A Note on Future Boon Direction — Guild Wars 2 Forums

A Note on Future Boon Direction

Greetings Tyrians!

We are aware that the previous update to Runes and Sigils, coupled with the balance updates released this week, created a situation where boon duration has become a more highly-valued resource.

As you can see in the December 11 release notes, we’re moving toward a world where various professions are specialized at offering different boons and not all boons can (or should!) be provided by a single profession.

Toward that end, we wanted to let you know that we’re looking at new attribute combinations for the coming year to offer you better options. You may want to watch for those updates before making significant changes to your gear.

Merry Wintersday!

~GW2 Systems Team



  • Aktium.9506Aktium.9506 Member ✭✭✭

    sounds good man

  • Xstein.2187Xstein.2187 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 12, 2018

    Just under curiosity in regards to the whole boon directions, what was the thought process behind the specific changes to signet of inspiration instead of simply lowering down the number of boons it affects in combination with lowering the duration if necessary?

  • Could you say when are those attribute combos coming? If it's soon enough to say not to rush regearing...why wasn't this shipped with the balance patch?

  • Etterwyn.5263Etterwyn.5263 Member ✭✭✭

    I've thought along these lines. HOT and POF created too much overlap. some is fine, such as each class should at least be able to give itself might and quickness, but make others more exclusive, and control the amount of sharing.

    Same applies to conditions. Confusion is already mostly exclusive to Mesmers, but beyond that there's just a ton of overlap. I mean we've got Necros burning and Guardians bleeding, all of a sudden. Class discrimination is compounded by certain classes that can do too much (boons or conditions) all by themselves.

    WvW™ - where you find more Red Rings of Death than an Xbox repair facility.

  • The result is no more optional slots for dps classes because you need them all in specific rolls now which is far far worse what we had before all the work the balance them did in months n losing the meta for more class diversity is now thrown out of the window can anyone understand that ?

  • Miatela.5047Miatela.5047 Member ✭✭✭

    This is nice and I am looking forward to the possibility of Seeker gear for my silly Might share Deadeye build, but you'll see no real change to raid compositions requiring double Chronomancer until you realise the problem is that there is no alternative that for quickness and alacrity together in the one profession. I think you need to really consider why you feel you need to stick with that design when it has resulted in 3+ years of 20% of a raid being Chronomancer (if you want to have any hope of reasonable kill times), resulted in memes such as chronojail and is slowly making raids unenjoyable for people that have been here since W1 release.

    I really hope you will consider elites as we move into LS5 that can offer alacrity and quickness. It doesn't need to be as good as Chronomancer - same as any potential changes to Renegade or Firebrand - but PvE is crying out for an alternative. A similar situation is present with Druid and Warrior to a less degree due to their unique buffs.

    New stat combinations will be nice, but you need much larger structural changes if you want to have a game with a semblance of support balance in instanced PvE.

  • Rauderi.8706Rauderi.8706 Member ✭✭✭✭

    New attribute combos? I've got my fingers crossed for a few:

    Power/Precision/HealPow/Concentration (possibly Heal/Conc major?)
    The real +All Stats! Just spread out Celestial's points to fill in Expertise and Concentration.

    Basically, I see players craving those support stats (healing/concentration) while keeping their damage stats and not getting mired in Tough/Vitality.

    Of course, returning boon duration/Concentration to the appropriate warrior trait line would also be grand, thx.

    Many alts! Handle it!

    "A condescending answer might as well not be an answer at all."
    -Eloc Freidon.5692

  • Tzarakiel.7490Tzarakiel.7490 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 12, 2018

    In my opinion a support build needs permanent uptime on at least 2 offensive boons, 3 defensive boons, and a unique effect to be good enough. If anet's plan is to have the classes use only 1 or 2 boons each they will kill off most support builds and make almost all boon duration bonuses useless. Max uptime on 1 or 2 boons is not worth enough to lose an offensive stat.

    PvP? What's that? Never heard of it.

  • TheGrimm.5624TheGrimm.5624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Thank you for the heads up. That does help quite a bit and cuts down on re-gearing cost. Cheers!

