Shackling Wave changes, Poll. Opinions and discussions.

I think they have gone too far with this nerf, there skills faster time in other professions with less time to cast and very strong, so I after try in various scenarios (pvp mostly) decided to use the ax again, since it is almost impossible to hit the enemies in pvp even playing with Brutality. How do you think it would be a correct way to balance it?

I'm all for big skills having clear tells but a 2.25 power multiplier is legitimately weak for a 1 second cast. Most damage skills at that cast time are around a 3.0 multiplier or have significant built in utility or a much shorter cooldown with no additional energy cost or some combination of the above. Remember when arcdivider got about .25 seconds added to its cast time and berserker died? To early to say now but history does repeat itself sometimes.

omg yes bring back the block.can you cast cancel it now? seems like that would be useful.

It seems quite a bit easier to react to now. I would rather they shave the delay/cast to a point where it's still reactable if you're looking out for it, but you're punished for not looking out for it. I think they went a tad too far with this one - just a little!

Edit: Quickness makes everything more difficult to balance, unfortunately. A cast time/delay that's 'appropriate' without quickness can end up godawful with quickness. A cast time that's a little too long can end up perfectly fine with quickness - but only if there actually is quickness, which has its own limitations on rev. Not quite sure how to go about that.

The problem was the damage, not the cast time... 1s cast time make the skill feel extremely clunky.

@ArthurDent.9538 said:I'm all for big skills having clear tells but a 2.25 power multiplier is legitimately weak for a 1 second cast. Most damage skills at that cast time are around a 3.0 multiplier or have significant built in utility or a much shorter cooldown with no additional energy cost or some combination of the above.

eh? what kinds of damage skills are you referring to? 2.25 is pretty much top end of the damage. What skills have 3.0 or are faster or whatever? Vault, backstab, arc divider, jump shot are all about 2.25. Only things I can think of at 3.0 are extremely slow and gated like killshot and prime light beam.

To be honest, cast time is not a problem at all for me.As anecdotal as it sounds, I've noticed people dodging as if they are still reacting to the original cast time and their premature dodge gets them hit by the wave.

Second, learn to stow weapons of they dodge during your attack.( Also baiting out dodges without wasting an attack is 100x easier now)

Third, it makes it easier to control the direction of your wave. If an enemy who is in front of you ends up behind you, you have a better chance now to be able to turn your camera and still land your attack.

Maybe increase the damage a little bit more, but I personally feel cast time is fine.

Only thing I disagree with is this cast time is not split between pvp and pve.

@Keyba.9570 said:Only thing I disagree with is this cast time is not split between pvp and pve.

split cast times is kinda bad. just increase the damage in pve

@reikken.4961 said:

@ArthurDent.9538 said:I'm all for big skills having clear tells but a 2.25 power multiplier is legitimately weak for a 1 second cast. Most damage skills at that cast time are around a 3.0 multiplier or have significant built in utility or a much shorter cooldown with no additional energy cost or some combination of the above.

Whirling wrath, firegrab, quantum strike, sub 50 final thrust, eviscerate are all around .75 sec cast times and around 3.0 multiplier or more. After that there really aren't alot of damage focused skills with 1 sec cast or more unless you count channels like unload. There's like gravedigger, killshot, churning earth, which are all at 3.0 and spinal shiversagainst 3 boons is at 2.625 with a 1 second cast. After that I can't think of any non channeled damage focused skills with 1 sec cast or more unless I start naming a bunch of staff ele skills but that is staff ele for you. 1 second cast time is just really slow for this game.

Why be so selfish & think about your own class for poll's ? Why not make a poll for everything that was change for all classes across the board?Ah yeah right!

Reduce damage in pvp/wvw by 20% or 25% on initial hit, remove one additional hit, keep the gold wind-up animation, revert the cast time.

A lot of us wanted offhand sword nerfed numbers-wise not usability wise.

@Vieux P.1238 said:Why be so selfish & think about your own class for poll's ? Why not make a poll for everything that was change for all classes across the board?Ah yeah right!

I feel like you feel angry, it was not my intention. I do this survey because I am Rev main and I am a little tired of the extremes, for better or for worse, in a class that I have played 8000 games I think I can comment on what I think is right or wrong, however in another profession I do not I can because I do not know her ... If you are main X and you care about the quality of life of your profession, please feel free to create the most appropriate post to your problem :)

@rev in love.8439 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:Why be so selfish & think about your own class for poll's ? Why not make a poll for everything that was change for all classes across the board?Ah yeah right!

Hey, i'm no more angry this last patch then you are i guess. Everybody has a main. I don't understand why Your main (Rev) should have more special attention then any other class that's been gutted this last patch. What makes you special over the rest?

Bringing back block would be the best way to make the skill more easily evaded without actually nerfing a class that just barely manages to be in the meta.

If Duelists prep was back and had at least a 1/4 second animation lock on it before you could chain it to shackling wave, it would fix so many problems with Rev not just with how sword offhand works but with the balance of the class in general being too reliant on team support.

So I guess this thread means that Ice Spike and Eruption should have a 5.0 power modifier. And Lightning Surge should get buffed to a 3.0 modifier. Alternatively, why not just git gud?

I’m ok with the nerf.

It seems like if they put rev on equal footing the class gets absurdly cried about because the best players in the game (like myself) gravitate towards rev.

It’s much better than when off hand sword damage was not there at all and Rev just simply did not have the opportunity to ever win because the skills themselves just not were capable of doing necessary damage to win even if you landed all skillsz

Anybody semi decent at rev remember season 5 through season 10 when NON BUNKERS could heal through rev damage if they use dodges right?

