translates to a 5.7% increase (according to wiki, 21 precision = 1% after 895), 11.4% if rifle equipped. Yes Anet, some of us can also do the math. So yea, "dumpstered" is pretty accurate.

do i understand that correctly: you expect that its oke for you till kill anything with your frontloaded damage and they shouldnt have tools to avoid it?you have a rifle therefor range and stealth so you can kite them, you dont need to kill them with your frontloaded damage as your not as much pressed for time in WvW.yes blockable DJ was a nerf, it delays some kills, i still wish we would have some unblockable access on rifle outside of using an elite for 1 hit, but rifle deadeye is regardless of that nerf more than viable in WvW roaming.critchance with rifle using silent scope is indeed 11,4% , but that is also while standing not just kneeling. i dont know about you but i find kneeling a waste of time unless i NEED snipers cover (against SB/holo its pretty usefull) so for me thats mostly a buff. also makes it better to adjust your equipment, than having 20% critchance difference depending on if you stand or kneel.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@MUDse.7623 said:

do i understand that correctly: you expect that its oke for you till kill anything with your frontloaded damage and they shouldnt have tools to avoid it?

Contrary to the youtube vids you've been watching, not every dj is a 1 shot. And you should read what I said about unblockable dj. Unless I miss my intent, it was in reference to finishing off the fight not opening it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Bern.9613 said:

do i understand that correctly: you expect that its oke for you till kill anything with your frontloaded damage and they shouldnt have tools to avoid it?

Contrary to the youtube vids you've been watching, not every dj is a 1 shot. And you should read what I said about unblockable dj. Unless I miss my intent, it was in reference to finishing off the fight not opening it.

so what? you finish it a little later.contrary to you i do not need to watch youtube videos and am killing people left and right just fine on my deadeye with my rifle and DJ, ty.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Bern.9613 said:

@"Turk.5460" said:Losing unblockable on DJ is not preventing Rifle from performing well in WvW. Maybe your personal play style was affected, but that in no way means Rifle as a whole was "dumpstered." I'm still finding it quite effective, mainly utilizing the auto, Skirmisher's Shot, Double Tab, and Death's Retreat. Kneel and stationary skills are not at all required to win most of your engagements.

Losing unblockable against guards, warriors, heralds, eles, engis, rangers, mesmers using their blocking and/or reflect skills gives them a reprieve to heal and turn on you or get away. Then there's the loss of 20% crit chance on dj and kneeling skills being replaced by 120 precision which translates to a 5.7% increase (according to wiki, 21 precision = 1% after 895), 11.4% if rifle equipped. Yes Anet, some of us can also do the math. So yea, "dumpstered" is pretty accurate.

You seem to have missed the part where I said that Kneel skills are not required to win most of your engagements. That was a catered response to you - they're not required to win any engagements for most practiced DEs. See below.

@Bern.9613 said:

@"Jugglemonkey.8741" said:

Using rifle to force blocks then using S/P with absorption sigil to steal their boons still seems to work well. I'm running tanky though, assuming you're glassy you shouldn't have been engaging with DJ anyways, backstab has a much higher success rate with less counterplay.

Then why are you running de if you're using s/p as your attack set?

Because effective builds exist outside of metabattle. And S/P probably isn't even Juggle's main set for his build. It probably shares equal time with Rifle. Weapon swapping, I know, ridiculous idea, right? Here's a clip showing how my S/P performs with bursty stats against an anonymous player. I assure you the damage is not that far behind with safer stats and durability runes, too...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Bern.9613 said:

@"Jugglemonkey.8741" said:

Using rifle to force blocks then using S/P with absorption sigil to steal their boons still seems to work well. I'm running tanky though, assuming you're glassy you shouldn't have been engaging with DJ anyways, backstab has a much higher success rate with less counterplay.

Then why are you running de if you're using s/p as your attack set? I'll run d/p as back up when solo to gank the odd backliner oblivious to my presence, sb with a group for stealth, poison fields and ranged multiple cleaves. And bs isn't as reliable as you make it out to be without the gap closer of steal, shadow step (often your only "time to get outta Dodge" skill) or infiltrator's signet, it never has been. And I'm certainly not going to be running around with 20k + hp annoying ppl by only being able to keep them in combat like the so many of the endless heals, pillow fighting builds we see in wvw now.

Because I enjoy rifle, having the option of range is very beneficial vs certain specs especially when outnumbered, and honestly deadeye gives me more useful stuff than daredevil does, like large amounts of quickness and stealth. I don't use S/P or rifle at all vs some opponents, different fights need different tools.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...