    Envy the Madman his musing when Death comes to make fools of us all.
    De Mortuis Nil Nisi Bonum.
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  • @Lascax.2163 said:
    New equip stats will not fix that much.

    The glaring problem is that this patch is incomplete at the cost of having us waiting a month before playing properly or worse regearing again.
    Also, this boon distribution will most probably make even more slots mandatory in the meta than before, but we don't know so let's have fun finding a new meta for just 3-5 weeks.

    Why aren't the wells applied on 10 people?
    Why aren't the wells larger to avoid clunky movement?
    Why can't SoI just share Qck/Alacrity and stays like now for the rest of boons?

    This patch was clearly done with the Episode release in mind, but now that is postponed after holidays ( justifiably, ANet Staff need to take this break ), this will leave us with a troubled and clunky gameplay unnecessarily during a period where most people have free time.
    All of this sums up as a clear lack of proper update planning.

    If we talk about this its also really bad that 3 weeks ago we had the other sigil and rune update which lead to complete change of the stats which the chrono use this had cost them a lot of gold . The result every our 5 raid /t4 fractal main chrono players wants to quit or stopping playing support chrono.

    I'm also not really happy about this I mostly player weaver sometimes tempest. Basically the update before the sigil and rune update(which increase cost) also nerfed my class and the one before that was an episode update which was full of bugs not to mentioned I had a hard time to get into weaver when it came out and I was overjoyed when sc made a built public with scepter and horn (which was nerfed with 11.12 patch). I never could get the 100% dps I wanted out of it but this is over anyway.

    On top of it is like you said the game play as weaver is clunky like hell now ( +dps lose) . I also will reduce my time in this game now I had the feeling it is too much anyway in the last 6 months.

  • Blocki.4931Blocki.4931 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Meriva.4173 said:
    Wondering what kinda of boons necro's have to share :p

    Is barrier and great utility not enough?

    Smugly chuckling forever.
    My sentence doesn't make sense? Well, I probably forgot to write half of it before posting.

  • How about a way chrono can be sure to maximize the SoI use? Before i could just look at my bar and my party's location and know 100% that i was giving them boons. Now i have no idea if they have been corrupted, out of range of my wells, or if i just messed something up. A skill that doesnt even provide the user with any sort of easy to read success/fail feedback is horrible design.

  • How about 1 boon per class

  • @Zephyr.8015 said:
    New stat combos won't fix that fact you killed an elite spec.

    They saved all other specs now firebrand renegade can shine

  • @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:
    Toward that end, we wanted to let you know that we’re looking at new attribute combinations for the coming year to offer you better options. You may want to watch for those updates before making significant changes to your gear.

    Question: Will these new attributes be solely obtainable via Season 4 and/or Season 5, or will they become available to a wider audience?

    Also, wouldn't this mean some roles cutting out dps to share their boons if the solution is solely new attribute combinations? Wouldn't it, instead, be more prudent to make other professions viable to playing a support role, so its less about gear and more about 'flavor of the support'? -shrug- I'm not a number cruncher so I dunno.

    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.

  • @Limodriver.4106 said:
    WHAT BOON DOES thief provide? lol

    Every exept alacrity on some bosses

  • @Meriva.4173 said:
    Wondering what kinda of boons necro's have to share :p

    Nekro boon is known as barrier and dead enemies

  • Condi Damage (Major) / Expertise(Minor) / Conc(Minor) - Would be nice for Condi Chrono / Quickness FB to keep up damage while also providing boons. Closest to this currently is Seraph - Prec (Major) / Condi Damage (Major) / Conc (Minor) / Healing Power (Minor). This would also help niche builds such as Condi Boon Thief on specific raid bosses get some much needed boon duration from Detonate Plasma.