At least we’re not at that point lmfao. I still have a hard time believing that even happened.

Honestly I thought it'd be cool if they made the shiro shadowstep instant. So like thief can do flanking strike/steal combo... you could do shackling/shiro gap closer combo to land this if they kite. Or initiate with it. I'm sure you could think of all sorts of other need combo's with that as well.

@Duckota.4769 said:Honestly I thought it'd be cool if they made the shiro shadowstep instant. So like thief can do flanking strike/steal combo... you could do shackling/shiro gap closer combo to land this if they kite. Or initiate with it. I'm sure you could think of all sorts of other need combo's with that as well.

That would be a tad too strong due to how much stuff is already loaded into the gap closer.

Whirling wrath, firegrab, quantum strike, sub 50 final thrust, eviscerate are all around .75 sec cast times and around 3.0 multiplier or more. After that there really aren't alot of damage focused skills with 1 sec cast or more unless you count channels like unload. There's like gravedigger, killshot, churning earth, which are all at 3.0 and spinal shivers

Whirling wrath is 0.75 before it starts doing damage, then you have to be inside the enemy's hitbox for X seconds after that to actually land the damage. The only way to actually fully land WW on a moving enemy is with CC + quickness. Fire grab is short range and requires enemy to be burning first. Quantum strike short range. Final thrust short range and <50% requirement. Eviscerate has a huge and obvious tell and brings you into melee range. Shackling wave is by far the easiest one to land as it has a large 450 range cone-cleave effect with minimal tell (at least until now), making it a lot easier to land from safe non-melee range against a moving target. Plus it has the bonus of being 6 strikes which easily cuts through aegis, blind, arcane shield, shield of wrath etc, and rev as a class maintains 25 might/fury permanently which I don't think any of the other classes mentioned get.

That said 1s is pretty long, all we needed was an obvious tell.

@Duckota.4769 said:Honestly I thought it'd be cool if they made the shiro shadowstep instant. So like thief can do flanking strike/steal combo... you could do shackling/shiro gap closer combo to land this if they kite. Or initiate with it. I'm sure you could think of all sorts of other need combo's with that as well.

Nah that's just too good - I main a rev but I'd call for a nerf if that was to implemented. We can already chain Phase into Deathstrike from range 1800.

I feel like 1s of cast time is too long, and it's a bit too much when coupled with the animation. I'd be fine with reducing damage a bit and keeping the animation, but reducing the cast time.

@"ventusthunder.5067" said:Reduce damage in pvp/wvw by 20% or 25% on initial hit, remove one additional hit, keep the gold wind-up animation, revert the cast time.

A lot of us wanted offhand sword nerfed numbers-wise not usability wise.

If you rip half of revs damage what does the class have left? If damage on rev should be nerfed it should either get more mobility or sustain. The thing about revenant is you either go full damage or full "tank". It's not like you can sustain and do big damage in the same battle like warrior, holosmith or soulbeast.

I often see people crying about revs damage to be too high but they never tried out the class themselves. When a revenant misses its burst he becomes a sitting duck. Revenant needs a port to get out of sticky situation imo, The dodge skill on shiro should become a 40s port instead

@Snellibee.2761 said:

@"ventusthunder.5067" said:Reduce damage in pvp/wvw by 20% or 25% on initial hit, remove one additional hit, keep the gold wind-up animation, revert the cast time.

A lot of us wanted offhand sword nerfed numbers-wise not usability wise.

I have been a revenant main since early 2016 and have played essentially every build the class has to offer. And I must tell you, if you remove riposting shadows Shiro is going to be actual trash. In addition, a 40 second cooldown on a utility skill won't fly with the philosophy of revenant design anyway- I think it would be a very poor design decision.

*note: the rest of this applies to the meta Shiro/Glint herald build only.

I also wasn't aware that reducing damage by 20% and removal of one of the additional hits for a total of around 30% damage on a single offhand skill constitutes ripping half of rev's damage. If anything, your thought that this nerfs rev's damage by half shows that the damage the class can provide is far too focused in a single weapon set, which is what a lot of revenant mains have been complaining about.

I have been advocating for improved boon duration and boon-focused traits as well as improvements to axe and shield offhands. The class doesn't need more mobility, Shiro offers enough evasiveness and mobility. It needs sustain and boon-centric options to match the original philosophy of the class. Because the class is well on its way to being a heavy armored thief and I believe your suggestion would just move it even closer to that.

@"ventusthunder.5067" said:

I have been advocating for improved boon duration and boon-focused traits as well as improvements to axe and shield offhands. The class doesn't need more mobility, Shiro offers enough evasiveness and mobility. It needs sustain and boon-centric options to match the original philosophy of the class. Because the class is well on its way to being a heavy armored thief and I believe your suggestion would just move it even closer to that.

No is not. Glint's "F" skills are trash and the Herald spec is no longer a boon bot. Remember when they said that the off hand sword was having a identity crisis? And they ditched the block for no reason, providing instead a burst which now is finally crap? Well, they ditched boon duration from Herald so now has it own "identity crisis" as a whole. Let the Herald to keep being the same unchanged PvP build from 3 years ago: the same spec and weapons and legends and traits for 36 months in a row. We are a classic, be proud of it.

Instructions unclear.Where is the "Reduce damage and leave cast time at 1s"-option?

@"Zenix.6198" said:Instructions unclear.Where is the "Reduce damage and leave cast time at 1s"-option?

Only bronze players need such a changeYou can't dodge a 1s cast skill? Don't play pvp