    Power (Major) / Ferocity (Major) - Just the two stats, there are a few classes that can get Crit % via traits and something like this would allow those classes to utilise traits to increase damage at the sacrifice of a more rigid build

    Power (Major) / Prec (Minor) / Conc (Minor) - Same as above but for power classes to be able to increase boon duration at the cost of Crit Damage

    Condi Damage (Major) / Healing Power ( Minor) / Conc (Minor) - Condi Version of Harriers

    These are some Stat combinations that I feel could give certain classes a much needed boost in Raid and Fractals while also not having dead stats to get a different combination

  • Necodominus.6203Necodominus.6203 Member ✭✭
    edited December 12, 2018

    How about apologizing for trashing warriors again for the second patch in a row. Adjusting something that was relatively balanced in scaled warfare to appease small scale applications. Because they are too dumb to NOT hit the person in full counter. So they cry that its OP. Ugg. You guys made this change without considering the ramifications to your WvW players. Warriors since launch have had a tentative role in scale WvW fights and finally have a niche carved out for them. I can admit there were some unbalances throughout the process. But at this rate it is barely even viable. @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048

  • morrolan.9608morrolan.9608 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 12, 2018

    In the past maybe around HOT didn't different classes provide different boons and that proved unworkable probably because some boons are better than others so some classes again become required picks. Not to mention the fact that this means the latest balance patch is essentially incomplete and something the high end players across all modes are going to have to deal with for probably over a month?

  • Aktium.9506Aktium.9506 Member ✭✭✭

    @Meriva.4173 said:
    Wondering what kinda of boons necro's have to share :p

    you can give perma 25 might really easy just by slotting aristocracy runes and using toxic maintenance oil then you just use torch 5 and bip

    its just pointless when druid does it better and in a wider area

  • Apokriphos.7042Apokriphos.7042 Member ✭✭
    edited December 12, 2018

    @Blocki.4931 said:

    @Meriva.4173 said:
    Wondering what kinda of boons necro's have to share :p

    Is barrier and great utility not enough?

    Only scourge gets barrier.

    What about reaper or core necro, which have always been terrible in instanced content.

    With the new nerf to crit damage procs, necro max dps has fallen below 29k. Without something significant, Anet might as well delete the class, and save people the trouble investing in one.

  • Avelorelle.8619Avelorelle.8619 Member ✭✭
    edited December 13, 2018

    we’re moving toward a world where various professions are specialized at offering different boons and not all boons can (or should!) be provided by a single profession

    It's good you're trying to distribute boons between professions... BUT I have some err... thoughts, hope these will be useful.
    I personally like playing support classes, and I do want to play boon support role, I also like being a healer. What I don't like is playing something mixed, when I have to do dps, do a little heal here, a litle buff there, and maybe some CC and etc... So I'm asking you, pleeeeease don't make everyone a jack-of-all-trades, that will ruin everything!

    Please try to think about people playing those classes. There are players like me who like being support, they like to feel needed and wanted in a group. And they choose (almost always) the classes that let them do it (like Druid for its heal, Guardian for its buffs, Mesmer for buffs/portals, etc). And that's the classes you'd want to make support oriented (I'm pretty sure I'm not reinventing the wheel here, I bet you know this). Not every class should be healing/buffing just because class mechanics will let it do so. As not every class should be dps oriented. This works for DPS classes too. By the way, when DPS-type people are forced to buff or heal they see it as a nuisance and additional work they don't like. This brings us to second point...

    Maybe pick 3-4 classes that will have, like, really good and balanced support specializations (I mean balance between the support classes).
    Example: a class that has the strongest healing skills should get less buffs/CC. Class with good buffs gets less heals/CC. Class with good CC gets less heals/buffs. This distribution I see as fair one, where every class has its strong and weak sides and their roles don't overlap.

    And maybe make a public poll on which classes/specs people see as support? Won't harm for sure

  • crazyhusky.2985crazyhusky.2985 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 12, 2018

    @Zlater.6789 said:
    Can you throw us a bone and chuck us a free stat reselect by any chance? The last year or so has been very rough on support players, especially chrono players. Atm the only way a person can reasonably play support is with legendary gear, which I feel is pushing the gw2 game philosophy a bit far. Especially because right now its like, any random patch could totally make your favourite suppport professiom obselete and ruin the investment we've made into that profession.

    I agree, I spend a bit of time recently getting stuff to build a support chrono and you guys broke chrono.
    Now half my equipement is pretty much useless on it now.

  • Nepster.4275Nepster.4275 Member ✭✭✭

    Chrono(as other people said, any class) should not upkeep all boons for the full duration of a fight, BUT making classes upkeep only one or two kinds of boons will not solve the problems, chronos never wanted(or atleast this is how i see it) to upkeep all the boons in the game, back in the time with swiftness quick and alac+ some might was good, then people did not get carried by mesmer as they did when it shared every boon. Completly taking all the boon generation from mesmer is a bad idea, because the whole theme of the spec was designed around boons, so only 2 kind of boons doesnt sound that good, as lets say 4 or even 5. Changing chaos traitline and giving back mesmers the normal fuction of SoI would solve the issue of upkeeping 25 million kinds of boons whiel giving them the chance to do what they used to do.
    -- This whole text is IMO --

  • Main heals, secondary conc/vit would be amazing for supports. Some way to get boon duration without accumulating toughness or wasting on dps stats.

  • OriOri.8724OriOri.8724 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 13, 2018

    Since you brought up boon direction, I think its time to just do a small boon rework on resistance

    Resistance just does far too many things, and is far too powerful as a single boon. There's counterplay to resistance, absolutely, but the core mechanics of the boon are just broken. It simultaneously gives immunity to damage from all conditions, while also ignoring all soft CC from conditions, while also preventing all secondary effects from conditions (notably blind making one attack miss, poison decreasing your ability to heal, increased skill CD from chilled, slower attack speed from slow, weakness and vulnerability, taunt). All in all, Resistance, even though its a single boon, performs 3 wildly different roles, that are all very powerful individually. Its, quite simply a broken mechanic. Some of those roles need to be split off from resistance, possibly into a new boon. I see a couple viable options to bring this mechanic in line:

    • Have Resistance ignore all damage from conditions (and potentially also control effects), but no longer ignore the "secondary" effects of conditions. It still remains a very powerful boon, especially against condi builds without a lot of boon strip or corrupt, but at the same time doesn't completely invalidate them as they can still use poison/blind/immobility and it have an effect etc....
    • Have Resistance only ignore a % of the damage from conditions, without touching any of its other properties. Again, still extremely powerful boon, but the mechanic itself would be brought in line
    • Split Resistance into 2 boons. One ignores all secondary effects from conditions along with soft CC, and the other boon would only ignore the damage from conditions. The full effect are kept in game, but by splitting it into 2 boons, it allows you guys (ANet) to better balance skills that grant resistance as to whether their goal is to prevent damage from condis, prevent secondary effects from condis, or maybe a bit of both.

    Other than that, just a general tuning down of how spammy boons and condis have gotten would be great to see, even though I'm sure it will never happen at this point.

    Eyyyy I unlocked signatures

  • Xstein.2187Xstein.2187 Member ✭✭✭

    @Tsukasu.2705 said:
    While I appreciate the increased communication, ANet's stated goal and stated plan of action are in direct conflict.

    Stated Goal: "a world where various professions are specialized at offering different boons and not all boons can (or should!) be provided by a single profession."
    Stated Solution: "new attribute combinations for the coming year to offer you better options"

    Currently, there is only 1 attribute that directly affects boons.... Concentration.
    Concentration just happens to affect ALL of a players outgoing boons, not just "specialized ones".

    Your stated goal is to move away from stacking boon application duties on a few players, but your solution is to offer them more ways to get a stat that does the exact thing you are trying to stop?

    If you are planning to change how concentration works or to add in a new boon related stat entirely that would be a whole different discussion, and this post doesn't make it sound like this is the case at all.

    Wouldn't a better solution be to use Traits, Skills, Runes, or Sigils to accomplish this change? These solutions are MUCH lower cost and impact on your player base, and actually stand a chance at creating your desired outcome.

    Confusion aside, thanks for the heads up.

    Wow, this comment is packed full of very useful advise
    (except the traits, skills, runes, sigils, etc. would have to go above the standard concentration stats themselves in terms of complexity).

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